have been doing amazing stuff so hopefully, their careers will continue to blossom. there is so much more of our conversation with jurdd apatow and our sitdowns with jose andres and alex rodriguez. you can catch the full interview on hbo max. thank you for watching and join us every sunday night to find out "who's talking" next. >> announcer: the follows is a cnn special report. ♪ ♪ may 2nd of this year, a spring morning no hint of what is to come that night. the nine justices of the supreme court attend a memorial service

for one of their own, the late john paul stevens. the end of the court's term is just weeks away. >> the whole host of consequential decisions to ter comes to an end. >> is this the end of roe v. wade. >> of law and life. >> at the services the judges call themself as happy family. beneath the surface, there is much more to the story. >> they're not only not getting along with each other. they don't like each other. >> it is a court at war with itself. and in the center stands chief justice john roberts. >> john roberts is someone who is used to winning. >> he's very much a just dicial conservative. >> not a fan of roe v. wade. >> but the set is keenly aware abolishing roe could tear

america apart. >> cared more about preserving the legitimacy of the supreme court. >> which meant saving roe. >> he wasn't going to let go. >> months earlier. >> abortion justice. >> oral arguments in the case of dobbs versus jackson women's health center. at issue, a mississippi law that would limit but not eliminate the right to an abortion but five justices want to abolish it all together. >> the conservatives to his right wanted to go all out against roe v. wade. >> the fetus has an interest in having a life. >> i thought it was stunning. >> to save roe, roberts must change one vote. >> there was really only one desperate hope but all came down to kavanaugh. >> justice brett kavanaugh. >> brett kavanaugh has at times

gone with the chief. >> prior to his confor mirmatio hearings, he was thought of someone that liked to be in the middle. >> that was prior to the hearings. >> i hope the american people can see through the sham. >> the fight over kavanaugh's nomination was ugly. >> a nomination in turmoil. >> this is destroying my family. >> physical and sexual assault. >> i've never sexual assaulted anyone. >> it was just a train wreck. >> so help me god. >> some even thought that damaging hearings might affect kavanaugh's vote on roe. >> he would have enraged conservatives by not overturning roe v. wade right now those are his only friends. >> yet, as the spring wore on, there appeared to be a chance kavanaugh might flip. >> a lot of chattering conservative circles he might be about to go along with chief justice roberts. >> then the stakes rose higher and late april, the "wall street journal" fired a warning shot

straight at roberts and kavanaugh. >> the "wall street journal" editorial page was very wired into the consecutive side of this court. >> it called the roberts effort to save roe a ferrous lobbying campaign. >> don't be bullied or persuaded by john roberts. >> by may 2nd, there was a chance of turning the vote around. >> i thought there might be some ambivalence there. >> roberts bent over backwards. >> the chief's desperate mission would not last the night. the roberts' effort ended at 8:32 p.m. in one dramatic moment with a key stroke "politico" published samuel alito's draft opinion abolishing roe v. wade. >> stunning news. >> unprecedented leak of this

major draft opinion. >> it was like a bomb went off. >> it was such a breach of their secrecy. >> first time in history. >> there has never been a leak like this. >> john roberts had lost his fight. >> my body, my choice! we will abolish abortion! >> june 24th, the final decision, a shock but not a surprise. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >> the supreme court has overturned roe v. wade. >> ended the constitutional right to an abortion. >> there was unbridled joy. >> this is a historic day. >> on the other side of the great american divide, the deepest despair. >> i am absolutely terrified. i'm so beyond livid. >> my body, my choice!

>> everything is on the table now. everything is on the table. good evening. i'm fareed zakaria. the republic endures and this is the symbol of its faith. that description of the supreme court came from chief justice charles evans hues in 1932. his words eloquent and precisely right. this country has long seen the highest court as the pen innaclf democracy. judges that stood apart from politics trusted to make big decisions based solely on the law. now, that foundational idea, that faith may be just one more casualty of america's deep political divide. with the court beginning its new term tomorrow, consider this troubling poll.

75% of americans, three quarters tell gallop they do not have full confidence in the supreme court. it is the lowest number ever recorded. why? what happened? this is the story of how we got here. ♪ ♪ >> the current supreme court committed an act of institutional suicide. >> burn it down! >> by overturning roe v. wade. >> after the most dramatic supreme court ruling in decades, there was rage. even violence. americans had a message for their highest court. >> we won't go back! >> across the country, tens of thousands took to the streets. >> you ain't seen nothing yet. >> the constitutional scholar

noah feldman says america now sees a court poisoned by politics. >> the current court is taking all of it weight and putting it behind popular concern serve t -- conservative positions and the reason that's so scary from the standpoint of the united states, we don't have another institution whose job it is to protect the most vulnerable, to protect the rule of law. >> feldman is a liberal. >> so help you god. >> who testified in favor of did the e-- donald trump's impeachment. >> donald trump committed high crimes misdemeanors. >> he supported the nomination of amy conan barrett. >> she's a first class lawyer. we need the smartest and best people. the right way to think about the supreme court is not to ask is it liberal? is it conservative? it's to ask what is the role that it fund mentally plays in conserving constitutional

government? >> many americans question that ro role. >> these are live images, folks, at the doors of the supreme court. >> this crowd was trying to force its way inside the court to stop the swearing in of justice brett kavanaugh. >> there's an add what the supreme court has. it doesn't have the power of the purse or sword, what it has is public respect. >> as a reporter, joan has seen radical changes over her 30 years of watching the court. >> people believe that the dobbs ruling was politically motivated and why would they not? former president donald trump ran on a platform that included appointing on justices who would reverse roe v. wade. >> trump was open about it.

he wanted justices with a bias. >> i will appoint judges that will be pro-life, yes. >> highly, highly respected judges. >> republicans were nervous that trump would not appoint true conservatives. >> he will not invest the capital to confirm a conservative. >> to nullify the right, he released a list of right wing judges. >> what we did and i just have it, we just took a list of judges -- >> can he deliver the kinds of candidates who we want for the supreme court? when he releases that, it gives him credibility among establishment republicans. >> but donald trump had nothing to do with choosing the names on his list. >> that list was of course generated primarily by the federal society. >> the faed real federalist soc most powerful group in the country. every one of the conservative

justices has strong ties to it. >> it was stunning. the presidential candidate would take a list of judges from the federal society and use those judges as part of a campaign. >> we'll see the president and the supreme court justice. >> the president who chose three supreme court justices. >> congratulations. >> who transformed the court for a generation outsourced crucial decisions to this man. >> he had an idea. what do you think of having me put out a list of people who i would pick from for the u.s. supreme court? i said to suggest to him names of people who would be appropriate. >> leonard leo has long been the power behind the federalist society. amassing hundreds of millions of dollars to nuture a network of judges. >> $1.6 billion from one donor. >> leo hit the jackpot with

record-breaking donation for another conservative group he controls. >> the largest single donor contribution that's ever been reported. >> leo told "the washington post" he doesn't like to talk about money. >> i don't engage in that conversation because one, i'm not particularly knowledgeable about a lot of it but secondly, because it's just not what i o. >> all of this is important because leonard leo, a man elected by no one and a man few americans have even heard of played a powerful role in choosing the most conservative court in a century. >> here they come. >> one example of leo's clout, justice neil gorsuch. >> was this the choice you advised president trump to make? >> well, my job was just to give him a list of great people and tell him everything i could of each of them. i was ultimately his decision. >> was he on the list? >> neil gorsuch? >> yeah, absolutely. >> the ability of trump to have that outstanding list of

nominees to choose from has everything to do with the success of the federalist society in creating a movement. >> kerry works with leonard leo. >> he's someone i absolutely work with very closely. >> she has led the public relations fight to push through conservative nominees. >> never a whisper of misconduct. it doesn't add up. confirm kavanaugh. >> what we're really seeing is the left losing that strangle hold on the court and being very frustrated there are republican nominees who aren't as easily swayed to the middle as they were before. >> the federalist society began back in 1982 with a few chapters on law school campuses. >> the federalist society was born out of a perception by conservatives and that liberal constitutional ideas had become the main stream within american legal thinking. >> which was true, so

conservatives embraced the society. >> very moneyed interest are pouring funds into the federalist society. >> then in 1987 a seismic event turned the federalist society into a conservative juggernaut. ronald reagan nominated a founding member to the supreme court, judge robert boric. >> the boric battle was such a big defining moment in america. >> starting with justice linguist. >> back then they were brief and tame affairs. >> you were a competent judge capable of being a functioning justice, you would get confirmed. >> the boric confirmation changed that. >> john bork should be immediately confirmed. >> the right thought bork would be a shoe in. he was a scholar and appeals court judge. >> so well respected and thought of in the legal academy, there would be no problem getting him confirmed.

>> the left saw him as a far right extremist. >> liberals were appropriately worried about what robert bork would do if he got on the supreme court. >> among his views, he was against the 1964 civil rights act. >> blacks would sit at segregated lunch counters. >> ted kennedy led the charge against bork. >> robert bork's america would have women forced into back ally abortions. >> the women's groups afraid of you. >> one example of why, bork had upheld a mandatory sterilization order for women who wanted to work at a chemical plant. >> i suppose the five women who chose to stay on the job on that job with higher pay and chose sterilization, i suppose that they were glad to have the choice. >> those in favor of the bork nomination will vote i. those opposed will vote no.

>> a then young joe biden called for a vote. >> mr. bird? >> no. >> no. >> the nos won. republicans were furious. >> let this trashing go on and let this good man be characterized as some sort of frankenstein's monster without raising a voice against it. all of us are accomplices. >> those hearings became sort of the battle cry of the republican party after that. >> nina has been a supreme court reporter for 50 years. >> republicans definitely believe that democrats started this and now that they did this. >> to robert bork, you fought the good fight. you happen to be the one who set the new senate standard that will be applied in my judgment by majority of the senate

prospectively. unfortunately, it got set over your dead body so to speak. >> he essentially said you will rule the day. >> and he was right. >> this is a circus. this is a national disgrace. it is a high lynching for uppity blacks. >> the circus hearing has become a repeated ritual. >> that is a farce. >> it would be the greatest travesty i've ever seen in the nomination process. >> the more corrosive the hearings grew, the more america's trust in the court coll collapsed. how did we get here to understand the roots of it, we need to go further back to what may just be the most k consequential moment in supreme court history. the early 1950s, the post war boom but for many, the american dream was only available if you were white.

segregation had an iron grip on the south. >> we had an absolutely no intention of integrating in the south. >> for the brown family of topeka kansas, separate but equal meant their daughter could not attend her they bneighborho school. the supreme court heard the case of brown versus the board of education. like america itself, the board was bitter ly divided. >> inherently unequal. >> a new chief justice was determined to change that. warren knew a ruling in favor of brown would not be enforceable was unanimous. >> warren was a great master of trying to bring the court together. >> he argued for months. finally he got every judge to agree. the court ruled for brown 9-0.

>> it's may 17th, 1954, america has never been quite the same. >> it was a magna carta, it was the second emancipation. >> it was the beginning of the warren court. a revolutionary judicial era to change the fabric of american life. >> the court under earl warren just opened up america in so many different ways. >> it was in a sense today's court in reverse. >> conservatives used to cast them. >> it was enraging conservators. >> history-making decisions. >> some enhanced the rights of criminal defendants. >> the miranda decision, you have a right to a lawyer and a

right to a lawyer when you are questioned. >> the privacy all of it met to a collective shout from conservatives. impeach. when earl warren finally retired in 1969, conservatives believed they might finally get their chance to change the court. but it would be another 40 years, a long, political battle, for power and money, before the right would get the court it dreamed of. to make it outta sig♪ ♪one, two, get loose now! it takes two to make a-♪ get double rewards points this fall. book now at bestwestern.com. hmmm. -morning, jen. no sleep again? i don't think coffee is your answer today. you think? my data shows you're not off to a good start. what?

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(vo) get the new iphone 14 pro on us. right now t-mobile is including apple business essentials so you can easily manage your team's devices. on the network with more 5g coverage. only from t-mobile for business. a bombshell decision. >> the court could target other precedent. >> the supreme court's most life changing ruling in decades. >> 2022 has been a year of high drama at the supreme court.

>> made possible by a conservative supermajority. >> reverses nearly 50 years of interpreting the constitution. >> but america has been here before. >> we wanted a supreme court. >> the epic knockdown constitutional brawl. >> a political bombshell that divides the nation. >> of the 1930s. hard-right supreme court justices. challenged the overwhelming majority of americans. >> rallies around the country. >> killing popular, bipartisan laws, like no court before. laws meant to save a nation from collapse. >> millions of able and willing americans, bewildered.

>> $30 billion in stock value vanished. >> the conservative justices were known as the four horseman of the apocalypse. ♪ ♪ >> and their story carries warnings for today. >> if we would make democracy succeed, we must act now! >> it was the beginning of the worst calamity the united states economy had ever known. >> it was the height of the great depression. >> banks closed, millions put out of work. >> the stock market had plummeted 890%. >> despair, a sense of hopelessness. >> a quarter of the country was unemployed.

threatening democracy. >> taking advantage of the depression, general unemployment. >> this whole country was in danger of going under. >> this is a call to arms. >> his campaign promise, a new deal. >> a nation that needed saving. >> the inauguration of franklin d dellaroosevelt. >> erlected roosevelt in a landslide. >> the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. >> in his first 100 days, he

delivered. >> bill after bill, 15 bills with far-reaching significance. >> with the most ambitious legislative agenda in history, the new deal. >> we can put people back to work. >> creating vast federal programs to get americans back on their feet. >> you people must have faith. together, we cannot fail. >> they were going to try almost everything, and anything. to try to get this country stood up again and working. and they did. >> but the president had a big problem. the supreme court was killing his laws at a record pace. ten times more often than previous courts. >> new deal legislation are unconstitutional. >> the supreme court of the united states was controlled by a conservative and indeed

libertarian property protecting majority. >> the court had killed almost any law that tried to regulate the economy. like minimum wage laws. >> 500,000 are working as day laborrers. >> even child labor laws. in 1935 -- >> in quick succession, the supreme court invalidated law after law. >> the court dealt three huge blows to the new deal in one day. >> major pieces of legislation passed by an overwhelming majority of congress, as the solution to the depression. >> americans were livid with the court. hanging justices in effigy. one justice referred to the great depression as a temporary inconvenience. >> this is a conservative majority that really didn't care about the little guy. >> it's roosevelt again.

>> roosevelt takes every state in the union. >> in 1936, the nation responded. >> i will faithfully execute -- >> re-elected fdr with more than 60% of the vote. >> they can now march forward together. >> but the new deal still appeared to be doomed. >> we must take action to save the constitution from the court. >> so roosevelt declared war on the court. >> he tried to get justices of his own choosing. >> shocking congress with a bombshell bill. >> opponents denounce it as court backing. >> that would ad six new justices. >> he proposed for every justice over age 70, he would be able to appoint a new justice. >> i am opposed to packing the court. >> the seizure of unchecked power.

>> there was bipartisan outrage over the bill. >> this is the road to autocracy. >> even accusations of fascism. >> he horrified a lot of people, some calling him a dictator. >> but the plan was perfectly constitutional. >> the constitution never says that there has to be nine justices. >> the number of justices have changed many times. starting at six in 1789. then five, eaching ten at one point, before settling on nine. the court was very weak in the early days of the republic. some of its rulings were openly defied. >> president andrew jackson, after an opinion he didn't like, is reputed to have said, chief justice marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it. and then jackson just ignored the supreme court.

>> but over the years, the court had gained enormous power. and now it was using that power to block progress of fdr. >> we've only just begun to fight. >> the president and congress, despite their overwhelming election victories -- >> the stock market crashed. >> -- could do virtually nothing to fight the depression. >> 61% of the american public came a definite answer. >> the clash over court backing riveted the nation. >> it is the duty of every citizen to concern himself with this question. >> by all means let us make this change. >> it was the greatest political drama of the era. >> the supreme court. >> thousands of letters and telegrams came in. >> it was one of the great legislative battles of all time. the majority leader had a heart

attack and died in the middle of it. >> i believe the people are tired of this and should have new judges now. >> fdr's plan seemed almost certain to pass congress. and the court would soon number 15 justices. and then suddenly, the supreme court blinked. >> the supreme court upholds the wagner act. >> it completely changed its view in three seismic cases. upholding the minimum wage law. an important labor law. and the social security act. >> holding the balance of power. >> the court's swing vote, justin owen roberts, who had sided with the conservatives, swung over to the liberals. with the new deal laws upheld, court packing seemed unnecessary.

>> the president of the united states was given his worst political defeat. >> it was a switch by one justice that saved the court from being packed. observers call that the switch in time that saved nine. >> is there a justice on today's court that could have a similar change of heart? and move the court closer to the views of most americans? possibly court insiders say, but don't count on it. >> in their view, the last 50 years of law handed down from the supreme court has been magnificently wrong, and they want to make it magnificently right. it only takes a few seconds and it won't affect your credit score. finally, a totally different way to finance your ride only from carvana.

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the supreme court j overturning roe v. wade and restricting the state's ability to legislate guns. >> for those shocked by the supreme court's last term, court watchers have a piece of advice -- strap yourself in. >> it's going to be a very bumpy ride. >> fundamental rights are back on the table. >> more bombshells could be coming. and more rights could disappear. in his concurring opinion overturning roe v. wade, justice clarence thomas signaled his

desire to keep going. >> clarence thomas wrote so many other things should be up for grabs. >> he called on the court to reconsider the right to contraception, gay marriage, even same-sex intimacy. liberals may not like it, but there is a certain logic to the thomas argument. like roe, those rights were all based on what previous courts saw as a constitutional right to privacy. strike down that foundation, and the other rights fall with it. in a separate concurrence, justice kavanaugh said the court was not opening the door to eliminating other rights. >> he bent over backwards to say this is only about abortion. >> he was trying to reassure the american people, but thomas' logic is clear, and we know that this court does not mind overturning long-established laws and supreme court residence.

>> a good example would be the new york state gun law more than 100 years old. >> it doesn't end there. america's long standing system of governance is under fire. for nearly 100 years, congress has passed sweeping laws empowering federal agencies, like the epa, the fda, and others, to create rules that keep americans safe. >> agencies have expertise. it's up to the agency to interpret ambiguous statutes in the light of the agency's expert knowledge. >> but last term, the supreme court said, not so fast. the court struck down a rule from the environmental protection agency aimed at reducing carbon emissions from power plants. the rule could have helped blunt the ravages of global warming. >> the united states, ravaged by wildfires. >> the worst drought in centuries. >> flooding of biblical

proportions. >> if the court keeps ruling in this direction, it could strike down thousands of others regulations, created by federal agencies under broad congressional statute. basic rules that protect consumers, patients, workers, could all be up-ended. congress would have to pass hundreds of new laws to address every possible application of its intentions. that will never happen, of course, which hands even more power to the justices. >> the court effectively said to the rest of the political system, we are the last word, we are in charge. >> and then there's the biggest case you have never heard of. >> legal theory headed to the supreme court. >> that worries scholars from across the political spectrum. >> it could literally up end democracy. >> this term, the supreme court

will rule on the so-called independent state legislature theory. partisan state legislatures may soon have complete control over federal elections. >> that's dictatorship that's madness. >> the theory isn't new. it dates back more than 20 years. to another monumental case. >> nine justices, as divided as this nation. >> bush versus gore saw five conservative justices essentially hand the presidency over to george w. bush. >> please raise your right hand. >> most of the justices seemed unconvinced by the court's own decision. they suggested the opinion was limited just to this one unusual case. even after voting with the majority, justice scalia called the opinion a "piece of shit."

>> the opinion itself was only cited one time by a supreme court justice. >> that is, until 2020. >> we're going to defeat sleepy joe biden. >> as donald trump faced off against biden, republicans began dusting off an obscure argument from the once pariah case bush v. gore. the independent state legislature theory. chief justice rehnquist claimed the constitution gave state legislatures complete control over presidential elections. today, some republicans want that unchecked power over all federal elections. to put it simply, state legislatures can do whatever they want, and even the state supreme court has no authority to say what you're doing violates the state constitution. >> and what makes this so poignant is right now in america, most of the state

legislatures are controlled by republicans. >> six of rehnquist's fellow justices rejected the theory. but this court has seen four conservatives already voice some you support. if the theory stands, election experts predict chaos in any close contest, with legislatures questioning the results and even selecting their own electors. >> imagine it's 2024. the presidential election is so close it all comes down to one state, let's say pennsylvania. >> pennsylvania's voters choose the democrat. but the republican dominated legislature claims fraud and awards the state to their candidate. >> so now the president of the united states is going to be the republican candidate. >> even though they actually lost the election. democrats appeal to the highest court in the land. >> the supreme court of the united states, using independent state legislature theory, says we don't care that the pennsylvania legislature has

violated its own law and constitution, because it's up to the legislature to say how the president is going to be selected. >> the republican enters the white house. the loser becomes the winner. >> that would be a constitutional travesty. >> not everyone agrees that it can lead to a stolen election. >> federal law prohibits state legislatures from overturning the results of elections. >> the federal government would rein in a runaway state legislature, but who can predict what this supreme court would decide? with a supermajority anchored by three of the youngest and most idealogical members, this court does have the chance to rewrite life in america. >> these people will affect our lives, our children's lives, probably our grandchildren's lives. >> as with the abortion decision, the future may rest in the hands of one justice in particular.

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and now for my final thoughts. the power of the first branch of american government, congress, coming from its ability to tax and spend. a formidable strength. the power of the president, the second branch, crucially includes his or her role as commander in chief of the armed forces. the power of the third branch, by contrast, is simply its symbolic authority. the supreme court cannot enforce any of its own rulings. it relies on the other branches and the public to accept them. that is why the legitimacy of the court is so important. and that is why actions that make the court seem more partisan, more radical, more out of tune with the country are so dangerous. the court's approval rating, one rough measure of legitimacy, has been declining for decades. but it went down sharply after bush v. gore. that was a nakedly partisan ruling which conservatives, who

had for long championed states rights, suddenly discovered that the federal government had a crucial role in the 2000 election. but it was just a highly visible example. the court has been becoming more ideal logically in recent years. judges appointed by republicans now almost always rule in ways that republicans want them to. and ditto for judges appointed by democrats. it's all part of the hyper polarization of american life. but it's also partly because of the strange way that america's highest court is structured. it might surprise you to know that no other major democracy gives members of its highest court life tenure. most western countries have mandatory retirement ages. 68 in germany. 75 in britain. 75 in canada. germ any gives its constitutionl

court judges a 12-year term. the american system of selection is also extraordinarily political. in many european countries there are panels of experts that play a large role of sending forward nominees or vetting them. the competition is designed to be bipartisan and involving legal experts. france's high council of the judiciary is mostly made up of elected judges, with a few appointed by other bodies. britain has a somewhat similar selection process. and it's rare to reject the advice of these bodies. some european supreme courts are required to rule by consensus rather than majority vote. and they often take pains not to air their political divisions. do not public dissent to maintain the court's image of

impartiality. the most egregious aspect of the american judicial system is one that's close to unique, life tenure. it raises the stakes sky high. judges with field their power longer than most dictators. some stay on the court for decades. clarence thomas has been on the supreme court for almost 31 years. and he's still just 74 years old. the prize is to find young judges tojudge s to perpetuate their for as long as they can. and a middle aged, middle of the road extremely distinguished moderate judge, in other words, a judge with perfect judicial temperament, doesn't stand a chance. and then there is the question

of mental deterioration, which is something worth maengsing when judges could be ruling in their 80s. the supreme court of the united states has moved in a direction that has weakened its own legitimacy. it might be an occasion to begin a conversation on what reforms could be put in place to make it less partisan, less divisive, and more trusted by the majority of citizens. after all, that is the only way the rulings would be truly accepted, in a diverse democracy of 330 million people. i'm fareed zakaria. thank you for watching, and good night.

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