well, the midterms are already in the rearview mirror. as many of americans leading politicians are now looking to the future. speaker nancy pelosi today announcing that she is stepping down from leadership, not congress, but leadership. hours after, the former vice president mike pence walked a pretty fine line what rebuking his former boss for january 6th. just days after the former president announced his third run for the white house. and tonight, former president obama speaking about the dangers featuring facing our democracy still. >> that progress makes democracy a whole lot more complicated. one thing, it is easier for

people to agree on stuff when the majority of people look the same. warship the same way. and share the same traditions. it is harder as society has become more diverse. and everybody is at the table. we are gonna have to figure out how to live together. or we will destroy each other. >> i want to bring in cnn politics reporter and editor at large, chris sale is, that ends in political commentators karen finney and kristen sultan anderson. i'm glad you are all here and thinking about this, without the tie, how relaxed of, you i love it. >> i, look, my mom may be watching. she may be asleep. i don't want to say she is watching. but my mom, every time i go on tv with a tie is like, did you forget your tie? did you?

i'm, like no, it's -- >> beautiful. i am a mom's side, forever. >> the tie is sitting in the green room. >> okay. >> by itself. >> okay, well, it's a perfect idea of the ties that bind, see what i did there. >> that's professional hosting. >> it was subtle. but what ties -- compare and contrast to say the style, per se, of president obama on these issues. and then what we heard on tuesday night from the former president, harkening back to the american carnage ask a speech. here's what he said, i want to talk with it afterwards. >> we were a free nation. but now we are a nation in decline. we are a failing nation. hundreds of thousands of pounds of deadly drugs, including very lethal fentanyl, are flooding across now open and totally porous southern border. the blood soaked streets of our once great cities are cesspools of violent crime, which are being watched all over the world as leadership of their countries explain that this is what america and democracy is really all about. how sad. united states has been embarrassed, humiliated, and weekend for all to see.

>> so, i mean, not the glass half full speech one usually expects about a candidate in any stretch of the imagination. but in some respects, that has been the strategy. the idea of grievance based politics. and all these heavy heavy hitters out there, from the pencils to the obamas to trump and so on. talking, what does it say to you, that this is the subject matter still? that's a future as it is tied to our nation in peril? >> i mean, it is stunning how completely out of touch he is

to the reality. and i think, you know, one of the things i took away from the election was that american democracy matters to people. freedom matters. our values are those core values that actually matter. it was just as bizarre as we have seen from donald trump. it's like he was in his own universe. however, as we know in our narrative, everything is horrible until he comes in to save the day. >> i was just thinking, to your point, backing, that is totally the island can fix that mentality. right? because, like what was fascinating, it wasn't just what he portrayed as, like, i, mean blood soaked streets? cesspools of violence? it wasn't just that he did that. it was that he was saying two years ago everything was perfect. i mean, that was the other piece. like, well, everything was perfect two years ago?

i remember writing down, i was watching it and taking notes. i wrote, everything got back in two years? a like, everything was perfect, it was a utopia when donald trump was president. but in the last 18 to 24 months, everything is not terrible. like, it is a weird message. >> the problem with a message like that is that there are a lot of voters out there and were not happy with the way things are going. but the slice of voters you are outright angry about the way things are going as a little smaller. this is actually a question in the exit polls, how do you feel about the way things are going in the country. angry, disappointed, et cetera. if you are angry, i think republicans won those voters by, like, a 57 -- it was enormous. but if you are in the i am not mad i am just disappointed sort of category, -- >> mothers all across the globe. >> i am not mad, i am just disappointed. i actually believe democrats won those voters. like, it was not, you would think if you are disappointed in the way things are going you would want to change the leadership. and, they those voters did not

vote in big numbers for republicans. so just if they are really mad, vote for me message. it is a limit to the number of -- >> that's a strong point you have, made especially because today you also heard, i wasn't seriously playing trump's speech on tuesday. it is a counter-to what president obama said today. and there was a moment where he talks about the idea of enticement. of trying to use that grievance. trying to capitalize on that anger as the only platform you have. here he is. >> one of the easiest ways to win votes of tap into people's growing sense of anxiety, fear, vertigo, their sense of loss, their resentment of change, and to tell them that their tradition and values, their very identities are under attack by outsiders. you had it all up? and you have got a recipe for backlash and polarization and the sort of toxic slash and burn anything goes politics that we have seen erupt just about everywhere. and it is dangerous. -- that recipe has made a lot of cakes, a lot of brownies to. and they didn't all vote for republicans s'more mad that women would not have control of their own bodies, and they are mad that anybody who take that away. some, like young people are mad about climate change. the point being that obama does so beautifully is to try to say,

i will just say that as a biracial person, and he is to that when you've grown up on both sides of the color lie you want to say to white folks a don't be afraid, i so that was the foreboding tone of the future, and there was what speaker pelosi said today when she was announcing-- talked about how he is with his way grandmother and she saw him, he saw her being afraid of some young black men coming towards them. and i think he has always been so eloquent at saying that there is more that unites us as human beings, as americans, and that divides us. and let's not fall for that. >> he talked about, use that word anxiety and it's really important. because back in 2016, i would, argue that americans were really frustrated. there was a lot of anxiety. and many voters said, i am just ready for blowing it all up. and that is how you wind up with donald trump as president. i don't think voters right now are in an i'm anxious and therefore i want to blow it all up kind of mode. and what we saw at the polls was actually voters making differentiating, you, know certain types of republicans from others. to kind of blow it all up folks didn't do as well at the ballot box. i think people are expressing missing's idea. not by saying that i want someone like donald trump, i want someone that is gonna throw bombs. but they are actually beginning to pivot away, a little bit, from that harsh polarization. >> and then that, point i want to play and sort of set this up >> he talked about, use that word anxiety and it's really important. because back in 2016, i would, argue that americans were

really frustrated. there was a lot of anxiety. and many voters said, i am just ready for blowing it all up. and that is how you wind up with donald trump as president. i don't think voters right now are in an i'm anxious and therefore i want to blow it all up kind of mode. and what we saw at the polls was actually voters making differentiating, you, know certain types of republicans from others. to kind of blow it all up folks didn't do as well at the ballot box. i think people are expressing missing's idea. not by saying that i want someone like donald trump, i want someone that is gonna throw bombs. but they are actually beginning to pivot away, a little bit, from that harsh polarization.

>> and then that, point i want to play and sort of set this up in this contrast happening. i always think this idea, if you know, the union going on. although, trump, pelosi, neither good nor yang. let's just have a kumbaya moment for a second. but trump points talks about this, point takes a little bit of a moment devoted to talk about the criticism and the loss of in the midterms. serious. >> much criticism is being placed on the fact that the republican party should have done better and frankly much of this flame is correct. but the citizens of our country have not yet realized the full extent and gravity of the pain our nation's going through. and the total effect of the suffering is just starting to

take hold. they don't quite feel it yet. but they will very soon. i have no doubt that by 2024 it will sadly be much worse and they will see much more clearly what happened and what is happening to our country. and the voting will be much different. here is what that contrast look like. with these elections, the people stood in the breach and repelled result on democracy. they resoundingly rejected violence and insurrection and in doing so gave proof through the night that our flag was still there. our children, babies born today will live into the next century, and our decisions will determine their future for generations to come. well we will have our disagreements on policy, we must remain fully committed to our shared, fundamental mission. to hold strong to our most treasured democratic ideals, dish errors the spark of divinity in each and every one of us and to always put our country first. >> chris, a different tone. >> oh my gosh, from two different planets. maybe it is because we are talking about barack obama, but i just wrote down hope, which obviously this is slogan. politics has been, at least as long as i remembered it and as long as i've studied it, about hope in the future.

things are going to get better. they may not be perfect now, you may be struggling, but they are going to get better. i do not know how you run a presidential campaign, again because i think christians points very important, different year, different mindset for the voters, again on streak of blood, steph fools of violence, he literally said and i wrote it down, america is failing. if that works again, it is so how we always considered campaigns, not even campaigns

general are running one. hope and vision for the future. think about obama, and pelosi what you just heard, even mike pence in the town hall last night versus that trump speech. i was and karen off camera that it is remarkable that that is his message. >> it is also the message of, it is somebody else's fault, and putting groups of people against each other. and guess what, we did it in 2016 because there is a lot of fear about change in this country and where do i fit in that change. but i hope that part of what we saw, what part of what we learned coming out of the trump years, and now in this past election is, i am tired of being divided. i am tired of fighting, i would rather talk when we come together, what is the hope, what is the future? i am tired of the past, i am tired of this fight. >> you mentioned vice president mike pence, there is a moment in the town hall when he was asked a question about a disillusioned republican voter who was talking about the idea that there is, listen to this. >> i come from a republican family, but i have lost faith in the republican party.

they seem to have leaned way to the far-right and i am a middle of the road sort of person, and i really hate the name-calling, and the demonizing that is going on and why should i have faith in the republicans to lead this country? >> when i had the chance to go to congress i try to live that out every day. as your governor and as vice president of the united states, and it is a deeply held belief of mine that democracy depends on heavy doses of civility. because as a practical matter i will tell you that if -- i've never seen a member of congress begrudge me my views and my values in a good vigorous debate. never prevented us from looking for ways to work together.

but when things become personal, as they have too often on both sides of the aisle, then it makes the possibility of finding common ground very difficult. >> i do not know if that was the most satisfying answer for the person ants getting the questions. one of the criticism of his responses last night was that it is pretty hard to say yes or no in washington d. c.. and yet, he talked about the more contextual notion that you just addressed, christian, i wonder what you make of that question invitational or as it relates to how the polls are reflecting? is there this idea of exhaustion with a lack of civility, is that something that is translating at the polls? >> when you ask voters what their number one issue is, republicans will say things like inflation and immigration, democrats will say things like abortion and climate change. but division and anxiety about that which is fundamentally broken in our country is something that you see pop-up among republicans and democrats. if there is anything that unites us it is anger and frustration that we are so divided. the challenge for republicans is that that voter who asked

that question, for every one of her that they lost, they did gain maybe one or half of voter that actually liked the more combative tone. they felt finally somebody's fighting for me. so the problem is can you find a candidate on the republican side who can bring her back, but bring -- and mike pence is a tough messenger for this, to. if you are someone like her, you are saying you serve this guy for four years. well he lobbed these insults et cetera. so he's not going to have that kind of'd i'm done with the gop group, at the same time hard-core republicans are looking at him and going to, you did not stay with donald trump on january six. so he is between a rock and a hard place that if he does have presidential ambitions, they are going to make him challenging to form them. >> how do you get out of it? >> civility is a tough message for mike pence to sell. not because mike pence is not a civil guy, he is. the contrast between mike pence and that all last night and donald trump's vast. but he literally stood behind donald trump for four years, like this.

>> he said in the town hall, and weather is satisfying or, not he talked about the idea he criticized in private. that he had these personal moments that he would talk about. >> go ahead karen, i'm sorry. >> sure, but now you are not the prize president to donald trump and you can say, i will make this message up -- on the spot. then i was doing my duty, i was as vice president but now let me tell you who i really am and what i really care about. and to say i do not want to see us continue to divide ourselves. the credibility, and your point, he does not have a lot of credibility. >> he is so stuck between a rock and a hard place. if you're pence and you are the governor of indiana you take it saying if trump loses, i was the presidential nominee, so now i can be the presidential nominee again. if trump wins i, suddenly you are the vice president and you think everything is marching in the right direction. maybe he does not run again in 2028. and then january 6th happens and then now you are trapped. to pro trump people, they will think that you're not trumpy enough, and then the people in the republican party who do not like trump think that you aided and abetted him about what you said in private. so it is a total no win.

>> i did a focus group for the new york times, it was right on the anniversary of january six of remove them but voters. many of people in this focus group, we publish all the transcript, they were not happy about what happened on january six. they said they turned on their tvs, i saw these images, they thought there are horrifying. but then when you specifically ask about mike pence, even some of the ones thought that everything on january 6th was regrettable, it would've been nice if he at least delay the certification. there are a lot of folks who are not the full on big lie, type folks, but nevertheless think -- even though many folks might say what he did was very brave, there are enough republicans who do not view it is bravery and that is going to be a. problem >> that's fascinating to think about and also condemned if you have done nothing, which is part of the issue here.

thank you so much guys, really important conversation. also first on cnn, the lead agent from the former president, donald trump's motorcade on january six. he was interviewed by the january six committee today. so what will that mean for donald trump's now third run to the white house?

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interviewed robert engel. you might remember that name, angle was the lead agent in the then president trump's motorcade on the day of the capitol attack. so what will all of this mean for trump's candidacy? let's bring in cnn legal analyst norm eisen and elliott williams. glad to see you both, always fun to talk to fellow lawyers about these issues in particular because look, first of all, he may have announced but it does not mean that anything actually stopped in terms of the outside investigations, the questions that were circulating. we show that graphic of all the different things that were out there still, you and i have talked about this and we want to begin here. i am always wondering about the money, who is paying for these legal bills? who is sorting the money here? >> laura, now that donald trump has announced his campaign will be able to foot these legal bills. if he had waited until after, say georgia dna in folding county, body willis had charged him, there might be an argument

that that was not related to the campaign. but since he went first, his campaign contributors can put him in the campaign, in his packed, the rnc had been paying. they will not pay anymore. he could actually be using his campaign as a funding mechanism to deal with his legal problems. >> and the rnc, as you mentioned, they have a policy that shows they cannot favor to and how candid. it is fascinating to think about that, the mechanism of how you could actually do it. but i'm really curious about this moment in terms of bobby engle. i want to remind the audience, do you remember this moment when cassidy hutchinson testified? it was that moment everyone was talking about about whether trump reach for a steering wheel in anger about not being able to go down to the capital. here is that moment, remember? >> the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab towards the

steering wheel. mr. engel grabbed his arm, said sir you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we are going back to the west wing, we are not going to the capital. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engle, and when mr. renata had recounted the story to me he motioned towards his clavicle. >> so elliott, this is still ongoing, this january six committee. with testimonies that say -- i wonder what you make of the potential, if bobby engle corroborates what she said, which was challenged if you are at the time, what impact do you think this would have on the investigation and obviously the forthcoming report? >> not a ton, laura. i've spent a bunch of time working for congress and then around congressman i was at the justice department, helping to protest one myself. my sense is that the committee is in cleanup mode, because as you said, there was a factual dispute over whether or not those altercation took place. now cassidy hutchinson gave that testimony, but there are some comments in the press that it did not happen. what they are doing, i think, by bringing him in is just clearing it up and seeing what they can put in a report that corroborates whether this altercation happened. now look, even if it did not,

if this is not the piece of evidence or piece of information that is going to make or break the january 6th committee's work, what is not in dispute is that number one, the former president was not happy with the election result and challenged it by going around the country with slates of fake electors. we know that for certain. whether he grabbed a guy's neck or shoulder, does not change the underlying heft of what might come from the report and certainly does not change the question of if anybody is going to be charged with a crime following based, on the report that they pushed. out >> bay speaking of charges, i wonder do you see the prospects, you've written a number of reports on these issues and i follow your work obviously and i am wondering do you think that there could be charges coming either from the doj or from bonnie willis, with the investigation at the state level in manhattan and beyond, do you see the prospect of these charges? because this is the perpetual billion dollar question from so many voters when they talk about the purported teflon don? >> laura, i think we are going to see, likely, a 12 punch. fulton county da will be charging for the fake electoral slates, the solution to a shun of electoral fraud. the election denial legit crimes of the 2020 election,

followed by today we had a big report out. a prosecution memo with just security at and why you. the mar-a-lago document mishandling issues, big federal exposure there. if anybody else in the country had taken even one of those classified, national security information documents with them from the white house, they would be subject to prosecution. donald trump took dozens. i think it is very likely, my coauthors agree, very likely that the doj is going to prosecute that. >> speaking of fulton county elliott, look on the screen here. you've got this problem is already testified in that particular probe we are talking about brian kemp, the governor of georgia and governor elect yet again, cassidy hutchison, and then familiar faces such as lindsey graham and michael flynn. do you think that this particular investigation, elliott, poses the biggest litigation or prosecutorial threat, and if not what does?

the mar-a-lago document mishandling issues, big federal exposure there. if anybody else in the country had taken even one of those classified, national security information documents with them from the white house, they would be subject to prosecution. donald trump took dozens. i think it is very likely, my coauthors agree, very likely that the doj is going to prosecute that. >> speaking of fulton county elliott, look on the screen here. you've got this problem is already testified in that particular probe we are talking about brian kemp, the governor of georgia and governor elect yet again, cassidy hutchison, and then familiar faces such as lindsey graham and michael flynn. do you think that this particular investigation, elliott, poses the biggest litigation or prosecutorial threat, and if not what does? >> that is an excellent question. it is clear they have gathered an enormous amount of evidence as norm laid out in his report

a few days ago. a big thing that is going to arise through this that we should all be prepared for is legal challenges from the president to being tried in georgia. number one, the first thing he could do is try to move it to federal court, saying that it does not belong in a fulton county courthouse. he can make the argument, as we have heard before, that he is immune to certain kinds of -- being the president, and first amendment issues and so on. we can dispute and disagree with this until we are blue in the face, but that has to be resolved by a court. i'm going back to my friend norms report, who makes the case that he will likely lose on some of these claims, and he might, but at the end of the

day they have to be litigated in court and frankly nowhere else. >> norm, this could be slow rolled right? you kick the can down the road, until there ain't no road. that might have been back to the future, one not mad max. doc saying that. do you think the kicking of the can down the road all this time, that could obviously pass the goodnight period of the january six committee. will this be resolved, we have six weeks to go until new congress begins? >> laura, i do not know if we are going back to the future or forward to the past with donald trump's delays strategy that we have seen so often. we are going to continue to see it. here is his dilemma. every day, there is going to be news because of these two investigations and the many others that are going on, that 12 punch in georgia and the federal document case. every day there is going to be news about subpoenas being served, witnesses testifying, witnesses not testifying, if there are charges, if elliott's rise there is a georgia case and it is removed. that will make a news. i do not think what the political challenges that donald trump already has, the failure of his election denial movement, his chosen candidates

failing, that is going to be another anvil around his neck, this criminality. -- >> i have to disagree with you. that assumes that either the president or the supporters of the president actually regard being charged with a crime, or being investigated by frankly democratic elected officials as a bad thing. it could be motivating or animating for the presidents supporters. i am not convinced, necessarily, i hear you and that's the way it should be, but there might be a motivating element to some of this to. >> gentlemen, there was a time in all of our laws when being investigated by the doj would not have been a badge of honor, but i am not getting any younger so we will see what happens next about these issues. thank you so much, we'll leave it for another day because there will be more days of these very conversations. thank you gentlemen. speaking of longer days for

some, a mass exodus seems to be underway at twitter and elon musk is responding. he is closing offices, he is blocking employ access, yes you are experiencing déjà vu. and if you went by starbucks today, i drove by one in minnesota earlier today when i was in st. paul, i saw workers who are striking right outside. you may have seen them in your area as well. we will talk about all this, next. amazing. jerry, you've got to see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks it gets a little old. [golf ball bounces off rover] [ding] ugh. before we begin, i'd like to thank our sponsor, liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need.

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do not want to commit to extremely hard-core, whatever that means, work ultimatum. remember the deadline was 5 pm today. some 2000 starbucks employees staged a one day strike at more than 100 stores nationwide. protesting the company's approach to union contract negotiations. so it is all of this tell us about what workers are expecting from their jobs right now? back with me chris, karen finney, and chris anderson. let me start with you chris, put into context, in a world where we have relied so heavily on social media when it comes to politics and news, the fact that it is in turmoil, it is not like a dismissed story. it is really top of mind for a reason. >> it is central to how i do my job. i will say that. i use it as a news feed. i, maybe dumb, lee never thought of it just disappearing suddenly because it is not as big as facebook, i get that, but it is still a big company. >> we call that matter now.

>> right, i should've worn my tie. i laughed a little bit in your intro, and i thought to myself, it really is not a laughing matter. you are talking about half of the staff losing their jobs when he takes over, and in whatever this is, the lockout, i do not want know what to call it, i just think it was -- if i did not know better i would wonder how the heck elon musk got so rich. he did not inherit this money, spacex, tesla, he disrupted the car industry. he has real accomplishments. it's not somebody whose dad with rage and now he's rich, but it does not seem to like someone who is a good businessman is running twitter with twitter's best interest at heart. the things that he is doing, you have to be extremely hard-core. what does that even mean? can you quantify what extremely hard-core means?

is that like eight to 8 pm work hours? >> that's for 7500 employees, the scope of this problem. and their families. >> it was written in a way that, if my boss sent that to me, i would be like peace out. it was not written in a way that says we value, we value the work that you do. it was all this talk about that you have to prove your excellence, but no measure of what that actually means. frankly, i feel like, it seems to me, that the only things to make sense is that this was part of the plan all along. to run twitter into the ground, declare bankruptcy for a reason i have -- nobody >> for 140 billion dollars. >> this seems like it is going to be studied in business schools for a long time as an example of a change in leadership going very badly, at least in the short term. maybe there is a plan, maybe

his vision to get rid of all the staff and let's start from scratch will build a bigger better twitter down the road, but this does seem like it is very ad hoc at the moment, which for a company as influential as twitter, is fascinating. if it goes away tomorrow, i gave up to enter for land a couple of years ago and it was refreshing -- >> did you stay? off >> of course not. twitter has served, as much as it can be a toxic wasteland, it has served a valuable purpose in that ten years ago, a little junior analysts like me, writing things about the republican party was losing young voters, twitter gave a chance for a nobody like me to get her stuff in front of big name people who take it seriously. so twitter can be a useful platform to get visibility, but it is not perfect. so if it goes away i will only be sort of sad. >> first of all, i am nobody. i love thinking about this, but think about where we are with this, and first of all, there is a luxury and be able to piece out.

in being able to say, take it or leave it, we'll leave it. there is also the idea here that we are talking about, we have grown accustomed in society that our feelings matter in business. this is a learned behavior where having your morale as employees is more important, if not as important as the bottom line. and i wonder if this re-version is what people are responding to. the idea that we have quiet quoting in our midst, not too long ago you had the cheryl sandberg lean in discussion, and now you have this weird period that we are in where you are saying we have to work hard and the bottom line is important. is it our societal binds on our back now? >> it is still a business that relies on people, that people have to engage with. that is the difference. it is different than building a car, or building a rocket where some of the types of deadlines and the products that you are creating is different.

this is the people dip is nice. >> as a starbucks, they are fighting for that unionization right now, we will see how all that unpacks. up next, new developments tonight in the shocking case of four students found stabbed to death in their home. a small college town that has not seen a murder since 2018. we are on the scene, after this. my name is joshua florence, and one thing i learned being a firefighter is plan ahead. you don't know what you're getting into, but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future

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new developments tonight on the devastating shooting at the university of virginia. the attorney general will review what led to sundays shooting of three football players and the wounding of two others. their faces are on the screen right now. a special counsel will look into how school officials assess the potential threat what that was posed by the 22 -year-old suspect and student before the killings. state videos will now be taking over the shooting that the geisha and the suspect faces three charges of second degree murder, and three counts of using a handgun in the commission of a held felony. elsa faces two counts of malicious wounding, each company did buy a firearm charge. he remains held without bond. his next hearing is next month. we are learning tonight that one of the two students seriously injured, running back michael hollins is no longer

intubated, and has been moved from the icu after surgeries. according to a family friend, he is doing better. another survivor was released from the hospital earlier this week. thank you all for watching, now before we go here is a look at the new cnn film gabby, giffords, won't back down. it takes viewers inside gifford's relentless fight to recover from the 2011 assassination attempt, and her new life is one of the most affected activists in the battle against violent gun violence today. it premiers sunday at 9 pm. here is a preview. >> all right ready? >> joining us now is representative gabrielle giffords. >> if an idea is a good idea, it is a good idea. >> congresswoman gifford was one of the targets of a mass shooting. >> she is beginning several months of rehab. >> give me two fingers, all right, give me five.

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