good evening everyone, i am laura coats and this is cnn tonight. free speech liberty, and the right of same-sex couples to not be discriminated against. they are all tied up in a case for the supreme court this very

day. the big question is everyone asking, and the justices were asking today is does a graphic designer have the right to refuse to create websites that celebrate same-sex weddings based on her own religious beliefs. just a moment i will talk to the point of that very case. plus, if you have not noticed, we are only a few hours away from another election day. i told you, it is really election season, and the final election day of the midterms is on us tomorrow and it is really down to the wire now. in less than just nine hours, voters will go to the polls in georgia's senate runoff between democratic senator raphael warnock and republican challenger herschel walker. let's get right to the supreme court case right now, i'm joined by the plaintiff's, website designer lori smith and her lawyer christian wagner. ladies, welcome to the program. i'm glad you are both here. i have been really curious about this case, as so many people have. frankly, there has been a little divide about this issue in the sense of who can tell

who what to do and what they can do about it. it is kind of the old question at the time. i want to start with you lori, to understand your position a little bit more. but, this is not a case that was filed against her, this is not somebody who is suing you, this is almost a proactive opportunity that you are taking, i understand, to figure out can i expand into the wedding website business and not run afoul of colorado's law that says you cannot discriminate against same-sex couples. tell me about why you wanted to bring this case now before you even entered into the wedding website business? >> well, i am a custom graphic and website designer. i create unique one-of-a-kind websites, and yes i want to design for weddings and i want to design in a way that is consistent with my faith. but colorado is censoring and compelling my speech, forcing me to create custom artwork and expression that goes against

the core of what i am and what i believe. so everyone has the right to not only speak, but to create consistently with what they believe. at the core of my case is just that. everyone should be free to create her cork, that goes along whether -- or not their views are similar to mind. nobody should forced to create a message that goes against the core of who there. >> the word that i am hearing that stand out is custom, create, art, and speech. the those four really combined to be the heart of this entire issue. on the issue of custom, just so we are, clear these are not templates that you are putting out. somebody has to essentially contract with you specifically and they have a vision of how they want the website to go. and then you create that per couple or customer. is that right? >> absolutely correct, everything i create is unique, one-of-a-kind, no two graphics or websites are the same.

they are unique in nature and everything i create is expression of some sort. i have clients from all different walks of life. i've clients who identify as lgbt, but i cannot create every message that is requested of me. i there are some messages i can not create no matter who requests them. stage colorado is saying that i must set aside my beliefs to -- that should be frightening to all of us. nobody should be forced to communicate a message that goes against the core of who they are. >> well the state of colorado has said that if you create artwork that is consistent with your faith, you must set aside your faith to create websites that promote a message of marriage that goes against my beliefs. nobody should be put in that position, and so my case is not only about me in my artwork, but also about protecting the lgbt artist who should not be forced to create custom artwork

that opposes same-sex marriage. >> so just to be clear, no one has yet asked you to create a website for a same-sex couple. you are talking about this as a speculative notion. this might happen one day. so somebody has asked? do >> i have that requests. >> and what if you've done? >> i am unable to enter the wedding industry because the colorado law would come after me and treat me in a way that is treated other people of faith. so i took a stand to not only protect my right but the right of everyone, everyone should be free to create artwork consistent with what they believe, and so i should not have to sit around and wait to be punished to really challenge this unjust law in colorado. >> so just thinking about this, i want to bring you in your question, because as you can imagine and, i'm sure you heard today, so many people who are talking about different analogies, and a simpler slope as they say. the idea that if they let you do this, then you've got to let everyone else to something that is going to, in some, way harm

somebody discriminatory really. what do you make of the idea that, look, if colorado or the supreme court were to say now, you are an artist. i appreciate that, but if you avail yourselves to the public generally, you cannot then turn down certain people. because, if you do, others will follow in terms of religion, race, disability, what do you make of that connection to your client that this could cause a slippery slope? >> no matter how the court rules in lori's case, it is still illegal to turn someone away because of who they are. the critical distinction that the justices made today in the case is that it is based on what the messages, not -- it is based on the message, not who the person is. lori has lgbt clients, she is always looking at the message. every graphic design artist, every artist, wants to have the right to make the distinction based on message. even united states in the court today agreed on that premise.

the government cannot compel you to say something that you do not believe. >> the question really is how is it your message, if it is their wedding? >> everything i create is unique and one-of-a-kind and there is an important process of determining what their message or messages are that i'm being asked to create. i am carefully considering what those are, or is always about the message or messages, never about the individual. but then i am using a custom, we're not talking about tablets, i am creating from scratch, very much like traditional watercolor artist uses a white canvas, i am starting from scratch and creating custom artwork, lettering, words, i am telling a story in a way that i think is artistic and creative, creating imagery, photo, everything from start and is custom and unique. it is speech, everything i create is expressive and colorado agrees that what i create is speech. >> there is that moment, that they seem to talk, about the

strongest part of your argument is the idea being related to custom. you can imagine if it were a template, a very different scenario, i know you want to make a point. i am curious, though, you mentioned lgbtq+ people would be protected as well in terms of what your vision is and that they would not have to create things that they were opposed to as well. do you think that all members of the lgbtq+ community believe that your message is actually promoting what they stand for as well, taking a step back and saying, this is about free speech broadly. you keep focusing on the message, is that do you think the message is, that as long as you have lgbtq clients, as long as you are an artist, that you are allowed to not follow that particular law? >> i serve everyone. i cannot create every message. what the law is saying is that you have to speak a message that is approved by the

government. that should be concerning to all of us, everyone should be free to create unique expression, artwork, that is consistent with what they believe. that protects me, the lgbt website designer, no one should be forced to create a message that goes against their beliefs. whether those beliefs are similar to mine or different. >> so, there are people who are obviously married and in same-sex relationships, and i know that you want to jump in here of course, what do you say to the retort that says this is discrimination. you have a product, but you just do not want to sell it to me because i am a same-sex couple. >> because a product is not the same's speech, and public accommodation laws apply to millions of transactions every day, but what we are talking about asking someone to use their -- to put their head their hand and imagine and create a message using traditional blending art, that is speech, that is not just a product.

just as the lgbt designer does not want to have to celebrate pro--- a probable russian we -- should all have the freedom to decide what were ideas are worthy of expression. it is the what, not the who that is the critical distinction. we all can make message baked distinctions. the first message amendment has protected that for 100 years and should continue to do so for all of us. that is how we have a free and stable government, it is how we have free reasoning. the government cannot tell us what to say and to do. >> that seems to be, the idea of the who -- the idea of the what not the who. i do wonder, at what point can someone say i am an artist and not really -- my question is what is art? obviously i'm not disparaging your art form, i had a wedding website, i understand it is a whole thing. i know that you are an artist. but, what is to distinguish you saying, look, my macaroni and

cheese at this restaurant is a work of art. this pie is a work of art. the way that i make my clothing in this boutique is a work of art. i do not want somebody in here who is gay, who is black, jewish, disabled, what is the line that distinguishes you -- from the auspices of saying you are already, east doing the same thing. you have those concerns? >> i can only speak to myself and i made it clear that i have clients who identify as lgbt. what i am seeking is the court step in to protect everyone's right to break freely. the court has already determined these tests. every's free speech determines whether the speech or conduct. the laws will establish determine, that is a message being communicated, it's in a meeting that we are used to seeing, words test or graphic. if we are talking about some macaroni and cheese dish, that is not speech, and that isn't

easy call for the court to make. they have been making those calls for many, many years in the first amendment. >> you have not had a mac and she's, so you do not know what it says to you. but, i know we're out of time, but i want to hone in on this point. you've made this point several times about the idea of having lgbtq clients. have they expressed a reaction to what you are doing and are they supportive or not? >> well i've been in business for over a decade and i have had clients who identify as lgbt for quite some time. i think it is more to note that there are people across the spectrum who hold the same view as marriage, who hold a different view of marriage, who are standing up to support this case because they recognize that everyone should be free to communicate and beast consistent with what they believe. >> so you have created websites for your lgbt q clients? you've created work that is some how? -- >> i have clients who are lgbt

who are small business owners, realtors, and again when i receive a request i'm always looking at what messages are requested to create. it is something i'm passionate about and have expertise to create, and is it consistent with my faith? >> so i stopped short of the wedding? >> the state of colorado has made it clear that they will come after me and i'm asking the court to step in and make this right. >> last question to you, and that is where do things stand right now? obviously this is a case where people might say, hold, on why are we even here right now? this is not quite an issue, she is not entered a business yet, what is this about? i believe you are the attorney for the colorado baker, as well, in the past is that right? some would look at this and say, are you simply trying to use a client, an opportunity to re-litigate that particular case through this new medium? >> absolutely not.

in fact, lori's case was filed before the jack phillips case even went to the supreme court, and now that she has seen the punishment that has been imposed on him, he is in his tenth ear is litigation right now, colorado is the most aggressive state in this nation to enforce their law and impose fines and reeducation against like-minded speakers like lori. she has the right to go to court rather than violate the law and allow the state to prosecutor. that is what the justice system provides. >> we will see what happens. the supreme court is very quick, we are going to have an answer tomorrow. no, not at all. thank you for being a part of this conversation, it is important to hear what you are thinking and why. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> so what will the impact of this case b and how do you square americans rights to freedom of speech, religion, and freedom from discrimination. we will talk about that next.

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just heard -- it is gone all the way to the supreme court, the website designer who wants to start that business, repeat wants to start a, business to celebrate weddings, but does not want to work with same-sex couples in terms of a marriage website. just as we might be more

concerned, let's talk about now with ian middle highs are, new -- carey sheffield and chris geithner, editor and author. i'm not calling you one, but -- just so we are clear everyone. now look, it has been corroborated. but we just heard from the plaintiffs, i've been dying to speak with her to understand her position little more. one of the things that she said that it was interesting was that she was a champion in her case for lgbtq members, who thought that they might one day be create websites that were contrary to their own beliefs, and the idea of the free speech element being the ties that bind. what are your reactions to what you heard just now? >> i think that the case that we heard at the supreme court was a case to have an exception from nondiscrimination law and we do not do that under very

narrow circumstances, and this was a case that could potentially blow that open. >> just put a fine point on, those people are wondering, she is not in the wedding business yet, she does not have a wedding website business yet. the word yet problematic. how is it that a supreme court entertains more broadly that, look somebody is perspectively going to be affected by a particular law they have that level of standing that lawyers are like you do not have, standing you should not be here why is she able to get before the court? >> the honest answer is that she should not be before the court right now, maybe in a few years you will have a valid case, but this is not what federal courts do the weird thing about this case is that no one seems to actually disagree with her. colorado filed a brief that said we do not want to make you design a website that you do not want to make, you have a

first amendment right not to design a website that you do not want to make. the only thing colorado says that we -- if i get a couple comes along and wants to be the exact same website. literally the identical product, then they are anti-discrimination law would kick in? i do not think that is likely to happen. >> she says she is a custom web designer so that would not necessarily happen. >> so cases do not get to the supreme court with outstanding. so we have standing because the long arm of the government, in this case, the state of colorado has come in and said, you will be suppressed, your free speech will be suppressed. this is really what this is about, it is a first amendment issue. it is not just about lgbt issues, it is about any sort of issue. for example, if you had a baker who is a muslim baker, should they be compelled by the law form of government to put a muhammad cartoon? >> that is the issue, one of the many analogies.

well so in terms of shooter jewish baker, for example, be forced to have we some kind of embroidery, or on a cake, that would be a neo-nazi symbol. i hear the analogy, but here is the other way of looking at. this they really were not talking in this court about the religious aspect of it. they were talking about the free speech, which you are talking about. i am wondering about that slippery stop, and one of the many analogies that we have been hearing today about where is the line? where does it stop? and at what point can someone say, oh, i am not a bigot, i am an artist so i can do what i want. >> this is the problem with his case, and it is why we have not seen cases like this before. we've had nondiscrimination laws for a long time and the problem with the argument that you have in the case and the what you saw today from justice jackson, justice -- and from justice hagan is this

idea, and justice just came out and said that one point, where is the line? the fact that there is not a clear line and christian wagner, you had her on and in response to questions that she got at the court, she made it clear that what that line is not clear. the truth is that, if you have this case decided the way that it looks like it is going to be decided, what is going to follow is people who have any number of arguments that what they are doing should be protected as a first amendment -- an expressive activity, and they do not believe that they should need to send a text message. >> i think that is what the constitution is for. the first amendment says that the government shall make no abridgement of -- >> hold on, i want to hear from

all of you. finish your point. >> what i'm hearing is that you are afraid of people getting free speech, and i just do not think that that is something that the fathers wanted to be afraid of, more than anybody should be afraid. if that is not what i heard him say, >> he and, the idea here of how this happened, let's play devils advocate for a second on this notion, and on the notion of, hold on this is a business owner, right? she wants to have discretion over what services she has to perform. how is she similar or different to say, a restaurant? it is an artist saying i do not want to do your portrait, i want to -- i want to say who, when, i want to say who not. >> so let's play this out. if she were to design a website, which she is not designed. if she were to design one and then the colorado government which, it has not done one, and

she said wait a second i have a first amendment right to not make any website that i do not want to make, she would be right. if all of those events played out, then she would win her case. none of those events have happened, and if she had she would win her case. what makes this different than our web restaurant is that website is actually speech. a website is a place where you put words on a scream. i write for a website, we that is protected by the first amendment. baking a cake is not free speech, macaroni and cheese is not free speech. jewelry, being a hairdresser, all these other services that go into a wedding. website, is speech. >> but it is expression, as a form of art. so how does that factor in? >> exactly, and that is -- she is not making widgets. she said that she has clients her lgbt, and they do other issues that are not specific to this issue. again, the government cannot compel speech. the supreme court has never ruled on this side of

suppressing artists, the supreme court has never ruled on the side of suppressing free speech. so this is why they are going to win. >> we do not disagree on that point. >> that they're gonna? when >> yeah. the problem here, and why we are having some of these difficult conversations is that there is no website. we do not know what to talk about. we are talking about these vague things because she has not made a website, and because they want this law. they want this cord to write this opinion, that will potentially have these follow-up cases. they have even said in court today, christian said that i might be coming back with a specialty baker. and then you are going to find out, we have been talking about all of these judges, you are going to have somebody who says i make very special macaroni and cheese. it is terrible.

i must have burned it was. [laughter] >> we're going to be in court, and you're gonna have a net pinyon pine reed o'connor down in texas, that this is expressive speech. this is exactly what they are trying to protect in that case, and so i'm going to say that you cannot be forced to do that. >> i'm going to tell you something -- >> i'm gonna say that marriage is not macaroni and cheese, and that is a pretty easy distinction to make. >> but macaroni and cheese is a website. -- >> i do not think so. >> i want to hear everyone, so let's not talk over each other. >> there is an easy distinction to be drawn. hear words on the website's speech. if she wants to make a website and if the colorado government, in the future, tells her that she has to make a website that she does not want. websites are unlike mac and

she's, they are unlike cake, they are all like all these other things. i do not think that there has to be a lot riding on this. i share chris's fear that with this supreme court in the republican majority that they are not going to draw a line in a sensible place, but there is a very sensible place to draw that line. websites or speech, macaroni and cheese is not. there was the dobbs decision that just as karen did intimate that he wanted to envision -- more broadly in same-sex marriage. so it is not as if this can be looked at clearly at a vacuum. i'm going to put on instagram my mac and cheese recipe, i might go to a restaurant right now. but don't worry, everyone is welcome tonight. everyone next, it is warnock versus walker, the final election of the mid term season is just hours away. plus, the largest active volcano, not the supreme court, but in the world is erupting and cnn is on the scene.

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brian kemp won by a healthy

margin, i think the bigger problem for conservative candidates, is looking at the ground game, because it's shifted since covid. we are now in election months, instead of election day. and conservatives are behind the times when it comes to that. they think that, we can make of the gas quickly show up en masse on election day, doesn't always materialize, so i think that's where some people are discouraged about, that saw him also be watching for the demographic shift, here within young african american and latino voters, there's been a marked shift towards the conservative movement, and i think that's really exciting. i think when you saw the failures stacey abrams, and are false claims of racial animus within the state of georgia apparatus, that's just not true. i would continue to watch this trend, and i would continue to push for policies -- >> on the idea of animus, karen, you know this as well, this was something that the georgia was a focus for a long time,

following 20, 20 the election discussions about covid-19, and how to shift. and mostly about whether or not there was a fake election, or fake election results, and a shifting of trying to codify, watch that which what there is no proof for. this is part of the reason why guy, camp and raffensperger are persona non grata. i wonder how using the see things right, now in terms of what you're looking ahead to for tomorrow's election. are you looking to see if there will be legal issues happening, what's your focus? >> honestly, my focus, is why people in both parties are not screaming for the mountain tops, as to how important this race is, for both parties. here is why, having worked in the senate, i think people must have gotten complacent on both, sides well the democrats 41, big deal, but a 50/50 senate, which is what it would be of herschel walker wins, means all committees are tied, herschel walker can go up the senate,

and make life miserable for president biden, that's a big one. number two is, senators are old, and that's the simple thing. >> to be clear, it is the oldest senate in american history right now, -- a third of them are over 70, five or six to them are over 80, they're not all necessarily around all the time, it's not getting sick or so on. you have one senator, out and it's two weeks of federal judges are not getting, it's critically important for both parties, and they ought to be putting -- now >> are gonna discuss just how old elliott williams thinks everybody's. just kidding, he wants to come back to cnn monday. when we come back in a moment, make sure to tune into cnn now, for the runoff between it herschel walker -- that starts tomorrow at 4 pm,

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join for free on the xfinity app. xfinity rewards. our thanks. your rewards. look, it's a chilly night for people in moore county north carolina, temperatures hovering in the mid 40s, and tens of thousands are without power. the result of woodlawn forsman officials are calling, intentional and targeted attacks on substations over this weekend. the power is not expected to be fully restored until thursday, north carolina's governor says it's essential to make sure that people are cared for, and the critical services are available. >> helping the, vulnerable people and places where they live, including adult care homes, it is a priority.

making sure that people are warm, as the night approaches, making sure people are cared, for making sure the critical services at hospitals, and law enforcement, and emergency management services are supported and available, all of that is crucial. >> the fbi is now joining the investigation, determining just to isn't responsible. joining me now, john miller, chief law enforcement analyst. i'm so glad you're here, today i was wondering what your opinion of this is. because, the idea of the vulnerability of our infrastructure -- things starting to a lot of people, think about how accessible, and just a pure breadth of these access points. now, it's interesting, we spend so much time focused on the

power grid and hugs vulnerable to potential cyberattacks, and here is a low tech high impact attack, which is just a shooter with a weapon, shutting two parts of two different substations, and country to blackout. it's remarkably similar to a 2013 case in california, just outside silicon valley, or somebody shot out 15 transformers, caused $17 million worth of damage. and that is a case that is still unsolved. but what we do know is we've seen a lot of traffic over neo-nazi channels, right wing violent extremist channels, ecoterrorist channels, calling out the vulnerability of the power grid, and calling for these attacks. >> you, now thinking about it it might be an odd thing about correlation, just the idea, of why would those particular groups being klein to something this, or discussions

surrounding it. there is a built-in appointee ages, talking about a correlation to electrical infrastructure, related vulnerabilities, and then of course, things like race riots, or things like exploiting what happens when the power is down, and there is not a recourse to be able to prevent and deter and stop. i'm wondering if there is a way, but the fbi or the dhs needs to do more to coordinate the chatter with the prevention. >> after the 2013 case, the government did a study, and then mandated the power companies. remember, critical infrastructure in america is held by private companies, not the government, so there are mandated to get, identify the most critical nodes, in the chain of the power business. and then make sure they met certain standards and security. if i listen to this quote from a 14 page document, put out by

right-wing extremist group, just in 2020, but said attacked the power grid, those stations are sitting ducks, where the prey, largely unprotected, often in remote areas, which is something this is this latest case is a pretty stark and example of. >> it's unbelievable to think about the vulnerability, to think about pictures and images of where it's located, i think a lot of people are having a bit of an eye-opening epiphany about where things are, and if that bolster knows about, it is some people know about it, i'll be curious to know who actually is responsible, and how to stop it in the future. nice talking to as well, john, always free insight. >> well, for the first time in 38 years, the world's largest active volcano, it's erupting on hawaii, and cnn is getting rare access. look at this. stay with us.

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mesmerizing site tonight, they are getting from hawaii's volcano zone, and make it even better, cnn's david culver went up in a helicopter, over the world's largest active volcano, here's his report. >> we are on the road before sunrise, quickly realizing, we can already spotter destination, some 30 miles out. there you see, it that red orange glow, mauna loa, erupting. >> to give you a better view, though, we go up in the morning dark. paradise, helicopters darren hamilton, our pilot and guide, but giving us rare access. >> we'll know when we have dislocated.

-- >> having flown in military hudson's, darren admits this is firepower like no other. >> i was like the first time? >> but it was a blast. >> it can also be challenging, especially with heavy vlog, we're volcanic smog. >> you can see the gases from this debris. >> those acidic gases, dangerous if the concentration levels are too high. >> on the ground, officials are closely watching the impact on the saddle road. >> erupting last sunday, for the first time in 38 years, mauna loa, the world's largest active volcano, as one of five the makeup hawaii's big island, it's not the only one currently erupting. -- >> all right compatriot, which is where my houses, that and it's that way on the opposite side of the subdivision.

>> she invited us to wear her home now sits,, you can see a streetlight fused with a rock, four years a day after he did this to the state community, she still walks it as if she's on her new street with her new neighbors. >> basically they're all's dispersed after that. >> yeah, we lost that community is what we lost, in addition of the homes. >> mauna loa's eruption, an emotional trigger -- the 2018 lava flow, wiped out more than 600 homes here some and he touched, but left lie level off to an island with an island, dorothy showed us this video she made over the last few weeks -- helping residents collect the remains of their home, the wreckage here are hard to miss. >> this is their home, they evacuated the second, night i think about under the third night. >> i just took their home.

>> and four years later it's still steaming? >> still stealing. >> and how long will it stay like that? >> probably 30 to 40 years. >> how is it that you can still see beauty after so much loss? >> because love is beautiful. it's pale east grayson, that's a valid was formed, how they i island was built. >> -- and thousands of tourists and locals, arriving past sunset, just to witness the lava glow. nighttime traffic backs up for miles, to avoid the congestion, let's get back to the skies. >> as 2000 degrees fahrenheit, or about 1000 degrees celsius. it's molten rock, flowing like water. >> which is already -- a seeing slice right through it.

>> you can see a current of lava. >> therein estimates it's moving 30 to 40 miles per hour. >> and that's it, all it is nothing like this, just feeling from the top. >> really just incredible experience, laura, and as you saw this piece, it is moving much faster, 30 to 40 miles per hour, according to darren, that was his estimate. it's a lot slower, because it's fanning, out that's about 25 feet per hour, according to officials. still, though, it's inching closer to that main highway, currently about two miles away from, it so it is concerning, and something we're closely watching, laura. >> david, thank you so much for your reporting, really fascinating stuff. and look, there's also been days sounds from a lot of republicans, equally fascinating, until today. >> gop lawmakers, forced to confront donald trump's call to now terminate the constitution,

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