inventory. so basically he's the only witness, the only guy who can say this, and so what they're forcing donald trump to do is to take what he has done on fox news and actually come forward with real evidence in the court of law that is admissible, it's about speculation, that's not a super conspiracy theory, that he's been spewing all over the pace and come down and really show that he has got something. and he doesn't. the lawyers are never going to let him do that, because if he puts in a sworn statement, he is leading himself open for another charge of lying under oath to a federal court. so the bottom line is, he is toast. there is nothing he can do. [laughs] >> there is a consistency problem here, as he said many times, they're all kinds of things in those boxes, i didn't know what was in those boxes. so it's very hard to get from i didn't have an idea what was in the boxes to i know they planted things. do you agree with that? >> i completely agree. judge dearie is a no nonsense judge. he's not going to take pr statements and say that that has any merit in his court.

he's going to say, as these guys said, prove it. this is a very dangerous scheme for them to play. as nick said, this is just another criminal charge waiting on other criminal charges being investigated. >> how do they play it, than? >> i think they declare victory in some way and get out of this thing, because this is not going to end well for them. this is going to end with perjury charges. it's going to end with a hearing being called that they are not prepared for. and if they tried the pr strategy and judge dearie's court, it's going to be worse for the lawyers. >> okay. and politically it's terrible. but let me just say, they're gonna claim victory of some sort, some way. how does one do that in this

instance and then get out of this? how do you get out of it at this point? are they in for a penny, and for a pound? >> all we really care about is the mystery special master looking at the other items seized on the search. we never said we were going to take possession of or wanted custody of the classified us documents. we conceded we had no right to those. it's not terribly credible. like the briefs in their case. but it's one way they could try to declare victory. >> the exit strategy is just that, which is, okay, you deal with the classified stuff, we just wanted to make sure these other things aren't privileged, which is even harder, because the presidential records act of

1978 says presidential records are the property of the government, not the former president. so it's tangled. but remember, gone, the key here is, there are two strategies. there is a legal strategy that is going on in the courtroom, but then there is a propaganda strategy which is, which we saw the former president appear today on his own social media, wearing the coupon from qanon, where the qanon slogan, the storm is coming, and the other qanon slogan under it. he has never, he has never kept an arms length distance from qanon, the conspiracy group that has been responsible for an attempted shooting in washington, a homicide in new york city, and all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories. but if you're in the position right now are saying the fbi planted things, this is another witch hunt, another program by the deep state and its intelligence agencies, having the qanon echo chamber is gonna be helpful. so he's got a balance between what his lawyers are willing to do and what his followers can be revved up to do. >> is this desperation? >> of course. >> if you listen to what john

says -- >> it's desperation, and it's going nowhere. it's going down the toilet. this is prolifically just toxic, because he's going to keep this in the headlines right through the elections. >> you said how he gets out of it, they're gonna get out of, and they're gonna try, this is what you believe. but how do you untangle, legally, how do you untangle yourself from something that you have doubled and tripled down on? how do you untangle yourself? >> it's like vietnam. you declare victory and leave, even though you didn't win. >> but that's the examination of the documents, where we're kind of stuck in that drama right now. there is still the possession of the documents, there's the classified documents. so in that case, if you get exposure there or have we seen, is often happens, he throws

under is under the bus, where it's, the obstruction was the people who talk to the feds, not me. i didn't know, i wasn't. there >> i think that's part of it. but i think the bottom line is, the documents, the 11,000 documents don't really relate to the classified documents. but what they could relate to is what happened on january 6th. no one is really focused on that. remember the january six committee asked for documents from trump's white house, and they got certain documents. >> isn't this where the doj wanted, while they filed, why they file that appeal to be able to use and continue their investigation, because they don't know what those documents were? and that those documents may be leading to something, as what you are? saying >> absolutely right. >> so listen, what about the possibility of them opening of the special master saying i'm opening to witness here? i'm opening to witness to testify about these documents and the fbi search. does that lead to more legal peril for trump? >> i certainly think that that

is something the abate that the trump lawyers would be stupid to take. if they call the witnesses those people would have to be prepared to tow the trump line and judge dearie is going to cut to the quick and strength cross examining the witnesses himself. this is, as i said before, it's not going to and well, and what i think we are all saying is they had a short term standard g but they don't have a long term strategy because the long term strategy is win the fbi dusts the classified documents for fingerprints and find all the people who handled them, including the two that were in the former presidents desk, and then people are going to be running scared. when they realize that process is going to be underway, it will be a real problem for people handling documents they knew they should've had. >> john, one of the most astonishing things, excuses i've ever heard from anyone,

and i've heard a lot here, especially team trump over the last five or six years, was what he said about declassification last night on fox news. watch this. >> it doesn't have to be a process, as i understand it. different people say different things, but as i understand, if you're the president of the united states you can be classified just by saying it's declassified, even by thinking about it. >> i mean, wow. let me just get some of the background here. it is absurd because the special master, judge dearie, has already made it clear that the documents are classified, unless trump provide some sort of evidence of declassification. and there appears to be no evidence of declassification. so that is another false claim. >> you can order it to be declassified, but you have to give that order to someone, and then for it to be declassified that order has to be recorded and carried out. the dni, and i say this is a former deputy assistant director of the dni, but eli has all those documents and they're doing classification review. and they still classified, are

they still classified at the level they were when they left the white house? and so far the answer to all that is yes. so unless they find a memo saying declassify this document from the white house, that's highly unlikely. and you certainly can't think about it as declassified. you have to write it down somewhere. >> the thing that's crazy is that those words came out of his mouth. >> he actually said even by thinking about the classification. i think we've all read the statute. it's not there. >> in fact the one witness, the only witness that they have is donald trump himself. >> i'm too surprised that judge dearie didn't just laugh in his face or question him about that. that's the most absurd thing i have ever. heard >> it's the most absurd thing. it's like a child saying, i don't need the cookies or whatever and then the cookies,

the evidence is all over his face. it's bizarre. >> even more bizarre is the portion about the fee. it's basically set arp that no one trusts donald trump to pay the fee at the end of the day to the help that is working with judge dearie on this. if you look at that, they have set it up so they can hold dom trump in contempt if he doesn't pay his fees. i'll bet you there are lots of lawyers out there that represented donald trump that wish they had that provision in their engagement letters. >> fascinating conversation. you guys think it's over. you think he has any more moves on the chest for, not even the supreme court? >> now. not even a chance. the opinion of 11 circuit, three zip, it's well reasoned, it's on the money, there's no way that goes. >> according including two of his appointees. >> wow. thank you. good to see you. all of you. i want to bring in donald trump biographer donald d'antonio, who is the author of the book high crimes.

michael, good to see you. have you been listening to this conversation? what do you think? >> well, i think your panel is absolutely right, that the president, the former president doesn't have any moves laughed, and you can also see, across the spectrum, that he is running out of moves and running out of lies. that comment about how he could declassify things in his mind is the same lie that he told when he was deposed around 15 years ago when he said well, the value of my company is based on how i feel inside. so this is a person who has never expected concrete reality but he is running out of people who will listen to him when he offers his delusions. >> he's running out of people in the legal realm, right? judges and special masters. but he's not running out of supporters around the country. people who still believe he could declassify something like barbara eaton. on bewitched. or know that was i dream of jeanne. >> the issue of this whole problem, maggie haberman's reporting on trump's purported wealth -- >> let me say with the

reporting is, and then i'm gonna get, or because isn't exclusive detail. meg haberman's new book, the making of donald trump in the breaking of america, including the trump once received a lease payment entirely in gold bars. you are calling this the trumpiest thing you have ever heard. >> well, it really is the trumpiest thing i've ever heard. and alike so many trumpy things, you really have to question details and wonder, did it is actually happen? and if it actually happened, did it happen the way it was reported, or at least the former presidents people play it. and lastly, who was involved? so think about who might have

1000 pounds of gold hanging around? because that is what a few dozen bars of ghouls way. and they're worth 15 billion dollars. so the other question is, who has made $15 million that he wants to hide in gold bars? well we know what kind of people want to hide things like that. it's people who are, as donald trump said about immigrants, drug dealers. and criminals. and murderers. these are bad people that he has obviously in business with. the other thing that is happening here is that he identity, the identity of his family, and i actually think this ripples out to the self concept of all his followers. it's all crumbling. and this is devastating to them

as people but also as public figures and business leaders. >> listen, michael, i wonder, just sitting here listening to these three gentlemen, the gravity of this and the reality setting in for him and for the people, as you said, people he did business with, they are adults and they did that. but the people he co-opted around the country when this happens and then he's going to continue to lie to them and say i'm being attacked, i'm wondering how long it is before he starts to attack a special master and call the special master or rhino or a deep state or even a racist. look, he just attacks people. i'm just wondering what that's going to cause around the country. how it's going to cause people to react around the country.

and they're going to believe it or are they going to double down. and they're going to double down and believe it or not believe it and become disillusioned in some odd, weird, dramatic, violent thing might happen. >> it's a big challenge to the people who support donald trump because one moment after another, one day after another, there is a new revelation about how much he lied to them. and if you think about how people eventually turn, it is when there is that last straw and really everything that is coming out now is suggesting that the original things that he claimed about being so smart, about being so rich those were all lies from the start. and those of us around new york city and who have dealt with him for a number of years, knew this. another big issue that maggie raises is, his manipulation towards magazines and his threat to malcolm forbes t o

out-him as a gay man back around 1987. this notion that he was always campaigning to get a hire paid on the forbes list of the most wealthy is appalling. and i think that his followers are going to see that. >> thank you, michael. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> there you go. next, a tale of two elections. the midterms just 48 hours away, one of the issues driving democrats and republicans in the polls? ♪ hey, sorry i missed your game. it's okay. you see that? that's when i realized it's time to finally do the thing we've been talking about for years. so we're making plans for right now. ♪ careful. ♪ you know, opera isn't so bad. do you like it?

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would've said your crazy, it'll never happen. but it happened. >> for marilou -- the fall election is first and foremost about abortion rights. >> i thought that my generation had that issue solved, but apparently we don't. we're starting all over again. >> for gary hendricks, the november vote is primarily about president biden. >> the people aren't happy with what biden's doing, number one. >> and a chance to put a check on democratic policies in washington. >> he was just anti oil. i can see you wanting to save the environment, but do it at a pace that that's not going to hurt the world. >> it's one midterm election, but to entirely different campaigns are underway in new hampshire, and across the country. democrats are trying to tap into an urgent desire to protect abortion rights and

democracy. that message resonates with laura miller, a pediatrician who said she paid little attention to politics before the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. >> does that make you more motivated to vote? >> it did, definitely. now i feel like, okay, we need to get out and actually vote. i don't even know that it makes a difference, but i feel that now i need to because i have an opinion. >> was that ever something that you thought could happen, in your lifetime? >> no, i didn't. i think that's what scares me with politics. >> republicans believe inflation, crime and immigration will motivate voters to change course. >> michael as fiona small business and said economic concerns are paramount. >> the cost operate my business are astronomically more than

they used to be. finding employees is next to impossible. >> you hope the november rings a change in washington, in terms of -- ? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> this tell of two elections is playing out in a crush of campaign ads from coast to coast. on prime -- hammering democrats. >> he's more worried about criminals than victims. >> spending more than $21 million on ads in the last -- month alone. while democrats have invested less than 5 million. on abortion, democrats are dominating the airwaves. >> carrie lake is serious. serious about criminalizing abortion. >> spending 46 million over the last month and adds. republicans only 4 million. in new hampshire, where key races will help determine control of the house and senate, election integrity is now also at play. >> 2020 election was undoubtedly stolen from president trump. >> inside her store, -- voiced concerns about the country's deep divide. the question is whether that becomes a voting issue, in the final weeks of the race. >> we should all be standing up and supporting this country and this democracy because there are those that are trying to tear down. through their anger and false

information that's out there. >> usually, by now, midterm election campaign is revolving around one issue. that does not seem to be the case, at least so far right now. there are two very different elections unfolding in realtime. democrats pushing abortion rights, democracy. republicans talking about prime memorization inflation. the winning strategy, the winning theories here could well determine which party wins, come november. don? >> jeff, thank you. the midterms are less than 50 days away, democrats are running on abortion rights and democracy, as justin said. -- whose ideas will win out, we'll discuss next.

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president package of policing and public safety bills today, that after months of negotiations and hours of late

minute -- democrats are hoping that this will be on some of the attacks from the gop calling the party anti police. that's all happening with less than 50 days until the midterms and as both democrats and republicans hone in on what they're considering winning issues for voters. for more, i want to bring in -- scott jennings, also -- a democratic political strategist and ceo of data and pulling. good evening to both. tom, let's start with you. it's a tale of two elections here. each side focusing on different issues, democrats, abortion in democracy. republicans -- here are the data export, which party has upper hand right now? does either of them? >> honestly, the fact that you're even asking me this question at this point. a month ago, it would've been a question. republicans were on their way to an easy win. i don't think you can find many people who disagree. we saw, you know, look, the

history is in midterm elections, the party that's not in the white house, that isn't in control, winds, easily. republicans were a bit on cruise control until the dobbs decision. then, you, know something different happened. we saw what happened -- we saw women registering to vote, i levels no one has ever seen before. we saw the special elections where democrats are energized. the question of who has our hands, it's impossible to say at this point. i think democrats have the energy on their side, when you look at voter registration, when you look at turnout, and the alaska special. we still have about seven weeks to go. >> listen, if those things that you mentioned -- you show that the woman voter registration, if that happened

close to the election you couldn't read more into that but i think republicans -- correct me if i'm wrong, always come home. and are under pulled in elections. you know, you've got roe v. wade being andra turned. that's a big motivating factor -- there certainly going to rile up the geo -- you see what's happening with ron desantis and so on. could this, do you think, that could also fire democrats? >> i don't actually think so. i think as much as republicans are focused on immigration, they're also focused on the economy, inflation, cost of living. there was a big nbc news survey over the weekend and they asked a very simple question, what's more important to your vote. i had tributes on dealing with cost of living or -- cost of living was 59%, abortion was 37. i actually think the discipline republican campaign can use make use of immigration -- the real issues of the economy

and inflation. democrats are obviously choosing to focus on something else, but the biggest issue in the race is never going away. the discipline to stay on it is what's critical for republican campaigns. you >> said the discipline -- do you think they're all disciplined? i'm asking because i do stick this excellent about the quality of republican candidates, when you have these people talking about women suffrage -- >> some are and some aren't. i'm sure my debating power tonight would -- not all candidates are created equally. when it comes to discipline and the ability to stay on message. down the stretch, it's clear to me that in our data, we see that cost of living, quality of life kind of campaign that's ultimately going to make the difference. it's not just immigration, inflation, it's also -- >> that's what i want to talk about. democrats are making this push to push back a narrative that the party is anti police and soft on crime. today's house -- the house democrats passing package of -- is that going to be enough to

really blond to the gop attacks because. it seems like it's coming a bit late in the game. >> republicans clearly want to bring this election back on to their turf. that's what you're seeing with these migrant floods. they want the conversation to not be about choice. they wanted to be about crime. i think what democrats are doing is smart but in the end these voters are going to be focused on the -- human right president has been overturned. when we talk about these polls, look, the poll said democrats were going to lose new york 19. polls from democratic internal campaign polls. the poll said democrats were going to lose the alaska special election the poll said that the kansas abortion vote was going to be a one-point vote. the pro-choice position won by almost 20 points.

democrats won in alaska they, one in new york. i understand the republicans are trying to shift it back to a more comfortable playing field. you look at the generic ballot, today, if you look at the average of the -- which is a little bit in the weeds but it's our best indicator of where things stand in the battle for control of the house, democrats here -- in the past 451 days -- >> i agree with you. i understand that. wasn't that close to the impact -- that's when it -- that's when the bomb went off. it was closer to what happened. as we get further away from the shock of that event of roving overturned, you don't think that will also have an impact when people lose interest and may not be as motivated? >> i think we're seeing is the shot continue. when you see lindsey graham talk about filing a bill for a national federal abortion ban, the issue is going to weigh. we're seeing stories of --

basic health care. what we are seeing is not only the voter registration still surging a more than women and younger voters, there's some states that are actually beginning to process the voting. it is a georgia or pennsylvania, voters can request ballots already. what we're seeing in those states is that democrats and women are requesting ballots at a much higher rate than they have in the past elections, including 2020. >> does that where you, scott? >> not really. on the crime issue, which we started with, you're seeing this play out in individual races like pennsylvania and wisconsin, where republicans are going heavily into the -- on fetterman and barnes. i do think that salient and i think it's too little too late for the dems. on the abortion question, i disagree with tom. i think grams position is fairly defensible. 15 weeks in the three exceptions. it gives any republican no reasonable -- and if you're willing to lean into it. again, i'll go back to where i

started. that's where the republican campaign is going to be one. it's going to be one on the cost of living quality of life. >> i don't disagree with that. i think those issues are always at the top of the list, but i think that whether people believe that's where republicans position -- and then not -- you know, trying to do something else. >> i think there's a difference, for what is, worth between incumbents and people who have been teladoc for. you're still shaping your view -- >> >> thank you both. a disgraceful scene had an alex jones second defamation trial over his incendiary false statements about the sandy hook shooting. we're going to show you what happened next. oh ms. flores. you're the leader of many and pet wrangler, too. so becoming a student again might seem impossible. national university is here to support all of you. national university. supporting the whole you.

the antics today.

the foreign media personality, alex jones, taking the stand of the trial that will determine how much those families of the sandy hook victims, suing him for defamation in connecticut. jones has spent his career embracing in spreading conspiracy theories, also claiming that the school shooting was a hoax, and that grieving families were crisis actors. -- after a month -- determine the jones and his company should award to sandy hook parents nearly $50 million -- >> he's really, isn't he? >> yes. >> -- you put a target on his back, didn't you? >> objection. >> didn't? you >> it's true. -- >> you put a bar target on his back, just like you did every single parent and love -- >> no i didn't. -- >> you search motions on and off when you want.

why don't you show a little respect? >> objection, judge! >> joey jackson is here, cnn legal analyst. joey, gosh, i don't know how those families restrain themselves like that. i would've jumped across the table. just the disrespect. >> yeah. it's a problem, don. just putting this in context. you're talking about a situation where you have 20 children dead, six educators dead -- -- and limit gun control. saying all of these things. those have consequences. not only do you have grieving families that have to endure hurtful statements, where someone is making money off of them, but then you have people buying into these conspiracy theories and taking them out in the family. without question, if you would've jumped over the wall and really got at them, it's very difficult, i'm, sure for the families to contain themselves, when you have somebody spouting just such ridiculousness a not accepting accountability. very difficult to watch, very little respect for the process in the decorum of the court that is alex jones. let's see what happens next when the jury gets their hands on the case and has to deliberate over damages, which is what they're assessing now. >> it's sad because people like him are becoming the norm. that way of thinking -- the podcast or blogs, or social media. -- -- [inaudible] >> it is important to know -- --

will be subject to a contempt hearing. do you think that's where this could be headed? >> i think it could be. look, when you have a situation, there's not a situation -- contentious in a courtroom. that's the nature of the beast. -- pay attention to the process and respect the process. ultimately, part of that process is accountability. everyone, don, has opinions in those opinions should be respected. there's a distinction between an opinion and in fact. there's a distinction between spouting an opinion about what you believe, what you like, what you dislike, and specifically saying what didn't happen -- and that's what this is all about, defamation. -- ultimately if he doesn't respect that process, just for menagerie briefly, why are we here. he defaulted, what does that mean? he was found to be responsible to be liable by default, did not share evidence with the other side, did not share information, -- -- you know what, you're liable. now we're going to go and allow a jury to determine how much you're going to pay those families for what you said. it just goes about from the outset, a total lack of disrespect and a quorum. -- valuing what is actually true,

it happened, right? december 2012 -- now here we are in terms of his accountability, we'll see what the jury does with respect to that. >> joey jackson, thank you very much. i appreciate it. we'll be right. back

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welcome to all of you watching in the united states, in canada and here around the world. ahead on cnn news room, residents in occupied parts of ukraine are set to vote on whether to become part of