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safely and naturally. and it's odor free. i'm taking charge of my cholesterol with garlique. it has been a big night, however you look at it, and they're still more to come, with that in mind, i will hand it over to don lemon. >> this is don lemon tonight. and we have two big stories to tell you about. president joe biden in a major primetime speech, did you see it? saying he's battling for the soul of america. that is the former president is battling americas institutions in court. we just heard from president biden speaking in philadelphia in a fiery 24-minute speech, calling out donald trump by name and warning that what he calls maga republicans are a threat to america, while making it clear that when he says maga republicans, he does not mean all republicans. >> too much of what is happening in our country today is not normal.

donald trump and the maga republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic. i want to be very clear -- very clear up front. not every republican, not even a majority of republicans, are maga republicans. not every republican embraces their extreme ideology. i know because i have been able to work with these mainstream republicans. but there is no question that the republican party today is dominated, driven and intimidated by donald trump and the maga republicans. that is a threat to this country. >> so, also, this is really important, the president going on to warn election deniers are gearing up for the next time. >> michael republicans do not respect the constitution.

they do not believe in the rule of law. they did not recognize the will of the people. they refuse to accept the results of a free and fair election, and they're working right now, as they speak, in state after state after state to give power to decide elections in america to partisans and cronies, power empower election deniers to undermine democracy itself. >> obviously, we have a lot more to come on all of this. but then there is team trump, fighting the justice department in court today over the fbi -- over that search of mar-a-lago that netted 32 boxes of material, including more than 100 classified documents. the judge has not ruled yet on trump's plea for a special master, though it could come at anytime now. but this line from the hearing was really stunning. one of the former president's lawyers actually comparing the battle over classified documents to a fight over, his words, an overdue library book.

i just want you to think about that for a minute, the cynicism of that. the fbi found multiple documents marked top secret, some with markings indicating the material came from human sources like spies or informants, and he's comparing them to overdue library books. i don't know about you, but i never heard of any overdue library book putting our national security in danger or risking the lives of human sources. the cynicism -- and by the way, when you compare the classified documents to overdue library books, aren't you admitting that he should've given them back? isn't that implied in that? but none of this comes close to answer the big question here, why did the former president go through so much trouble to take so many documents and keep them under wraps? and now with his legal team doing battle, trump's claims today that he is financially supporting some january 6th defendants. watch this. >> i met with them and i'm

financially supporting people who are incredible. they were in my office two days ago. it's very much on my mind. it's a disgrace what they have done to them. if i decide to run and i win, i will be looking very, very strongly at pardons. >> he is saying it right at lab, considering pardons, considering pardons -- giving money to january 6th defendants. we don't know if that is true. we don't know exactly who or how much money. but one thing we do know for sure is, you can't call yourself the party of law and order if your leader says he is financially supporting people charged with participating in a riot. right? if he takes classified documents, and he won't get them back, that's certainly not the law. or lawful or orderly -- i want to bring in cnn's chief white house correspondent kaitlan collins, political commentator scott jennings. good evening to both of you. thank you for joining. it's a big night, kaitlan

collins, let's start with you. you have been talking to sources that the white house. how are they feeling by the president be senate? >> i think the reaction coming out of the white house -- is pushing back on was that this was a purely political. speech -- drawing a distinction between the gop at large and republicans who have been stoked on by the former president and have become election deniers and what not. they have been making that distinction in the aftermath of the speech. but when you look at the speech, it did have a political bands to it. he was making it clear that he thinks that these republicans should not be elected into office. he was talking about come november, that he wants voters to go to the polls and reject these republicans, reject this extremism, as he framed it. one thing about the speech is, they have been thinking about doing this for a while. this is something that we are told by sources that president biden wanted to do since earlier this summer. it's notable that they picked this timing, because they said it was not a speech about trump. he did name drop him a lot, which is notable for biden, someone who often chose not to name trump.

we are not that far from the midterm elections, we have a few weeks to go, and they really wanted to make it a referendum in that sense, not just in the things that voters have been prioritizing but also in a sense of what they believe he's on the ballot, which biden said tonight, is democracy. >> that is the timing, that is why now he's giving this? >> going back to the part about trump, you cannot ignore the fact that trump is back in the headlines, that what you just talked about their -- trump's attorneys are in court today talking about this investigation, the january 6th defendants are also making multiple court appearances. >> they feel that they are being overshadowed by trump and in the news so much and -- that their message is not gonna do because of that? >> i think they think it helps fuel their message, that they feel the political headwinds are in their favor right now with the legislative victories that they have had. they are using this moment as well with the trump stuff because they've always felt like that dynamic, the contrast, between trump and biden is most effective. >> listen, we are trying to get

the former governor, ed lindell, to join us. we having some technical difficulties. we will -- very big day. -- and we want to hear what ed lindell has to say. but i want to -- get your reaction and here it is. >> maga forces are determined to -- backwards to an america where there is no right to choose. no right to privacy. no right to contraception, no right to marry who you love. they promote authoritarian leaders, and they fan the flames of political violence. -- threat to our personal rights, to the pursuit of justice, to the rule of law, to the very soul of this country. they look at the mob that stormed the united states capitol on january 6th brutally attacking law enforcement, not as insurrectionists who placed a dagger at the throat of our

democracy, but they look at them as patriots, and they see their maga failure to stop a peaceful transfer of power after the 2020 election, as preparation for the 2022 and 2024 elections. they tried everything last time to nullify the votes of 81 million people. >> scott, did i say the governor of pennsylvania -- or did i say [inaudible] >> i don't remember either. >> but he was the governor of pennsylvania. >> a still live in philadelphia -- he made it clear that he's talking about not all republicans but maga republicans. would you think members of your party heard? >> about half of the republicans consider themselves to be -- trump supporters and about half considered himself to be party type republicans first. that is a lot of people, millions of people east talking about. he's pretty stark language about. for him to say, with all due respect to the white house staffers who color up and spin these things --

for him to say it's not a political speech, when he literally ended by saying, vote, vote, vote -- clearly it was a political speech. >> he ended by saying democracy. >> he said vote, vote, vote and then he said democracy. this is about the midterms, maybe, but i heard a lot of 2024 fanatics here. we had a number of polls come out in the last few weeks about his standing in the democratic party. usa today this week say 56% of democrats say they don't want him to run. cnn's poll said 75%. -- only thing missing was a balloon drop. >> why is it but it was a political speech, he is a democrat. >> it was billed as a non political speech. >> the reason that became a thing, is because earlier at the briefing, karine jean-pierre, the press secretary said it's not a political speech, it's an official. speech -- directly to the american people what she says it was not a political speech. >> yeah, i don't begrudge any public politician a political speech. but they went to great lengths to say it wasn't. but it was clearly a campaign

speech, he was flanked by the military, it was a bit of an imperial setting. his message to the republican ear is, if you vote for republicans, we can't have a democracy anymore. and why do you consider yourself to be maga, or whatever kind of republican, that's just going to sound ludicrous to you. that will be persuasive. >> i don't know what karine jean-pierre said. i think it's a weak argument to say is a political speech. the president is a democrat. the president uses the bully pulpit. donald trump did the same thing. >> trump did -- brock obama did the same thing. >> they all use the bully pulpit -- and they talk about the things they want to talk about. i'm not saying it's right. but that's the weakest argument, to say it's a political speech. every president gives political speeches. >> why do you give let them off the hook when they say it's not about politics, this is -- >> i'm not letting anybody off the hook. >> but you are saying i'm making a weak argument by holding them to account for their own language. >> you're making a weak argument because you are saying someone who was is the

president of the united states -- because -- that's the whole point, it's got politics. of course, he's going to use everything in his arsenal to give a speech, to try to do what? he says it's in battle for the soul of democracy. and in his estimation, according to him, republicans, maga republicans, are what? hindering our democracy. you said, i've heard you say today and i heard you say last night, he didn't say vote for any republicans. well, which republican would he vote for? should you vote for the guy in pennsylvania? who is saying that the election was stolen? >> great -- >> [inaudible] >> he tries to make a distinction in the speech between the maga republicans he hates and the publicans he claims he can work with. but the core point of the speech is, you shouldn't be voting for any republicans. so, how can you go out and say i want to work with some republicans and others -- >> did you hear him say don't vote for any republicans? >> i heard him -- >> did he explicitly say don't vote for any republicans?

-- >> i heard him say vote democrat is what you have to do to save the democracy. that's the point that i took away from. and i'm just telling you, no republican is gonna be persuaded by that. and i think having a uni party state doesn't sound like much of a democracy to me. candidly. >> i just think that everything you just said applies to donald trump. everything you just said applies to donald trump. anyways -- so, governor, you are in philadelphia, you watched the president's speech live. very forceful calling out maga republicans over a dozen times. is that the right tone? is he risking backlash here? >> a little bit. but it's an important message. first, it's an important message to our base. i've gotten about 25 emails and texts since the speech ended. from people, democrats, who are just energized by the speech. said it was fantastic. said it was incredible. so, he was on fire. i think it's an important message to our base. secondly, i think it's an important message to the american people. look, you've got the united states senator saying the decision goes against legal

decision goes against donald trump. they'll be riots in the streets, blood in the streets. that's a message that ought to be dealt with by a president saying, no. you can't have a country like. that that's not what america stands for and joe biden deliver that speech. brilliantly. >> did you think it was a political speech? were you bothered by? that should he not have focused on politics in the way that he did? >> no, every president gives political speeches. and they wrapped up in nice wrapping paper. but it's all a political message. the message behind it is, we have the good guys, support us, we will make things better. but i think there was an extra element to the speech tonight. it was a speech to the american people. saying, look, we've got to cut this out we. can't keep threatening violence. we can't keep intimidating election officials. we can't keep doing that stuff. we're better than that. we are a better country than that. whether you're republican, democrat or independent.

it's not the american way. >> listen, scott and i are sitting here going back and forth about this, the argument about it being a political speech and he should not use the levers of government and all presidents do that. do you think in this particular moment, if it is so important, the soul of our country or the soul of our democracy, do you think that they should have taken extra effort not to make it political? >> you know, i think this is an argument that really has no substance. political speeches are delivered by presidents. but look -- i think it was an important message. and an important time for the american people. was it a message that will convince people to vote for democrats? maybe. but the message is even more important than that. the message is, if you're a good republican, then vote republican. make sure its -- name -- doesn't threaten the family of an election official. that's important. >> governor, our democracy is under assault.

but is that what motivates working class americans struggling with crippling inflation? to get out and vote? >> americans are motivated by a myriad of things. i've run for office 12 times. and if you can tell me what motivates voters, with some exactitude, i love to hear it. it's different. some people will vote based on inflation. some people will vote based on the job market. rate. some people will vote based on the environment. some people will vote, but only when democracy is threatened. you saw in a recent poll, that's the second most important issue to most voters. >> governor, thank you very much. scott, kaitlan collins, i appreciate it. thank you so much. we are waiting for a ruling on team trump's plea for special master to review mar-a-lago documents. a ruling that could come at any time. anytime. so, what is going on behind the scenes? we'll discuss. ♪ my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 2 system.

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your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire the showdown in a fuller courtroom over the -- prima presidents request for special master today without his ruling for the judge. counselors repeatedly trying to downplay the seriousness of what was found in the fbi search, comparing more than 100 classified documents to an overdue library book. joining me now to discuss, cnn contributor and former nixon white house counsel, john dean. as well as cnn counterterrorism analyst and former fbi senior intelligence adviser, philip mudd. gentlemen, thank you so much. good to see you, john dean,

even after we have learned about how sensitive the documents were, trump's lawyers comparing it to, quote, an overdue library book. we're talking about the nation 's most highly guarded secrets is anyone going to buy that? >> i don't think so. it's like comparing him to clarence darrow in his closing, it just doesn't -- it's not a good analogy. it really is distorted. and i don't think anybody thinks that a document that is above top secret, that has human intelligence, signal intelligence, so sensitive that very few people are even cleared to get it, that's not a library book, don. >> phil, even in that analogy, the library book analogy, aren't they admitting that they shouldn't had have had them? and that they are at least library books are supposed to be returned? >> when it's overdue. >> yeah. excuse me.

go ahead, phil? >> i'm sorry, i find this really interesting. let me break some news for you, don. my graduate degree in 1984 was not in national security, i have a masters degree in english literature. i got that because i love language. let's spend 30 seconds looking at language. you just mentioned one piece of language, the president gets to take documents out of the oval office, those documents are just like a library book. of course he gets to take documents out of the oval office. he's the president. and he can take stuff away that was part of his personal property. we had language used earlier in the week where the president was referring to this stuff as sensitive material. sensitive material is a dodge, it's a use of language. this isn't sensitive material. it's top secret material. sensitive material might be the presidents legal documents. it's not a top secret intercept from the national security agency. let me cut to the chase, watch

how the trump team tries to obscure the fact that they can no longer escape because of the photograph we saw the other day, with the words top secret on documents on the floor. they can no longer say there's an excuse for having top secret documents because we know they were there, we know they were in the presidents desk. so, now there's at the use of language to say, it wasn't top secret, it was sensitive. it wasn't top secret, it was library books. they're switching language, don, because there's no more excuses. >> they're running, i said this last night, -- >> the shell game. >> i said this last night after the trump response. to the doj response. they are running out of excuses. what is going to be the next thing that they throw against the wall and they hope sticks? maybe it will stick. it may stick in the court of public opinion, it may actually do that. now, in a legal court? i'm not so sure about that. i'm not an attorney. but john dean, you are. does any of this makes sense to

you legally? >> well, you know, i try to get as much information from the court proceedings today as possible. the transcript isn't out, new york times did a story on it. but it's hard to tell what happened in that courtroom today. and what i sensed and from what i have gathered, this judge isn't very well versed in executive privilege. and she doesn't really -- that's not surprising. her court is likely never to deal with that again. and it's unique that it's even in her court. in fact, the presidential records always sent to the d. c. courts. that's where litigation all occurs. but anyway -- and listening to water questions and her pressing the department of justice on whether or not a special master would confuse things or delay things, she had no real clear conception of what executive privilege is. and it doesn't apply here. you can't have one part of the

government saying the other part of the government can't have access to the documents. so, it's just silly what trump is throwing out, but it's throwing confusion. >> does it sound like, john, -- >> it's confusing -- >> since you brought up the judge issue, does it sound like she's trying to educate herself? because usually, i think attorneys through briefs and motions, will try to educate judge on their thinking and where they think they should. go you think by asking this question, she's admitting that this is not her particular expertise? and she's trying to educate herself? >> i think she is. and a very good amicus brief was filed by a group of former republican high-level -- prosecutors and department of justice employees. it deals exclusively with the workings of executive privilege. and why it doesn't apply here. and so, hopefully she'll lead that amicus brief. and it will be a wonderful tutorial for her. >> very smart. thank you for that.

phil, listen, the judge says she's convinced condition considering a carve out for the -- if she appoints a special master. how important is it to keep that process from being interrupted, phil? >> i'm gonna say the wrong thing. i don't think it's that important. i know i'm not supposed to say that. but let me explain why. >> say whatever you want. >> the fbi has already gone through a triage process. i could tell you, and you could see that in the photograph that appeared the other day, the triage process isn't that hard. here's a top secret document with an orange cover. how hard is that to discern, for example, a photograph, from a time magazine cover? not that hard. the justice department has to say, we don't want this to happen. because they can't say, you shouldn't trust us. what does trump have to say? i can't trust the justice department, we have to appoint somebody independent. don, 30 seconds, cut to the chase. let's say they appoint a special master who reviews the documents recovered by the fbi agents. guaranteed, what does that special master going to say?

well, holy toledo. there is top secret documents in here. those aren't presidential or executive privileged. the fbi and the department of justice should review them. i don't think the president wins this one the in the end, and i don't think there is much of a chance he winds. >> all right. philip mudd, you can say whatever you want. you're not supposed to say -- >> bring it, don. >> listen, we all have family members who say things like, i cannot believe you said that. that's what we're trying to achieve here. that type of conversation. so say whatever you want. good to see you. bye bye. so, a tale of two speeches. president biden warning about the maga threat to democracy while kevin mccarthy is accusing the president of dividing americans. what does john kasich think of it all? that's someone who says whatever he thinks, whatever is on his mind, and you're gonna hear it after the break. the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry.

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about the threats facing our democracy and how to save it, calling out former president trump in what he calls maga republicans explicitly. saying that they thrive on chaos and warning their attempts to undermine democracy could devolve into violence. watch. >> we hear, you've heard it. more and more talk about violence. as unacceptable political tool. in this country. it's not. it can never be unacceptable on a acceptable tool. so, i want to say this plain and simple, there is no place for political violence in america. period. none. ever. >> so, joining me now is cnn's senior commentator, john kasich. john, you're one day off. it is not casual friday, today is thursday. but it's a holiday weekend so i'll give you a break. where is your tie? >> thank you, don. [laughs] here we go, we're starting.

somebody told me tonight, i said, i'm going to go on don lemon, and she said to, me while watching you and don lemon in the segments is like two men going over niagara falls in a barrel. let's see how it goes tonight. >> i love her conversations, because they are honest. you hold your own -- >> no, that's exactly right. >> and if you're not up for a good debate, don't come on this program. because that's what it's about. >> exactly. >> listen, mr. kasich, biden brought up the fbi being attacked, election election officials, poll workers threatened. he didn't say his name but he commented on lindsey graham, saying there will be violence in the streets. the gop has portrayed itself as a party of law and order, but can they really claim that anymore? especially when they make excuses for january 6th and on and on? >> well, look, there's no excuse for people making excuses for january 6th, don. but look, the republican party has always been viewed as supporters of law enforcement. and what lindsey said was terrible. would reprehensible. he should never have said it. but i think we have to separate

those who are extreme in the republican party, and those who are equally extreme in the democratic party. although republicans seem to have greater numbers at this point than the democrats do. but of course they've always been supporters of the police. but i'll say this, i'm glad to see that joe biden is talking about issues. i like to talk about issues of crime, policing, inflation, the economy. that's where we ought to be. but when it comes to january 6th, there is no excuse for people looking the other way or saying somehow it never happened. >> so, in contrast to biden, john, the former president was on the radio today saying that he's actually financially supporting insurrectionists that you just talked about, january 6th. he's supporting insurrectionists who attacked the capitol, and if he wins, he is looking at possible pardons for them. two totally different messages here. and not the message that you are conveying right here in this program. >> you know, don, the time is going to come when more

republicans are going to have to be like liz cheney. and put country over party. and say, it's not acceptable. you know, at the end of the day, with everything just that's going on in terms of the fbi search and everything else, i'm not really sure that donald trump will be the nominee. i must tell you this, before the mar-a-lago raid where people in the party, some people in the party, got really energized and a lot of them kind of fell off. he was fading. and i've told you that before. >> you've been saying that for a while -- >> now he's been rejuvenated. yeah. i don't know now what's going to happen, because more and more of this information goes comes out, you see more and more traditional republicans beginning to say that karl rove was attacking trump. -- >> he said, let's make it clear, those documents were not hesitate, i'm paraphrasing. but go on. >> of course not. i'm just saying to you, don, that there are more and more

republicans beginning to say this is not acceptable, and frankly, at some point, the vast majority will get their voices. the vast majority don't support him, maga, those maga numbers about 20% of the party. however, a lot of those people control the party apparatus. and that's why you see some of these people getting elected who are really on the extreme. extremism doesn't work in anything. in anything. >> all right, let's talk more, but before we do that i want to play this. this is joe biden talking about the election lies and what they're doing to our democracy. watch. >> democracy cannot survive. when one side believes there are only two outcomes to an election. either they win, or they were cheated. and that's where the maga republicans are today. >> so, there is a recent poll quinnipiac that found that 60% of americans think our democracy is in danger of collapse. if people are unable to accept their political losses, john, for what they are, will we lose our democracy? aren't we in danger of that?

>> no, i'm not willing to say that, don, because i think the vast majority of americans, they know that this biden won this election. and when trump continuing to say these kind of things after out there that are so extreme and so far off base, and full of baloney, americans don't like it. and they don't support it. and -- >> okay, john, i will grant you that, i agree with that, most americans don't support it. but what you just said about the small number of maga republicans. -- >> there are some bad people out there. >> okay, but those people may be in control of the elections come 2022 and 2024 and get to decide who wins or what happens next. that's pretty scary thing, if you have election deniers in those leadership roles? and those decision-making roles? >> yeah, but here's the thing, don, the process for how we pick people cannot be determined by one person and

one office. it's extremely complicated. and it's comprehensive. and if you take a look at what happened here, in this election, where there was a big head of steam up saying this was not a legitimate election, they never got anywhere. because the system is built in such a way that one person can't tip it, they couldn't do it in pennsylvania, they couldn't do it in michigan, they couldn't do it in arizona, they couldn't do it in georgia. because there's a pretty good system. but those people, who are the deniers, i hope they lose. i don't care what party they are in. if we're talking republicans, i hope they don't win. and i think what we're going to see is, the reason why the united states senate is at risk in terms of republicans winning it or not winning it, is because there have been so many bad candidates. and trump is the person behind them, and so, you know, i'm not sure they're gonna win in the fall. and i'm not for them if they're deniers like that. they're dangerous to this country. >> john, we've had some pretty good rows on this thing. you and i have gone back and forth a lot. it's good. >> not everything -- >> on the tv, on the show.

let me just say this. >> we're still buddies, right? >> yeah, of course. come on. we fight like cats and dogs, but i do that with my family too. -- of course >> so listen, two things, i like the look, the suit. younger, hipper, i like that. and this is from my former neighbor up in harlem, and she says, her name is debbie, she's watching, she said time for kasich to run again, and i'm a very liberal democrat. so, there you go. >> you know, don, i talked to liz cheney the other day and i encouraged her and i said, all those democrats like you. but if you ever run you're not gonna get their votes. i think i feel the same way about how democrats, they like me, but i'm not sure that would ever vote for me. >> you don't know unless you try, nothing beats a failure. john kasich. >> how about a unity ticket, you and me. and i'll take the second spot. >> i was gonna say, who's gonna be at the top of the ticket. all right. there you go. >> i'll take the second spot, i'm a humble man. >> all right, get out of here

you owe me a beer. >> all right my friend, great to be with you. >> you as well. texas governor greg abbott doubling down on his fight against critical race theory and he is distorting the message of dr. king, we'll explain, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ why is roger happy? it's the little things carvana does. see, roger wants to sell his car stat. little things like getting a real offer in two minutes really make roger happy. so does carvana's customer advocate caitlin picking up his car at promptly 10am. hi, are you roger? berglund. with the honda accord? yes i am. it's right over there.

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so, texas governor greg abbott is at it again. pushing to ban teaching of critical race theory in school, how? how is he doing that? by quoting al the late civil rights leader, the late reverend martin luther king jr. >> to teach students to view each other through the lens of race. well, that's contrary to what martin luther king jr taught us. is that we're not to be judged by the color of our skin, were we are to be judged by the content of our character. of the united states of america. >> here is the fact. the fact is that critical race theory is not generally taught

in grade school. and my next guest says abbott is warping dr. king's message. dr. peniel joseph is founder for the center for the study of race and democracy. we're so happy you're here. he's the author of the book, the third reconstruction, america's struggle for racial justice in the 21st century. it is available on september 6th. again, welcome, good evening, thank you. so, you said that governor abbott is distorting the truth true meaning of dr. king's message with these comments? explain how, peniel why. >> he's taking that phrase, don, from the i have a dream speech from august 28th, 1963, and in that speech, there's a point where king says he has a dream that has for four little children will be judged, not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. but when you listen to the full speech, right before he says that, he says that mississippi is a state sweltering with the heat of racial oppression. right after he says that, he talks about the need for

protests to end structural racism and white supremacy in the country. so, what he meant when he said not judged by the color of their skin, but the content of their character, he wasn't asking us to subscribe to color blindness. he wasn't trying to tell us to pretend that i don't see that your skin color, and you don't see my skin color. what he was saying was that we would no longer attribute any kind of negative connotations to that skin color. so, he was living in a time, jim crow, united states, 1963, where black men and women and children were profiled, were discriminated against. because of their skin color. so, he wasn't asking us to live in some kind of color blind world. he was just saying that we couldn't be so color conscious that when we see people have difference, we subscribe stereotypes or any kind of negative or discriminatory behavior towards them.

and by the way, since dr. king has made that speech, and since we've had the mlk holiday starting in 1983, conservatives have used the content of our character phrase to push back against any kind of racial justice public policy, from affirmative action to voting rights to desegregation of public schools and neighborhoods. so, they're utilizing dr. king, who's really one of the co-architects of american democracy during the second reconstruction -- they are utilizing his words to contravene the direct message he's sent to all of us. >> listen, when someone uses that color blind phrase, it just shows their ignorance. and it's insulting to people of color. right? that you are color blind -- i know some people are trying to say, but it is insulting. so, you know, work on that. you point out that this type of anti crt legislation goes

precisely against what mlk was arguing for. i understand that. so, i want to play something else that governor abbott said, and let's talk about it. >> we will not use your taxpayer dollars to fund our schools, to teach our students to hate each other, or to hate our country. we need to be educating our students exactly why and how the united states of america did become the greatest country in the history of the world. >> so, why would he have gotten -- we wouldn't have gotten where we are now as a country, right, today, without the contributions of people of color. why do you think he's trying so hard to stifle that part of history? >> well, because we're still locked in a narrative war between what i call we constructionists, who are supporters of multi racial democracy, and redemption

insists, who are advocates of white supremacy. and that narrative war is about the story we tell to each each other, about, us and really this great but very tragic country. we can either spin a tale of mythology and say that we always got along, or that we had past problems and we completely perfect -- [inaudible] , or we can talk about the tragedy in the beauty of the story. langston hughes said that black people and all were beautiful but they were ugly too. so part of what we have to do is tell a different story. we're trying to tell that different story, don. the 1619 project is part of that different story. the stories of asian americans specific pacific islander history queer stories, latinx stories, the black lives matter movement. i try to do this third reconstruction as well. we need to tell our kids a story that shows the tragedy, but also the beauty of this country.

that shows what it was like for racial slavery to end, and how people who were enslaved became architects of american democracy. we need to uphold the white people who have been abolitionists, and right now, are staunch anti racists. and not just allies, more than that, they stand in solidarity with black people. we need to tell stories about our brown sisters and brothers who stand in solidarity with us, our asian american and pacific islander sisters and brothers, our indigenous sisters and brothers who stand with us. that is the story that can build consensus and community. so, i reject governor abbott's notion that, if we tell a critical version of american history, we somehow are not patriotic, we somehow do not love the country and do not believe in the country. if anything, those of us who have strived, whether we are prisoners or politicians, preachers from the pulpit or

poor people who are searching for welfare rights, and ending homelessness and housing insecurity -- that is the story of the united states of america. so, if we are going to be true to the creed of the country, we have to be honest about the flaws of the country and the shortcomings of the country, but also the ways in which our greatest ideals have pushed us forward together to try to create that beloved community. so, they think, telling the truth makes us weaker. i would argue that telling the truth makes us unstoppable. so, if we can tell the truth about our country, we give all of ourselves a reason to fight for democracy. because we can be liberties surest guardian and we can be that beacon, that shining city on a hill, but we have to admit, we have to not been that for all people. but the goal of america -- like dr. martin luther king jr, said, the goal of america's freedom, but dr. king also said america had a sickness, and the

sickness was racism. and he was only the physician diagnosing the disease. he did not cause the disease. and he pushed back against [ conservatives who felt that his preaching and his political organizing were stirring things up. he said that what he was trying to do is build a beloved community. that required some truth telling in order to save the soul of america. >> peniel, a perfect way to sum it up. thank you, peniel, let's put up the book again right before we go. it's peniel's book, it's out come september. and it's called the third reconstruction. thank, you sir. >> thank you. >> we will be right back.

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