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charges against former president trump. they are conspiracy to defraud the federal government, obstruction of an official proceeding, and insurrection. so we'll talk about what all that means. plus, tonight american tourists are stranded at machu picchu because of violent protests breaking out across peru. we're going to speak live to an american who is stuck there and has run out of her critical medication. she'll tell us if there is a plan to get her out. and what does the term "free speech" mean to you? it has now become a weapon in the culture war, but what does it even mean? what does it mean online? what does it mean on social media? does elon musk get to decide, or can we find some universal definition of it? our super smart panel has some thoughts on all of that. but first, let's get to the new developments out of the january 6th committee. we have with us john miller, cnn chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst. you have a long title there, john. >> a lot of people have trouble using intelligence and john miller in the same sentence.

>> that wasn't a problem. also cnn senior political analyst john avlon and cnn legal analyst jennifer rodgers. that's a much easier title. jennifer, let's look at the three charges they are considering. obstruction of an official proceeding, conspiracy to defraud the federal government, insurrection. which one would be the hardest to prove, do you think? >> that's a good question. i think probably the insurrection, the incitement to insurrection just because it's so rarely charged. what does insurrection mean? all of these things come into play. i think that's probably the most challenging for them. it's also the one, though, as john and i were just talking about, that carries the penalty that you can no longer have an office for the united states if you're convicted of that. so that is attractive to doj for that reason. >> one more question with your prosecutor hat on. now what? if the committee sends this over to the doj, does it move the needle for the doj? i mean how much of an impact does the committee's referral have on them? >> the referral not much. the evidence, a lot.

they worked really hard, really smart people on the committee. they did an incredible amount of work gathering evidence. i think they'll be happy to get all of those transcripts and pieces of evidence. i don't think they'll pay too much attention to what the committee suggests they do except in the following way. if they are very, very specific about these are the crimes we propose, these are the elements of those crimes, these are the pieces of evidence that support each of those elements beyond a reasonable doubt, then i think that's something that doj might say, all right. you're smart people. that will help us sift through all of these thousands and thousands of witnesses, documents, et cetera. but if it's a little bit more vague than that and it's mostly just an information dump, they're going to have to go through it all themselves anyway. >> we're going to find out definitively on monday. they're going to announce criminal referrals they're going to make. the polling is interesting. the latest polling on this is very interesting because we've been listening to these hearings for a long time. it's been obviously more than a

year, and yet in terms of the latest polls, the views on january 6th for democrats, 90% say it should never be forgotten. only 8% say it's time to move on. there's another quinnipiac poll that's inlteresting in terms of how closely are you following this? the one taken on december 14th, 2022, 61% of americans are following it very closely or somewhat closely. so people are still engaged in this and what the outcome is going to z. >> you look at that polling. on the one hand, you say there are some things you don't put up to a poll. the partisan divide is dispiriting. this is an attack on our country, on our democracy, on our constitution. i want to see where independents are. we make this mistake all the time. we think the country is divided into democrats and republicans, and it's not. the other third of the country or more are independents. let's not, you know, take this as some, well, we're just deeply divided and we'll never know

what happened or get to an agreement. let's apply the law. >> this is not an agree to disagree situation. >> this ain't that. the charges they're contemplating are very serious. they have constitutional backing. laws that date back to the civil war generation trying to put penalties in place so it could not happen again. so, you know, i'm very happy to see them closing in on particular conspiracy to defraud the united states and insurrection. >> we don't know if the doj will choose to charge, nor do we know if former president donald trump would ever be convicted. but it's interesting because the people who engaged in the insurrection did hear what they thought were commands. they heard an incitement to violence. they heard an incitement to disruption of the peaceful transfer of power. but whether or not they can prove -- i mean there's obviously a disconnect -- there may be a disconnect between what they heard and what president trump actually said. >> so that's very interesting because they heard in the

speech, you know, go down and give them hell, and they marched down the street. we heard now in the oath keepers trial, where the head of the oath keepers is texting people and talking meetings about, we're waiting for word from trump whether we should call in the armed team from virginia. and you will also note in that same stack that when president trump tweeted to them, stand down and go home, they did it on a dime. so there is this element of command and control. but you've also got jack smith, the special counsel, who is doing this in a very -- his own rocket doctor. pe -- docket. things are being brought to court and said this stuff has to be turned over. rulings are happening. this is going very quickly before this criminal referral, so he's off and running, and i think when you look at him calling in witnesses like stephen miller, you know, the president's speechwriter, who was part of the ideological

machinery behind this entire movement, they're going to be asking questions. who were you talking to that day? who knew what? when did they know it? who said what? what was following what instructions? >> look, we've seen through the january 6th committee how many of these folks, including lawyers, took the fifth when they were compelled to testify. but the doj has got different, you know, levels. their subpoenas carry even more weight. and so, you know, that's happening in a parallel path right now. what's clear is there needs to be a degree of accountability. and that's the real question that i think we confront as a nation. >> there's also a very different mechanical piece here, and i'll de defer to jennifer rodgers. but the last time we did this, donald trump was the sitting president. the department of justice had office of legal counsel guidance saying, you can investigate what you want, but a sitting president can't be indicted or cha charged. and there was the awkward miss, which is natural, of an attorney general whose justice department, special counsel was

investigating the president who appointed him. none of that is happening here. he's a former president and chargeable. the attorney general is not working for the person who is under investigation. so what does that make this different -- how does that make this different from the last time in terms of likelihood? >> it may actually happen. there is no way that bill barr was going to allow mueller to indict trump even if mueller ignored the guidance and said he wanted to do it anyway. we don't have that here. i think merrick garland probably put jack smith in there even though garland has the veto power. i don't think he will here. i think he will go with what jack smith wants to do. that guy is a career prosecutor. he's there to make cases. >> one of the interesting things is donald trump, as we all know, often says two contradictory things at the same time. so he tweets out, big protest in d.c. on january 6th. be there w. will be wild. then he goes to the ellipse and one of the things he said to the crowd as the ellipse -- mind you some of them were in tactical

gear. however, one of the things he says is, i know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. and so in other words, there are two -- i mean can't he say in a defense, i told them to be peaceful and patriotic. wouldn't that help his defense? >> yeah. i mean, listen, he always is going to throw stuff in there to help. he also, of course, under force basically from his aides eventually sends tweets saying, you know, go home, be peaceful. >> he also said to get our country back, we have to fight like hell. >> what doj is very good at is telling the story. they will say this is the conspiracy. these are the parts of the conspiracy. this is how the conspiracy was carried out. yeah, sure, he threw some things in there to appease people and so on. but there was a goal here, and really every step he was going towards that. >> that sounds like your opening. >> people are hanging their hat on that word "peacefully." read the rest of just that sentence. >> today we will see whether republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections. no problem there.

>> no, no. when he says, i know many will be marching on the capitol. >> yeah. >> go fight like hell. rudy giuliani, who john miller and i know very well saying trial by combat. >> right. but trump didn't. >> yeah, but he said go fight like hell. march on the capitol. you know, we know now, for example, that he said, well, get rid of the magnetometers. they may be armed, but they're not here to hurt me. >> this speech was far from the most compelling against trump. even from the committee to say nothing of what doj -- >> what is going to be the compelling witnesses? >> the people in the room with him, the people the committee didn't get to because they threw up all these privilege arguments that now judge howell has wiped away. the people in the room with him when they were talking about this plot, what are we going to do about pence? all of the people in that plot, that's the testimony. >> that's interesting because there are other people that obviously they're considering criminal referrals against. mark meadows, former white house

chief of staff. john eastman. jeffrey clark. rudy giuliani naturally. so you think that one of those were spelling out of the conspiracy. >> i think they all were. there's a whole bunch of different strands here. even those people you named were part of different strands in this. eastman is giving the legal advice about what pence can do and so on. giuliani is rallying up the state people. and meadows is calling r raffensperger. they all have these different pieces of the plot. >> all of those people are getting subpoenas. the white house people are getting subpoenas. the election officials in battleground states who were on the receiving ends of those calls are getting subpoenas. this is kind of a shotgun approach to the violations. >> we got to remember this case has been unfolding for a long time. we get more and more information. now the january 6th committee's work is coming to a head. we're going to get its culmination with new evidence apparently on monday and the final report wednesday.

don't forget how historic this is. there's nothing like this in american history where you have a sitting president trying to overturn an election on the basis of a lie, inciting a mob to attack the capitol to disrupt a constitutional proceeding. so that's the lens we got to keep in mind and think way beyond partisanship and all the kind of b.s. arguments that get floated by folks trying to deflect and distract. >> we'll see on monday what they have to say. thank you all very much. meanwhile, dozens of americans are stranded tonight in machu picchu because of violent protests across peru. and they are running out of necessities like medication and food. so up next, we're going to speak to one of those stranded tourists about how she plans to get out. cuse me! roll it back, everybody!! charmin ultra soft is so cushiony soft, you'll want more! but it's so absorbent, you can use less. enjoy the go with charmin. when we started selling my health products online our shipping process was painfully slow.

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hundreds of tourists, including many americans, are stranded in the ancient city of machu picchu tonight and reportedly running out of food. it's a very remote area, only accessible by train, and train service has been indefinitely suspended because of violent protests across peru. at least 20 people have died after peru's president was impeached and ousted last week. tonight the state department tells cnn they are in touch with some americans there. joining us is one of the americans stranded, katherine mar tusy. she's a tourist currently stuck in peru. thank you very much for being with us. what's the latest at this hour? have they told you how you're getting out of there?

>> well, we were medically evaluated this morning. if you were of a certain age and definitely out of medication, then you were prioritized as a category 1. we didn't hear anything for the rest of the day. however, we were told this evening and we got some of our group members got an email from the state department that we would be -- priority number one would be evacuated sometime tomorrow by helicopter. what we know is that there's four helicopters. we do not know the capacity of the helicopters, and we do not know if they're making more than one run. >> so, katherine, all of that is nerve-racking i can imagine. so you are one of the tourists who is out of medication. you all were told that you were going for, you know, two days, which is the typical amount of time to get up and down from

machu picchu. so you packed very lightly. how dicey is your medical situation today? >> it's not life-threatening, but the withdrawal from the medication itself has challenges. so to abruptly stop taking this medication is an issue. i don't have any more. i do have some in cusco. so if i get to cusco, i'll be good. but they do not have that medication here. some of our group members have hypertension, and they were able to get their medication here in machu picchu at the hospital. >> so, katherine, we've heard that some of the restaurants have run out of food. what's the situation with food there? >> well, we have food. there's no really -- you know, we're well-fed. however, one of the restaurants

that our tour group contracts with is out of food, and we expect more establishments to run out of food as time goes on. and as you said in the introduction, the only way in here is by that rail. and that rail is privately owned. it is not owned by the government. so they can do what they want, and their message to us today via email or their website was that out of an abundance of caution for their employees and the passengers, that they did not know when they were going to be giving the service again. >> right. >> many people are walking out, about an eight to ten-hour hike. >> wow. i mean that's not for the faint of heart, particularly through that terrain. as you're speaking, we're

looking at the beautiful pictures of machu picchu. my family and i went there at exactly this time three years ago. we were there for new year's eve, and i now how remote it is and how breathtakingly beautiful. but you definitely feel like you're away from civilization when you're in that little town where you are. it's remote. >> it's very remote. we are extremely lucky that we have internet. we have cell service. i'm very surprised. but don't forget that machu picchu pueblo, the town, exists, as you know, specifically for the tourists that want to enjoy machu picchu. >> yeah. so kathryn, let me ask you this. even getting a helicopter in there seems dicey because it's a very mountainous region. and as you well know, the weather moves in there, and it rains, and the clouds descend, and the visibility is really low. how nerve-racking has all of

this been for you. >> the lack of information and the sort of like, well, maybe this, maybe that is very frustrating. we have been very well treated. today we were about three to four hours wait for the doctor to evaluate our medical priorities, and we heard -- one of the group was back at city hall in the afternoon, and she said that there are hundreds of people lined up waiting to be evaluated. >> yeah. it's not ideal, and it's certainly not what you expected when you booked your machu picchu trip. >> although i have to say, if we were two days later, we would have been stuck in machu picchu not having seen machu picchu because it's closed.

>> oh. yeah. well, okay, that's a silver lining. i'm glad you were able to make it to the top because it is such a special place. but we're really hoping that you can get out of there tomorrow. we'll check back with you, kat kathryn, to make sure you're okay. best of luck. hang in there. >> thank you so much. thank you for having me. >> what is the state department's responsibility when americans travel like this to a remote area? what does the state department do? >> the state department typically issues a variety of advisories for different countries. in this case, given as peru's political unrest, had it as a level three, reconsider travel. >> it's pretty sudden. they have it now as a level three but i don't know if when they planned their trip -- you plan your trip six months in advance. >> i would highly recommend that anybody considering travel overseas register for what's called a step program. you will automatically get alerts when you're in-country or

about to travel to the country. it allows the local consulate office to know who the american citizens are so if they have information, intelligence about some pending disaster or political unrest, they will then actually make an effort to contact you and find you and let you know what to do. so some of it is the united states is not trying to track every american who is overseas, and we should have the freedom to travel, but also an awareness about when we are traveling, we are taking risks. i'm glad to hear that kathryn is safe and sound. many of these towns and remote areas are designed to cater to tourists. they are 100% dependent on money from overseas. so in this situation, it is in their interest as well to make sure that foreign tourists are taken care of. i will mention i have been stranded in kathmandu, which only has one runway when an airplane crashed and shut down everything. that's where people go everywhere from everest, to visit temples. it was about eight days where my mother and i sat around a hotel.

>> so that runway was not open for eight days. >> for eight days. it's only one runway for all international flights, everything out of the country. we did contemplate driving through the mountains to india to see if we could get a flight out of new delhi. we thought we're better off where we are. >> john, do you have a travel nightmare story you'd like to share? >> not involving, you know, sort of coups and a shutdown. look, the interview you just had, obviously, you know, the americans are stranded there. everyone is stranded there. it's a reminder of when the stability that we often take for granted in the united states falls apart, and that our neighbors in south america -- it's a very tumultuous there right now. not just in peru but in argentina, perpetually up north in venezuela, brazil. >> politically speaking, isn't it -- i mean based upon what we were just talking about in our last segment in terms of the insurrection here, they are having this coup because their president was corrupt, they felt, and was, you know,

basically -- >> tried to dissolve parliament. >> but also stealing from them or making money while in office. and he was impeached and immediately ousted and arrested. >> yes. so there's -- >> other countries have travel warnings about the united states. let's be clear. new zealand, ireland, japan have called us a gun-crazed culture and warned that, you know, there are frequent shootings out there. so it's a matter of perception of how you approach these issues as well. >> that's interesting. john, any thoughts? >> well, somewhere, as nayyera will tell us, in peru there's an ambassador who is trying to figure out what do i do with americans? you've got 300 people stranded in machu picchu. but there's other americans in bad positions there. every embassy has a person called the rso, the regional security officer, and that person is usually a special agent of the diplomatic security service. and that's the person they're turning to right now to say -- >> who gets the chopper in the air to come and rescue them. >> that rso is the one trying to

figure out now between local military assets, assets that we could bring in. how do you get those people out, and is that going to be a little chopper where you can take four people? do they have chinooks where you can send four in and get 100 out? how many trips? you brought up the weather. so there's real challenges there, and this is when the state department goes into that kind of contingency planning that they think about a lot. >> thank goodness for them. up next, a somewhat related story but with a happy ending. that american college student has surfaced more than two weeks after he was reported missing in france. but where has he been for the past two weeks, and what is the u.s.'s responsibility when an american disappears in europe? and also what should parents know before their kids study abroad next month?

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that american student reported missing in france more than two weeks ago has been found safe in spain. thank goodness. we can all sleep easier tonight. the family of ken deland junior says in a statement, quote, we received a call from kenny in the early morning hours. kenny is in spain, and carol, his mom, is in france preparing to see kenny and hopefully bring him home for christmas. the family had been searching for kenny after last hearing from him on november 27th. the college senior was then reported missing by his fellow students on november 29th. the family has not yet said what kenny has told them about where he's been and what he's been doing. back with us is john miller. also joining us, we have cnn

political commentator errol louis, nayyera huck is also back. errol, i must admit when you said on this program on monday night, earlier this week, you were like, he's probably just traveling around europe, having a blast, meeting people, having a good time. i was like, wow, errol has some rose-colored glasses on, and i thought you were wrong. you were right. >> i have some experience with this. in my 20s, and i think they still do it, you get a eurao pass, and you can ride anywhere in europe for free. you get around, and one tries to see a little bit of the world. >> but that's before cell phones. i did it too. you parents weren't expecting you to check in every day. this was strange. he had checked in every day for weeks and then he went dark. >> sounds like a heck of a trip, huh? calling your mom every day. is that the way to see europe? maybe he just needed a little freedom. >> maybe. to be honest, and i love you're still wearing your rose-colored glasses, but to be honest, we

don't know what happened to him. in other words, nothing nefarious, but we don't know if he was having some sort of emotional issue. i hope his parents will say it because the truth is, john, the media did find him. because his parents went to the press and because places like cnn covered it, he saw himself, and he realized he was in trouble and called home. i mean that's what you want to have happen. it worked. but it would be nice to get an explanation. >> it would be. and i mean this was, you know, a low priority for the police in france. they looked it as he's 22 years old. he can go where he wants, do what he wants. and as far as we can tell from the video we've seen, the things he's buying before he went off the grid, he seemed to have left of his own accord and was okay. so from the french perspective, this is kind of let us know if something happens. the fbi was pushing very hard to get information and getting very little. they were communicating with the buffalo p.d. and rochester and the family.

but the frontal cortex in the male being is not developed until you're 25 years old, which means complex decision-making is often hampered. >> so you're in the errol camp of, like, he just went off and forgot to tell people. >> okay. so i actually am. but let me complicate it a little bit because people who run away and go off the grid, people say, well, he's not acting normal. when you run away, you're escaping normal because you're not happy. was it that he went to france and the prosecutor interviewed people who said, i'm not fitting in. i wasn't prepared for this. my french isn't good enough. i can't communicate. i'm not making friends. did he go off the grid and say, i can't get on the phone with my parents and say, you know, this college thing you spent all that money on and my french trip, i'm dialing out of it. or do you take a walk for a while and say, i'm going to try something else. this is the thing that makes parents say things like, thank god you're okay. when you get home, we're going to kill you. >> you're grounded, yes.

n it's the holiday break for millions of college students around the country, and in a few weeks, many of them are going to go off to semester abroad. so when american kids go off to semester abroad, what is the responsibility, once again, of the state department, the fbi? i mean who does keep those kids safe beyond their own bad frontal cortex? >> that's part of the challenge, right? you're an adult at 18, but we still want to think of all college students as kids even though when i was a college student, that's the last thing -- i thought i was mature and responsible but in hindsight probably could have done some better communication with my parents. the state department does the consular affairs office, their interest is in protecting the safety, security, and they say the interests of american citizens abroad. those interests typically are about birth certificates, getting a passport, if you've been arrested. it's not a 22-year-old young man

who seems of sound mind making decisions to travel. similarly here in the united states, right? a missing persons report, police will -- they don't necessarily share the same information unless they think there is something nefarious at stake. so it is not, despite the parents' concern, overall the highest risk situation. so i'd say the family is very lucky that the fbi was indeed involved. in this type of scenario, that strikes me as unusual. i guess i'm in the errol camp of seeing that it is very difficult when young people often go off to college or a new environment, don't fit in. you have these emotional challenges and don't make the best of decisions. >> i just wish that he checked in with his parents. obviously from what we know, they were really scared, and we all were scared. sometimes, as we all know, these do not have the best endings. >> i'm in the parents' camp. if my kid goes off the grid, i'm pulling out all the stops. now to this. free speech is being weaponized in the culture wars, and it's

all playing out as you know right now on elon musk's twitter, but it's bigger than that. what does free speech really mean these days? who polices it? we discuss all of that next. at pfizer, we're driven by this impulse. we've reached hundreds of millions of lives with our covid-19 response. and we keep innovating. whatever comes next, we will respond fiercely. like family. ♪

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twitter? the new twitter chief likes to bandy around the term free speech a lot, but what does it even mean? our panel is back with us. sarah fisher joins the conversation. here's an example. here's what elon musk tweets. this is a battle for the future of civilization. if free speech is lost, even in america, tyranny is all that lies ahead. john, does freedom of speech mean the same thing on social media that it means in the first amendment, or do we need a new definition of this? >> well, no. free speech in the first amendment is that congress shall make no law to abridge freedom of speech which means that freedom of speech is protected against government interference. in a private platform, that's largely up to the questions of what standards people want to create. this is another case where our technologies are outpacing our laws. but the culture war politicization of the term free speech is itself part of how we're in this mess. really what he's pointing to by implication is frustration with

illiberalism on the left. but his actions, for example, last night show the hypocrisy of that position when it's being bandied about by people on the right. >> his definition of freedom of speech is subjective of course, as is everyone's. but it means he doesn't like it when somebody does something against him. so online and on social media, what does free speech mean? >> free speech means you can say anything that's basically not illegal, you know. if you want to say something, you shouldn't be banned from a social media platform for doing it. but to john's point, elon musk has the right to do it. the challenge then becomes if you're a user, do you want to use that platform? you should have the right to say whatever you want, again barring that it's not outrageous or illegal or barring that it doesn't violate policies that social media platforms implement like hate speech and violence, et cetera. if you get banned for posting a link to an account that tracks elon musk's private jet based off publicly available information, that should not be happening on a private platform like this. i think elon musk might have a

user problem if people feel like they can't speak up and say their mind on twitter. >> against him, yes. but i do want to make this bigger than elon musk because it is about all of us. errol, free speech does mean something different online and on social media because as long as you don't say anything outrageous or illegal. people say outrageous things all the time. >> sure. >> the line of what is violent rhetoric or when it goes over that line is very fuzzy good people should be clear that we're talking about concepts about what is acceptable or possible in the public square. this is not the public square. this is a privately owned company and the guy who owns the company will do whim sickly, capriciously, in a petty way, what he feels like doing. >> facebook has its own rules. >> people have to be very clear. you know, a lot like many people, a big part of my life is on google documents, you know, and gmail and so forth. we don't own that data. we don't even own access to that data.

the reality is whether you've paid for it or not, look at the fine print. it's theirs. and so we should all be very clear that, you know, the technology has gone into a very different place, and people will go to court and they will lose over and over again if they think they have the right to their twitter account, access to their twitter account, postings and links they've put up on that platform to help make other people rich. i think wehere a lot of this is going to start to fall apart is when it comes to advertisers who have been walking away in droves because they don't like being in an environment with a bunch of neo-nazis and a capricious owner. that's not where you want to try to sell the next model of ford trucks or something. >> i get it's not a good business model, but can we have some established definition of what free speech is supposed to be online, or are we just leaving it up to the elon musks of the world? >> we need to coalesce around common values again. i think one of the things

ironically that could unite us is an articulation of liberal values understanding there are going to be people who are illiberal and extreme. errol makes a great point because twitter has become to some extent the public square, but it is not in fact public. there's no right in the interpretation of the first amendment, there's no right to yell fire in a crowded theater. >> if it's on fire, you can yell it. >> yes, falsely. >> falsely. we're dealing with massive disinformation. we're dealing with algorithms that amplify the most divisive, extreme voices. that's having a real impact on our democracy. that's why content moderation is a complex problem but an urgent one. we should focus on common values and principles. this is why you can't simply throw your hands up when it comes to content moderation. >> we were getting there. that's the thing that's so frustrating. twitter, facebook, youtube, reddit. they were all part of a group that was trying to come up with standard definitions of things

like hate speech and misinformation so that the entire internet universe could have uniform definitions. >> then what happened? >> garm still exists but twitter is kind of pieced out. elon musk has said he's removing the content moderation panel, which was a panel of outside experts. my sources in the advertising community says elon musk is m.i.a. when it comes to taking this stuff seriously. when it comes to getting these advertisers to stick on the program, he'll fake it, but he's not really digging in. >> furthermore he also tweeted out misinformation. so he's an offender of this. >> the one thing i will say that gives me a little bit of optimism. we have had some courts challenge some of the stuff at twitter. you'll recall that aoc actually had a situation where she was blocking people. so it's not just on the right. that stuff also -- people have put up lawsuits. we can actually use the rule of law to fix it. unclear at this point what lawsuits are going to come out

of the elon musk -- >> it's going to be slow going. to talk about some of the other platforms for a minute, it's horrifying to see that on facebook there's evidence that when some, you know, young teenage girl who's depressed is looking at things like suicide, the algorithm starts giving them links toward -- >> and anorexia, all of it. >> they feed them the very information that will destroy them. you want to talk about a value that's sort of gone out of whack. we do have to get some control over all of this. >> no yquestion. >> whether it takes law or custom or bad press, all of that will -- >> i think bad press isn't sufficient. i think algorithm reform is the least of it. there's a lot of important work being done looking at that link. but also the impact on our democracy in terms of the radicalization of people, you ask what are the common values in addition to i think more transparency and understanding of what these algorithms are feeding people. a part of free speech is that people own their speech. but the problem of disinformation and bots is very real, something that elon musk

has talked about. but that's a real issue, you know. the verification that there's an individual behind this account. >> a human. >> yeah. that's a place to start. >> friends, thank you all very much. really interesting. we'll be right back. help comfort your loved ones. for chest, neck, and back. it goes on clear. no mess. just soothing comfort. try vicks vapostick.

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