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well, good evening everyone. this is cnn tonight. look, you've got chapters closing, chapters opening. and some still being written in the very many investigations of the violent attack on the u.s. capitol and what happened of course in the days leading up to it and frankly since that day as well. now, the clock is ticking as you know for the january 6th committee. they're taking their final interviews of more than a thousand, the final of more than a thousand took place today. meeting on friday to discuss the possibility of making criminal referrals. that of course in the wake of the conspiracy convictions of two oath keepers and with the special counsel's investigation ramping up. the question is what is all of this going to reveal and does it still matter to the electorate?

plus, a new leader in the house as democrats pick hakeem jeffries to succeed nancy pelosi, the first black lawmaker to lead a party in congress. as a new generation is now changing the face of our politics. with team u.s.a. and the world cup spotlight after their thrilling victory over iran, this is also a very big moment. and frankly a long overdue pay day for the women's team. i'll talk to one of the women's world cup champions and frankly a personal hero of mine coming up. we have a lot to talk about tonight. here with me cnn anchor and correspondent, national security attorney bradley moss and mike shield former rnc chief of staff. i'm glad to have you all here. we'll get to the world cup without you here and maybe in the break. let's talk about a different matchup happening on capitol hill. really, we are expecting with the new congress about 34 days away from being sworn in there

are already promises of new investigations. i'm wondering from your perspective and thinking about these moments. what do you think the impact of the culmination of all we've seen with january 6th and the oath keepers trial is going to have on the gop led house coming up? it will be good nighted already. the committee is not going to continue. mike, what is your take on how this might move forward in maybe a different way? >> well, i think what you saw today with verdicts coming down in a case is the contrast between when you have the justice system prosecuting people for january 6, people getting indicted and put in prison, the fbi investigating, a nonpolitical process. and the political process of the january 6 commission which is politicians on capitol hill with a completely different mission than the actual justice system. personally, i believe republicans like to see jenn who attacked a -- anyone who attacked a car put in jail and

getting grand jury indictments. that is the process. bipartisan way is what should have been going on. it turned into from our perspective a bit of a circus. very partisan committee. >> but it didn't have to be a partisan committee. there was initially the discussion of having an independent commission that was thwarted and then the idea of at least having five members who were republicans on the committee but kevin mccarthy had a different opinion of that and wanted jim jordan and another person as well. does that impact the way you view what turned into a circus in your mind? >> it does and in full disclosure i do work for kevin mccarthy. there were precedent breaking things that happened. never before had the minority party not been allowed to choose its own committee members on a select committee so going forward you'll see that sort of thing happening over and over because the glass has been

broken and the norms destroyed. one of the things speaker-elect mccarthy advocated for was let's expand this and let the justice system handle prosecuting people. let's us take a look at political violence. things that happened to paul pelosi, to steve scalise where he was shot. violence in our cities and political violence growing in the country. why don't we as politicians look at that? he was rejected. >> is that relevant to january 6th? there was not a full accounting of that day on the record and was it the responsibility of congress to figure that out, figure out the attempt to disrupt that particular day? >> i think it is the responsibility of congress to do that in a bipartisan way in good faith and if you are going to analyze political violence of course that was political violence. you are not going to ignore that but add it as a larger context so you don't look like you are using it as a political cudgel.

that's what it turned into. this is a democrat led committee, very partisan. >> there was a token republican or two put on to the committee for the sake are politics but the minority party and their leader were cut out of it and they weren't allowed to choose their own members. >> i hear you and i want you in here, brad. i think people are chomping at the bit in retort because there was the offer. there was the opportunity to have that. but in broader terms, there is of course the umbrella investigations and you want to unpack everything about political violence generally but there was the immediate urgency of what happened specifically on january 6th. you're an attorney, national security. the idea of wanting to tackle national security as an umbrella term. then there is a particular action that needed accounting for. do you see it as more specific?

>> yeah. and the reason it had to be this focused in terms of january 6th and not the broader -- we could have talked about the summer of 2020, any number of things that dealt with political violence. the reason the january 6th committee reacted as it did, it was looking into potential legislative fixes to prevent what we learned, people like john eastman and former president trump were trying to do to prevent the certification of electoral count. you mentioned something. i want to make sure this is clear. when possibly speaker mccarthy coming up was trying to put people like jim jordan on the committee the reason it was unprecedented in terms of rejecting them is because they were material fact witnesses and ultimately got subpoenaed themselves and of course declined to comply which was their choice to make. that is why those particular individuals would not be normally sitting on that committee. you would never allow normally in any kind of judicial process

if there was one along those lines. >> does that change your opinion of that? and also, there has been as we know it wasn't as if it was just democrats testifying. a lot of the things that transfixed a lot of people on the testimony of january 6th, i admit, every witness was not transfixed. i'm not going to pretend i was captivated by every single person for the entire durr atio of the testimony but there were a lot of republicans there. you talk about the tokenism of congressman liz cheney which is slightly news to her. i know she has been called a rino. does that impact for you how you saw this ultimately turning out or is the issue if i hone in more that you're not satisfied by the outcome that you haven't had the answers yet? >> look, i think congress investigating an attack on congress is a very legitimate thing to do but to bring the country along, have the faith and credibility of the american people, it has to be bipartisan. you have to go a long way and make sure people have faith in

it. otherwise everything in washington turns into politics. one side saying one thing the other side saying the other thing and they allowed that partisanship to go on. even if the republicans named someone on the committee and there is a problem, let that play out. let them name them and take part in the process and say we have an issue you need to replace them. try to buy into credibility for the american people. there are a huge number of people in this country that just said this committee is a farce at this point. i think that does a disservice to the truth that we're all talking about getting to because you've now said to a huge swath of the american people you don't count and we're not going to include your views. >> under a speaker mccarthy, would he want political violence investigated? is that one of the investigations we would see in the coming months? >> well, i can't speak for what his plans are moving forward on that. i haven't talked to him about that. but that was what he advocated in the negotiations with, at the time speaker pelosi, before this, was let's expand this out. this isn't the only political violence that happened.

we have members of congress. >> so something that he would come back to >> i don't know the answer to that. >> yeah. it is worth asking. because if we're talking about it expansively, follow through. let's see it >> i think some of these things get broken by the way they are approached. my point is for instance just one last point on this, for instance, another thing unprecedented that happened in this congress was normally it is respected that each party is allowed to choose who they put on committees. for the first type the democrats said we'll remove republicans off of committees. i think you'll see a tit for tat of that now and see republicans removing democrats off committees. these sort of norms which at one point the democrats were very upset about norms being broken in washington, they've broken them too and it just separates us out. >> one thing on this, though, thinking about, you talk about the idea of compartmentalizing the distinction. as a voter the idea of tit for tat retaliation already makes me roll my eyes. i think of the list of priorities that ought to be there collectively but i think you are probably right.

let me ask you. there are, there is reporting that just on friday they're going to start talking about criminal referrals which i know is part of mike's note about politics versus criminal referrals. how do you see this panning out? you have people that were subpoenaed to testify and didn't follow through in response. what do you see as potential criminal referrals? >> the ones that interested me reading the reporting were issues of perjury and witness tampering which obviously anyone who comes before congress, one you got to tell the truth and two you can't be tampering with witnesses. those are the ones i am most interested to see what came out of those transcripts and what is outlined because those i believe would go beyond the political issue. when you are dealing with whether they'll make a criminal referral for president trump on conspiracy, the justice department is already investigating. they've been bringing in stephen miller and these different people. they don't need congress for that. if congress has evidence relevant for the justice department with respect to witness tampering that is

important and needs to be reported. just like republicans made criminal referrals when they were running it during the first part of president trump's administration democrats can make the same referrals. the ones that matter to me are those dealing with perjury. >> today you had the attorney general merrick garland seeming to be a receptive audience to anyone to be held to account who has an attack on our democracy in the proper form you are talking about. there is a lot more to unpack and it won't all get resolved tonight but let's unpack what may be resolved, maybe not this coming saturday, because we're talking about the world cup fever. it is spreading. and a this country is coming together around a notably diverse u.s. men's team but a question that has been going around and being asked and really contemplated right now is what we're asking of our black american athletes as they are being questioned about their race and identity and intersectionality even on a world stage. plus how team u.s.a.'s victory over iran is righting a wrong for the women's team.

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the u.s. men's soccer team tried to take on the netherlands this coming saturday in the

world cup's knock out round the team advancing after defeating iran 1-0 in a very hard fought victory just yesterday. while the world cup is delivering thrilling and nail biting matches, it is also shining a very big spotlight on issues around social justice and diverse representation in sports. i want to bring in now clint smith staff writer for "the atlantic" and former u.s. goalkeeper, world cup champion, and two-time olympic gold medalist, also the author of "my greatest save the brave barrier breaking journey of a world champion goalkeeper" and a personal hero of mine. i am from minnesota. i was on a team in soccer when you were really just kicking butt and taking names. i'm so glad you're here. clint, i am happy you're here too but i'm talking to minnesotans for a moment >> i watched her too. >> there you go. wonderful. let's just jump in. so many of us have been seeing the excitement and there are going to be people watching

right now who are watching this team in the world cups and they are solidifying their list of personal heroes as well. i am wondering what has been your reaction to what you've seen? >> the guys have done incredibly well so far. i mean, i was hopeful they would get out of the group and that is exactly what they did yesterday in nail biting fashion mind you. a flair for the dramatic. once again, u.s. soccer came through. a big plan was put forward for them to do well. and, fortunately, they've done well. so now it is just all gravy for them. >> amazing to think about where they are. not like the little engine that could but we think of the women's soccer team on this world stage far more than the men which is ironic but we're also having, and you wrote a great piece about this, clint, we seem to have very fixed visions of who plays soccer and at what level. >> yes, yes. >> when you have athletes who don't conform to whatever that

image is there is an opportunity to have the conversations. you saw tyler adams who was asked a question about representing the united states of america and about his race in particular. listen to this. >> there is discrimination everywhere you go. you know, one thing i've learned especially from living abroad in the past years and having to fit in in different cultures and assimilating to different cultures is that in the u.s. we are continuing to make rprogres every single day. obviously it takes longer and it is so important like you just educated me now on the pronunciation of your country. as long as you see progress that is the most important thing. >> to be clear the question he was asked by an iranian journalist was whether he felt uneasy representing a country with a history of discrimination. maybe a little bit of people in

glass stones shouldn't throw stones. i thought it was a very thoughtful response >> i think i was sort of blown away by the fact that he is 23 years old, the first time he has been in this situation the u.s. hasn't played in the world cup in eight years. last time the u.s. was in the world cup tyler adams was 15 years old. to be asked a question of that geo political significance with no context i think he gave a really measured, thoughtful answer and it also reflects his own experience. tyler adams has a very unique background, raised by a white mother and white family. he spoke to the way he has been able to move in his experience across different groups and cultures. what is interesting for me is this team has 11 different black players on it. their experiences reflect the diversity of the black experience in america and the growing internationalism of the black american experience more

generally. each of them may have given different versions of that answer based on their own experiences but i think that answer tyler gave was really important and legitimate and reflected i think a level of empathy, calmness, thoughtfulness beyond his years. >> for me, growing up, i had you to look up to. also literally. you are much taller than i am but thinking about it and what was, you became a norm for me. i saw you. therefore we must be playing. we have those positions which is such a blessing to see you in that role. there are a generation of young women, to your point, clint, this is your title 9 men players they call them right now, right? we have been fighting as more broadly women but certainly in the athletic arena the idea of pay equity. you know this quite well. so we understand that based on where they are right now, women's team is going to get

essentially half of their earnings which is a phenomenal accomplishment and not a condescending i'll give you a little bit of scraps. what do you think of it that and what does it signify that this is where we are? >> i think it signifies so much has changed in particular with the tyler situation. he was chosen by his teammates to be captain. normally a coach will declare who the captain is based on their viewpoint of how they lead and how they feel about that person in the grand scheme of the team but the players chose him. so that is number one. it says a lot about him as a leader and as a person. with regards to showing how there is equity now that was 30 years in the making. we've been fighting for a very long time including the mid 90s even for this. now that we finally were able to get there in part because of the maturity and the understanding of this men's team because all

different entities had to come to the table, and a former teammate of mine now president of the soccer federation, all these different groups had to come together and have agreement and the men were gracious enough to say the women deserve it. it's time. let's do the right thing by them and, also, now we are all on the same page and cheering for each other and it is truly one nation one team. this is the first time it's been that way. >> that is amazing. the literal buy-in of what we're discussing, if we had pay equity when the women were winning as well we'd be in a very different position. speaking of pages your book is incredible and talking about the personal journey you have had and pay equity comes into that and your own personal experiences. it is an unbelievable read. we'll be rooting on team u.s.a. on saturday. i have to ask, reading the tea leaves, how do they fare against the netherlands? i know you'll say they're going

to win. how are they going to fare? >> here is the interesting thing about that. the round robin play you have calculations, trying to figure out who should play, who shouldn't play. that all goes out the window now. it is win or go home. a whole new ball game. those are cliche's but so true and the men are in uncharted territory but these guys are, you know, proud enough and good enough and they just might upset the world by being in the netherlands on saturday. so don't be surprised if you see it >> i think this world cup has shown that anybody can beat anybody on any day. we saw saudi arabia beat argentina. we saw tunisia today beat france. i think there are so many examples in this world cup of teams that, groups of teams that traditionally wouldn't be considered contenders or people who can measure up to some of the best teams in the world. the world cup is such a singular moment, experience, and players as she knows, like this is the moment. this is what you dream of when you're a kid. i think this young team, this

team who again the last time the u.s. played in the world cup, all of these guys were kids. so i think they're going to be really revved up for this and anything can happen. >> imagine, to your piece, clint, people should read it in the atlantic, imagine all they had to do is address themselves as athletes. just that, just the burden of sport in and of itself. thank you both of you. history is being made in other areas. as you know even today in the house of representatives democrats picking hakeem jeffries as the first black lawmaker to lead a party in congress. it also marks a big generational shift. what does all this say about the future of the democratic party? more broadly?

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president joe biden tonight tweeting a photo of his dinner with first lady dr. jill biden and president macron and his wife in washington, saying, welcoming some friends to town. but tomorrow night it'll be all tuxedos and gowns and china and crystal for the biden administration's first state dinner. the first state dinner in fact since 2019. it will be an important day. i want to also focus on what is another important day and a very historic vote in the house today. democrats electing new congressman hakeem jeffries as leader. he is now the first black person to lead one of the two major parties in either chambers of congress. what does all of this tell us about the future of the democratic party and the country

more broadly. we're joined by alaska's democratic congresswoman. lovely to have you here. thank you for being here. it is a really exciting time and time of transition. thinking about it, i mean, the significance, my daughter who is 8 always jokes around. history seems to happen all the time. she is no longer impressed by what happens. 14 years now after the first african american president we have a black woman as a vice president. when you think about the context of this speak to significance. >> the context for me is when you look at the congressional black caucus so many lawmakers there are lawmakers like jim clyburn really came of age and came to power in that sort of post integration burst in many cities around the country. they didn't end up speaker, right? they got close but not there. i think the fact hakeem jeffries has been mentored by clyburn who

still has a lot of influence and will remain in leadership is quite significant but it is the reflection of the ability of that particular power broker and figure in congress to help be part of that ushering in and part of that decision making. there isn't a hakeem jeffries without all of the other lawmakers you saw in the congressional black caucus working hard all those years. >> speaking of what is being ushered in and the lawmakers who are now part of this new generation, new congress to be sworn in what, 34 days from now? thinking about where you are and you're historic in your own right, the nature of your politics and where you are today, i wonder if you have reflected on the changing significance of how people are represented and how you will endeavor to do so. >> it is really impressive how far we've come in 14 years or 20 years or 30 years.

in some ways, it is amazing it's taken this long. we've seen such a growth spurt in a short time. hakeem jeffries when he gave his acceptance speech within the caucus today it was so moving and he talked about the beautiful mosaic of america being represented in our caucus. it is just true. there is such a diversity in our caucus and it is wonderful to see that in the leadership not just hakeem jeffries but pete aguilar. >> kathleen clark, ted lu. so that really shows that there is a recognition that no matter where you come from, no matter your ethnic background, the color of your skin we all have leadership qualities and can be wonderful, good leaders and coalesce people together. >> it is such an important point and thinking about the mosaic and what it stands for then of

course the reality sits in for the american electorate as well and we can look at the tapestry and the mosaic. as the congressman said today at times it is going to come down to getting stuff done. right? here he is. >> house democrats fight for the people. that's our story. that's our legacy. that's our values. that's our commitment as we move forward. get stuff done. make life better for every day americans. >> it is the marching order i think every member of the electorate wants to happen can it be realized and achieved? >> absolutely. we have real pressing problems right now domestically, in foreign affairs. we have real things that we need to get done. it really shouldn't even matter

fundamentally what our ethnicities are. we all need to be pulling, to be making sure that we've got our eye on the ball and we are moving forward. >> it is so important. while you have the leadership on the democratic side, now solidified, on the republican side who is in the majority as you well know kevin mccarthy is not necessarily a shoe-in which may surprise some people. it is his last bite of the apple and the last night he did not bid farewell. when you recognize the priorities and the need for bipartisan knowing that some -- mccarthy may have a caucus of manchins. how do you see this going? >> i don't want to be the spoiler because you sound so idealistic and i love your energy. i think that's great. >> uh-oh. >> democrats will be in the minority. it is going to be tough. it is probably good for hakeem jeffries to be starting in the

minority. that is where you have to really figure out the vote counting and keeping people together and all those things that speaker pelosi very much did all those years and did actually get things done. there are so many pieces of legislation that have her stamp on it. meanwhile, with mccarthy, you know, behind him there is kind of a political grave yard of speakers past, of republicans, right, wlr it is paul ryan or john boehner, there's a lot of people who really faltered. he is already experiencing the difficulty that they did with the current breed of house politician which i'm going to go out on a limb and say is a little bit different and there are many more people who have power without the party meaning they have a kind of media stardom. maybe they are a great fundraiser. they have the cameras. they don't necessarily need the party and they are not shy about

saying that. that is going to make his job difficult and i think the fact they haven't laid out very specific legislative priorities is something to consider and it will be interesting to see how democrats hold their coalition together when there is such a tiny minority. they can actually do a little damage and can affect things even though they are not in power because the majority the republicans have is so slim. >> we will be watching for the opportunity to see how this plays out. if you're the spoiler i want the glass half full in congress. we'll play it that way. it will be important. congresswoman, my best of luck to you. >> thank you so much. from a deadly pandemic to mass shootings to nationwide protests it's been a very traumatic few years to say the least. for many, while trauma can go back not just months or days and weeks but decades or even

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so we live in a society that is dealing with collective trauma. fair to say? well, all of us have been impacted by serious, life changing events over just the last few years. including the covid-19 pandemic, extreme violence, leek the murder of george floyd, and the horrific stream of mass shootings including at schools. trauma is the subject of the podcast this week "the assignment" and here is part of it. >> for sure, given the last couple years all of us are probably a little bit traumatized. the riots over police involved

killings, killings that run on a loop on your smartphone. >> the only thing i can tell is he couldn't breathe. >> reporter: the national debates about race and a pandemic that revealed inequality in our health, education, and economy like a low tide. but there is a difference between the shock of these events and the long term effects of trauma on whole communities. what does that mean? what do people who know about trauma think about the way it is being kicked around in pop culture? >> audi is back with me also joined by cnn political commentator and mike shield is back as well. audie it is fascinating to think about this. because on the one hand the idea of talking about trauma still feels very fresh in the overall modern history of america. we seem to still be a, put under the rug sort of maybe collective generation of people. on the other hand, what we see,

the phrase all in together at least for the pandemic for example certainly we can pin point to broader issues of trauma. but the idea it is more of a shared experience might surprise people in very different ways. you had a guest, dr. bryant, who talked about everyone having experienced some sort of trauma. that is a difficult tie to bind >> i think she, just to give it some context here, there is an expanding area of research which says that there can be various gene suppression or expression in descendants of people who experience collective trauma. they've studied holocaust victims' descendants. also pregnant women post 911 and have kind of looked at these communities at their stress levels, etcetera. that is an expanding area of newer research in the area of genetics and the backdrop to this conversation about

psychology. what is interesting is that psychology has not really embraced this idea there could be what is called ancestral trauma, that a trauma could somehow collectively affect a marginalized community, black, native american, japanese internment victims, etcetera. but after 2020 this became more of a topic and of more interest. now their president-elect this woman dr. bryant is a specialist in this at pepperdine university and she runs a lab called the culture and research lab. and they basically figure out how can we better treat people in general but how can we acknowledge the whole person in our treatment? it is not a slam dunk. there are some people who say, this is bringing politics into the room, creating a different dynamic between a predominantly white profession and maybe people of color who might come in for support. how do we reckon with this? >> the word acknowledgment was

really important. i think when you were talking i was thinking about the politics of people acknowledging the idea of intergenerational trauma and i bet there are many who sort of pooh pooh the idea. we think about how the sort of woke culture has been received, the idea of addressing emotional well being and mental health in different ways, not always something taken to heart or acknowledged in different political worlds. what is your take on it, thinking how there is this cross section, speaking earlier about compartmentalizing what ought to be political or personal or criminal does this strike you as an out of sorts notion? >> i think we need to find more and more avenues for people to feel comfortable talking about mental health. if their experience, whatever it is, gets them to talk i'm for it regardless. everyone's experience is different. that is the whole point of talking about mental health. we all have a different

experience and we need to be open and honest with each other as a society and make it okay to say i am experiencing trauma. the more we can do that, there are so many political issues we turn into partisan fights when actually we could all agree this is a mental health problem causing, you pick it. i don't want to add -- there is, mental health is at the root of so many problems in our country. we sort of touch on it then move on because we'd rather talk about something else. every way that you can find to get someone into that conversation is a good idea. >> we crave escapism in many respects, crave not to talk about -- >> i wouldn't think about it as escapism but coping. what are your coping mechanisms? there are toxic ways to cope with issues and that is why you go to mental health professionals to say is there a better way for me to cope with the stress of my life because maybe my parents taught me it is easier to have a glass of wine

at the end of the night or whatever it is rather than sitting down and talking it out or whatever. i am glad you said that about heritage and background because one of the things dr. bryant talked about is this is not just about marginalized communities. you can sit down with a patient and say have you ever had substance abuse? have you ever faced discrimination? you put that in the intake. if they feel they have experienced discrimination or something that is an experience that a clinician has to take in as they discuss it. >> i am so excited about this study and something that i tried to integrate as an organizer. you often see people who experience pain have a lot of solutions but often aren't engaged and that disregard for their lived experience creates more trauma.

it creates more sense of i don't matter and we come from a society, something happens, you're told dust your shoulders off. be tough. suck it up. when really you might have been hurt and we know hurt people hurt people. if we don't deal with the issues you don't have the capacity to really become your full and best self. that can be from generational trauma or from immediate trauma that you have from something that, you know, micro aggression to a blatant experience of racism. i think it is a conversation we need to have more in politics and across our country. >> certainly things that affect the people of the united states and a government formed by the people -- a government for and by the people. >> it is also happening in pop culture. we don't talk about bruno, everything everywhere all at once. i was sort of seeing it in pop culture. this idea you need to reckon with your past and what does

that actually really mean when it comes down to treatment. >> every parent in the world is now upset with audie for getting the song we don't talk about bruno. >> sorry. >> thank you for that. >> you're welcome. >> appreciate that. i'll take that for the rest of my life. speaking of music that really sticks with you, and has made so many moments and memories for so many people, the world of music did lose a star tonight. christine mcvie, one of the creative forces behind fleetwood mac, died today at the age of 79. her legacy? and her hits, next. ♪ i want to be with you everywhere ♪ om fidelity. [ cellphone vibrbrates ] you'll get proactive alelerts for market events before they happen... and insights on every buy and sell decision. with zero-commission online u.s. stock and etf trades.

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before. yesterday's gone. yesterday's gone. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> don't stop as one of the biggest hits him from fleetwood back and one of the most influential bands of all-time. christine miechv wrote that song and sadly, she died today at the age of 79. she was a prolific singer and songwriter. a key player in one of fleetwood mac's biggest hits including song bird, you make 11 fun and -- stevie nicks on instagram honoring her with a hand written message, calling her her best friend in the whole world. and saying, she didn't even know she was ill. back with me now, ashley -- and mike. i have to tell you, there is such a iconic nature of hearing songs like that, thinking about bands like fleetwood mac. in washington d.c., i couldn't help but hear that song and think about how often it is used in politics. for many it was the soundtrack

of the clinton campaign. and just thinking about how we often are looking to music to capture a moment, for the lyrics itself, don't stop thinking about tomorrow. don't stop, it will soon be here, it'll be better than before, yesterday's gone, yesterday's gone. and you think about what image that really creates and conjures in a place like washington d.c. where political slogans are trying to capture that moment. did that resonate for you to? >> sure, looking at the -- the amazing thing about fleetwood mac, one of the top selling albums of all-time, rumors, more than 40 million coffee sold. certainly, bill clinton the boomer president, baby boomer banned from the 70s, they sort of transcended generations. there's a tiktok that had a fleetwood mac song and it sort of reinvigorated -- >> or think of seeing that one. >> you now have kids, my friends have school age kids who know who fleetwood mac's, it blows my mind. i grew up with them, one of the

biggest bands historic hall of fame bands of rock and roll. and yet, they manage to transcend with their music. she had a massive impact. >> it's true. thinking about how music is the soul of a nation, but how you have to remember where you were moment when you heard this. inner generations. it's a way that some are trying to connect with others on this and it's a memory for her as well. what do you think? >> fleetwood mac was a little bit before my time. >> how dare you. >> it's okay. -- [laughter] and yet, today, i was on spotify listening to all their songs, and really reminiscing. -- one of my karaoke songs, that icing poorly, but i try. it is a beautiful legacy to see such great music transcend generations and will live long beyond this conversation. and what a deserving legacy it is. >> their music was deeply

personal. i think that something that's always resonated. it's also a group that's also been known for its personal infighting in volatility. she was the kind of more calm center. and represented a kind of stillness in a little bit of a chaotic interpersonal scenario. and well clinton is interesting, that song came out and 77. when you think back to that period politically, the idea that you would do something so optimistic and presented to the world, you know, i think is significant. finally, as a female songwriter, it's just so lovely to hear people speak about her with such reverence. because that is a group of songwriters. everyone is fantastic there. but she really has earned her place, and i think that part of her legacy of just writing so powerfully, so simply, and with such grace, that's what's gonna stand the test of time. >> so well said. we'll be right back.