with downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy. a quick programming note before we go. this sunday night "360's" friend lisa ling is back with a new season of "this is life" right here on cnn. once again she'll take viewers on a journey around the country exploring communities that are often unknown or misunderstood. don't miss the debut of the final season of "this is life" sunday at 10:00 p.m. the news continues. so let's hand it over to kasie hunt and "cnn tonight." kasie. >> john, thank you so much. i am kasie hunt and this is "cnn tonight." the supreme court has once again

ruled against donald trump, clearing the way for a house panel to finally get a hold of his tax returns after years of battling for them. we're going to dig into what that could mean for the former president tonight. democrats will have just six weeks left to dig into any documents they receive before republicans take control of the house. but the specter of trump is still going to hang over the gop. there's his presidential campaign, the investigations into his conduct, and the behavior of his allies on capitol hill. gop leader kevin mccarthy is acting like the speaker in waiting. but now there is another hard no declaration against him. congressman ralph norman of south carolina is the latest republican who is threatening to vote against mccarthy for speaker on the house floor in january. that brings the number of possible no votes up to five. he joins matt gaetz, matt rosendale, andy biggs and bob good, who've all signaled they'll oppose mccarthy.

if current margins hold in the house races that are not yet called, mccarthy will only be able to afford to lose four votes. this presents quite a math problem and could lead to some serious drama on the house floor on january 3rd. mccarthy was at the mexican border today to make more promises and acting like he's a sure thing. >> in 42 days a united republican house takes control. we will use the power of the purse and the power of the subpoena. if secretary mayorkas does not resign, house republicans will investigate every order, every action, and every failure. we will do whatever it takes. >> becoming speaker tradition l. takes 218 vote. technically what you need is a majority of the lawmakers who are present on the house floor. if no candidate has a majority on the initial vote, the house goes to a second ballot and so on and so on. the last time a speaker election went to multiple ballots was way

back in 1923. nancy pelosi won re-election last year as speaker with 216 votes. it took john boehner back in 2015 216 votes. that was also what newt gingrich received in 1997. mccarthy's road, though, potentially quite a bit rockier. he's been preparing for this moment for years, carefully courting the freedom caucus group that made boehner's life so difficult that boehner up and resigned. and in recent weeks mccarthy has courted conspiracy theorists like marjorie taylor greene. remember what greene told "the new york times" last month about mccarthy. "i think that to be the best speaker of the house and to please the base he's going to give me a lot of power and a lot of leeway. and if he doesn't, they're going to be very unhappy about it." greene added that wasn't a threat but the reality that she and others like her are emboldened by the leverage that the narrow margin gives them over mccarthy. but.

but, but, but. you cannot beat someone with no one. and right now there doesn't seem to be an obvious alternative to mccarthy. or is there? let's put that to our first guest. congressman david joyce of ohio, chair of the republican governance committee. he just won re-election to a sixth house term. congressman, congratulations on your recent win. welcome to the show. thank you for being here. >> thank you. thank you very much for having me, kasie. >> so let's start off. does mccarthy, does kevin mccarthy have the votes to become speaker in january? >> kevin certainly deserves the opportunity to be the next speaker, and he was just recently elected as well as all of our leadership was by wide margins of folks throughout the conference. right now there's a few people holding out and they think there's some power in holding out or saying that they're going to hold out. but kevin deserves the opportunity to lead. he has done a great job of bringing us together, of having a uniform message on which we could all run, wanting to bring back the economy, to bring back

accountability to our government, to make our communities safe and secure and to take care of the fentanyl and those problems at the border. >> sure. >> and he's down there addressing that today. >> so if not mccarthy like these people on the far right of your conference are saying then who? >> they don't have a candidate. and they're just making noise. and i can appreciate that. because in a slim majority like we've got now, let's face it, everybody can do the same thing. but you know, what are they trying to hold out for? ralph norman, i heard him the other day ask kevin about, well, would you support the rsc budget? well, rsc's a small makeup of the whole conference. why would kevin ever commit to something like that? kevin's not going to commit to the hfc because he's also got republican governance group, he's got the problem solvers, he's got main street, he's got the republican -- >> what do you want from him? what do you as the republican governance conference, what do you want from him? >> good governance.

that's what we were elected for. we didn't come here to make a point. we came here to make a difference. we were duly elected by the people in our communities to go back there and fix the problems that exist. they're sick of the dysfunction that has continued on time and time again each year we've been -- this will now be my sixth term coming back. of not getting things done. we have to go back and fix the problems that are directly affecting the american people on a daily basis. >> so speaking of that, i'm glad you raised it because i can actually fill up the screen with the investigations that members of your party have announced. and i think we have a graphic that we can show everyone. i mean, these are all the topics that some of your colleagues have come out and said hey, we want to look into, we want this to be our focus. there has not been a -- at least we have not seen as yet a concerted effort around an agenda for house republicans. and the reality is government is divided. how do you expect to accomplish any of those things -- what are you going to be able to run on in two years in your own election when you've got other

members of your party focused on what we were just showing everyone? >> and that's a great point, kasie. but the thing is that we have to have a government that's transparent and we have to have a government that's accountable. and some of these things deserve the oversight committee, it's our duty to perform the oversight on these things. but what the overwhelming majority of americans -- look at the places these votes came from. new york, florida, california. not necessarily areas that are considered widely red or widely blue but areas where the people want to get things done. they're being affected directly every time they go to the pump. they put their trust in us and they deserve to have their trust honored by making sure we deliver for them and laying out an agenda that fixes the problems that are there or we won't hold this majority. >> do you think any of those investigations we just showed are a waste of time? let's start with the hunter biden investigation. is that a worthwhile use of republicans' time and energy when you take back the house? >> again, there should be certain things to be looked at. i have not looked at hunter biden's laptop.

as you know, i was a prosecutor for 25 years before i got here. it certainly would sound like there's some merit to looking into it. but i do think that we should spend -- and there's committees of oversight and judiciary that should take some time looking at those things and looking at whether or not there's an issue with the border and who's doing what. but the fact of the economy is we have to rein in the spending, the government spending, claw back the money that's out there and put it toward more beneficial uses that drive down the cost of living for americans, that take care of making us energy independent again, bringing down the cost of gas at the pump and doing the things that are necessary to make our communities safe and whole. and if we don't provide that we won't hold this majority. >> yeah. i mean, it's certainly -- i think we've seen examples of what you're talking about in the past. i guess my question is how do you implement what you are talking about, how do you push your party to do those things when the freedom caucus or -- i'm not even sure if that's the

right name anymore. the people with the biggest megaphones on the right. the marjorie taylor greens of the world seem to be able to exert the most control over the direction of the conference as a whole by honestly you could argue they're holding it hostage. >> well, you can argue that. but i think we have to get -- and i've told this to kevin on many occasions and i brought it up in front of our conference last week. you talk about all these things and they want to do a budget and create the appropriations bills. we'll deliver appropriations bills. that's not a problem. will we have the 218 votes to take them forward? and so it's time we start looking at what we can do and whether people are willing to do those things that are necessary to actually be effective and govern. and that's something we've heard a lot of noise about. but if we let committees actually do their work, democrats and republicans have their amendments, let those come from committees to the floor and then again have amendments that are jergermane to the bill -- >> all due respect, sir, i have heard that argument quite a bit. it is just simply not how

congress has been operating lately. perhaps we'll see a change. >> absolutely. it's been dysfunction. there's no doubt about it, kasie. you've covered us. you know there's dysfunction. we have to try to cure it. >> so speaking of this, i just want to ask you one quick question before i let you go. this is about marjorie taylor greene because just over a year ago seven of your members of the council of the republican governance group that you're a part of voted to strip marjorie taylor greene of her committee assignments. now it seems like she's going to get them back. how do you feel about her saying that there's a lot of power and a lot of leeway and how do you feel about your leadership threatening to strip democrats off the committee for far less than calling for essentially violence against their colleagues? >> i spoke up at the conference when they wanted to strip -- initially when they wanted to strip liz cheney from the conference chair for some of her comments and then they also wanted to take the committees away. look, i didn't know mrs. greene at that time from anyone else in the community but i did say that

where are the standards that we hold these people accountable? i didn't see any list of standards when i came here that said if you do these things or say these things we're going to strip you of your rights and the duties of your office. the people in your district elected you. and if they think you're not doing the job then they can take it away from you every two years. that's why i think kevin defrkz the job for two years -- >> should mccarthy then not move to strip these democrats of their committee assignments? swalwell, schiff, and ilhan omar? >> kevin as the leader can take those positions and i think he's got some details on why they make a good case on why perhaps swalwell and schiff deserve to come off but i'm not party to that discussion so i can tell you that as far as i'm concerned that we should give everybody an opportunity until they prove otherwise. >> congressman david joyce, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i really appreciate your time, sir. >> thanks for having me, kasie. >> we've got much more ahead on the supreme court's new ruling

to allow congress to see donald trump's tax returns. will democrats on the ways and means committee get a hold of them before republicans take hold of the house? that's next. the only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms and effortlessly responds to both of you. our smsmart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night.t. proven quality sleep. only from sleep number. [sfx: cards shuffling] this holiday, weathertech gift cards are perfect for people to pick exactly what they want. laser measuredloorliners that fit youvehicle precisely. ep your seats safe from messes with the child car seat protector sinkmat protects under your sink. there's even something for our furry friends with the pet feeding system. order the weathertech gift card instantly for the holidays at weathertech.com ♪ ♪ i've never been healthier. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone

and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. the holidays were awkward for romeo and juliet. but after saving big with amazon black friday... ...tragedy was avoided. ♪ shop legendary deals all across the country, people are working hard to build a better future. so we're hard at work, helping them achieve financial freedom. we're investing for our clients in the projects that power our economy. from the plains to the coasts, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive.

moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day, that's effective without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. plus, they felt fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema.

talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save.

you just heard from one republican congressman who says he's supporting kevin mccarthy for house speaker. but the republican leader still has a fight on his hands. there are currently five members of his party who say that they will oppose him at this juncture anyway. that of course if they're willing to stick to their guns could make or break his chances of getting his dream job. can he win them over or, shall we say, can he put so much pressure on the system that everybody caves and gives him what he wants? let's bring in cnn political commentator and democratic strategist paul begala. cnn contributor and managing editor for axios margaret taleb. and doug high. we were watching that interview with congressman joyce with some

interest. and doug, i have to say it gave me some flashbacks. you worked for eric cantor who of course was one of the first kind of signs that this is the way his loss, which obviously took so much of us -- >> thanks for the reminder. >> i'm sorry. i apologize. but it really was in some ways the canary in the coalmine for kind of the situation we now find ourselves in. so i'm just kind of curious what did you make of what he had to say and what's next for mccarthy? >> well, i think he highlighted where republicans want to go or at least the big large majority of republicans want to go, but you can't get there if you can't get to 218. and that's always been the challenge. you and margaret both would chase eric captor and john boehner and other members down the corridors in congress when we couldn't get to 218. you would ask us are you going to be able to get to 218 and we'd be very confident we would and then privately we don't know. this is the job that kevin has now. and he's dressing for the role by being at the border. he's talking the right way about

it right now. but he has to get to 218 and go back into his role not as being a leader but as being a whip. he's got to not just count the votes, he's got to find them and get them. >> but the conversation you come back to again and again is what's the alternative? and if you are the right flank of the republican party, like who's the alternative to kevin mccarthy? maybe steve scalise. but that's basically kevin mccarthy. maybe someone in the right flank. but look at david joyce and the other half a dozen or so -- the newly elected incoming republicans in biden plus districts. they're not going to embrace someone on the right flank. someone has to be in charge of the house of representatives. are democrats going to start trying to grab back moderate republicans and flip them? i mean, someone will have to be the house speaker. so the odds are still on mccarthy and the question is at what point does he stop being led and just try to assert his leadership? >> yeah, well, i mean that's the part -- and i don't know, paul, how well you've gotten to know

mccarthy in your years in this town. we used to have a lot more kind of crossover among the parties. >> not as well as -- like i knew gingrich much better and he hated me. >> mccarthy has never -- i mean, he is in my experience somebody who when you're in a private room with him will tell you what he thinks you want to hear. he's very good at that. that's part of why he's good at raising money. but he's not necessarily someone who sticks where you expect him -- where he says he'll stick. i mean, look what happened after january 6th. >> right. the reason he's on the border i think braying about investigating alejandro mayorkas, which i'll pause while everybody says who? and reaches for their google machine. they're going to have to focus on investigations for two reasons. it's the only thing that unites that fractious caucus, conference. and second, you have to do investigation when you can't do leng slaigs. nancy pelosi had about a five-seat margin. she passed the recovery act, a gun control big bill, the infrastructure bill, the pact act expanding health care for

veterans, the chips act expanding technology. the most consequential set of lem slaigs probably in a quarter century with a five-seat margin. will kevin mckarth yib able to pass anything? of course not. don't sit with him at thanksgiving because he won't be able to pass the gravy without marjorie taylor greene coming in and doing it for him. >> margaret, what's your assessment? >> i've got nothing to add to that. come on. drop the mike moment. >> there's a name that we haven't mentioned in all this. and that's donald trump. and obviously, if he decides to weigh in on this he's going to have enormous influence. and those hard nos may not be hard nos if donald trump or trump world and the trump orbit is going into kevin's office every day. you see capitol hill reporters tweeting of who just walked in, who just walked out. that can have a real role. >> it seems like marjorie taylor greene sort of got that message too because she has been saying out there publicly like -- or she was urging people to back mccarthy in the course of the leadership election. speaking of trump, can we talk about this tax return situation for a second? margaret, i'm curious what you think. this has been a years-long

fight. finally a court that was stacked by donald trump-appointed justices has -- actually, this is not the first time that they have rejected one of his appeals in a situation where he clearly was making a political appeal to them, whether it was around the raid down at mar-a-lago or around this. do you think this is ultimately going to have an impact? are we actually going to see the tax returns? we've talked so many times about oh yes, this time we're finally going to get to see donald trump's tax returns. and here we are 2022 and we've never seen them. >> you're asking all the right questions. this is the end of the road legally. the democrats in congress are now going to get these tax returns. they've got 41 days to do something with them. they've also had six years to plan for this moment. so like tiny violins, they should know what to do with it. the question is -- there are two questions. number one, are they going to be released publicly and number two, will there be any findings in those records that we have never heard of before? so much of this got leaked in bits and pieces.

i don't know what the impact is going to be. but i think as a matter of course, as a matter of precedent it is important that these courts are upholding the law. and the law is so clear. this is happening at a time, mind you, when now the republicans are about to assume the majority of the house they're about to get a taste of the medicine that democrats have lived with. we have a story out tonight talking with lawyers who represent private sector clients who go before congress for investigations. those lawyers telling us get ready, we are seeing record numbers of clients who want to fight back, at a minimum to negotiate subpoenas and request to appear but at a maximum who are just going to say no. >> you showed all the republican potential investigations. the only reason we're talking about these issues is because parties don't investigate themselves. we know about these tax returns, we may see them because democrats in the house majority investigated donald trump. this is part of the proper oversight. one other thing on the speaker's

vote. there will be drama that morning on january 2nd or january 3rd. when you have that vote and every member stands up one by one, they can vote for paul begala if they want to. they can vote for kasie hunt or margaret talev. >> would you like to be speaker of the house? >> they could vote for kanye if they want to. lord, don't. but there will be drama including members who when their name is called won't be seen in the the house chamber. it's happened before. >> can i suggest one other piece of drama? who believes trump's going to obey the supreme court? i don't. he'll just run out the clock and i it will start all over -- >> isn't it up to the treasury department? >> yeah, i suppose it's not up to him. the law doesn't say the american people have a right to see them. i wish we did but we don't. the congress has a right. frankly i -- they're private documents that the congress has a right to see but you and i don't. i want a law that requires everybody to release the way obama and reagan and clinton and everybody did but there's no such law right now. >> but i think congress can and

this ruling says congress can. whether they choose to or not is a different matter. but part of the reason why there's so much drama about this is it has long been precedent in the modern presidency for presidents to show the public -- >> normally we don't have to do this because people do the right thing. >> there ought to be -- >> other people do the right thing. >> there could be a law. there is a lame duck session. maybe there's not enough time for everything. but this could be actually -- >> there's not enough time for everything in a lame duck nor is there enough time for more of this in the segment. you guys stick around because we'll be coming back to you. coming up ahead, the developments on a mass shooting at an lgbtq nightclub in colorado springs. more information is emerging about the suspected shooter as new questions emerge over why previous charges against that person were dropped. next. go for a run. go for 10 runs! run a marathon. instead, start small. with nicorette.. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette. to tell you something?

the clues are all around us... not that one... that's the one. at university of phoenix, you could earn your master's degree in less than a year for under $11k. learn more at phoenix.edu power e*trade's easy-to-use tools like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis help make trading feel effortless and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! (limu squawks) he's a natural. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

folks, it looks like we're gonna have to land this big old bird

earlier than expected because it's the xfinity black friday sale. get the fastest mobile service with xfinity mobile. yeah, we'll be cruising in to get the best price for 2 lines of unlimited for just $30 each per month. oh my! plus, for a limited time, get 500 dollars off an eligible 5g phone. even you in 22c. flight attendants, prepare for big savings. drop everything and get to the xfinity black friday sale. click, call or visit a store today.

new details tonight in the colorado springs club shooting massacre. attorneys for the accused club q shooter say in a new court filing that the suspect identifies as non-binary and uses they/them pronouns. the public defender's office has declined all requests for comment on their representation of the suspect. that suspect will appear in court for the first time tomorrow after being released from the hospital and into sheriff's custody. this afternoon mourners gathered around a shrine outside of club

q to remember the five people who were killed. el paso county district attorney told cnn tonight that hate crime charges are still being considered in the attack at the lgbtq club. but he likely won't have a final decision this week. police still aren't giving any new details about a motive. joining me now is someone who knows colorado springs well. city council member and long-time resident nancy hengham. thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> you're welcome and happy to be here. thank you. >> i just wanted to start, councilwoman, by saying that we are so sorry about this tragedy that has befallen your community. how is the community holding up? and what have you heard from your neighbors and friends? >> well, it's everything you can imagine. fear and concern and anger and worry. as well as really honestly i think what i want you to know is the tremendous outpouring of love and support and action.

there's been tremendous action from our business leaders, from the police and fire, from the mayor, non-profits, faith leaders. there has just been a tremendous outpouring of support. and it's so much greater than the act of violence that was committed, this heinous act of violence that was committed by this one person. >> so the police are of course looking into what motivated this attack, although it sounds like it's going to be some time before we learn whether they will charge this as a hate crime. what do you think motivated it? >> i have no way of knowing. i just know that it caused tremendous loss and continued fear among people who are lgbtq in our community and really quite frankly anywhere people go in the country. so it's created fear. and i have no way of knowing what this person's motivations were. i want them to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law,

however. >> of course. so colorado springs is a mostly conservative city, or largely cove city, with a history in some corners of lgbtq -- anti-lgbtq activism. it's home, for example, to the family research institute that has been designated an anti-lgbtq hate group. what is -- what are you and other leaders doing to try and reassure members of the colorado springs community that they're safe there? >> well, we're taking action. we are showing our support not just through, you know, making comments of love and support and prayers, but we're taking action. so for example, we received -- there was an outreach to us by the head of the sea to sea flag project, the sacred flag project. and they offered in solidarity and support to our community

this very precious flag that has flown at the pulse nightclub, it's flown at the white house, it's flown at the supreme court, and this very precious flag has been offered to our city and i'm very proud to say that tomorrow morning at 10:00 on our city hall we will be raising that flag on our building and we will be demonstrating. we will have police representation, fire representation. the mayor will be present. city elected officials. the lgbtq community. and its allies. and people will be speaking and we will be showing our commitment and our support. and what i can tell you that i heard this morning at city hall and city council meeting is people will not be moved. nobody is going back in any closets and we are moving forward and we will continue to be a love -- a city of love and the history that you mentioned

is getting smaller and smaller and in our rearview mirror and we are moving forward. >> all right. we certainly will be watching that tomorrow. let me ask you about the gun piece of this question. the suspect was arrested back in june of 2021 for threatening to cause harm with a homemade bomb, multiple weapons and ammunition. but ultimately the charges were dropped. and this person was able to buy a gun. do the red flag flaws in colorado go far enough? are they effective if people like this can slip through the cracks, and should law enforcement officials who were dealing with this the first time, they could have taken further steps including the el paso county sheriff could have taken more steps once the family decided to drop charges here. should that have happened? >> look, if the red flag laws were to work as they're supposed to, they clearly haven't. and so we need to do more with that. and i understand that governor

polis is looking into that. so if they were supposed to work the way they were supposed to, it didn't happen. but governor polis i'm sure will be working on that and more needs to be done there. >> all right. council member nancy henjum, thank you very much for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. >> thank you, kasie. i appreciate you giving time to colorado springs. >> of course. and another blow to the american economy could be just weeks away. the threat of a freight rail strike is back, and with it the possibility of new price hikes and more supply shortages. a key player in this drama joins us with where things stand after a critical meeting today and why the issue isn't actually about paychecks. that's next. ts amazing c camera at t-mobile. wow! at t-mobile, get four iphone 14's's on us and four new lines for $25 bucks a line. among my patients, i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual actioeffect

that really takes care& gum of botour teeth sensitivity asell as our gum issues. there's no queion it's something that i would recommend. my name is joshua florence, and one thing i learned being a firefighter is plan ahead. you don't know what you're getting into, but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody.

[ coughing/sneezing ] dude, you coming? alka-seltzer plus powermax gels with more concentrated power. because the only thing dripping should be your style! plop plop fizz fizz with alka-seltzer plus. also try for fast sinus and pain relief! blendjet■s black friday sale is on now. save up to 25% on the number one gift this holiday season. blendjet 2 portable blender gives you ice-crushing, big blender power on-the-go. throw in your favorite ingredients and blend up a delicious smoothie anytime, anywhere. blendjet 2 even cleans itself. just add water, a drop of soap, and blend. recharge quickly with any usb port. order now from blendjet.com and get our best deal ever!

an economically crippling rail strike could hit the u.s. just two weeks from now. of course right in the middle, at the height of the holiday season. leaders of four railroad unions and the major eight lines sat down for a new round of negotiations today. and there's been a lot of scary talk about what will happen if we see the first major rail strike in this country in 30 years. some estimates say it could mean a $2 billion per day hit to the economy. but what would it mean to most of us? even higher prices on groceries at a time when food prices are

up already almost 11% over the last year. and holiday travel likely to become a mess given that nearly all of amtrak's long-distance trains use freight tracks. and all those presents that you're ordering online or trying to find in stores, probably delayed since no option exists that can handle the 30% of goods that are shipped on trains nationwide. legally, president biden is out of options to force a deal, but congress could force the trains to keep moving even if the terms are worse than what the unions have turned down already. jeremy ferguson is the president of one of the four key unions who is involved in the talks. sir, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> good evening, kasie, thank you for having me. >> so yesterday your 20,000 workers rejected this deal that had been announced earlier in the year. how did today's talks go? >> well, i think we were off to a decent start. we had a lot of issues we had to put on the table to begin the

discussions. so we will follow up again tomorrow and see where that leads us. >> so how likely do you think it is that your members are going to strike, even if it's only for a short time? >> well, i think it's about a 50-50 right now. we're going to continue working as hard as we can to get them the right agreement that would ratify. they have a lot of issues. they have spoken. and i've got to do my due diligence and get in there and keep those negotiations moving. >> so that tentative deal was brokered back in september and the sticking points of sick time and quality of life were key issues back then but seem to have been resolved once the biden administration got involved. i mean, what changed between then and now? >> well, we made a lot of inroads on those attendance policy issues. that was a big hang-up. and then we have basically a

two-step process in this tentative agreement, meaning there's a second round of negotiations that would take place on the property of each individual railroad to get into effect the rest days, to give those people the adequate time off that they need. now, there's a number of other issues, but talking to the membership, this wasn't necessarily just a referendum vote on the agreement but it was also a referendum vote against their employers. it's been a long haul. it's been 3 1/2 years without a wage increase working through the pandemic, being central employees, keeping america moving. and they are just tired. they're overworked. the railroads have cut to the bone and they wanted to just have their voice heard that they're fed up. so that's where we're at right now. >> i mean, i'm glad you underscored that they were essential workers through the pandemic because all of us that continued to buy groceries through a very difficult time owe them as much as we do the grocery workers that we actually saw every day for that ability.

so you know, our thanks do go out to them. in terms of expressing that anger, it sounds to me -- do you think that they feel like they have to go as far as actually striking to demonstrate the level of the anger that they have? >> well, i would -- i feel their pain. and yes, they do feel they have to go that far. it's nothing against the american people or the economy, the supply chain or anything like that. it is just mainly voicing their frustrations with their employers. >> okay. you've said that you do expect congress to intervene, though. how worried are you that the deal that congress may insist on will actually end up being worse for these workers than what was agreed to in september? >> that is always a big fear of ours, that we could fwind up ina worse position. but congress has consistently intervened in the past. it's been a long time for our

union at the national freight level. but historically, they have to keep the commerce moving. but we will see where this takes us and we will do our best to make sure if congress is going to intervene that they give us the best deal possible and not harm the employees. >> in terms of timing, how concerned are you with -- it sounds like this would happen imminently. so democrats would still be in control of the house. is there any world where you're concerned that, you know, it turns over to republicans and quite frankly you get a worse deal? >> we've played out every scenario and every one of those gives us great concern. yes, i would like to get a deal done here before we get to the end of the cooling off period so we don't have to worry about it. but it's going to be a tough haul. so we're just going to have to, you know, stay at it and do our best here. >> yeah. you said on cnn this morning,

just one final question for you, that there have been, quote, limited, very limited discussions with the biden administration. but the white house is out there saying that the president is, quote, directly involved in negotiations. i mean, have you heard from the president himself? >> i have not heard from the president himself. i've been in this a very short duration, obviously just about 36 hours. and when we went back to the table this afternoon. but i am sure he's working on things behind the scenes. possibly talking to the railroads, the negotiators for the railroads. they have not voiced that to me. but i'm sure this is going to pick up a lot of speed here in the next few days. i'm sure we'll all be conversing on this. >> well, it sounds like you've got a pretty stressful thanksgiving holiday ahead of you. so we will let you go with our thanks, jeremy ferguson, for being with us tonight. >> well, thank you, kasie, and have a good evening. >> thank you. you as well. question for all of you out

there. who is the most dangerous person in the world? whatever your answer, i want you to see which name comes to mind for a prominent republican who might run for president. the answer could leave you wondering if there's really no limit to the culture wars. when "cnn tonight" returns. we're providing greater access to investing, with low-cost options to help maximimize savings. from the plains toto the coast, we help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin.

despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day, that's effective without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. plus, they felt fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save.

the day you get your clearchoice dental implants makes every day... a "let's dig in" day... mm. ...a "chow down" day... a "take a big bite" day... a "perfectly delicious" day... - mm. [ chuckles ] - ...a "love my new teeth" day. because your clearchoice day is the day everything is back on the menu. a clearchoice day changes every day. schedule a free consultation.

so former secretary of state mike pompeo was asked who's the most dangerous person in the world. remember, he used to be secretary of state, head of the cia. who do you think he named? let's take a guess. was it north korean dictator kim jong un who once threatened to attack guam and, you know, tests missiles a lot? or was it china's communist leader xi jinping whose country is accused of cyberattacks on the united states? what about russia's vladimir putin, who recently invaded ukraine? or ayatollah khameini in iran? give up? well, here's his actual answer. the most dangerous person in the world according to mike pompeo is randi weingarten. it's not a close call, he says. it would be the teachers unions and the filth that they're teaching our kids. okay.

randi weingarten. she is of course the president of the american federation of teachers. weingarten fired back with this tweet. "i know that mike pompeo is running for president and frankly i don't know whether to characterize his characterization of me as ridiculous or dangerous." let's discuss. back with me now, paul begala, margaret talev and doug heye. doug, you're a republican. this does seem like -- look, i get it. this is an issue with the republican base, randi weingarten has become a villain over covid and many other things in our kids' schools. but it does seem a bit of a bridge for somebody who actually like actually knows things about kim jong un and the things he's trying to do to the united states that none of us -- if >> let me tell you how republican communications won one goes now. it's not how he used to be. you find it easy target. randi weingarten is and very easy target for a lot of the reasons. but no one did more to elect glenn youngkin in virginia and then randi weingarten. so you have that political point. but you find an easy target. you make unintentionally over

the top attack. and then you sit back and just watch the left spin itself up and spin itself up. and that is exactly what pompeo did and he knew what he was doing. you know, some many of these candidates who might run might not run, depending on the, polls are trying to emulate donald trump. donald trump created the right enemies better than anyone we've seen in american politics in a generation, if not longer. and that is what mike pompeo is doing. and if it works, is it really cynical? >> well, yes, and what it also is a stupid. mike pompeo's first in his class at west point. one the greatest universities in the world. mechanical engineer, bachelors of science, why we see something stupid? he is it because he wants to own the libs? i don't think that's it. every time he says it he's telling his voters, republican primary voters, that you think that they are done, that they will fall from this nonsense because they're stupid. i don't think they are. mike pompeo, genius, believes his voters are so stupid that the -- nice lady who spent her career trying to teach kids. >> nice lady? >> every vaccination, possible

but you can't open up the schools, even though the -- every man. again >> he's betting on the stupidity of the republican primary voters. >> no single person -- more for glenn youngkin, and randi weingarten. the whole school revolution is randi weingarten. >> just a reality check, for a second. >> please, let's do. it >> humanize this. person you can be against teachers unions, or you can think they torque too far towards thinking about, you know, social issues and not enough towards math and science or whatever it is. this is a 64 year old woman, a jewish woman from new york. her father was an engineer. her mother was a teacher. she was a teacher for a while. she was a lawyer. she was active in labor unions. she believes in the cause. if you matter, you would not think that she was a terrorist for a dictator or any -- >> i think we ever picture we can put off. >> it's silly, but it is strategic. and her own question about whether it was ridiculous. what did she say, ridiculous or

dangerous. the problem is in the moment we are in, it is kind of both. because you don't -- if you are a leader who is trying to motivate your base, and your base actually thinks that this is the most dangerous person in the world, this could jump from rhetoric to -- >> end the era of attacks against pelosi -- >> i understand your point, but i thank you miss. it it's her as the foil, so she can watch the last -- >> i totally get, it and i think it's true. but everyone has a responsibility. >> of course, of course. >> whether you're a journalist, or a pundit, or a strategist. generation six was like a second ago. did we all learn nothing from this? >> it's a character test for mr. pompeo. he's fail. that it's a iq test for republican primary voters. i am guessing that they will pass. it >> paul, let me push back on that her second. because i think one of the main criticisms of the teachers unions, to go back to how it's viewed and illegitimate

nonviolent, like, over the top rhetoric sort away, it that these people treated them at the time like they were stupid. and teachers unions were telling them that they didn't have a right to, you know, asked that their kids be back in school. there is very real data out there that shows damage was done, especially to the lowest income neediest kids who weren't allowed to go back to the classrooms. and that's the argument. >> you can have a good argument about teachers unions. i love randi weingarten, she's a friend of mine. but if you jump to the conclusion that she is the most heiress person on earth, i feel really stupid. i'm sorry, if you believe that your stupid, mike pompeo thinks are stupid republican, voters, i don't. >> i wager that mike pompeo does not actually believe that she's more dangerous than vladimir putin. >> she's a liar? >> while, if you wanna go down that road, we can. there is a lot of exaggeration in politics. i've worked for people who've done it. you work for people who have done. it, yad vashem some pretty crazy statements lemonade. and again, when i said republican communications one-on-one, i was not praising it. i thought we used to do it a little more strategically. >> you are saying that this is

how we're going to see. and when the other things that we saw today is this ad. herschel walker is up there with a transgender swimmer, or sorry, a woman who lost or tied with a transgender woman who was swimming against her. with the idea of drawing the trans argument into this culture war. you are saying that what we're going to see is a bottom line cynical attempt to use these issues to anger liberals in a way that will get republicans excited about voting for them? >> and the primaries, yes. this is part of how they make noise and news and raise money. i saw that out on saturday. as watching the north carolina and georgia tech football came. so it came on tv. and look, i rather that hurt will be talking about inflation and the economy and those things that he needs to do to really win in georgia. i don't think this is the argument that gets him there. but he's running from behind. so, he's trying to use different tactics.

>> paul? >> there's 580,000 college athletes in america. 50 are trans. it's not a problem. by the way, georgia has already banned it. what walker is doing is revealing himself as a bully. the kind of bully who's been accused of holding a gun to his wife's head and accused of trying to coerce a woman who got pregnant was not his wife to have an abortion. he is a bully. and i don't think georgia is gonna fall for it. i think reverend warnock showed a very different kind of leadership, the sort of leadership out of the pulpit of any baptist church. my money is on. we're not >> well, it sounds like we are all in for a new season of more nasty attacks. you know, what we're heading into thanksgiving week. i feel like we should just leave it there. [laughter] talk about it -- yes, we're not going to iowa yet. people paula gala, margaret talev, thank you very much for being with us. we'll be right back. ized plan for cash flow, even when yoyou're not workin. a plan that includes all your accounts so you canan enjoy whatever comes next. that's the planning effefect.

from fidelity. how many rooms are in there? should we go check it out? yeah. we get to stay here all weekend! when you stay at a vrbo... i call doing the door code! ...the host doesn't stay with you. it looks exactly like the picture. because without privacy in your vacation home... it's a full log cabin guys. ...it isn't really a vacation... we can snuggle up by the fire. ...is it? wow, oh my- [birds chirping] nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: just stop. go for a run. go for 10 runs! run a marathon. instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big.

start stopping with nicorette. to tell you something? the clues are all around us... not that one... that's the one. at university of phoenix, you could earn your master's degree in less than a year for under $11k. learn more at phoenix.edu i'd like to thank our sponsor liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. introducing the new sleep number climate360 smart bed. the only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms and effortlessly responds to both of you. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. proven quality sleep. only from sleep number. with the new law, our family found a healthplan for less than $57 a month and knowing that we are covered, it simplifies life. with my plan for $0 a month, i know i can get the care i need to live my best life.

they were able to make sure that i was taken care of. it was really life changing to have that. and i only pay $16 a month for the first time in my life, i found a great plan for $0 a month. healthcare.gov is here for millions like you. as a business owner, your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. ™

>> thanks so much for watching. i'll be back here tomorrow night. i hope you will be to. our coverage continues now with alison camerota. >> oh, i'll be back here tomorrow night. great show.