of her testimony. she was always an interesting witness, given she's married to a supreme court justice. you've been digging through testimony from tony ornato, served as deputy white house chief of staff. what did he tell the committee? tony ornato came up because we got that bombshell testimony from cassidy hutchinson, when she told how irate donald trump was he couldn't go to the capitol on january 6th. tony ornato when he talked to the committee didn't recall all kinds of things. he didn't recall trump being angry. he didn't recall the motorcade. he didn't remember things that way. when it came to january 6th, the committee said, do you remember people trying to get donald trump to say something, to make a public statement. and tony ornato compares it to the fall of war. he says, i'll be honest with you. it was chaotic. it was late information or it

wasn't accurate or it was the fog of war and it was misrepresented. it was a very, very chaotic day. so, i don't recall those specific details. ornato's attorneys previously told us they felt like he was cooperative with the committee, he was honest with the committee. but the committee went out of their way in their final report to question ornato's testimony multiple times. >> sara murray staying busy this friday night. hopefully you get a break over the weekend with the transcripts. coming up, we remember the four students killed in idaho university and head back to idaho for the latest on the suspect arrested for their murders.

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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com an arrest in the murders of four college students brutally stabbed to death almost seven weeks ago. and new details tonight about the events leading up to the arrest. a law enforcement source tells me authorities were tracking bryan kohberger at some point during his cross country drive from idaho to pennsylvania around christmastime. he went from idaho to his parents' house in pennsylvania, where he was arrested today. kohberger is a 28-year-old graduate student.

he attended washington state university near where the four victims attended college. cnn's veronica miracle has been following the story since it broke and joins us from idaho. police are asking the public to call in and provide any tips or information regarding that suspect. what kind of information are they hoping to get? >> reporter: well, pamela, today authorities made clear that this investigation is far from over. they also credited the nearly 20,000 tips that they received from the public as giving them information to get to those strong leads that led them to the suspect now that they have that suspect in custody, bryan kohberger. they're asking people not only in this community but across the country if they know this man, if they've had any interactions with him, and if they have any information about his background. they say the tipline remains open. they want to hear from the public. they also say now that they have this arrest, it's not just about an arrest, but it is about getting that conviction. pamela? >> and you've been following the story from the very beginning.

it's been seven weeks since the murders. how is the community of moscow, idaho, feeling tonight? >> well, the sense of relief is just palpable, pamela. when we were here earlier during the time when the police were really not releasing a lot of information, there were students who were leaving the university of idaho to study virtually because they were so scared. there were businesses that were closing early so that their employees could get home at a reasonable time. and the police presence was massive. there was idaho state police, moscow police officers, private security that were not only patrolling campus, but they were all over town. and it's really hard to feel comfortable when there's just this edge of a lack of safety around the community. and today, walking around town, you can just feel everyone relax just a little bit. we even spoke to members of the community who showed up to the press conference because they wanted to hear for themselves exactly how this all unfolded.

we were speaking next to a woman who sat next to me. she's a door dash driver, so she's been on edge, as she's been going out at night making those deliveries. and she got emotional when she was talking to us. even though she's not connected to this case, she said she's been watching it and tracking it. here's what she had to say. >> i feel relieved, very relieved. we all do. everybody -- our neighbors, our friends, we've told -- yes, we're all relieved. >> and pamela, this arrest comes on the same day that the families of madison mogen and kaylee goncalves held a celebration of life about an hour and a half north of here. this has been planned for a couple of weeks. the families wanting to honor the loved ones. they wanted to bring everyone together. of course all of this happening on the same day an arrest has been made. pamela? >> wow. veronica miracle, thank you so

much. and i'm joined now by cnn's jean casarez, who is right outside the correctional facility in pennsylvania, where the suspect is being held. you've been talking to your sources and you're learning new details about how police zeroed in on the suspect. what more can you tell us? >> it has to do with the dna because a source familiar with the investigation tells me that it is genetic genealogy that led them to identify, in part, this suspect. and genetic genealogy, they found dna because we know that -- and that was unknown dna, i am told. so, the unknown dna routinely is put through a codis database to see if there's a hit. if there's no hit, it's still unknown. that's when genetic genealogy comes in. you then can take it to a public database of dna, and you can see if there are any familial family hits. it can be distant relatives. but that's your starting point right there. and then you do old fashioned

investigative work to find who you believe is your potential suspect. but you obviously, before any arrest, you have to get the actual dna from that potential suspect to do a match with your unknown. and when that matches, when you have a hit, you can make an arrest. and once they have done, we believe that procedure, that is when they went to a judge in idaho, and it was yesterday, to get the arrest warrant. the charges were filed yesterday in idaho. and they have been surveilling him right here in northeastern pennsylvania -- i'm talking about the fbi out of philadelphia -- for four days. and this is his home. we heard that in the press conference today. this is where he lives. he may be doing graduate work in the state of washington, but this is where he lives. and so once they got those charges filed, the pennsylvania state police went to obrightsville, about eight miles north of here, a very rural area

in northeast, pennsylvania. and at 1:30 this morning they made that arrest. they brought him here to the monroe county correctional facility. he had a court proceeding earlier today, no bail at all. the next proceeding will be on tuesday. >> so, at this point we don't know when he could be extradited to idaho, right? >> no. it's really in his hands because if he waves extradition at this hearing on tuesday then as soon as they are able to get him there, they will. it can take some time, or they can get him there immediately. but if he does not waive extradition, that is when the governor of idaho must step in and start the proceeding so that it becomes a mandatory situation. and it's important because his first court appearance in idaho is waiting for him as soon as he gets there. and there is a probable cause affidavit, we learned today, in idaho about many more alleged

facts of this investigation. it will not be unsealed until after his first court appearance in that state. >> gjean casarez, thank you. perspective now from retired fbi special agent and charles ram see, a former philadelphia police commissioner and chief of police in washington, d.c., and lawrence kobe lynn ski, forensic scientist at john j. college of criminal justice. chief ramsey, i want to start with you. a law enforcement source told me tonight that at some point during the suspect's cross country drive that law enforcement started tracking him. and they were able to really zero in on him around christmas whrks he arrived at his parents' house in pennsylvania. i'm told that law enforcement was also surveilling his parents' house. it was a combination of dna evidence and the car that led to the suspect being identified. tell us a little bit more about how a law enforcement operation on this scale comes together. >> well, i tell you, you know,

it'll be interesting to find out exactly what it is they did when they said that they tracked him all the way from idaho to pennsylvania. were they tracking his cell phone? did they have that? were they using toll booths that he may have gone through, as he was traveling? did they actually have an eyeball on him? w where they actually identified the car and him and tailed him all that way. i don't know the answer to that. but it'll be interesting. apparently they began to narrow things down on him a while back. but they didn't have enough to really name him as a suspect. so, it'll be interesting. we'll find out more over the next few days, i'm sure. >> yeah, because i'm told by my law enforcement sources that it was really last week when it was coming together, bobby, that they figured out, okay, this is who we're looking for. this is our guy. then, of course, they made the arrest today. help us better understand what was going on during that time

and why, if law enforcement was confident last week they had their suspect, why they waited until today to make that arrest? >> well, that's a question that's -- that's a decision that's normally made in conjunction with prosecutors in idaho who are handling this case, which is a potentially death penalty case. i'm sure there's a lot of review before steps are taken legally. once charges are filed, then you have a speedy trial motion. everybody is entitled to a speedy trial. you have to really have all your ducks the in a row. i think once they assessed him, once they started surveilling him, is he going to leave the country, does he have the means to do that, is he the type to do that, once they had him on surveillance, they were a little more comfortable knowing they were sourcing everything out. jean was right. they did a dna sample to the genealogy website which led to his father which led to him.

once they knew who he was and he had a white elantra rej gistere to him, bells started going off. i think they waited until the right moment. and, again, this is more of a prosecutor's decision than it is the investigative team because they need everything in a row. he will now be extradited. he can fight extradition, but it's a losing battle. the only issue in that hearing, in the extradition hearing, is identity. we refer to them as identity hearings at the federal level. that's, are you the person named in that warrant? he's going to lose that. and he would be better advised to waive extradition, and he'll be removed back to idaho fairly quickly. i wouldn't be surprised if he's back there wednesday of next week. >> we'll have to wait and see what happens on that front. professor, i want to bring you in. as reported, the suspect's dna was found at the scene. i'm told by my source, this was a significant part leading to

the arrest. tell how investigators use that dna to determine if this suspect is in fact the killer. >> well, most laboratories don't use this kind of technology, this genetic genealogy. there may be dna found under or on the fingernails of the victim, or there may be dna mixed in the blood stains between the victims and perpetrator. one thing is clear, that mr. kohberger matches -- his dna matches the dna at the crime scene. so, in terms of litigation, there's really no question that he was there. now, how they caught him is another story. i say, follow the evidence. and the evidence is dna. the evidence is the vehicle. now, there were lots of videos of that vehicle, not only near the house where the event

occurred. but the police looked at other videos, and they may have gotten a glimpse of the license plate. and they may have tracked that vehicle with plate readers or at toll booths and followed that vehicle, as it made its pathway 2,500 miles all the way to pennsylvania. with respect to dna, i think that was explained fairly well, that this is a matter of not codis because codis is a national database. you have to commit certain crimes to become eligible to have your dna put on codis. it's not clear that he was on codis. >> he wasn't. >> you can find close relatives sometimes that way. but with genetic genealogy, it's a different pathway. you're looking at public data databases. you know, people join ancestry or one of those other companies to find out about their backgrounds. and that -- really people don't

expect that it's going to be used for criminal matters. but nowadays, the companies are warning people ahead of time that it may end up -- this information may end up solving crimes. and some very serious, major crimes have been solved with this technique. it's still controversial because not everybody wants this to become generally available in all laboratories. and it's not. so, this is one of those wonderful situations where a serious, major killer has been caught with genetic genealogy. this is correct. we didn't hear this today. this wasn't brought out in the press conference, in the press release. >> yeah. it was really fascinating. i've covered murder cases, doj, for many, many years. and it's just really fascinating to learn that this was such a big piece of the puzzle, using this genealogy to help track the

suspect. we'll continue to cover this case. bobby, charles, lawrence, thank you for your analysis and perspective. and in a moment, we'll remember the four young victims of this horrible crime, the lives they led, and the joy they brought to their families and friends. julian's about to learn that free food is a persona eating trigger. no it isn't. yes it is. and that's just a bit of psychology julian learned from noom weight. sign up now at noom.com my a1c stayed here, it needed to be here.

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(burke) happy anniversary. (customer) for what? (burke) every year you're with us, you get fifty dollars toward your home deductible. it's a policy perk for being a farmers customer. (customer) do i have to do anything? (burke) nothing. (customer) nothing? (burke) nothing. (customer) nothing? (burke) nothing. (customer) hmm, that is really something. (burke) you get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. see ya. (kid) may i have a balloon, too? (burke) sure. your parents have maintained a farmers home policy for twelve consecutive months, right? ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ before we get back to the investigation, we want to spend a few moments honoring the lives of the four university of idaho students who died. xana kernodle was 20 and studying marketing. her sister told cnn that you rarely get to meet someone like her. quote, she was so positive, funny, and was loved by everyone who met her. her boyfriend, ethan chapin, was

20 and majoring in recreation, sport, and tourism management. he was one of a set of triplets enrolled at the university of idaho. his mother said he, quote, lit up every room he walked into. kaylee goncalves and madison mogen were both 21. kaylee's sister has issued a statement on behalf of both families. she says they were both, quote, smart. and called them vigilant. kaylee was majoring in general studies. madison was studying marketing. i'm joined by chief law enforcement analyst john miller and federal prosecutor jennifer rogers. john, we learned the suspect is being represented by a public defender. but we don't know what, if anything, he has said to police. how does law enforcement go about interviewing a suspect accused of a crime like this? and how difficult does it become once they're lawyered up? >> first thing you do is ask.

right before that, you advise them of their rights, which begins with, you have the right to remain silent and the right to have an attorney present. so, it depends if he decided to talk or not talk. it would be surprising to me, as someone who's going for a phd in criminal justice, that he would be open to speaking to police officers upon being taken into custody. he drove all the way from idaho to pennsylvania, theoretically -- if you believe the allegations -- to get away from the scene, get that car away from the scene after everybody was looking for a white elantra. we don't know if he made statements yet. once he's represented by counsel, police can't talk to him. >> but so really quickly on the white elantra, if he's getting a phd in criminology, why would he continue to drive the white

elantra from idaho to pennsylvania, especially -- assuming he knew it was all over the air waves. you know, this picture was publicized across the country, right? and jennifer, i'll get to you right after. go ahead, john. >> i mean, interesting question. on the one hand, what do you do with it? if you leave it in idaho, it's sticking out like a sore thumb. if you show up at home without it, you know, your parents may ask, where's our elantra. so, i think he made a calculated decision, which is, let me get it to the other end of the country, where nobody's looking for it, and maybe invest some time. it's possible if the allegations are true, as alleged, that he may have wanted to take a second crack at cleaning it up. >> jennifer, how closely will idaho prosecutors be working with law enforcement in pennsylvania in how they handle this suspect? >> well, very closely, pamela. i mean, as john was just saying, they could have taken a crack at questioning him, but i doubt

that would have been done without the cooperation of the folks who know this case best. and those are the local police, who have been working the investigation from the beginning. they'll be along every step of the way. it's unlikely there will be any sort of substantive hearing that gets into the evidence in pennsylvania. either the suspect will waive extradition or even if he goes through extraditional proceedings, it's more about his identity than anything else. i suspect the idaho folks don't have to really fly out to pennsylvania, if they're not already there. soon enough, the suspect will be back in idaho, and they can continue working on their investigation. among other things, i'm sure they're busy trying to establish a motive for these crimes. >> yeah. and on that note, john, it's super interesting. as a program, "360" doesn't usually name suspects or killers because we don't want to glorify them. the reality in this case is that law enforcement is pleading with the public, asking for more information, or any details on this suspect. does that tell you, they still have a lot to learn about their suspect and motive.

>> so, they've been very up front about that, pam, saying anybody who has any information on this individual to come and tell us, which tells us something. what it tells us is they allegedly have something that ties him to the crime scene in terms of dna and that car, which was seen in the area. but they don't really have a complete understanding of motive. that's why they're reaching out to other people to say, can you tell us things he said? can you tell us things he was interested in? did he ever make any comments before the crime or particularly after the crime that would be relevant? i mean, they want all of that because what they really needed to do was get him located and get him in custody once they had probable cause. they're building behind that now. >> right. because they have to be careful before he's arrested to not speak to anyone who knew him, who could tip him off. i imagine there's a lot of sensitivities around that. so, now that he's arrested, there will likely be more

opportunity to gather information about him. and i'm told that from a law enforcement source tonight, one of the keys is trying to figure out if he had any connection to these victims. right now, they don't know. prosecutors, though, jennifer, they -- look, they believe they have their suspect. they're just building their case. we'll have to wait and see what happens. thank you so much jennifer rogers, john miller, appreciate it. up next, former president donald trump's tax returns are now public. we're going to talk with one of the key lawmakers who got those records released. we'll be right back. subject 1: on christmas day, we were in the hospital.

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among the many revelations of former trump's tax returns

released today are that he paid only $750 in u.s. taxes in 2017, while paying nearly $1 million in taxes to foreign countries that year. joining us now is democratic congressman loyd doggett of texas. he sits on the house ways and means committee. congressman, you made the first motion to acquire the former president's taxes nearly five years ago. does it surprise you it took this long. >> it's really outrageous. he had so many accomplices in the congress, house republicans who refused to let us take a look at these returns even in private years ago. you know, many years ago, there was another new york city hotel mogul who declared taxes are for the little people. and i think that's kind of the trump idea. he thinks it makes him smart that he pays less of his income, a lower rate on his income, than the weigaiter or the maid or th

maintenance person that works in one of his hotels. i think that's outrageous. when he got to be president, he put a couple of his buddies in charge of the revenue department and the internal revenue service, and they don't do the audit that was done on other presidents until they get a letter from the ways and means committee, that waited a ycoupl of years to do that. we know the trump internal revenue service didn't do its job. and there's good reason to believe that donald trump owes far more taxes than he's paid. but we don't have the details because we don't have the audits that should have occurred. >> what do you make of that, that the audits that should have occurred didn't occur? >> it's difficult to determine because the -- all we have are the electronic records. there was no conversation permitted with anyone at the internal revenue service involved in the actual audit. but there are some indications that this was irregular.

only one auditor for 500 entities, an auditor who said that there was not enough in the way of resources, an auditor who said, well, if they've got an accounting firm doing this, we don't really need to see substantiation for all the claims of losses and deductions and credits that trump claims. one thing after another. it could indicate that there was direct interference. it might indicate that there was only indifference. >> your committee held a vote on the release of these returns. was there any dissent among democrats, any arguments against these returns being made public? >> well, we had a lively discussion about this. i think that there's certainly a sensitivity on the part of democrats to protecting taxpayer privacy. but we recognize that all we were trying to do with trump is what other presidents had done, and that he had resisted, and that the president is in a truly unique situation.

so, when the votes came, after we discussed it thoroughly, every democrat voted in support of chairman neal's report and to release this information to the public so that everyone could see, this isn't just a partisan initiative. you can see for yourselves the fact that this president signed a tax return -- you'll see his signature -- where year after year, he paid nothing or paid $750, and where he claimed huge losses in the past. we don't have the details on those losses. "the new york times" did great work on this years ago. and they suggest it may be a part of his losing his atlantic city casinos. but whatever they are, they were used to wipe out profits that he had and to justify paying little or no taxes. it's also the entanglement there is. we do know he paid some years

more taxes to foreign governments than he did here in the united states. but because we only looked at eight of the 500 entities werks don't know what other influences may have occurred from overseas on trump's operations. >> right. and that's a big reason why there were calls for transparencies, for people running for president to release their tax return so, that you can see if there's any conflict of interest, if their policy could be influenced by anything that could be picked up on the tax returns. congressman dog get, thank you so much for coming on the show. thank you. new transcripts of january 6th committee testimony. why ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, says she has regrets. introducing the new sleep number climate360 smart bebed.

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tonight, new transcripts show ginni thomas testified she regrets texts that she sent to mark meadows about voter fraud in 2020. and she testified, quote, i regret the tone and content of these texts. i really find my language imprudent and my choice of sending the context of these emails unfortunately. i want to bring in david urban, former trump campaign adviser, and david gergen. we learned in emails that jared kushner provided to the january 6th committee that former

president trump wanted to trademark the phrase "rigged election," just days after the election. does that surprise you that he would want to own the rights to that phrase? what do you think? >> it doesn't surprise me. it seems a bit -- oh. >> one second. >> one at a time. >> oh, yeah, david urban. we're going to you, and then i'll get to you, david gergen. >> that's what happens when you have two davids. yeah, it surprises me. jared kushner is a straight shooter, so it did surprise me to find that out. >> what do you think, david gergen? >> yeah, i was surprised by the whole thing, but i don't think it's going to go very far. i think it's another hit below the water line. but this particular issue i think is not going to explode the way -- i think the tax issue, for example, is much more accessible to most americans. they understand there's been a lot of concealment of his taxes

and his losses. and people are waking up to the fact that a lot of his original assets came from his inheritance. this is a guy who had a huge inheritance from his family, managed to fritter away a lot of it apparently, and now is claiming he's a great capitalist. i think the documents that have come out in the last 48 hours, show the lie of that once again. >> we have the tax documents coming out that we were just talking about. and now we have all these transcripts coming out with people in trump's circle speaking to the committee, including the president's son-in-law and also ginni t thomas, the wife of supreme court justice thomas. she claimed she had told the committee, according to transcripts, that she never thought the 2020 election was stolen, despite the fact that one of her texts to mark meadows said that biden and other members of the left were attempting a, quote, heist. what do you think about that, david urban? >> look, i take ginni thomas at

her word, right? she's under oath. she gave testimony. she said what she said. people will get caught up in the excitement of politics, you know, kind of trend to hyperbole, and i think that's what the case was here. you know, this is, again, as david gergen says, i don't think -- this is all going to be kind of lost in the ephemeral in comparison to other things going on in the news today. and i think, you know, the january 6th committee had some mic drop moments. and now they're kind of passed. >> so, you believe that the mic drop moments have happened, that people are moving on. but i'm wondering, david gergen, given the fact that you have advised so many different presidents, look, donald trump has been under scrutiny a lot of different times for a lot of different reasons. but if you take a step back and big picture look at all that's come out from the january 6 committee, what do you think this all means for president

trump, as he runs for office again? >> well, listen, i think the current point came with the midterm elections. the fever broke with the midterm elections. and what we've seen since then is a steady decline in trump's credibility and position with the american people. and a rise among people who might be his successors, like the governor of florida. i think that's the larger picture, what we see here. did ginni thomas make a mistake? yeah, she made a mistake by calling mark meadows, the chief of staff in the midst of all of this. i think it goes to david urban's point. what was she calling about? she testified she called because she thought there was fraud that had been committed and had not yet been explored and needed to be studied before conceding the election. that's not a totally unreasonable argument. that's why i think she makes mistakes, but i think in the big

scheme of things, the taxes, the lying about so much, has gotten donald trump in the toughest place he's been in in his presidency. >>e 's in the toughest place he's been, and do you agree with david gergen that the taxes are the real problem, what came out today, not necessarily what has come out of these transcripts, david urban? >> pamela, i do think in this past news cycle, right, donald trump has been in hot water many times. i've been on this network many, many instances on many days when it was the darkest day for donald trump and it was done. his goose was cooked. and yet here we are years later. but i do agree with david gergen that, look, people can understand the tax issue, right? they can understand, well, you know, not paying taxes or they can't understand not paying taxes. in that instance, this is the tax code. i think the tax code is

terrible. and it is what it is. and donald trump is not sitting around his kitchen table on his laptop on turbotax doing his taxes by himself. he's got a cadre of lawyers and accountants and he's availing himself of the tax code. you know, if we want to change the tax code, let's change the tax code. the fact that donald trump availed himself of something that's in the tax code, even dave chappelle recognized that in his "saturday night live" opening monologue there when he said, don't hate the player, hate the game. >> but, okay -- and look, we're not going to get into the tax code here. but what about the money that he gave to several foreign governments? i mean, do you think the voters should have known about that? >> sure. >> because of the potential for conflict of interest and concern about the fact it could be influencing his policies? go ahead, david -- david gergen. >> yeah, pamela, your point earlier about, that's why

candidates normally put forth their tax returns so that people can see, the american public can see if there are any conflicts. they can judge themselves, right? put your tax returns out there. you're a public official in the public eye. let the people make the call for themselves, whether they think there's a problem or not, and go to the polls. let reporters examine it, scrub it, delve in. if there's a story there, write it, if not, move on. >> david urban, david gergen, thank you. we have very sad breaking news coming in to cnn. we have just learned that legendary broadcast journalist barbara walters has died. walters was a working journalist for more than six decades, a trailblazer who held some of the most powerful people in the world to account. she was an inspiration for young female journalists like myself coming up the ranks. here's a look back at her career. >> barbara walters was one of the most fascinating people of

any year in the television era. >> i know that i've done some important interviews. i know that i have been a part of history. >> was she ever? >> are you sorry you didn't build the tapes? >> yes, i think so, because they were private conversations. >> we read that you are mad. >> from murderers -- >> why did you kill john lennon? >> -- to movie stars. >> are you a changed man since the illness? did it affect you very much? did you mind being thought of as sex, sex, sex? i think that what is important is to have curiosity, follow that curiosity. i'm a great believer in homework. >> before people revealed all on social media, barbara walters was the interviewer to open up the stars. >> does he hit you? >> he shakes. he pushes. he swings. >> i hope they think that i'm fair and that i can be penetrating without being a

killer. and i am, i hope. >> and which interview was her most important? >> the first and at that time the only, i did one interview -- >> you are always like this, barbara. >> she said her 1977 interview with cuba's fidel castro was a news coup. >> a man who runs the country. a man who allows no dissent. >> castro didn't make it easy. >> blowing the cigar that he smoked in my face for three and a half hours. i didn't mind it. it's a different time. >> about 74 million people, the most viewers for a news program, tuned in to see monica lewinsky, the white house intern involved with president clinton. >> what will you tell your children when you have them? >> mommy made a big mistake. >> she got a reputation for making her interview guests cry. >> never got to know --

>> and you won't feel so big. >> after kathrine hepburn said she felt like an old tree, walters was cut down by critics for asking this. >> what kind of a tree are you? >> it didn't take long for barbara to become part of pop culture. the same network that made fun of her was where she got her big break, nbc's "today show." >> after being there 11 years, i was named the first cohost of a morning program. >> she was not permitted by her cohost to ask a question until he posed three. >> harry reezer in, barbara walters. >> it got worse when walters, to the surprise of many, was named the first female co-anchor of the network evening

>> she later described it as drowning without a life preserver. >> the barbara walters special. >> the specials saved my life. >> good evening, i'm barbara walters. >> and launched a legendary career at abc capped by creating and co-hosting "the view". >> when did you first learn about sex? >> i didn't learn about sex until i started to do this show and now i know more about sex than i ever wanted to know. the chemistry of it and the fact that it's live that it's outrageous, that you never know what you're going to hear. >> when she left "the view" and abc, they named a building in her honor, a lasting monument for a woman who changed tv. >> i'm so proud of the women today. there are so many of them that are wonderful. that's my legacy. >> i'm joined now by someone

that knew barbara walters well. sally quinn. i know barbara walters was a dear friend of yours. i'm so sorry we are talking under these circumstances but she was an absolute giant in journal journalism. she was a trailblazer and broke glass ceilings. tell us about her and her legacy tonight. sally quinn, can you hear us? okay. we have david garrigan on stand by that can hopefully speak with us about barbara walters, the legend. i'm so saddened by this news, david. i've looked up to barbara walters my whole life. i read her memoir. i read so much about her as a young journalist and inspired by her because of the fact she was a trailblazer in this industry. and she was in this industry and was a giant in it for several decades, five decades. how will you remember her, david garrigan? >> oh, it's a huge loss, pamela.

i'm so glad you're speaking the way you are about her. there is no woman, there is no person in america that did more to advanced rights of the women more at the forefront of american business frankly. this is a woman abc wouldn't have been abc without barbara walters. she and peter jennings, that was a terrific crew for a long time and barbara was right at the center of it. she was tough. she was tough minded but she was always fair. very fair in what she did and i do think that she was so proud of the way, especially i think those castro interviews for example. they've came from journalism schools everywhere because barbara showed the way. she was the out front person that took a lot of hits and had real, you know, sadness and tragedy. wasn't all positive. but she hung in there and i can't tell you how she built the

foundation of modern news television especially with the inclusion of more women. >> absolutely. i want to bring sally quinn back because sally quinn was also a trailblazer. for me as a little girl wanting to be a journalist watching barbara walters, i was like gosh she can interview world leaders like fidel castro, vladimir putin, what it took for her to interview the world leaders was incredible. she was tough, sally, but there was so much to barbara walters beyond that, right? >> she -- i never have known anybody that worked as hard as barbara. she was a killer when she went out to get a story, she would get the story and she was the best. in those days people would criticize her because she was doing what men did and women weren't supposed to be killers. what i came to cbs news, barbara

wanted to be an anichor woman o the "today show" and they said women couldn't be anchors. i was hired as the first woman to go against barbara walters and "new york magazine" had a cover story and the lead was "lookout barbara walters, dear i come." i was horrified. barbara called me up and said don't let them bother you. they will try to pit the two of us against each other and i want you to know i'm your friend and i wish you well. she was always unbelievably gracious and kind to me and we became best friends and we were best friends for 40 or 50 years. she was always gracious and helpful with other women. people don't understand that about barbara because she was so strong willed and hard working and she was tough.

but they don't understand how she helped so many women in the business. you said she was a trailblazer but she started get getting the interviews no other woman would get. >> she allowed us to understand it was possible, that my dream could come true. >> yes, not only that, pamela, she also was getting interviews with everybody else, too. so when she would do her specials, she'd have a world leader and a movie star and she'd have a politician. and, you know, she'd have -- she -- there is nobody she couldn't interview. nobody. i used to laugh because i would call up and i'd try to get an interview of somebody like fidel castro and they would say barbara walters will be coming down next week but you can interview him after that. you know? barbara was always a step ahead of everybody. >> she interviewed -- go ahead. >> well, she was a great girlfriend. i mean, she was somebody that you could -- we would have lunches all the time and we'd sit for hours, you know, and

we'd talk about clothes and hairdos and politics and we'd talk about world leaders and we'd talk about foreign policy and, you know, she was just -- there is nothing she didn't know about. nobody she didn't know. nothing she couldn't talk about. and she was really fun. and she had a great personality, great sense of humor and she was, you know, my husband ben bradley adored barbara and they were -- we were all really close and saw each other a lot in the summer where we had a house near hers and she was always the life of the party. i never had a party out there that i didn't have barbara and barbara was always, you know, the most fun person. ben always wanted to sit next to barbara because she was the most fun and keep the table going. she once wrote a book about i think it was called something like "how to talk to anybody about anything" and she could. there was nobody. you could put barbara in a room with anybody from any class or social stratus or culture or country or ethnic group and barbara could immediately become

their best friend. there was an amazing talent. i never seen anything like it. >> she could talk to anyone and here he is interviewing world leaders and she interviewed every u.s. president and first lady from nixon to obama and interviewed donald trump and first lady melania trump before they entered the white house. i want to bring david car garrigan back in. she could talk to anyone and she was able to land the huge interviews every journalist would want to land, she'd be the first. >> absolutely. i think one of the only people in the country like barbara walters. the friendship between the two of them were legendary and sometimes competed against each other but each one of them enjoyed that. so this is a big, big loss for american discourse for american

journalism but it's an opportunity, a moment when we can also focus on the fact what one individual like bar bara walters with her tall ent and drive, how much good she did for the industry and building journalism. we had a golden age. we're no longer in the golden age i'm sorry to say but she was really representing the golden age of american journalism. >> yeah. her legacy is absolutely tremendous and i love sally, how she would talk about look, you got to prepare. you got to do your homework. like you said, she was the hardest working journalist there was. what do you think she will want people to remember her by? >> i think she would like to be remembered as being really hard working and a serious journalist. and for so long because she started out being a quote hostess unkwoed.

when she was co-anchor at abc news, frank mckee, i think, maybe i'm getting that right but anyway, he was awful to her and everybody treated her like a second class citizen. she was the co-anchor and getting the interviews and doing the reporting. and she -- i think she never felt totally appreciated for what she did particularly as she got older. i think she didn't feel that she had gotten the kind of recognition that she should have. and i know that she was very disappointed a lot of times particularly at abc towards the end where she had worked so hard. she started "the view." she founded "the view." she did everything possible to get as many interviews and to get that network. she's really one of the reasons that abc became such a top network at one point is because of barbara. i mean, she single handedly put