a new episode of my podcast "all there is" is out. i heard today the podcast had been downloaded some 2 million times which is really extraordinary, and i'm very thankful because especially given what it deals with, which is a podcast dealing with grief and loss. that's something not often talked about. this week's episode is about anticipatory grief and in it i tell a very personal story about my experience watching one of the most important people in my life struggle with dementia for

ten years before she died. i haven't talked about her publicly much before, but she raised me and was like a mom to me. again, you can point your cellphone at the qr code on your screen right now for a link to it or find it wherever you listen to podcasts. the news continues. "cnn tonight" with jake tapper starts now. welcome to "cnn tonight." i'm jake tapper. on stage tonight, what might be the most important debate of this entire midterm election cycle, democratic senator raphael warnock versus republican candidate herschel walker in savannah, georgia. a race that could very well decide which party will control the u.s. senate for the next two years. so, yes, the stakes would already be insanely high even if the republican candidate wasn't facing a major scandal about whether or not he paid for an ex-girlfriend's abortion despite

running on an anti-abortion platform. here's how herschel walker addressed his ex-girlfriend's accusation just a few minutes ago. >> that's a lie. and on abortion, you know, i'm a christian. i believe in life. i tell people this. georgia is a state that respects life. and i'll be a senator that protects life. i say that was a lie, and i'm not backing down. >> we'll get back to that scandal in georgia in just a moment. but to understand exactly what's happening there, regarding scandals requires a little context because the term scandal took on a whole new meaning with teflon don starting with his ride down that golden escalator in the summer of 2015, which led to bragging about committing sexual assault, demonizing entire religions and ethnic groups, paying hush money to a porn actress for a sexcapade while his wife was home with their new baby, two impeachments, an insurrection, so many calamities.

i don't have time to go into them all this hour. before that, we were in a very different place. historically, the word scandal has been thrown around pretty loosely here in the nation's capitol. back in the 1992, then-vice president dan quayle hosted a spelling bee at a new jersey elementary school and told this poor kid he needed to add an e to the end of the word potato. a spelling scandal. how quaint. quail was working from an inaccurate flashcard prepared by the teacher. that in and of itself might be indicative of a bigger, more important problem. but the press thought quail was a dunce, so they had at it. some of these scandals have been way overblown and unfair. oh how i long for those days when a republican candidate would be savaged in the press for pursuing gender equity. >> we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds to become qualified to become member of our cabinet. i went to a number of womens

groups and said can you help us find folks, and they brought us whole binders full of women. >> binders full of women. believe it or not, the press savaged him for that. i mean, the horror. can you imagine? mitt romney wanted to make an effort to hire women. what a jerk! right wing media got their idiotic licks in too, of course, jumping on president obama for, well, for just about everything. when president obama saluted a marine while holding a coffee cup, or when he made a comment about buying arugula at whole foods. and lest we forget this moment between the few you are president and future first lady, which on that other channel became this -- >> a fist bump, a pound, a terrorist fist jab? >> a terrorist fist jab? good lord. so, those scandals, they weren't real. they were stupid. a real scandal is when a politician does something actually corrupt, such as steal money from taxpayers or take bribes. not campaign contributions.

those are generally legal bribery. i mean, more like the keating five. do you remember the keating five? senators from both parties accused of intervening in a regulatory investigation of this rich dude by the federal home loan bank board? there was -- okay. i get it. you're dozing off. that's okay. because the keating five story is complicated. and the more complicated a scandal gets, the more likely voters are inclined to forgive or forget or not even inclined to care. but there is one topic that voters do decidedly understand. ♪ let's talk about sex baby ♪ ♪ let's talk about you and me ♪ >> salt and peppa knew what they were talking about, which brings us to this. >> i did not have sexual relations with that woman, miss lewinsky. >> of course he did. and he set a standard for

scandal survival. follow today lying and denying, demonizing his critics, and keeping on keeping on. and despite getting impeached clinton's political career survived. they even named an airport after him. this was nothing. have you ever tried to tell the story of senator ted kennedy in chappaquiddick to a young person? i mean they truly cannot fathom it. when kennedy was the sitting senator in massachusetts, the bereaved brother of the recently assassinated rfk and before that jfk, did something that is almost unimaginable. >> on chappaquiddick island, a attended on friday evening, july 18th, a cookout. i had encouraged and helped sponsor for a voted group of kennedy campaign secretaries. when i left the party around 11:15 p.m., i was accompanied by

one of these girls, ms. mary joe. >> that woman, mary joe, was killed that night in 1969, after senator kennedy drove his car off a bridge. kennedy did not report the accident until the next day. the next day. and if that blows your mind, consider this. not only did kennedy survive politically with the help of his powerful, wealthy brood, and perhaps some misplaced voter empathy. within a decade, senator kennedy was running for president. i guess he didn't think pleading guilty to leaving the scene of an accident would matter that much to voters. and maybe he was right. after all, he did manage to get re-elected to the senate seven more times. of course plenty of other politicians were drummed out of office for much and arguably lesser sins, ones with no corpses in their wake, such as the tragically named congressman anthony weiner who initially lied about accidentally tweeting

photos of his name sake -- which ended up revealing that weiner had been sending similar messages -- some of them pretty gross -- to plenty of women, not his wife. wiener eventually confessed and resigned from congress in 2011. >> to be clear the picture was of me and i sent it because i was ashamed of what i had done and didn't want to get caught. >> four years before that, republican senator larry craig, trying to solicit sex in an airport bathroom. craig claimed it was all just a misunderstanding. he was not toe tapping for an anonymous rendezvous with the dude in the next stall. he just had a wide stance, he said. the charge against him had more sting, since craig had been a vocal opponent of gay and lesbian rights in the senate. which brings me back to herschel walker because it's not the sex that voters really object to here. it's the hypocrisy not just about abortion but about family.

here's herschel walker's own son, christian. >> my father, herschel walker, had all these random kids across the country, none of whom he raised. family values, people, four kids, four different women, wasn't in the house raising one of them. he was out having sex with other women. >> as conservative columnist peggy knewman put it in the "wall street journal," quote, it is about children being born and the father says to the mother, you can raise it yourself or you can abort it, but i won't help you raise it and act as a father, unquote. even before this latest up roar, republicans who want to win the senate were privately grousing that the former football star did not seem like a great catch. this attack ad from republicans featured one of herschel walker's ex-wives describing his violent threats to her. >> first time he held the gun to my head, he held the gun to my temple and said he was going to blow my brains out.

>> herschel walker claims he does not remember the threats because he suffered from dissociative identity disorder, formerly known as multiple personalities. as we head into the midterm elections, candidates are counting on you to ignore evidence of their many failings in this post-scandal world in which we find ourselves. the argument essentially being that, for conservatives, hey, donald trump gave us the u.s. supreme court. who cares how many women have accused him of sexual assault? it's tribalism above all else, including the importance of character. in other words, this. >> i am concerned about one thing and one thing only at this point. so, i don't care if herschel walker paid to abort endangered baby eagles, i want control of the senate. >> it's an argument to which conservative writer john dailey responds, quote, if there are no

standards that candidates must meet in order to get your vote, we're telling such candidates that we will hold them to no standards, nor expectations once they're in office, unquote. and is that not the point here, in this post-scandal world. we're all flawed. we all have the capacity to grow and change or not. but if a candidate is proudly, nakedly, hideously amoral or immoral before taking office, what makes you think that getting control to the levers of power is going to bring out anything other than more of the same if not worse? what makes you think they're going to do anything for the united states or the least among us? for you? i mean, you cannot shame the shameless. so, who does a politician call when steeped in scandal? well, if they're smart, they'll call the chief media adviser to five successful presidential primary and general election campaigns. let's do that. paging the spin doctor. mark mckinnon. mark's going to join us live from the walker-warnock debate site in savannah, georgia. that's next.

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welcome back. a fiery night on the debate stage in savannah, georgia. herschel walker, the republican, digging in, insisting the allegations that he asked a former girlfriend to get an abortion are, quote, all lies, the controversy that dominated headlines in that race for more than a week was only brought up once during the 60-minute

debate. raphael warnock, the democrat, chose to not engage in the issue. he opted instead to question walker's relationship with the truth. >> we will see time and time again tonight, as we've already seen, that my opponent has a problem with the truth. and just because he says something doesn't mean it's true. >> joining us now to discuss is the former political adviser to president george w. bush, among many others, and creator and cohost of showtime's "the circus," mark mckinnon. he was at the debate in georgia tonight. and mark, i just realized i've known you for 23 years. how do you think tonight went for walker and warnock? >> well, jake, unlike forensic debates scored on who makes the most cogent argument, who presents the most facts, political debates are 100% about

expectations. herschel walker couldn't have had lower expectations. warnock had very high expectations. >> and, listen, this is not just me talking. i've talked to lots of friends, republicans and democrats across the board think that herschel walker exceeded expectations and that war not did not meet expectations. he reminded me of al gore in the george w. bush debates. it didn't seem like he wanted to be there. you made a great point about abortion. it's the number one issue in this race in terms of the crisis walker is facing. it's the number one issue for a lot of voters in america, and it literally got 30 seconds of attention tonight. and why warnock has chosen not to engage on that issue is unclear to me. and i wish there would have been more follow-up from the journalists as well. herschel walker may deny it, but it fact is this woman has shown receipts. she's shown a get-well card and a $700 receipt that walker allegedly sent to her which has not been disproven.

it seems to me that issue specifically but more broadly post the hobbs decision was likely to get a lot more attention tonight and just didn't. >> it's really shocking. obviously you think it's a mistake that senator warnock has not addressed this issue more forcefully or even at all. how would you advise that he do it. obviously he's worried about the sensitivities here. >> well, i think you just have to take it heads up. and, you know, as many people have observed, there's the issue of the abortion itself, which to your point is all about hypocrisy. this is a guy who says that at one point in the campaign he supported no exceptions. he's waffling about on that too. but to hold that position and then contrary personal conduct on it says a lot about character. and the fact is that you have to confront it in a way to say that this is -- but also to christian walker's point, it's much more than just about abortion. it's about personal responsibility and family. and walker makes a big point of being a family man. well, there's nobody in his

family that says he's been a good family man. i would have pointed that out if i were warnock. >> at times it seems it was a bit chaotic on the debate stage. at one point, senator warnock did bring up the false insinuation he had been in law enforcement, had trained with the fbi. let's take a listen. >> one thing i have not done, i've never pretended to be a police officer, and i've never -- i've never threatened a shootout with the police. and, you know what's so funny? i am -- have worked with many police officers and at the same time -- >> mr. walker, mr. walker -- >> no, no, no, he has a problem with the street. >> out of respect, i need to let you know mr. walker, you are very well aware of the rules tonight, and you have a prop. that is not allowed. i ask you to put that prop away. >> this is not a prop. this is real. >> it is considered a prop,

mr. walker. excuse me, sir. >> yes. >> you're very well aware of the rules. aren't you? >> well, he -- he brought up the truth. let's talk about the truth. >> so, it's an odd thing. he's not a member of law enforcement. i don't know where that honorary badge came from. it almost doesn't matter. how did that play at the debate? >> pretty contentious. i think there's two issues there. there's one which to what extent has walker represented that he is somehow officially or unofficially part of law enforcement, which apparently he has done before. and then of course the fact that he violated the rules by pulling out the badge, i think that that issue will get litigated. i think that's kind of the one vulnerability i point out for walker tonight. and i think there'll be follow-up and cleanup on aisle three for cleanup on that. the cleanup for warnock is going to be the issue of ebenezer baptist church and the evictions. very unclear what the truth is there. he didn't knock that down

entirely. he used martin luther king as a shield, said you can't attack the church of martin luther king. but it's still unclear what the story is on those evictions. >> you were talking earlier about low expectations. no offense to sarah palin, but back in the debate you were prepping her for her debate with then vice president joe biden. there were low expectations for her. let's watch this moment from "the circus" that's going to air this sunday. >> then we go in later to do the debate prep, and ten minutes into it, two or three questions in, and she locks up completely. and it's a pretty basic question. and it was like, what would our basic foreign policy be towards nato. and she's like, what's nato. and then everything, like, stops. we all walk outside. mark wallace is like, what do you think? i was like, oh, god, we are [ bleep ]. >> so, how does one manage the art of low expectations? it sounds like herschel walker

and his team did a pretty good job of that. >> they did a great job, jake. and, you know, i mean, it was walker that came out a week or so ago and said, listen, i'll just be honest with you. i'm not that good an orator. you know, i'm just a poor old country boy that played football, and i'm going to be up against this really articulate pastor who's been doing this for a living. he's been in washington dealing with politicians, and he's a slick talker. and i'm not. but i just tell it like it is. so, that was a very, very kind of standard lowering the bar. hey, you know, i'm just a dumb country boy. and then all he's got to do when he walks on stage is complete a couple sentences and he's beating expectations. but he did a lot more than that tonight, jake. you know, he -- he was clearly prepped. i think newt gingrich and lindsey graham had a hand in that. but they know what they're doing.

and walker clearly followed instructions tonight. >> we only have less than a minute left. you were in ohio this week. tell me about some of the general trends you're seeing out there in the closing weeks. >> well, you know, this election is really seen three waves. there was the wave in the spring where it looked like republicans were just going crush democrats, huge blue wave. biden really having trouble. biden had a good summer, passed a lot of legislation, had things for democrats to talk about, then you had the hobbs decision. things shifted back democrats' way. now you have the bad inflation report. there's a sense republicans are getting momentum because the economy and inflation are kicking in. this is really a race that's really clearly divided between democrats who care about protecting democracy and abortion rights and republicans who are talking about crime and immigration and the economy. it depends on what voters care about. we don't have a precedent for this type of election, so we only have the past to judge. and this is clearly a new ball game. so, stand by. >> all right. mark mckinnon. so good to see you. thank you so much. >> take care, jake. you know this republican

broken record? >> our greatest concerns right now is the economy of america. >> soaring prices are crushing, crushing, the american people. >> reckless government spending has sent our economy into a downward spiral. >> it does seem to be the last thing the democrats want to talk about. but vermont independent senator bernie sanders says ignoring the economy, not talking about the economy, on the campaign trail is political malpractice. and he's here with a warning to the democrats. that's next. so we're hard at work, helping them achieve financial freedom. we're investing for our clients in the projects that power our economy. from the plains to the coasts, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive. expedia members can save up to 30%

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talk to anyone in san francisco and they'll tell you now is not the time to make our city even more expensive by raising taxes. san francisco has one of the largest city budgets in america. yet when it comes to homelessness and public safety, we're not getting results. what we really need are better policies, more accountability, and safer neighborhoods. vote no on propositions m and o. the last thing we need are higher taxes, especially right now. now is not the time to raise taxes in san francisco. vote no on m and o.

many democratic candidates, if not most, are embracing a focus on one particular potent issue in their closing messages to voters ahead of the midterm elections. >> life. >> the only candidate fighting for abortion rights. >> i'll never stop fighting for your right to choose. >> politico reports democratic candidates, campaigns, and supportive superpacs have spent nearly $18 million to air more than 100 abortion rights centered tv ads in some four dozen battleground states. but senator bernie sanders says that exclusive focus is a huge mistake. senator sanders is with us. thanks so much for joining us.

tell us why you think that's a mistake. >> first of all, i happen to believe that the supreme court decision overturning roe versus wade is an absolute outrage. i think democrats have got to fight to make sure it is women who control their own bodies, not the government. so, i think this is a very important issue. but i don't believe it can be the only issue. at a time when we have an economy in which the wealthiest people, the billionaire class, are getting much, much richer, while working people are struggling to put food on the table, it goes without saying that we have got to focus on the economy and demand that we have a government that works for all of us and not just wealthy campaign connecticut transcribe not one of them is going to vote for legislation that makes it easier for workers to join unions. not one of them is going to vote

to guarantee health care for all people, nor will they vote to raise taxes on billionaires at a time when the richest people in this country in some cases pay nothing in federal income taxes. so, i happen to think the republican line is phony and democrats have got to respond. >> so, might the concern be among democratic strategists that, hey, democrats are the party in power, underlying the economic problems you just underlined might be underlying the failure of the democratic party, which controls the house, the senate, and the white house, to deliver. >> well, that's just not accurate. the truth is that inflation, which is a very serious problem in our country, is a global problem. in the uk and in europe in many cases, it is worse than it is here in the united states. so, to blame joe biden for it just doesn't make any sense at all. what the inflation crisis is about is broken supply chains. it's the war in ukraine.

and i'll tell you, jake, what else it's about. it's about the incredible level of corporate greed that we are now seeing. people go to the gas pumps. prices are very high, lower than they were a while ago, but too high. understand that the oil companies, the big oil companies, exxonmobil and the others, are making record breaking profits. you can't afford prescription drugs? well understand the pharmaceutical industry is making huge profits, food industry, huge profits. so, in my view, what's been going on is a lot of these large corporations are taking advantage of the terrible war in the ukraine, taking advantage of the breaks in supply chain, and just raising prices to an outrageous level. and i think we've got to go after them on that. >> what do you make of the argument from democratic former treasury secretary larry summers, who last year was sounding the alarm about inflation, saying that the government had been pumping too much money into the economy,

both during the early days of the covid, starting with trump, and throughout the first year of the biden administration. he was warning that inflation was going to be really bad. and now he's saying essentially, i told you so. >> well, i guess he told the government of the uk that and he told governments all over the world. inflation is a global problem. in many countries, it is worse than it is in the united states. now, larry summers, i know larry, does a good job representing his wall street interests. but i think it is time we had a government that stood up for working families. and the questions that we should be asking ourselves is, why do we pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs when the pharmaceutical industry makes huge profits? why are we the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care to all

people? why do you have half of the elderly people in this country earning less than $25,000 a year and you've got republicans out there who want to cut social security, they want to cut medicare, they want to cut medicaid, so they can give more tax breaks to their billionaire friends. those are the kinds of the issues that we need to be discussing in my view. >> right, but that's my point. i mean, the issues that you feel passionately about, paid family and medical leave, college affordability, home health care, housing child care assistance, you tried to get all those things done. they got cut from the democratic proposal. i mean, there are democrats out there, progressives, who are big bernie sanders supporters who are saying, why should we vote for democrats. bernie, you've been fighting the good fight, but all that stuff got stripped from the legislation that passed the house and senate -- >> okay. good question. >> go ahead.

>> all right. jake, that is an excellent question. and let me give you the simple answer. the simple answer is, with president biden's strong support, we presented a piece of legislation called build back better which, in many ways, would have done more for the working class and the middle class of this country than any legislation passed in the last 50 or 60 years. it was transformative. we had zero republican support. not one republican who believed that we should deal with child care, that we should deal with health care, that we should deal with education. not one republican supporting it. unfortunately, in a senate that is 50/50, 50 republicans, 50 people in democratic caucus, there were two corporate democrats who chose not to support what the president and i and the vast majority of the caucus wanted. that's the reality. we have 48 votes. we couldn't get 50. my hope is that we will elect two more democrats so we'll have 52 in the senate so that we can begin to address the long-neglected needs of working families.

it is just not acceptable that we have more income in wealth and equality today than we've ever had in this country. it's not acceptable that you've got half a million people who are homeless in the america. rents are soaring. and we're not building the kind of low and moderate income housing that we need. we need an agenda that speaks to the needs of working families and not wealthy campaign contributors. >> senator bernie sanders, always good to hear your views. please come back. we love having you on. thank you so much. >> thank you very much, jake. the crackdown against antigovernment protesters in iran is frankly brutal to watch. but the protests are also bringing hope to young women fighting against decades of repression, segregation, and misogyny. one of the voices in this country is actress and activist who today took her fight to

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that's the chant that has dominated mass protests across iran over the past month, coupled with scenes of women cutting their hair and burning their head scarves in defiance against the islamic republic forcing women to wear hijabs. but what began as unrest over the death, perhaps murder of 22-year-old massa amini, who showed her hair in public and died in the cost of iran's so-called morality police, has become so much more, especially as more women, including two 16-year-old girls, have become new faces of the movement. both of them killed while joining in protests, their bodies later returned to their families bruised and disfigured. they are among at least 144 people killed by iran security forces since protests began. cnn cannot independently verify the death toll. precise figures impossible for anyone outside the iranian government to confirm. what we do know for certain is that iranian authorities are intensifying their violent

crackdown on these women and children, firing metal pellets and live ammunition into crowds, beating people with batons. more than 1,000 people have been arrested across the country, some students being taken to psychiatric institutions. the situation so dire that secretary of state tony blinken and vice president kamala harris met today with iranian activists including one whom you may recognize. nazanin boniadi. she'sologist in the new amazon series "lord of the rings, the rings of power," the season finale which dropped today. and i will ask you about that, i promise. but i know more important than that is what's going on in iran. i want to know what you asked during the meeting with secretary of state blinken and vice president harris. did you come away with any assurances the u.s. will do more? >> thanks for having me, jake. i walked away hopeful. i'm very grateful to the administration for making the

time for us today. and, you know, the message was that the people of iran are looking to every democratic leader in the world to stand by them unequivocally, just as we did with the anti-apartheid movement in south africa, just as we did for the people of ukraine. they deserve and are demanding that we stand by them in the same way. and i was assured by the administration they will do everything they can to ensure accountability of the crimes committed by the islamic republic against its own people. as you know, we've had a 43-year case study now on the islamic republic. and we've come to the conclusion based on everything that we've seen that reform -- the reform movement is dead. nobody's calling for reform. everybody on the ground in iran want it is theocracy gone. and that message -- our policy with iran needs to reflect what's happening on the ground over there. >> you dedicated your performance in the rings of

power to the women of iran. so, that was even before these protests. what does it mean for you personally to see women and girls at the forefront of this fight? >> i mean the bitter irony of two months before mahsa amini's murder, i was at this comic-con, and this role that i'm playing in "lord of the rings: rings of power," there's so much resilience and tenacity. and i drew such inspiration from my 14 years of advocating for these brave women who are at the forefront of the fight for freedom and democracy. little did i know in that moment that just two months later i would be outside the federal building in los angeles giving a speech to 20,000 protesters who are standing in solidarity with the iranian people. and this global galvanization uprising in support of this movement is a watershed moment that we need to pay attention to. because there's nothing more important than freedom. we have to stand by our principles and ensure that the people of iran feel that the

democrats in iran who are fighting for their freedom feel supported. >> small d democrats supporting democracy democrats. you understand the fear that comes with iran's morality police. you had a run-in with them when you were just 12 years old. tell us about that. >> i was born in iran. 20 days after the revolution my parents had to escape. they were political refugees, opposed the islamic republic. i grew up in london. when i was 12, my mother took me to iran to visit family. i was walking down the street with my mother walking two or three steps behind myself and my uncle, walking side by side. and a plain clothed militia or morality policeman walked up to us and asked us -- demanded that we present papers, marriage papers or certificates. and i was forced to wear a hijab at the age of 12, which is in and of itself not accustomed to, having that freedom taken away from me. but that was such a harrowing experience that i would be questioned about me just walking

with my uncle. i remember thinking how important it is that the girls in iran are supported against the injustices they face. so, to be here and to be able to talk to the administration today as i witness these brave girls in iran who are taking off their head scarves and defiantly standing up against this oppressive regime fearlessly, despite the fact they know it could end up with them being beaten. today there was a report that in northwest iran, a girls' school, high school, was raided by the security forces and ten girls were beaten to the point of serious injury. and one has reportedly died today. >> it's just amazing how much zealous religions are fundamentally about oppressing women and girls. >> yes. >> it's not just islam but religions across the board. what do you want the biden administration to do?

and what do people watching outside, what can they do? >> i would like everyone to -- there's an amnesty international petition to call for an accountability mechanism, an international accountability mechanism. what we're not doing is we're not gathering enough documentation to be able to somehow hold the iranian authorities to account. that is very important. otherwise, these uprisings happen, they get cracked down, and they repeat themselves. so, we need an international mechanism to stop this from happening. so, these petitions are very important. the hashtags, even though people don't think they matter, over 200 million hashtags of mahsa amini's name have created ground swell. and they allow for people in iran to have hope. and that's not for nothing. but more importantly, i think what i'm looking for is female leaders, please stand unequivocally with the women of iran. i beg you. we are looking to female leaders.

vice president harris today was very inspiring in what she said. and if you look at the rhetoric that came out of joe biden, then senator joe biden in 1986 addressed the senate and unequivocally stood with the people of south africa, majority black south africans and said our loyalty is to the people and not to regime, the apartheid regime of south africa. >> all right, stick with us. we have more questions for you. we're going to take a trip to middle earth because the character you're playing in "lord of the rings," an orc slaying bad -- so we're going to ask what inspired you to play. that's coming up.

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this tower will no longer be a symbol of frailty but a symbol of our strength. who will stand with me? who among you will stand and fight? >> that's an arousing speech from the character and rallies for people to battle from "the rings of power." the story is a prequel from before "the hobbit." she is back with me. so what's unique about your character is that she breaks the rules for a lead character in this fantasy genre, single mom, teenage son, no powers caught in this forbidden love with an elf. i've been there. just kidding.

what do you like about playing this character. i can see why you've dedicated this role, your performance to the women of iran. i can see that. >> that's interesting. that scene that you just showed was one of my audition scenes and i remember doing the scene and thinking, the inspiration is clearly this woman is sort of talking to the iranian people of like, you know, we can do this and let's overcome tyranny and darkness and the shackles of our past and everything she says and that just resonated with me and i just think anyone who champions anyone else or is trying to sort of give voice to somebody else or motivate people or inspire people to take action, i think this role resonates with them so i think, you know, essentially she's a unassuming or -- she's a leader but she didn't choose to be a leader. and i love that about her, hugely multifaceted. i think her inspiration is love. she's driven by love for her

son, love for this elf and the love for her people and i always say in my advocacy work, jake, there is two routes you can take. one is your hatred of oppressors. you can be driven by that in your advocacy, or your love for the disenfranchised. and if you choose your love for the disenfranchised, "a," you can get a lot more done. and "b," there is less burnout because you're not constantly consumed with the hatred. in that sense there is a lot of relation with this character. >> the show is doing well. picked up for a second season. when it debuted, there is criticism from purests because the show had women and people of color. what did you make of that? >> well, yeah, has a lot of strong female characters, which i absolutely love and it's not

unprecedented for talking. the lead of the show is a strong female character and very much a talking character. i think that criticism doesn't make much sense. as far as the race diversity issue goes, we've tuned that out because essentially you're watching a fantasy show of various creeds and cultures, elves and dwarves and humans coming together and uniting to overcome evil. >> right. >> my response when we were talking about it in the office is they're elfs, they're hobbits. what are we talking about here? she's a mermaid. let it go. so great to see you again. thank you so much. we met at a counsel on foreign relations event a decade ago. she's been doing this stuff for a long time. thank you so much.

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