tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN September 25, 2022 7:00am-8:00am PDT
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this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you from new york. ♪ ♪ on the program, the world came to new york this week for the u.n. general assembly. as vladamir putin threatened from afar an even more dangerous phase of this war on ukraine. >> just today, president putin has made overt nuclear threats against europe. >> i talk with the president of finland, who knows putin well.
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i also sat down with the president of south korea to ask about the threat from his neighbor to the north, who just declared itself a nuclear state. also, hijabs burned, protests rage and chants of "death to the dictator" ring out in iran after a woman dies in police custody there. what will come of the demonstrations? i will ask an expert. but first, here's my take. let's not play down what has happened this week. the leader of the world's largest nuclear power publicly threatened to use nuclear weapons. in an address in moscow on wednesday, vladamir putin declared that russia would use all weapons systems available to us to defend the country. he emphasized it.
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"this is not a bluff." it might be. putin's threat with add-ones of traditional soviet doctrine. now they contemplate scenarios which it could use nuclear weapons. but he knows the west has nuclear weapons of its own and that the doctrine of mutually assured destruction has prevented any power from deploying them since 1945. these kinds of threats must ramp up china and india. but what does it tell us that putin decided to make his statement any way? that the war is going very badly for him. this month, ukrainian forces routed the russian army in a stunning series of victories. putin's first response was to open a new ferris wheel in
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moscow, urging people to relax and enjoy life. a few days later, realizing that the relax strategy was not working, he scheduled a national television address during primetime. and then simply didn't show up. he did give the address the next morning, using the occasion to issue his nuclear threat. to understand how badly the ukrainian war has gone from putin's point of view, consider his decision to announce a partial mobilization. russia did not mobilize its population for the nine-year war in afghanistan. moscow has mobilized its citizenry for war twice since 1914. first on the eve of world war i. and then to defend against the invasion of the country by adolf hitler and germany in 1941. for putin in particular, this is a bitter pill. his basic social contract with the russian people has been, stay out of politics, and i will
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give you a stable, peaceful country in which you can make a decent living. this mobilization is the first time he has had to violate that contract. and for the first time in his 22-year reign, he faces opposition from both the right and the left. at least 1,300 war protestors have been arrested since putin's announcement. but more ominously, right wing nationalists are open hi criticizing the government for not prosecuting this war with greater zeal, manpower and firepower. when a war goes badly, people look for someone to blame. in a dictatorship so centralized, it's hard to see who to fault other than putin himself. his recent actions all raise the ante. in addition to threatening the use of nuclear weapons and mobilizing russians, he's signaled that four regions of ukraine will soon become part of
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russia. crimea was incorporated by moscow in 2014. this will make it harder to negotiate a peace deal, because under russian law, these areas would then be part of russian territory. annexation makes it easier to claim that ukrainian attacks on those territories are not part of a contested conflict but attack on russia itself, requiring any and all means to respond. of course, this will not deter the ukrainians. they know that russia has invaded their lands, destroyed their cities, tortured their people, and killed and wounded tens of thousands. they will fight to regain their country. and putin's threats are not going to stop the west from aiding and arming ukraine. so what is putin's game? and where does he go from here? no one knows, including perhaps putin himself. he has given some signals to india's president and president erdogan from turkey that he
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wants to negotiate. but the russian leader seems to be playing a high-stakes game, which he knows that the outcome could be catastrophic. it's still hard to see how even if he loses this war, anyone in moscow could dislodge him. more than perhaps any major nation in the world, russia is now ruled by one man. there are no institutions, no central committee, no monarchy, nothing. the largest country in the world with the most nuclear weapons, is ruled by one man. it is as he once described it, a vertical of power. and that vertical looks more unstable than ever. all of this suggests that we have entered one of the most dangerous periods in international affairs in our lifetimes. go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to my washington post column this week, and let's get started. ♪ ♪
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on tuesday, finland's president condemned russia's invasion of ukraine, calling it a cruel and unprovoked war, and a blatant violation of the charter of the united nations. he walled on u.n. members not to accept, condone or normalize such aggression. and this was all before putin's nuclear comments. they share an 800 mile border with russia, and the war in ukraine triggered the finns to apply for nato membership in may alongside sweden. i want to become to the program the president of finland. thank you for joining us. >> thank you very much, sir. >> tell us what you think putin is going to do now. you have met him so many times. he does appear to be cornered in some ways.
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he does appear to be -- becoming more reckless with these nuclear threats. tell us what your analysis of his state of mind is. >> i see he is actually in poker terms, he has put all in, and he is a fighter. so it is very difficult to see him accepting any kind of defeat. that surely makes the situation very crucial. >> you said -- i remember in early february, before the russian invasion, that something you sensed had changed about putin, that he used to be very careful, incremental, calculating, but that he was -- he was behaving in a much more aggressive fashion. just in your conversations, what do you think happened? everyone is perplexed by this.
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everyone thought putin was -- yes, he may be a nasty guy, but it was a pattern of carefulness. and he seems to have become very reckless. what do you think has happened? >> if we go years back, we see -- or at least i have seen some kind of development in his thinking. he's frustrated, because of the situation in ukraine after 2014. and then progressively, i have felt that his frustration is growing. very obviously, he just decided to get this thing somehow, or at least try to solve it. >> do you think that there is a possibility that he will expand his war aims?
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people talk about moldova, obviously, you must be -- you have to be careful watching. you have a long board we are russia. >> we haven't seen any sign in finland. actually, it's more calm than for years. so i think that he has enough now headache in ukraine and it doesn't seem very obvious that he could make any maneuvers elsewhere. not now, and not in the nearby future. >> do you think that some of putin's change may have come about because of the isolation of covid, that he was only listening to a small group of advisers? because you saw him many times before that. do you sense that period of two years of total isolation has played a part here? >> yeah. i met him last time approximately a year ago, last
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october. and yes, it seems that he's quite alone. so he has been careful with covid and maybe that's why the people surrounding him are not that many any more. and i actually don't know who are nearby. >> stay with us. when we come back, i'm going to ask the president this question -- winter is coming. can europe stay united against russia's aggression when the lack of russian gas may make it a very cold winter? pain hits fast. so get relief fast.
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and we are back here on "gps" with the president of finland. mr. president, everybody is wondering about this question. it's going to get very cold, gas is already very expensive. by some measures, it is ten times as expensive now as it was before the invasion. will europeans be able to maintain the pressure, or will they start to be cracks in the european coalition against russia? >> yes. gas, the price of energy, food, even interest rates are rising. so that means tough times for households. it's often thought that europeans are used to let's s
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say -- first, that we are very weak to face difficulties. but i would say that ukrainians gave an excellent example that there is stamina amongst people when difficulties come. and difficulties which we are facing are minor if compared to those ukrainians are meeting. so i believe that we european people can take it. >> specifically, one of the big issues that people worry about is italy. italian elections, assuming madame maloney comes to power. two of the parties have been
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openly pro-russian. is that likely to change the dynamic if the italians go into the european council and say, you know, we don't want our -- as some of the parties have been saying -- we don't want to have to pay for this. we don't want italian households to bear the brunt of this war with russia. >> no, i actually don't believe that would be a problem. the other issue is that italy and the economy is not in very good shape at the moment. that might raise questions and discussions on some part of solidarity, financial solidarity in europe. i guess that might be even bigger or real problem. >> are you saying that the italians will need money from
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the european union so they are unlikely to try to break ranks? >> i wouldn't say that so directly, but nevertheless, their finances are not in very good shape. we have to keep that in mind, too. >> let me finally ask you sort of where we began, which is where do we go from here? there are people who think you just need to show as much military force, push the russians back, and then there is another school that says you need to start searching for some diplomatic solution. the ukrainians, as you know, have variables to that right now. what would your advice be to the west? >> i am a man of peace, and i think that every possible deed for this is important. that's why i strongly support
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president macron and olaf schotz, keeping the idea open to discuss the kremlin. also, i have to admit that at the moment, i don't see so very much possibilities to reach the peace. >> given your long relationship with vladamir putin, would you be willing to reach out and meet with him and try to see if there is a deal to be had? >> mmm, well, i haven't talked to him, but if the situation would be such that we find the possibility of getting something positive done, i would. surely after discussing with president zelenskyy also. but i don't see at the moment
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any possibilities to have anything positive done. >> mr. president, pleasure to have you on. thank you. >> thank you very much. thank you. next on "gps," another world leader in another dangerous neighborhood. i talk to the president of south korea about china, taiwan, north korea, when we come back. you sell high commission investment products, right? (fisher investments) nope. fisher avoidids them. (other money manager) well, you must earn commissions onon trades. (fisher investments) never at fisher investments. (other money manager) ok, then you probably sneak in some hidden and layered fees. (fisher investments) no. we structure our fees so we do better when clients do better. that might be why most of our clients come from other money managers. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.
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and rejected any negotiations on denuclearization. the new law alongs pyongyang to make a preemptive nuclear strike in the event of a threat. i had the opportunity to talk to the man who leads the nation on the other side of the dmz, the demilitarized zone, president yoon suk-yeol. he's new to being a politician, but he had some very interesting things to say. president yoon, pleasure to have you on the program. >> it is my pleasure as well, fareed. >> mr. president, there are so many crises around the world. ukraine, the issues surrounding taiwan, for example. it seems that we may have forgotten about the issue of north korea. so i want to ask you to tell us from your perspective, what is -- what is happening in north korea right now? is the threat or the danger from
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north korea increasing today? >> translator: i am aware that more attention is being put on ukraine because a real act of aggression is taking place, a real war is taking place in ukraine. so i understand that more attention is going there. and with respect to taiwan, china is increasing its tensions. for example, sending aircraft above the territory of the taiwan strait. however, at least for south korea, the most imminent threat is north korea's nuclear missile threat. and i don't want to be hypothetical about the practical situation. however, as the head of state of my country, as well as the korean military, i would like to note that our alliance with the
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united states is expanding its horizons to economic fields, as well as cutting edge technologies. therefore, we will work together in order to contribute to global peace and stability, as well as expanding freedom to the world's citizens. >> when nancy pelosi came to the region, after visiting taiwan, she she visited south korea and you did not meet with her personally. you said you were on vacation. this is south korea's closest ally, its only military ally. it seemed to many people that this was an odd or unusual decision for you to make, and that it was really not about a vacation, it was that you were trying to be nice to china.
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how do you respond to that? >> translator: with respect to her visit during my vacation, it was upon invitation of the speaker of the korean national assembly, and on this occasion, there might be some different opinions about whether the president should meet her, even though she's on vacation. i decided to have a pleasant and fruitful phone call, not only with speaker pelosi, but six other members of the house of representatives. and we had a really productive and friendly conversation. and speaker pelosi also understood my situation, that i was vacation, and she respected it, as well. and with respect to my position, on the issue of the taiwan
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strait, i have always been clear on my position. and whenever and wherever i'm asked about this issue, i will always provide a consistent answer. >> so just to be clear, your position on this issue, if china were to attack taiwan, do you support the united states coming to taiwan's military defense? >> translator: in the case of military conflict around taiwan, there would be increased possibility of north korean provocation. therefore, in that case, the top priority for korea and the u.s./korean alliance would be based on a robust defense posture. we must deal with the north korean threat first. >> when you say we must deal
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with it first, are you saying that you would ask the united states to first fulfill its obligations toward south korea before getting involved in taiwan? >> translator: it wouldn't be appropriate to reply about a u.s. priority. because both the korean peninsula and taiwan are very important to the u.s. and are to be defended by the u.s. with allies and partners. so both issues have significant importance. >> president yoon, you have come to politics in an unusual way in south korea. you are not a politician. in fact, i think you announced that you were going to run for president eight months before you became president. you entered politics eight months before you became president. is this part of this wave of people who are outside of the establishment, outside of politics, around the world, who are finding their way into
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politics because people have lost faith in political institutions around the world? what do you think explains your success? >> translator: before getting to the point, let me tell you about my story. and why i placed so much importance on our alliance with the united states. whenever i ask a scientist, they say we must cooperate with america because they have the most technological prowess in the world. and if i ask a soldier, they say the united states has overwhelming capability in terms of their military power. we have much to learn from the united states system to further
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advance our society and economy. as well as our politics. as a lawyer, why did i decide to enter the world of politics? because it is to reestablish these values of the rule of law, freedom, the market economy, and democracy. because many people lost faith in these universal values. >> mr. president, thank you so much for joining us. next on "gps," after a young woman died in police custody in iran, angry protests are popping up across the nation. where will the protests lead this time? i'll be back in a moment.
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in dozens of cities across iran, protestors, led by women, are agely rising up against the government. at least 1200 people have been arrested, and dozens reportedly killed in the clashes so far. the igniting incident was the death of a woman after she was taken to a re-education center by the morality police because she allegedly was not wearing her hijab correctly. the regime response to the protest has been ever more oppression, arrests, deaths and internet blackouts. so can the government weather this unrest as it did in 2009 and 2019? joining me now is our friend, kareem, senior fellow at the carnegie endowment for international peace. so explain at one level for most people, why are they still
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arresting thousands of women for the hijab? clearly, alienating women. what is the rational? >> fareed, we're now in the 43rd year of the iranian regime after the 1979 revolution. i think this is a reminder that islamic republic of iran is incapable of reforming and incapable of changing its ideology. there's three idealogical pillars left of this revolution, death to america, death to israel, and a mandatory hijab for women compulsory. and the hijab is real -- the flag of the islamic republic, and it's really the weakest of these three pillars. not even iran's anti-imperial allies are going to support the idea that women should be beaten for showing too much hair. >> you tweeted about this. what the regime has become and
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maybe in its origin always was, there was a sort of men against women. it is also turned into a regime of old people against young people, right? >> absolutely. you look at the institutions ruling iran, and they're all old men. the supreme leader is 83 years old. if you look at the institutions that he's empowered and in turn empower him, they're all led by geriatrics men. one is 95 years old, head of two powerful institutions in iran. this someone of the tragedies. when you look at the images of the protestors who died, young, modern women with their lives ahead of them. and you look at the photos of regime officials, they have one foot in the grave. >> so the crucial question becomes, the regime is cracking down hard.
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so far in the past, these crackdowns have worked, sad to say, even the green revolution. will the crackdown work this time? >> i think what we have to watch are the internal fissures within the regime. i believe there is appetite for fundamental change within society. but for popular uprisings to succeed, you need not only pressure below but divisions at the top. so will we start to see fissures within the security forces and revolutionary guard? so far we haven't seen that. there's an interesting caveat, which is the uncertain health of the 83-year-old ayatollah. and what the revolutionary guards are thinking about that. >> if he dies, there has to be a kind of election among an elite group of moolahs. do we know who is likely -- people think that the current president could be elevated to
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that position, and he's another super hardliner. >> yes. i think when he dies, what is likely to happen is a raul castro type situation. a weak leader who replaces a powerful leader. my hope is that iran evolves into denmark, but i've learned not to conflate hope and analysis. what can happen after that is an iranian putin type figure, someone from the security or military establishment, who throws out shiite nationalism and replaces it with iranian nationalism. i hope i'm wrong about that. >> one of the reasons that's likely is the thing that one has to realize is, and there's no good answer here, but american sanctions and super sanctions have massively empowered the security services, the revol revolutionary guard, everything comes in through them. so given this dilemma, which is dealing with the terrible
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regime, on the other hand the sanctions do empower, castro used to say if the americans were to relax the sanctions, i would do something to force them to reimpose them, because that's what keeps me going. what should the u.s. do? >> the challenge of u.s. pollty towards iran is on one hand you're trying to prevent the regime from becoming like north korea and trying to help the society become like south korea. to counter their nuclear and regional ambitions, you have to use pressure. if you don't want to use military pressure, that requires economic sanctions and isolation. but in a way that does empower these isolationists within the regime. so we have to figure out, how do we counter the regional and nuclear ambitions. but at the same time have a strategy which is trying to champion the cause of change in iran. >> then we would try to open up contacts with society, we thought that in a sense capitalism and commerce were the
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assets that would break these dictators. possible? >> i think we at least have to think intelligently about it within the u.s. government. until now, the biden's administration sole strategy has been to revive the nuclear deal donald trump exited. i'm confident with the u.s. government and people like elon musk and our great minds in silicon valley, we can think about constructive, creative ways about championing the cause of change in a country, which the vast majority of the people do want change. >> kareem, it's always so insightful. you're just terrific. >> thank you for having me, fareed. next on "gps," prepare to be inspired by three people who want to change the world. ♪ hey, sorry i missed your game. it's okay. you see that? that's when i realized it's time to finanally do the thing we've been talking about for years.
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idea. actually three of them. it was a long, hot summer in chicago this year. more than 1,200 people were shot, almost 200 of them fatally. it's a problem that plagues the city in an intense way. laurene powell jobs, the widow of steve jobs, runs the amazon collective, an organization dedicated to fixing such vexing issues. i had the pleasure of talking to jobs on the clinton global initiative this week. you'll also hear from chef jose andreas, as well as the prime minister of barbados, whose speech on climate change last year at the u.n. went viral. they all had big ideas that would make a big difference. >> so in the case of chicago,
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arne duncan, after he came out of the obama administration, returned to chicago and wanted to work in deep community, in south and west side of chicago. when he was the head of chicago public schools, he witnessed firsthand what it was like to have the devastating effects of gun violence and communities. so we started working block by block with individuals who were most at risk of gun violence, either as the perpetrator or the victim. we have an 18-month program where we hire individuals. we started with men, we now work with men and women, and we have a full, wholistic program that includes high school diploma, includes social and emotional support, includes group support, includes coaching and mentoring, and job skills and training.
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this is actually the first chance that they have accessed this kind of opportunity. first chance that anyone outside of the gangs was hiring. the first chance that anyone actually cared enough to see individuals and support each other. the results are indisputable. so both the city and the state have now matched our philanthropic funding and are taking it to scale. which is a great -- [ applause ] >> jose, let me ask you about the biggest food crisis in the world right now, which stems from the russian invasion of ukraine. what can be done about that, and what is being done about it? do you think it's enough? >> no, i don't think we're doing enough. but i want to make sure i'm very clear, ukraine has plenty of food to feed ukraine. people are going to be asking
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me why are you cooking and feeding ukraine? it's not a problem of lack of food. it's a problem of a country that is at war, and a problem of logistics. what we did was organize the logistics to make sure nobody would be left without food. last week, we reached 160 million meals, produced by 550 restaurants. almost between 1.5 million to 2 million meals delivered a day. around 7,500 places. i want to take this moment to say we got two cooks that were sleeping in a town and a missile hit the community center. many people died and two of our volunteer cooks died in that missile.
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when i saw what i saw bucha, when you see what i saw in irpin, everybody -- if you're not speaking loud because you have social media, that this war, and no war makes any sense, and that president putin of russia right now, they can have been killing for the last 200 days, children and women and elderly. it could be you or i. this war must end yesterday, and we all need to stay louder about it. [ applause ] >> prime minister, i wanted you to close for us by reminding us in a sense why bill and hillary clinton restarted cgi, because of the urgency of the -- of the
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threats and the -- sometimes lack of progress. you know, when the u.n. set up its millennial grows, poverty was cut enormously. and then we faced a series of challenges. and now we're in a very different place where there's a lot of work to do. i know you talked to the u.n. general assembly this morning about this. tell us about that. >> the bottom line is that the world looks too much like it did 100 years ago. but we should know better, because tef the experience of 100 years ago. we have educated people and we have a united nations that is supposed to make a difference. regrettably, there are few questions for whom political -- from whom political action is needed. we need it to reform the international financial architecture. we need it to reform the u.n. we saw the worst aspect of it when russia cheered the u.n. the month it went into ukraine. you have a united nations that
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still looks like an imperial order. until we recognize that when that body was formed, there were only 50 nation states in the world. today, there are over 193. and we need to ensure that there is greater equity. how do you have a g20 that leaves out the african union with 1.4 billion people. [ applause ] we have to level out the playing field and give people an opportunity to make a difference. >> i want to thank the prime minister, and our host, the clinton global initiative for that discussion. and thank you to our viewers for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. ost? ♪ does it get better than not parallel parking yourself? ♪ alexa ask smartfeed to feed the dog. does it get better than fefeeding your dog from 50 miles away?? yes... it does. at buick we see a future that's even better.
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happening now in the newsroom, all eyes on tropical storm ian as it intensifies and targets florida. plus, russians fleeing russia to avoid the draft, as ukraine's zelenskyy offers sanctuary to any russian soldiers willing to lay down arms. and -- >> i'm going to make sure donald trump -- i'm going to do everything i can that he's not the nominee. if he is the nominee, i won't be a republican. >> congresswoman liz cheney taking a stand, saying she will do whatever it takes to keep tr
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