to each and every one of you every day. having my son in the ups marine corps and my son-in-law as a lieutenant in the united states navy married to our daughter charlotte, was a source of great pride for us, but it also for me helped us always remember that we should deal with the men and women of our armed forces as though they were our own family because they are. i mean, when we came into office in 2017, i actually heard that the air force had grounded a third of their aircraft to use as spare parts to keep the other aircraft in the air. and i couldn't be more proud in those first two years of our administration that we enacted the largest increase in our national defense since the days of ronald reagan.

providing for the common defense is the first obligation of our national government and making sure the men and women of our armed forces have the resources they need to accomplish their mission and come home safe was our top priority. so i appreciate you mentioning my son and our family, including my son-in-law and their spouses. we couldn't be more proud of them and couldn't be more grateful for their services. we are in the service of all those of the armed forces of the united states. >> i want you to meet florence, a certified senior planner and republican from porter, indiana, who voted for the trump/pence ticket. >> it's an honor to meet you, sir. >> honor to meet you. >> i'm a hoosier and i've been on the mission since the ukraine

war. there are members in the congress who oppose providing additional support for ukraine, many in your own party and in indiana, such as senator mike brown. do you support additional support for ukraine. how do you handle opposing viewpoints for those in your own party and home state? >> thank you for your ministry in so many years. and even in these times of war the difference you're making in the lives of the people of ukraine. i've said from very early on it is absolutely essential that the united states of america and our western allies provide the people ukraine with the support they need to defend themselves and repel that unconscionable russia invasion. i've made it very clear that i believe that there's no room in the republican party for apologies to putin and we need

to stay the course and stand strongly with president zelenskyy and those courageous fighters who just this week their efforts witnessed the russian retreat from a city called kherson. they're making incredible progress but we can't lag in our commitment. i'm passionate about it because i've always believed in what we used to call the reagan doctrine, which is wherever there are free peepoples to fig communists, we'll give them the resources to fight them so we don't have to fight them. but it's a little more personal than that for us. karen and i were on a trip through the middle east in march of this year. we stopped on the way back in poland to thank relief workers in a christian organization called samaritan's spurs who were -- purse who were providing relief in those early days of that russian invasion. we were able to travel in ukraine that day, just a few

miles, but we came to a refugee center and i saw a sight i never thought i'd see with my own eyes, women of every age, children of every age with whatever were their earthly sp possessions on their back, all lined up and being processed to leave their home country and leave their men behind to fight against the russians. as a member of samaritan's purse said that day, he said i never thought we see those sights that weren't in black and white, because they harkened back to images from the second world war. as the leader of the free world, the united states of america needs to continue to stand strong with the people of ukraine until the russian army is repelled and the sovereignty of ukraine is restored.

>> i want you to meet andrea barber danceby from indiana. she's an independent who voted for president biden. >> hello. in the states that have reproductive freedom as an issue on their ballots, the majority of voters in all those states voted for preproductive freedom. shouldn't this freedom based on roe also continue? >> barbara, thank you. i represented madison county in congress for many years. >> andrea. >> it's nice to see you. you know, when i think about my public career and i write about it in my book, the cause of the sanctity of life has been at the very center of our calling, and

it really emanates out of my faith. i accepted christ my savior when i was a young man and when i opened the bible, i read versuses like before i formed you in the womb, i knew you. and i knew in that moment that the cause of life needed to be my cause. i was a champion for life when i was on the airwaves in anderson, indiana for years and then as your congressman and then as your governor and as vice president. i always believed that roe v. wade would be overturned. i just didn't know if it would be overturned in my lifetime. but thanks to three supreme court justices confirmed by our administration, the american people have been given a new beginning for life. in a very real sense the question of abortion, to your point, has been returned to the states and the american people, where it belongs.

and i think in that democratic process i -- it may take as long to restore the sanctity of life to the center of law in all 50 states as it did in roe v. wade. however many years i have left are for me and my house, we'll be standing for life but not just for the unborn. i think it's going to be incumbent upon states that enact pro-life protections to also demonstrate generosity and compassion to women facing crisis pregnancies, to support not just the unborn but newborns in new and in renewed ways. as i said at the close of my book, i truly do believe we have an opportunity to demonstrate not just a commitment to the sanctity of human life but a

commitment to come alongside and support those that are facing crisis pregnancies. and i'll look forward to being a part of that, bringing principle and compassion to that debate but because of the supreme court's decision, the debate is now returned to the american people. and i'll be a part of that in the cause of life. >> thanks, andrea. let's bring in pastor donnie willis from westchester, new york, he voted for the trump/pence ticket. >> you and mrs. pence have both had very successful careers while raising three kids. i'm a dad of three as well. what is one piece of advice you would offer the parents who are attempting to balance the priorities of serving others and spending time with their

families? >> well, pastor, thank you. thanks for your ministry and such a thoughtful question. and thanks for rightly assuming that karen would have a better answer to that question. she is -- my wife is a miracle worker. in the course of our public career, we've moved 18 times and served our state, served people of indiana, served the nation, and all along the way she's created a closeness in our family that continues to this day. we were on the phone with our daughter audrey before we came over to cnn tonight getting some last-month advice from her. in some of the momentous times i write about in my book, i can tell you we always turn to our kids in any decisions that we make. in the years ahead we'll hear our kids' counsel. my best advice to anyone that leads a busy life, which is true

of almost every american these days, is go home for dinner. i used to say that to members of congress. vote right and go home for dinner. because for me i never had -- i never had to have people encourage me to want to excel. i know i seem a little low key, but i'm actually a very competitive person, right? but it does take discipline to put your family first, and i would say to anyone here and anyone looking on, particularly in those years that your kids are home, there's maybe nothing more important than them knowing that mom or dad in their busy lives are going to shut the computer, set down the phone and sit down at dinner and just hear them out. i think that dinner table has been the source of incredible

strength in our family, and when we all gather for the first time in three years this coming christmas, because of deployments our son and our son-in-law were gone for much of the last several years, but we'll all be back together, we'll all be around that table. we'll be breaking bread, we'll be saying our prayers and my best advice is just go home for dinner. >> and my suggestion -- or my observation is they're going to have a big topic of conversation at that christmas dinner and we're going to talk about that w. when we come back we'll have more with former vice president mike pence after this break. but thanks to the right plan promisise from unitedhealthcare when we come back k we'll have more with former vice president mike pence after this break. ert to help guide her to the right plan with the right care team behind her. ♪ wow, uh-huh.♪ and for her, it's a medicare plan with the aarp name. i hope i can keep up! the right plan promise,

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welcome back with forrmer vice president mike pence. james. >> hi, james. >> mr. vice president, thank you for coming to new york. this morning nasa launched -- successfully launched the historic artemmis i. you lead the reestablishment of the space program. what do you think the role america should play in space in the coming decades and how should we continue bipartisan

support for our nation's great space program? >> james, thank you for the question. i tweeted about artemis i this morning. i want to thank my appreciation to nasa and all the companies that work with them to send that extraordinary rocket on a path around the moon, really setting the stage for sending the next man and the first woman to the moon in just a few short years. i appreciate you bringing it up because i'll never forget the day that president trump asked me if on the campaign that if we won the election would i want to lead the national space council as vice presidents had done in the past? now what he didn't know was that the only committee i ever asked to be on in congress was the nasa subcommittee. what he didn't know that karen and i had taken our kids when they were little to vacation to cape canaveral just to see the

rockets. i'll never forget just saying to him over the phone would i lead the space counsel? would i? and we went to work. and i would tell you it was bipartisan work because for the longest time we grounded the space shuttle and we were literally hitching a ride with the russians to get back to the international space station. and when we came in, we were determined to put america back in the league to get on to low earth orbit and working with nasa and working with the incredible space entrepreneurs in this country, we set into motion a process to do just that. i'm truly grateful that they've continued to stay on course to return americans to the moon. but i must tell you that day

that we were at kennedy space center, the president, karen and i were watching the day in 2020 in the midst of that pandemic when for the first time in ten years american astronauts returned from space on an american rocket on american soil. can you see the picture in my book. the president and i were standing very stoically but my wife had both fists in the air. look, america needs to lead in space, not just for the advantage, not just for our security but because we need to carry our values and the values of freedom into space and i have every confidence that we will. >> so you mentioned that your family's going to be together over christmas and i know that you have said that you're not going to make a decision about your career until after there's

some prayer and family huddling over christmas. you write in your book and i knew this already that in your west wing office you had portraits of four former vice presidents, john adams, thomas jefferson, theodore roosevelt and calvin coolidge. now, i can't help but observe that of those four vice presidents, all four went on to become president. so i know you're not going to announce your candidacy this evening, but do you think you would be a good president? >> well, that would be for others to say. let me just say when we gather back in indiana this coming christmas, we'll approach that decision the same way we've approached every decision over the last 20 years in public life. you know, my daughter, charlotte, still wrote the best book about our family. it's entitled "where you go,"

subtitled "life lessons from my father." she captured the story of how we made our decision to run for congress that third time, jake. as i mentioned, i lost those first two races. i write about the lessons learned in "so help me god." when the time came around, it was a difficult decision to decide whether or not to run to congress again. we had to sell our dream home, move our kids back to our hometown, spend all of our savings and risk it all again entering a campaign that we'd lost twice in the past, but karen and i and the kids all went out west. we like riding horses and we were at a ranch celebrating my 40th birthday and karen and i had gone back and forth over the decision. we were praying about it, we were talking through it, we were discussing it even with our younger kids about changes that may come in our lives, and as we stood on what was called chimney

rock in the teddy roosevelt national forresest, we looked d and saw these two red tail hawks and they were simply being lifted up on the airwave. they weren't moving their wings at all. and i looked at my wife and i just said, you know, those two hawks are us. and she looked at me and she said, well, then we should do it. but this time no flapping. just like those birds. charlotte tells that story in that wonderful book that she wrote, and for us, whatever decision we make it will be out of a sense of calling. it will be out of a sense of trying to discern whether it's a time that we can spread our wings again and, you know, let the lord and the american people take us wherever he wants us.

but more than anything else, we'll respond to the calling that we have in our lives. and i'll always be grateful. the opportunities i've had to serve the people of indiana and toer to serve all of you as your vice president. and i want to thank you all for that honor from the bottom of my heart. >> does karen want you to run for president? >> i'll let you ask her. >> thoughts? no comment. my last question for you, sir, is if you ran, do you think you could win? do you think you could beat donald trump and anyone else running? >> well, if we entered the race for president, i wouldn't be thinking so much about who i was running against but what i was running for. the bible says without a vision the people perish and i truly do believe that we spend too much time in politics talking about the other side and not talking

enough about what our vision is. and i believe that the success we had in the 2016 campaign was for all the contention in that campaign the american people still heard a commitment to rebuild the military, to secure the border, to cut taxes, roll back regulation, unleash american energy and appoint conservatives to the courts. and the rallies that i stood before are i always told people if you want a large rally, you send dronald trump, if you wanta small rally, send me. those policies will carry, whether we're the standard bearer or not. i think it will be whether we offer a compelling message to

the people. but also as i said at the top of this program, i think the american people are looking for leadership that can unite our country around our most timeless values and ideals and demonstrate the kind of civility and respect that americans show each other every day. so we'll take time at the end of the year. we'll give prayerful consideration to what we might have. but i promise you, jake, i'll keep you posted and we will stay in the fight for our values and do everything in our part to strengthen and serve the country we love, so help us god. >> mr. vice president, thanks so much for joining us. we want to thank our audience for being here, especially the ones who came all the way from indiana. thanks for your questions. "ac360" starts right now. [ applause ]

and welcome to a late edition of "360." joining us to talk about what you just heard, dana bash joins me, abby phillips and adviser to the former president david urban and conservative radio host eric eriksson. dana, i'm wondering what you made by the former vice president tonight. >> he's trying to walk the finest of fine lines, anderson, by distancing himself, criticizing the former president for what happened in the run up to and especially on january 6th, not just for the country but for him and his family personally but then embracing all of the policies that he believes will serve the country well from his perspective but more importantly for his political future will serve him well if he does in fact decide to run, even though he wouldn't go there quite yet with jake. so it's for those who are

looking for him to express his anger and not just say his anger, you're not going to get that from mike pence. it's just not who he is. for those looking for someone to embrace the former president for who he is, you also are not going to get that. the question is who is out there who he's going to appeal to? because when you talk about trump, they're very polarizing ideas. >> can you imagine what it would look like, mike pence with the former president? the pacing, the pauses, everything. >> to say it would be awkward is probably an understatement. if america is looking for -- if this still matters, if being a kind, decent, good human being still matters in national politics, then mike pence will be a contender, right? because what you just heard from jake tapper in the interview

there -- and listen, i applaud cnn for taking the whole thing and doing the town hall and for the vice president for showing up. i think it's important for americans to hear this. but, you know, he has a tough road to hoe. i disagree with one of the things he said at the end. politics is about animating the base and animating people. he said if you want a big crowd send donald trump, if you want a small crowd, send mike pence. i think mike pence is an incredibly good, decent, kind human being but it's going to be hard to fire up the base and animate them after four years of a trump administration. >> to dana's point about walking a fine line, i don't know if it's a razor's edge fine. does it please anybody? because he's not winning over people who like the former president necessarily and not really even castigating the

former president particularly hard that might bring him some support from people who have turned against the former president. >> i was struck by exactly the same thing, anderson. you know, i keep thinking back to when he was talking about after january 6th, talking to trump about what his former boss had put him through on that day and he basically went out of his way to say that he thought that trump was remorseful, provided really no evidence to suggest that but really leaned into this idea that trump really didn't mean it in some ways. and i thought that that was really emblematic of mike pence. i think for the people who love pence, it's perhaps a sign that he is a good and decent person, that he's forgiving, that he's a person of faith. but for folks that are looking for pence to express a statement of principles, even on something like that where he and his family were put in danger, where

his former boss was doing something that he described as reckless but other people have described as anti-democratic, he wouldn't even go there to sort of express broad statements of principle about why what trump did was wrong. and also even a little bit of outrage, i think. it's hard for him because i think that is generally -- i covered pence for the duration of the trump-pence presidency. this is generally who he is, but i think for the american public, it's going to hard for him to really gin up a lot of enthusiasm on either side of this divide within the republican party. >> i want to play the moment where vice president pence addressed what happened on january 6th. >> take a look at the video over here. that of course was the noose hanging outside the capitol that day and rioters were calling for your execution, chanting "hang

mike pence." almost two years later, is it still tough to see that and hear that? >> jake, it saddens me but that day it angered me. i must tell you when the secret service took us down to the loading dock accompanied by my wife and my daughter charlotte and our secret service detail, i was determined to stay at my post. i told the secret service that i was not leaving the capitol. i didn't want to give those people the sight of a 16-car motorcade speeding away from the capitol that day. but, frankly, when i saw those images and when i read a tweet that president trump issued, saying that i lacked courage in that moment, it angered me

greatly. but to be honest with you, i didn't have time for it. the president had decided in that moment to be a part of the problem. >> i'm wondering just what your takeaways of mike pence -- it's interesting sort of describing that from a distance without any emotion or actual feeling about it. >> well, to dana and abby's point, that's kind of who he is. he tries to be dispassionate. his pacing and story telling is very much who mike pence is. i did think it was interesting when jake pushed back on him and said you said the president became part of the problem but he was the problem, it took the vice president a little while to get to that and to move on to it. that's part of the problem he's going to have is people who like donald trump really like donald trump, not necessarily mike

pence. there are a lot of people out there, i was watching social media go through as the town hall was going on, people who were very upset with him for not being forceful. that's not who he is. he's not the iconoclass people expect in politics. he's a nice, humble, christian man. he's going to have to find some way to express some level of indignity about it for a lot of voters who are unhappy about it. >> we have this tape. let's play that. >> you just said that the president in that moment decided to be part of the problem and i have to say as somebody that had been reporting on it for the months leading up to january 6th, i don't think anything happened in that moment that was part of the problem. president trump had been campaigning in favor of the overturning of the election for

months and months and months. it wasn't in that moment that he was part of the problem, he was the problem. >> look, the people who rioted the capitol are responsible for what they did. as i said that day and i believed every day since, those people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. >> he never said trump led those insurrectionists there. pence was still not really denouncing trump. if that's the lane he's running in, i mean, is that a lane? >> it's hard to see that it's a lane. it's incredibly narrow, which was my takeaway when we started this, which is the people who really want him to show his anger, even -- and especially when what we're talking about in the short term is the republican

primary electorate, for those who are so angry about what happened and there are republican primary voters who are angry about what happened, he's not necessarily showing it. what he's trying to do is say i did all the good things in this trump administration when it comes to republican policies that you all support and i stood up when the you know what hit the fan and i prevented the constitution from being completely shredded. but again, when it comes down to culpability, which sounds to me is part of your question, anderson, he won't go there. of course the people who were at the capitol were responsible but they're not the only people responsible. it's the person in the white house for whom he worked, who fomented that and fed them lies and represented to incite what they did. >> david, you were on the set with us when van jones was talking about one of the things he believes the supporters of

donald trump believe in, is that they are part of a movement. it's not just they like the policies that donald trump is espousing, which mike pence espouses. they are part of something that's deeply connected to trump, that trump represents. mike pence is not a movement leader. that still seems to remain one of the former president's biggest advantages. >> you're exactly right, anderson. that's what i was alluding to. the vice president spoke about that at the end of the town hall there saying -- he kind of made fun of it and said if you want a big crowd, send the president, if you want a small crowd, send me. mike pence, what decent, kind, human being. not a guy who is going to fill a 10,000 seat stadium with people chanting "lock her up." that's not who he is.

you see the video of him being whisked down the stairs while you see shouts at the capitol of "hang mike pence," his wife and daughter, and i would have had some pretty strong words. i probably would have gotten in the car and gone back to the white house and gotten in a fist fight with the president. i'd be back there on the desk saying more than you let me down, mr. president. i think that's the issue. mike pence is a decent human being, great guy, i got to spend a lot of time with him. i think people want to see a little more fire, someone who is going to stand up and fight hard. that's what the allure of prum w president trump is and that's what the allure of mike desantis is. >> do you think mike pence can be the future of the republican party? >> it's hard to know but for all

the reasons mike described, it's hard. he in this moment has a bit of a choice. i think if we look at the results of the mid terms last week, there is a constituency in american politics for people who are not election deniers, who are espousing real policy and perhaps people who are willing to push back on those things. pence doesn't really want to be that person. he wants to be just distant enough from it that he can't be, you know, called an election denier but not so distant that he might be perceived as being more in the sort of liz cheney vein of the republican party, and it's just hard to see who that appeals to. you know, on the other hand, i do think that the one thing that ron desantis has that is working for him at the moment, though it remains to be seen whether it will work in an actual primary is that he's picking fights with the other party. pence won't do that either. it's just hard to see what the lane is.

i think this republican party of today frankly is not particularly all that interested in the nice guy who shows up at the party, and i think that pence is going to have to deal with that. >> we're going to leave it there, dana bash, abby phillip, erik eriksson, thank you. >> coming up, we're joined by retired army general and former military a attache to russia.

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secretary of defense austin today said the u.s. has seen nothing to contradict that the

cause of what happened was on ukraine. for russia's reaction to all this, we turn to fred pleitgen who joins us from moscow. what is the latest from the kremlin? >> the russians are trying to capitalize on all this. they're calling this a polish ukrainian plot and the provocation to try to draw this into a wider conflict between russia and nato. it's interesting because the spokesman for vladimir putin came out and praised president biden's early reaction to this. of course president biden had said that it did appear as though the missile fragments that landed in poland probably originated by ukraine and were not fired off by russia. the russians were saying that's

what they wanted to see. and europeans called it hysteria. they say it was clear this was a surface-to-air missile. and then the russians also laying into the ukrainians as well, again saying that they believe that the ukrainians and the pols are trying to draw the u.s. into the incident. >> the russians are still on the scene. >> they are. the polish president has said it does appear as though this was a tragic accident, that the ukrainians were trying to shoot down some sort of russian projectile that was at their from a from and there were massive strikes that took place,

but there are still a lot of questions open. did this interceptor hit a russian missile and then diverted to the poland or could there have been a russian projectile that was hit and part of that also landed on polish territory. a lot of things are unclear and a lot of things could still come out. >> the military task of militarily kicking the russians physically out of ukraine is a very difficult task, and it's not going to happen the next couple of weeks unless the russian army completely collapses, which is unlikely. the probability of that happening any time soon is not high militarily.

>> the usa attache to russia joins us. do you agree with general milley of the difficulty of the ukrainian army pushing the russian army out? >> it's going to be a hard fight. the ukrainians are going to fight. they have momentum. they sense if the russians are able to stop, set, reorganize, it will even be a harder fight. of course we've got winter coming. that works both for and against both sides. so, yes, it will be hard. the russians are falling back on what we call a little bit interior lines, closer to the supply routes. but winter for russian forces in ukraine will be harder, i believe, for them than the ukrainians because the ukrainians are fighting on their own ground and those russian

troops are going to be out there fig fighting, unpopular and really cold. >> the fighting will likely slow down in the winter, right? logistically the elements make it that much more difficult. >> that's right. the one point to make on that, though, that tracked vehicles and some wheels can really, really motor off the roads. the front extends now. a lot of the fighting has been sort of linear along what we call military, if you will, lines of operation. they can move faster now, what they call gentle mud. that period is passing but now you're going to get to winter. they will talk about russian prowess in the winter. ukrainians can fight in the winter, too. >> you think the winter affects russia more because ukraine is fighting on their own territory?

>> it's a major -- it's very important. same ground, world war ii, you had german and soviet forces fighting over villages and towns just to stay warm. we thought it was hard for the russians for their supply lines out in front of kyiv and elsewhere. it's going to get really hard for them, especially in the south where they still are extended -- no, it's going to be a tough fight, though, without a doubt. general, it's always a pleasure, appreciate it. >> pleasure's mine. >> coming up, new details on the investigation from law enforcement in the fatal stabbings of four university students as s they continue to search for a suspect. the latest next.

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we have new information tonight in the stabbing of four students. the students were found dead sunday in an off-campus home. the police chief revealing that two other roommates were home at the time of the killings. a suspect at this time. and that individual still out there. we cannot say that there is no threat to the community. >> tonight, with a killer on the loose, police in moscow idaho trying to calm a community on edge. shaken by the brutal killings of four young students. >> but the reality is, there is still a person out there who committed a horrible, horrible crime. so, i think we have to go back to there is a threat out there still. >> the student bodies were found inside this home across from the university of hydro campus sunday. police say two were at a party on campus, while two others

were at a downtown bar. all returned home sometime before 1:45 am. what happened after remains a mystery. >> the four were stabbed with a knife, but no weapon has been located at this time. >> there was no sign of forced entry into the residence. we're not 100 percent sir that the door was unlocked, there was no damage to anything in the door was still open. when we got there. >> the coroner describing a gruesome scene. >> there's quite a bit of blood in the apartment. and it's a pretty traumatic scene. to find four dead college students in a residence. >> the victims all members of greek life on campus appear to have been friends. pictured in this photo, posted by 21 year old kayleigh -- hours before their death. the caption, one lucky girl to be surrounded by these people every day. kayleigh was killed alongside 21 year old -- a junior majoring in marketing. 21-year-old madison --

a senior also majoring in marketing and 20 year old recreation sport in tourism management major, even -- the university president visibly shaken. >> first, my deepest condolences to the families. and friends of ethan, kayleigh, and madison. excuse me. their loss has been devastating and they were bright lights in our community. >> we're just trying to process it. it's not a call that you think you're going to have to speak with a funeral home director and the fbi and have it hit national news. >> the families, who should've been planning thanksgiving dinner, now, making funeral arrangements. well demanding answers and justice. >> lucy kavanaugh joins us now. or authority saying anything about a possible motive? the mayor raised one possibility, what's the latest? >> yeah, the police chief was

asked about comments made by the moscow mayor describing the killings as a crime of passion. the chief today refusing to speculate on any motives, saying authorities are continuing to investigate. there are times when investigators have to keep cards close to their chest. but students and families have expressed frustration with just how little they've heard from authorities, especially given that police today walked back previous is assurances that there was no threat to the community. the father of ethan issuing a statement saying, quote, there is a lack of information from the university and a local police which only fuels false rumors and innuendo in the press and social media. something that the chief actually alluded to today when he said he probably should've had this press conference earlier in the week. at the end of the day, anderson, someone brutally killed four people with a knife and that person has not been caught. the community still waiting for answers. anderson? >> lucy kavanaugh, appreciate it. the news continues, laura coates and cnn tonight right after a quick break. after a quick break.

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