tv CNN Tonight CNN November 29, 2022 11:00pm-12:00am PST
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team usa is christian pulisic scoring the winning goal but not without suffering an abdominal lately. learning later he's suffering from appellate contusion. it didn't look now at their rowdy welcome home and a return to their hotel tonight. now, the u.s. will go on to face the netherlands this saturday at 10 am eastern. so be sure to tune in for that. i want to bring in now cnn sports analyst christine brennan. also cnn's tom foreman, don riddell, cnn host of world sport, and contributing contributor carrie champion. what a lineup to talk about. this important moment. i'm sure you were all watching. i don't know what snacks you had of the time we'll talk about that a different segment. i have to say watching all these things happening, i mean, this was a win or go home game right now. and it was an important moment that has been more than just about the match itself, christine. thinking about where things stand. because people were tuning in in large part because of what
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was happening back in the different countries about the removal of that islamic regime emblem in the flag. this was a very significant moment internationally, don't you think? >> oh, without a doubt. and keep in mind, the u.s. men's national soccer team, laura, is the team that actually willingly gave up prize money so the women, the u.s. women's national team, obviously, incredibly success ful team, could actually have equal pay. >> explain more about what that title ix means. they're going to split it now? >> the 13 million that is now guaranteed because of the u.s. men moving into the round of 16, it is split 6. 5 million for the men, 6. 5 million for the women. that is extraordinary. no other nation is doing that. these are title ix males who are not like, there weren't raised like their dad and grandfather's. and they have a much different outlook.
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not only about women's equality in terms of pay, but these are the same men who've been talking about standing with the iranian protesters. obviously the emblem issue with u.s. soccer. u.s. soccer and the men's national team i think have really distinguish themselves, obviously on the field of play as we see today, but i think even more so in terms of our culture and the stands they have taken and will continue to take as the tournament goes on. >> you know, tom, on that very point about the idea of where things are and just that title ix notion that christine has raised. that is just really significant to think about what that really means. and what a moment that is for the world to see and be aware of, given the domestic situation back in iran. >> absolutely, these games are often symbolic of a geopolitical situation. in this case, where one of the fundamental questions in are on, what rights will women have? what rights do they have and that regime to play against a team that as christine points out was standing up for some of those very principles? it's a very important moment. now what it means ultimately inside iran, do not really know. we'll find out what happened
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with that team when they head back there. but i do want to point out when that winning goal was scored, i also suffered an abdominal injury. but it was a very dramatic and thrilling moment here. thrilling here in very many ways. >> by the way, carrie, there are people in iran who are celebrating the victory for the u.s.. and there is this very poignant moment, you can actually see this moment where there is celebrating in response to the united states being the victor in this particular match. but there is also a moment, carrie, that really sticks out to me. and you have spoken about this so eloquently in the past. and i wonder if it struck you as well, just how significant broadly speaking, the national anthem or a decision not to say it but -- or the decision to be punished for refusal to abide by it has played a role. just look at the screen. over the course of history, from what happened in 1968 in mexico city to what happened on the field with colin kaepernick, to what's happening in the nba and the wnba, i should mention, to even the iranians choosing
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not to, initially, sing the national anthem as a not what we've been talking about today. they were later obviously told that there might be some threats to their family and their safety and security, which is very telling. but when you think about the significance of that, and this world stage, what goes through your mind? >> well, you know, first and foremost, athletes have always been at the front lines of these issues, especially when the implications are global. what i find arguably the most heartwarming is that what we have been asking, i think not necessarily asking, but what we require of certain athletes is to make really tough decisions. they were told before they went to the world cup, don't do anything, no protests, pay attention, we don't want any problems. you will get a yellow card you decide to speak out or speak out against something. and that really is an unfair
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position to put them in in so many instances. so for that iranian team to see no, i'm not going to sing the national anthem, that was a very bold choice. i think arguably what we witnessed yesterday and today, and i'm going to refer to captain tyler adams. his response towards the iranian reporter, i don't know if you guys saw this, his response was so eloquent and so respectful and so in terms of sobering and disarming, you had to want to root for the americans. he understood that those other players on the other side in iran were in a very tough position. he understands there is this very venomous attitude toward america based on something the players themselves had nothing to do with. talk about that islamic emblem -ing removing their flag. and he was able to endure everyone, including the people in iran on his side. so, when these athletes decide to take these stands, they really are risking a lot. some people are obviously
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risking iranian family and friends. here at home, you have people going against you, perhaps not necessarily being praised as you want to. and so, when they make these bold gestures, these gestures that say i am with you, i see you, and i understand it is not right, and i'll do whatever i can in whatever way i can, we have to honor that. there are a lot of problems that are happening in qatar. and this is one of those highlighted moments. and i'm glad we're able to deal with it. >> i really am glad to see that and think about that. and don, how can i not go to you about this very point as well? can you just speak to the significance, for the die hard true football fans, we will call them, to those who just love ted lasso? i mean, the significance of what we're talking about here, the idea that the united states, not to be dismissive of their extraordinary talent, but in the overall landscape, we are known for our women to be the best in the world, thinking about it. and to have this significant moment, tell me about the significance and what this is like for the united states to be in this position now.
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>> it's a wonderful position for this american team to be in, laura. the excitement was that this young team, one of the youngest teams in the tournament, would be ready to go for the next world cup in four years time, which the united states is co-hosting with mexico and canada. but they all ready seem to have exceeded expectations with their performances. there are now into the next round where they're going to play the netherlands on saturday. that is going to be a really, really tough game. but if they can get through that, this is the kind of tournament where anything could happen. and these guys are just getting going. but i do want to speak a little bit about covering this event here in qatar, the buildup to it. it's unlike anything i've experienced before. the political kind of backdrop and side roster to what we've discussed but. to go to a game where you might expect both sides of supporters to have a central animosity between them.
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it was nothing like that. but with the iranian supporters, you had the fans here who wanted he iranian team to win because they were pro regime. you had the iranian supporters here who really didn't know what they one of their team to accomplish. they really couldn't work out if it was better if they won or if they lost. i spoke to an iranian fan before the game. he wouldn't give me his last name. he was brave enough to give me his first name. but he said i've come here to this world cup, and i want to see them lose. i don't want to see them go any further. i know how the government exploits the team and uses them for political ends. and i don't want any more of this. and the footage that we've seen coming out of iran in the last few hours is absolutely extraordinary. and it really speaks to the sense of betrayal that these people have felt that they are now openly in the streets celebrating the demise of their team. i saw one clip where an american flag was even being waved out a car window.
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these are people who are taught to chant death to america while they are in primary school. and now, here they are celebrating the united states victory, celebrating the demise of their team. and their players have been through such a rollercoaster. we saw the emotion of them at the end. i cannot even imagine what is going through their mind. they are disappointed as athletes to be out of the world cup. but everything they've experienced over the last week and a half, i, mean it's just something we cannot imagine. american athletes, as you say, we would like them to take a stand, we'd like them to speak out on human rights and civil rights. but what these guys in iran are going through is just a whole other world, i think. >> don, i'm so glad you brought that perspective. escapism that people seek out when it comes to sports is really a luxury, and one that we can't necessarily always adhere to in times like this. and you know, there's these great op-eds out right now
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about whether it's better to have to iran still in because it promotes the conversation around what's happening in iran but. and now that they're out well that conversation and? this one has to end temporarily, but we'll be looking ahead to saturday to watching this match from the u. s. men's team against netherlands. thank you all. hope you get some rest and enjoyment out there, don. and everyone else, thank you for being a part of it tonight. it was really exciting to see this happen. thank you. well, from the politics of sports to what's actually happening here on capitol hill, a critical vote in the senate passing a bill to protect same-sex marriage. and it is expected to pass in the house next week. but what happens if the supreme court overturns that 2015 obergefell decision? well, jim, obergefell himself says he's not celebrating today. and i'll explain why, next. but ♪ ♪ ♪
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>> while, the senate tonight passing the respect for marriage act 61 to 36. the bill protects same-sex an interracial marriage. all the members of the democratic caucus voting yes, along with 12 republicans. the house will take it up next week. and once it passes, which it is expected to do, it goes to president biden's desk for his signature. now, people are celebrating the bipartisan nature of all of this. and, yes we should absolutely cheer that because bipartisan victories, while, they are pretty rare these days. but when you unpack the respect for marriage act, there was actually a lot more to it. let me explain. you remember of course back in june, when roe v. wade was overturned by the conservative
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majority on the supreme court. while many people wondered, including myself, whether marriage rights would be next and immediately turned to congress to try to do something about it. what was that? while, to codify the protections that such rights would not be at the mercy of a supreme court or any court for that reason. to ensure that those rights were legislatively guaranteed. so, is what president biden will sign in line with the supreme court's landmark 2015 obergefell decision? does it codify what was said there? not exactly. so, the new law would assure full benefits for marriage, regardless of a couple's sex or race or ethnicity or national origin. federal government will be required to recognize marriages that were valid in a state when performed. but notice the nuance in what i just said. it had to be valid in the state before the feds are required to recognize it. the state, therefore, still
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holds some pretty powerful cards in its ability to find what exactly is a so-called valid marriage. now, this new law will not require states to issue a marriage license that's contrary to state law. and organized religions won't be required to perform same-sex marriages. so, why did the states retain such power? well, there's a word, it's called federalism. the concept that says when it comes to power, congress has to stay in its lane. and the rest of the road, well, it belongs to the states. now, if the supreme court were to overturn obergefell, which legalized same sex marriage, a state could pass a law to ban same sex marriage. but that state would be required to recognize a same-sex marriage from a another state. there is a big exception in terms of what the fed would have to recognize, and that is polygamy. uncle sam will not be require to protect polygamist marriages. because the federal government will defer to a state's definition of marriage, well, the law won't offer all the
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protection that the obergefell decision offers as of right now. but remember there, in obergefell, states must allow and recognize same-sex marriages under the due process and equal protection clauses of the 14th amendment. codifying something into federal law does not mean you codify it at the state level. that is what you call federalism by design. despite the fact that congress does not hold all of the cards though, they certainly did play their hand in this matter. a lot of political games had to be played, and successfully, to get where we are today. the question is, given that hand, let's see if the voters at the state level let the cards they been dealt when it comes to codifying these rights. i want to bring in jim obergefell, who was the plaintive in the 2015 obergefell versus hodges decision. jim, i'm glad to see you. welcome to the program. how are you? >> thanks laura, i'm happy to be here. i wish it was for better reasons. but thanks for having me.
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>> you know, it's interesting, because someone look at this, jim, and think it's counterintuitive. should people be celebrate the codification of this decision? and at first glance, it sounds like when congress says we are going to codify and make sure we've got same-sex marriage on the books, but that's exactly what it's done. but you don't think that it does. and i've explained of course the reasons why. but do you think it should have gone further? and are you celebrating this senate victory for now? >> no, i am not celebrating, laura. i will say i'm happy that at least something has been done, something that we will have to fall back on should the supreme court overturn obergefell in the future. but this act, i find it curious that is called the respect for marriage act, because this act does not respect lgbtq+ communities, our marriages, our relationships, or our families. and the fact that this act
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would allow states to once again deny marriage licenses to same sex couples, where is the respect in that? and i have really just continually come back to this, laura, how on earth does my marriage to john, or any same-sex marriage, harm any other person or any other marriage in this country? it does not. so, yes, i am happy that there's at least something that will be codified should obergefell be overturned. i'm happy to have this, as opposed to having everything being taken away. but this is not respect for marriage. this would take us back to a time where we are once again second-class citizens who are given something that is not marriage, is not respected and protected, and offered equally to every person in this country. that's my issue with the respect for marriage act. >> now, to clarify, at one point the law would ensure, and i don't want to take away from
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any of the points that you've raised, but just to clarify for the audience, if a state were to ban same sex marriage in their own respective state, the law would require them to respect a marriage that is same sex that is valid in a different state to honor the sort of notion. but your point is well taken about the breadth of protection not being universal. and i understand there's also this moment from senator cynthia loomis, who is out of wyoming, a republican, and listen to what she had to say today to explain her vote in favor. remember, it was unanimous for democrats in the senate, and 12 republican senators. here was her explanation as to why, jim. >> for the sake of our nation today and its survival, we do well by taking this step. not embracing or validating each other's devoutly held views, but by the simple act of tolerating them.
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and that, madam president, explains my vote. >> you know, you have to cringe on the idea of the tolerance aspect. i suspect that is your view as well. >> absolutely. and to your point earlier, laura, the fact that there could be people in 30 some states across the nation who are unable to get a marriage license and get married in the state they call home, that is not equal, that is not respect. now, to this point about tolerance, you are right. i have to laugh at that. because this bill, this act that had religious freedom, so-called religious freedom amendments attached to it, this is not about respecting or tolerating anyone else's religious beliefs. this is about one specific group of people who will believe their interpretation of their religion is more
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important than any other, more important than human beings in the public sphere. that is not tolerance. religious freedom means that people have the ability, the right, the practice their religion of choice, their faith in their home, and in their house of worship. it does not mean using their religion to persecute others who do not share that same fate structure. so, this is not about tolerance. this is about kowtowing the people who want preference for their religion, their interpretation of their particular religion, in the fall of sphere. and that is not religious freedom. >> jim obergefell, thank you so much for your insight tonight. it was appreciated. >> thanks, laura. >> david urban is back and join me is political commentator hillary rosen and cnn's court
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reporter ariane devogue. ariana, let me pick up exactly where jim left off and this notion of religious freedom. this does not mirror the obergefell decision. it is not precise by any stretch of the imagination. but because of federalism, because of what they've accomplished in the court, can you just explain a little bit about why you think the religious liberty aspect of it was top of mind? >> right, well, in 2015 when the court issued obergefell, nobody would have thought that this bill was necessary, right. justice kennedy issued that sweeping decision, clearing the way for gay marriage nationwide. no one would have thought that this was necessary. and as you said, because of roe v. wade, you know, justice alito in that opinion said, look, this is, this opinion on dobbs is just about abortion. it is not about anything else. but then justice clarence thomas in that concurring opinion, he was not on that same page. remember he said that in future cases we should consider all of this courts due process presidents including griswold, lawrence, and obergefell.
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and remember that the liberals, they picked up on that right away. and they said look, clarence thomas is not on the same page as alito. they started raising these alarms. and that's how we got to today, right. so, you talk a little bit about the religious liberty. we do see some exceptions here for religious liberty. and that is what is important at the supreme court right now, because they care about that issue, they cared about it last term in two big cases. and we have another case that will be argued next week all about somebody who designs websites to celebrate marriages but does not want to design such a website for same sex couples. they think that they should be accepted. and that's before the supreme court. and this conservative supreme court is probably going to rule in favor of that person.
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>> i mean, it is the layering of all of this. everything needs to lead to the next thing. hillary, what's your reaction? you are listening to the interview with. jim did you have a reaction to a satisfaction? >> jim is an old friend of mine and i respect what he says. but the forum we are in right now is a political forum. the legislative forum is a forum of compromise by its nature. and this bill was a compromise. we would not be here if it were not for this kind of radical right supreme court that is seems somewhat determined to unwind everything. and we would not be here, actually, if we don't have a democratic senate and a democratic house. like, this would not happen next year. the house would not do this next year. and that's why i worry about more decisions coming out of the court unwinding civil rights that people have depended on, that they live on, and not having a congress that can codify this stuff. look, it's not -- critical things have happened today. if you're not already married, you don't have to worry about
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your marriage being an rolled. that's an important thing for families. and i'm gay, i'm not married, but it matters. you don't want your marriage unwound. do any other thing is yes, he's right. you don't have to go to nevada if you want to get married in your same-sex couple. and that is a pain. and it is not fair. and it is discriminatory. but once you get back to your home in wyoming, wyoming is required to recognize your marriage under this new law. so, it does make some practical things safe for same sex couples. and i think that is something that we have to be happy about, considering the alternative, which would be what happened in the dobbs decision, the abortion decision, which has thrown everything into disarray in the reproductive health space and women's rights. knocking us back 50 years. >> i hear you, and the idea -- you ascribe a low bar of probability universally, and the social spectrum, but in politics, where these the compromises that were necessary for those 12 republicans to sign on? >> so, listen, i think, as
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hillary points out, this is washington, d. c.. jim obviously doesn't work here. nothing gets done is town, right. for smith to pass, it's really amazing. it's taken a lot of effort on a lot of people's parts to get where we are today. i was one of the republicans that signed on to a letter urging the senate to pass this bill. it is important for a variety of reasons. jim articulated, hillary knows, and i've articulate. so, you know, it is. we had 47 republicans in the house vote for this. we had 12 republicans, a wide range of folks from really liberal folks to very conservative people. but whatever cynthia loomis did or did not do, she still voted yes for us. it's a big deal. if really conservative people vote for this. and i think it's a big victory. you know, it may not be the whole of what everybody wanted and what jim wanted and others, but i think it's a very positive step forward. it should be celebrated as what the art in the possible can get done in this town, and so what can happen when people try to get things accomplished.
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>> the fact that bipartisanship is the pinnacle -- >> but -- >> we face this in the house, and in the congress next year, after the supreme court, we are going to -- >> something else -- >> it's going to pass the senate, it's going to pick up pass the house. we are going to pick up some more folks. -- when we do something good in washington, people should celebrate. >> there you go. >> i will bring out the balloon. had i known you were coming, i would have baked a cake. up next, he got a racist letter after putting up an inflatable black santa on his front lawn. so, what did chris kennedy do? what anyone would do. went to santa camp and became a black santa himself. i will tell that story next.
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holiday for a lot of us, and especially for chris kennedy, a married father in north little rock, arkansas. two years ago, he put an inflatable black santa on his front lawn. his little girl, his daughter, could see that he looks just like her. unfortunately, someone sent him a racist letter, demanding he take that inflatable down, insisting that santa claus is white. now, determined not to be intimidated, he put up a second black santa, decided he needed to do even more to make sure that children of color felt included. >> this is the type of people that i live around. all of a sudden, we've got a problem with black santa. >> you always see santa as being white. >> yes, i thought there was a variety of santa that came in every different state. >> so, chris kennedy enrolled in santa clara to become a
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professionally trained santa claus. and now, he is black signed up for his entire community. his story is part of a documentary on santa camp that is streaming on hbo max, cnn's sister network. and chris kennedy joins me now live. chris, it's so nice to see you. look at the beard. it's already there. i'm already feeling jolly. i'm on hopefully the nice list. we'll see after this interview, if you keep me on this. but i have to ask, you you set out based on what happened in your community, and this letter that you received, before we get into that. just tell me why it was important to you to even have this inflatable santa, and for your daughter to see a black santa claus? >> well, for me, it's one of those things that i did not grow up seeing it. there was not very inclusive christmas decorations and things of that nature growing up. so, i wanted to make sure that she got to grow up and see it.
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so my wife and i searched year around to find all sorts of decorations that represent us as a family and sure that she is a part of the world overall. >> that is a beautiful sentiment. and a lesson that all parents are hoping their children will feel. and you know, i migh t am not even going to dignify the letter, i really am interested in what you did about it. because i had never heard of a santa camp. and the fact that there is, one and you went there, and you shared your experience as to why you are there. you are the only black santa at the santa camp. and i'm just wondering, when you talk to the different people who were participants in it, and you talk about it, what was the reaction of the greater community of those who were equally invested in becoming the role model of santa claus in their communities? >> while, the interesting thing
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is the santa community is very welcoming, and really does want diversity in santas. they want all kids to be happy and be seen and be represented. people were upset not only with the ltter there came a picture they were upset -- give me a thumbs down, but they're also upset that somebody would not truly know the full story of christmas or even saint nicholas, who was turkish, and know that he had brown skin. and if you follow the actual history of santa claus, he was originally brown, and coca-cola in their ads just happened to use a white actor. and that's what we know today. but overall, the santa community actually is very welcoming of all santas. >> well, that is important to think about. and the idea of jolly saint nick, as they say, and to see you in that particular role. you are going to be in a christmas parade in little rock, the city of maumelle, as well.
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a lot of people see you, let people i hope will catch this important story, chris, watching santa camp, it is streaming on our sister network hbo max. thank you for being here and sharing that spirit with us today. we'll be right back. >> absolutely, thank you for having me. when you really need to sleep. you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. welcome to my digestive system. it's pretty calm in here with align probiotic. you see... your gut has good and bad bacteria. and when you get off balance, you may feel it. the bloating, the gas - but align helps me trust my gut again.
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