does not amount to "the art of the deal." it's the art of the steal. letitia james filed a sweeping lawsuit not just against donald trump but three of his adult children and the trump organization as a whole. james alleges they were all involved in a staggering fraud scheme lasting over a decade so the former president could enrich himself. they stand accused of lying to lenders, lying to insurance brokers, lying to tax officials,

and more. >> ma nipulated the value of records. insurance fraud. each statement was personally certified as accurate my mr. trump. the pattern of fraud and deception that was used by mr. trump at the trump organization for their own financial benefit is astounding. and it is all in stark violation of the law. >> james claims there are possible violations of state and federal laws but her office lacks authority to file criminal charges, so she referred her findings to the federal prosecutors in manhattan and the irs. what she's seeking is in this particular suit is to have donald trump pay a $250 million judgment, a ban on the trump's running any new york businesses for good, and to ban donald trump and the trump organization from buying commercial real estate in new york for five years. donald trump has responded by

lashing out at james personally and professionally saying, in part, in his new social media post. he says, quote, another witch hunt by what he calls a racist attorney general and called letitia james a fraud. a spokesperson for the trump organization added that it's all part of a political vendetta. the details of the case, however, are laid out in a 222-page filing. so, to help us break down the specifics of trump's alleged schemes, we have a team of cnn reporters outside some of the former president's most well-known buildings. >> reporter: hi sara, i'm outside trump tower in midtown. the new york attorney general claims donald trump not only inflated the value but also the size of his own apartment in the building, claiming it was 30,000 square feet when it was less than 11,000. the lawsuit alleges in 2015 that inflated the value of the property to $327 million.

at the time, no apartment in new york city, even brand-new ones, had ever sold for even a third of that price. >> i'm omar jiminez in trump international tower in chicago. it's one of the tallest buildings in the u.s. and six months ago the penthouse reportedly sold for $20 million. since it opened in 2009, the building's value has been left off of trump organization statements. the a.g. points out that in donald trump's sworn testimony, he wanted it that way. he wanted to keep it off the books because to the irs the building was listed at worthless. yet, less than three years after it opened, it was listed, the lawsuit says, as collateral in a $107 million loan. >> i'm joe johns at the old post office here in washington, d.c., a building the trump organization never actually owned. but they did have a ground lease.

a congressional investigation found this hotel lost $71 million in almost four years. and yet the letitia james lawsuit claims the $100 million profit donald trump received when he sold that lease in may was the result of lies made to secure the construction loan. >> and there are many more like that in the lawsuit. here to dig deeper into the legal and political fallout is nick ackerman, former u.s. assi assistant attorney general. russ, i want to start with you. this is a lawsuit three years in the making. we heard details of it earlier on when letitia james was just looking at this. but you've been following trump's personal finances even before we heard about all of this. what do you make of this very long, detailed, 220-page filing? >> well, i think it's a big problem for the trump

organization. and i think it really shows how they have taken businesses from what we saw in the tax returns that regularly lost money, that required constant infusion of cash, and then pumped up the value of those businesses. and then all of that combined, the things they did were crazy where they're saying that rent controlled apartments and an appraiser told them were $750,000 they value at $50 million. they say golf course memberships they're giving away are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. all of that builds this gigantic mountain where they go to deutsche bank and say he's worth $2.5 billion, you should give him the lowest interest rate and highest amount of loan money they can come up with. that's a massive fraud and it's going to have great effects throughout the organization. and i think also it's going to go a lot of different ways that we can't see right now. there are property tax frauds that are going on this. you could have property tax bodies across the country saying he defrauded us to get his taxes

lowered. we're going to raise them. we're going to file for back penalties. and prosecutors could say, this is a fraud on our account. we're going to file a criminal case on this. this could cause a lot of problems and go a lot of different directions. >> not just about this. and one of the directions letitia james is talking about is the potential criminal case. is there a criminal case here? and do you expect that there would be one that the sdny, for example, might pick this up now? >> well, that's a hard question to answer because the civil case, which is what has been filed today, the standard of proof is much lower than a criminal case where you have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. don't forget the d.a.'s office has already looked at this and basically passed on it as a criminal case. so, the question is, why did they do that? now, the civil case has all kinds of other advantages. you've got very detailed allegations in here. and i can guarantee you that when donald trump went in for his deposition here and he was

asked, i am sure about every single allegation in there. and basically what he did is he took the fifth amendment, meaning that a truthful answer to the question asked would tend to incriminate him. so, that gives the a.g.'s office a huge advantage. they've got evidence that it happened, and then they've got donald trump taking the fifth on every single aspect of this. i mean, this ought to be a slam dunk case. but it's completely different once you take it into the criminal realm because you cannot use a person's assertion of the fifth amendment right against them in a criminal case. >> but you can do so in a civil c case, correct? >> yes, in a civil case. but you have to have some evidence of the underlying crime. you just can't ask somebody on the street, did you steal $5,000? i take the fifth. that doesn't do it. you've got to have at least some evidence.

but it appears from this complaint that they do have evidence on every single item that is listed in here. so, by virtue of taking the fifth, he is sunk. he is basically going to be stuck for $250 million. there's going to be a receiver that's going to be put in place over the trump organization. donald trump is not going to be able to deal in any real estate deals again in new york. he is not going to be able to be on a corporation in new york. i mean, this basically undermines, one, the whole idea that he was such a smart businessman. >> right, the billion dollar -- >> the billion dollar man when he's actually the billion dollar crook. and he's going to be, you know, in bankruptcy again. i mean, i just don't see any way out of it. >> will this dismantle the trump organization as a whole do you think? >> oh, i think so. although they are putting a receiver in place. they are putting a monitor in place. so, i think they're assuming that it'll take over the assets.

they'll take over the business. and it'll continue. don't's not going to have any say in that. >> that sounds hugely damaging hearing that from someone who has been at the sdny and know how things work. are you hearing anything from trump world, if you will? are they afraid? is this causing consternation? or is this just going to be used as a political ploy? >> this is a terrible day for donald trump. keep in mind we're talking ability one of the many investigations he's under right now. we've got the ongoing january 6th. we've got the department of justice looking at the classified documents. we have an old sexual assault allegation that's being reupped. his actions are closing in on all sides at this point. and i think that his reaction kind of shows us how he feels. when he feels cornered, he tends to be extremely aggressive. he used this bizarre slander against letitia james, calling

her racist. he's feeling boxed in. i think we'll get into the politics of it more. it's more likely to make his announce presidency. i think he's going to look for every lever to hold onto power. >> it isn't just donald trump being named here. it is three of his adult children. does this hit different because they are named now? it's not just him. it's them. it's several other people that are involved in trump organization. is he taking this differently? >> i think he must be. and that was my experience when i did work for him is stuff that implicated the family and closer to home was something that he personally felt more attacked by. so, i think that's why we're seeing such a strong response from him. >> i'm curious, russ, because you've done so much reporting on the details. and it's difficult to get all this information and put it out to the public so we can consume it and ingest it. does it match some of your reporting? did what you're hearing from letitia james in this filing, does it jive with what you've seen? >> oh, completely.

there are cases where she takes things -- you know, we were looking at the actual financial records as it was filed on tax documents. she doesn't say that those numbers were incorrect. it's just how he transitions businesses that are losing an incredible amount of money that he's pumping money into from his inherited fortune, from his entertainment fortune to make them look like they're successful. and then he alters the bottom line. he alters the equation by which you compute valuation to make them look like they're even more -- that they're really worth something. in some cases they're not worth what he paid for him and he's lost money on every dime he's invested in the thing. we've seen the other side of it where he can use that lie to get more money than he would ever really get otherwise and at a much lower interest rate than he would ever get, which meant he had a greater chance of being able to pay it back. >> so an average person would not be able to pull this off?

>> my inlanws have assets, but e claims their cash is his cash. he claims that the entire value of the building is -- to him. he cannot even get a distribution from that investment unless borna doe decides he's entitled to it. he acts like that's under his control and uses that as a building block to build this massive valuation that in itself is a mountain of fraud. >> can i say there's parallels to how he governed in the end. he tried to defraud the american public in the election. he thought he was going to get away with false electors, trying to overturn the democratic election, disenfranchising more than 80 million voters. this tracks as a character trait of his and how it conducts his business. >> it goes back further. his children were involved in that. they were going to be indicted. but for the fact they were able to get into the d.a.'s office and compromise the district

attorney on this thing. >> there is a long history. if you've been in new york, you've been there. you know what that history is. >> ladies and gentlemen, thank you. i appreciate it you coming on and giving your insight. nick and alissa, you two are going to sick around. more what it means for the criminal case pressing forward. ♪ my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle lie 2 system. th a painless, one-second scan i know my glucose numbers without fingericks. now i'm managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free at freestylelibre.us >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, let safelite come to you.

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on this point, saying, quote, it is self-evident that the public has a strong interest in ensuring that the storage of the classified records did not result in exceptionally grave damage to national security. it involves reviewing the documents, determining who had access to them and when, and deciding which, if any, sources or methods are compromised. the ruling by the appeals court means trump's only recourse at this point is the supreme court. back with me now are alyssa farah griffin and nick ackerman. i want to welcome steve bullock to our conversation. i am going to start with you, i think, nick. you know, if this ends up going to the supreme court, i mean, do you think -- first of all, do you think it will? >> no. >> not a chance? >> no. i think this is so basic, donald trump has no proprietary interest in classified documents. there is no way he ever has the right to get this information or

see it. i mean, that's really the underlying basis of this whole opinion. these are classified documents. and the court comes right out and says based on the affidavit that was submitted saying that both the criminal investigation and the civil matter, the intelligence investigation, looking at whether or not anything had been comp miedsed were so intertwined that the courts don't get involved in second guessing that kind of information. >> i want to get into what trump's lawyers have been saying because they raised sort of vague questions about whether the materials are actually classified or have been declassified. and the court basically called this team out. i want to read what the court said. they said that the plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was president, but the record contains no evidence that any of these records were declassified. that is pretty strong language. what do you make of this? what does someone do with

something like this? what does this tell us about this case? >> well, look, as governor, when i would get classified briefings, it would come in a pouch. i would have to give it back afterwards. and you would move forward. and you look at this, even dearie, the special master, had said at the end of the day, look, you can't just declassify on your own. and they would still remain, these documents. so, to me it's basically been trump just throwing anything out on delays. on the one hand, this 11th circuit in addition, it's a nothing burger. that should have been rejected. you're going to have a lot of errors if you're appointing 40-year-old judges that have no experience in the law. and that's what we saw here. >> trump himself wanted this judge. they figured -- i don't know what they thought the appeals court was going to do. but they certainly wanted judge dearie. were you surprised do you think?

>> i think they were because they were spiking the football when the initial say was in place. to the governor's point, i've worked with classified documents myself. you don't just wave your hand over them and say they're declassified. you have to alert the defense community, other entities. it was an absurd notion from the get go. he didn't have a leg to stand on and that's coming home to roost. >> jamie gangel has a source that says the january 6th committee has made an agreement with ginni thomas, wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. we're starting to talk about are they going to go to the supreme court about this? can you give me a sense, from your perspective, of how badly this looks for the supreme court when you have all of this evidence of ginni thomas sending text messages and trying to get not one but two states, the politicians in two states, to overturn the 2020 election? >> well, listen, it's a time when i think the court has

already seen as so hyperpartisan, a time that couldn't be worse for this to happen. a spouse is separate from who they're married to and her positions are. but this is a woman who was working directly with the white house chief of staff organizing around january 6th, and frankly spreading out-there conspiracy theories that are so far outside of the main stream. i think that her testimony is going to be very, very enlightening. i hope that there's a high degree of cooperation because sometimes with these things, they're cooperating but, you know, in theory, not in practice. so, there's a lot to be learned there, i think, on the actual plans leading up to the sixth different outside groups that we're helping organize around it. she's very tied in the conservative movement. she oversees a group called ground swale that has groups around the country. >> they already have some of this evidence. we've seen some of it. we've seen the text messages to

trump's chief of staff at the time. when you look at this and look at justice thomas being the sole disenter of having trump send over documents to the january 6th committee, does this really hurt the supreme court in the end? are you worried about what this says about the sanctity, if you will, about the supreme court itself? >> as someone that's got to argue in front of the supreme court when i was state attorney general, you wanted to walk boo that building truly believing that it's above politics. >> is it? >> but what we have here is conspiracy wide open out and wide open. from the perspective of at the end of day, look, assuming it's a scandal, assuming that we actually believe that this is not about politics and about just the rule of law, but i think we've seen more and more with this court and all of the sort of gyrations in appointing this court that this independent branch of government, it's hard for even lawyers to have faith in, let alone the populous. >> i want to ask you, nick, about your thoughts about what this does to the judicial system

in general and the way people think about it. >> i think i.t. reflects badly on the court. there's no question about it. it makes you wonder, you know, how are decisions really made? as you pointed out, clarence thomas was the one dissenting vote on that decision relating to the documents that went to the january 6 committee. he was the only one. i mean, he should never have voted on that decision. >> you think he should have recused himself? >> he should have recused himself, absolutely. particularly in light of all the facts we know now. none of this helps you. take that into account with roe versus wade where they basically ignored resident for 50 years. people put on the court just because of their position on roe versus wade. nothing else. i mean, that was the litmus test obviously for trump in terms of who he appointed to the court. all of that adds up to a situation where it's really

eroded the public confidence in the court, which is a shame. >> it's one of the three branches of government we expect to balance out. >> that's right. and the way we're selecting judges and the way it's being done now i find is an absolute outrage. they wind out whichever party it is. they pick the youngest person they can that's going to die the last so they can stay on there forever. and they look for people with very specific views. you don't see an earl warren or abe fortis or a goldberg on there anymore. i mean, they're not picking the best and the brightest out of the legal profession. >> i thank you all for that really -- wow, so many things to talk about. we could go on for hours. nick ackerman, alyssa farah griffin. steve, stick with us. just ahead, president biden tears into vladimir putin on the world stage hours after the russian leader dangled nuclear threats, as his country loses ground in ukraine. the new front in what may feel like a new cold war when "cnn

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developing tonight, over 1,000 people have been detained in antiwar protests across russia. this after president vladimir putin announced he is mobilizing additional forces to ukraine and hinted that he would consider

using nuclear weapons in the conflict. ukrainian president zelenskyy responding the in a video address before the u.n. tonight, demanded that russia be punished for crimes against his country. that comes after president biden today warned putin against further escalation. >> this war is about extinguishing ukraine's right to exist as a state, plain and simple, and ukraine's right to exist as a people. wherever you are, wherever you live, whatever you believe, that should not -- that should make your blood run cold. a nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought. >> joining me now, s.e. cupp. steve bullock is back with us. and ber joined by south carolina

governor mark sanford. i'm going to start with you, governor. senior officialing "cnn tonight" that they don't see any signs of a heightened nuclear threat coming from russia. but putin's comments are alarming to anyone, not just americans, not just ukrainians, people in the entire region. how concerned should we all be about this escalating war of words at this point? because there is a war still going on. >> sure, and sara, i think we should be, as the president and most americans are, rightfully concerned about what russia is doing in ukraine period, full stop. and if you look at it -- clearly putin is getting desperate. if you look at what he said, it was basically on a defensive posture. if someone takes over our land, then we'll start using nuclear weapons. i think, look, calling up 300,000 reservists. that's more than the 200,000

total they've had in ukraine. he's grasping at straws, and it used to not impact the whole country. this actually will. >> that's why i think you're seeing some of those protests as well because russian soldiers are dying while they're killing ukrainians, both civilians and people fighting. i'm curious, s.e., what you made of president biden's address. i mean, it was some fiery stuff from him. >> it was great. it was really strong. it was also in front of a totally meaningless audience. the u.n. security council has russia as a permanent member. it's proven to be pretty feckless during this and many other wars. so, he said all the right things but he could have given it in the white house cafeteria, sadly. and this isn't s.e. cupp's opinion. president zelenskyy months ago and more months has been begging the u.n. to doing something, in his words, more than have a conversation. he said back in april, if you're

just going to have a conversation, you might as well dissolve. it was great but i don't know to what effect. >> mark, what do you make of that? do you think it's true he's talking to an audience really that can't do anything, so it's action, not words. >> the audience was irrelevant, but the message was not. the fact that she was clear and definitive about america's stance with ukraine has consequence. i would also say this. i don't think putin is to be dismissed on this one. if you look at the history over time, they become more and more, you know, sort of insular, in their own little world. tell me who's going to speak truth to power with putin with regard to the world he lives in. so, he's living in a strange little world. he thought, based on the intel he got, they could quickly take to ukraine. it's not the case. i don't think it's to be dismissed based on the world he's living in. and secondly, if you watch russian television over the last six months, they have

consistently talked about the notion of nuclear or tactical war. i mean, it is more real than i think people would surmise. what worries me is i -- for years, i hear from foreign policy russia experts. these people would say putin is evil, but he's not crazy. and they would say that as a way to allay nuclear fears. those same people i talk to now say he might just be crazy. that is alarming because these are people who are trying to tamp down the panic and paranoia are now saying he might be desperate enough and crazy, not all there, and in a box. that we should take this pretty seriously. have you been sort of hearing that same sort of sentiment? because i've heard it as well, having been in ukraine, that, you know, oh, he's not possibly going to do that. and then he did it. he did the very thing people thought he wouldn't go that far and invade. and he did it. now that he's making these veiled threats about nuclear

war, it would affect them too. it doesn't just stand in one place. >> no. and his circles become smaller and smaller. but i think one of the things where we say, does that speech matter? it matters in part because if you look when president biden walked in, america first became america alone. what he did in advance of the invasion of ukraine, when you have 141 countries universally condemning what russia is doing, he spoke from a position of leadership not just in our country but in our world. >> is america diminished though when it comes to -- i'll ask this to you s.e., and you can also respond. are we diminished on the international stage over the past several years? >> i think we've taken a hit. i don't think we're diminished. i think people, especially our allies, are eager for us to regain our footing and care about foreign policy that's not just about america's needs, what we can take. so, i think there's a thirst for it. i know that biden, with all of his foreign policy experience,

wants to deliver it. but it's going to take some time for us to regain the trust of our allies and for us to regain our footing after a tumultuous couple of years. >> i would also say the times make men and women on the leadership front. and i think that given the threat that exists with russia that didn't exist as clear and present as it does now, that there is, a, a thirst to s.e.'s point, for american leadership. but also i think it's going to allow us to shine based on the fact it's real and does exist and it's coming out. >> everyone stick around with me. just ahead, this is something that will lift spirits a little bit. but there's also a down side. we are going to be talking with some -- about some issues with the lottery. we are also going to be talking with a lawyer who is standing up for the migrants who were flown to martha's vineyard. the attorney who is working with the migrants has a lot to say

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prop 27 sends 90% of profits to out-of-state corporations in places like new york and boston. no wonder it's so popular... out there. yeah! i can't believe those idiots are going to fall for this. 90%! hey mark, did you know california is sending us all their money? suckers. -those idiots! [ laughter ] imagine that, a whole state made up of suckers. vote no on 27. it's a terrible deal for california. we win. you lose. millions of people are desperately risking their lives to get into this country. that reality too often is lost in the u.s. politics of immigration. and for many this is what that desperation looks like. this is video from a 2015 case of human smuggling.

and now a video from 2017. ten people died in the back of that truck. we saw similar scene in june. 53 people died in san antonio. a different president was in office for each of those cases. this goes beyond the politics of the moment and why even the head of customs and border protection said this is about the republican governor sending migrants to cities run by democrats. >> i think vulnerable people for whatever the purpose might be can just never be the right thing. >> i am joined now by rachel self, an immigration attorney, who has been helping many of the migrants sent to martha's vineyard. they are asylum seekers. can you give me some sense of how the families are and what they're still dealing with at this point? >> so, they're doing pretty well at this point. as everybody is aware, they were

dropped unceremoniously without any preparation on the island of martha's vineyard. this wasn't like a bus to new york city or washington, d.c. there was nowhere to get off, and they weren't aware of where they were going until they were midair and they weren't familiar with what martha's vineyard was. the end point was not a large city with a lot of resources or infrastructure to be able to provide for them. so, immediately when we learned they had arrived on the island, we sprang into action, martha's vineyard community services, all the police agencies to get them into a solution to attend to their needs. they're now at the joint base cape cod being very, very well provided for by several pro bono allies and lawyers who are volunteering their time and getting medical services. several of them had pretty significant medical issues when they arrived and being taken

care of my nima and everybody in massachusetts. the whole community has rallied around them to try to help them because they truly were victims in this. and even though it is obvious it was designed as a political stunt, this isn't a political story. it's really just black and white letter of the law that a crime was committed here against these people. >> there is someone in texas, one of the sheriffs there looking into potential -- investigation into potential criminal actions. but i first want to talk to you about some of the things we've been hearing from the politicians who were involved in doing this. first up governor desantis claiming that everyone volunteered to go, that they agreed to go to martha's vineyard. why wouldn't they go somewhere nice, like martha's vineyard is sort of what he said. let's listen in. >> the state of florida, it was volunteer, offered transport to sanctuary jurisdictions. they were provided an ability to be in the most posh sanctuary

jurisdiction maybe in the world. >> how do you respond to that? the most posh sanctuary jurisdiction maybe in the world? >> i just think it evidences how incredibly out of touch he is with reality. you know, year arounders on martha's vineyards, there is a lot of wealth on martha's vineyard. summer homes for wealthy people. but the year around people of martha's vineyard are hardworking. there are many people who have to go to the food bank for their food. the reality that he sees is not the reality. and really how i feel when i hear him speak about this is the same day i walked in on a middle school bully picking on kids in the schoolyard and to be laughing about this. these are human beings. and the people on our island and the community feel very differently than he does. and this was either designed to be confusing, demoralizing,

frightening, or maybe worse. it was designed without even thinking about them as people at all without any consequence to what this was going to do to them. and just an interest in getting some sort of political capital or political gain. and it just really is stomach turning. >> i want to go to another point the governor has been making is that everyone signed consent forms. will they sign consent forms. here's what he had to say. >> they all signed consent forms to go. and then the vendor that is doing this for florida provided them with a packet that had a map of martha's vineyard. >> again, you hear the softening of things. we have heard from migrants from there saying they didn't really know what was going on. what do you make of that? >> these were vulnerable people in a very precarious position. and i think that the consent form isn't worth the paper thaer it's printed on. saying something doesn't make it

so. if i slapped a label on a pound of butter calling it fat free, it wouldn't make it fat free. snake oil doesn't make your hair grow back. and you have to look at the contents. you don't even need to speak spanish and english to look at the consent form that he says people voluntarily, knowingly, and intelligently signed to know you just have to count the words to realize it wasn't even all translated into spanish. and everybody has a basic idea. we all who live in this world have a basic understanding and idea of what consent means. if you say to me, may i have a bite of your sandwich, and i consent to that and then you eat my entire sandwich, that is very different from what i consented to. in this particular instance, you know, considering all the castles in the sky these migrants were sold before they were induced by fraud to get on that plane, even if they -- the free housing, the work authorization, the english classes, the school for the

kids. nothing was waiting for them. and then they were -- i mean, it's just absolutely outrageous to say that they knew what they were doing. and you also can't consent to be a victim. you can't consent to perpetrate a crime. you can't have a contract to agree to a criminal act. it's all just completely absurd. and i put it up there about at the same level of authority as the backs. >> rachel self, thank you so much. we should alwso make the point that these were asylum seekers legally in the country trying to seek asylum and d go through th process. we'll be rightht back. fers frs we want to buy your car so go to carvana enter your license plate answer a few questions and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds when you're ready we'll come to you pay you on the spot and pick up your car that's it so ditch the old way of selling your car

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we'd like to leave you tonight with something that isn't death, destruction and politics so we're going here of the imagine winning over a billion dollars. how long could you keep it a secret from your family, or would you, from your friends? o i'm not going to say your annoying boss, but that too. how long for about eight weeks. that's how long it's been since the drawing of the third largest jackpot in history. today the winners have finally claimed their prize, but they're choosing to remain anonymous. all we know is that there are two people who bought the winning ticket at a gas station in illinois and hit the big

payday, opting for the lump sum payout of more than $780 million. that's over $390 million each. all right, let's just go down this imaginary road, because i know none of you have the ticket or you wouldn't be here tonight, i'm assuming. would you quit your job and say i'm out? >> in a second. you would never see me again. >> really? >> yes, yes. i would tell no one, maybe not even my husband. i would quit my job. i would take the lump sum. i mean i would tell no one. because you get into trouble when that happens. no, i'd tell my husband. but i would take the lump sum. i would quit my job and i would have the most fun giving it away. who hasn't fantasized about who you could help and what you could do with that much money. so that would be fun. but you would never see me again, i'm sorry, sara. >> i would stay, just fyi, with a smile on my face because i knew i could walk away whenever i wanted. i need something to do, but i get what you're saying.

your not a big fan of the lottery, i hear, the whole idea of it? >> ooei'm not. >> what do you have against education? >> i'm happy for the dream. we all want hope, i get it. but if you look at the numbers, you're 300 times more likely to be struck by lightning tonight than to win the lottery. so i've got a great friend, lonnie randolph, head of the naacp back in south carolina when i was governor. he fought so hard against the lottery. he said we all want hope but this is giving false hope. this is fun to celebrate but it's not most people's experience. on average people are throwing about $200 a year into the lottery nationwide and it's a regressive tax. >> debbie downer. >> there is that point. to be fair, mark, that argument has been made in my family as well. steve, they have chosen to remain anonymous. is that a consensus that we would call -- >> if you could.

>> yes. i think, first of all, and it does give -- like we sat around in our family saying what would we do if we won this? >> isn't that a little bit more of the joy of it? you can think of it and you don't have to win? the money would be joyful too. >> but actually in some ways when you see this, because you also hear so many tragic stories of people winning the lottery -- >> and going broke. >> and then being destroyed. so bless them. >> geez, guys. >> bless them for giving it some thought and getting together with consultants or tax attorneys and others and saying how do we go forward. so maybe if we play our cards right, whoever won can join us at this table one of these days. >> i'll going to say something controversial and my family will be annoyed, but i like working for my money. i don't want to win it. not that much. give me a couple million, i'll be okay. >> okay. we'd all be woek. >> but i actually like working for money. >> the struggle is what gives it

meaning of the just to have a lump sum, to steve's point, has proven to be incredibly destructive with a lot of families that have won money. >> mark, thank you so much for being here and we will be right back with lottery dreams. why hide your skin if dupixent has your moderate-to-severe eczema, or atopic dermatitis under control? hide my skin? not me. because duxent targets a root cause of eczema, it helps heal your skin from within, keeping you one step ahead of it. hide my skin? not me. and for kids ages 6 months and up that means clearer skin, and noticeably less itch. with dupixent, you can change how their skin looks and feels. and that's the kind of change you notice. hide my skin? not me. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe.

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thanks for hanging with me. i will be back tomorrow night. "don lemon tonight" start right now. hey, don. >> last night i had susan glasser and peter baker's book. it was a good read. you know what the book todayes? look, it's a thick one. >> 222 pages? >> 215 plus the table of contents. the book of the day is the people of the state of new york by letitia james, and it is a hot read. >> it is hot. >> it is hot. what do you think? >> causing a big stir. causing a big stir. causing some problems. >> we'll see what happens. but if you look at -- i was like someone putting all of this together and i can o