top of the hour now on "cnn newsroom." good to have you. i'm victor blackwell. >> i'm alisonyn camerota. after two impeachments, inciting a deadly insurrection and losing the house and senate and 2020 presidential race, donald trump wants to give it another chance, but a day after high profile members of his own party are speaking up. mike pompeo and mike pence lobbed thinly veiled shots talking about the need for, quote, more seriousness. stephen schwartzman said he will not back trump this time.

>> and mitt romney was even more blunt. he said president trump has lost three in a row, and if we want a start winning, we need a new leader. desantis did not comment. republicans believe he poses the biggest challenge, but he dodged questions instead focusing on what happened in the midterms. >> we just finished this election, okay? people just need to chill out a little bit on some of this stuff. i mean, seriously. we just ran an election. [ applause ] we have this georgia runoff coming which is very important for republicans to win that georgia runoff. i mean, i know around the country, florida was kind of the biggest bright spot. it was not so bright in many other parts of the country. it was a substandard performance given the dynamics that are at play. >> joining us now is jake tapper. also anchors "the lead,"

and "state of the union" in person here. >> have i ever seen you in person? >> yeah. of course, you have. look at this. ever seen you in person. >> you're just so handsome. >> i know. let's talk about this. we heard from mitt romney, other republicans as well. we've seen this before. republicans scatter after access hollywood, and they come back. after the insurrection, they come back. is this different? >> it might be, but i wouldn't bet on it. we have seen the national review bashing trump and then of course, come full circle and, you know, become relatively about seek yous for the 2016 election, and you have so take it with a grain of salt, their current op-ed, their current editorial that says, no about trump, but that said, i will say 2018 midterm losses, you can just say, that's midterm losses. people lose seats in midterms. 2020, okay. but republicans actually did

better than expected in the house and senate in 2020 even though biden won. 2022, there seems to be a stink, right? there's a quantifiable stink. candidates that trump backed lost seats in battleground states that were republicans for the taking. pennsylvania, arizona, michigan, nevada and on and on. then i just saw one pollster did a study suggesting that the trump endorsement cost house candidates five points where a republican that didn't have that gained two points. so right now, forget the morality of donald trump or the racism or the anti-semitism or the, you know, proclamations in favor of sexual assault and on and on. now we have, hm. this might be affecting me. so maybe, maybe it is different. >> what do you think about the timing? it's a little early, and historically does getting in early -- does it peter out at some point or does that help you clear the field, and do you

think this is just to insulate himself from indictment or investigation? >> i certainly think based on reporting of people like maggie haberman and others that the latter is definitely part of that. there is a huge investigation. several investigations in fulton county, georgia, the justice department, and on and on, and this can be used by him if not for a legal defense or to scare off the likes of attorney general garland, at least a political defense. look. they're going after me because i'm going to defeat joe biden. why do it? i don't think he's a particularly humble man. i don't think he particularly likes being out of the head lines or the limelight. i think there's probably a degree to which he wants to clear the field, scare people out of running, but really i can't explain donald trump in terms of his calculations. the bottom line is he wanted to do it and he did it, and now the republican party has to deal with it. i will see if they actually have figured out by now that i think it's pretty clear he's a liability for their party. >> speaking of, if this hastens other announcements from

republicans, you have the town hall tonight with former vice president mike pence. >> yes. >> he's out now selling his book, but he's talked around 2024 candidacy. >> right. >> how long can he do that? >> i think he can probably punt it until after the new year, you know, right now his line is, he and his family are going to pray on it and push through christmas and i think he can probably do, that but at some point he's going to have to make decisions and at some point he's going to have to see if he can raise the money to run for president. this is now a multihundred million dollar affair, even a billion dollar affair. can mike pence do that, especially if you have people like ron desantis, donald trump in the race? so i think he could probably kick it down, kick the can down the road for a little bit, but not much longer. >> what can we expect from tonight? >> it's a town hall. lots of voters from new york and new jersey, and others we imported from a place called indiana where the vice president hails from, and there's a lot of questions about the future of the republican party. obviously a lot of questions about january 6th, and it's

certainly not like any other town hall i've done just because you've got this big thing about january 6th and all these questions that i have and i think a lot of voters have too about his feelings about it. because, you know, i can only speak for myself, but if you had incited a deadly insurrection, alisyn -- >> against you? >> against me and my family and almost hurt me, i don't think i would be particularly polite to you or, you know -- >> i think you would forgive me. i just think you would. >> even without you apologizing? you have to run the metaphor all the way through. >> i think i know you well enough. you would forgive me. >> i would? >> just me though. >> just you? not victor. if victor did it, no. i would go the over way around. >> can't wait to watch. >> thank you. be sure to join jake tonight at 9:00 p.m. for a live cnn town hall with former vice president mike pence and on "the lead with jake tapper" at 4:00 p.m. right after this show. we turn now to cedric richmond, a former white house

official, he is now senior adviser to the democrat national committee. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having he. >> very quickly, donald trump announced another presidential run last night. what do you think that does for the next two years? what does it mean for the next two years? >> i think it creates chaos within the republican party. you all have pointed out how those candidates did in the general election, but i think what you have to recognize is those candidates won their primaries to get to the general election, and a lot of them did that with trump's backing. so i think that you can see a scenario where they run towards division, towards divisive rhetoric, towards extremism just to get the nomination, and i think that that will ultimately hurt them in the general election, but i think that you're in for one messy primary on the republican side. >> what does this mean for the president who has not yet said if he will run for re-election? does this potentially change the

timeline for democratic candidates? >> it does not. i think the president at his interview the other day said it's his intention to run. the dnc will take him at his word and be prepared. the infrastructure is there, and he said he would probably make an announcement sometime early next year and i would anticipate that's when we're going to get it. he'll spend time with his family over the holidays and they'll do some soul-searching, and the president will make a firm decision, but right now he says it is his intent to run. >> we are very close to republicans taking control of the house. they're one seat away at this hour, and so what does that mean for president biden's agenda for the next two years if they take the house? >> he's going to keep doing everything that he committed to doing. so think about this. republicans in the senate stopped the george floyd justice and policing act. so the president acted with executive order where he had

authority. if you look at voting rights, he did the same thing up to the limit of where he had authority. so he will continue to try to work with republicans because i think that was one of the main things that came out of this election is that the american people need and want republicans and democrats to work together. so just like he passed the burn act legislation, just like he passed the infrastructure legislation and other pieces of legislation, he did it with bipartisan bipartisan support working across the aisle. the one thing i'll say about this president you can't say about the last president is this president cares about the american people more than he does himself or holding grudges. i suspect he will continue to talk to the leaders of the party and try to find common ground, but there are some things that he will never, ever depart from his core values, but he will always put the american people first. >> so let's talk about how democrats pulled off this

historic, i think would be right to say, midterm result. there had been some criticisms of democratic groups that have spent money on pro-trump candidates. republicans up and down the ballot, senators, house and governors offices. it seemed to work. what do you say to those who were critical of those democratic-leaning groups who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars? >> they didn't say flattering things about those candidates. what they did is just highlight how extreme and how divisive they were. they put them -- gave them an advantage in their primary. all they did was really criticize them on how bad they were and unfortunately for republicans, that's what they were looking for and they got exactly -- >> come on, cedric. the point of spending that money was to elevate them so they would be easier to beat in the

general. it's not like, oh, we just listed some attributes and if they made it to the general, that's what happened. they were meant to get them. >> we knew it was a negative in a general, but we knew they would be attractive to trump's maga base. all it was was a general election ad, but it was designed to draw the maga crowd to that candidate, and if we go back and look, all of those extreme candidates that that played out, every one of them lost. >> there were definitely some moments where it was a be careful what you wish for scenario, and maybe that's happening a little bit again. there are some democrats right now today who seem to be welcoming a donald trump run. i'll start with former governor of virginia terry mcauliffe who said, i think we would all like donald trump to run again, and then bernie sanders this weekend said, the idea of another trump campaign and all of his lies and

divisiveness is an absolute horror show. on the other hand, i've got to say that as a politician who wants to see no republicans elected to the white house in 2024, his candidacy is probably a good thing. what do you think? >> look. we beat him by 7 million votes. so we know we can beat him. the part that worries me is you can never count donald trump out, but the other part is what does this do to the country? two years of lies. two years of hate. two years of division. two years of him picking on people. remember, he bullied a reporter -- a reporter with a disability. he encouraged violence at his rallies. the part that worries me the most is what does giving him a microphone again do to the well-being of this country? look how bullying has spiked up since donald trump came on the scene. so those are the things i'm worried about. am i worried about joseph biden and kamala harris beating donald trump? i'm not. because i think when you start talking about accomplishments,

when you start talking about where we are, i think that the biden/harris track record is much better than trump's years of lying and ruining our reputation on the world stage which over the last two years, the president -- president biden has put back together in an incredible fashion. >> cedric richmond, thank you. well, they do not have subpoena power yet, but house republicans set to lead committees say they will spell out their plans for investigating the biden family tomorrow. >> just last week -- just this week i should say, republicans have seen new developments in a lawsuit accusing the fbi of pushing social media companies to block stories about the president's son, hunter biden, and cnn's evan perez joins us with his new reporting. what have you learned, evan? >> reporter: well, alisyn, this is a very unusual lawsuit. this is a lawsuit by the states of missouri and louisiana, and they have found a very friendly judge in western louisiana who is ordering the fbi, the top

cybersecurity official at the fbi's office in san francisco to sit for a deposition for the government produce documents as part of this lawsuit. what they are alleging is that the fbi and the u.s. government essentially bullied the social media platforms, facebook and others, to suppress discussion about stories of hunter biden's laptop back in 2020, and despite the fact the parent company of facebook actually wrote to these officials saying that there is no -- there was actually no indication that this official from the fbi or anyone else from the fbi actually told facebook to suppress this information. there's discussion of the hunter biden laptop. so this is a very unusual lawsuit, and it kind of gives you a preview of what we're going to see from republicans once they have the gavel, once they're able to issue subpoenas in these house committees. they've talked about going after

hunter biden, of course, but they're also wanting to explore what the government may have done to try to tell facebook and other social media companies to discourage posts about covid protocols, for instance, or election deniers. so this is something that you are going to see a lot of in the coming couple of years that the republicans have control of the house, and you're seeing a little preview of that from this lawsuit here in -- in louisiana. victor and alisyn? >> okay, evan. thank you very much for sharing your reporting with us. now to this. the edge of escalation. the u.s. defense secretary says it appears that missile that hit poland most likely came from ukraine's air defense system. >> but zelenskyy wants more information along with access to the scene where it happened. the latest when we come back.

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polish president duda discussed the missile that hit his country yesterday with cia director bill burns at a previously scheduled meeting in warsaw today. the incident set off diplomat ig alarm bells. this is the first time that russia's war has spilled over into a nato country. the president of poland now says that while it appears the missile was russian-made, the strike was actually an accident caused by ukrainian air defenses and he added, there are no indications it was an intentional attack. >> u.s. defense secretary lloyd austin says the pentagon has no reason to doubt poland's preliminary findings. >> we won't get ahead of -- of, you know, what the -- of the investigation, but, you know, our information supports what

president duda said earlier in his preliminary assessment. it was that this was most likely, most likely a result of a ukrainian air defense missile, but we'll let the investigation play out here. >> so at this point are you confident in saying that this was not a russian missile? >> we're going to let the investigation play out. >> cnn's senior international correspondent matthew chance is live at the scene there in poland. matthew, how soon could the poles have a definitive answer on this? >> reporter: well, in terms of when that investigation is going to be over, it's not clear. they haven't given us a time frame, but, you know, it could be several days from now before the investigation that's taking place on the ground could piece together exactly what happened, and that investigation is taking place about a couple of hundred of meters away from where i'm standing on this road. before that's concluded and they

could write their reports and give a definitive answer as to what actually happened, but the truth is, victor, they've already started sort of talking about what their initial assessments are, and today for instance, the polish prime minister said that they've gathered materials from the ground at the site of that explosion which has led them to believe that this was a ukrainian anti-aircraft missile attempting to -- which was fired to shoot down a russian rocket, and it's says that the missile had been successful in that attempt to shoot down a russian rocket. though it's not clear what evidence they have for that, but that would certainly tally with the context in which this explosion took place. remember, as it happened, as the missile came across here into poland, there was a barrage of russian missiles pounding targets in locations all across neighboring ukraine and of course, ukrainian air defenses were struggling to defend their

citizens from that -- that attack or those attacks, and so it's easy to see in that context how an overshoot by a ukrainian intercepter could have been the cause of this, you know, tragic incident. >> okay, matthew chance. thank you very much for being on the ground there for us. let's bring in major mike lyons. he was once responsible for certifying nato's operational readiness tests. thanks so much. being here. i thought it was comforting how quickly poland and nato moved to de-escalate this, to take sort of any -- some doubt out of, you know, whether it had come from, and just how quickly poland's president said, it looks like an accident to us, and so what did you hear from all of the responses? >> about the same. there was an initial emergency response you saw on social media, but cooler heads prevailed in call for article v, and it's not necessarily that

trip wire to go to world war iii, but bottom line is they had to get somebody to that crater analysis, and take a picture of the debris and see what was in there. those air systems are in depth, and they can sometimes chase a rocket as opposed to colliding with it. think about a bullet taking out a bullet in the sky and in this case there was a failure. there was still safety and failure that didn't hit the rocket and what goes up must come down. it landed just over the polish border and there was no military target to begin with. that's important too. >> the common defense, an attack on one is attack on all, but there was discussion of article iv. it says the parties will consult together whenever the opinion of any of them, the security of any of the parties is threatened here. the secretary general of nato says it will wait until after the investigation, but why not have those conversations now? why hold off on article iv?

>> i think in some ways the formality of getting 30 nations together is a logistical challenge and they're likely doing them back channel at this point. when they get together, they'll have a agenda of what to do politically as opposed to militarily. they can put more pressure on russia and its allies with regard to economic sanctions and the like and perhaps on the nonkinetic military side, they will move them closer to poland and into romania, and give them the wherewithal of looking inside ukraine. russians have retreated from kherson. on the other side dnipro river. they're looking for every way to stay warm for the next three or four months. we have to do what we can to support the ukraine.

en citizens because russia is attacking the infrastructure of ukraine. >> why do you think president zelenskyy wasn't on the same page of nato and the u.s. when it came to the snap decision of who was responsible? >> well, i mean, for all his good and his leadership we've seen, he sometimes is a ready, fire, aim guy, and that's kind of okay i guess when you're at war and you're fighting the russians and you're trying to survive every day, and sometimes, you know, there's two sides to every story, and greatest strength and greatest weakness type of thing, and i think he decided to go out that route to make it look like -- again, we're going to investigate everything. the united states is not going to get drawn into some conflict here or nato -- or the rest of nato for the rest of that matter is article 5 is ever invoked here. i think that's part of his personality. i think he has to be forgiven, given the fact he gets up every day and tries to survive. he's done courageous things and his military has done incredible feats that will go down in history. >> major mike lyons, thank you.

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newly released video is giving us a few new details about the beating of a black man by sheriff's deputies while he was in custody in camden county, georgia. i want to warn you that these videos we're about to show you are disturbing. that video released earlier shows what happened moments before that man was dragged out of the cell when he was beaten and dragged into the hallway. additional footage released today shows deputies patting each other on the back, calmly walking away. joining us now is jared hobbs' attorney, harry daniels. good to see you again.

let me start with how is your client doing? how's he doing? >> he's doing his best as can be expected. you know, he physically has healed from his injuries, but mentally he's not doing okay. you can imagine the type of beating he endured on september 3rd. he's day by day. i spoke with him today. he wants everybody to know that he appreciates the support that has been shown his way, and he also has this message that he did not know would help. he said people have mental health and stress when they come into the jail, they should not be subject to beatings and mistreatment the way he was treated. he just wants this -- hopes his case is awareness for so many others to see. >> let me ask you about this new

video you released. this is the first time we're getting audio with any of the videos. the others were inside the cell, and that's where we saw the beating, but beyond the audio, we saw them calmly walking away. what do you want people to take away from these new releases? >> well, they're complicit. this is a badge of courage, you know, of beating this guy. this is not the first time these officers here in this jail have committed these acts. they calmly went inside that jail cell and beat mr. hobbs and threw him against the wall. >> when you say this is not the first time -- when you say this is not the first time these deputies have done this, are you saying that because of what you read from body language or do you have evidence after the way they've treated your client?

>> we have evidence between deputies and other inmates. there's federal cases and litigations going on. we have evidence of coverups, affidavits from former jailers who have testified that the jail administration have made overt efforts to cover up beatings and use of force inside the jail. this is a systematic -- it's not just a bad apple. it's a bad orchard. it's none of this body language or speculation. >> your client was arrested in georgia for traffic violation, possession of a controlled substance and violated his probation. i mention that because in the court documents related to that violation, hobbs' parole officer who was not there in georgia at the time wrote this. the defendant resisted the jailers, subsequently punched one deputy in the face while punching another in the side of the head. the other sustained a broken hand and a bruised eye as a result of the incident.

i'm not reading this to skjusti what we saw, and this must be the reason they did that. >> i got you. >> i'm just trying to understand what was the action that started this because we don't have that. do you have video of that? >> so clearly mr. hobbs was banging on the door, using profanity and the reason why they came inside the jail cell. let's be clear, victor, that that was from camden county in charge of my client and obstruction of law enforcement. there was a point of violation he was going to be violated by the united states probation and attorneys office and they received a video. once they received the video, if you look further at north carolina court records, they dismissed those counts because once they receive the video, they knew these officers were not telling the truth. >> are you saying there is no

video -- there is no video of your client hitting these men as is written in this report from north carolina. is that what you are saying? >> that's correct. there is no video whatsoever. we have watched video of him being struck, and the only time any physical altercation took place is what the public have already seen. the video in its entirety shows mr. hobbs inside the cell that led up to him coming into the cell. that's a lie. the statements from the camden county was a lie. it's a lie. >> all right. harry daniels, thank you so much. listen to people watching at home, we had a little audio and video issue. typi typically we would put the video over it to hide it, but we don't want to continue to show that video and hear those screams. we showed you so thank you for

staying with us through those technical glitches. >> that was upsetting to listen to. former white house aide cassidy hutchinson is testifying in front of the georgia grand jury today. this is part of president trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. what she can offer this time. that's next.

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today in front of the georgia grand jury. this is part of the state's investigation into efforts by former president trump and his allies to overturn 2020 election results. hutchinson you'll remember previously talked to the justice department investigation and provided key insight on what she saw in the west wing leading up to and during the deadly riot. >> brian kemp testified before the grand jury yesterday. senator lindsey graham is scheduled to appear tomorrow. let's start with today. let's discuss with former u.s. attorney harry lipman. let's start with cassidy hutchinson. the fulton county case is about overturning the georgia results. how helpful can cassidy hutchinson be in that case? >> it strikes me, victor, that she can bury him or he's buried himself and she can administer the rest. we've got conversation on audio tape that raffensperger recorded

anticipating trump might lie saying, i've got to get 11,780 votes. what can he say about that? the only thing one can even imagine -- it shouldn't matter legally, but the only thing i can imagine is, i really thought i won. i didn't think i had bad intent about it. hutchinson has already testified that she heard trump say personally that he knew they had lost, and many other statements that she heard from meadows to that effect which should be admissible. you put together what he did and that evidence about state of mind, that alone it seems to me is pretty close to guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. >> we all remember her super compelling testimony we all watched in front of the january 6th committee. i don't suppose the jury can use that. she was under oath. why do they have to reinterview her about it all? >> she has to testify to the people who make the decision. you're right, alisyn.

if she said something different, they could say, do you remember, ms. hutchinson you said before, and could use it to impeach. the jury and the select grand jury are entitled, and trump is entitled that they hear from her directly, assess her credibility personally, and the like. so that's why she's testifying again, but we know what she is going to say, and she's a very credible witness. >> trump is now a candidate for the nomination heading into 2024. how does that impact -- >> i heard that. >> you heard that? how does that impact the half dozen plus civil cases going on? >> basically not at all. i have an op-ed i've written that talks about a wrinkle with the special counsel regulations within the department of justice, but essentially there is no entitlement for a candidate, even a -- well, for a candidate, let's leave aside a sitting president to not be prosecuted. it has happened, in fact, before not with a former president, but

everything with trump these days is unprecedented. the short answer is it avails him nothing. >> well, not sure that's what he thinks since he announced so early. >> i agree, yeah. >> there's always the political calculations. we have new cnn reporting that the fulton county d.a. is hitting a roadblock in terms of her election into those 12 fake l electors that tried to overturn the georgia results, biden's victory will? they're stonewalling apparently and refusing to comply with the subpoena. so this is new reporting. i don't know if you know about it yet, but now what? now what can she do? >> look. unlike the congress, a prosecutor, state or federal has real means to make people testify. we saw it just last week when the department of justice forced cash patow to testify by giving immunity. she can decide whether it makes sense to push hard, but if she

wants to push hard, she has tools. it used to be that congress did as well, but after the last several years of having people ignore them, that seems less likely. there are things she can do if she wants to. >> thank you. >> thank you. commit to hard core twitter -- i don't even know what that is. >> i don't either. i don't know if i want to know. >> or quit. that's an ultimatum from elon musk to twitter employees. the latest on his takeover. we'll have that for you ahead. national university is here to support all your “ands.” national univeversity. susupporting the whole you. the hiring process used to be the death of me. but with upwork... with upwork the hiring process is fast and flexible. beld... all that talent! ♪ this how we work now ♪ all across the country, people are working hard to build a better future.

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so, the new twitter ceo elon

musk issued an ultimatum to employees telling them to commit to being extremely hard core or leave. and there's a deadline. >> and now we are joined with the latest, donny, and i shutter to ask. >> good afternoon to you. listen, this is bizarre and it would be funny if people's livelihoods were not on the line for the thousands of people who still work at twitter. this is the email that was sent out late last night, and he said, going forward to great a better twitter 2.0, in an increa increasingly better twitter, we must be hard core, and this going to constitute a passing grade, so later he says, if you want to be part of the better twitter, click on the link

below, and if you don't, then you will receive a severance. and so he is saying, if you don't want to, then don't click the link. >> how many people clicked the link? >> we don't know yet, but from the people who are what we have been speaking to, and when you get an email like this from the top boss late in the night -- >> it is not seeming how you motivate a workforce on yes, no, maybe, on working hard core. >> and working extremely long hours. has he met the new generation? >> they have quit. >> and now, tell the company to fact checkers to stop checking donald trump now that he is a candidate. >> we got our hands on a memo

that says, on facebook, that says something that to fact-check, and politicians are exempt from that, and politicians who are not known to lie, and politicians and candidates, and since trump left office, and since he last left the office, he has been eligible to be fact-checked, and by the way, as soon as he announces in mar-a-lago, you cannot face check him, and he is kick off on facebook, and he may be as soon as january, but it excludes to everything that he says, so if there is a clip of him saying something false or if there is something false of truth social, and someone is going to post social, then you cannot fact check. >> this is so upside down,

because it should be that you should fact check them more. >> facebook's logic is that you should not. hard core. >> hard core. "the lead" with jake tapper starts after this very short break. you could even save e $652. thank you, liberty mutual. now, contestants ready? go! why? why? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ you love closing a deal. but hate managing your business from afar. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers qualityandidates matching your job description. and i'm going to tell you about exciting medicare advantage plans that can

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