side, shakyra tried to convert joey. [inaudible] you feeling better? you're trying to feel better? pardon me? [inaudible] no you will not die. this is how you know he needs help. and that help was about to come. a good samaritan showing up in a vehicle that could make it through the snow. joey was on his way to the hospital. >> i am right here, joe. shakyra rode with him. >> see, i am right here. are you okay? i love you too, sweetie. you are okay. >> joey arrived at the hospital safely. >> this man could have died. 64 years old, could have died outside. i wouldn't let that happen on my watch, he wasn't going to die in front of my kids. >> joey has severe frostbite and is in the icu in the hospital burn unit. his sister evon telling us it is touch and go whether's hands can be safe but overall he is in stable condition and she is so grateful for shakyra autrey.

>> this woman did something that an angel would do. to take in a perfectly stranger, a stranger. you took him in in your home. on christmas eve. joey's life was saved by a woman who cared deeply about a man she had never met. >> thank you. i am right here. i am right here. >> gary tuchman, cnn, atlanta. the news continues so let's hand it over to alisyn camerota on cnn tonight. alisyn? i am alisyn camerota. >> the january 6th committee putting more new witness testify tonight. stuff we have not heard before, including how mark meadows allegedly burned documents. and, how much talk about qanon there was in the white house. also tonight, the question thousands of angry stranded passengers ask at this hour, what is going on with southwest airlines? why are they subjecting travelers to so much chaos? how are will the airline make it up to those passengers? and the supreme court allowing

that trump-era border policy to stay in place, that is the one that sends migrants back to mexico to wait for their asylum hearings. so what does this mean for the mess at the border tonight? will it change anything? and whose responsibility is it to fix this? we have a lot to talk about tonight. let's start with the new transcripts from the january 6 committee at cnn's justice correspondent jessica schneider. tell us what is in this. >> there are a lot of new details, particularly because one of these transcripts is cassidy hutchinson's final disposition from june 2022. that was actually right after she had fired her trump attorney and her new attorney was letting her correct the record and really tell every truth to the committee. so first off, she told the committee that she saw mark meadows burning documents in his office fireplace around a dozen times, which she guessed amounted to a once or twice a week, all between december 2020 and january 2021. she says at least twice she saw mark meadows burning documents after he met with republican congressman scott perry.

perry meanwhile, he had been subpoenaed by the committee but he never complied. then there is another account, hutchinson says mark meadows actually told white house staffers during the transition that they should keep a close hold on their meetings. so she said he put it this way. i remember him having a meeting with oval office saying, let us keep some meetings close hold. we will talk about what that means, but for now we will keep things real tight and private, so things don't start to leak out. and hutchinson expanded upon that. she said that these meetings were essentially kept off the books. they were out of the oval office diary. essentially you know, there would be no record of these meetings. so alisyn, between this detail and hutchison observing meadows burning documents, a lot of questions, all up more tonight now that this transcript is out about what exactly meadows is trying to hide, and alisyn, really who he might be trying to protect.

>> those are excellent questions. also, how about all this qanon stuff that is come out? how much qanon crazy talk there was in the white house around the president? >> it seems like there was a lot. hutchinson, she talked about these multiple conversations within the white house. where these people seem to endorse these qanon conspiracy theories. so she said the mark meadows, for one, brought it up. also congresswoman marjorie taylor greene may have mentioned it. and then she made this exam to the white house trade advisor peter navarro. she said at one point i had sarcastically said, oh, is this from your qanon friends, peter? because peter would talk to me frequently about qanon friends. and he said, have you looked into it yet, cass? i think they point out a lot of good ideas. you really need to read this. make sure the chief sees it. and then hutchinson said, she later responded to the committee and said, i did not take this as sarcasm. alisyn, navarro has since been indicted for refusing to comply with subpoenas from the committee. but really, cassidy hutchinson here, now that we have 4 complete transcripts from her, we are seeing a ton more details revealed to the

committee then we really previously knew. and that begs the question here, she is cooperating with the justice department. what might she lend to their investigation and what potential criminal charges based on her accounts could potentially lead to? that is something we are going to be keeping an eye on into the new year, alisyn. >> every new revelation contains surprises. jessica, thank you so much for that reporting. i want to bring in cnn legal analyst, norm eilish. counterterrorism adviser phil, mud maria cardona, and all of, former homeland security and covid task force adviser to vice president pence. great to see all of you tonight. norm, i am no lawyer. but burning documents in your office fireplace doesn't sound that. great you know, dozens i think was the word. of course it is hard to know what mark meadows burned. so, how legally damning? >> well alisyn, it is quite legally damning when you are

looking at potential obstruction of justice and you have these badges, these indicators of trying to keep things secret, it is not just burning the documents. a couple of those episodes were after meadows met with congressman scott perry. we know he is in the justice department, bull's-eye, alisyn. they seized his phone. that is another bad sign. then there is keeping the meetings secret. keeping it on the qt. so there's a lot of evidence here that is troubling and it adds to the accumulation that suggests crimes were committed. meadows is one of those that doj is making, receiving criminal referrals from the committee on. now we know more. why? >> olivia, it is interesting, it came up tonight that cassidy hutchinson wanted to clarify or, i guess, expand on, elaborate

on her original testimony. because first, she had a trump supported, trump endorsed lawyer. and then she thought that she was getting bad advice from that lawyer, who basically according to reporting, had told her to not remember certain things. so then she contacted the committee and wanted to clarify some things. here's this clarification. so, the committee asked her, on page 43, lines 9 through 11, you are asked, was their discussion about it needing to happen? it being the rally. before the joint session starting at one pm on january the 6th. you said then, not to my recollection right now. you want to clarify that? miss hutchinson says, after reviewing my transcripts and thinking further into this moment, i do recall conversations about having the rally prior to congress convening on january 6th to certify the results of the election. the committee asks, do you remember why? kelsey huntington says at the

time, i understood the reasoning to be the president desired movement to the capital as congress convened that day. and then list cheney asks her, that the president won't be at the capitol in time for the joint session convene. and miss hutchinson says that's correct, all around. now of course we know what happened at the capitol. so, having been in the administration what do you see when you read through and hear about these transcripts? >> i think cassidy wanted to tell the truth. she was being sort of confined by these trump people around her, who were basically sort of keeping her from doing so. she felt that she needed to come forward and really speak truthfully about what had happened here. i think one of the most striking things is, that conversation that she had with peter navarro. i just want to state this, i actually personally have had those types of conversations with peter navarro. earlier in the year, in 2020, in regards to the covid pandemic. and the q conspiracies he would

bring in, trying to get to the vice president at the time. i used to intercept them and take documents out of his hand, believe it or not. he would say to me, but olivia, have you looked into this? have you looked into hydroxochloriquine, all of these things. i would sit there and i would look at him and i would think, if this actually comes out of the vice president's mouth, are we actually sending this out to the american people? you could kill thousands of people. a lot of these theories were just flat out random conspiracies. to see cassidy talk about that and say, this was a regular occurrence, where he would drop these, walk them into mark meadows, during her tenure, i can speak truthfully that i have dealt with that as well. i know. because i remember mark meadows walking some of these theories into the vice president's office, where i would then have to counter the situation. and as you can imagine, as homeland security or covid task force adviser at the time, this is so out of the realm of possibility that this is something that is happening in the west wing. this is something i never dealt with in my entire national security career.

>> oh my gosh, olivia. that is incredible. you had your hands full, running interference. so that it didn't make it to the vice president's desk. phil, that leads me to you. the qanon crazy stuff that was floating around the president queen marjorie taylor greene, some these transcripts show that she was battling about it, and peter navarro. how gullible are these people to fall for these confuse and then talk about them with the president of the united states? >> boy, this tells me more about, or at least as much about 24 as a tells me about what happened years ago. my point is going to 2016, 2017, when president trump forms a new government, you look at the executive branch and whether you like president trump or not, you look the secretary of defense, general mattis, you look at secretary of state, you look at the counselor to the president, and general kelly, these are serious people who talk about guide rails around the president.

as the presidency proceeds under president trump, you get people like peter navarro talking about qanon, which is nuts. my point about 2024 and the candidacy of president trump going into the next election is, if you take out people like the president in 2016 and 2017 who are bringing rationality into the oval office, and you assume that the next round will be the peter navarros of the world, you tell me what is going to happen during those 4 years. i am not looking forward to that. by the way, cassidy hutchinson, she didn't want to do that. her lawyer told or go in because you have people -- i don't believe her for a harvey. >> what do you mean? what do you mean phil? what don't you believe? >> people are saying she wanted to go correct the record. a new lawyer came who wasn't paid by the trump people who said, the committee has done hundreds of interviews, they have hundreds of pages of transcripts. if you don't correct the record, you are in legal jeopardy. i don't think she did any of us

a favor. i think her lawyer said, you better speak now whether you want to or not, you better speak because you might be in legal jeopardy if you don't. >> i don't trust or for a heartbeat. >> but she did in a providing -- >> i disagree. >> olivia, you can speak to the -- >> she could have. >> i did understand the. >> go ahead olivia. >> i understand the legal aspect of that. and yes, she probably got counseled on that. let me dig into the implications of. that i think we all need to take a step back and understand what we are dealing with here in terms of the intimidation. and remind ourselves of what she also says that these people were going to destroy her and ruin her life, because she watched this firsthand happen to me. when they came out and attacked me. when they went on public tv and tried to destroy me for telling the truth about what was happening. she was inside the white house, living that. so i think that is also part of it, right? just the fear of it. i'm not discounting what phil mudd is saying certainly, but that is also part of the equation. when people come forward and try to tell the truth, it is part of this whole sort of, mob-like trump administration

that may of us had to live, unfortunately. >> yeah. maria, i want to get to you for a second because there is more that has just been released by the january 6th committee. this is from jud deer, who was the press secretary and he says, something that we did not know before, which is that president trump was about to the right thing and concede, but then, i guess, i don't know, i guess he changed his mind. here's what yadier says. in the week after the election there was gossip around the building that he, meaning trump, was considering conceding. even strongly considering inviting the president elect and the incoming first lady to the white house. now he calls it gossip, but i think we had had reporting that it took a while for president trump to fasten upon his new plan to say that, the big lie, there was all sorts of fraud. >> i don't believe it, alisyn. i really don't. one of the things that really sticks out from all of these

transcripts and from the lurid detail that we have gotten from the january 6 committee reporting from the very beginning is that this was not something that was done on a whim. this intention to overturn the election and to lie about winning the 2020 election, that it was all a fraud that was committed upon trump and the american people, it was all nefariously, maliciously planned. not just the lie itself, but literally what to do when joe biden won in terms of making sure that either the vice president was not there to, or was not willing to certify the election on january 6th, the fake electors plan. you don't do that if at some point you really have the intention of conceding and of inviting your, you know, most elaborately vicious enemy that you have made during the presidential campaign over to

the white house, along with the new first lady. i am sorry, maybe it was gossip from people who were trying to push trump into that direction. but i don't believe for a minute that he actually really had the intention of doing it. because the nastiness with which he did everything from the very beginning, in terms of lying to the american people, and still lies about it today, alisyn, is not something that really comes from somebody that had the intention at some point to concede the election in to invite the president elect in the first lady over to the white house. >> yeah. i would say that your skepticism is well founded in terms of all of that. friends, thank you. stick around. i've many more questions for you on all sorts of subjects. because the supreme court says that officials can keep sending migrants back across the border for now. but with desperate people continuing to arrive at that

border every single day, and the border being overrun, what does this change? what is the solution? to our immigration mess. that is next. excited about pronamel repair because it penetrates deep into the tooth to help actively repair acid-weakened enamel. i recommend pronamel repair to my patients. hi, i'm lauren, i lost 67 pounds on golo. i got picked on as a child. it really got to me, so i tried everything there was. golo and release has definitely shown me that there is hope out there.

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and of course, puppy-friendly. we don't like to say perfect, but it's pretty perfect. booking.com, booking.yeah. >> we have news on the border tonight's. the supreme court ruling that title 42, that is the trump era border policy will remain in place indefinitely while legal challenges play out. it was initially set to expire last week, until a temporary hold was ordered by chief justice ron bob roberts. this meets that federal officials will be able to swiftly turn away migrants as they have been allowed to do since the start of the pandemic. this is a victory for republican-led state that urged the high court to step in. president biden said this tonight. >> [inaudible] >> okay, so let's get to leyla santiago.

she is live in el paso. that is the border city that has declared a state of emergency in anticipation of the end of title 42. what is happening leyla? >> well you know, when you talk to the migrants, they are certainly a mood here of disappointment. i spoke to one mother from venezuela, she said she escaped as she's trying to flee violence from venezuela. she made it up here, an intention was to cross illegally, because a title 42 was sent back. she and her two children, one a toddler, crossed illegally for what she is hoping to be a better life. here now, the officials here in el paso are not by any means just waiting to see what happens next. they are continuing with some of their contingency plans, in fact they have 2 schools, 2 vacant schools that they plan to have as shelters for migrants that are coming. on the other side of the border, there is a lot of migrants in mexico. so that is why they say they are waiting to come in.

let me show you what is happening what is happening behind me. i will step out of the ways you can see. we are at a shelter. this is near the church. there are a lot of migrants that are taken to the streets. you will see old men, young men, children, and babies, alisyn, that are under blankets on the sidewalks. now many of these individuals could go to another shelter, the city says they have the capacity. they have availability with beds. but they are fearful. when i talk to them, they say we don't trust getting on any sort of bus because we don't know exactly where we will end up. so, this is an issue that the city is going to have to deal with, despite the supreme court's decision in what has come of title 42. but while this is a win for those republican states, republican governors, and while it is finally a decision that many have been waiting for, just to see what the court decided, there is still very much a feeling of

disappointment, uncertainty, among the migrants and among the city officials, sort of plowing forward regardless because they still know that they could see a potential surge at any time. >> yeah. there's all sorts of uncertainty at this point. leyla, thank you very much for being there and reporting. let's discuss with norm eisen >> and olivia troy also joining us -- scott jennings. norm, what does this change. what changes tonight? the fact that the supreme court has sort of kicked the can down the road, there is still a migrant crisis tonight at the border, as leyla just told us. >> alisyn, the supreme court has continued the trump era policy that is frankly heartbreaking. these are individuals who have come to the border, they have a right under u.s. law, and under international law, to seek asylum.

and they have been turned away, literally by the millions, under the trump era policy, supposedly based on covid. we all know that is not the real reason for it under trump. but despite the fact that, an order that was entered at the peak of the pandemic, those facts have changed. and the district court was right to strike this down. but we have been left with the status quo and this heartbreaking rejection of migrants for many, many months ahead, while the supreme court decides. >> i hear you, norm. maria, i want to come to you. i hear what norm is saying. it is obviously heartbreaking with people from families who are freezing in the cold, who have fled nicaragua and authoritarian regimes. , at least give us what the backlog is in the u.s.. the u.s. is not equipped to handle this number. that is a demonstrable truth. there is 1.6 million asylum applications pending. that is 7 times more than the asylum cases in 2012.

3 out of 10 of them are children. and in el paso alone, they are making something like, i can't even remember, 3500 interceptions a day, they say they are overrun. and so, i understand that it is heartbreaking all around, but what is the solution? >> i am so glad you brought this up, alisyn. because those numbers that you just mentioned are heartbreaking. because it does demonstrate that our immigration system is absolutely broken. but you know what happened under 4 years of donald trump? they proceeded to systematically dismantle and destroy any kind of legal asylum processes and procedures that existed. they proceeded to close off any known asylum legal ways that migrants could come and ask for asylum under u.s. law. they proceeded to cut off any aid to western hemisphere countries that were dealing with migrants who wanted to flee their countries and come to ours.

they proceeded to implement a heartless, cruel and inhumane policy that ripped babies from the arms of their mothers, so what happens is now, when the biden administration came in, they were dealing with a completely destroyed immigration system. you know what needs to happen? members of congress, both republicans and democrats, need to come together to fix this. the first thing that president biden did in office was offer a comprehensive package of legislation that increased resources to the border by the billions to secure the borders. you hear that republicans? in addition to focusing on legal pathways, in addition to more asylum ways for migrants to come here legally. we need workers here. let's do this. republicans need to stop using this as an excuse to exercise their xenophobic and the

racism. -- >> i want to get scott in here. it is true that president biden did offer that up on the first day of office. scott, what is your response to this? >> i mean, you ask maria what is the solution was, she spent 5 minutes whining about donald trump, who hasn't been the president for 5 years. the reality is joe biden has failed. kamala harris, who is supposed to be in charge of this, has failed. the administration has been dishonest with the american people. the biden administration doesn't want border security. if they did, they wouldn't be in court suing arizona governor ducey who tried to pick up shipping containers to block the human gap. >> scott, i hear you. the only reason i'm interrupting is because you he say the biden administration's failed. isn't it congress? what do you want biden to do? >> i want him to secure the border. i want them to support the border patrol. ask border patrol agents if they feel supported by this administration. yes, i want them to exercise

some leadership. not every single person who shows up here at our border is a refugee. i know that is the position of maria and the democrats and the biden administration, but we can't take on the entire population of all of central america and just say well, these are all refugees. you said it yourself. we have a massive backlog. we cannot possibly process this. the supreme court today saved biden from himself. you have to forgive a judge for being confused about the biden position. because one day they're claiming the pandemic is still going on to relieve student debt, today the solicitor general is in court saying, well, we know the pandemic is over, let's and title 42. you cannot have it both ways. it is confusing and it is dishonest. >> yeah. olivia, there is also a lot of politics around this in frustration. but i just keep looking for the solution and i don't know what it is. because congress won't, i mean, congress has failed, administration after administration, on this. it is not just biden and it wasn't just trump. congress has not done anything about this.

>> yep. i'm listening to all of this and i'm thinking, it is always been ping-pong. i'm a person that grew up on the border. i grew up in el paso. this is my home town. they've shouldered this burden for years now. i've seen this firsthand. is it a tough issue. i see ping-pong between democrats and between republicans as well. look, great. go to the border, go and visit. i saw this during the trump administration numerous times, with republicans going to the border, looking at people in cages like they were sitting animals and ducks. what did that do? did we resolve anything? no. and then we talk about this migration crisis that is coming over, these people that are coming over, not all of them refugees, and not all the needed. but also doing that from these people are terrace crossing the border. i also had to defuse that talking point. because factually, the intelligence community remind people that that was just not true. but to all of the points -- >> thank. you >> would title 42, i, mean it was not meant to be a public health measure when it was

enacted in the trump administration. i know that for a fact, because i've lived it. and the head of the global migration and the cdc never signed off on it, by the way. they're blindsided. and i know this, because in those meetings with stephen miller. and was an anti immigrant policy that wasn't acted, bottom line. and it was ramed through and it remains today. so i actually think it is pretty shameful that the supreme court upheld this ruling because it is a policy decision, that is based on a policy that is not correct today. so all these things, i think, it is congresses. people need to come together instead of using migration and immigration as a political talking point from both sides of the house. if you really want to get there. but there is no incentive when you can bust people around the country and drop them off at the vice presidents on christmas eve and claim that is a win. you know, i was looking at that i was thinking to myself, how would mike pence, what would he felt like if somebody had dropped off the migrants at his residence when he was there? as a christian right? to see them freezing the cold like that. is that okay? is that where we are right now? is this is how we are looking

at solutions to the migration crisis? i think if we don't actually start of serious conversations despite crisis isn't going away anytime soon. cities like el paso, my hometown are gonna -- >> out of time. really have to move on. we have all given great perspectives, olivia, so helpful from you having been in the room. we will continue to talk about this because, we are not clearly helping the migrants who are freezing right now. we are also not figuring it out. so thank you very much all of you. we will talk about this, if you are trying to fly somewhere, right now, good luck. dozens of flights canceled yet again today. now the transportation secretary is calling out southwest. we will tell you what they plan to do about that.

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both to get them through the -- situation and to make sure this can't happen again. >> this is a deep failure of management not to have supported its i. t. infrastructure. so >> i don't know where my

luggage is at. the >> travel chaos leaving mountains of lost luggage. in las vegas, a sea of unclaimed bags, some passengers are told it will be days before they can get their luggage. >> denver's airport leading the nation in terms of delays and cancellations. passenger nick vazha has been stuck here since december 21st. >> i will never fly southwest airlines again, i will tell everyone i know not to fly south elastic airlines again. >> why is that? what you want them to do different? >> you can't leave people stranded for 8 days and just say it is the weather, when it is not the weather. what a difference a day makes alisyn. yesterday, the line for southwest was sneaking around the corner. very few people behind me right now but it does not mean that southwest problem are over you. heard that apology video from the ceo, bob jordan. you know he used, a lot of

words to basically say that the airlines could be flying at a reduced schedule next few days. he hopes to get back on track before next week, but a lot of people aren't here frankly because they have given up. a lot of the luggage has yet to be reunited with customers. this is unfortunately going to be a vacation to remember for all the wrong reasons. alisyn. >> you are so right lucy. that is the story of our next guest. we now want to bring in monica van he does, a southwest passenger who got caught in -- during christmas, trying to get home to texas from las vegas. monika, thanks so much for being here. as i understand it, you spent 11 hours on christmas day in the vegas airport, trying to get home. what was that experience like?

>> it was just really hard. my father passed away on christmas. it was a very hard day to be traveling, and so i just -- and to just experienced delay after delay, it was just really heartbreaking and, but so many of the other people had it worse than i did. there were people that were elderly, just getting into wheelchairs and parents with small children. overall, people are just trying to help one another make the most of it. but it was just really an unacceptable situation. >> you really start to hear about your father, first of all that sounds awful. you did send this video of the things that you are seeing. i mean, all of the people who were stranded, including as you said elderly people, people were just languishing there in

the waiting room. what was southwest telling you? >> we -- very excited. then eventually, we were just told, it would be 5-10 minutes that, 5-10 minutes became half an hour, became several hours. we were just being told that we needed one more crew member. then, when that one crew member got there, we got an agent who is very quiet and was trying to help. just said that she had to call, and wait on the phone, just like everyone else is, to try and get us off the ground. so it was really hard for the southwest employees -- as well as the passengers, it was just an awful situation. >> it looks like it. that video that you sent us. it is just a sea of people. nobody going anywhere. people as far as the eye can see. so ultimately, your story is that it took you 26 hours to

get from vegas to corpus christi. back home. i know that you want to be compensated somehow. by southwest, for the hotel that you had to rent the, different transportation that you had to take tune from the airport, the food that you had to buy. how much, what is the price tag of everything that you injured during this ordeal? >> i mean, luckily for me, i think it is going to end right around maybe 300-500 dollars. i have family members that are spending upwards of almost 100 dollars to get home from various destinations. so the stories will vary. but overall, it is just a really, really unacceptable situation, that southwest keeps using the weather as a scapegoat for their outdated scheduling software. when no other major u.s. airline has at the level of destruction that they've had. >> if southwest can get away with paying you just 500 dollars for what you endured, that is a bargain i would say. but we will keep in touch monica, and find out what happens with you. take care of yourself. >> thank you, thanks for having me on. thanks >> for being here. okay, so what is it like to be dealing with thousands of angry customers? calling you out? while the out of southwest flight attendant units going to join us next. for their frustrations.

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with qualifying internet. so why is southwest airlines having such a trouble meltdown? the other mayor the jury u.s. carriers got back in business fairly quickly after the snowstorms.

southwest has been around for more than a half century. it used to pride itself on its top ranking customer satisfaction. by the transportation department. liz montgomery heads the flight attendant union for southwest. she joins us tonight. lynn, thanks so much for being here. i know it has been a busy day. what has this spin, this meltdown been for the flight attendant didn't? >> it has been absolutely horrific. the most despicable working conditions you can imagine. you know, flying during the holidays is already a challenging time, even on a normal year. it is filled with busyness and wanting to be with your family and hustle and bustle that creates a lot of stress. so it is really, really difficult with this happening. >> when you say despicable flying conditions, what is it like? i mean, are they stranded at various airports? we just heard from a passenger that took 26 hours to get home. our flight attendants also stranded? >> yes. flight attendants have been stranded. not only up they've been

stranded, they have been left to try to contact crew scheduling for an hours on end. we have flight attendant sending us their screenshots of how long they've been on hold. we have anywhere from 3-17 hours of having to wait on hold. just to find out what your next assignment is going to be. what your next flight needs to be, where your hotel assignment might be. i mean, that is really despicable to have to wait that long. >> it is unconscionable. but what is the problem? what is going on with southwest? why is this happening? >> it has been reluctance of many years for southwest airlines not to invest properly

and its i. t. systems. in fact, d. w. you, local 556 have indicated over the years that they need to invest in as many that -- one of these major disasters, that just happened. it is happening over and over again, each time it gets worse and worse and worse. and, as you can see, now it is creating a huge implosion that is completely unacceptable. >> so lyn, just so i understand this, in other words, southwest does not have an up-to-date phone system? it doesn't have an up to date i t equipment? the other airlines have outpaced in terms of modern technology, is that the problem? >> there is i. t. systems that southwest airlines use that are unique to southwest airlines. they would be able to reschedule the operation when massive cancellations occur. however, in our ceo has reported to us and our ceo as reported to us, they can't keep up with the demand. these systems can't do things quickly enough. we have been promised that they are putting enough into the systems, they have spent enough money, but they started so lay in trying to update the systems, that even all those efforts haven't come out to make any reasonable changes. >> the ceo of southwest

airlines, tonight but out a statement, he said i've nothing but pride and respect for the efforts of the people of southwest who are showing up every day and every way. i am apologizing to them daily, they will be hearing more about our specific plans. in the future. what do you want from him? >> we are so tired of apologies. we are so tired of southwest airlines just getting through one major catastrophe and then going on to the next one and saying oh, we are sorry again. please get an action plan. we need to see an investment. we need to know what people are going to be, what he is going to be using it to the best in the world technology that southwest airlines couldn't buy should come and help us figure out what the systems need to be. we also need to know when the go lived it is going to be.

it is also important for southwest airlines to remember that its workers and its employees are the heart of the company. we are the ones who really helped to make this company successful in the 90s. and here today. and they need to start investing in their employees. again, like they used to. they have completely and banded that. we have been in contract negotiations with them since 2018. its pilots as well. and we are having to beg and plead for them to make the necessary changes. >> for these infrastructures to be remedied. >> well, i hope that he is listening. he is also invited on our program here. anytime, he has so far declined our invitation. but lyn it, doesn't sound like what you are asking for is unreasonable. thanks so much for your time. we really hope that the flight attendants can get what they need to get back to work as effectively as possible as well. thanks so much for being with us tonight. >> thank you. >> it's a company that has designed more than 900 power stations. thousands of miles a power systems. they also handle nuclear security issues. they work with the defense department. and they just have been hacked. who is targeting this country's energy grid? how vulnerable is orange regret? all that is next.

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>> okay, now a troubling story. hackers stole data belong to multiple electrical utilities and saw covert ransomware attacks on a u.s. government contractor that handles critical infrastructure projects across the country. this is according to a memo describing the hack that it's been obtained by cnn. the contractors, chicago-based sergeant and lucky, it's an engineering farm, designed more than 900 power stations and thousands of miles of power systems. that firm also worked for the department of defense, energy, and other energy agencies to strengthen nuclear deterrence. so this news comes just days after an attack on for power substations in washington state that left thousands of people in the dark on christmas day,

as well as another of attacks on power stations across the country over the last few months. joining us now to discuss this is phil mudd. thank you for coming back. does it sound like these are isolated incidents to you? >> no, i kind of look at this in a few categories. the first to figure out is these attacks that we've seen recently, the anti government, people who don't like government or big utilities, you go a step up and you get into criminal organizations that are conducting ransomware, that is stealing stuff or shutting down a system in telling a company or contractor they want millions of dollars to get that system back up and running. i guess the thing i worry about when i see all of these events going into this century is

looking at the chinese, the russians, the iranians who have to be reading u.s. newspapers and watching cnn, and try to understand how much they may have stolen or compromise over the past decade and what they would do if they got it. we really don't know the answer to, that alisyn. >> i don't like that, phil. i don't like hearing that. because that's -- shutting down our electrical grid, we always hear, that it's sort of an abstract anxiety that we have. maybe our electrical grid or our power grid is bone-able. but it's starting to feel like i'm reporting on this a lot. it's starting to feel like something is picking up the pace with this. >> i think so. and i think as someone who worked in government for a long, time there's something behind the scenes that would trouble me. the first is if you're the department of homeland security or department of defense, how

do you plan for a massive outage that might be orchestrated by someone like russia or china? i'm not suggesting that would happen. i'm thinking about, for example, ukraine, if something unpleasant happens with the russians in 24, 25, 2026, how do you plan for that? how do you deal with u.s. consumers who are not lose power? we lost power in the house i'm in in memphis early in the week for 11 hours. and i will tell you, it was freezing after 11 hours. and the second is how you coordinate not just with the government, but with private companies that are going to be reluctant to share data about how they are vulnerable. how do you force those companies to say, i don't care if it's embarrassing, you're going to share that data, because we've got to figure out how to address this. >> you are the law enforcement genius. how do we protect against all of that? yes phil, genius. >> can we roll that tape again? [laughter] >> surely, you are in meetings where there was a plan, i hope, for this. >> sort of. but i will tell you the problem here is, and you see it in the case or talk about it a moment of go, you are not dealing with the defense department or homeland security, you're dealing with a contractor or a-, for example, t people for example, t people o an required tand wa that is no here's what yo that ibreachhabut cn report it now. so i hear what you're saying. all right phil, i hope you have lots of logs for the fire season get conked out there in memphis. thank you so much for being on. >> thank you, and i'm happ be ai'll se>> i mlater thatmeans they left thousands in the balance, so much uncertainty, it's president biden's plans for immigration. we have much more about what's happening at the border, next.

>> tonight, the biden administration will not be allowed to let a trump era border policy expire. supreme court says that title 42 must remain in effect until the legal challenges play out, which could take until june. title 42 is that measure that's allowed federal official to quickly expel migrants, ostensibly because of the pandemic. more now from cnn white house reporter priscilla albert. >> alisyn, this ruling is ultimately a victory for republican-led states that

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