respond to this? >> i think they are going to hide under the rocks. this whole thing is designed basically to get donald trump to come forward with a sworn statement under oath that yes, stuff was planted by the fbi, or that the fbi moved things around and they are not where they say they were. or there is other stuff that is not on this inventory. so basically, he is the only witness. he is the only guy that can say this. and what they are forcing donald trump to do is to take what he has done on fox news, and actually come forward with real evidence in the court of law that is admissible, not speculation, not some super conspiracy theory that he has been spewing all over the place. and comes down and really show that he has got something and he doesn't, the lawyers are never going to let him do that. because if he puts in a sworn statements, he is leaving himself open for another charge of lying under oath to a

federal court. the bottom line is, he is toast! there is nothing he can do -- [laughs] >> i was gonna say screwed. there is a consistency problem here. you can say many times, in public, on television, there was all kinds of things in those boxes. i don't know what was in those boxes. so it's very hard to get from -- at and have any idea what was in the boxes, to, i know they planted things. do you agree with that? >> i completely agree. judge dearie is a no nonsense judge. he's not going to take pr statements and say that that has any merit and his court. he is going to say as these guys said, prove it. this is a very dangerous game for them to play as nick said, this is just another criminal charge waiting on all of the other criminal charges that are being investigated. >> so how do they play it then? yeah, >> i think they declare victory in some way and get out of this thing because this is not going to end well for them,

this will end with perjury charges, it'll end with a human being called out they are not prepared for. if they try the pr trilogy and judge dearie's courts, it's going to go even worse for the lawyers. >> okay, and politically it's terrible. >> okay, okay. but you said they are going to claim victory of some sort in some way. how does one do that in this instance? and then get out of this? how do you get out it's at this point? they are kind of in for a penny or a pound? >> i don't think you do it credibly, but what they say is, well all we really cared about is the special master looking at the other items that were seized in the search. we never said we were going to take possession over custody of the classified documents. we conceded that we didn't have a right to those. it's not terribly credible and the breach in their case, that's one way that they could try to declare victory and move on. >> the strategy is just that, which is okay, you deal with the classified stuff, we don't

want to make sure that the other things aren't privilege. which is even harder because the presidential records act in 1978 says presidential records, privilege, or otherwise, are the property of the government, not the former presidents. so it's tangled. but remember, don, the key is, there is two strategies here. there is a legal strategy that is going on in the courtroom, but then there is a propaganda strategy which is, we saw the former president appear today on his own social media wearing the queue pan from qanon. with the qanon slogan. you know the storm is coming, other qanon slogan under it. he has never -- he has always kept an arms length distance from qanon, the conspiracy group that, you know has been responsible for an attempted shooting, in washington. a homicide in new york city, and all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories! but if you are in a position right now, saying the fbi

planted things, this is another witch hunt, another program by the deep state and its intelligence agencies, having the qanon echo trainers is going to be helpful. they have a balance between what is lawyers are willing to do and what's his followers are gonna be wrapped up into. >> is this desperation? two, to -- >> if you listen to what john, says >> it is desperation, it is going nowhere for him! it is going right down the toilet! this is politically just toxic! he's going to keep this in the headlines right through the elections. >> but i don't understand, how he gets out of it, they are going to get out of it and they are gonna try with this is you believe. how do you untangle something legally -- how do you untangle yourself from something that you have doubled and tripled down on? >> oh it's all twisted around on us. >> how do you untangle yourself from that? >> it's like vietnam, you declare victory and you leave. even though you didn't win. >> and that's the examination of the documents where we are, we're kind of stuck in that

drama right now. there is still the possession of the document, there is still the classified documents. so in that case, he has exposure there, or do we see it as often happens, he throws others under the bus where, well, the obstruction was the people who talk to the feds, not me. i didn't, no i wasn't there. >> well i think that's part of it. but the bottom line is, the documents, the 11,000 documents don't really relate to the classified documents. but what they could relate to is what happened on january six. nobody is really focused on that. remember, the january six committee asked for documents from trump's white house and they got certain documents. >> isn't this why the doj, why they filed the appeal to be able to use the records to continue to the investigation. what they say now is that they don't know what these documents were? and that those documents may be leading to something as what you are saying? >> oh i think that's actually

absolutely right. >> okay listen, what about of them opening up the special master, saying i'm open to witnesses here. i'm open to witnesses and testify about these documents, and the fbi search. does that lead to more legal peril for trump? >> i certainly think that that's the bait that the trump would be lawyers would be stupid to take. if they start calling witnesses, start putting witnesses on the stat, first of all the people will have to be prepared to tow the trump line. and judge dearie is going to cut to the quick and side cross examining the witnesses themselves. as i said before, this is not going to end well. what i think we are all saying is, they have a short term strategy, but they don't have a long term strategy because the long term strategy here is when the fbi does those classified documents for fingerprints, and finds all the people that handled them, including the two former presidents desk, people will be running scared once they realize that that process is going to be underway.

it'll be a real problem of handling documents that they knew they shouldn't have had. >> john, one of the most astonishing things i've ever, or excuses i've ever heard from anyone, and i've heard a lot here, especially team trump over the last, 5 to 6 years, what he said about the classification last night on fox news. watch this. >> there doesn't have to be a process as i understand it. there is never peoples that's a different things, but if i understand it -- if you are the president of the united states, you can declassified just by saying, it's declassified, even by thinking about it. >> i mean -- wow! i mean -- it let me just give some of the background here. it is absurd because -- because, the special master judge dearie has already made it clear that the documents are classified unless trump provides some sort of evidence of declassification. it appears to be no evidence of declassification.

so that is a nod their false claim. >> i mean you can order it to be declassified, but you have to give that order to someone and then try to be declassified, that order has to be recorded and carried out. the dni, and i say this as a former deputy assistant director of the dni, the dni has all of those documents and they are doing a declassification review. are they still classified, are they still not classified at the level that they worry when they left the white house? and so far, the answer to all of that is yes. so unless that they find a memo saying declassified this document from the white house, that is highly unlikely. so you certainly can't think about it and declassify it. you have to write it down somewhere. >> the thing that is crazy is that those words came out of his mouth. he actually said, even by thinking about the classification! i think we all read the statute, it's not there. and in fact the one witness, the witness that they have is donald trump himself. >> i'm just surprised the whole

thing, or hannity, laughed at's face, or didn't question him on that. that's the most absurd thing i've ever heard! but [laughs] >> that's not what they do as a journalist. that's the most absurd, think that's like a child saying that i didn't eat the cookies, or whatever, and the cookies is the evidence is all over his face. it's bizarre! >> even more bizarre is the portion about the fee. it's basically set up that no one trust donald trump to pay the fee at the end of the day to the help that is working with judge dewey on this. if you look at that, they set it up so they can hold donald trump in contempt. if it doesn't pay skis. i'll bet you there are a lot of lawyers out there that represented donald trump that wish they had that provision in their engagement letters. >> this is a fascinating conversation, and you that you guys think it's over, you think they have no more moves and the chessboard, even in the supreme court? >> no. >> no. there's not even a chance, that opinion from the 11th circuit, three zip, it's well reasoned,

it's on the money, there's no way that goes anywhere. >> including two of his appointees. >> right. >> wow! thank you, good to see you, all of you. i want to bring in contributor and donald trump biographer, the author of new book high crimes. michael, good to see you, you've been listening to this conversation. what do you think? >> hi don! your panel is absolutely right, the former president doesn't have any moves left. and you also can see across the spectrum that his running out of moves and running out of lives, and that comment on how he could declassified things in his mind is the same line that he told the news oppose 15 years ago when he said, well the value of my company is based on how i feel inside.

so [laughs] , this is a person who has never accepted concrete reality but is running out of people who listen to him when he offers his delusions. >> while he is running out of people in the legal realm, right? [laughs] the judges in special masses, but he's not running out of supporters, you know around the country, they still believe that he can declassify something like, you know, barbara eaton. [laughs] >> on the which -- , go on. >> know that would be -- >> the similar issue with this whole problem maggie haberman's reporting on trump's purported wealth -- >> let me tell you what the reporting is because this is an exclusive detail, maggie haberman's new book, the making of donald trump and the breaking of america once received a least payment entirely and gold bars, and you are calling this the trumpiest thing that you have ever heard.

[laughs] >> it really is the trumpiest thing i've ever heard. like so many trumpy things, you really have to question the details and wonder, did this actually happen? and if it did actually happen, did it happen the way it is reported? or at least the former president people claim. and lastly, who was involved? so think about who might have 1000 pounds of gold hanging around. because that's what a few dozen bars of gold way. and there weren't a $15 million. so the other question is, who has made $15 million that he wants to hide in gold bars? well we know what kind of people want to hide things like that. it's people who are as donald trump said about immigrants, drug dealer. and criminals.

and murderers. these are bad people that he has obviously was in business with, and the other thing that is happening here is that his identity, the identity of his family. and i actually think that this ripples out to the self concept of all of those followers. it's all crumbling. and this is devastating to them as people, but also a public figures and business leaders. >> yes, and i listen, michael, just sitting here listening to these three gentlemen, the gravity of this, and the reality settling in for him and the people as you said, the family members, and the people that he did business with. just, you know, they are adults and they did that. but the people that he co-opted around the country when this happened, and that he's going to continue to lie to them and saying that i am being attacked. i'm wondering how long it is until he starts to attack the special master and call the special master a rhino, or a

deep state, or even a racist. you know he just attacks people. and i'm just wondering what that is going to cause around the country. how it's going to cause people to react around the country. are they going to believe it? are they going to double down? are they going to double down and believe it? or they are not going to believe it or become disillusioned in some odd, weird, dramatic thing might happen. >> it's a big challenge to the people who support donald trump because one moments after another, one day after another, there is a new revelation about how much he lied to them. and if you think about how people eventually turn, it's when there is that last straw. everything that is coming out now is suggesting that the original things that he claims about being so smart, about

being so rich, those were all lies from the very start. and those of us around new york city and who have dealt with him for many years knew this. it's another big issue that maggie raises, is his manipulation of forbes magazine and his threat to malcolm forbes, two outs him as a gay man, background 1987. this notion that he was always campaigning to get a higher paid on the forbes a list of the most wealthy, is really appalling. and i think that his followers are going to see that. >> thank you michael, we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> yeah, there you go. next, a tale of two elections with midterms just 48 hours away, what are the issues driving democrats and republicans to the polls.

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we are less than 50 days away from the midterms and as democrats and republicans had the campaign trail, two elections are playing out all across the country. cnn's has more now. >> two years ago, if you would've said to me four years ago, roe v. wade would be overturned, i would've said you are crazy, that's will never happen, but it happens. >> for many liu blazed all is first and foremost the election, about abortion rights. , i thought that my generation had that issue solved. but apparently we don't. we are starting all over again. >> but for our gary hendricks, the november vote is primarily about president biden. >> the people are unhappy with

what biden is doing, number one. >> and a chance to put a check on democratic policies in washington. >> it was just anti oil, i mean i can see you want it to save the environment, but do it at a pace that the -- it's not going to hurt the world. >> it's one midterm election, but to decidedly different campaigns are underway here in new hampshire and across the country. democrats are trying to tap into an urgent desire to protect abortion rights and democracy. that message resonates with laura miller. a pediatrician who said she would pay little attention to politics before the supreme court overturned roe versus wade. >> does that make you more motivated to vote? >> yeah, definitely. we are now like, okay, we need to get out and actually vote. not even that it makes a difference, i don't know, but i feel like now i need to because i have my own opinion. >> was that ever something you

thought could happen in your lifetime? >> now, it didn't! and that's what kind of scares me with politics. >> get republicans believe inflation, crime, and immigration, will motivate voters to change course. mike collapses owns a small business, and economic concerns are paramount. >> my cost operate my business are astronomically more than they used to be, but employees are next to impossible. >> do you hope that november changes the washington, and the boundaries? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> this tell of two elections of playing out in a crush of campaign ads from coast to coast. on crime, republicans are hammering democrats. >> he is more worried about criminals than victims. >> spending more than $21 million on ads in the last month alone. while democrats have invested less than 5 million. on abortion, democrats are dominating the airwaves. >> carrie lake is serious. serious about criminalizing abortion. >> spending 46 million over the

last month and adds. republicans, only 4 million. in new hampshire where key races are helping to control the house and senate, election integrity is also at play. >> 2020 election was undoubtedly stolen from president trump. >> inside her store, friends of all political persuasions voiced concerned about the country's deep divide. the question is whether that is a voting issue in the final rate weeks of the race. >> we should all be standing up and supporting this country and this democracy because there are some that are trying to tear down through their anger and their false information that is out there. >> usually, by now, my time election campaign is revolving around one issue. that does not seem to be the case at least so far right now. there are two very different elections unfolding in realtime. democrats pushing abortion rights, democracy, republicans talking about crime, immigration, and inflation. the winning strategy, the

winning theories here could well determine which party winds come november. don? >> all right, jeff, thank. you >> moms are less than 50 days, away democrats are running on abortion rights and democracy as jeff said, republican crime, and inflation. whose ideas will win out, we will discuss next. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish]

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house democrats passing a package of policing and public safety bills, that after negotiations and hours of late minute wrangling. democrats hope that this will blunt some of the attacks the gop calling the party anti

police. that is all happening with less than 50 days with both democrats and republicans hone in on what they are considering winning issues for voters, for more, i want to bring in political commentators scott jennings, also tom banyard, is a democratic political strategist and ceo of data and polling of the data and polling firm target smart. good evening to both of you. tom, let start with you. it's a tale of two elections here, each side focusing on different issues, democrats, abortion and democracy, republicans, inflation, crime, inflation. which party has the upper hand right now, does any of them have the upper hand? >> the fact that you are even asking this question at this point, a month ago it went up in a question. republicans are were on their way to an easy win. and i don't think you could find many people with who would disagree. we saw, look, the history was in midterm elections, the party that is not the white house, that isn't and control winds

easily. and republicans were a bit on cruise control until the dobbs decision. and then, you know something different happens. we saw what happened at kansas. we saw women registering to vote at levels and no one has seen before. we've seen these special elections where all of a sudden, democrats are energized. so the question of who has the upperhand, it's impossible to say at this point. i think democrats have the energy on their side when you look at voters registration, when you look at turnout and the new york 19 special, and the alaska special, but we saw just about seven weeks to go. >> listen, i think if those things that you mentioned, you said that the women voter registration and all of that, if that had happened to the closer to the election, you can maybe read more into that. but i think republicans, and scott correct me if i'm wrong, always come, home usually come home. and are under polled in elections. you've got roe v. wade being overturned, that is a big motivating factor for democrats. now republicans are focusing on

immigration, certainly gonna roll of the gop bases. you see what happened in rwanda scientists and so on. could this -- do you say that may fire up democrats with ron desantis and greg abbott we do? >> i don't actually think so. and i think as much as republicans are focused on immigration, they are also focused on the economy and inflation, cost of living, there was a big new survey on nbc, on the weekend, and as a very simple question. what's more important to your vote in this election, candidates attributes on dealing with cost of loving, or candidates position on abortion? cost of loving was a 59%, abortion was like 37. so i actually think that the discipline republican campaign can make use of immigration, but the real issue is still the economy and inflation. democrats are choosing to focus on something else, but the issue in the race is not gone away. the discipline is to stay on it.

the republican campaign -- you >> said the discipline on all of, them you think that they are all disciplined? >> i just did a segment that i do know if you saw the quality of republican candidates of people talking about subversion. >> some, are some aren't. as i'm sure the debate inked partner tonight contest, not all candidates would created equally when able to stay on message. so down the stretch though, it is as clear to me in our day, that we see it is cost of living quality of life, kind of campaign that is ultimately going to make a difference. and it's not just immigration, inflation. it's also crime. >> that's what i want to talk, about democrats are trying to make this push now to try to push back this narrative that the party is anti police, and soft on crime. today's house, the house democrats pass a new package of policing in public safety bells. is that going to be enough to really blunt the gop attacks, don? because it seems like it's coming a bit late in the game.

>> well republicans clearly want to bring this election back onto their turf. i think that is what you are seeing with these migrant flights. they want the conversation to not be about twice. they want it to be about crime. i think what democrats are doing is smart, but in the end, these voters are going to be focused on the facts, we haven't had an election before where a 50 year basic human rights precedents has been overturned. and so when we talk about these polls, look the polls that democrats were going to lose new york, 19. democratic's polls from internal polls said democrats were going to lose the alaska special election. the poll said that kansas abortion vote was going to be a one-point vote. the pro-choice position won by almost 20 points. democrats won in alaska. democrats won in new york. i understand that the republicans are trying to shift it after a more comfortable playing field, but when you look at the generate ballot.

if you look at the generic ballot pose, it little bit in the weeds, but our best indicator of where things stand in the battle for control of the house, democrats hit their highest watermark hit in the past 451 days. >> but tom -- >> the numbers have been going up. >> hear me out, hear me. i agree with you. i understand that -- wasn't that close to the impact -- like that's kind of when, for like a better term, the bomb went off. so it was closer to what's happened, as we get further away from the shot of that event of roe being overturned, you don't think that will also have an impact of people sort of lose interest, and they may not be as motivated? >> i think what we are seeing is the shock continues. when you see lindsey graham talking about actually filing a bill for a national federal abortion ban, the issue is going away, we are seeing stories of being denied basic health care. and so what we are seeing is not only the voter registration still surging among women and

younger voters, there are some states that are actually beginning the process of voting. states like georgia, or pennsylvania, voters can request ballots already. what we are seeing in those states is that democrats and women are requesting democrats ballots at a much higher rate in the past elections. including 2020. >> is that where scott, i'll give you the last word -- >> not really, i mean on the crime issue what you started with on that question, you are seeing this play out as individual races like pennsylvania, wisconsin, where republicans are going heavily into the up research bile on fetterman and barnes. so i do think that salient, and i think it's too little too late on the dams. on the abortion question, i disagree with tom. i actually think graham's position is fairly defensible. 15 weeks in the three exceptions, it gives any republican a reasonable position to latch onto. and if you are willing to lean into, but again, i'll go back to where it started. that's not where the republican campaign is going to be won. it's going to be won on the cost of living quality of life. >> i don't disagree with that, i think those issues are always

a tense amount. those are always at the top of the list. but i think whether people believe that sort of republican positions when you have lindsey graham saying, this is the states right position, and not you know -- trying to do something else at the last minute. >> i think there's a difference for what it's worth, between incumbents and people who haven't held office before. you are still shaping your universe having voting record on. it >> thank you both, i appreciated. >> the disgraced seeing and second deformations trial and -- fall statements of the saudi hook shooting. we will show you what happened next. here. aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme. time. it's life's most precious commodity, especially when you have metastatic breast cancer. when your time is threatened, it's hard to investin you. kisqali is helping women live longer th ever before when taken with an aromatase inhibitor or fulvestrant...

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california, mountains, oceans, natural wonders, diverse and creative people. but when the out-of-state corporations behind prop 27 look at california, they see nothing but suckers. they wrote prop 27 to give themselves 90% of the profits from online sports betting in california. other states get much more. why is prop 27 such a suckers deal for california? because the corporations didn't write it for us. they wrote it for themselves. kevin: i've fought wildfires for twenty years. here's the reality we face every day. this is a crisis. we need more firefighters, more equipment, better forest management to prevent wildfires and reduce toxic smoke. and we need to reduce the tailpipe emissions that are driving changes to our climate. that's why cal fire firefighters, the american lung association, and the california democratic party support prop 30. prevent fires. cut emissions. and cleaner air. yes on 30.

the antics today, far-right media personalities taking the stand on the trial that will determine how much he owes families and the san diego victims, suing him for defamation in connecticut. jones has spent his career embracing and spreading conspiracy theories, falsely claim that the school shooting was a hoax and that a grieving families and victims were so called, crisis actors. there's trial taking place a month after a texas jury determined that jones and his company should award to sandy hook parents nearly $15 million. the testimony today both explosive and confrontational. watch. >> right, here he's real isn't? >> yes. >> and for years, you put a target on his back, didn't you? >> objection -- >> overruled.

>> well i -- >> i said his name it's true. i said other people's names not knowing who they are. >> you put a target on his back just like you did every single parent and loved ones, didn't? you >> know i didn't. >> no you didn't? >> argumentative -- this is speculative. >> this is unbelievable. you switch on emotions on and off when you want. it is fabulous chasing. >> why don't you show a little respect? >> objection, i think you get what you get in this court. >> senior analyst is here, joey, gosh, i don't know how those families restrain themselves like that. because i would've jumped across and tried to punch him in the face. i'm not lying. just the disrespect. >> yeah, it's a problem, don. just putting this in context, you are talking about a situation where you have 20 children dead, six educators dead, and then you have someone here, adams jones who was out there saying this is not true. this is about the government trying to take away your guns

and limit gun control. saying all of these things. those have consequences. so not only do you have grieving families that have to endure hurtful statements like that, where someone is making really money off of them, but then you have people buying into these conspiracy theories and taking it out on the families. and so without question, to your point, if you were to jump over the well and really gotten adam, it's really difficult, i'm sure, for the families to contain themselves when you have someone spouting just such ridiculousness and not accepting accountability. so it's very difficult to watch. very little respect for the process and the decorum of the court that is alex jones. and let's see what happens next. when the jury gets their hands on case and has to deliberate over damages which is what they are assessing now, don. >> it's sad because people like him are increasingly becoming the norm. that's way of thinking, that's way of doubling down, that's way of using other people for content for their, whether it

be their podcast, or block, or social media, for even their right wing television shows, where news channels, jones even got into it with a judge. he called the tyrant, earlier this week. she admonished him today, listen. >> you are in a court of law. you have to follow the rules as is the attorneys -- and they are [inaudible] however, while the media in the role, this is not a press conference. this is clearly not your show. and you need to respect the process. >> it is important to know joy, the jury was, there the judge warning everyone who violates quotas will be subject to a court hearing. do you think where this could be headed? >> i think it could be. look, when you have a situation, there is no question that matters was yet contentious in the courtroom. that is the nature of the base.

but notwithstanding that, you have to really take heat of the process, pay tension to the process, and respect the process. ultimately, part of that process is accountability. everyone, don, has opinions, and those opinions should and could be respected. but this is a distinction between an opinion, and a fact. and there's a distinction between spouting an opinion about what you believe, what you like, what you dislike, and specifically saying what didn't happen, what was the basis of it, and et cetera. false statements which impair reputations, which ended people emotionally, et cetera, and ultimately, if he doesn't respect that process, which clearly he didn't, let us remind the jury briefly, why are we here? he defaulted. what does that mean don? he was found to be responsible to be reliable by default. did not share evidence with the other side, did not share information, did not respected judicial rulings with regard to what he should turn over. so the judge is in texas and in

connecticut here, said you know what, you are liable. now we are going to go and allow a jury to determine how much you are going to pay those families for what you said. so it just goes about from the outset a total lack of disrespect in decorum, a total lack, really, valuing what is actually true. it happened, right? december 2012, it did occur, people died. and now here we are in terms of his accountability, we will see what the jury does with respect to that. >> joe jackson, thank you very, much i appreciate it. >> we will be right back. >> always. ere. just one dose starts to relieve 9 of your worst cold and flu symptoms, to help take you from 9 to none. for max strength nighttime reliefef, nyquil severe: ♪

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built one of the largest media empires in history over the last several decades. now, the new cnn the documentary the empire the murdoch,'s reveals through exclusive reporting how one family's ambitions are shaping business, media, and politics around the world, here is a preview. it rupert murdoch decided he was going to put his stamp on the city of new york, here i am you better pay some attention, and i'm gonna have one of an impact.

>> well it's fascinating, joining, now jim ruttenberg writer at large for the new york times, and jonathan mueller, a staff writer for new york times magazine, our consulting produces firmer talks and part of influence, and the series interviews they're exclusive reporting, and happy to have them here. thanks so much, i appreciate it, jimmy to start with, you the largest media empire in history, give us some perspective of how big and powerful, and profitable of the murdoch family empire is. >> just look at what they have here in the united states the fox news channel, the fox broadcast network, the wall street journal, the new york post. in the uk, they have the sun, the times of london, they control a lot of that newspaper marking, they control a lot of the news market in australia, a lot of the english speaking world they control news, and a lot of entertainment. >> and it's not always -- the journalistic integrity is not always there when it comes to the murdoch's media empire.

>> there is certainly image major political bias. and there is a preference for, sort of a tabloid style, i guess you'd say. >> you can't ignore the political influence of river rock, and he has that all on the culture in the world, how do you think it's been most strongly felt. >> i think that we probably got our clearest understanding of it, honestly, during the trump era, when we saw the network, fox news network kind of effectively kind of merge with the trump white house, and amplify the presidents messages, also in many cases influence the president's policy choices, so that in some ways has always kind of a combination for rupert murdoch, of a lifetime of the accumulation of power and influence kind of came to a

head with a trump white house. -- rupert murdoch was a late supporter of donald trump in 2016, i just wonder what role -- when it comes to the republican nominee. >> we're already seeing this where it's almost a repeat of 2016, where the family seems to be turning on trump yet again, we had at the same time trump's really pointed to the line. they're also giving a lot of air time to run desantis, so i think we will see a repeat of 2016, but there's always been this interesting dynamic between non-trump and fox news and especially its opinion hosts where the base audience of the opinion shows really likes donald trump so how much can they really break from him it'll be fascinating to watch. >> is there ever a difference between what actually airs on the fox news network, or what is in their tabloid newspapers and how that family really

feels? >> well if you feel about the because one of the two sides james murdoch has over the years been subtly and at times kind of more vocally resistant to some of those reporting on fox news, and has at times spoken publicly about it, at least through press releases. so yeah, there is consensus inside the family, in terms of rupert and his eldest son loughlin, who's really the heir apparent at this point, you don't see a lot of daylight, i don't think. >> what do you think the finley legacy will be? >> a family legacy will be, finding the populist right voice across many of the properties.

and the influence of rubber murdoch will be even bigger than that in terms entertainment, the fox network, the simpson's. >> we forget about the fox network, right? which is a sort of fledgling network became huge. what's the most surprising thing you learned through this? >> i mean, i think what was most interesting was the incredibly complicated family dynamics. the way that the children were sort of pitted against each other, competing for the empire, and the complicated feelings that they all had about each other, and about their father. >> and i would add to that, though, the resting on that family dynamic, is the influencer gonna have one democracy, and across english wreaking world. so it's not just a family drama, as a political drama. >> i really appreciate it, be sure you tune into the murdoch's empire of influence,

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