good evening, everyone. i'm laura coates. >> and i'm alisyn camerota. this is "cnn tonight." brittney griner is on her way home tonight flying halfway around the world from moscow to san antonio. the olympic gold medalist and

wnba star was released early this morning from russian detention in exchange for a russian arms dealer known as the merchant of death, but the prisoner swap left american paul whelan behind in russia where he's been detained for nearly four years. >> in just a moment i'll talk to the press secretary, i'll ask her about those who say the negotiations failed because paul whelan was left behind and whether expanded anti-lgbtq laws in russia added to concern over brittney griner's detention. also first on cnn four high profile trump allies could face criminal referral from the january 6th committee, so we'll tell you who they are and what that would mean. >> a lot to talk about tonight for sure, but the big news is the release of brittney griner after 294 days of wrongful detention in russia. joining me now white house press secretary. thank you for taking the time after a very long day to join us this evening.

i appreciate it. >> thank you so much, laura, for having me on today. you're right, it's been a very long day but i'm happy to be here with you. >> especially about a day like today most people woke up to the news that brittney griner had been freed, and there was a range of emotion. there was concerns obviously for the families of those who have not had that success diplomatically, but there's also elation for those who have been waiting for this day not the least of which for the loved ones of bg, which she's known. i wonder what you say to those that this may have been perceived as a failed negotiation because it did include paul whelan? >> let me just first say, laura, these decisions the president makes day in and day out and this particular decision is not an easy one. he does not make these decisions lightly. he believed there was an opportunity to bring brittney griner home, and he took that

opportunity. and so that is something that he wants american people to understand. look, the options that we were given is either we bring one american home which is brittney griner or we bring none. and so the president took that -- made that decision to bring home brittney griner. look, here's the thing. the president has promised since the beginning of his administration that he would do everything that he can to bring american citizens who are being wrongfully detained abroad. and he has kept that promise, and he's brought home as we saw back in april trevor reed, today brittney griner, and he understands and actually said that this morning when he spoke to the american people with cherelle by his side and the vice president by his side. he said he understands this moment today is incredibly difficult for the whelan family, and he is going to keep his promise, he's going to do everything that he can to bring paul home, to secure his release as well. but one last piece i want to say

is that it was the last -- within the last several weeks we realized that russia was willing to do a -- to secure, to negotiate for brittney's release. but they were not willing to do that for paul. they were not negotiating in good faith, and they had categorized paul very differently. they have falsely, illegitimately charged him with -- you know, with charges that we believe were false. and so because of that they were not willing to negotiate for him at this time. but, again, we're still in conversation. we are going to do everything that we can to bring paul home, and that is a promise that the president has made. >> well, certainly the famole of paul whelan and others are hoping for that very result. i do wonder, you know, the issue you describe, the idea what it takes to have a good faith negotiation and really the bargaining power comes down oftentimes as you can imagine to leverage, and many people are wondering there's nee reporting

about what you're talking about, the idea of trying to do all that you can to bring him and others home. what might be the process now in terms of a shift in the leverage, the idea that victor bout has now win in that prisoner exchange, i know john kirby never spoke about bout being the bargaining chip, but i wonder what leverage the united states has to try to compel that good faith bargaining and good faith negotiation by russia. >> and i understand that's a very good question to ask, but as you can imagine we have to be really careful here because we are currently continuing trying to have those negotiations, continuing to try and secure paul's safe return so don't want to lay that out or any conversations that are happening as it relates to paul. but i can say this. i just mentioned trevor reed, that the president was able to get released back in april. there's been about a dozen more from different countries of

americans who were wrongfully detained, held hostage abroad in his administration that he has been able to get released. so this is a priority for the president. this is a priority, and he wants people to know -- he wants the american people to know this is an imperative for him to bring americans home who are wrongfully detained. can't get into negotiations and negotiating in public, but, again, we have seen the -- what the president has been able to do, his administration has been able to do in successes in getting folks released. but, again, not going to get into details on this. >> i understand the diplomatic prudence completely. i'm glad you were able to address it. i do want to focus on the person released today and that is brittney griner. earlier this week president putin actually signed into law even harsher legislation that was anti-lgbtq in russia. she obviously is an american, but she also has fallen into a demographic within russia where

she would have been marginalized, maybe even targeted as a black woman, as a member of the lgbtq community. her release certainly probable contemplated what the circumstances were like for her there. can you speak to the personal aspect of what it is like for this particular person to have been brought home knowing what she must have been facing. and i note in just a very few clips we have of her even crossing that tarmac it appears even her dreadlocks have been taken off, have been cut off. i'm wondering just the holistic nature of it all, what is your personal reaction to what you have seen? >> my personal reaction, look, we are -- i am thrilled, we are thrilled. i am proud of this president, proud to be working in this administration, and the work that the president continues to do to get americans home, continues to do to make sure that we are safe, that we are well-represented, and that he

works day in and out thinking about the american people. that's why i do this job. that's why many of us do this job. you know, when brittney is ready we're going to give her the space and we're going to make sure that she has everything that she needs to get back on her feet, offering any mental -- mental health services or any, you know, physical health services that she may need to kind of reengage, get back into society. we're going to give her and her family that time. as you know she's on her way to the states and will be landing in the next few hours. when she's ready to tell her story, you know, we'll be happy to hear it. certainly not going to speak to her personal experiences, but for us, for me today is a very good day. and we are going to keep -- the president is going to keep fighting for other americans who are wrongfully detained. >> thank you so much for your time. >> thanks to you, laura. >> great conversation.

i just can't stop thinking about brittney griner on the plane, seeing that picture -- that photo, well video of her she looks different already, smiling. she looks younger. she looks like the weight of the world is off of her shoulders. however, how surreal it must be that moment right there of her, how surreal these past ten months must be for her and she must think she's dreaming. >> i bet it's not going to be real until she touches down and maybe in the arms of her wife and thinking am i really safe. you can imagine to have one's freedom taken away so quickly you almost have the sense it can be done again to you. >> for sure. we'll talk about the therapy and the psychological road that's ahead, but right now i want to bring in retired district judge shira shenlen who sentenced victor bout to 25 years after he was convicted of arms trafficking back in 2012. judge, thank you so much for being here. how do you feel about viktor bout walking free today?

>> i'm okay with that because i'm so happy brittney griner is home. and whatever it took to get her home, i'm for it. so i'm not against viktor bout being sent back to russia. >> this is interesting to hear because so many people say this swap while everybody's grateful brittney is back the swap didn't make sense. everybody says he's a bad guy, and let me run through it for people who don't know his history. as you know better than anybody he was caught in a sting operation after agents basically posed as terrorists, and he was willing to sell them hundreds of surface-to-air missiles, thousands of ak-47 machine guns, five tons of plastic explosives to the terrorist group who admitted they wanted to kill american pilots in columbia. so why should he be serving any less than the 25 years that you sentenced him to? >> i thought the 25-year sentence was longer than it needed to be. when i sentenced him i had to give that sentence. i had no discretion.

those are called statutory, mandatory minimums. >> but why he didn't deserve that with all that i just spelled out? >> i thought it was too high. remember this is a businessman who was in the arms trade. he'd been in the arms trade for years, but it'd to me he stopped being in the arms trade but he'd never been prosecuted. and our government was determined to bring him to justice and they created this sting operation, and they had to convince him to do it. he really was reluctant at first, there's no question. there are tapes. and eventually said, okay, okay, i'll do it. and he said i can produce all these weapons you ticked off, those weapons. but remember the words came from the agents. they said now you understand that these weapons can be used to kill americans, and he said i'm okay with that, they're my enemy, too, but he was really agreeing with them as you would agree with a customer. if you were a businessman you'd agree with your customer. so it wasn't as if he is an ideological terrorist like the

kind of people who flew a plane into the world trade center. >> though he is -- he was accused of selling arms to al-qaeda and taliban, not in the one you convicted him for but in the past. i mean that's what part of his record is. >> that's his record, but that was never a crime against the united states, and i'm not so sure about the way you're right about al-qaeda. there were other groups he certainly sold to, many countries in africa, both sides of civil war. the point is he really didn't care who his customer was. he was selling arms to whoever would buy those arms, and that's different from somebody who has an ideology. >> but he's still a bad guy. >> for sure. >> and he's still a dangerous guy. >> is he still a dangerous guy? >> good question. i'm interested to hear you think he was retired because earlier we had on the former u.n. trafficking expert. she is the woman who is credited to getting viktor bout arrested. she just talked on cnn to erin burnett. here's what she said.

>> he is what i call a weapon of mass destruction personified, and he's on -- he'll be ready for putin to deploy him especially in ukraine and africa and other warzones. that is really heart breaking for me. i do think viktor bout is a security threat, and we cannot minimize this issue even though it's very important that brittney griner came home. we need to be very proactive here. putin is going to be ready to deploy viktor bout. he comes with years of experience, years of contacts. he started in ukraine, and i think that's one of the areas we have to be concerned about right away. viktor bout will be a major asset for putin. >> so she doesn't think he's retired. she thinks he's going to be a national security threat. >> she does. but remember he's now been in jail for 12 years. he's been cut off from his network.

and before that he hadn't been active for a number of years. if you lost your network, if you lost your suppliers you have to rebuild that network. i respectfully disagree but she's an expert in national security, i'm not. but from the evidence i heard at the trial it seems unlikely to me that he can go back into business now. he's a marked guy. i can't see him going back in the business of dealing in arms. >> and thinking about the idea of the mandatory minimum you had sentenced him to is a very important point you raise. but for many they're looking at this and saying, you know, there's an imbalance between the allegations of the two, the allegations against brittney griner and the allegations against viktor bout. in thinking about the amount of time would your position be different if he had not yet served any time compared to the idea of having now served more than a decade? >> absolutely. absolutely. that i couldn't go along with at all. surely this man needsed to be punished, needed to be

sentenced, needed to serve time in prison. but the question for any judge in any sentence is how much is needed to deter and protect the public. i think he's 55 years old. i think he's been in jail for a long time. i think he basically is going to get home to the wife and kid. i don't think he's going to be an active arms dealer. now, russians have to replenish their supply of arms. they're low on arms, so maybe this guy can be useful in finding who has arms. maybe they'll find more with his help. >> and judge, what about the argument they should have also gotten paul whelan for this, that viktor bout was such a big fish that they should have gotten paul whelan. >> the answer to should have is they would have if they could have. they certainly tried to negotiate for the release of two for one. that's something many of us advocated when i talked about this in august when it was first raised. i said it had to be two for one because she didn't commit any crime at all. in new york it wouldn't be a violation. we're talking less than a gram of cannabis oil which is good

for your knee and shoulder and back. this was not a crime. this guy was a serious arms dealer who as you said supplied arms to the worst people in the world, so of course there was a disparity. and if we could have gotten both of them free, that would have made more sense. however, as the whelan family said you do what you be to do, and they agreed if it was one or none, let's go with one. >> you're very keenly aware of the difficult choices in trying to balance, you know, the different outcomes, but it seems to me if he really is retired i do wonder why russia wants him back so badly. that's the million dollar question only, frankly, i'm sure vladimir putin and his administration can answer. >> i don't have such a problem with that. you know, most countries want their own back and this man was well-connected at the top, sure. he knew putin, he knew other high level officials. and he wanted him back. he's there guy. i get that. we've got a lot more to come on brittney griner's release as

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brittney griner is on her way home tonight after a prisoner swap for convicted russian arms dealer viktor bout bringing an end to more than ten months in captivity. but concerns remain over american paul whelan who is still in russian custody, plus first right here on cnn four high profile trump aides could face criminal referrals from the january 6th committee. a lot to talk about to go to, and we're going to bring in our panel. cnn anchor john berman and cnn political commentators s.e. cupp and van jones. what a day. the idea that this -- first of all, in context, you guys, this is even longer, frankly, than the invasion into ukraine. remember the week before she was actually detained. we didn't know about it for quite some time, and we woke up this morning with this brand new news, and there has been a whole mixed bag of reactions, mostly great knowing she's home but still a lot of concern for those who have been left behind. what is your reaction to this,

van? >> joy, just joy. because i understand this is the result of two kinds of power, the power of black women who just fought like hell for this. this was not just some act of grace from above. african american women saw themselves in her and fought and fought and fought. and the wnba women forced everybody including all the nba guys to stand up and be a part of this. so there's that kind of power and then it met the power of a president who knows who brought him to the dance. black women are the backbone of this party. you can put griner's name right up against the first african american temail vice president, the first african american female supreme court justice. this is a president who understands the value of black women and will fight for that, and you put those few things together, you have tremendous joy. of course the heart break of anyone being left behind, but there is joy tonight.

>> s.e., go ahead. >> i agree. there's a little danger what you said, though. for biden he cares about paul whelan, too, he cares about guys, he cares about white guys so i don't think this was a choice he made. i think you can believe two things and you should believe them both. that this is an unequivocal success for joe biden, and he did everything he should. he made the right decision. you know, if your choice is one or none, you take one. but at the same time at a huge cost, huge. it's a cost to paul whelan. i spoke to people who work in this space today and they said essentially the clock starts over for paul whelan potentially. that's awful. viktor bout, not a great guy, a very dangerous guy. i love what the judge had to say. it was adorable, but he's a dangerous guy, and folks have said he could be unleashed to ukraine in a week. >> and furthermore, minority

leader kevin mccarthy says this is bad for national security, that it's an incentive for finding more american targets to hang onto. >> all of these things can be true at once, and i think the way you are both framing it so important. this is not a choice between brittney griner and paul whelan. this was a choice between brittney griner and nothing. that doesn't mean there's still not an important discussion about whether or not the united states engages with rogue nations like russia over getting hostages back. that's an important discussion to have, whether that should happen ever. and, you know, i think it is happening, and i welcome it. i will say there was a distinct change in u.s. policy over this issue. when? the trump administration. this all changed between 2016 and 2020 when donald trump made it a point to do things the united states hadn't really done this overtly before, which was work to get hostages home no

matter what the cost. now, john bolton said today they were offered viktor bout for paul whelan and they didn't take it. donald trump himself seemed to go off the rails and indicate that wasn't the case today, but, you know, trump exchanged taliban -- senior taliban prisoners for americans held in afghanistan. he worked to exchange 200 houthi rebels in yemen for a couple of americans being held hostage. that hasn't been done for a long time because of what he's talking about. it's a good change but it's important to acknowledge it is a change and does put people at risk potentially. >> let's be clear, too, the idea of, yes, it is true that she is a black woman, a member of the lgbtq community, all the intersectional identity there, and what may have been even more impactful she very well may have been targeted while she was in russia for those very reasons. but it's also important to think about taking a step back. this was somebody who was accused of a crime and was not provided the due process we

would want for our citizens abrought and even domestically, and we would guarantee to people like viktor bout who had a trial based on charges. and that is the fundamental notion of the rule of law in our country. we underscore that in our constitution and beyond. and thinking about that very notion that's why thinking about the discussions around committees in congress right now, the january 6th committee in particular, looking what happens when we are dismissive of those constitutional virtues and what we hold dear. i wonder what you guys think about we're now learning about potential criminal charges and referrals coming out of that january 6th committee and the fact that as you mention a win for biden, what does this say unequivocally perhaps about the prior administration? >> what do the referrals say? >> yes. >> well, i think it's good news. they don't really mean anything. it's symbolism, and we hope that the doj has already begun working on some of this stuff

and isn't relying on the january 6th committee of lawmakers to suggest it. because we all heard the stories. but it's good we're seeing some accountability. i hope this is like step one of many. >> let's look at the pictures of the people that cnn can report that the january 6th committee is considering for criminal referrals. so here they are. they're donald trump at the top there, rudy giuliani, and then there's john eastman, and then there's -- and mark meadows. >> i like we all had to put on our glasses and get out -- >> it does look like mark meadows. >> but what do we think about those -- that choice of those five people, van? does that seem like -- why wouldn't the doj charge those guys? >> look, you can take those five and you can multiply them by five and throw five more in there, and you still wouldn't have all the people who were

responsible for taking this country to the brink. and, you know, i think that for -- you talk about justice and talk about rule of law. it does -- this particular situation underscores the sense there are two systems of justice. there are people who are in jail right now for such minor stuff for so long. they didn't run up in the capitol in the middle of a joint session of congress and beat people up and attack cops. you know, they had some petty drugs on them in this country. so when you look at that situation and you're like what do you have to do to just get charged with something -- >> i've said this before i think with you, john, someone said, look, trump is not above the law. and i think -- yes, he is. >> so far. >> he 100% is. to a normal person who's not a legal scholar you think, well, he is above the law. >> but congress -- here's the thing about this the criminal referrals. in this case congress really isn't the law.

i defer to the people at this table with law degrees. my sense from talking to people like you have worked there is what's going to happen with the investigators over at doj and merrick garland and the special counselor are going to be like whatever, we're just going to do what we're going to do, thanks congress, for your time but this isn't going to impact our investigation. and our friend eli williams said congress is doing this because it's right for congress. they're not doing it because it's right for the investigation. the work the january 6th committee has done i think is surprising to a lot of people. >> and also right for posterity. >> if they want to make a statement about this, that's political and i'm not just saying political is bad -- >> i do think there is a value to normalizing the idea that there can be criminal referrals of any kind against a former president or his henchmen

because i do think this is a mixed question above law and politics. to the extent one branch of government says we think there's crimes here, it might make it easier for the executive branch to go there. >> but their job is to have legislative oversight and think about maybe there's a way to fortify aspects of our constitution and aspects of our laws in this country and we're waiting for that report i think coming out they say the 21st. we'll see. >> thank you all very much. meanwhile, bringing brittney griner home is just the latest in a string of victories for president biden in the past week. are people underestimating him at their own expense? that's next. help comfort your loved ones. for chest, neck, and back. it goes on clear. no mess. just soothing comfort. try vickcks vapostick. get refunds.com powered by innovation refunds can help your business get a payroll tax refund,

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it's been a winning week for president biden. he secured the release of wnba player brittney griner from a russian jail today. he also supported the landmark legislation to protect same sex and interracial marriages. >> that's not the only wins, by the way of course by the administration. in the repeat weeks it also managed to avert a rail strike as well as defy mid-term history. despite these accomplishments it still seems biden is being -- well, he's being underestimated. the real question is why. you know what, i was think i heard it and i said it.

i'll start with you since i've given you a different name this evening. why do you think he's being underestimate snd. >> i think joe biden and this really started during the primaries there's a little of a tortoise and hare phenomena. after iowa and new hampshire i'm going to stay the course and sure enough he win. and we've seen in the administration, too, everything is going astray, i'm going to stay the course and it turns out okay for him. i think i don't know whether he doesn't care about the frenzy and tizzy that's going on around him or he doesn't hear it -- and i'm not being pejorative, he's not aware of it but he stays going forward and he's managed to be effective at what he wants to do. what may him an incredibly odd fit for this twitter moment, you know, the twitter society may make him a good foitit for real life society and getting stuff done.

>> there's another network that devoteds hours of programming to montages of his bumbling, his word finding difficulties, and they yuck it up about, you know, how senile or old he is. and then -- >> i think i know that. >> you may be familiar with it. and then he pulls off all those legislative wins and a mid-term victory and gets, you know, brittney griner home. i think they might be snowballing -- like buffaloing their viewers into thinking he's not as effective as he is. >> that he's weak, that he's an easy target, that he's an easy takeover, that incompetent. and i also just think they're sort of -- republicans are misdiagnosing biden and their own problems. i heard a former colleague of ours, newt gingrich, this week taking a stab at it. and both said a version of we

should be beating these socialists and communists and we're not. i think most people don't see the socialism and the communism is the problem. they're using these words that sound really scary, and i think most people are like where is it? where is all of that you're talking about, the wokism? where is it all? so the culture wars are effective but only at agitating their base. they're not really effecting the mass electorate who i think is starting to see through all that stuff. >> van, you think about it there's that old saying underestimate me, this will be fun. for biden he's probably having fun at the notion every time you're underestimating, well, you overestimated a red wave, you overestimated the ability to get things done, overestimated the ability to get herschel walker elected. perhaps it's maybe an inadvertent strategy at this point to be under that radar.

>> you remember columbo? a bunch of democrats have been as well. i think there's this cognitive dissonance between someone who looks so feeble. those of us who have known joe biden -- i worked for him in the obama white house -- he was a more vigorous figure and now he's older and he looks older. and yet his record is that of a colossus. i mean he has pulled off more st. stuff in the two years he's been in office with this tiny little majority than a lot of presidents get done in a whole term. so when i look at somebody and say hold on a second your record, you've got the most basketball points in a game ever in the first half -- in the first half. but at the same time you -- you look like you are, you know, a grandpa. so i think democrats are just now realizing, wait a minute,

we've got a winner here. we've got a winner here. >> i think it's all true but i also -- i'm not sure he's a strong candidate going into 2024. he has every right to run. every right. >> everything van said is not being reflected in the approval rate. >> i would put him up against trump again. that worked great last time. but a ron desantis or someone else i don't think he's got it and not just because of republicans but democrats. he was elected to be a transitional president not a transformational one. and i don't think he can take the party or the country where it ultimately wants to go. >> he as a saying actually i think which describes why he's had some of this success. what he's wanted to do he's gotten done. he always says don't judge me against the almighty, judge me against the alternative, right? and so that's where he's benefitted a lot up until this point. who he's been running against, who he's been fighting against,

you know, that may change at some point. the best thing he's got going for him is drufl. if donald trump doesn't want to go through this with this election, things may be very different. >> i'm going to call him john beerman from now on. >> well, look harry and meghan are now calling out the royal family in their new docu series, and if you haven't had a chance to watch yet, you should stay tuned. >> we've got clips. whwhile it, its possibilities are endlese. from paying g your people from anywhere to supporting your talent everywhere, we use data driven insights to design hr solutions and services to help businesses of all size work smarter today. so, they can have more success tomorrow. ♪ one thing leads to another ♪ with the new law, our family found a healthplan for less than $57 a month and knowing that we are covered, it simplies life.

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tonight we're hearing prince harry and meghan markle's side of the story. the first three episodes of their six part docu series hitting netflix today. >> it includes meghan's first meeting with the royal family and also address their relentless media attention which harry says has a race element when it comes to coverage of

meghan. let's watch. >> as far as the royal family were concerned everything she was being put through they'd been put through as well, so it was almost like a rite of passage and some members of the family were like, my wife had to go through so why should your girlfriend be treated any differently? why should you get special treatment, why should she be protected? i said the difference here is the race element. >> back with us john berman, s.e. cupp, and van jones. that's interesting. van, i thought that was very insightful to hear they all said we had to go through it, it's a rite of passage and the difference is the race element. tell me your thoughts about that. all i see are paparazzi swarming all the women at all times. >> i think this is a case of trauma meeting tradition. i think you have two people who have really significant trauma. harry lost his mom at a very

young age. there's not a bunch of royals that had their mom basically kill by paparazzi, so you can't say, well, get over it. and then with meghan she's a black woman, and once you start throwing out racial stuff, we have a 400-year history of that leading to a lot of violence. and so you have this new modern couple managing a personal trauma and the royal family could not get past the tradition. so you guys just act like everybody else, you should act like everybody else. you want some special privileges. no, we are in a unique situation with special trauma and you guys need to respond. and the failure of the tradition to give way to the trauma resulted in this whole mess. >> it doesn't like either from the document air they're exposing it was something that was like an inadvertent or ignorance of it but maybe intentional, that we have chosen intentionally not to provide some sort of you have to go through what we went through, but there is something different. i mean, she is a black woman entering the monarchy.

it is -- it is different. the history of the monarchy is different. there is aspects of it as a black woman that she would -- i mean different in the idea what she would have to think about. >> and here's the reality, they deserved the support of their family. they deserved a family that could listen and could adapt, and they didn't get that. and now people want to say she's a cribaby and she's a prima donna, etseta, et cetera. but i ask anybody you put yourself in that situation and you imagine all those people coming at you, and you live on a continent with actual nazis, et cetera, and say you'd be happy to have no protection. >> all i'm saying and she was asking a whatever 88-year-old traditional woman to adapt. >> how do you see it? >> well, like i said last night i don't really watch the royals and that's my right. we won a war over it, but,

listen, i'm glad they're telling their story and what they wept through. and i think it is eye opening, and it's a good reckoning. what i don't like is how broadly they painted this story. i mean they throw the whole of the u.k. as racist, the media's racist, the paparazzi are racist. brexit supporters are -- they're very broad about how they talk about what they went through, very personally what they went through. and i wish they were a bit more surgical unless they truly believe that everyone is -- is like that and everyone there is awful and out to get them. >> do we have time to play one more clip about the -- here's the unconscious bias harry talks about. >> this family sometimes, you know, you're part of a problem and part of a solution. and there is a huge level of unconscious bias.

the thing with unconscious bias is it's actually no one's fault. but once it's been pointed out or identified within yourself, you then need to make it right. >> what's interesting to me is the idea of -- i mean when you're talking about the monarchy and painting with a broad stroke, i mean his family which would normally be your personal family if you think about it. if your family is synonymous with a country, how can you avoid painting with a broad stroke? >> i've been doing a lot of research which is to say i watched two of the episodes. it's crazy what's going on there. but there's a quote from a guy, james holt, who's a former palace spokesman who says there's a family -- there is this -- it's a difficult conversation to have. he says. which encapsulates my whole feeling about this. sometimes you have to take a step back, and it sort of makes

my hair -- it's insane. it's insane what we're talking about. >> so what i like about this documentary, is at least bringing up the conversation about the whole thing again and making people look at it and go, wait a second, what are we actually talking about? let alone, talking about in america? where is s.e., my favorite massachusetts girl points out, we fought a war about this. >> we thought we'd be done with it. >> all right, friends. thank you for all the different perspectives. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. for instant relief that lasts up to 12 hours. vicks sinex targets congestion at the source, relieving nasal congestion and sinus s pressure by reducing swelliling in the sinuses. try vicks sinex.

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we want to highlight the good stuff happening across the country by celebrating real heroes. join anderson cooper and kelly rip in to find out who will be the 2022 hero of the year. cnn heroes all-star tribute begins sunday at eight p.m.. >> sunday, it's the time of year to be inspired.

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sunday. >> really. nice really good. >> okay, up next. a close personal friend of britney griner speaks out about griner's release. griner's post a touchdown in san antonio very soon. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. ♪ grandma, how wide are two reindeer? twenty-seven, twenty-eight, enty-nine... ♪ ♪ make this december one to remember. together. it worked! happy holidays from lexus. our clients come to us with complicated situations that occur in their lives. for them it's the biggest milestone,

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