-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is "gps," the "global public square." welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i am fareed zakaria coming to you live from outside buckingham palace in london. ♪ we will begin today's program with the passing of britain's

longest-serving monarch queen elizabeth ii. [ bell tolls ] guests and i will reflect on this one monarch's great legacy. and the many challenges the new sovereign charles iii must now face. >> hi, nice to meet you. >> then, i travel to kyiv this week to talk to the man in the crucible of the 21st century's war in europe. ♪ ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy. we sat down for a wide-ranging conversation. we talked about ukraine's ability to counter russia's attack. kyiv's big new push in the south and east. whether he and his nation are ready if this turns into a long fight. president zelenskyy and i went for a walk outside. and i had to ask him, wasn't he

worried that putin might target him? >> it doesn't matter for me because we can't be afraid of him. >> but first, here's my take. for me, the most striking aspect of queen elizabeth ii's 70-year reign was her iron determination to be boring. bear with me. in those seven decades, she very rarely let slip her views about any political and public events in which she presided. we don't know what she thought of donald trump or barack obama or margaret thatcher. and we never will. elizabeth was the most disciplined public figure of the past century. in a confessional age when we post every idea, urge, impulse and image that pops into our heads, this woman kept her own

counsel. as tina brown, the author of the fascinating book "the palace papers," notes, elizabeth was careful even at her own family's weddings and funerals, rarely smiling or weeping, always maintaining dignity and the appearance of detachment. that was her interpretation of her role as a constitutional monarch, one who leads all the people and never takes sides. and she played it better than anyone ever has. even during the contentious debate over brexit, she never let slip her own preferences. then prime minister david cameron had to apologize to her in person for revealing that she was voted down scotland's independence. it's easy to think of britain's royal family as leading a charmed life. they get to live in grand palaces enjoying the world's attention, and for the most part, adulation. that is all true. but the queen demonstrated the other side of that coin, that doing it right, fulfilling one's duty, can be hard and unsparing

in its own way. an endless stream of public duties large and small must be fulfilled. above all, it requires self-. the odyssey of harry and meghan, the duke and duchess of sussex, reveals the challenges of the modern monarchy. aside from the incendiary charges of racism they claimed from others, particularly given that as minor royals, they were destined to live a comparatively modest life. that's reported why prince andrew was always hanging around rich people hoping for a handout or more. given their fame, harry and meghan appeared to realize that they could break out, cash in, and enjoy much greater affluence with far more personal freedom. and so they did. but they were acting as individualists. the queen acted as an institutionalist, preserving the stature of the british

government. the 19th century writer famously wrote that any constitutional system needs two parts. one dignified, the other efficient. one to awe the public and the second to make government work. elizabeth perfectly exemplified the dignified aspect, something we in the united states could use a bit more of in our constitutional system. the american president is of course simultaneously the head of government and the head of state. that combination has its advantages. it fuses power and prestige and it makes the chief executive a commanding presence on the world stage. but it can also demean the office and american democracy itself. when trump as president acted in particularly egregious ways, he was not just behaving badly as a person but eroding norms for american democracy. after all, britain has had its share of weak and unimpressive prime ministers, but their behavior hasn't had the same sweeping effect on the country's image.

we live in an age in which few people think about institutions and even fewer are willing to make the sacrifices involved in upholding them. one who did was george marshall who served as franklin roosevelt and harry truman's secretary of state, secretary of defense, chief of the army and was regarded by many people as the man who organized the united states' victory in world war ii. marshall refused to write a memoir of his time in office, despite being offered princely advances. he believed that to do so would be to improperly profit from government service. chief justice john roberts is one of america's last institutionalists. as a conservative jurist, he probably agrees with the conservative consensus that as a matter of technical, judicial reasoning, roe v. wade was deeply flawed. but he also wants to preserve the legitimacy of the court in a country where for nearly 50 years women have relied on roe's established rights and

protections. so he tried to get his conservative colleagues to rally around a compromise, one that would maintain the constitutional right to abortion but considerably reduce roe's expansive protections. not one of his conservative colleagues would side with him. for all of them, ideology trumped institutionalism. we live life as individuals but also as part of a society. and to make societies function well, we've always needed some norms that ask the individual to step back, to sacrifice some ego, and to play a role in a larger project. no one has performed those duties better than queen elizabeth ii. go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to my "washington post" column, and let us get started. ♪ ♪ yesterday in a ceremony,

king charles iii was formally declared queen. and today the queen was driven from balmoral castle to her official residence in scotland. it is a monarchy transition for the first time in 70 years. joining me now are two celebrated historians. kate is cnn's royal expert, and simon received a knighthood for his contributions to history in 2019. simon, sir simon, since we are in the title mood -- >> you don't have to kneel yet, fareed. >> why do you think the queen inspires this awe? she doesn't have any power -- >> badger said something else about the monarchy, which is very interesting. he described a constitutional monarch as needing to embody

ceremoniousness, almost like a kind of secular devotional religion. but he also said something very startingly modern. he said it will only be effective if he or she is intelligible to the ordinary person. an extraordinary thing about the late queen is that from this incredibly narrow upbringing, not being allowed to go to school, you know, some things that were criticized by people in the 1960s, like john gregg who later said the reason why she behaves decently is because she's decent. but despite her narrow upbringing, she managed to have the common touch that people responded to. and i think the bigger issue about her life and her reign and indeed about constitutional monarchy, you touched on in your remarks is that one of the things which is most challenging, goodness knows that you and i who both live in the united states is to find a way

to feel part of a nation that is not simply captive to brutal partisan politics, which is not simply a matter of oppositional argument but accusations of enmity, of bitter enmity, and what the monarchy provided was a way to feel part of this extended family of nation without being suspected of being on an ego trip, lining your pockets. so that is an extraordinary gift. if you think about other presidents, as it were, in germany, for example, who are not politicians, or in israel. they do that but nowhere near. they can't possibly have this power of evoking as coming from the past as the queen did. >> part of it strangely seems to be that it's birthright.

she hasn't had to earn it. think about the japanese emperor, the thai emperor. there's this sense of almost veneration. but, kate, there is also an impressive public relations effort. i mean, the queen has all this publicity but she doesn't give interviews. she has given one interview in her life. we have been given this gorgeous backdrop by buckingham palace. they are conscious of the need to allow the public to venerate. >> yes, fareed. and i thought your take, your point that she's had to work so hard not to intervene, not for people to know about what she thinks is very significant, to think she came to the throne so young, just 25, and really, as simon was saying, her education had been quite sparse. but she's expecting to be really watching her father for the next 15 years, that didn't happen. she was pitched into a new role. and a new role in which it was a

changing world. 1950s post-war britain, there was a lot of anger about what people had suffered. it was still a world of rationing, and also it wasn't a time when people expected to see a working woman, especially not a working mother. very few women were in positions of power. we didn't have a female bank manager and of course not a female prime minister for the nearly 25 years of margaret thatcher. we look on her great memory, her great intellect, her powerful sense of duty. but there was what winston churchill called a child. and some creativeness, wondrous image of monarchy, which really we see the big push in the first televising of the coloniaton. the queen is, is this huge performance, all the pomp, all the ceremony. and there was so much support for that. because initially there was

concern that it would be too much to televise it or it would undermine the majesty of royalty. and really when it was, there were all these newspapers saying the culmination, the monarchy is no longer just for lords and ladies. we are watching it on tv. it's for all of us. and that throughout her reign, she has been the television queen. she's used television to get her message out. it has been a brilliant selling of monarchy, the duke of edinburgh said we fight an election every day, and that's what they did. >> i have 30 seconds before we go to break. i just want to ask you, she presided over the collapse of the british empire, though. >> yeah. elizabeth i and queen victoria, at the end of their reigns britain was much powerful. so she had a much, much harder assignment. >> all right. stay with us. we are going to be back with kate and simon later on "gps," we have an exclusive interview

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nature, on urban planning, on islam. can he now step into that role of being the empty vessel that everyone puts whatever they want into? >> yes, this is a good question. and there have been doubts about charles before. his opinion ratings are usually quite low, under 50%. but in his speech to the nation, and also in his speech on excession, he made it very clear that he's going to uphold constitutional monarchy and follow his mother's service. he said i'm putting my causes aside. what he's saying is that he's going to be like his mother, stay neutral, stay out of politics in that respect. and i think at the moment there's a lot of support for him and see how he keeps it. but certainly she's a hard act to follow. >> one of the things they've been able to do under elizabeth is maintain this broader association with the world, that charles is now head of state in australia and new zealand and a bunch of caribbean countries. do you think that kind of thing is viable and britain is not the

power it once was, there almost seems a kind of balancing act. >> i think there's enormous opportunity actually. remember, it was the queen, she was in full support that it should be just the commonwealth. and she was very proactive about wanting it. there's a moment in her christmas broadcast in 1983, got her into some trouble. she wasn't always boring, fareed, where she said the great core existential problem of the world is the gap between rich and poor countries. there are members of the commonwealth like gabon for example and mozambique that had no connection with british imperial past that are now members of the commonwealth. i know the king, not very well, but we do know each other. i've been part of a teaching state school organization, she's done wonderful work. with all, i'm sure he has the best intentions to button his

lip. i think it's going to happen quite the same way. and i don't think it should. i think he's got to be himself. now, it so happens that you said his love of nature, let's not undersell it. for 40 years he's been rather obsessed with climate change, with environmental destruction. well, that happens to be the greatest of all our present existential crisis. it affects pandemics, it affects global economics. he needs to find a way to finesse his strong views about that. but you think of him on a stage with david attenborough speaking to the world, who is going to be against that? so it will be a matter of form. and, weirdly, everything we know about his opinions might actually conceivably stand him in goodstead. >> so you pointed out his approval ratings, let's be honest, are a lot below 50. the last one i saw it was at 18 or 20%, whereas william is at 60

or 70. do you think that kind of thing affects -- it must have an affect, to have this feeling that -- i think he's less popular than all three of william's children. >> yes, i think certainly charles felt that. he felt he was a sincere man whose really efforts didn't come across. and certainly, i think, he'll be thrilled by all this joyous reception, and particularly the joyous reception of camilla. it's always very important to him that she is queen when the eve of the queen -- >> camilla is very popular. >> you think how the queen made it clear on the eve of the 70 years of her excession that camilla would be queen. he has repeatedly referred to her in his speeches. i think she will be heartened by this enthusiasm. but i think charles has a lot on his plate. we are in a difficult world crisis with ukraine. the country is also heading into a possible economic crisis, heating, energy crisis. and the possibility that some countries may wish to -- they

are saying that opening the conversation, jamaica, australia, about no longer having the monarch as head of state. barbados did last year. we may see others say we wish to be a republic. and things are changing. and it's the monarch's role, i think, to make clear that these are decisions of the people he cannot interfere. >> i agree with you, simon. a lot of the things he said have been incredibly, you know, wise, even on urban planning he was decades before his time. the question i have for you is finally -- and we have about a minute -- is this is britain's greatest soft power, it seems to me, that the monarchy and the bbc is can it use the soft power? >> i think the opportunity is there really. look all around us. people have come from all over the world because there is something extraordinary actually about a power that is not about political advantage. people are desperate all over the world, i think, for a kind

of global citizenship that is not a zero-sum game, that is not just simply about self-advancement. so the possibility to actually exercise some sort of moral authority is really promising. will it happen? we'll see. >> sir simon, kate, pleasure to have you guys on. this was such a fascinating conversation. next on "gps," we will take you to kyiv, the capital of ukraine. i was there earlier this week for an exclusive interview with the man of the hour, president volodymyr zelenskyy. (gasping) ♪ - hey honey. - hey dad. that smell could be eight million odor causing bacteria. good thing adding lysol laundry sanizer kill99.9% of bacteria that detergents can't.

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this has been a major week for ukraine as it made extraordinary, unexpected strides, pushing back against the russian invaders. just yesterday, ukrainian forces entered the city of izyum in the country's east, causing russian forces to flee. ukraine's troops are also fighting a counteroffensive in the southern region of kherson. the ukrainian defense minister said on saturday that his country's allies were amazed by the successes of his troops. zelenskyy said that ukraine had retaken some 700 square miles of territory this month. moscow claims its military is simply regrouping. well, i was in kyiv this week and had an exclusive interview on friday with president zelenskyy about the counteroffensive, his russian enemy, and much more. we met for the interview not in a dark bunker but at the

marinsky palace. it was president zelenskyy's first interview there since the war began. president zelenskyy, a pleasure to see you again. >> thank you so much. it's great to meet you. >> reporter: the last time we did an interview in person was one year ago in kyiv. and i remember the most important issue for our safety was we had to stay 6 feet apart because of covid. now it's a different world. for you, what has -- if you were to summarize what this year has been for you, how would you describe it? >> translator: you said that the year passed, and actually i have a feeling that it's a completely different page from a completely different history book.

at that time, the gravest danger was covid. well, covid is still the problem in some of the countries, more or less. but the full-fledged war of russia against ukraine has completely washed all those troubles with a big wave. the priorities of our country have changed for me personally and for each citizen in this country, certain issues that were for them before, they became in clear focus and the most important. values and targets became two poles. and i believe the whole world is now between the same values and goals. ukraine is definitely now fighting for those values. >> mr. president, let me ask you about the battle right now.

it does appear that ukraine is moving forward in kherson in other parts of the east. is this the beginning of a campaign to roll back the russian invasion of february 24th? >> translator: you know that our goal is to deoccupy our whole territory. the main goal is deoccupation. we just cannot allow russia to continue the same occupation that they started back in 2014. now they invaded some more, now a pause, freezing of the conflict, some agreements, negotiations, then time passes, they become stronger, and then they keep moving forward again. well, first of all, setting ultimate conditions, and you meet them or we will keep invading. so that's their strategy.

the gradual, very slow dinner -- dining, they are eating you piecemeal bit by bit. russian cannibalism, i would call it this way. and i don't want to play this game. i don't like this. i cannot tell you right now all the details about certain operational plans, but you understand what i'm talking about. we will not be standing still. we will be slowly, gradually moving forward. we will not be talking to them. as soon as we stop and stay still, and i know certain countries will be pushing us

towards process, i want the world to recognize there's one thing, a diplomatic solution, and then minsk 2, 3, 5, 10. minsk is an empty paper to allow russia to rest before the next phase of the invasion. >> do you think this war can end with vladimir putin still running russia? >> translator: most likely depends on him only in this particular point of time, it might well be that he will still be leading the country while the war's over. in principle, i believe for him that's the only chance to get out of this situation. there is no other way for him out of this. everything will be over after him, and then the big question to the whole world will be when

this time after him would come. >> would you negotiate with him at some point? >> translator: not today. i don't see any willingness on their side to be constructive. as to their ultimatums, well, i don't care who sets those ultimatums, who or somebody else. that's my principle, i will not talk to those who set those ultimatums to me. this is an agreement that will reach after they leave our territories, yes, then afterwards in order to recognize that russia still would have borders with us. it's our neighbor with huge

populations. so after we occupy our country one way or another, we would still have to live as neighbors. >> next on "gps," we will turn to ukraine's biggest benefactor, the united states. i ask president zelenskyy if he worries that american politics may cause that generosity to dry up. would a republican-controlled house of representatives offer less money, less aid? hear his answer, when we come back. secret had ph balancing minerals; and itit helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. so pull it in clclose. secret works. oh ms. flores, what would we do without you? leader of many, and pet wrangler too. you report to your boss, every afternoon. so beautiful. soecoming a student again might seem impossible. but what if a school could be tre for all of you? career, family, finances and mental health.

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and every vote so far -- i think i'm right -- the republicans supporting ukraine have declined. if the republicans take the house of representatives, which is the power of the purse, that's where the money comes from, do you worry that this american aid will slow down or stop? and what would be your message to the house republicans? >> translator: first of all, i would like to immediately say that i'm grateful to president biden and the white house and the bipartisan support because they are leaders in size and volume. without this support, we will not be able to return our lands. and i recognize that myself, and i'm quite candid about this. and i recognize their leadership position on those matters. i know and hear the messages

that you just brought up that the representatives of the republican party might happen. so they would be supporting ukraine less. i want to believe that bipartisan support will remain strong and steadfast. for us, that's extremely important. how we act in this war, by fighting, i am ready to meet politicians. and i'm quite open to provide the opportunities to the wide world to make everything possible not to weaken the support of ukraine. because otherwise russia can win this fight. and that will be the tragedy of the 21st century. it's extremely important for me that if there are certain political trends and if they send signals that there is some weakening of our support or supporting the russian side, we

will communicate this immediately because we will help to defend the funds of the taxpayers, of the people of the united states. they need to know that those funds are being spent to fight for those values. >> you know donald trump, and you've talked to him a lot. we in fact in previous interviews have talked about those famous phone calls. he's always said nice things about vladimir putin. even after the invasion of ukraine, i think he said he's a genius. what do you think he doesn't understand about putin? what will you tell donald trump to help him understand the putin you see? >> translator: i believe he had enough time, plenty of time, to understand who putin is. i think he was sitting at such a

high position where it's not even possible not to recognize that he is the opponent in terms of values to your own people. and he has all the might of this country, intelligence data, to create psychological profile, and thus in this position you need to understand who putin is, what he's driving at and what steps he will make to get there. so i was surprised that even after the beginning with the full-fledged invasion, donald trump mentioned things that you just said. i believe that he needs to look at this not only from the standpoint that this is a threat to ukraine. well, ukraine, in his eyes, is too far away. but this war has no distances it cannot cover.

so i believe he needs to look at this situation without, as we say, painted glasses on. i don't know, probably he needed this to promote his domestic policy, to show that he's ready to find understanding with the president of russia. >> to the west, is your message, do not lift the sanctions until the complete deoccupation of russia? because, as you know, lots of people by next year in the west will be talking about relaxation of sanctions, if not only. >> translator: no. we cannot lift any sanctions. we cannot agree with russia now. we cannot discuss the substance with russia until they get out of our territory. afterwards, yeah, we can start talking about the sanction, policy, lifting certain sanctions. we can talk about reparations.

we can talk about the monetary payments from them, diplomacy, dialogue. yes, we can involve the presidents of all of the countries and institutions and involve in those discussions anyone from the russian side. but after they vacate our territory because that's the new page of the history would start from there. >> we don't know the losses on the ukrainian military side, ukraine, the government doesn't release them. but it is tens of thousands. can you go on? can you fight if this goes on for years? >> translator: we have no other way. and it's not our weakness. i believe it's our strength. because russia does have a way out. they can go back home. we have this home to defend.

where could we leave our home? nowhere. that's why the question is not how much more victims. it's how much more victims will we have to have to win? >> but you will keep fighting to the end? >> translator: yes. next on "gps," president zelenskyy and i go for a walk outside. sounds normal, but nothing is normal in war. we know zelenskyy is a marked man. is he afraid? i ask him. verizon has business-grade internet solutions nationwide. (wayne) for our not-so-small business too. (vo) get internet that keeps your business ready for anyththing. frfrom the network america relis on.

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after i finished the main interview with president zelenskyy, we decided to go outside for a walk.

now that is a bold move for a man who knows russia has marked him as target number one of its invasion. take a look. so i feel like every time i've talked to you in the past, you've been in a bunker. here we are, we did the interview in the presidential palace, on the grounds. is this a confidence that putin can't hit you here? >> nobody knows where he wants to push rocket. nobody, i think, understand it until they begin to do. this morning and in the night, the rockets can come from even bell russia -- from russia, occupied. it doesn't matter for me because what -- we can't be afraid of

him and i'm not afraid. >> this is probably target number one. we know that he's been trying to kill you, and here you are in the presidential palace. >> yes, but i'm like, you know -- first of all, i'm not sitting here. that is for you and for leaders, and so i'm not here. i'm in my office. >> of course. not the bunker. >> upstairs, downstairs, yes. when we hear signals, we have to, like, bunkers. >> and there are still sirens in kyiv. >> yes, yes. all the territory of ukraine. sometimes it goes through kyiv to other territories, but our systems, anti-rocket systems, are working so the rocket can't come to the capital anyway. they shoot because the idea is

to shoot each day to house for people to be afraid and run. run, that means no economy, no business, no relations. now kyiv, of course people are afraid because nobody wants to die. it's okay. it's normal. i think we -- we are ready to live in this case, in this variant -- >> in this circumstance. >> circumstance. we are ready because our soldiers are in more difficult situations. all the money we have, we give money to our soldiers. all money we have. of course also to medicine and to teachers which also on the frontline because they have to teach children. >> do you think when you look

back, when you started the campaign for president, you are somebody who comes out of tv. you are a writer, a producer, you have to be a wartime president. i think when i look at you i think you have two qualities that seem to have prepared you very well. one is your communication. you're a great communicator, but the other is courage. you didn't run away, but nobody in your government ran away. >> no. the main thing is to have real honest people. nobody was -- it's how to prepare to the war, how to p prepare your character. so for today our people, we are ready for the war. but i think, i hope we will not have next war. i hope so. >> from a new king to a very uncertain war, there's a sense

we are truly living through history. thanks to all of you for being part of our program from london and kyiv this week. i will see you next week. (gasping) ♪ welcome to allstate where the safer you drive, the more you save like rachel here how am i looking? looking good! am i there? no keegoing how's that? i'll say wn now? is that good? lots of cars have backup cameras now you know those are for amateurs there we go like a glove, girl (phone chimes) safe driving and drivewise can save you 40% with allstate click or call for a quote today

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♪ hello, everyone. thank you so much for joining me this sunday. i'm fredricka whitfield. we begin this hour with the arrival of the queen's coffin in the scottish capital