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laura, what happens when a country's leader makes a bad, unpopular decision? apparently, that depends on the country. because, british minister resigning today after only six

weeks in office. her economic plan plunged britain into turmoil, and her own conservative party, turned against her. >> you know, in this country, the voters decide, but the candidates are nominated by the two major parties as you all know, which limits the leadership choices. tonight, dueling panels are back. allison taking on this very topic of how do you solve a problem like unpopular leaders? >> we have to set the clock. 4:00, we will see which panel can come up with the spicier answers about this. >> this is not going to be like that show where there's a horrible ending at the end? there's no death coming? >> there's a huge bucket of slime that will fall on one of our heads if we don't deliver on the panel. >> that is true. >> which person do you think would be more upset if her hair gets messed up? all right, here in washington, d.c., will join that was a former official in the white

house, and miles taylor was chief of staff, former homeland security chris daniels in. the idea here is that we have unpopular leaders is foreign to us out of the gate, right? we don't have that problem, here, right? everyone loves our leadership, your eyes are popping out of your head, what is your side? >> i worked for the most ocular president in the united states, honestly, the most popular that has ever been. yeah, we know about this. yes, we know that unpopular leaders. we know it all too well, but, why is this the case? why do we have unpopular leaders winning? i will go straight in, it is because of how hyperpolarized our electorate has gotten. both parties have tried to lock in their gangs. gerrymandered the hell out of the map and it's harder for moderates to win election. the pittsburgh fringes in making decisions, the 10% is making decisions for the 90%,

the reasonable center has been left out and our democracy is becoming increasingly uncompetitive. >> is england a blueprint? the idea of getting rid of our leaders in that fashion? we tried impeachment, that doesn't work. >> you know, if it was our system, we might have more leaders than great britain has had and they certainly have been cycling through them pretty rapidly. the problem is, in all these countries, they are cycling right back to the same old unpopular leaders but they could end up with boris johnson all over again. in israel, they could end up with benjamin on yahoo all over again. we could end up with donald trump all over again. what is amazing is that, they are unpopular, but that somehow does not knock them out of politics, whether it is in our system, or in a parliamentary system. >> the popularity is subjective, right? because donald trump for example had millions of votes. he's not universally unpopular. >> but he was very unpopular. >> he was the most unpopular

president in the history of gallup polling. he is the only president of the united states who was never supported by a majority of this country for a single day. when he was in office. >> i think there is this popularity, it is like a painful popularity i would say. if you think of where it comes from across all these leaders, particularly -- i would say, i don't think it is an equivalent left to right, i will just say that, but on the far right in particular, you have people who are peddling fear and division, appealing to this populist moment of wealth inequality, of people suffering, of changing economies, of factory jobs leaving, and i think that, unfortunately, is a part of this mix. i think that if you had less inequality, you would have less extreme painful leaders. >> you called it the pitchfork fringes. in jolly old england, they are

more fluid with other parties, they tend to abandon parties more frequency than we do here in the united states, a bit more policy and position oriented. is that the future? do we have a lot of red, blue, purple states popping up, is that the real way to approach this? >> i think that right now, and i am a very biased in this regard, i think right now is probably the most viable moment for third parties in american history. that's why andrew yang and i went and found the forward party because we see right now, in the electorate, a seachange. 50% of americans, for the first time in u.s. history, since we have had polling on this say they are not political independence but they are not democrats or republicans for 25% are democrats, 25% say they are republicans and even if those democrats and republicans, two thirds say if there was a party they would vote for it. >> susan? >> i would like to say that it is all driven by policy, but i feel like the last few years of american politics have reinforced that it is actually

a team sport. and, that it is much less about policy than we like to think. policy is not the reason that donald trump became the leader of the republican party. >> fascinating. look at the timing. allison, back to you to try to top that. there is the ding. >> we are buried here, because we feel like the trump impression might have given you guys the advantage, okay? so, we will see if anyone here has an impression that they will bust out. like miles did, okay? set the clock, please, for four minutes. okay. dow decided. don't set it. my panel is john miller, chief won first analyst and jim walden is a former prosecutor and mara is here as well. i am running out of time. all right. we have residents who make bad and unpopular decisions, like every ousted them? >> i do a very good british and present but could counter what we have just heard but i believe that out. >> liz hell, i like this. -- was truss. i like that. >> not necessarily apples to apples but there is a lot that we can compare and take from

what we have seen here. i think the big thing is, and we have heard this mentioned, this extreme entrenched polarization. unit, liz truss lost the support of her party but what we have seen here in this country is that the polarization is so entrenched, you take something like january 6th, where even those who are eyewitnesses to what took place did not demand accountability and tell the truth about what happened because the consequence is would be severe as we saw with liz cheney, you can see the same thing with voters. the polarization is so deep, remember donald trump saying he could shoot someone on fifth avenue and not lose support, his support never went below 35%, truss was at 10% last week. >> that is one of the mind blowing things. her own party decided that they did not like the decision they have made. can you imagine that happening here? >> i cannot imagine it. if you think about everyone talking about the polarization, why are we there? we are there for two reasons and two reasons only, because the supreme court allowed too much money in politics and because it is not a crime to use this information to win an election. if you have lied or give

misleading information, and lots of contexts, we call that fraud, but you can do it in an election and it is masked as first amendment speech. added that to social media, and the incredible amounts of money in politics, that is why there is tribal is asian. you want an idea? let's solve those problems. >> i like that. you know how we have been problem solving problems, john? if someone makes a decision we don't like, we have an insurrection. recently that is what we have decided as americans, that is how we will fix the political system. >> the one thing that we, and the rest of the world looking towards us, thought could never happen here, at least since the original. so, i think if you look at the politics of it, we have seen in our generation, and every president is an answer to the last beginner, if bush was an answer to clinton and obama was an answer to bush, and trump

was an overreaction to obama, and biden just had somebody, seeing that as jim pointed out, in the background, we have two factors, that is really skewing our ability to get leaders, which is one, years of gerrymandering, of congressional districts, and elections, where you might have literally taken a country that is divided, and sorted those divisions out, so that they are very start, and the social media factor. which mara pointed out, which is, truth is not a requirement, constant 24/7, and the conversation has become very damaged and skewed. and if i could just say, to build on john's point. when we talk about it gerrymandering, it is really election rigging. that is all it is. and it is not one party. the democrats did it in new

york and there were two court cases to overturn the maps, it is happening all over the country. we are turning into an country of election sheets. >> also, we do have an impeachment process but we never remove anyone afterwards. we have exhausting impeachments but no one gets removed. >> lickety-split. >> is much different, we have seen that happen twice in the last two or three years? >> that's it. the bell signals we are done. laura? thoughts? >> for whom the bell tolls. i will say that right now. you guys were good. i was intrigued the entire time. i will say, mara, i do want to see the impersonation. i got to tell you. >> can you just -- hold on. >> because i won a contest when i was 13 years old it was a british accent contest. i'm sitting the bar very high. i would like a spot of tea, please. >> well done.

>> summercamp. >> there is no higher accolade. that is very well done. thank you. >> summercamp to cnn. up next, my question, allison, our american men in crisis? more and more men and boys are struggling in school and work and life, so, is there a solution that does not come at the expense of women? we will find one. next. i choose airborne. unlike some others, airborne gives you vitamin c and so much more. it's an 8 in 1 immune support formula. airborne. do more.

americans have plenty of issues to worry about, we talk a lot about issues facing americans of all demographics. but, our next guest says don't forget about the boys and the men. more and more, men and boys are struggling at school and work and in life. men are dropping out of the labor force in

historic numbers, friendly, and they are less likely to graduate from high school and college. they are much more likely to have fewer strong friendships today, then even 30 years ago. and, men account for two thirds of so-called depths of despair, dying of suicide and drug overdoses. we are back now, and joining us to help figure all this out, richard reeves, senior fellow at the brookings institution, and author of the new book, of boys and men. why the modern male is struggling when it matters, and what to do about it. i'm glad you are here. i want to get one thing straight, before you came on, we had a british impersonation, we apologize for that. >> yeah, i think the apology will be accepted in due course, a century or two. this is my impersonation of a british person, i would rank the previous guest may be a seven out of 10. >> i am here for it. i welcome you here, and i also welcome this book. i am a mother of a boy and i

often think about, some will say things like, mommy, because he is only nine years old, why so much girl power? what is that about? and i think to myself, wow. in the interest of trying to really empower and embolden our young girls, which i really want to do, i often wonder, as a mom, is there something leaving him behind, in his young mind, not understanding the wise? >> we have this really powerful new script for girls and women now which is very different to the one we had even a generation ago, which is about empowerment, education, economic independence. we have handed this new, very empowering steps to girls and women like you, i am all for that but what is the new script for men? we have torn up the old script for men, which was about traditional breadwinning. that is gone but we have not replaced it with a new script. that creates a dangerous vacuum in our culture. we have to create space, i think, to take seriously the real problem of boys and men which you alluded to, and continue to put focus on the remaining problems of girls and women.

we can think to thought at once and we can worry about two groups at the same time. and i am very troubled right now that our main street discourse is not taking some of these problems of men and seriously enough. >> what are some of those problems? i know the idea of holding two thoughts at the same time, we are in washington, d.c. and that might be antithetical to us at times. but there are many who look at this and say, really? we had centuries of being able to be dominant by design, so, why should people care, and what are those issues? >> well, first of all, this happened so quickly, we have seen the economic rise of women, which we have obviously said is a great thing, but what that does is, it means it is very hard for us to catch up with what is happening on the ground. so, if we look at college graduation rates, for example, there is a bigger gender gap in the percentage of both women getting college degrees compared to men than there was in 1972, when title ix was passed, the other way around. 50 years ago, men with 13 percentage points, more likely to get a college degree, i

think honestly it is quite hard for all of us to catch up with that. as you have mentioned, the men who are in the labor market, many working-class men men have been hit hard by many economic trends. most american men today earn less than most american did in 1979. that is an important economic fact that we need to take seriously as we think about what is happening in our culture which leads to all kinds of other problems in health, as he referred to, three times higher suicide rates. men and not being able to be in touch with their children, social and political consensus if we fail to take these problems seriously. >> i think, in your book, will, about seven fathers, is the book, you are thinking about how you view this, and the notion of boys and men being left behind in the pursuit of equality, it sounds like. >> yeah. it is really unfortunate confirmation. i worked in the obama white house on my brother's keeper.

at the time there was a big debate of, should we even be having a program focused on black men and boys, i think this data bears out that absolutely we should. this does not mean it needs to be to the exclusion of anyone else but if you dig into the data in the biological science of brand of element, for example, boys and girls have different levels at times of brand of element. boys being a little slower as far as certain parts of the decision-making cortex and all those things, and so, our strategies should respond to that. but, to the point, and it is a great point, this change has happened so quickly, and it has been a good response to toxic masculinity, but what does it mean? in my seven black fathers, i talk about the expansion of the definition of fathers, these men who were not my biological fathers that stepped in and help keep me on track. we have to figure out better solutions, mentoring programs, different supports that address the unique needs of different men across graphics. we still address girls and

women. >> susan, can this happen without coming at the expense of gains for women? >> i think that is the great fear is that we have tended to see these things in zero-sum terms. at this moment of incredible dysfunction, right? you have a long history, going back decades, really, to the idea of hitting those seeking better equity in our society against each other, rather than understanding where they are both affected by common crises and where they are not. i think that is something -- like you, i am a mother to a son, this is something we have to get invested in. i think that part of the problem is that to your point, we have this toxic politics. to be honest, we have been just coming through, you know, a number of years in our society where we have had acting out of the most toxic form, a caricature of masculinity in our national politics.

what kind of message does that send to boys? we used to talk about old- fashioned values, right? that was one party that used to say it was in favor of that, well, when did we teach our sons to be sore losers? i mean, come on. >> what has happened, absent a better conversation about this, and polarization, there has been almost a celebration of an adolescent form of masculinity, acting out, his middle finger kind of masculinity. >> by the way, my son went to an all boys school and i spoke with the head of school about this and he said, you would not imagine what it was like to be the head of an all boys school during the trump presidency. it was a disaster for boys >> i can imagine. the book is of boys and men, fascinating. allison, you are on the panel as well. it is a fascinating position given this dynamic at play in politics, and our sociological world as well. what are you thinking? >> i think it is an important conversation and it is really troubling. we have jim walden and catherine phyllis joining us. john, this is heartbreaking.

it is heartbreaking to hear the ways men and boys are struggling in terms of school and the workforce and their earnings, in terms of their identity and their susceptibility to depression and substance abuse. i have seen this with my own friends. my guy friends struggle more than my girlfriends, frankie. what is going on? >> i think if you things are going on. i think richard's work on this has been brilliant, though, when you look at how many men have departed from the workforce, as compared to women, but also, they departed to where? not just unemployment, but higher death rates, higher suicide rates. interestingly, higher rates of addiction to things like opioids. you are seeing changes in man's place in society. if you take a look at the jobs of my father, or his father's father, there are not that many coal mines. if you take a look at the auto business, how much of the assembly line is robotic now? how many men have been displaced

as women have been entering the workforce? >> and there are fewer manual labor jobs which obviously, men filled. >> there is that, but other dynamics which we have to think about, which is, how many men got by in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, as mid-level executives who were only vaguely competent, who were great buying a beer after work and terrific at their golf game who have been replaced by a growing pool of women executives and managers who are just better at the job, and you know, those are the x factors. >> that raises two important questions, which is basically, everyone needs a purpose. right? and an identity. obviously, that is being challenged for men. at the same time, our men just naturally less adaptable? cultures change, things have changed. women have had to adapt. is there something that men are not adapting to? >> i think there are a lot of men that are not adapting, but i think that i take a bit of a

hardhearted approach to this. to laura's point, women have been discriminated against in our society and in our world for ever. there is still major discopathy between women's pay and men's pay. obviously, on the mental health stuff, that needs to be taken seriously. richard point and some of his proposals are really interesting, but when it comes to the economics and education, i think that we should be celebrating the fact that women are making corrections >> why does it have to come at the cost of men? why does it have to be a zero- sum game? >> from the data i read, a lot of it was men staying where they were and women improving, and that, to me, something coming to be celebrated, not something to be bemoaned. >> i think a lot of this has to do with a post-industrialized economy. as we have been talking about these traditionally masculine, male-dominated industries like manufacturing, like coal mining, have declined. meanwhile, the industries that

have shown the biggest growth are traditionally pink color industries. think nursing or healthcare jobs, services. for whatever reason, men have not adapted to that. these are also jobs offer that require post secondary schooling, by the way. you need a degree to become a nurse, for example. you do not necessarily need one indicates in decades past to work at an auto plant. so, you know, the challenges, even though there are more men who have entered nursing, it is still a very female dominated field, these are still very good jobs, still very much in demand. how do you encourage a different vision of what it means to have a sufficiently manly job, so that there is not sort of, this aversion to positions that are increasing, that pay well, and that men don't seem to want to go into. or, does it require a different kind of socialization of boys, for example, so that they have the greater emotional and

social skills that are valuable in many of these jobs i would say, of the future, but frank, of the present. so, a lot of it has to do with economic forces that have changed, for whatever reason, men have become more demoralized rather than adapting, but i didn't know that i put the blame on the men themselves, necessarily, so much as the role models they have and what we are teaching boys, is a laudable strongman ideal to aspire to. >> yeah, i guess, i don't know if we are still teaching boys that. obviously, our culture has changed, but that was true of the original. if we all agree that toxic masculinity is bad, or uncomfortable, i don't know a lot of toxic masculine guys. we can also buy them in a crowded every party there's that guy, but what are we replacing it with? i think that, you know, i read somewhere that honorable masculinity, we do need to give them something.

we need to give them a role, what is the solution? >> well, i am going to have to talk to don draper about that. where do we get from where we started this, in terms of pop- culture? i mean, i had coded. my first nurse was a man. i credit him with saving my life and he wasn't what i was inspecting. i worked in the boys club. >> you sure did. >> nypd. >> you sure did. >> my last commissioner was a woman of color. which, the place had some adjusting to do. >> did they adjust? >> sure they did. and you know, i think that these shifts are a big learning curve. i think the neurological piece needs study, because we have to figure out what that really is. richard teed it up. >> i think that he will tell us what the solutions are. laura? what is the answer here? >> it is so fascinating.

let's bring in the author of the book we are talking about, what a thought-provoking topic. you and i were talking about this, allison, but hearing the responses to the ways you're thinking about it, it is blowing. richard, what is the take away you want people to understand from your incredible book? >> the key thing like susan said is, it is not a zero-sum game even the politicians try to pretend it is. we can continue to work on behalf of women and girls in the many areas of society we need to but also these troubling areas in health, education and claimant, where boys and men are really struggling. unless we take those problems seriously and take responsible action in the education system, in the labor market, you can be sure that other people will benefit from solving the problems that boys and men have. as parents, school teachers, let's take this problem seriously because of responsible people do not address these problems squarely, irresponsible people will exploit them pop. that is the point we are at now where we can have a grown-up conversation about the problems facing boys and men without abandoning our commitment to boys and girls.

>> thanks for the research of great conversation, you guys but that was really thought- provoking. as laura said. what do you all think about the issues affecting men and boys today? that, and anything else you want to say to laura and me, tweet us at laura kirks and alisyn camerota. visibly diminish wrinkled skin in just two days. new crepe corrector lotion only from gold bond. champion your skin. shipstation saves us so much time

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laura, have you taken a look at this controversial mural? have you seen this? >> yes. >> i want to put it up on the screen, because this is happening at a michigan middle school. when i look at this mural, i

see satanism, icy witchcraft, just kidding. that is what some parents at this middle school see. a sophomore in high school painted this lovely mural with animals and hearts and all this nice imagery, and the parents believe that she sort of put in coded messages that read to them as pride and bisexual signaling and witchcraft and satanism. >> by the way, she won an art contest. she didn't just go to a playground and start painting, she put it up after winning something and she says, quote, she put up her artwork there to make people feel welcome. that is not what i am a part of, but is not what i am trying to put out there. it is pretty unbelievable, to think of the reaction that she has gotten. she left a board meeting in tears because of how it was being received, and it really just goes to show you, allison,

in so many respects, that it is almost like people are looking for an issue, looking to find ways people are trying to indoctrinating children or that every symbol is supposed to be nefarious and problematic. this is an example of that. i believe that people are going too far, pushing this notion that our children are exposed to secret signals. >> either we are living in a crazy conspiratorial time, or, she did do something subversive , and put in some sort of easter eggs like taylor swift does in her songs, and maybe she did sneak in some symbols. i don't think it is because she is into witchcraft, and satanism. she was trying to, you know, painted this very inclusive and welcoming mural. the fact that the parents ganged up on her at that school meeting and left her in tears, and she was quivering and said i was just trying to make

people feel welcome, it has gone crazy. >> i don't see the symbolism they are talking about. i am just not seeing it. i will say, the school did decide to live leave the mural up, but she will make some small changes because apparently there was an original pitch from the student that they had cleared and they are going to now change it to make it look exactly like the original pitch but that does mean, allison, that the lgbtq flags on the shirts which is what people had a problem with at one point will stay as they were in the original. >> here is the part she has to take off. it is sort of small, but on the left side there is the home's eye hand, there, which is the hand of god in some middle eastern cultures. they don't like that she put that in there, so that has to go. and then, there is a mask somewhere and i could not find it. i studied this mural, there is a mask somewhere that they think means satanism or something and that has to go.

but if you cannot find it i'm not sure the message is really getting -- having the desired effect. >> this reminds me, remember those old highlights magazine with the hidden figures trying to find things? i will ask my kids about it. i am not afraid to expose them to art. >> very good. >> listen, the gop also has been pushing a claim that cities with progressive prosecutors have higher crime rates, allison, which is actually not true. we will tell you what is really going on with crime next.

as you know, republicans are hammering democrats on crime, claiming that liberal- led cities are unsafe. they are going from everything from century cities, to cashless bail initiatives. our friend ron brownson has a new article in the atlantic titled what is really going on with the crime rate. he writes about this new study from researchers at the liberal think tank center for american progress, quote, countering conventional wisdom, the study found that homicides over recent years increased less rapidly in cities with progressive prosecutors than in those with more traditional district attorneys. it also found no meaningful differences between the cities with progressive or traditional das in the trends for larceny and robbery,". that reinforces another study earlier this year from centrist democratic group third way that found the murder rate was higher

in 2020 in states that voted for donald trump. back now to discuss, we had a john miller, compo, and campbell. i thought that progressive cities like and cisco and portland, oregon, where hotbeds of crime right now but that's not true? >> i think it is true. if you are looking at places that have the most progressive district attorneys, philadelphia, chicago, los angeles, violence is off the hook in philadelphia. off the hook in chicago. but, i also think the studies are missing something. one, when you go by percentages, and we don't see the raw numbers, you can't tell if crime was a 68% higher in this city because they had 10 murders that your and it went up by a small number -- >> are you saying you reject the premise? you do think that places with progressive leaders are more crime infested? because, that other study about red states where donald trump one, i think we have a cdc map, the 10 states -- where murder

is the highest are red states where there is not progress is in charge. >> so, i think that if you look at who did the studies and how the studies were done, they had the answer before they did the study. i think that when you have to put -- >> that was the cdc. >> okay, but if you look at places that have progressive district attorneys. in new york, we have five district attorneys, some of them you would say are progressive and some less so, but 35 states implement criminal justice reform laws that took das who would have otherwise been not progressive, and made them progressive, because they were literally legislated out of entire categories of crimes that would have been prosecuted. so, i think the studies needed to be broader. i think that brownstein is writing about the study was

smarter than the study because he quoted people outside the study who said more research needs to be done. >> i do think one thing it doesn't speak to is the difference between the narrative and what the facts support. the narrative is that these progressive policies are so overly woke that they are destroying cities. when you drill down and actually look at what a lot of them are saying, i don't think most people would have a problem. you are talking about things like trying to reduce the number of juveniles tried as adults. for getting police officers for misconduct. trying to reduce cash bail, and cash bail specifically is a very big problem because it is estimated that up to 70% of people currently in county and city jails are just there because they cannot afford bail. but have not yet been convicted of anything, and 43% of those people are black. so, i think that when you drill down and look at what is actually being proposed, and and acted in these cities, they are not really things that a lot of people would have problems with. so, because crime is multilayered, i think that saying, it is these progressive policies of course, it is a very simple sale and a simple thing for voters to buy,

because it is easy to say that one is soft on crime, that is what you're seeing this crime but it is much more nuanced than that. >> i also think the narrative we are seeing, catherine, is that things are not being prosecuted. so there are shoplifting, there is a homelessness problem in san francisco, not that it is a crime but there is a feeling of lawlessness, that police have backed off or they're not getting the support, or things are not being prosecuted. >> i think it probably has become more difficult to become a police officer in the past couple of years. for good reasons and bad. there are some things that should the -- they should pause before doing, like shooting an unarmed person for example, and you know, there is probably some chilling effect on things that would be helpful for them to engage in. but, you know, i think that part of the issue, here, is that this is a lot more about perception, and vibes. it is true, crime has gone up across the country. if you look at the cities that

have the highest murder rates, it is not san francisco or new york, it is like st. louis. you know? a number of states in the south have -- red states have cities, they might have a democratic mayor but i would not call them a bastion of bleeding heart liberalism but you know, progressive -- you know, let's let out all the criminals mindset, but there are a lot of parts of the country that i think are perceived as being more crime heavy areas but that does not match what the crime stats show. we don't want crime in any of these places but a lot of this is really about perception. it is about, to some extent, scaring the people who don't live in those places, rather than convincing the people who do. i hear from friends of mine, i live in manhattan, i hear from friends who live in westchester who asked me, isn't it really scary being in new york? i'm like no, there are homeless

people, but no, i'm not terrified walking around. there are parts of the country it probably would be scared about. >> i think when you get down to the numbers in 2016, 2017, 2018, new york city had little the lowest crime in recorded history. we had under 300 murders in a city of 8.6 million. >> what changed? >> what changed was, we had sweeping criminal justice reform , that was meant to address a number of the problems you brought up, which had already been saltier. we had the lowest incarceration rate, we had the lowest numbers of arrests. >> you are saying they overcorrected? >> they overcorrected. the physics of politics has always been for every action, there is an equal but opposite overreaction. and now, we go through a year where murders are up 38%, and shootings are doubled and people are scratching their heads as academics, pretending to wonder how this happened. that is how it happened. >> laura, i know you have been listening to this conversation. >> it's fascinating. the idea here, one of the thing

that creates that perception are the narratives. people hear things over and over again, they believe that there is some iota of truth and run with it. speaking of inertia, things in motion will stay in motion until they are disrupted. i wonder if the truth will do just about. it's really fascinating. great conversations, it is time for all of you to sound off. we will read your tweets, next. hi. i'm wolfgang puck when i started my online store wolfgang puck home i knew there would be a lot of orders to fill and i wanted them to ship out fast that's why i chose shipstation shipstation helps manage orders reduce shipping costs and print out shipping labels it's my secret ingredient shipstation the number 1 choice of online sellers and wolfgang puck go to shipstation.com/tv and get 2 months free

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