>> thank you so much for joining us tonight. you can follow me on facebook, instagram, twitter, and tiktok, at jake tapper. our coverage now continues with the magnificent laura coats and the splendid, splendid alison camerota. hey, lauren and alison. >> hello! >> hey, jake. i'm not thinking personally. it was splendid squared. >> jake, fascinating conversation with bob woodward. isn't it fascinating how donald trump keeps agreeing to be interviewed by bob woodward but then, as often annoyed at having been interviewed by bob woodward? >> well, he did interviews with

maggie haberman, too, for her book. and then goes on twitter, or whatever, truth social, sorry, and bad-mouths her. i mean, i think the truth of the matter, he can't quit us. he can't talk with us, he just can't. journalists, as much as he wants to own, like, as much as he wants to stay in his comfort zone and only talk to people in other channels, you know, challenging him all that much, he really wants to be accepted by people at the new york times and elsewhere. >> and cnn. >> i found it interesting, though, he thought about it. the idea of him releasing all the states and the motivation that he spoke to about the reasons why doing so, and in a way, i wonder if he will be questioned in terms of trying to put the thumb on the scale, for whatever reason. there's often criticism towards journalists that suggests the types of stories you publish and the ones you want to put forward somehow lead people to

question what your role is, or why you are trying to make it known. i think it was perfectly wonderful that she was able to express a lot of those things, and in those states out there. i do wonder what the backlash would be, given the motivation he spoke about. >> well, i mean, he just said that it was listening to the states. it's not really about january 6th. most of our conversation this evening was, you know, about foreign policy and about how trump dealt with covid, or didn't deal with covid. and he just said he was just listening to the tapes with his assistant and with his wife, allison, and he was just stunned that it's different than just reading it on the page. when he says it's the national security challenge of your lifetime, it's the leadership challenge of your life, and on the page, it just says, trump says no. and when you hear the tape, he is like, now! and it's just like -- it's different. so that's why he is taking this extraordinary step, also because he obviously thinks donald trump is a threat to democracy, and national security. >> hey, listen, i know as a

prosecutor, you want things to leave off the page, and have that transcript come to life. it's not without consequence that people question what you do. so, it's fascinating. >> all right, jake tapper -- >> no! >> you can say no, jake. but we can't quit you, either. >> no! >> yes. >> good luck, guys. have a great show! talk to you later. >> good evening everyone. i'm alison camerota. >> and i am laura coates, and this is cnn tonight. and we've got new sound from the big guy. this debate happened right now tonight in florida between ron desantis and charlie crist. and early tomorrow, it's gonna be john fetterman up against dr. mehmet oz in pennsylvania senate debate. but the question we are really wondering is to what extent these debates really are persuading people? do they still matter to you out there, or are they somehow victim of an already polarized politics. >> or just political theater? is that what they're good for? >> fulfilling prophecy, who knows? meanwhile, what are armed men in tactical gear doing at a ballot drop boxes in arizona?

take a look at this. would this intimidate you as you drove up to drop off your ballot, if you saw guys dressed in mac, masks and tactical gear? is this even legal? tonight, we're gonna talk to a lawyer who just filed a suit to stop this. >> and you know what they say, the truth is out there somewhere, not in politics. but a little bit closer, the ufos, everyone. and of course, i know you and i talked about this. you are very interested in this. i feel like you maybe think a whole area, 7:51, what's it called again -- >> i don't know, but i believe it. i know that much. >> what is that right there? what is that, okay? and navy pilots, and all sorts of pilots have seen this, credible people. there is no explanation. and now, today, nasa is doing something about it. we'll tell you why they are putting together, their best minds to actually get to the bottom of what those things are. >> this is our whole day today already, actually. me and allison went back and

forth about, what is that right there? i'm like, i don't know! we need to find out tonight. >> we're gonna find out tonight. we're >> gonna find the truth tonight. stay tuned. but kicking off with some looming winters out of us, and here with us tonight to talk about this, probably a little bit of ufos -- cnn's john berman. >> i drove to roswell after i graduated college. my trip post-college was to drive to roswell, new mexico. to find out the truth. >> we've got a whole panel tonight. wow! i'm gonna talk more about that. also good congressman charlie dent. did you also drive to roswell with your college friends? >> no, but i've been married 51. >> wow, a lot of pressure now on democrat maria cardona. you have a connection somehow? did you lost the -- >> i would love to go to both roswell and area 51, and i love anything having to do with that ufos. so, yes, i'm down to do that. >> we have a lot to talk about. the whole show just changed. >> yes, it's rated. john, our debates still

relevant in their helping butters choose candidates, or are they just political theater at this point. >> you know how much i love theater. i think the answer is yes to everything. i think their political theater, but i think it's political theater that matters to some. you know, i think the new movie, highly nuanced tonight, on everything from extraterrestrial to debates. i think we're also polarized now that there are times that people go to watch a debate when there are more sick than they might have been in the past. there aren't as many persuadable voters watching the debate. however, i do think on the margins, and depending on the race, they can have consequences. i know we're gonna be talking about florida, you know, we have ron desantis against charlie crist. maybe, it won't turn the tide in that race down there, but ron desantis wants to be doing things, maybe other things, a few years from now. maybe something will have some impact down the line. >> it might persuade people, right? for the 2024 election that he is alluding to. but in terms of where we are right now, i mean, this is one of the first times in recent

years that the florida governor 's race has been as much of a lead for the republican candidate, or any candidate frankly in this moment in time. and i wonder, given that it seems to be the trajectory that it is, is this an instance he is auditioning for 2024? or is there something to lose right now? >> yes, he is auditioning for 2024. but in a debate, he used to want to make mistakes. if you make a bad mistake, you can stumble. that can hurt you. you don't want to make any big gaffes or errors. he should be fine. but this is not gonna change the trajectory of the race. desantis is going to win, but he is on the stage. he is looking at 2024. this is about that. >> let's play this moment, maria, about when he was asked directly, if you would serve a four-year term as governor, if he wins? >> you are running for governor, why don't you look in the eyes of the people in the state of florida, and say to them, if you are reelected, you will serve a full four-year term as governor, yes or no?

yes or no, ron? when you serve a full four-year term if you are we elected governor of florida? >> that is a trick question. >> that is a fair question, but he won't tell you. >> we did not agree on the candidates asking each other questions. governor, it's your turn. listen, i know that charlie is interested to talk about 2024 in joe biden. but i guess it would make things very, very clear. the only worn out old donkey and looking to put out to pasture is charlie crist. >> that is a fierce line. >> so, does that help him or hurt him that he won't answer whether or not he would serve -- >> i actually think with his base, it probably helps him. because everyone who loves ron desantis, loves the fact that he is now this national figure, they think it probably brings more prestige to florida. it will give him more power, if he does get reelected. and so i think this debate tonight probably didn't change the trajectory but it's also,

like, one of those war shock tests, right? you talk to desantis campaign, they think he obliterated crist. you talk to the other campaign, they think he'll be rated desantis. but it did needed to be one where did change the trajectory for crist, given where he is in the polls, and while i do think, from what i hear and what i've seen, crist did do well, and in the places where i think it really needed to underscore, the extreme nature of desantis's agenda in terms of abortion, in terms of lgbtq, in terms of denying history for the african american community, all of those things for things that crist did a really good job of underscoring. and maybe it doesn't matter in the margins i don't think the margins are gonna be big enough for it to change. >> i'm gonna take a step back. if we are out of florida for a moment, i know there's a lot of focus on select races. but more broadly, are we really saying that we are, as an electorate, we are so entrenched, and our heels are

dug in, that we, essentially, think of these races and the debates that are supposed to give opportunity to figure out, which are talking about, the people have already had their minds made up. and if that is the case, then what's with all the ads. i mean, these ads are coming out of the woodwork, right? to make sure they're thinking, hey, hold on, i can make them, get this last person to change their mind. >> i think a lot of election night, over the last two, four, six years, that have turned into election weeks. why? because some of these races are wicket close, as we like to shea say in boston. so, i think even though 96% of the people showing up at the polls may be dead set on their vote, there is still this tiny sliver, really, a sliver of nova, the tiniest sliver of the voting population out there who is waiting and watching and can be swayed by something. people don't watch senate and gubernatorial races the way they watch presidential debates. i, mean the numbers for these debates are not gonna be what they are in the national stage

-- >> but the early voting numbers are arriving in some of those presidential elections already. i mean -- >> but it seeps into the headlines of local news. it seeps into the headlines of the papers for a few days, and it can't be a national thing. when you're talking about prices that can be decided by fewer than 10,000 votes, which you guys know, they can't -- >> a lot of them today that can -- >> there are still an impactful number of swing voters out there. there aren't as many as used to be, but there are enough. some of these races are gonna come down to the wire, a number of them. pennsylvania senate race probably three or four house races in pennsylvania. they're gonna be razor-thin. and so, these swing voters still matter. >> let's talk about what we will be seeing tomorrow with the fetterman of debate, what are you looking for? >> actually, this debate is gonna matter, because there's a lot of question about fetterman's capacity to serve after the stroke. and he hasn't been particularly transparent about it at least initially. and they understated the problem. so, people are gonna watch closely. they're gonna be using closed captioning for him. so people want to see if he is

up to the task, if he can actually can stand on his own, because he's had mostly very well scripted events. he is controlling oz oz effectively on social media, but he hasn't done a lot of public events. so this is the first time he's gonna be on his own. so, i think it's gonna make a difference. >> you wonder, taking that notion, i mean, just earlier tonight, you had the gubernatorial candidate incumbent, ron desantis, making last-minute promises, along the lines of what was it? free baby items -- >> like a chicken in every pot in florida. i mean -- isn't it crazy? let's listen. >> which we're gonna do four for agents who commute, we are going to reduce told by 50% statewide for all commuters in the state of florida. we are going to make all baby items, diapers, whips, wipes, you name it, tax free permanently in the state of florida so you can raise kids and get by. you know, we have a five and a four and a two year old. our two-year-old is out of diapers. why did you propose that in

your first year in office? we'll, you live and learn. and we need to say that pet food is going to be tax free in the state of florida. >> so, maria, look, that's the last ditch effort. that is -- [inaudible] the dog and get the vote right there. >> that is a socialist agenda fire for someone. >> i know. >> again, i don't think that things are going to change the trajectory in that specific race, because i don't think that is at the margins that we are talking about where 10,000 votes, 20,000 votes are going to matter. as grave as i think, and from what i've seen, from what i've heard, and i talk to chris's campaign, as great as i think chris did, and as important as it was for him to really put out there how dangerous, and i think it is true, it's dangerous, the kind of agenda that desantis is running on -- >> yeah, crist can't make those promises. and they've got a big applause line. >> exactly. >> well, the states are flush with federal money, that's what this is about. and that's why he can throw tax

cuts willy-nilly. i mean, would use tolls, in my state, that's what baseball a lot of road construction and repairs. i mean, you know, okay, the pet food, the diapers, i don't know. it's clear to me, they've got a lot of federal stimulus money that isn't spent. so they can't cut taxes right now. >> you know it's jaw-dropping about this? they got all this money that republicans did not vote for. so, again, it's the last tranche. this is rampant. >> he kept on going! he thought it was done with the babies, but then he went on and on -- i mean, i was waiting for him to go to puppies and kittens. >> he's gonna be actually paying for your next trip to roswell. that was the end of the soundbite with your -- >> we ate fast food the entire time. it's never expensive. that's next. >> so what do you all think? debates still help voters make up their minds? are they still minds left to be changed out there? let us know. anything else you want to say to laura at me, tweet us out at alison colorado and laura coats. . ♪ ♪ ♪

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>> election is two weeks away, but voting is already underway. more than 7 million voters across 39 states have already returned their ballots. but there are also reports of voter intimidation. in arizona, six complaints have already been referred to the doj and the arizona attorney generals office. people reported being photographed and followed.

if one ballot drop off place and to reportedly armed men wearing tactical gear or hanging out near a ballot drop box in mesa, arizona, according to maricopa county officials. a lawsuit was just filed trying to stop these tactics. plaintiffs alleging that the group has violated the voting rights act and the ku klux klan act of 1871. joining me now is one of the lawyers behind that lawsuit, democratic voting rights attorney, marc elias. mark, thanks so much for being here. can you just describe what these guys in tactical gear, and masks who are reportedly also with guns, what are they doing at these drop off boxes? >> they are intimidating voters. i mean, let's just call it out for what it is. they are not there because they want to observe. they are there because they want to create an environment that makes people afraid to use ballot drop boxes. ballot drop boxes in arizona are entirely legal. there is nothing suspicious

about them. and a group of election deniers and big lie advocates have arranged this, so that people are afraid to vote. >> and who are those guys? do you know who they are? >> so, we named the organization that seems to be the umbrella for this effort, and its leader. we also named a series of john doe and jane doe defendants, because as you say, some of the people who were at these polling locations at masked, our armed, are otherwise acting in a way that it's hard to identify who they are. but if we identify who they are, we will have them as defendants to this lawsuit. >> so, you've just filed the lawsuit. it would -- i would think that being with a gun at a ballot drop box, and in tactical gear, wearing a mask, that would be illegal. however, the maricopa county

sheriff says that is not the case, that people can bear arms. here's what he said tonight. >> it doesn't meet a threshold for crime, and that presence of itself, that does not, okay? this is a free nation. the second amendment is important as the first. so people have the right to bear arms and use the gear that they wear. this is by they're choosing. >> so, mark, what about that? what if it's not illegal? >> well, two things. first of all, when the sheriff there is talking about is whether it violated the criminal law of arizona. we are not alleging that it violates the criminal of arizona. we are pointing out that it violates the federal laws, the federal voting rights act, the federal glucose clan act that make it, that create a cause of action to prevent people from intimidating people from voting. so, whether it's a crime under state law, i don't know. i begged the sheriff at his word, but it's certainly a violation of federal law. >> so, we are only two weeks away. obviously, people are already

voting. how are you going to stop them as of tomorrow? >> so, tomorrow, we expect it will be before a judge. my team and lawyers in the state representing the alliance for retired americans and voto latino. we will hopefully convince a judge to issue a temporary restraining order which is to prevent this, while we sort out who is who, and what exactly is going on, because the right to vote, the supreme court has said, it's a fundamental, and preserves all of the rights. and what we have here is just a sad and despicable instance of people trying to prevent people from exercising that right. >> have you heard from people who are trying to drop off their ballots and felt scared? >> we've had people reach out to us. we have a process for vetting them. so, i do want to go too far beyond what's in the complaint. but i think that complaint lays out a pretty compelling argument and that there had

been people who have come forward, who said that they were questioned, who said that they were tailed, who said that they were intimidated. and that's all it takes to meet the federal statutes that we psyched. >> one more thing, mark, i know that there's a couple of posts on donald trump's social media company, that are connected. how so? >> so, not surprising, since donald trump with the original election denier, that his company truth social is a place where these election deniers and big lie advocates and votes oppressors share messages, you know? the way you and i might do on twitter, they do on truth social. and so, we attached screenshots of what they are saying on that website about how they are encouraging that organizing these efforts. >> okay, marc elias, let us know what happens. we were be obviously following the lawsuit as well as early

voting in arizona. thanks so much for your time. >> thank you. >> so, that was informative. >> oh, yeah! >> actually, it is not necessarily against state law, but he is stealing federal -- >> i mean, as part of voting rights division, i would actually monitor elections for these very reasons. we try to see whether or not somebody was actually trying to intimidate voters. because you could imagine, if you were to follow that thread, if somebody is outside, and there are copying down their license plate, if they're standing out in some way, armed. if they are trying to say anything to you, if they are doing something that makes you feel less willing to exercise your right to vote, that is an intimidation aspect. and of course, the way to do it, it's all the details. but he's right. i mean, at the state level, it might be very different from what is proven for the voting rights act of 1965. and that's the first time we haven't seen this. we have a different election cycle, people outside the polls, it was the frustration of 2020 out just how close, even

official observers could go to the voters. and so, i think this sends a very big message to what's gonna happen next. but yeah -- >> we'll see. we should also mention that the group to t mentions in his lawsuit is called clean elections usa. that is a thing who he believes is behind this. we are reaching out, cnn is reaching out to them, and we've not heard back yet, but we'll update you as soon as we do. >> they will certainly answer if they are in a private complaint. look, alleged voter intimidation in arizona as one thing. but as they say, wait, there is more. now, there are mysterious robocalls and fake campaign ads, just two weeks before the midterm elections. and alison, forget the gloves coming off. the dirty tricks are coming out. ♪ ♪ ♪

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>> it's only john matt garland now vowing the doj will not permit voters to be intimidated before the midterms. but frankly, voter intimidation is not the only concern, as candidates are vying for a win. we are seeing plenty of mr. ex and outright tricks trying to sway voters. the question is, how effective are they going to be? we are back now with john berman, charlie dent, and maria cardona. before we even think about this, the dirty tricks, this intimidation could be part of that, as well. the idea of trying to force voters to question whether it's worth it to vote, right? that is at the core. >> absolutely. and you heard mark's saying, and i'm so glad he's doing this, because there is no one better at what he's doing in terms of protecting everyone's right to

vote, and their voice to be heard. that voto latino is joining him in these lawsuits because it is arizona. a lot of what we are seeing is that these are happening in places where there could be voters that have mixed households, mixed status household, meaning there could be undocumented people living in that household. that is absolutely a definitive and outright intimidation tactic, to keep latino voters from voting, because they know that that is gonna be something that is going to really raise the fear of someone who is going to vote, who might have people in their household who arenwith papers. >> there is the fear, though, right? and then, there is the robocalls. >> yes! they are actually dirty tricks. and listen, those robocalls, happening in georgia, that is someone pretending to support space stacey abrams. let's listen to this. >> this is jill, and my pronouns archie her.

i'm sure you'll agree with me that people that identify as women are under attack, not just in georgia, but throughout our country. georgia is lucky to have stacey abrams and sanford bishop fighting for our abortion rights, while some elected officials are trying to limit abortion rights to six months, or even five months after conception. we are so lucky to have stacey abrams and sanford bishop fighting to protect our right to have an abortion up until the date of birth. >> oh god! that is just so -- >> well, sick. >> sick, and very overt, right? >> i've been around for a few elections, and this goes on and every election where these nasty robocalls go out at the 11th hour. it's not the 11th hour yet i get. but they make these calls, and nobody knows who really pays for them. that's a dirty trick. >> normally, they go out so

late, and that when you do catch, or you figure out who's doing it, whose funding it, at that point, the elections already done. >> we used to call them suppression calls -- >> well, that's more across the line. those calls are illegal. i mean, the goal may be -- >> i mean, there have been calls telling people the wrong dates, the wrong places to go. that is definitely a suppression call. but this is as old as the southern strategy. and frankly, republicans have engaged in this -- sorry, charlie, more than democrats have. and jimmy, it is an indication that republicans are afraid to let more people vote. they are the ones who are focused on keeping these logs on the book, that keep people from voting, that make it more difficult for people to vote, especially women, people of color, lgbtq. and to me, that is just states that this is a party that is afraid that the more people vote, the less they will win. >> but i mean, on that call, you just played, i did not hear that as the idea of trying to turn people away. i heard that as more of a call

to say, with the use of pronouns, trying to have the signal that, look, remember the america that we are talking about, if you don't remember that anymore, try to appeal some sort of nostalgia. make america great when it was. it was an anti wokeness -- >> totally. i >> think they're trying to galvanize people to turn out, and they kept saying stacey abrams name, or you know, bishops name. that was intentional, not suppression al, absolutely. >> in campaigns, you both know, it's not only does this happen, but there are people who make their living -- >> oh, clearly. >> those calls are cheap. those are the poor man's nuclear weapon. i've always said that in a campaign. if your campaign doesn't have much money, it doesn't cost a lot to do a robocall. by the way, republicans have a monopoly on these types of -- >> they just do it more. >> you do know where they're coming from. their actual tv ads. and some of them this year are linking democrats to defund the police. democrats never said defund the

police. democrats who voted to give more money to locals, and so, here, isn't that false advertising? aren't there laws about truth and advertising. why is that allowed? why is that legal? if you are seeing an outright lie on this -- >> look, both sides will try to link numbers to the most extreme elements of their party. it happens all the time. i agree with you. most democrats don't want to defund the police, but there's a lap loud group of them who do. just as there are republicans who are -- >> not the ones that are being -- >> i would agree with that. but you go to -- look, it is just a fact of life. >> i know, but you are just accepting the dirty tricks are a fact of life. i mean, there are laws against this. >> and this one is especially egregious because actually, democrats voted to give billions of dollars to lawn force majeure sources, to hire police. >> they don't have to air ads that are false. so, there is a responsibility to make sure that, yeah, there

is a responsibility to make sure that there are not lies within this. i mean, to see exact ads here, the exact language -- >> by the way, according to a cnn fact check -- >> here's the thing, no, litigation, i know the word is serious, but litigation is actually america's favorite past time. but you have the deadline of the elections, so who is going to sue to follow up? it's not just republicans against democrats are doing this, but even within the party of democrats, you have some at that are deceptive, disingenuous. we are trying to put the two against each other, and in attempt to do tickets putting. like inventive a, now i was telling you about that pitted fetterman against shapiro. listen to this. >> i'm actually a democrat. i am running on my record on crime. >> john fetterman's record on crime is crazy. >> he is not like most democrats. >> dozens of times, he was the only vote to pardon criminals.

>> 225 times, josh shapiro voted against the criminals, but fetterman voted to release them. that is nuts. fetterman is way more radical van shapiro. >> what is wrong with this guy? >> you know, you raised at that point. >> i mean, that is a conservative super pac. >> but you can't say that spitting democrats are putting -- >> but that's a conservative -- >> you are correct, it's not necessarily the democrats are paying for it. but my point, is it's not just an attempt to try and put a republican against a democrat. it's also about the notion that, look, and some places, they want to have tickets putting. they want to be able to say, all right, i can't go as far as that, but i'll take mehmet oz maybe. >> do you know why are they doing that? because they know that josh shapiro is gonna win. and so, these republicans are saying, okay, well, you know, we have a crazy guy running against joshua pirro. he is not gonna win. so, let us try to focus on fetterman. >> they are going after shapiro

oz motors. i happen to be one of them. john fetterman has voted on the board of pardons, elected some really bad actors out of prison. one guy who murdered somebody, snapped him 26 times. you know, josh shapiro has not voted the same way. >> why did fetterman vote to let him out? >> that is a good question because many people have tied fetterman, not only to this prison reform movement, he wants to depopulate the prisons. like the da in philadelphia, larry krasner, who is a subject of impeachment in there right now, because he really failed. >> i know when you say that's a good question, and the reason i recall a little bit from that is because it's c planting, and then at least voters say that's a good question. but rather than have the onus to find out, they say -- >> go out there and take it. >> and that is trying to talk about the idea and lawsuits and

who's gonna worry about it. i think a lot of that, banking on people not wanting to follow the thread, or not doing the research. >> they don't want to do the homework -- >> which is that. >> that is why some of these -- >> will find out. campaigns, if democrats want to push back on this, they have got to get on the air. fetterman has got to get people on the air and push back on the specific thing, if they want to get that message out. that's how it is done. >> that's right. so, debates matter. tomorrow is a debate night, alison. let's talk about tomorrow. >> i'm sure this will come up tomorrow. i'm sure fetterman will address this -- all right, everyone, stay with us, if you would. there is now an official and nasa ufo investigation team. will they find out what that is? that is what we want to know. what is that thing right there? i listen and i are very interested. the truth may be out there. ♪ ♪ ♪

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-- the panel will include retired nasa astronaut scott kelly, and experts and astro biology, oceanography, and data science. a full report with the team's findings is suspected to be released in mid 2023. what are we waiting for? back with us now, john berman, charlie dent, maria cardona. guys, can i just remind you, because i want you to show you, these are navy pilots, not me at home, with a telescope. these are navy pilots. i want to show you, this was navy pilots, not me at home with a telescope. these were navy pilots. >> we don't believe you. [laughs] >> i'm gonna prove it to now.

watch this. [noise] >> there was another one that defied all of the rules of the aerodynamics. like it can go straight up at the speed of, you know, light, or sound, or something. it starts around, it was freaking them out. john, what is that? >> i mean, you never hear pilots swear like that. that never happens. i don't know what it was. i don't want to be a skeptic. i do feel roswell. you're making a mad face of me. i don't know what it was. >> why don't you just say it's an alien? when you say that? >> because neil de grasse tyson -- >> he wants to be an incredible journalist still. >> all respect, right? he points out that everyone on earth has got at least one of these things now. some of us have two of them. and given that we all have these things, taking really

good pictures with them, come all the pictures that we pour over and try to pull some kind of colonel, shred of evidence that it's a ufo, i like this? why? >> because it's the iphone? >> the only people out in the atmosphere can see them of the navy pilots. >> i swear -- >> you have a burner phone, john? well you have two phones? charlie, you are in congress. you know some classified information about what that is? >> i remember being invited to a briefing or two on the subject, which i blew off. >> why? >> because i had more important things to do. >> seriously. the navy couldn't figure this out. so glad we have the space for us now. but if you cadets on this one, see if they can figure it out. but i'm glad they're gonna do some research on this. apparently, they can't explain. you talk about things that are aerodynamically and sound, why put bumblebees and helicopters in that category. >> also next couple. >> we all kind of joke, and i

give you a hard time about this. but in all honesty, i'm actually very into agreed. intrigued. >> i think there's something to the idea that every time someone hears about it, there's some glazing over effect. i don't know why. is it because -- are we afraid as the civilization that it might be true? why do we look at this -- it's been so hollywood its highest, so we say, that can't possibly happen. what is it? >> i think it's a mix of both of those. >> and i think there is part of us, and maybe a lot of people, that actually do not believe it. but like john, doesn't want to be the one to jump in and say, yes, this is actually an alien, because we don't know enough about it. >> so many times -- >> there you, go exactly. but i also read that so many times, there have been things like this, maybe not like those kinds of pictures, but whether it's like a blue light that no one can explain.

and then, finally, it comes down to, it is some scientific phenomenon of light and sound and whatever else is out there in the atmosphere. and that might be what this ends up being. >> maybe -- >> but we don't know! >> maybe or maybe not. >> the navy pilots who were on 60 minutes said what they both saw, separately, it was something that we don't have the technology for. the technology does not exist on earth for that, whatever they saw, to move in the direction that it moved at the speed that it did, and pop up in another place. and so, that was a few years ago. we need to get to the bottom of that. >> they're legitimizing it -- though [inaudible] all of us are layman, right? compared to anyone at nasa. but the idea that nasa is adding some level of gravitas, i feel it moves the needle. >> hey, nasa just took out that asteroid, or re-directed it.

that was pretty interesting. look, i'm glad they're gonna do the research. i'm glad they're gonna study this, and let them figure out what it was. i'm not gonna speculate. >> i do want to believe. i think we should look into it. we should not close off the possibility, but i do think the standard to be convinced is a little higher, but that blur. >> john, to your point, and to answer in neil de grasse tyson, it could be. you talked about this laura, if we don't even have the technology that this does not contain the technology to photograph them, in whatever pronouns they might want to use -- [laughs] >> this is entirely new confusion. you are right, what pronouns will they used when they land on earth? well -- >> speaking of what you have you couldn't believe, do you know what's unbelievable to so many people on out there, that slavery is on the ballot in five states. it's not extraterrestrial. >> you're gonna explain this to us. >> i am going to explain why, after this. ♪ ♪ ♪

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>> so, voters in five states had the chance to wipe slavery and indentured servitude off the books on election day. >> i have no idea they were still on the books. >> if you thought that slavery was outlawed in this country, back in 1865, with the 13th amendment, let me remind you, it's actually one exception to it. the object of section one of the amendment reads, neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime, where the party should be dually convicted, shall exist within the united states, or any place in the jurisdiction, excuse me.

so, slavery and servitude is a potential punishment in more than a dozen states. though the penalty hasn't been enforced since the civil war, listen, now voters, alison, in alabama, in louisiana, in vermont, oregon, tennessee, they have a chance now to remove the punishment from their states constitution, once and for all. essentially saying that the 13th amendment would be universal and not include those who've been prisoners as well. but the way they're doing it is causing a little bit of confusion. >> okay, let me just make sure understand this. slavery is still legal, if you are a convicted, if you are a convict. so, in prison, in those five states, if you are a convict, i assume of like a murder or rape, something where you are doing some hard time -- >> or a felony. >> any felony? >> the key is there's always been an exception to be able to use like a chain gang, you know, the idea of forcing someone to perform services without being able to provide them any

compensation. >> without pay. >> so the idea of slavery, servitude, you have this language there. let me show you an example of why this is on the ballot and why not. so, in louisiana for example, here is on the ballot, and it says, do you support an amendment to prohibit their use of involuntary servitude, except as it applies to the otherwise lawful -- meaning, keep the 13th amendment as it is, yes or no? do you want to have an exception that you can force them to work in and of itself? >> that is confusing. but i'm also conflicted about this. don't we want prisoners, particularly murderers, rapists, don't we want them to have to do hard time. isn't that a good punishment for convicted murderers? i mean, in other words, we don't want them to get off easy and not have to do hard labor, or too -- >> well, we could talk about other countries the idea of having labor camps all the time. the idea to think about having somebody, doing their time, being incarcerated, doing hard labor. who is it benefiting, that's the question? and the voters are now gonna have the chance to decide, do they want that exception or not?

i mean it's fascinating, alison, because most people raced that on the ballot. and it's still even something that has to be voted on. >> well, thank you for raising that for all of us. i'm sure we'll get comments on that. meanwhile, the fbi and local sheriff's offices are concerned about the potential for violence at the polls, all because of misinformation. that is coming up. ♪ ♪ ♪ (vo) you can be well-dressed. (man) wahoooo! (vo) you can be well-groomed. or even well-spoken. (man) ooooooo. (vo) but there's just something about being well-adventured. (man) wahoooooo! (vo) adventure on a deeper level. discover more in the subaru forester wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. subaru is the national park foundation's largest corporate donor.

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