♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa the news continues. let's hand it over to sara sidner and "cnn tonight." >> i'm sara sidner and this is "cnn tonight." among all the legal peril mounting for donald trump, new information about a new drama playing out in court you haven't heard about until now. a secret fight between donald trump's lawyers and the justice department over its intensifying january 6th investigation. under grand jury secrecy rules, this dispute is under seal. but we have learned the ex-president's team was in d.c. federal court thursday trying to block a federal grand jury from gathering information from former top trump aides about his

attempts to overturn the 2020 election. it's the most aggressive step, perhaps, taken by donald trump to assert executive and attorney-client privileges to keep witnesses from cooperating with that investigation. how this fight is resolved could determine whether the firewall around donald trump falls, opening the flood gates about what aides and lawyers were telling him on and around january 6 and what decisions he was making. this comes as the january 6 committee is about to hold its first public hearing in more than two months. that's going to happen next wednesday. it could be the final hearing before the panel releases its final report. and of course the suspense is building about what its end game will be. will the committee formally recommend a criminal prosecution of donald trump to the doj in connection with the capital attack? that remains a possibility. in the classified documents case, the trump team has until

next friday to present proof to a special master that would back up allegations that the fbi planted evidence when agents searched his home. and he now faces a criminal lawsuit for fraud in new york filed this week by a state attorney general. this is a civil lawsuit, not criminal, excuse me, who believes that donald trump committed crimes while trying to enrich himself through alleged financial schemes. while she is going after him civilly, she has also referred her findings to the doj and the irs. at a rally tonight, donald trump tried to garner sympathy from his supporters. >> there's never been a president that's gone through the crap that i'm going through left and right. the document hoax. we have a document hoax. attorney general, new york state, every single day, i'm suing him. i'm going to sue him. and then i'm going to go home and i'm going to be so happy because i sued him!

>> all righty then. for more on where all this could lead, we turn to cnn political commentator van jones, former principle deputy assistant attorney general tom dupree, and cnn political commentator scott jennings, back for more. welcome, gentlemen. thank you for being here. okay. i want to start with you, van. you know, you listen to what you just heard. does it work? because to be fair, the polling from people who support him has not come down. in fact, in some cases, it's gone up. >> he has a hard core pace of supporters that are with him. if he said the moon is made of blue yogurt, they would go get a spoon. they don't care. they love the whole thing. and people on our side who are progressives and democrats don't like him. i think what you've got to look at is the people in the middle. the middle is small. how do they feel about all this stuff? it starts to get lumped in with

the overall disgust and frustration with all the nonsense in the system. and it begins to erode his ability to win an general election if he gets the nomination again. >> i think van is right about that, by the way. if you look at some of the polling nationally that's come out lately, you can just see him dropping a few points every time, losing to joe biden. and i suspect this is where some republican will come at him in the 2024 primaries like, look, i appreciate everything you did, but we can't afford to lose to joe biden again. i also think van's right about his core supporters. he's been in turmoil ever since he started. we've done a lot of years now of the walls are closing in on donald trump. and he's constantly in turmoil. but never been indicted. you know, been impeached and acquitted twice. never quite gotten there. and until somebody gets there on him, i don't think his sup supporters are going to regard any of this as anything other than what he calls it, which is a witch hunt. i'm interested in their opinion on this and yours.

the interest of tish james gives trump a little hook to hang onto. i suspect merrick garland is not a fan of having a prosecutor involved in what he's trying to keep as a non-partisan process. >> you won't get my opinion. but i will ask the opinion of our guests here. tom, i do want to ask you. there are so many legal issues piling up. let's put politics aside. how can you juggle all these things? i mean, where is this headed? >> it's complicated. i mean, you need a scorecard to map out the daily legal developments. i think donald trump right now is in his element. he hasn't been indicted. he's fending off multiple attacks from different prosecutors. i think for the prosecution it may be different for the public to distinguish between a lot of these different cases. and donald trump is doing what he loves to do which is to attack the prosecutors, which is to turn the taebls. this is where he likes to be. i'm not sure he likes to be

indicted, if that's ultimately where we go. but at this stage of the game, i think it's fair to say we saw from the rally tonight, he's in his element. >> so, there is the element of money here. why hasn't donald trump gone ahead and said he's going to run if you think he is going to run? is there a reason for that? >> i mean, there's some campaign finance implications to saying -- just like joe biden the other night said he wasn't quite ready to say he was running because there are campaign finance implications to declaring your candidacy for president. i'm sure that's top of mind. i'm sure some of these things also weigh on his mind too. anyone waking up every day with all this stuff weighing over their head, i'm sure it's anxiety-inducing and stressful and it does maybe cause you to think twice. i do expect him to run, and obviously the polls show he's the most likely person to be the republican nominee. i suspect it has most to do with just the implications of declaring your candidacy more than anything. >> we have perhaps a last

january 6th committee hearing that may be coming, may be the last coming up on wednesday. i want you to look to jamie raskin, who gave a tiny preview, if you will, of what more we might here. and van, i'm going to have you respond. >> someone who i think saw where things were going. there were clearly people who understood the preparations that were taking place. and if you think you almost knocked over the government of the united states spontaneously, then you haven't been paying close attention. >> so, he is talking about roger stone there. but there have been a lot of people who have spoken. we're expecting to hear from more, potentially hearing more depositions. has this damaged donald trump and his potential run in any way in your opinion? >> i think it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. i think not for his core base. i think his core base feels he's being persecuted. and this sort of -- himself --

donald trump is the righteous victim being persecuted on your behalf. that resonates with his base. democrats will look at that and say, gee, this is a party that's supposed to be for law and order embracing lawlessness, supposed to be for personal responsibility. he's taking no responsibility for anything. you have reasonable republicans who just want a pathway to victory, and all of these becomes pebbles on the path, become stones in the shoe of anybody who's running with that kind of baggage. and they will begin, possibly, to look for other champions. so, the problem for him is when it's primary season, does a desantis or anyone else say, as was said earlier, you can't get there with this much baggage. let someone else with the same politics get there without the baggage. and every time one of these things happens, i guarantee you at least one more republican joins the camp up. i need a new champion. all you need is a few of them to have a competitive primary. >> how likely might it be that

there are charges eventually because of january 6 and then after what letitia james has sort of laid out in her civil suit about potential money fraud and irs fraud? >> yeah, on the tish james front, i don't think that is too likely to result in criminal charges for the reason the federal prosecutors have been looking at this, they have most if not all of the evidence that tissue james had. they chose to pass on it. the mar-a-lago incident seems more likely to possibly result in a criminal charge at the end of the day. but it's not clear to me that merrick garland would say i'm going to take the step of indicting a former president. is it possible he indicts someone else in the chain, a lawyer who signed the declaration or who is engaged with the justice department? maybe. it would be a momentous, historic event for maerrick garland and president biden to pull the trigger and indict a

former president of the united states. >> there have been a lot of people who have gone to jail around donald trump. at what point does that start to stop and people start to say, all right, enough? or never? >> well, i think for the hard core trump base, never. i think it's about 50/50. if you look at the polling, you know, there's about half the republicans that want him again and half that don't. the problem for the rest of the republicans that don't want him is they're all fragmented among a bunch of people. he got 45% of the vote in the republican primary in '16. he's never been a majority maker in terms of general or primary elections. and he wouldn't be necessarily in this case either. so, the fragmentation protects him as well as the base, which is, as van said, unshakable. >> we will be right back, gentlemen. scott, you're going to stick with me. we've seen a lot of low blows in politics, especially with the midterms fast approaching. but did a candidate for governor go too low today by making light of a plot to kidnap her

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. today the dow jones plunged to its lowest level since 2020, ending yet another dismal week for the markets, as fears grow about a potential recession. inflation remains a key concern for americans, with the price of groceries and other goods remaining stubbornly high. house minority leader kevin mccarthy zeroed in on these economic concerns today as he unveiled the republican party's legislative agenda with just two weeks to go until the midterm elections. >> as we went across this country listening, we heard the same thing kitchen table to dining room table to inside the factory. can i afford it? can i afford to fill my tank? can i afford the food, the milk? can i find baby formula?

>> we're joined by david swerdlick, senior editor at ""the new york times" opinion section, a lot of jobs. good for you, good for you. is the old adage still true? does it still hold true even in these times that it's the economy stupid? >> yeah, it sure would have. that's where things were just a few months ago. this was going to be a referendum on the biden economy. you want more inflation, vote for biden. and then you had the decision to take abortion away from american women, and it changes everything. and then joe biden started winning. and he started showing, hey, i can pass bills that can help when it comes to gun safety. i can pass bills that can help with the climate. i can help with student loans. suddenly it's a choice. used to say, both parties are the same, who cares?

you can't say that now. thee are two very different parties with two very different agendas. and i think it is now a choice election, not a referendum election. so, it used to be the economy stupid. i think it's now the economy plus a whole concern about the direction of the country. this is like a general election than a midterm election. >> what is your take on that? the republicans have talked about inflation, crime, and the sort of -- i don't know if you want to call it the war of words over what's happening in schools, right? some of these things have come up. who is going grasp the public's need? who's going to be able to fulfill the needs of the public right now? >> the argument of the public is cost of living, quality of life. i hope nobody looked at their 401ks today. goodness. mortgage rates are high. inflation is at a 40-year high

despite the president poo pooing all that. if you're a republican candidate f you're kevin mccarthy, democrats are trying to emphasize issues where they're more trusted. i just think there are more economically focused voters in the country. i think it's a bigger bucket of voters to get than the abortion voters. in fact, nbc poll this past sunday, it was about 60/40, people caring more about cost of living positions versus abortion positions. i think it's smart for republicans to focus on this. it boils down to two things, cost of living, quality of life. >> we just had a picture up there to show people kind of where americans are. i want to let you listen to president biden on the role of women and how important the role of women could be in the midterms. >> i don't believe the maga republicans have a clue about the power of american women.

let me tell you something, they're about to find out. >> you're about to find out. can we put those numbers back up on what americans are really concerned about. okay. inflation, 30%. abortion, a close second. and then you've got health care, january 6th. that is usually lumped in with democracy and what's happening. david, i'm curious about looking at that and hearing from president biden about the role of women. how big do you think that role will be? >> sara, people are concerned about all those issues. i also think they're concerned about whether the president or the opposition passes a two hands on the wheel test, right? who has a plan for where they want to take the country, even if they haven't solved every single problem. something like the dow, if it continues to dump toward 20,000, president biden has a problem. if it corrects after the market prices in these interest rate hikes, he's probably okay. when biden is talking about the role of women, i think he's talking a lot about what

happened in the last election, where the parties split a lot with white women with college degrees in the suburbs. they broke for biden because they had had enough of trump. but if they have now had enough of biden, then you're going to maybe see some of those voters -- and those are some of the key voters between those 45 yard lines, the purrersuadables that could hurt biden if democrats don't stay out of this. >> let's go to michigan where governor gretchen wilson is up for re-election. her opponent repeatedly joked about the 2020 kidnapping plot against her. i was there when all this went down, and it really terrified a lot of people in politics in general. people were getting death threats. and to see this happen and then what happened later on, january 6th, this was a moment where a lot of people thought it was bad taste. let's listen in. >> the sad thing is that

gretchen will tie your hands, put a gun to your head, and ask if you're ready to talk. for someone so worried about being kidnapped, gretchen whitmer sure is good at taking business hostage and holding it for ransom. >> scott, is this a good idea to say something like that? >> no. i mean, no. this campaign is flailing to some degree. if you look at the polling averages, she's down 10-12 points. whitmer constantly floats in the 50-52% range. i think they're losing. and i think sometimes when people are losing in campaigns, they resort to bad instincts and they start to try to do what they think is throwing the ball down the field. but sometimes when you throw it down the field and you're down a couple of touchdowns, it gets intercepted. and that's what's happening rights here. this is not smart. by the way, it's also not -- these things aren't really jermaine to the core issues

we're talking about. if you want to remain focused on pocketbook issues, that would be one thing. i don't think this sort of towel snapping is going to resonate with most persuadables. >> can i quickly turn to something that's happened. there's a new super pac that trump has meant to support republicans and to support republican candidates that support donald trump. what do you make of this? and should democrats be worried about something like this? because money does help push yesterdays or at least push candidates forward. >> first of all, trump has a big pile of money himself. he's not using up anybody. part of what's happening is his allies are having to put together money to do what he should be doing himself. it's amazing how loyal his base is to him and how much loyalty he expects from other politicians. he doesn't return that loyalty very often. he's sitting on a big pile of cash himself. you asked a big question, should democrats be worried? i think absolutely. there's something happening in our politics. i put it back on the supreme

court, letting all this money come into politics. really the money primary is sometimes as big or more important than any other primary. you've got to open up the flood gates for money. and you've got -- now we talk about russia and the oligarchy there. we have billionaires on both sides that just pour wheelbarrows of cash into our system. i don't think that's good. but i don't think democrats should take anything for granted. i think it's very, very concerning. i was happy that trump was sitting on all that cash, but apparently his friends are not happy. they're trying to fix it. >> i think, if i may, i think it's smart for him to finally get in the game because he was getting a ton of criticism from republicans for hoarding this money. i know the people running it. long history of running successful operations in campaigns. i would expect him candidly to be engaged in the states where trump was heavily engaged in the primary. some of those folks are the ones struggling the most with campaign financing right now. for him to ride in and try to help out, smart politics for him.

could be good for the republican candidates. >> republicans may be -- a little bit of this is that republicans are caught off guard. 2021, the white house democrats didn't have a story to tell. chips, burn pits, getting justice jackson confirmed, got the budget with senator manchin finally, and i think now they realize they need more money and more juice to try and flip the congress. >> okay, everyone, stay here. don't run away. we are a nation divided over so many issues, including the freedom to read. on this ban books week, our next guest will put a spotlight on what's being challenged in american schools, bookstores, and libraries. he's author of a pulitzer prize winning author that's taken center stage in this cultural battle. that's next.

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are launching banned book week to celebrate the freedom to read. it's also meant to draw attention to the effort to ban books across the united states of america that recently accelerated. over just the past year, more than 2,500 books were banned. those bans were enacted in 32 states with texas and florida leading the nation. the result, more than 1,600 titles have been pulled from school shelves, many that highlight themes of race and lgbtq issues. the most frequently challenged book this year was "gender queer," a graphic novel about coming out as non-binary. also including "beloved" and "to kill a mockingbird" and "the catcher in the rye," as well as "mouse" about the holocaust. it depicts jews as mice and cats as nazis.

joining me now is the author of mt. mouse." thank you so much for joining the program, art. >> there are so many books banned at a record rate, and we're in the 21st century. why is this happening in your estimation? >> this particular round has a lot to do with, first of all, the ever-heating up polarization of america. and therefore both sides seem to be involved in yanking books out of people's hands somehow. and i think just like the subject of the book "mouse," i just feel that there's autocracy in the air. there's fights to remove freedoms, not to grant them, with at least 40% of america supporting such notions. and it doesn't seem like it's going to end any time soon. >> what is this going to mean for the future of -- you know, everyone likes to talk about freedom of speech. what is this going to mean for the future of america if more and more books are banned, some

of them classics, some of them -- "beloved" was the reason i started loving to read. >> i hear you. well, what will it mean? it will probably mean better sales for those books until they start killing the authors rather than just snatching the books away from readers because, you know, there's a spectrum on all this. the book banning i experienced was actually like my shrewd marketers in tennessee decided to yank it from the curriculum. and it was announced pretty much the day before holocaust remembrance day back earlier this year. and as a result, my book has shot up to the top of the best seller list again. and i didn't need the favor, although it's kind of the tennessee school board to do it because the book's been doing just fine over the last 40 years. >> what is it about your book you think that had a school district decide to strip it from the curriculum? >> i think it's a good question.

i've been kind of chewing on it because in a way i think i've just been, like, a drive-by shooting. i'm just cannon fodder in the culture war. most of the books that are being banned like the ones you mentioned have to do with race and gender. and as somebody on the school board, one of the ten people who hadn't read the book but unanimously decided to ban "maus," one of them was being defensive and said, don't get me wrong, i love the holocaust. what they were complaining about was what they called a nude women, which i got upset about because most of the characters were mice. the bit about my mother's suicide, which had been done several years earlier, inserted into the book, had my mother's naked corpse in the bathtub after she had slashed her wrists in that bathtub. and it's a rather chaste picture. a naked corpse is a better description than a nude woman. i think the real reason it was

banned is because my book is about the mud slide toward authoritarianism. i define my father's authority, my mother's authority, there was a wrestling match in my household growing up. even though the story is specific, trying as hard as i could to reinhabit my party's experiences through a series of interviews when we talk about what happened to him. and the characters are wearing cat masks, mouse masks, dog masks, pig masks, to represent the different groups. on that level, it's mythic. even though i was as accurate as i could be about the specifics of the story -- that's what i was trying to reinhabit. the construct deals with all othering, not just jews, and i think that's why it's useful in schools. the fact that it's told from -- i must interrupt myself and say

i never meant this for kids. the bhoel point of working on this 13-year-old book was to make a demonstrable proof that comics can be for grown-ups. i can't complain because it's been written out between middle school and graduate school quite a lot over these years. and sometimes i meet rather dopey grad school students who don't get it and lots of middle school students who do. it's not the same as the banning you were talking about when they're yanking things out of libraries, putting teachers and librarians under fire, often with personal jobs attached. they're really heroic. >> are you worried -- you made a comment about taking out the authors, which was surprising. but are you worried about escalation of this? >> in general, yeah. i mean, look what happens to sa salman rushdie and a bunch of other religious fanatics deciding to punish people for

what they write. >> he was stabbed multiple times. >> of course i'm worried. and you know, hate crimes are way up. i live near chinatown. and the chinese community is under threat. the hispanic community is under threat. us jews tend to be honorary whites for the moment, even though i think that confused whoopi goldberg for a minute or two. but nevertheless -- >> but there's been quite a bit of anti-semitism. it has gone up -- >> that's been on the rise as well, yeah. >> yeah. art spiegelman -- >> gender and race seems to be where the focus is. >> art, i really appreciate your time. thank you so much for coming on. we're going to talk more about culture wars in your schools just ahead, including governor ron desantis leading the change in florida. but the history lesson he offered this week was a work in fiction. the confrontation between a student and teacher over the pledge of allegiance. now that teacher is out of the

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in school and offered this up. >> it was the american revolution that caused people to question slavery. no one had questioned it before we decided, as americans, that we are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights, and we are all created equal. you can't history that's being used to pursue an ideological agenda. >> back with me, van jones, david swerd lick, and scott jennings. van -- >> sorry, sorry. >> i had the same reaction. slavery didn't end technically until 1865. 1776 -- that's almost -- >> first of all, you reveal a lot when you're speaking about stuff you don't know anything about. he says, nobody questioned slavery until -- you know who questioned it? the enslaved people. >> the slaves. >> the enslaved people questioned it the whole time. and that's the thing. it's like you have a world view

that's so centrist and so privileged, particular ideological agenda that you say things that are patently ridiculous. there are kids in that state of all colors, all faiths, all hughes, and he has to do a better job representing all of them. and also the reality is kids aren't stupid. i've got a couple of them. try to get them to believe something. try to get them to believe something. they push back. they fight back. they think. they have their own points of view. the idea that if you present an idea to a kid the kid is just going to swallow it whole, it's not true. it's not true about kids. it's not true about human beings. what's dangerous is when you don't let young people discuss the world around them. he's concerned there are some people here who are anti-american, anticapitalist, antiwhite, anti -- those people are a problem. but the way you deal with those things is that you talk about it. when you don't talk about it,

you're not able to address it. i was very offended. and i'm very -- i try to put up with a bunch of stuff. but for him to say that nobody criticized slavery until the slave holding american fathers, founding fathers, decided to raise it -- and not all of them did -- disqualifies 200 people of people enslaved. >> the state has banned, i think it's the second highest number of banned books in the state. is this a winning tactic? i mean, if you will? this is just strictly politically. >> i think what you're seeing some republican office holders respond to is the concern they're hearing from some parents about some certain kinds of topics, materials, books, whatever you want to call it being introduced to their children. and they don't agree with it. at its core, you have parents who don't want very, very young children being talked to about,

you know, sexualized material by people other than them. and so i think that's at the root of the tactic. whether it goes too far in certain instances and whether people are able to discern between, you know, who can handle what, i think that's the debate we're going to have. >> you see a difference between the sexualized material, the gender conversation, multiple genders, et cetera, versus american history, slavery, that kind of thing. i just wonder how you see it. >> oh, yeah. and i think in this debate and in this chononversation, all th things get lumped together. >> absolutely. >> so, there's no doubt republican officials, office holders, are hearing daily from parents who have grown quite concerned about this. so, as a tactical matter, they're responding to that. and, you know, i've got a few of them myself. and i've talked to a lot of parents at schools. and one of the core things i hear from parents is, you know,

why are the schools spending so much time on topics that aren't sort of the core learning curriculum that i grew up with. that's what they're responding to. and let me tell you, it is a rising sentiment in the republican party. i expect it will be a major topic over the next two to four years. >> it's definitely a rising sentiment. but it also has been pushed. there's no doubt that this has been something -- i think we heard it from a couple of different leaders in the republican party who purposely targeted school boards in particular and said this is the next bastion of where a fight needs to go. what do you think about using schools as a political battleground? >> you're exactly right, sara. at some point republicans decided making the whole country the town in the movie "foot loose" and so far it has worked. i think until it doesn't work and especially for someone like

governor desantis who wants to be president, they're going to keep doing it. i agree with scott that parents do sometimes say, look, at the elementary school level, we should focus on reading, writing, arithmetic. maybe it's not the time to focus on social justice issues if that's what they think is going on. i don't think that's always really what they think is what's going on. on the other hand, once you get to middle school, high school, to van's point, we had slavery and segregation in this country. we had japanese internment and the zoot suit riots. we fought a civil war over slavery. to shield students at a certain age from those facts, from those realities who are benefitted who are suffered, what happened, how we got where we are now, is not educating kids. and i think that message has gotten lost in this whole debate. >> i want to ask you about this video that has gone viral.

it's a tiktok video of a teacher telling a student to stand up for the pledge of allegiance. let's watch it. >> then go back to -- where are you? mexico? guatemala? and you won't stand up for the flag. >> so, the teacher says, where are you from? i why won't you stand up. he starts asking him where he's from. you can hear a student giggling in the background. the school district sent out a statement saying the teacher no longer has contact with students, strongly condemning the behavior. the concern was that he was trying to say the student was from somewhere else or wasn't american. what are your thoughts on that? >> i think that if teachers want to address something with a student regarding any kind of behavior that they don't like or

some disagreement they're having in the classroom, it's best to do that in private, and it's best to do that in a respectful manner. >> not to shame them in front of other students. >> i mean, look, i understand why he was relieved because any time you start to talk to people like that, a, that's bad. but, b, when you start to do it in front of others makes it even worse. so, look, i was raised to stand for the pledge of allegiance, and i certainly would. but, again, i just think the interactions between teachers and students in front of other people -- and kids are vulnerable. they're nervous. and they're easily -- you know, it's embarrassing to be called out by an adult like that in a setting like that. i think handling things privately and thinking through your interaction carefully is vital. >> all right. van jones, david swurd lick, scott jennings, thank you guys so much. and we'll be right back.

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it's called havana syndrome after being first reported in havana cuba in 2016. since then, officials after official have reported the same symptoms including conclusion-like injuries like vertigo, headaches and brain fog. last month, the cia started compensating agents who suffered traumatic brain injuries as a result of this syndrome but so far, there have been no clear answers as to why this is happening. our very own and very fabulous dr. sanjay gupta traveled to havana to investigate a new cnn special report and you're joining us now. this is so interesting to me. i cannot wait. >> it's been so fascinating and perplexing at the same time. because you have constellation symptoms. what was causing that? one possible answer was from the

national academy of medicine and sciences that said this could have been a directed energy using microwave energy and that got me wondering are there technologies that do that? there is a gentleman that's a neuro scientists and does a lot with national defense. we talked to him about this. he thinks the answer is yes, the technologies exist and they are being used. here is a little preview of our conversation. >> i went to cuba. i spent time talking to scientists and they whole heartily uniformly believe that there were no attacks, and they say there is no evidence at all that these happened. >> i solemnly disagree with that. >> could they have done this in a country and the country not known? >> no doubt. not at all. the equipment could be assembled

on site. the components could be brought into the country piecemeal. >> how big could this weapon potentially be? >> the device itself would be about the size of this bench or perhaps a little smaller. >> and how far away would it need to be or could it be to actually deliver this energy? >> dozens of meters. the reality is these devices exist. the science and technology is real and they represent weapon new izeble entities. >> i got to tell you before going into reporting on this, i was skeptical. i didn't know about energy directed weapons and i didn't know how they could cause these impacts on the brain. i thought it was science fiction. what i've learned and this is pretty clear, these technologies do exist. they've existed for a long time, and over the past few decades, they've gotten more precise. they've gotten better in terms of actually being able to cause these injuries in individuals. >> can you tell us what types of devices are capable of transferring this type of -- is

it a microwave that sort of hits you? >> well, so, if you think about the energy of what they call the electro magnetic spectrum. they were describing something that might not be that big. in the past it may have been carried in a vehicle but much smaller now. he said that park bench but could be smaller than that. these devices exist. nobody doubts that but using them in this way, there is no footprint or signature. >> i found interesting, your a journalist and doctor and brain sur surgeon. you do all the things and you went into this really skeptical. are you less skeptical? >> i think this is very possible. i think for some of those patients in havana because there were concerns austria, china, russia, those are less

clear but for two dozen people in havana with a very similar consolation of symptoms that didn't know about each other when they first started talking about symptoms, i think it's pretty clear something objectively happened to them. >> it's terrifying. thank you for doing this and coming on. c nrknn special report "immacul concussion" premieres this sunday at 8:00 p.m. just did a quick change and we'll be right back. s of bath os so we fit your style. our installers complete your work in as little as a day so we fit your schedule. our manufacturing team custom crafts your bathh so we fit your standards, and it's guaranteed for life. when you can trust the people who create your new bath, it just fits. bath fitter. visit bathfitter.com to book your free consultation.

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vr thank you for hanging out with me all week. it's been a real pleasure. "don lemon tonight" starts now. >> i'll sound like an old man. back in my day, i remember when fridays used to be -- i know you think i'm nuts. >> i'm worried where you're going. i'll be honest. >> friday, the standard news dump. people things wanted to hide they would dump but now, that's changed. like something happens every single day and the news just