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has been named. the house -- january 6th committee of the house is weighing charges to recommend him another of his closest allies. in a moment, committee member adam schiff joins us. but first, cnn's pamela brown to set the stage. what is the latest, pamela, that we know about possible criminal referrals by the january 6th committee? >> well, i just got off the phone with a source tonight familiar with the deliberations, anderson, i am told that the intent for the committee is by the end of this week they will have made the final decisions on criminal referrals. and the people that they are looking at include the former president, donald trump, and his allies. , now i am told by this source that they're only looking at people who may be under investigation by the doj but have not been prosecuted, have not faced charges. so this week is gonna be a very busy week for the committee as they go over various names and deliberate on these criminal referrals. and again, as part of these deliberations, including the former president. >> the department of justice special counsel jack smith has sent grandeur east penn is to

local officials in wisconsin, michigan, arizona. as investigative whether former president analysis to overturn the election in 2020. is it clear precisely what those subpoenas obtained to exactly? >> what we are told by sources, what they pertain to our our communications between trump, the trump campaign, and local officials on the ground in these three states. arizona, wisconsin, and michigan. and the focus primarily appears to be over efforts to interfere in the 2020 election results and stop certification of the results where biden won. and so that appears to be a big focus of jack smith, the special counsel. and it just gives us a window into what his focus is on as he is now the special counsel. and it seems to be an aggressive step to then revisit this and more subpoenas. there already been subpoenas sent prior to some of these officials, now jack smith going step further here. >> and smith is involved with the mar-a-lago documents case

as. is it clear how today's newly-revealed discoveries -- some more classified documents might impact that case? >> it's not. i mean, it is significant that people overseen by the trump team search this florida store unit and three other locations in the storage unit found two documents with classified markings. we don't know anything more than that in terms of exactly what these documents were. but of course it would be of interest to the justice department as they investigate the former presidents mishandling of classified information. and how these documents ended up in the storage unit. as you will recall, trump's lawyers have attested to the doj signing a form saying, look, we have handed everything over. and now we are learning that these two documents -- when the storage unit. i will note, though, that trump spokesperson stephen chung's saying that they are being fully cooperative and transparent, federal fischel, anderson. >> pamela brown, appreciate, thanks. to the question now the former presidents larger troubles. there was this today from house elect committee adam schiff about their decision to

consider criminal referrals to the justice department. >> the facts support a potential charge against the former president. the justice department -- in my view, needs to hold everyone equally responsible before the law. congressman schiff, also chair of the house intelligence may joins me now talk about this. and the latest turn in the classified documents case. congressman schiff, i'm wondering what your reaction is to, first of, all the discovery of more documents, and with classified markings being found in the storage you don't belong to the former president. >> well the case against former president just gets worse horse to mars. you have the archives asking four the documents, not getting them, not getting -- fbi subpoenaing. you have a search warrant conducted and they still didn't get them all. and the trump council apparently representing that they had done a diligent search. they had turned them all over one that was not the case. and we continue to find that that's not the case. as more documentand as the chait

scares the heck out of me to think about what other documents could be floating around any trump residents or anywhere else. you know, one final point, anderson. notwithstanding the trump representation, council representation that they are fully cooperating. it sounds like they had to be forced to do this by the judge of the case. or those documents would not even recover. >> turning now to the select committee's investigation, do you support a criminal referral of the former president for the department of justice. we heard you tell npr you think a potential charges warranted. >> well, let me touch on really, anderson. because we haven't announced our decision yet. but look, i think that congress, when it sees evidence of criminality, particularly affecting the institution congress has a responsibility. we generally make referrals whether there is a perjury case, a witness before congress, or when it refused to show before congress. here there was an attack on congress, so to me that goes right to the heart of our responsibilities. and so we are weighing.

that we are gonna be -- announcing our decision to report very soon. i'm so i think there is also a high degree of consensus among our members. i know there were some earlier reporting that members were at odds with each other. i've never seen that on this issue i think we have been very consistent all along interviews. in our view's. >> so you say very soon, what does that mean? >> well, you know, we intend to conclude all of our work including initiation of the report before the end of this year. so that means this month. precisely when this month, i'm not at liberty to say. but we are speeding to put the pen down, to finish our writing. and that day is coming up very soon. >> so there is a special counsel, jack smith, as you know, he has been conducting then investigation out to january 6th. he has subpoenaed it -- communications with the former president and his campaign. at this point, do you believe the special counsel knows everything that your committee does, have you turned over everything to him yet? >> no.

i don't think they know everything that we know. you know, i can't go into detail of what we have provided about, but they will be getting everything, indeed, the public will be getting the body of our evidence as well. and i think, anderson, watching this, the serving of these subpoenas recently. it tells us a couple of things. it tells us that the special counsel is moving swiftly. i also expect, though, that because the doj policy prevents the department from overtly doing things in the run up to an election, that a lot of the groundwork for what we just have seen. the serving of these subpoenas was probably laid even before the special counsel took over. but now that the midterms are behind us, they can go forward with these avert steps into the investigation. and i think we will see more. >> why wouldn't the committee just have shared everything that they had when they had it with, you know, investigators. people who can actually bring charges.

>> well, first of all, in many cases we were way ahead of the justice department. my feeling is that we shouldn't even -- lack of urgency that they were. but the fact that -- >> but wouldn't it have helped if you had gotten into shared information with greater alacrity? >> not if the effect of that was to discourage witnesses from coming before congress or had any impact on our investigation. i think our investigation really did have the effect of stimulating the just about right to get moving, and get moving on more than just the people who engaged in the violence against the police officers in the capitol that day as significant as it was. but we also have an institutional interest. we want them to be successful. we are gonna help them be successful. but it is just not the way that congress or the executive branch operates, where one branch says to the other, give us all your files. we don't say that to the justice department --

but we are making sure that we are getting what they need, and we want to do that to the degree of the remaining information as soon as possible. >> congressman mccarthy has threatened to kick you off the intelligence committee if he becomes speaker when republicans take control of the house. what will that mean for you? you would essentially have no recourse. isn't that correct? >> you know, they could probably force me off the committee if they choose to do it. what we are seeing is kevin mccarthy -- basically doing what marjorie taylor greene wants him to do. she wants him to have a retaliation for being removed because she was, you know, inciting violence against her colleagues. but more than, that, look i have held their feet to their fire, including the former president. and they want me to continue doing it. but i've got news for, them i need to continue doing it and whatever committee i serve on. and so they will do what they need to do. but far more consequences,

anderson, whether they take me off the committee is what will they do if we have a close presidential election in two years. will they try to do what they did before? and that is overturn the election if they lose. to me, whether i serve on this committee or that is a far less significant step. and what they can do to injure our democracy in the meantime. >> congressman schiff, i appreciate your time, thank you. >> thank you. >> next, on the heels of a far better than expected midterm election for democrats, the question president biden and frankly -- for that on the question of his age, of course. later, the rates in germany targeting suspected members of a far-right group. the arrests that were made, and the plans authorities say the group had to try to overthrow the german government. your dedicated advisor will help you create a comprehensive wealth plan for your full financial picture. with the right balance of risk and reward. so you can enjoy more of...this. this is the planning effect. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis persists... put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable,...

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>> president biden recently celebrated his 80th birthday quietly, fair, not's age is an issue because he may run for a second term. even more sent out of the new york times has reported that first lady jill biden told french president macron at the

white house state dinner last night that she and the president already for his reelection campaign. here to talk about, a democratic strategist and cnn political compare paul begala, also cnn analyst david gergen whose career advising presidents going goes back to the nixon administration. and cnn politics sunday anchor abby phillips. i should say the state dinner was last week, i apologize. paul, if the president does run in 2024 and wins reelection, he would be 82 when he takes the oath for a second term. how much, in your view, should voters be concerned about his age? >> if they are, they are. he cannot change that. i think he has done a very good job. he's probably done more into years than someone half as age could've done in four. and i think that's what he's got to do. he's gotta say just look at the scoreboard how did i do. and of course, david worked for ronald reagan. we all remember that. everybody thought he was too old. and two years, right after his midterm, 60% of american thought reagan should not run. and he carried 49 states. so, i think people should take it in. by the way, chuck grassley just

got elected in iowa, who is 89. and he won by 12 points. so i don't think people see age as disqualifying right now. >> david gergen, what do you think of that? >> i think a lot of americans see it as, quote, both disqualifying. and they worried about it. i think paul is right. the pendulum has swung now. i think the dynamics of the rate of change in the last few days with the midterm election. before the midterms, it was clear that joe biden was going to be under a lot of quiet pressure from within the democratic party not to run. and people -- election results in the midterm had been bad, he probably would not have done it. but the midterms really helped him. they transform the race, best midterm elections for any president in 20 years. and they make it much more likely he is going to run and very broadly, that the democratic establishment will rally around him. i think the arguments over age will probably subside a good deal in the weeks to come, anderson. we'll have to see if there's

other things that will come along. and if he has a gaffe or a series of gas, that sort of thing. he could go backwards. but i think tonight, as of this moment tonight, he is doing well. and i think he is celebrating and moving forward based on what paul begala just said about how well his presence is going. >> abby, is there consensus among washington democrats about whether the president should run again? >> i think that both paul and david are right. there is an emerging consensus. i think a lot of democrats believe biden is perhaps at the strongest position politically that he has been since he won beating donald trump in 2020. and the midterm elections have a huge amount to do with that. you are hearing more and more, even biden's own most staunch critics, of this generational argument they have been making, starting to say, well you, know, he's done a good job so far and if he, runs i will lead back at him.

maybe i want someone else from another generation. but so far, that person has not emerged. the one complication to all of this is i think democrats feel most strongly about this if biden is running against donald trump. if that person on the republican side is someone else, someone who is younger, who does represent a changing of the guard on the republican side, i think you might start to see a little bit more consternation. if we are talking about a ron desantis, for someone else, nikki haley, it changes the dynamic both for biden and for his party. but for now, i am hearing way more contentment, frankly, with the status quo on the democratic side that i've heard at any point since biden was elected. >> david, how much i have the president chances for reelection in your view hinge on the economy. >> a lot, and there's a general consensus among experts, economic types, that we are very likely going to have a

recession in this coming year. i think that is when he won the variables, like gas prices. biden said his numbers went up and went down, how expensive gasoline was. that is going to be -- true in spades if we have a serious recession. yes, it's one of the things that could imperil his presidency. but right now, right now he's riding the wave that -- it is very positive. >> paul, there's a lot of talk about vice president harris running if biden doesn't run. is there any reason to think she would clear the primary field or what is a snowy of democratic challengers? >> she would face a dozen or more. there's no way she would clear the field. i can't recall a time when a current or former vice president sought their party's nomination didn't get. so she, would be a front runner. but believing, you will be ten or 20 democrats flooding the field. but i don't think it's going to happen. one the most remarkable things about this midterm, anderson, at the time when everybody is upset -- it's great time to be an incumbent and then it happened. 96% of governors who sought

reelection won. 97% of house members who saw sought reelection won. one hunted percent of senators. this never happened in american history, over 100% of sanders who sought reelection one. i think what it, is not, sure i could be wrong, i think in a time a turmoil like this, they want stability that voters do want. abby is right about the status quo. they want stability. and the fact that biden is old and experience maybe a good thing, especially down from if donald trump is the opponent. >> -- , abby, if president biden doesn't run, how messy could it be for democrats to unify behind the first woman, first woman of color, vice president? >> if biden does not run? >> yeah. >> look, i think that there are a lot of people waiting in the wings here. it is not going to be an easy clearing of the field. one of the factors is that vice president harris ran before in 2020. and he left the race before any

votes were cast in that primary. so, i think a lot of other democrats will be looking at that and saying, we have as much of a shot as anyone else. but also, remember, biden is now setting up a change of the primary calendar for the next presidential cycle. if he does not run, that primary calendar that he wants to have, which would put south carolina first and push georgia in the top five states and michigan in the top five states would help a kamala harris and it would help a candid of color. so, i think that's a huge factor. >> yeah, david gergen, paul begala, abby philip. appreciate it. -- coming, up the attack that nearly crippled -- north carolina county. zeroing in on two possible motives. details from north carolina are next. also, german officials arrest more than two dozen people for what they say was a plot with ties to qanon to overturn the government in germany.

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♪ ♪ ♪ >> days after electric substations was attacked, the same power company, duke energy, tonight is your shots reporting fired nearly another station. this time in south carolina. duke energy says they're working with the fbi, and that there are no reports of anyone i'm, nor powell had it is over property damage. again, this happening days after attack on this two substations in north carolina county. curfew and state of emergency curfew and state of emergency there will be rescinded tomorrow morning, tens of thousands were initially without power, tonight, north carolina officials are offering up to $75,000 for information leading to the arrest of anyone involved. sources tell cnn that investigators are zeroing in on two possible motives, they have uncovered new clues. cnn's whitney wild joins me now with the latest from north carolina. >> whitney, it seems investigators are focused on two possible motives around extremist behavior. what exactly are they looking at? >> well, anderson,

investigators are looking at two threats. the first involves caused by domestic violent extremists on social media, on internet platforms. calling for attacks on critical infrastructure. that is the first threat. the second threat, law enforcement is looking at this, a series of recent disruptions to lgbtq events around the country. on saturday, they're very time the power went out here, there was a local drag show. police have not said that there was a specific connection between these two events. but they are looking at that correlation here, the similar timing in the greater context of these disruptions all around the country to similar lgbtq events. anderson. >> what investigators found the scene? >> well, anderson, law enforcement is found around 24 shell casings here. that is according to law enforcement. sources telling my colleague john miller what evidence was collected here. and that's really critical for two reasons. the first is because that can help investigators figure out where the shooter was at the time of the shooting. and on the second reason is

because those shell casings have a unique marking that is specific to the firearm used. so when federal officials won those shell casings into a national database, they can try to figure out if those shell casings connect to any specific weapon that was used in another shooting, that has since been entered into the database. and what is important understand, anderson, is that is not just localized here. they can run that ballistic evidence all across the country. unfortunately, the high powered rifle, the heat of that rifle, because it is so powerful, burned off the dna. so not much evidence there. but the shell casings, anderson, are very critical. >> officials said that whoever fired substations knew exactly what they were doing, because they knew what pieces of equipment to target. does that help narrow down the list of potential suspects at all? >> it certainly might. at a minimum, it gives enforcement a place to start. what they are trying to do now is basically build this from the ground up. and so they are looking at any possible feed, any information they can build that they can use to build a profile here of the possible shooter is

critical. law enforcement certainly trying to appeal to the public, the fbi is putting on a poster tonight asking the public for more information, they are really leaning on the public, anderson. and as more evidence of that, local officials, state officials, county officials here are offering it up to 75,000 dollar reward leading to the arrest of this person. >> all right, whitney wild, appreciate it, thanks. now in germany, officials there are on the mission to combat extremism. this, morning thousands a police officer took part in raids to arrest a qanon inspired terror group. 25 people arrested, and another 27 suspects being sought. prosecutors say the group had active plans to try and overthrow the government in germany. the white house praised the arrest. cnn's fred pleitgen has more. >> the rate started in the early morning hours. several thousand police officers searching dozens of locations across germany, including the castle -- , home of the alleged ringleader, who prosecutors say

uses the title prince -- of the royal house of -- cnn has tried reaching out to -- the eight but it's not clear if he has a legal representative. >> translator: based on current findings, the suspected terrorist group uncovered today was founded based on coup d'état fantasies and conspiracy ideologies, germany's interior minister said. the group is called -- or citizens of the reich, and the alleged plotters were trying to overthrow the german government and install a monarchy with the prince at the helm, german authorities say. >> militant reichsbuerger are united by the hatred for democracy, for a state, and four people who support our community, the interior minister said. conspiracy theorists have a massive following in germany. and i was 2020, tens of thousands, including qanon followers and right-wing extremists took to the streets of berlin for praising russian

leader vladimir putin and u.s. president donald trump. >> you like donald trump? >> yes. >> why? >> the deep state have long time manipulated the people, the human, and that must end. >> the crowd tried to storm german parliament that day, similar to the insurrection in the u.s. on january 6th, 2021. crowds ransacking the capitol with members of the oath keepers militia group playing a key role in the violence. that's another parallel to the alleged coup in germany. the reichsbuerger two had established a so-called military arm, german prosecutors say. >> this military arm aims to set up a new german army federal prosecutors said, consisting of homeland security units yet to be built, according to our information, individual members at this

military arm were in the past active in the german armed forces. several suspects were flown to the federal prosecutors office by police helicopters, an indication of just how serious german authorities are taking this attack on their democracy. >> and anderson, the german authorities are coming out tonight saying they've actually been observing this coup for months now. and they say the moment for them came when they realize realized they had to act was when the members of this group were no longer only talk about setting up shadow ministries and councils, but war actually forming what they called a military arm of this group. and there are people who were legally arming themselves, some also illegally as well. the german government now it is treating this is extremely high profile case. we saw there is some of the the suspects beings shown -- flown with shoppers to the central prosecutor's office, the german government says that for them this is state terrorism and they are going to find it is hard as they can. anderson? >> fred pleitgen, reporting.

-- phil mudd, senior -- disguise calling himself a prince. this guy is inspired by qanon and the former president and the attack on january 6th. i mean, why do you think -- does this just strike you as just really strange? >> no, actually, i would disagree with you. it does not look bizarre to me. look, in the age of social media, when people can communicate across continents. we see a wave of people in this country, as you know, election deniers and people on the far-right talking about things like the deep state in this country. it's become part of a dialogue in america, a political dialogue that to you without of imagine six, seven, eight years ago. if you said deep state to me several years ago i would say i don't know your talk about. so what is not only fringe, but no known years ago has become part of a common political parlance. and clearly, i think unsurprisingly a certain percentage of people who believe that are going to believe that the only solution is violence, is just a numbers game. and i'm not surprised there are a lot of people communicating on the internet who believe the stuff.

>> i mean, i guess i should not be surprised either. because, qanon which we've done a lot of reporting on is based on age-old antisemitic anti catholic tropes. that have been used in germany and elsewhere for centuries. >> yeah, and part of this is validation. again, going back to the internet, you're going to have a number of people who believe, for example, immigrants are bad, who believe muslims are bad, who believe certain other religions are bad and do not like homosexuals, don't like lesbians. one of the things the internet does is allow people to gather in groups virtually to validate those beliefs in ways they can not a validated 30 years ago. so, you find someone in this country, one state, away who believes the same thing, and you start to build a sense that you're right. the same thing that i suspect is happening in this germany case, where they're looking at, they arrested 25. but they're looking at at least 50 plus. that is incredible. >> according to a german public broadcaster, a former far-right member of germany'of parliamenta

judge was now involved. i was having current or former members of government sympathetic to these ideologies complicate investigations? >> boy, this gets really sensitive and we're going to see this again. there is a parallel in the united states. that is, if you ask one question, is it appropriate for the fbi and the others to investigate domestic extremist groups that want to practice an act of violence. you would say of course that's what the fbi does. let me change the question before we go back to the president trump's rally before the insurrection and say is it appropriate for the fbi to have informants at political rallies for members of congress. you would say, boy, that makes me really uncomfortable. but wait a minute. the qanon people are going to political rallies and they may be considering an act of violence. what i'm saying is you're seeing it intersection between investigations and politics, and that's gonna make some members of congress, i think, uncomfortable. >> yeah, phil mudd, appreciate it.

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>> new tonight, cnn is learning

ukrainian officials and lawmakers -- biden's ration congress to give ukrainian military cluster munition warheads. the weapons are banned by more than 100 countries. russia continues to use them with devastating effect on ukraine. this video from april in kharkiv. the request from the ukrainians is one of the most controversial once they've made to the u.s. since the war began. tonight, and another cnn exclusive, we are seeing some of the most damning affects of russia's relentless attacks. cnn's sam kiley takes us inside a hospital on the front lines. >> wartime brain surgery in tandem. we did in battle on the same day on the same front, two young man, the focus of these over practiced neurosurgeons. kramatorsk is often bought. the windows often in here are taped to slow flying glass. the effort is intends to repair brains, to save lives, memories, loves, and future dreams.

they would have little idea where to start their delicate work if they do not have use of this ct scanner. it can pinpoint damage, find what it has done, and it gives surgeons a plan of action. he says, yes, and unfortunately, there is no left eye. there is a suspicion of damage to the right eye as well. but definitely no left eye. >> this is the fourth patient we've seen in the space of about an hour come in for a ct scan. it is supposed to be doing 15 or 20 a day. they're actually doing 30 or 80. it is shortly wearing out. >> this equipment is vital. the hospital cannot afford a new one. but i eat one for sale and western ukraine cost about $120,000. the price of losing this one, incalculable. >> [speaking non-english] >> he says he shows --

acute subdural -- acute hematoma and severe contusion. he needs urgent surgery. the administrators here have raised about $60,000. they need help with the rest. this is the only ct scanner and a vast region. critical, this machine is critical. ct is critical to providing appropriate care for patients with both head wounds and acute brain injuries. >> is it saving lives? >> definitely, absolutely, 100%. >> there's been a steady flow of soldiers injured near bakhmut. that is the scene of the heaviest fighting. this is a hospital that is trying to deal really with the area they say is 300 square kilometers and. a lot of that is at war. >> some soldiers are relatively lucky this man was shooting mortars at the russians, who shot mortars back. >> [speaking non-english] >> my commander was lucky. he sat in front of me, and i

sat behind him. and he was unhurt. i got hit in the leg. but yeah, we have seen wounded and dead before but i am sitting here, i am lucky. ukrainians on this eastern front call it the meat grinder. jack was alongside -- when they were hit. >> how would you describe the battle for bakhmut? >> [speaking non-english] >> he said world war i, trenches, mud, blood, trenches, mud again, trenches, artillery warfare. that's it, world war i, world war ii. verdun, the somme, something like that. the difference is that modern weapons are now more powerful. modern surgery, often the only route for survival. that, and old-fashioned great. >> sam, did the doctors you spoke to express concerns for their own lives, working so

close to the front lines? >> the amazing thing, anderson, is that all the medical staff that i've met, even on relatively close frontline here in kramatorsk, very much closer in the past in bakhmut, i have never heard a medic complain about the danger that they are in, not even those who are racing to the front lines to collect those wounded soldiers. a lot of those soldiers are brought in by unpaid volunteers with relatively limited medical training, who go physically to the front lines collect the wounded, put them in a van or ambulance, and then race them to hospitals. now, i have never heard anybody ever referred to the danger they were in, anderson. >> surely that is incredible that the ukrainian military in some cases does not have the capabilities of evacuating wounded and civilians. it's civilians going in with their own vehicles and pulling soldiers out and getting them to medical triage? >> yeah, i mean, they are volunteer. they are recognized by the

military. they are sanctioned by the military. but they are people who stepped up to take on that role because the military is focused elsewhere. of there are of course military medics as well. and all of the people you saw operating there on the soldiers they were under military command. most of them are medics in the military themselves. but as you know anderson from your own experiences here there is a huge volunteer sector, not only on the front line of people actually fighting but also helping out. particularly people with medical backgrounds of people who don't want to fight or kill necessarily but do want to do their bit. and there is an enormous network of people like that working right across ukraine, anderson. >> yeah, everybody. involve sam kiley, thank you so. much i want to talk now with cnn military analyst and retired army lieutenant mark general hertling can you tell -- workers in to get wounded soldiers away from the front lines and getting the medical

tension and time to save their lives? because obviously that golden hour is critical. >> yeah, the golden hour is critical, anderson. and what i will tell you is it is a process. you know, the first thing that normally happens is what is called a buddy aid. if it isn't a good unit, you also have something called combat lifesavers, which our soldiers who have been trained in advanced medical techniques. and then it goes to a medic which kind of does a triage to see what kind of conditions you are in, saving your life, getting the blood flow going making sure you are getting an airway that's clear. and then of the medic can't and then if the medic can't handle it, they medivac you either by helicopter around and goes back to an aid station. if it's even more catastrophic and you have to have surgery, then those medevacs usually take you back further to the rear to a place called a combat support hospital. i have explained all of, that because this is a technique the u.s. army uses we have train the ukrainian army to do that. there are body aides and their combat lifesavers and there are medics, all with a kind of advanced kit you need to treat

wound, including tourniquet and bandages. but they also have ambulances. our friend scott kelly, the astronaut, has donated a bunch of analysts to ukraine to make sure that golden hours complete. i saw the same kind of approach used by the russian, or attempted to be used by the russian army. they do not have the by the aid. their medics are poorly trained. and it's very difficult to go the long distances back to their combat support hospital, where they treat traumatize soldiers. >> you and i talked about this early on in the war in ukraine. it seems like not ideal conditions, but conditions for treating wounded soldiers in this war seem to favor ukraine over russia. >> yes, certainly does. the only big difference, truthfully, between ukrainian army and the u.s. army is there is the emphasis in our army placed an aerial medevaced, to getting soldiers that were wounded out of the battlefield on helicopters. and this helicopter pilots are trained. they have medics on board.

they treat the soldiers when they get on board the helicopter on the way back to the hospital. ukraine does not have as many helicopters as we do, certainly. so, they are relying on the ground ambulance movement, which certainly affects the golden hour, as you can imagine. >> cnn sources, i have told ukrainian officials and -- biden and members of congress try to provide the grainy military with costing mission warheads, weapons that are banned by more than 100 countries. i'm wondering what your thoughts are. >> yeah, well, first of all you have to kind of describe what these munitions are. they are some type of either artillery shell, bomb delivered by an aircraft, or a missile that holds anywhere between 40 to sometimes close to over 1000 small bomb lets. they are about the size of a coke can it's the equivalent of a hand grenade. what happens is those bomblets disperse overhead over a unit. bomblets dropped out of a shell, and are dispersed over a very wide area.

and they drop, truthfully anderson, like hand grenades. in our army, we call them dpicm, it stands for dual purpose improve conventional munition. what happens is if it hits a vehicle it has a sheep charge, the kind of anti-armor charge that will go through metal. if it hits the ground, it has like a fragmentation charge, much like a hand grenade. so, it can affect both equipment and personnel over a very wide area. they are effective. but what i would say is they were banned by more than 100 countries over the conventions on cluster munitions. i think is back in 2008, i'm not sure of the year, i may be wrong. but they are very dangerous in many cases. because if they do not explode, they are left on the battlefield. children, civilians, can come along and pick them up. they don't know what they are. they literally look like a coke can. and they can explode. so, it causes dangerous to civilian populations.

there is very much a pro and con on these kinds of munitions. >> general hertling, i appreciate it. >> thanks anderson. >> coming up, we remember pearl harbor, 81 years later. the last two living survivors on the attack of the uss arizona recalls that day when we come back. my dad was a hard worker. he used to do side jobs installing windows, charging something like a hundred bucks a window when other guys were charging four to five-hundred bucks. he just didn't wanna do that. he was proud of the price he was charging. ♪ my dad instilled in me, always put the people before the money. be proud of offering a good product at a fair price. i think he'd be extremely proud of me, yeah. ♪

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bombing. but the damage to the arizona was severe. >> the arizona sank, of course, in that attack. other ceremonies took place today at the friends of the national world war ii memorial in washington and the retired uss intrepid in new york. for the remaining pearl harbor survivors,, many enjoyed full lives, and still are. 104-year-old frank ermond is one example. he played the french horn. he is going to play the morning colors on that day of infamy. this is him last month, breaking his own guinness world record, as the world's oldest conductor. here is leading the u.s. air force band. [applause] >> and a standing ovation. we congratulate frank and thank all of those who served his

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>> good evening everyone. i'm alisyn camerota. >> and i'm laura coates, and this is cnn tonight. and look, the georgia election might just be a big nail in the coffin of donald trump's political aspirations, either's handpicked candidate, herschel walker, was defeated by democratic senator raphael warnock. the question is have the fever broken, as members of his own party are now abandoning him? >> as you know, laura, republicans are in the throes of a georgia election autopsy. tonight, they are reconsidering their opposition to mail-in voting and early voting.