>> so, we have a major development tonight. we're getting new information on trump's tax returns. and our team has been combing through this report of the house ways incoming committee has voted to release tonight. i want to get right to democratic congressman of michigan, he's on the house ways and means committee, anything in the time to join us this evening. congressman, thank you for being here. now, you have seen these tax returns. and i'm wondering what did you learn given the fact that part of it we've seen some portions of his tax information, you've got the cases in new york, you've got the 2020 new york

times exposé piece, what were the key takeaways from this actual return? >> there's two things. one is the extent to which the former president trump used the tax code to his benefit. now, you know, that could be very legal. i'm not sure that we could come to any conclusions about the legality. there are questions that are unanswered. there are a lot of claims that lack documentation, use of charitable contributions or charitable donations, loans to family members that need to be examined. there is a whole lot there. . and it's really interesting to see the extent to which the president, than then president, was able to avoid what most of us would say is this fair share of taxes. he's a very wealthy individual. but the real point of this, and the other surprise to me, if there was a surprise, is that this mandatory audit program that we're aware of at the irs that goes back to the nixon era was dormant during the trump

years. it wasn't even until april of 2019, when the chairman of our committee, richard neil, sent the letter to the irs, to the treasury department, asking for these returns under section 61 of the tax code. it wasn't all that very day that the first of these returns were flagged for audit. they had simply failed to do that at all. and they never completed any of the so-called mandatory audit of the president of the united states during president trump's term of office, during his tenure as president, the mandatory reporting, or mandatory auditing requirements under the irs code book, under their internal rules was completely avoided. >> i find that stunning to think that that could have been the case. and just the idea, and again, you talk about some of the criticism of the wind now and the idea, is there really a legitimate legislative purpose here? there is the statements by some

republicans that this was all pretextual. that hold on, a lame duck congress essentially wanting these, which is not true. it's been years in the making, number one. but the idea you described sounds to me like there might be a legitimate legislative hook to say was a law actually followed? did the process actually take place? what do you say to those who look at this though and say this is, come on, you can't do anything about this at the end of a democratic run house ways and means committee. what is the point of this? what do you say? >> first of all, we initiated this in 2019 with the intention of determining whether we needed to take up legislation to address what seems to be a weakness in the audits of presidents. i mean, the president kept talking about his returns being under audit. he failed to release his returns, as every president since nixon had done. so, a big question mark hung over this. but we needed to get the facts. so, we asked for the facts to determine whether the irs was

properly enforcing the law on the president of the united states. the reason it took so long was because of donald trump, because of those who support him, many of the same republicans now crying foul supported his effort to sue us, to delay, delay, delay until finally the supreme court of the united states, just a few weeks ago, said no, the ways and means committee is correct. these documents should be delivered to them. so we've had just a couple of weeks to examine the information, come to the conclusion that, yes, legislation is warranted, craft that legislation, and now hopefully move that to the floor of the house representatives. whether our republican allies agree that we should have this legislation or not is something that remains to be seen. they have said that they would support it without looking at the documents that make the argument for it. it's really important to point out, there is no more compelling argument and two important facts. one, the fact that these audits were not conducted when

president trump was in office. >> which is mandatory. >> mandatory under irs rules. not by a lot, but under irs practice. that's one piece of it. the other really important pieces to look at that in the context of an examination of the returns themselves. those returns raise all sorts of red flags. and we think, in order for congress to add and the american public to judge our actions, we have to be able to look at both of those facts. that's why we felt it was important to release the information. >> well, that first back, the idea of it being irs rules not under law, that to me says there is a huge gap between what ought to be the case and what can be legislated. so, the goal would ultimately be, i'm assuming, to legislate away so that it is mandatory under the law. would that be only for an incumbent president, but for a candidate as well? >> our legislation would apply to the president of the united states. we do have other legislation we considered as part of our hr1,

our political reform that democrats have advanced that would require candidates, major candidates for president of the united states to release their returns. but this is specific to the president of the united states, an individual was incredible and unique power to influence policy, the economy of the nation, their own personal financial well-being. so, we feel like there's a special standard that ought to apply to a person with that much unchecked power. >> yeah, speaking of special, of course, the former president thinks he is especially picked on, as opposed to prior presidents. there's been claims that the congress is weaponizing his personal information, trying to have a punitive measure over him, that this curiosity of whether the irs completed these mandatory audit seems to just have a spotlight on him. is there a truth to that, that this is something that was only looked at because it was trump, or not? >> no, but i mean trump is a unique individual in the presidency, a person with hundreds of different corporate identities that he can hide

behind, move money in between. so, it is a unique set of circumstances for sure. but president trump could have answered one of these two questions if he had simply done what he would said he would do, and that is he himself releases the tax returns. remember, going all the way back to 2015, he kept saying over and over again hill release his returns. and we've been waiting all this time. we still would've had to seek under section 60 103 of the tax code information about whether the irs is properly auditing those returns. but he could've resolve the big question, though the republicans seem to have such a big difficulty with, and others the release of the tax returns themselves. he promised to do it. we need that information now because the questions that have arisen around whether or not the irs did its job. i don't think they did. this is as much an indictment of the irs as it is anybody. but donald trump can't have it both ways. he can insist that he's going to release the returns,

promised transparency, and then right when for a legitimate legislative purpose and we decide to do that ourselves. >> congressman, on the screen right now, there is a statement released by a spokesperson for trump, talking about this unprecedented leak, they're calling it, by a lame duck democrat. proof they're playing a political game, they're losing. if this injustice can happen to present trump, you can have it all americans without cause. congressman, on that point, we heard more than once, right, this idea of former president saying they're only going to me to try to get you. it's really you all, the american public, they're trying to get to. is there a harmful precedent that could be set by looking at a president's tax returns that could somehow trickle down to the average american, in a way that would cause concern? >> i think we're going to set one president or another. i worry more about the precedent that says we have suspicion that there's something wrong going on. the irs is not doing its job

enforcing the tax laws on the president of the united states. the presidents returns are complex and raise a lot of questions. the president that i want to avoid is congress saying, to add, he's the president. there is one set of rules for people like him and another set of rules for the hundreds of thousands of americans, who for no other reason than getting a child tax credit, are facing an audit by the irs. that is a precedent we -- we don't want to enforce and reinforce this precedent that the people the very top of the economy have their own special set of rules. donald trump has operated as if he was exempt from law for a long time. now he's finally being held to account. >> the top of the economy, or the top of the administration as well. congressman, thank you so much. and please get home safely to michigan. it's going to be cold. it was nice talking to you. i want to turn out his cnn chief congressional correspondent manu raju, and someone who's been reporting on donald trump's finances for not years, but decades, everyone,

david cay johnston is here. he's a lecturer at syracuse law school. manu, let me begin with you. because you have been going through this report and i understand speaker pelosi has been going through the report. what did she say? >> she indicated they plan to move on legislation in response to the report, in response to this investigation by the ways and means committee that found that mandatory presidential audit program under the irs had not moved forward. in the words of the committee, it was dormant during the presidential years during donald trump and didn't act until 2019, when chairman of the house ways and means committee, richard neil, sent a letter in april that year to the irs asking for tax returns. that spawn the audit, they say. that should've been done when donald trump was becoming president in 2017. but it was not done. and as a result, nancy pelosi, and our final days in power here, is indicating they will move forward likely this week

on legislation. they said in a statement the ways and means committee report makes clear the legislative steps that must now be taken to guard the public trust. and we will move swiftly to advance chairman richard neil legislation requiring the internal revenue service that conducted annual audits of the presidents finances. so, expect that to come to the floor here, laura, tomorrow, maybe the day after. but certainly by friday, when the democrats, the final days in power, plan to finish up business and the republicans take control in january. >> manu, i do not envy you in terms of going through this report as well. there's a lot to be learned. it's very dense material. what else are you learning from this actual report, aside from what speaker pelosi intends to do to codify some of the shortcomings we're talking about? >> yeah, there's two separate reports. there's one in the committee's investigation about that annual audit program. this was the one congressman guilty with discussing what you just, out where they found efficiencies in that program. they also showed that in 2018,

the white house press secretary said donald trump was under a mandatory audit. that is not true according to this report. now, there's that separate report, the joint committee on taxation. essentially, nonpartisan number countries that went through donald trump's tax returns from those taxes that had been requested, over six years, as well as his business tax returns as well. they get into detail, analyzing the returns. they say they have no judgment about some of the deductions he took. but they also say that perhaps some of these issues could be looked at further, such as certain charitable deductions, other business deductions he took, suggesting they're not making an opinion either way or another. but some of that could require further exploration. but there's a lot to dig into as we look into these numbers on this report that just came out from the joint committee on taxation. and then we get the actual returns themselves, laura, which will go in much more detail about former president trump's finances. and we should expect that number after some sense of information is redacted within

a number of days. >> the redactions will be very important. david, i want to bring you in here. because as we're learning, right, we've heard there should have been mandatory audits of at least 2017. but there is nothing performed by the irs, under their own rules it seems, until the chairman of this committee started to ask for the information. and then, apparently people got into gear on this. why do you think he was not audited until the chairman of of the house ways and means committee raised the issue in 2019? >> well, donald trump found his nose at the law all the time, including refusing to have his tax returns turned over to congress as required by law that says they shall be turned over on request. i would also point out that the irs commissioner, donald, appointed, and who i've been very critical of is a beverly hills tax lawyer whose specialty is helping accuse of

being tax cheats. so, the six years of returns the committee received, the ruling on the supreme court, only one was put under audit. and that audit is not done. but there's a lot of material here, laura, raising questions about our tax system. >> i mean, how long are audits supposed to take? and i'm not saying i am inviting one. i just want to know, how long are they supposed to? take >> oh, audits in some cases can literally, especially complex corporate ones, can go on for years as the people being audited resist producing the business records to back up what's on their tax returns. and we don't have that in these materials, including the ones that will be released in a few days. what we have is what trump put on his tax returns, not the business records backing up. did he actually make the charitable contributions that he took on this return? did he actually make the interest? did he properly account for the large gifts or loans to family

members and others? you have to have the business records to note that. >> so, i can see where you're going with this. and i often joke around how america's favorite past time isn't really baseball, it's truly litigation. and it seems increasingly so, prosecution on these matters. so, if he didn't do the things you're talking, if the questions raised are actually resulting in criminal responses or criminal allegations, how common are tax crime convictions? i mean, it sounds like there's a lot at stake. >> well, here i hope the people in the audience are sitting down. there are about 160 million tax returns filed each year. there are roughly 500 to 600 convictions. and most of those are drug dealers who don't report their income, politicians who accept bribes, or business owners who bribe politicians. there is no serious effort in this country to pursue high-level tax cheating. a d.c. report, the news

organization iran, three years ago i reported on the top papers, about third koch brothers, who had been under criminal investigation until his next door neighbor donald trump became president and showed how he was collecting more than $100 million a year through what was an obvious illegal scheme. and nothing has happened. the investigation was shut down shortly after trump became president. we make no serious effort to find tax feeding by the people on the top. but if your a wager, we make sure you're absolutely fully tax. there's absolutely nothing you can do to cheat. >> at least two americas it seems you describe just now. manu, i want to bring you in right now. i wonder how republicans are reacting tonight? >> well, we're hearing a lot of republican defense of donald trump, the members of the ways and means committee, the gop side, in fact, all came out of the cameras immediately after this vote and attacked the democrats for moving forward on

this thing. they said there's a differently to move ahead. they said they should have been guarded in secrecy, set to continue to be analyzed by -- behind closed doors by the joint committee on taxation. they intended democrats were weaponizing this all along. and a spokesman person for former president donald trump said in a statement that this is, quote, an unprecedented leak by lame to democrats. he contended they're playing a political game here, they're losing. but it was the result of the legal battle for years that donald trump tried to keep these private, tried to keep the secret, did not want to release it. he lost that legal battle. democrats now in their final days of power, using that power, releasing this information. and now plan to provide even more details of his returns in the days ahead. laura? >> manu, david cay, thank you both so much for this important insight tonight. we've also got uncertainty at the border. the white house asking the supreme court to lift a

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the biden administration just hours ago athens justice department dropped one of the nation's most controversial immigration policies, title 42. it's not clear, by the way, when the court will ultimately rule, even though they did give the deadline of five p m today for the biden administration to respond to the request. but right now, in mexico, thousands wait just across the border. a chance at seeking asylum in the united states is about a few feet away. and the conditions many live in our unthinkable. the options are few and frankly dangerous. meanwhile, u.s. -- to the big apple are bracing. shelters are already packed. supplies are already running out. and the fear the already overwhelming flood of humanity appears poised to double. the biden administration told the court they know dropping a trump era policy known as title 42 will lead to more migrants crossing the border illegally. that's something the system

simply can't handle. our ed lavandera is in el paso, texas. >> as the fate of title 42 remains in legal limbo at the u.s. supreme court, officials here say they are preparing to move ahead as if title 42 is gonna be lifted and preparing for what they expect in a massive surge of migrants at the u.s. southern border, especially here in el paso. so, that means creating more shelter space and getting food and medical supplies into the region as quickly as possible. but as the waiting game continues here in el paso, what we've seen play out today's new levels of political gamesmanship. the day started off with texas national guard soldiers in texas state troopers setting up a nearly mile long chain link fence covered in razor wire at the very point migrants have been crossing into the u.s. to turn themselves into border patrol agents. the county judge here in el paso described this as a political stunt by the texas

governor, and said it's a complete waste of resources. we asked the mayor, who declared a state of emergency over the weekend, what he thought of the chain link fence. he said that the governor's office told him that this would be a three hour training exercise. but now, the mayor says he wants to speak with the governor's office and the department of public safety to understand why exactly this offense is needed. el paso officials expected at the national guard here in el paso would be working in more of a humanitarian role, not an immigration deterrent role. so, quite a bit of controversy surrounding that fans. and essentially, we should also point out, it's simply not working. we have seen throughout the course of the day migrants simply walking around the fence, and then getting back over to the u.s. side. we've also seen migrants going through the chain link fence. so, it was supposed to work walking migrants into the u.s., that is simply not working, laura. >> had lavandera, thank you so

much. and you know, as is often the case at the border, the job of law enforcement is inexorably linked with humanitarian needs. so what's different here is at its core, you have a legal fight, one that is rather unique. think about 19 republican led states demanding the court keep what is essentially a covid lockdown in place. let's discuss now with maria cardona, david berman, and josh campbell, who are all with us today. i'm gonna begin with you josh on this issue. because we're talking about some of the conditions that are being faced by so many. i mean, the idea of the humanitarian needs, there is also the law enforcement angle and what needs to take place and the presence of law enforcement to try to moderate what's happening. talk to me about this tension at play. >> that's one of the key issues and the reason why this is so difficult. you have a humanitarian crisis that is running head on into an enforcement crisis. now, on the humanitarian side, obviously you've got thousands of migrants. many of them have made a

treacherous journeys through south and central america, working the way up to the u.s. border. many of them the victims of crime along the way. and once they reach the border, they're living in squalid conditions and very cold temperatures. so, clearly a humanitarian crisis. and on the flip side, literally on the other side of the issue, on the border, you have an enforcement crisis. you have hundreds of law enforcement officers who are working grueling hours, who are strained. and the fact of the matter is whether or not title 42 is rescinded or not, there will load will continue whether they're expiring migrants are processing them. and one thing is clear, and that is border patrol and immigration custom enforcement, they're not presently equipped, laura, to deal with this issue. we know that border patrol has tried to place up some of their staff, hiring contractors to take some load off enforcement agents in the field. but take a look at the numbers. in the dell rio sector alone, in taxes, the number of migrant encounters recently doubled from seven 1700 3500.

so, we've seen some of those so-called decompression operation for border control are trying to take migrants and high capacity areas and move them to areas where there is more space. but a lot of work to be done there. and finally a point out, laura, you know the so well, federal law enforcement officers are not policy makers. so it is so perplexing to look at officials in washington, the people who could actually solve this crisis, who continue to engage in gamesmanship and push this down the road. there are not actually bringing solutions to the table and action. and it's worth pointing out, they're not the ones who are the key stakeholders there at the border. the migrants who are facing this humanitarian crisis and law enforcement officers who are trying to enforce the law. >> such an important point, josh. and some more figures here. since biden took office, human rights saying it's identified more than 13,000 incidents of kidnapping, torture, rape, or other violent attacks of people who have been blocked or expelled back to mexico under title 42. so, you have the law enforcement angle on the side the border. and then what happens to people who are leaving as well. let me bring in david urban and

maria cardona to our station. maria, you are nodding about this chasm between what's happening on the border and the policy decisions and choices either be made or are available. >> it's heartbreaking, laura. you know, i used to be communications director under what used to be the eye and asked. and i saw this all the time. and what is heartbreaking about this is there can be a fix. to josh's point, the fix is not at the white house. the fix is in congress. congress is the only entity that can actually figure out what we need to do. and it's not rocket science. we have had bills in congress with all of the pieces of legislation that need to be passed in order to put some kind of order at our border and figure out what is the proper flow. we cannot continue this way. and we have a ton of legislators in congress who talk about wanting a solution,

but then run and scream about the border of being in chaos, about the lack of border security, when in fact it is in their hands to work with democrats and mostly republicans are the ones who are screaming about that, democrats have several bills that they would love to have republicans help with incoming together to figure this out. but the problem is you can't do this as a one-off. and you hear republicans say over and over again, we cannot look at anything having to do with citizenship or letting in additional legal migration until we have border security. that is a red flag right there. because what this border security mean? >> it means you have a secure border, maria. it's pretty clear. you have to have some form of security at the border. that people just can't walk across the border. you have to have a wall, a fence, something. so, let me finish. you correctly point out. we do need to effectively address this in a holistic manner. they need to be comprehensive immigration reform. and both parties have kick the can down the road, right.

they've done it for a long time. republicans have tried to kick it down, democrats have kicked it down. this president hasn't even been to the border. the vice president hasn't been to the border. it's a crime what's going on. but you're not going to do. what you can't address any of this until you scan the -- this is like the drug question, do you affect the mannered effect of supply? if people know they can simply walk across the street, if they can walk across the street, they're gonna walk across the street. >> david, what you are describing, your definition of border security there is closing the border. >> yeah, that's exactly correct. >> you can't -- >> why can't you? >> because what you're talking about is closing -- do you know how many legal border points of entry there are? if you're talking about closing the border, you are talking about closing legal commerce to our biggest trading partners, our second biggest trading partners. >> no no no, i'm saying -- >> yes you are. >> what are you saying? >> wade across the water in el paso, texas -- >> when you say that, -- >> you say you should be able

to wade across the water in el paso, texas, walk downtown, and say i'm here? >> you know why yes? because that's illegal, that's illegal. what they're doing is legal. because they're going through a legal court of entry and they're presenting themselves as -- >> they're not going through legally. >> yes. >> they're not illegal crossing there. >> hold on, hold on. i want to hear both of your perspectives. the idea that you are suggesting, that you are suggesting to close the border at all non legal ports of entry -- >> absolutely, absolutely. >> you are saying to close the border broadly would be a crime, especially with asylum. tell me, is there a compromise? >> you can always seek asylum and illegal port of entry. >> do you know what the compromise is? the compromise is the bills that exist right now in congress that democrats have had ready, that frankly president biden has presented the very first day he was in office, because you know what

that helps do, david? it actually brings more resources to the border, to your point, if you are going to keep every single person that wants to go to the border to find asylum or present themselves, you are going to need a heck of a lot more border patrol. so then that's in the bill. additional resources for border security is something the democrats have always championed. but you know what else you need to do? you can't just close the border like you say. because you also have to deal with why these people want to come here, what is the legal flow that we should have, we are desperate for work, we need more workers. and without both of those, david, you will never have a border that will work. >> i'll give you the last word to respond quickly, david. >> so, folks in africa and europe and the far east to have the same problems, economic issues at home, they want to get the united states and have a better life, they can't get on a plane in nigeria, and ukraine, and just simply fly to jfk and show up? you cannot do it.

that border is close. the southern border is not closed. we need to do something about it. and to lay it at the squarely at the feet of republicans is not true. >> both parties need to work together. but democrats have always been the ones that are open to the real solution. >> will agree to disagree. >> republicans have always used as a political football. and that's just the reality. >> this was an espresso anna cappuccino at 10:32 p m. >> we bring it. >> i'm here for it, and it was a great conversation. and what i took away was both parties need to work together. >> david i can solve it, laura. >> there was the scone added to the cappuccino. we'll wait for the next one. coming up next, the kennedy seemingly fakes his resume and gets elected to congress. how did that happen? we'll look into it, next.

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>> well, incoming new york congressman george santos is under fire tonight. frankly, he's been under fire the last two days. why? there was a review by the new york times and cnn that

revealed significant discrepancies in parts of his resume. among those misrepresentations, while, claiming he got degrees at baruch college and nyu. get both schools tell cnn their records don't reflect him ever attending either. santos also claiming he had stints at citi group and goldman sachs. but neither bank has records of his employment. he has not personally yet responded to the allegations. however, his attorney putting out a statement, writing, quote, santos represents the kind of progress that the left is so threatened by. a gate latino immigrant and republican who won a biden district in a overwhelming fashion by showing every day voters there is a better option than the broken promises and failed policies of the democratic party, unquote. now, some democrats are demanding answers and even calling for investigations into the incoming freshman congressman. i want to bring in new york

state democratic chair jay jacobs. welcome to the show. i have a lot of questions about this entire story. of course, it really has been stunning to so many people. jay, i wonder initially, one of the people that comes to mind, just in your title in the democratic state head of chair, many wonder how did this escape in opposition research? >> sure, well, you know, i will tell you there was a fairly comprehensive oppositional research report done. the dccc does those reports. and it has been reported. and i will tell you that a good number of these in were -- did come up in that report. and the campaign tried very hard to get the media attention on some of these things. but because of the fact that i don't think anybody took the santos campaign or george santos himself as seriously it turns out he is, it just wasn't

covered. and there was a lot of other things going on in the media market in new york. so, it isn't for a lack of effort on the part of the campaign to get some of this out. now of course, the new york times report, which i read on monday morning, and i was astounded by, i have to tell you, brought out quite a lot more detail. of course, they've got a lot more resources. but i will tell you that i think the focus really has to be on george santos. and on having him explain, tell everybody that voted for him exactly why it was that he was not honest about his resume. >> it is important, obviously, and you are right to think about him being the person who is rightly and squarely under the microscope. but i just want to be clear. are you suggesting you had some of the information before and it wasn't reported in the media? or you are saying that most of this had not come to light and you are not aware to the opposition research? which is it? >> no, the campaign and the dccc did the report.

i personally didn't get the report. that's not what the state party does. each campaign runs, you know, a more or less independent campaign as such. but i will tell you that they did have, and i spoke with robert zimmerman, who was the candidate for the democratic party on monday morning, just after the story came out, and he explained that some of this, these an accuracies, we're in that report. >> okay. >> and they did try to get them to the media. so it wasn't contempt. and there is this general idea that he had a shady background, weather related to his finances? so those are things that we, or they, for trying to push and get out. but again, the new york times did uncover quite a bit more. >> real quick, what now? i mean, he's going to be sworn into office in january. will republicans be able to do anything? with the constituents in this particular district do anything about it? >> well, he happens to be my congressman. and i will tell you that constituents in my neighborhood

are not happy about it at all. but it really is up to the members of congress. they have the exclusive right to decide whether somebody can be seated, and when seated, whether somebody can be expelled. and given that the republicans are taking over in january, i do not have a great confidence that they are not want to reduce their very slim majority by yet another member by expelling or not seeding george santos. particularly because he's already pledged his support for the speakership of kevin mccarthy. so, i don't see them taking action. what i will tell you is there were so many red flags in that bombshell report by the new york times, i'd be really astonished if there was not some u.s. prosecutors somewhere taking a look at this and, you know, particularly the campaign finance issues, which are really raising eyebrows. how he maintains with what seems to be, you know, a really

weak background in finance, how he could've come up with $700,000 personally to lend to his own campaign, i don't know how that is possible. but people need to investigate that. i think that's his greatest vulnerability, frankly. he may be seated, but i think he's going to have himself a lot of answering to do with some u.s. attorney here maybe in the eastern district will probably be taking a look at this and wanting to know exactly if those campaign finance reports were legitimate or not. because campaign finance fraud is a major, major deal. and they take that very seriously. >> well, we will see, most immediately in the court of the electorate and the court, obviously, of kevin mccarthy going forward. thank you so much. >> well, thanks for having me. speaking of court of law, the justice department put out a very important morning. do you realize that thousands of kids are targeted, and they have been in the past year, with quote, sextortion? i'm not explain what that is,

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>> a very stark public safety alert, the justice department and the fbi, that parents of teenage boys need to be aware of. predators using social media platforms are targeting minors, mostly boys, tricking them into providing sexually explicit photos, and then threatening to release those images unless some sort of a ransom is paid. this is called sextortion. and officials say that at least 3000 minors have already been targeted this year alone. i want to bring in cnn national security analyst juliette kayyem. and josh campbell is also -- josh, we don't often see the u.s. justice department and fbi offering a public safety alert.

-- >> this is federal law enforcement telling parents out there to stop, pay attention, this is important. they are seeing skyrocketing in these online scams targeting kids. and in the scheme, as you mentioned, that is called sextortion, that is seen in so many of these cases, you have a child that is online, on facebook, on instagram, on snapchat. they receive a message from someone -- and it's the typical case that pretends to be a young girl, who engages in conversation over a period of time, sometimes it's hours, sometimes it is days. they convinced these unsuspecting boys to send them some type of romantic photo, telling them i will send one -- sometimes they actually use child pornography to send messages to other kids and what's the victim actually sends that intimate photo of themselves, what typically happens is that the scammer breaks governs as, all, right you now have to pay me, oftentimes thousands of dollars, or i'm going to release this photo to the public, to your friends, to your family, and sadly, what we have seen in so

many of these cases is not just young people paying the ransom, but so many young boys out there in so many cases have been so distraught they have ended up actually taking their own lives. laura. >> it's unthinkable -- only ends when a child either tells an adult or the offender is identified by law enforcement. you are a parent. how do you talk to your kids about online safety in a case like this? and what do you need to tell them? >> you tell -- them if your kid is old enough to be online and understand, that this is very likely to happen, we tend to infantilism our kids in ways that are not good for them and not safe for them. it is better to not be direct. so, for things. i would say, identify that this is actually an issue. we have been aware of it for a little bit but especially for young boys, they need to know that this could be a trap, whatever it is they are doing. you are not going to be able to control everything they do. but they should be aware of it. the second is the extortionist,

they -- the extortionist is the bad person. whatever has happened or might be happening, it's the extortionist who is the bad person. three -- and this is more generally -- talk with your kids in terms of danger, not right and wrong. teenage boys are not going to be receptive to right and wrong. they might be more receptive to danger in terms of, this could be harmful to them, if they do something that is stupid, and if it does happen, and you have that kind of relationship with your kids, make it clear to them that you are the safe haven, that you are not going to judge this. these boys are committing suicide because they feel like they will be judged. and i think that parents have got to get out of the dialogue, that this is dangerous, not right or wrong. >> this is so important. it's this whole saying of -- you don't want your kids to think, oh no, i don't want to tell meng -- i've got to call mom or dad -- >> exactly, no judgment --

>> thank you so much. we will put some resources up now. if you think you or your child was a victim of a crime like this you can go to the to tips.fbi.gov report, report, report, report. we will be right back. a place of many wonders... and d full of life. i open my eyes: earth is our pandora. ♪ ♪ one prilosec otc each morning blocks heartburn all day and all night. prilosec otc reduces excess acid for 24ours, blocking heartburn before it stts. one pill a day. 24 hours.zer. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food.

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