murray, political analyst laura bu roan lopez, and former special assistant watergate professor nick acerman, and also attorney bradley moss. a very important panel to talk about this issue. i want to begin with you, sarah, because you've been going through the inventory documents from the mar-a-lago search. tell me what is standing out to you. >> certainly the volume. there were 11,000 documents not classified but also when you dig into these documents you have 103 classified documents but 18 of those are top secret, 54 are secret, 34 are dnchs, so all levels of classification. there are also a bunch of these empty folders, some of them have classified markings on them. some of them say return to a staff secretary or a military aide. and as you pointed out a lot of these documents, these government documents, these classified documents are just

mixed in with a mess of whole other stuff. >> i find that odd. some kind affjunk drawer happening because, look, some of the nation's most important secrets potentially -- and again we don't know what is in these documents. we still don't know. we know the type of document, the classification. bullet the fact a document of this potential could be mixed in with clothes and gifts and press clippings, do you see possibly an innocent explanation interest this? let's think about a benefit of the doubt. can one be extended? >> not at all. i mean there is absolutely no good reason for donald trump to have taken any of this. i mean, there's no justification for why he'd have to use it. i mean it just -- these are documents that belong to the government. they should have been left behind. he has not come up with any justification as to why he had the right to have these documents. he claimed at one point recently that he declassified them.

but he never made that argument in the course of, oh, two years or year and a half of wrangling back and forth with national archives officials, doj officials before they finally executed the search warrant. so it seems like that argument's just been made up after the fact. and he's come up with no explanation. >> and i might add i don't recall one being given to the judge in the most recent filing about this special master in the declassification process. you have to wonder, bradley, and think about this certainly it would have been easier to just give documents back, not taken them in the first place. but the idea of retaining counsel, going through all this, having the back and forth, just begs the question as to why. why fight so hard for these documents? but i do want to point out there are some empty folders in here. empty folders that are marked classified. and i don't know about you but people mostly have you probably have manila folders somewhere in

your office someplace that's empty. this is not the typical case or office drawer for most people. we're talking about mar-a-lago, a former president, top secret information. the fact there are empty files does that mean nothing was in them to begin with, they're being recycled? or does it mean that maybe information of a top secret nature could actually be missing now and unaccounted for? >> yes, so that's certainly one of the unresolved questions here. and obviously i believe that's something the fbi would like to know is what was originally in there and when. it certainly could be the case when they were packing up the white house and moved everything to mar-a-lago, they just stuffed things into these folders that had nothing to do with classified information that they may have previously been used in that matter. bullet that's an unresolved issue that has to be clarified. donald trump's a notorious pack rat. he likes souvenirs. he thinks it's cool. he thinks it's stuff he has he

can show up to friends at mar-a-lago or bedminster. he has no idea what those procedures are or why those security measures are in place. this is the fall out not just from a criminal perspective possibility but the national security one that these records were exposed to any number of people. >> i'm as much of a pack rat as anyone else. joy, i don't know his little process of things but sounds like what you just described it me just now that suggests he couldn't have formed a criminal intent, perhaps. if he were to be charged -- and we're not there. i don't want to get ahead of this case. i don't what want plan to do. but the fact he was ignorant to the protocol and process, does that help him? >> not really because the relevant provision they're referencing under the espionage act only indicates if you're retaining the documents. not the gross negligence or

anything like that during the hillary clinton saga. this was you took the documents to an location and continually to willfully detain them despite the fact you were supposed to give them back over. that's what puts him in criminal liability. >> interesting fact. we turn to you, laura, because i love your flame, laura. and i want to ask you about the political implications as well. tying trump possibly to the mishandling, the possession and his counsel potentially confirmed, yes, he had them and they may be overdue library books. what does it mean politically? because you have to remember much of the january 6th hearings. are the republicans following along? >> republicans seem to be rallying around -- at least a strong faction of republicans rallying around the former president. but politically you'd have to think this would harm republicans running in swing states across the country simply because of the fact we saw what happened in 2020 where a lots of

independents and a number of swing voters decided to vote with president biden because, you know, i was in arizona and they were turned off boy the nonstop negativity, the nonstop accusations trump would hurl. and we saw that this fbi investigation so far in the fact that they searched his florida residence, has only turned trump into what he used to be in terms of just constantly on truth social. this week alone then span of some 24 hours he was sharing true social users who were qanon adherents his posts and saying he should be declared the rightful winner of the 2020 election, and if he wasn't there should be another election immediately held. so he's constantly on his own social media site right now, which is being amplified across republican circles. and that's something a lot of voters when you talk to them in

these states if they are swing voters, they aren't happy with that, and they don't like to see he's out there still making those bombastic claims about the election. >> well, you know who is amplifying a message, laura? this is the former attorney general bill barr, and i want to play for everyone what he said about the mar-a-lago investigation on fox news. listen to this. >> let me just say i think the driver on this from the beginning was, you know, loads of classified information sitting in mar-a-lago. people say it was unprecedented, well, it's also unprecedented for a president to take all this classified information and put them in a country club, okay? and how long is the government going to try and get that back? they jawboned for a year. they were deceived on the voluntary actions taken. they then went and got a subpoena. they were deceived on that -- they feel. and the record so how long do

they wait? >> nick, i want to come back on this point. laura, on your end the fact bill barr is coming out pretty forcefully against trump on fox news i wonder what message this might send. keep in mind as we all know this is someone who's written a book, not necessarily going to be invited to thanksgiving dinner of the former president there. they're potentially persona non grata to one another, but how does this come across politically? >> there have been a lot of -- i shouldn't say a lot. there are have been a number of republicans similar to barr trying to caution against rallying to trump's side in wake of the mar-a-lago search. they've tried to say that there's a lot of information that we don't know here including potentially how extensive this breach was, how many people, you know, potentially had access to these documents. was it a small handful?

was it a lot of people given that we know a number of people circulate through mar-a-lago on a daily basis. who exactly got their hands on this information? and the fact there was classified information right next to nonclassified, you know, the intel officials and former intel officials i talk to say that's just 101 no-no they're not supposed to be put together at any point. >> nick, to the point barr made as well he called it jawboning. there's been a tremendous deference of the former president to try to negotiate in terms of returning what is posed to be the property of the government. they have allowed trump to stall and to hand over bits and pieces of information at a time. and some of the common sense thoughts here i mean during all the waiting, i mean what if team trump just made copies of the classified documents? what if they handed things over? could there just be assurances

that they had essentially been cooperative in a way that would satisfy the government and the archives? >> well, look, we know that they weren't cooperative. we knew at the end of the day when the government finally gave them a search warrant that the government realized they weren't cooperative. they had somebody who was an insider who's basically telling the fbi what was going on. they knew where to search for these documents. a lot of them, i mean a good portion of these documents were found in donald trump's own office. so this -- this was a matter that they bent over backwards, they give him the benefit of the doubt in the initial stage. they gave him a search -- they give him the subpoena to try and get the documents. and then they learned that basically they had been as bill barr said, jerked around, and that's why they went in with the search warrant. and on top of all that, i mean donald trump since the day of

that search warrant has just continuously shot himself in the foot, first of all, announcing the fact there was a search warrant and then continuously trying to get more information, which has just made him look worse and worse. so this has been a colossal political and legal failure for him, whether he gets the special master or not. all of this information has come out because donald trump basically asked for it. >> there has been a series of self-inflicted wounds. and from the legal counsel perspective as well, bradley, right, they are in part entangled in a way having previously certified and attested that everything was complete, they handed over everything, they had searched things. you have to wonder at what point in time that will come up. but we're also standing by to nick's point and the one saria made earlier we're waiting to hear whether trump will get the special master he wants to go over the mar-a-lago documents.

frankly, it could happen any moment. and chad and cathy, bill barr said a lot today on fox news. he even said this about the special master. >> i think the whole idea of a special master is a bit of a red herring at this stage since they've already gone through the documents. i think it's a waste of time. >> then he also spoke with "the new york times" tonight and had this quote calling it a crock of sugar. do you agree? >> pigs must be able to fly because i agree with bill barr on something. the special master is a tomtal red herring. they're still government records. they belong to the government, not to donald trump. they belong to the archives where they're supposed to be documented and logged for historical reasons. the presidential library if

donald trump wanted to build one. they're not his personal records. they're not his souvenirs. everyone is waiting for this ruling from the judge. every day that passes, every hour that passes without an injunction from that judge they're still passing what they've got and doing their work. >> a good point time is of the essence. i don't know what he's doing right now in terms of deciding the issue but every day there's not been a ruling. doj hadn't stopped waiting for that rule to come in. sarah, we're also learning tonight after the mar-a-lago search mark meadows turned over text messages and e-mails. is there a correlation? >> that's right. he turned these over to the national archives and essentially the archives learned they didn't have everything from mark meadows because they started to see the stuff he had provided to the january 6th committee. and so that set this off. and the meadows situation is different because these are not classified documents. he is not in the same position the former president is in. and the archives does see him as a cooperative witness.

but the timing is interesting. it's awkward. one source told my colleagues who were working on this story this has absolutely nothing to do with the timing of the mar-a-lago search, that all of a sudden he has all these documents to hand over. but another source said, look, all of a sudden the week of this mar-a-lago search we start getting way more documents than we've been getting before. >> coincidences, you've got to love thel on a friday night after there's been a search of mar-a-lago. from mark meadows, interesting. who knows if it's coordinated or not. always nice to see you all on this evening. and hey, listen, while we're waiting for that special master news we're also getting the very latest on serena williams. that's up next.

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["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] well, president joe biden is defending his prime time speech on the dangers to democracy. to remind you here's what he said a little earlier today. >> i don't consider any trump supporter a threat to the country. i do think anyone who calls for the use of violence, feels the

content of violence when it's used, refuses to acknowledge when an election has been won, insists upon changing the way in which the rules you can vote, that is a threat to democracy. >> i want to bring in cnn senior political analyst ron brownstein and also mark mckinnon, a former advisor to george w. bush and john mccain and executive producer of "the circus." let's start with you, ron. president biden he's trying to draw the battle lines for the mid-terms. he's more frsful than has been in recent times. he's essentially saying you're for democracy or against it. i'm wondering what you make of this potential strategy come this november. >> first of all i think it's really important the line you noted he drew. when you're the president you have to be careful when you're talking about large groups of

people. but he went over and again to clear he was not talking about all republicans and i think the polling is questionable on that assertion, but he was isolating the trump movement. and i think it is very hard to ignore the reality that there is an authoritarian strain within the trump movement that is part of the republican party. and the reaction to this by so many republicans and conservatives to say, well, he's smearing all 74 million people who voted for donald trump i think actually underscores the vulnerability here. because we do know from polling that there is something between a fifth and a quarter of republican voters who are uneasy with everything donald trump has done since the election, do see him having responsibility for january 6th, who are worried about the kind of normalization of political violence. and one of the key questions for november is can democrats

sustain the gains they made in '18 and '20 among white collar voters who usually lean republican in the past? and there's evidence they are not specifically with democracy but related to donald trump as a central figure in our political debate. >> you can look at congresswoman liz cheney as an example in the republican party and there's also a spectrum in the democratic party there's not a monolith even when you're talking about partisanship. republicans are slamming biden's speech for many of the reasons articulated that it's divisive and political. but, i mean, the de facto leader of the republican party, one named donald trump is embracing the people who stormed the capitol, talking about even pardoning those who may be prosecuted and convicted. i wonder in this overall scheme of things it appears to be this identity crisis, not one from within but one of how they're being perceived.

do you think that the gop has come to terms with what party they have become at least in the eyes of many voters? >> well, i think ron put a fine point on it, which is what's happening and what is effective about what joe biden is doing is he is confronting the entire republican party with an inconvenient truth. now, there's a good portion of that party which we know, of course, will embrace the inconvenience -- i mean will deny in the inconvenient truth because they believe anything donald trump tells them. but there's a portion of that electorate they know. they've been putting up with it but they've been hoping trump would go away and all things would be okay. and it started to look that way earlier this summer, that they had good issues to run on, trump had receded from the screen. but now trump is back full screen and i think very effectively is saying, listen, you either confront the truth

and deny donald trump or you're embracing the lie. and that's tough for some, not enough but enough. >> to your point i remember so well to bring it up again congresswoman liz cheney when she repeated nearly every single hearing date that she would talk about the truth is not going to be, you know, one that maybe you want to accept, that you've been lied to, et cetera. she'd try to ease into this very notion on these things. ron, obviously as mark has talked about, neither biden nor trump are actually on the ballot in about 60 some odd days, but are these mid-terms shaping up to be really about the two men not on the ballot, biden and trump? and if that's the case, which one has the advantage? >> well, that's really interesting. i mean, traditionally mid-terms have been solely a referendum on the party in power. and the critical variable in the mid-term has been the approval rating of the incumbent president. but this is evolving. there's no question that the landscape looks very different

now than it did earlier this summer, and it's becoming much more of a choice. donald trump's visibility, the supreme court decision overturning roe v. wade, the massacre in texas, the climate change bill that democrats passed. all of those things, i think, combined have created an environment in which the issue is not solely what democrats have done or not done over the past 18 months but what republicans would do if returned to power. and the other thing, laura, that's happened that's important is that over the summer there's been an unequivocal demonstration that the trump faction is the largest faction and the dominant faction in the republican party. it's been nominating election deniers, you know, all over the place, arizona and nevada and michigan, pennsylvania, et cetera. so that's really forced -- you know, put a fine point on the choice facing the republican voters that one fifth to one quarter who are uneasy with all this. do they want to stay at this

point in a coalition where they are clearly the subordinate minority and faced with supporting trump and enabling lies and anti-democratic actions. >> if the idea is and ron's correct this is very large faction or a very large majority of this party, what is the choice then that there becomes a new republican party or it reverts back to a certain -- what's the next step then? >> well, god, i hope so. i mean republicans like me have been on an island for a while and we can only cheer for people like liz cheney who stands up for truth and democracy and hope that coalition begins to build itself and the parties rebuilds itself. because we can't condone the lies that continue to be embraced by the maga faction of the republican party as -- as currently governed by the ex-president. >> you know, it's important to

think about where -- some of the where-tos and what's next on all of these. obviously we're all looking ahead to the mid-term elections and what's going to happen. of course there's the mid-terms election as you know and then there's the 2024 election. and we're all waiting with bated breath to figure out who will be the rnc and the democratic candidate for it. it'll all flush out pretty soon at least we hope. >> can i add one thing real fast? >> of course. >> in terms of your point. something very unusual is happening in this mid-term election. there were five states that went from trump in 2016 to biden in 2020. they're essentially the states that elected trump -- elected biden. arizona and georgia and the sun belt, michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin and the rust belt. and all five of those states you have hand-selected republican nominees basically chosen by trump running for senate or governor or both. and it will be a very

interesting question whether there are any republicans if those candidates don't do well in november. are there any republicans willing to get up and say, look, we've just gotten a signal from the states from the tipping point of the election that the trump direction is not a winning strategy in these states. or is his hold so impregnable that no republicans are really able or willing to acknowledge what could be an important snl f signal from the electorate of these trump selected nominees tilt short in a year. >> we will see. and now to an update you to a story we reported last night on this program. it was about the shooting of donovan lewis in columbia, ohio. this program showed a graphic after that story aired that made it seem casey goodson jr. was

shot by an officer from the police department. he was not. casey goodson jr. was shot by a deputy from the franklin county sheriff's department. we apologized for any confusion that may have caused. serena williams, everyone, falling in the third round at the u.s. open. we'll look at the match and her extraordinary legacy next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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serena williams, the 23-time grand slam singles champion considered by many to be the greatest of all-time played what

likely is the final professional tennis match of her career. losing in the third round of the u.s. open just moments ago. but like michael jordan said, you know, i never actually lost a game, i just ran out of time. well, perhaps her time has come to an end, but she is an icon nonetheless on and off the court. i want to bring in robin gibbon, a senior critic at large at "the washington post." so glad to see you here tonight. i can't help but smile thinking about the career of serena williams. she is my contemporary, and i think about watching her for all of these years. and frankly, robin, she made such a remarkable comeback this week that was an amazing match. her energy, the crowd just loves her. what did you think of her performance this evening? and not even that, what do you think of the career that she has had? >> well, you know, her performance this evening was extraordinary.

she is a mesmerizing athlete. but, you know, i'll leave sort of sports analysis to the experts, and i'll just say that i think that, you know, part of the magic of serena is that she certainly transcended tennis. she transcended sports. i thought it was really significant that she decided to talk about her evolving as she put it away from tennis not in a sports publication but in a fashion magazine, in "vogue." and part of that i think is, one, she loves fashion. she's passionate about it. but it's also a place that under the best of circumstances really sort of shines a light on the broad spectrum of women's interests, their desires, their power, their passion, their expertise. and i think it was sort of a

signal to the world that she considers herself to be this fully three dimensional person who is more than an athlete. >> just thinking about that as you say that beautiful picture of her -- gracing the cover of "vogue." i think her daughter might be holding onto one end of that dress as well. a beautiful photograph. and she talked about that evolution. as you put it so well, robin, so often we pigeonhole as a society. we decide what you are supposed to be. and it is the rare breed, the rare exception of those able and forthright under the enormous pressure someone like her is under to say i will chart my own course unapologetically. and i think about that when i think about serena williams about what her and her sister endured quite early on in her career to what you're talking about. we call it fashion today, but at

the time i remember being around her age and people were poking fun about her hair and they were talking about their body, talking about their clothing time. who can forget the black cat suit, the grunts on the court by people? all this came to this unapologetic notion as she said two nights ago i'm just serena. >> yeah, i mean she brought her entire self to the public stage. and while i think often people want to sort of trivialize what fashion is, fundamentally it really is about how we want to be seen on the public stage. it's how we want to define ourselves and how we want others to see us. and she was very vocal through her -- her presence that she wanted to be seen as a black woman in all that that entails. people talk about the beads she

wore in her hair early on. that was very much sort of not part of a euro centric beauty standard. and she wasn't bullied out of that. and i use that term very intentionally, bully because the fashion industry, the style industry, the beauty in the world, the culture at large can be very bullying about the way that it believes people should look to be acceptable, to be considered valuable. and she proved that her value, her worth without changing her sensibility. and the other thing that i think is also important is that, you know, at the time she was sort of coming into her own as a public figure, it was -- it was an enormous leap to be that confident. you know, fashion has a way of sort of putting people into --

through a thrasher almost and it pall ashes off their rough edges. and she didn't allow that to happen. >> and i'm glad she didn't. and of course what she showcased was her extraordinary talent. and i'm looking forward to the evolution of the other talent he's already cultivated and will continue to display. i heard a lot of commentators throughout the these matches saying oh, my gosh, keep in mind this is mother on this court. and i couldn't help but laugh every time and go she's a mother, she has a daughter. we know. look at her, there she is. that picture of her daughter watching her own mother and thinking about all those years away. i can't wait to see what she pursues in her next chapter. robin, so nice to see you. >> thank you so much. now, it was once called the best small library in america. now an idaho library is struggling to survive as armed activists push for it to ban more than 400 books.

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a battle is taking place in one small community in northern idaho. christian activists are demanding that more than 400 books be banned from the library, but not one of the books on their list is even on the shelves. it battle is a microcosm of an even bigger one that's brewing and it's prompting liberals and conservatives to join together to fight back. more tonight from cnn's nick watt. >> reporter: five years ago this was anointed the best small library in america. today the trustees are facing a recall. >> what i would hate to see is

my community torn apart like this. >> reporter: the director just resigned. do you feel that you've given in, that you've been defeated here? >> part of me does, yes. but they start showing up at your house, guns on their hips and bible tracks in their hands. >> reporter: activists demanding hat the library ban more than 400 books like "gender queer." >> even if we do nothing to you eventually if you don't repent of wanting to have have our children with pornography, that's up to god. >> things need to change otherwise you bring curses upon yourselves, period, from the most high. >> reporter: are any of those books in the library? >> not a single one. >> reporter: still, this little library might not survive. >> our insurer has decided too not renew what they're saying are increased risk exposures. we can't operate without insurance. >> reporter: we bumped into one of the people pushing the recall taking out books to see if they should also be banned.

she refused to talk to us. in fact, everyone on that side of the argument we reached out to refused to talk to us. but one of them did explain hair motivation at a library board meeting. they are now held here because so many people were showing up to the meetings, so many of them were armed that they moved the library board meetings to bigger building that is also right next to the sheriff's department. here is that one woman's motivation. >> my job is to protect our kids from sexual deviants who will be drawn to our library if inappropriate sexual materials is on our shelves and using our kids as prey. >> reporter: this week we showed up with our cameras to a board meeting. >> it was wonderful to not be, like, attacked. >> reporter: and the would-be book banners did not. >> so what is going on, nick, is there is a group of individuals that are moving into the area

who are -- they have the intent of turning this into what they call the american redoubt. >> reporter: coined back in 2011 by a christian survivalist, the american redoubt, a refuge for self-d self-described god fearing liberty loving patriots. this store owned by a pastor who moved up from california. here's how he described it back in 2015. >> if we will put him first blessed will be redoubt. by god's grace we won't see the homo sexuality and rampant lesbianism we see in california. >> reporter: there are now so many redoubters some realtors cater to them. one has this ad on his website. >> in the days of old the men would lead, women would nurture. >> reporter: the aryan nations for a long time they were head quared here they had a similar plan but for a white-only home

here. many fought against that. >> they've been going to library board meetings and yelling and screaming at people. and we're here being very quiet and very polite. we're having a readf-in support of the library. >> reporter: the resistance here is a coalition of liberals and conservatives. this is a pretty conservative. >> very conservative. >> reporter: christian community. >> very so. >> reporter: and a lot of people here voted for president trump. >> very much so. >> reporter: most folks here voted for trump in 2016. even more voted for him in 2020 but -- >> this goes beyond any conservatism into almost nazism where they're trying to force their own ideas and their own religious concepts on everybody else. that's not america. >> reporter: we spoke to the former mayor, you know, who voted for trump. and he's on the same side as liberal people here. >> well, of course. yeah.

we're neighbors. >> reporter: councilwoman val thompson's family has been here five generations. >> one of my friends had somebody tell him the other day that the american redoubt is here and it might be time for you to exit. >> reporter: there are politicians like this running and winning. >> i'm talking about really raunchy stuff in these kids books for 7-year-olds. homefully you have secured your local elections. you need a good sheriff, and you need three county commissioners. >> reporter: there are claims critical race theory is being taught in schools i -- >> we had one mom come in and say this has black lives matter themes. >> reporter: did it? >> it was a fairy tale by chris -- so it probably has people of color in the book. >> reporter: on that list given to the library i saw "who was frederick douglas." >> right. >> reporter: why is that an issue? >> well, i haven't read "who was frederick douglas," but i'm assuming that there was something in it that was

offensive or made somebody feel guilty for being white. i have no idea. >> reporter: as i've said it's not in the library. neither is "gender queer" but -- >> the conflict is i cannot say we will not get them because we're a library. if the public comes and requests those books, we will get those books. that's what we do. >> reporter: they say they are not censors, that this library must serve everyone. so, laura, the lady you just saw in that report taking out books to see if they should be banned and refusing to talk to us, well, this morning she wrote a letter to a bunch of local law enforcement, to the state attorney general basically accusing the library director and her supporters of trying to silence them, ignoring them, and lying to the press. and alleging there's some kind of cozy relationship between local law enforcement and the library supporters. so asking for an outside agency to come in to investigate. battle lines are drawn.

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