the podcast. you can find it on apple podcasts, wherever you listen to podcasts. i started recording alone while packing up my mother's apartment after her death, and it's a process we'll all go through, as is grief. i realize people don't talk much about it, and that adds to the loneliness of it. loss and grief are among the most universal of human experiences. they're a bond we all share. the second episode will go online next week. i hope you'll give it a listen. that's it for us. the news continues. let's hand it over to laura let's hand it over to laura coates and "cnn tonight". -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> anderson, i loved the first episode. it resonates and there are moments i'm so glad you went there. i think everyone should get to know you from that side as well. thinking about how personable and wonderful you are, but to have that idea and know you in that dimension in a way that relates to everyone was really, really powerful. >> thank you. i appreciate it. everyone, i'm laura coates and this is "cnn tonight."

look, if you thought that the backlash coming from martha's vineyard would lead to an apology from a florida governor, you probably haven't been paying attention. no, the governor behind the surprise delivery did not apologize. he's doubling down, as is texas governor greg abbott, after he bussed dozens of migrants to vice president harris' home in washington, d.c., all to protest president biden's immigration policies, or frankly what they criticize as the lack thereof any kind of policy. now, both are further defending their actions tonight, as the migrants that were flown to martha's vineyard two days ago unexpectedly were transported yet again, this time taken voluntarily to joint base camp cape cod where approximately 50 are being offered temporary shelter. this is in a word, temporary.

125 national guard members are being activated to assist in the relief efforts, and in a moment you're going to hear from two immigration relief lawyers helping them through this confusing ordeal. one was in the vineyard this morning with these migrants. the white house, for their part, is blasting governors abbott and desantis for using kids and mothers and others fleeing as, quote, political pawns, accusing them of misleading them about where they were even headed. >> these are the kind of tactics we see from smugglers. >> it's quite a statement. and this migrant tells cnn that he and others were misled. >> well, we didn't know until last minute our destination, such as new york, where our relatives reside, he says. came with, as i say, the idea of reuniting with them.

>> but florida's governor says, no, no, no, there was no deception of any kind. he actually says the undocumented immigrants had been treated great. >> not only do they give them a release form to sign, they actually give them a packet and in that packet included a map of martha's vineyard. so, it's obvious that that's where they were going. they were given a ride. they were given everything. that's just the humane thing to do. what's not humane is what biden is doing. he's giving a false promise the border is open, luring people to come here for political purposes and then basically cutting these people loose and leaving them high and dry. >> now, oh, what's that, you ask? that's the map. that's the map they were actually given. can't you tell by the fact there's a big red line that goes from texas to massachusetts? wasn't it obvious where they were going?

i feel as though i've seen this map before, maybe something along the lines of what my third grader may have done in a version of social studies, if they even call that the class any longer. well, the other one you're seeing is a map of martha's vineyard. but at the top, it just says, welcome to massachusetts. and remember, these are migrants on a long and stressful journey from venezuela, many had not even heard of martha's vineyard or perhaps even massachusetts. and for those of you who don't realize, of course, it's a ferry or a plane because it's basically an island. so, how is one getting off is probably the next question you're probably wondering about. and as you heard, some thought they were actually going to new york. now, the governor of florida vows that this is just the beginning. and florida will continue to transport the undocumented to so-called sanctuary cities. we've heard this a lot and we've

heard it before. we'll likely hear it again. and the response has varied. and there are so many questions about how he and the texas governor, greg abbott, went about their decision-making process and these missions from the planes to the buses. i mean, you just heard the white house compare this all to tactics of human smugglers, very strong words. and you're sure to get a reaction i'm sure any moment. and it raises a question as to whether all of this is even truly legal, let alone questions about who might be footing the bill. governor abbott rejects the idea he's done anything wrong, let alone illegal. and in fact he pins the tail of blame on the party of the, well, political donkey. >> what is inhumane is the president's policies that have led his border with mexico to be declared the deadliest border crossing in the entire world. what we've done in the state of

texas is follow the law to the tee to make sure that everything that we've done comports with the federal law. we receive written authorization by everybody that we transport that they agree to exactly what we are doing. there's been zero people that texas has misled. >> zero people that texas has misled. the prosecutor in me wants to test whether that in fact is true. so, let's take that to someone who was just with the migrants flown to martha's vineyard just this very morning. here with us as well is immigration attorney allen orr, a former president of the american immigration lawyer's association. i'm very glad you're both here. i'm still a little bit stunned by the map that was put on the screen, this idea of a red line from texas to massachusetts. telling people, here's where you're going. the bigger question people have, aside from the optics of this, i

want to start with you marianne here, because you were on the ground in martha's vineyard. you've spoken to many of the people who have been transported this way. i wonder what the impression they had as to where they were going and why they were there. do you have any idea? >> yes, laura, well, actually, lawyers for civil rights has been on the ground at st. andrew's church since yesterday morning, including myself. and what we're hearing from folks on the -- the affected individuals is that, you know, they were induced. they were told promises that they would find employment, that they would find permanent housing, that they -- that this whole ordeal would not affect their immigration proceedings at all. and as you were mentioning earlier, many people were told that they were going to one location and really halfway through the trip, they were told that they were actually headed to an island off the coast of

massachusetts. i think it's a little disingenuous to expect people who have just set foot on u.s. soil to know the geography of the united states, such that they were entering through the u.s. border in texas and that they should be expected to know where massachusetts is and even more so where martha's vineyard is. >> i mean, even the part of that point, allen, i mean, we think about this. there is a process. i mean, there is a whole field of law. obviously you specialize in. we know this quite well. immigration law. there's a whole process by which when somebody is arriving, as an asylum seeker, the idea of the responsibility to have to appear for court hearings, going through the process, the idea of having to be in the location they're supposed to be in. all the things are happening. what is the risk that you see of

having the people who have entered this way in this process transported to areas they might not be able to leave from without the assistance from the government? >> right. so, this is the complete system failure because what we've already heard is that actual border control put false addresses on their notices to appear, which are the documents that tell the courts where they're located to recommunicate to these individuals to follow up on their cases. there's error number one on the federal level. and moving them away from jurisdictions removes them from the legal providers that are able to help them matriculate through the system. it's a bad thing because when they don't show up in court, their case is dismissed and removed in absentia. and their primary language is not english and it may not be spanish in many cases, to be able to matriculate throughout system without legal representation. >> it seems as though it's setting up for failure for a variety of reasons. if they have the wrong address, they can't be communicated with.

they don't know the process when they're getting here. they're going to have a deportation warrant issued, and if they fail to appear, then their chance of being able to maintain the legal process may be fatally compromised. and on that point of the language barrier that might exist for some who have come, do we know if the paperwork they were handed that told them about where they were going according to the governor, was it in english? was nit spanish? do we know? >> the information that they received was predominantly in english. and just to the point that you were saying earlier, i do want to add that that was especially alarming because many individuals were given a sheet or a form to request an address change. but it was the wrong form to begin with. the form that they received was to change the address in immigration court. and that's something that these individuals don't necessarily need at that juncture in their immigration proceeding. so, that was extremely alarming and disorienting for a lot of

individuals. you know, in addition to the fact that they have the language barrier but now they're thousands of miles away from the office that they were supposed to attend these check-in appointments and all of these hearings. >> so, what does that mean in terms of possible, if any, legal exposure for those who have facilitated this process for them to be transported? i mean, allen, i think about the ways in which obviously there's a political discussion that's happening. the lawyers within of course think about is there any legal challenges that could be mounted against this process? are you seeing any red flags here that would signal to you that a law may have to be investigated as being broken? >> yes. and at first i want to say this issue is bigger than 50 people at martha's vineyard or the couple hundred that were presented before the vice president's home. we're talking about 9,000 immigrants so far that have been shipped out of texas alone. it's a big national problem for us to sort of address and

actually a global problem because these are nationals of other countries, and we should not be treating foreign nationals that way. there are lawyers saying this violates our civil rights laws because they're specifically targeting foreign nationals and specifically people of hispanic origin during national hispanic month as well as we've already seen the abbott program of the lone star enforcement program, their own immigration system they set up in texas under review by the department of justice. what we see now is an attack on federalism and the way immigration has been administered in this country for years. >> marianne, albert, eleanor, we'll have to see what happens next. of course you're right. this is much bigger than the individual cases we're seeing from this week alone. this is a growing problem. >> correct. >> and political and otherwise. we'll have to see what happens. i certainly don't want this to be the continued reflection of who we say we are. thank you so much.

>> thank you. >> thank you. we're going to continue the conversation in just a moment. but i do want to let you know, speaking of the law, there are some new developments in about the mar-a-lago documents case. the doj is now asking an appellate court to appeal -- appeal court to intervene. jessica, it's a friday night which means there must be a legal filing of some kind. we're so used to this. tell me what happened. >> well, you know, the doj promised that they would appeal the judge's ruling by the end of the week. here we are. friday night. 9:00 p.m. and they have appealed. you know, they are basically doing this not full throttle. they're really asking for some limited relief here. they're basically cutting right to the chase and saying, look 11th circuit, we only want two things. so, i'll read from this appeal to tell you exactly what they want. it says although the government believes the district court fundamentallyered in appointing a special master and granting

relief, the government seeks a stay only on the portions of the order causing serious and immediate harm to the government by restricting the government's review and documents and resquaring disclosure of records. they're asking for two things here. they're saying, look, we should be able to continue our ongoing criminal investigation into these classified documents because remember it was judge aileen cannon at the district court level in florida that put the brakes on that, saying, look, while the special master review is ongoing, you cannot use those 100 classified documents in your ongoing investigation. the doj is saying this is going to cause us irrepairable harm and we need to be able to move forward with this. the second thing is they've been told they have to disclose the classified information during the special master review. and they're saying that this is also going to harm the process here, possibly harm national

security by letting the special master take a look at all of these classified documents. so, those are the two things they're asking for. they're not appealing the district court's judge in full, but they are asking for these two immediate steps from the 11th circuit. so, we'll see what the court does here. as we noted in the past, six of the 11 judges on the 11th circuit are trump appointees. so, there will be probably a three-member panel that will take a look at this appeal and we'll see how fast it moves. you know, in addition, there was one note at the end of this appeal that kind of took a shot at the district court judge, aileen cannon. the doj wrote in this courts in the past have exercised great caution before interfering through civil actions with criminal investigations and cases. the doj is -- what the judge has done here, that she has stepped

in in a civil action to put the br brakes on their criminal investigation. at this point, laura, that's what the donlj is trying to get cured here. they want to go back to their investigation, and they want to be able to use all of the material to move forward with this. >> so, really important developments. there was the notice they said they would file a notice of appeal. now it's here. but what a calculated risk to think about the amount of time it might take to resolve this issue. appeals are not known as the most expeditious process. we'll see what they do. jessica, thank you so much. now, look, we're going to stay on that and we're going to give you more information back. it's really something if you think about ballooning, the idea you don't want people to see these documents. now just think of all of the hands and the eyes that are now going to be touching and seeing these documents. and look, when it comes to shipping off human beings, this whole political conversation is -- well, it's not necessarily a new tactic. come with me on a trip back in time. i'm going to tell you about

something that happened in our own american history not too long ago that's being compared to the very thing that's happening today. our conversation continues next. ♪ my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 2 system. with a painless, one-second scan i know my glucose numbers thout fingersticks. now m managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free at freestylelibre.us ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa

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priceline. every trip is a big deal. look, the scenes we're seeing in martha's vineyard strike too familiar a chord. one person here in washington, d.c. and new york and in a bus after being stranded, people in the middle of chicago as well, it's really all over the country. and they echo something that happened some 60 years of our past. back to something called the reverse freedom rides. maybe you've never heard of what this is. you've certainly heard of freedom riders, right?

but certainly the freedom rides in the reverse, when black families were tricked by white supremacists. they were lured by the promise of a job or a better home, and they were bussed to massachusetts right near john f. kennedy's holiday home. the numbers wracked up put the segregationists of that dark period, well, frankly to shame in the numbers alone. now, the reverse freedom riders, they tricked about 200 people into getting on a bus. 199, maybe even 200, far too many. well, today's republicans have moved more than t 9,000 people and are promising more. joining me now, the table tonight are ashley alison for a member of the biden/harris campaign, april ryann, and former republican congressman and host of "the white flag" podcast, joe walsh. most people haven't heard the story of reverse freedom riders

and what this looks like. obviously white supremacy had its own place in our contemporary world and in the past. what's happening here is political, undoubtedly. and the idea that it's being used as a way to bait the conversation i think among democrats in particular to me seems very plain. what do you make of the idea? are you seeing some innocent explanation which says, look, biden, what are you going to do about it? or is it, hm, put your politics and resources where your -- are. >> it's no surprise that we're about 50 days out from a midterm election, so this is political theater. governor abbott and governor desantis actually wanted to help these immigrants and migrants. they would have maybe called the mayor of chicago or notified people in massachusetts or notified people in our nation's capital. they didn't do that. they're using money, taxpayer

money, $12 million, desantis, and he does not see them as human beings. they don't want to be bothered with them. they don't feel like they deserve the humanity and dignity this country has offered so many. >> the way you began that makes me think that's where it's been for a century, the idea of huh had you actually had pure motivations and th e idea that -- to. our asylum seeking system is broken.

but back up for a moment. think about what a governor of one of our states did two days ago. he lied to 50 people to get them on a plane. and as your earlier segment, laura, made clear, desantis sabotaged their asylum seeking process, by sending them off to another jurisdiction. i mean, that just -- that blinds us all to this serious discussion we should be having. it's so cruel. >> and that's the point. every time we see these issues of inhumanity to migrants, there's always a serious discussion and it falls off. let's not just leave it here at joe biden. let's go back to the prior president. what happened? people in cages. >> that's right. >> people in cages. the inhumanity about that. there was a bluster about that. what happened? then. what was it last year? a bluster then. >> the haitians were under the bridge. >> yes, yes. inhumanity once again. the story that you had. i mean, the immigration issue in

this country is older than i am old. and we still continue to get upset. but where is the -- now what's happening? you're sending people to an enclave, an enclave of multiple dollar homes and there's no infrastructure to keep them. >> the point was to -- the point really was it felt like here is a place. it wasn't just chicago any longer or new york city. >> it wasn't a city. six towns. six towns. but the issue is the bluster happens and then it dies off. the system is broken and the people who are impacted are people who are underserved, who need help, and who are seeking asylum for whatever reason, looking to this country for help. and yet they're being used. >> interestingly enough in florida, if you're talking about migrants and asylum seekers more broadly, if we think about it as a broad concept and go to florida, the data is since october 1st, the u.s. coast

guard has interdict ed 5,154 cubans compared to 838 last year and 49 in 2020, which meanss there a surge that's happening right now. but it's the venezuelans that he's opting to do so to remove and intercept in texas. there's a political notion then. >> he went to texas to find 50 migrants. >> yeah. >> the governor of florida. i mean, that's just idiotically political. look, our border states have been undersiege for a while. you're right, april, through multiple administrations. but this isn't leadership. this is just appealing to his base to get them out and vote. >> is it idiotic -- i hear your point. is it idiotic or strategic? it does have joe biden and the administration -- president joe biden and the administration now having the perception among some that people talk about it, as if he were flat footed and not thinking about it and now reacting to what's happening.

does that optical statement, is that problematic? >> i think democrats have the moral high ground here. and they have to be intentional and have a talk about this. he got $12 million in his state budget. imagine what he could actually have done to help these people in his home state if he put as much energy as to getting them out of a different state and turned his eyes to figuring out within his state. and then you see, you hear about the volunteers and communities in martha's vineyard, in washington, d.c., the churches. and when we have family separation and kids were in cages separated from their family, people rose to the occasion. we can fix this problem. the problem is the folks in power in washington, d.c., some democrats and some republicans, are not finding the right solution. >> we will see what happens and what those solutions look like. it's something that's been inherited. it did not begin with the inaugural address of joe biden nor donald trump. and it's a longer standing problem. here we are today. everyone stick around. we're coming right back to you.

and also some republican states have moved to restrict transgender rights. i'll tell you about some developments in a culture wars battle in the state of montana that one could argue is yet t another example of p people bei used as pawns in that culture war. next. new astepro allergy. now available without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid free spray. while other allergy sprays take hours astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can... astepro and go.

you've heard the old adage that all politics the local, right? lately it seems like maybe all politics is actually personal, about abortion rights and the overturning of roe v. wade, about immigration, and people being used as pawns to score political points. you can probably add in the military and what happened a few weeks ago. and in montana, about trans people and their about to change their own birth certificate. five years ago a trans person in the state just had to fill out a form. last year, a law passed saying that had to have had a gender affirming surgery to be able to change their birth certificate. and now it's even frankly more drastic. a trans person can't change their certificate at all outside of maybe a clerical error or a mistake. that new rule was blocked by a judge, by the way, but the state said yesterday it could have defied that order because i

guess court decisions don't mean quite ch is. we've seen that someplace before. how did it change so drastically in only five years? let's take it to our guests who are back here with me now. you think about where we are. it's no surprise we've got culture wars everywhere. you've got discussions that are talked about as if they are completely universally pervasive and target different solutions to say this is the solution or this is the problem. the us versus themes. is it a winning discussion? >> yes, for republicans it is. i hate to say it but i come from the world of right wing media. and if we're talking about the transgender issue or even, laura, if we're talking about immigration, republicans believe that helps them because most americans, i think, do understand our immigration system is broken. most americans think republicans are demagoguing the issue, but democrats aren't addressing that. republicans think that that helps them. >> is he right? >> no. no. we're in a world right now where

pronouns lead everything, how about that? and we cannot sit here and watch this moment and not think about pronoun, everybody goes by a pronoun. but then you have the community that is rising up, taking stands after they have been told, you cannot go to school, your children cannot go to school if they say they're in this community, or i'm not going to give you lunch because you're in the community. there's so many things that continue to pile upon this community that is now finding its way. but at the same time, when the republican party is talking about we don't want same sex marriage and you've got a supreme court justice talking about we need to deal with this, this is an issue. and then when we talk about all of this joe biden, president joe biden just had this was it united we stand conference this week at the white house on this very issue. is this hate or is this politics? >> one could argue by virtue of them having continued

discussion, he believes it's a winning argument for republicans. >> i think its depends on where you are. we have to be -- i'm from ohio and sometimes i talk to people and they don't lead with pronouns actually. and they're like, what? i remember having a conversation with people -- >> they have people in ohio. >> there's some. >> ohio is not a monolith, okay? for all of our viewers, we respect the diversity and respect every state. >> yes. >> so, but i do think there are still some very conservative areas. we see in florida, yet again, governor desantis, with the don't say gay bill, doing a lot of aggressive work to try and block access to trans children in schools being able to play in sports or being able to be in certain classrooms. >> yeah. >> he's not in a run away election either because of some of that behavior. so, i think it depends -- i think if -- voters are struggling right now. and the top issue that they want to talk about is not about transgender children.

and if you -- >> exactly. >> -- want to lead with that -- >> exactly. >> i'm not saying lead with that. >> no, no, no. >> i'm not saying lead with that, but as you said, politics is personal. and if you were in the community or if you have someone in the community, you think of that. you can -- and this is part of the problem why the system some say has been broken for so long is because so many people are left outside of the system. what happens to those people who say pronouns? what happens to those people that kemp in georgia doesn't want to have lunch if they're in a community? there's so many different states that are now targeting in different ways the lgbtq plus community. and they say, look, we are people too. >> absolutely. i agree with you. >> and they're allowed to have, this is what this said. we are allowed to have our rights just as well as anyone else. >> you're right, but these issues animate republican voters. laura, the other thing about montana is, a judge said no. >> yeah. >> and montana republicans said -- >> yes. >> we'll ignore that judge.

>> right. >> this is what they have learned from trump, to just ignore the rule of law, ignore the court. that to me is the much scarier aspect. >> thank you. >> let's have a kumbaya moment. let's all hold hands. let's all hold hands. there will be s'mores for us later. >> oh, my goodness. >> i will say taking a step back on all this, from immigration and talking about pronoun use, is the visceral reaction to a changing america. >> completely. >> and whether it's the discussion of the browning of america or otherwise, that's what we see in the talk about this. joe walsh, thank you. ashley and april, stick around. we're going to hold hands out wow. as the january 6th committttee returns to work, jake tapper joins me w with his cnn special report. he's got exclusive interviews with key witnesses, including some you haven't heard from outside the committee hearings up next.

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for decades, i've worked at the intersection of domestic violence and homelessness. so when prop 27 promised solutions to homelessness, i took a good, hard look. it's not a solution. 90% of the money goes to the out-of-state corporations who wrote it. very little is left for the homeless. don't let corporations exploit homelessness to pad their profits. vote no on 27. i had experienced being in shelters at a young age. having nothing. prostituting. we don't choose this life. i never knew what safe was until i came to city of refugee. people that's coming through these doors are trying to break the cycle. prop 27 will help provide more funding

for places like this and help people get off the streets. it feels good to have a place to call home. support prop 27. the january 6th committee meets today to plan, well, the rest of its schedule. and members are making very clear their work is not done. they've been piecing together testimony from more than a thousand witnesses along with video and texts and emails and other documents. but one new piece of evidence just released yesterday is audio

from a walkie talkie app used by members of the oath keepers who were inside the capitol that day, and other providing intel from elsewhere. here they are responding in realtime to this, this 2:38 p.m. tweet from then-president trump telling rioters to stay peaceful. >> trump just tweeted, please support our capitol police. they are on our side. do not harm them. >> that's saying a lot by what he didn't say. he didn't say not to do anything to the congressmen. >> well, he did not ask them to stand down. he just said, stand by the capitol police. they are on our side and they are good people. so, it's getting real down there. i've got it on tv, and it's -- it's looking pretty freaking radical to me. >> more than an hour and a half,

an hour and a half, passed between that tweet and when the former president told the rioters he loved them but to go home. jake tapper is examining the evidence in his new special "american coup" premiering here on sunday night at 9:00 p.m. here's a preview. >> when the president finally relented and released a video telling the rioters to go home, it was 4:17 p.m., three hours and seven minutes since the riot began. >> we had an election that was stolen from us. it was a landslide election, and everyone knows it. >> seeing him on camera start the video by talking about a stolen election, i just immediately know that he wasn't going to meet the moment and say what was needed in that time. >> so, go home. we love you. you're very special. >> yet again, many rioters took the president's words as instructions. >> delivering the president's

message -- >> working in communications for him, i knew that i would be tasked with defending that. and we had just witnessed all this violence at the capitol and these folks attacking police officers, chanting horrible things. and i knew that i couldn't defend that because it was indefensible. i resigned that evening. >> jake tapper joins me now. wow, i mean, just thinking about that is so obvious, jake, just the weight that the former president's words had on his supporters. i wonder what the committee has made of not only what he said, but as that clip points out from that incredible special report, the words he chose not to say. >> that's such an important point because it has been said in the past that donald trump, during the three hours and seven minutes of the riot, before he put out that statement, that he didn't do anything.

but that's not actually accurate, right? he was purposefully refusing. he was watching and enjoying. it wasn't that he was sitting back there and he didn't know what was going on. he knew what was going on and he liked it. and that is one of the things that we've learned from the january 6 committee hearings. and there's so much else we hope to really bring -- shine the light on what they have found, the evidence, the testimony, and also we hope to add to it too by doing our own interviews with sara matthews, the former trump white house press secretary, richard donahue, the former trump justice department deputy attorney general, rusty bowers and liz cheney and adam kinzinger and so many more so that you're learning what evidence has been brought out in a comprehensive, singular place, but also why it matters and what it shows. and i hope the documentary really brings that home for people. >> you've got to watch the special program, the special

report by our own jake tapper. it's called "american coup." it premieres this sunday, 9:00 p.m. and coming up, the new star of "the little mermaid" is bringing so much joy to children across the country, months before the movie even hits the theaters. and we've got the video to prove itit. but those poor unfortunate racist trorolls are trying to spoil all the fun. their fishy argument next. so we fit your standards, and it's guaranteed for life. when you can trust the people who create your new bath, it just fits. bath fitter. visit bathfitter.com to book your free consultation.

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thanks for watching. don lemon tonight starts right now. hey, don lemon. >> hello. look at all that. fuchsia and glowing on a friday evening. >> this look? >> this old thing? were you just posing? was that a model pose? >> it was a catalog pose. i'm not really a model. but you know what? i want to know what your favorite disney movie was. first of all, what character you would have played in a disney movie of your choice. i know you can sing, so i know it would be a musical. which one?