four votes, four apparent defeats. today more public embarrassment and chaos in the united states house of representatives. i'm anderson cooper in new york. you're watching cnn's special

live coverage. >> and aim jake tapper in washington. the united states still without a house speaker this hour and there is no sign that republicans are going to be able to settle on one any time soon. kevin mccarthy is going to come up short a fourth time. that's the vote we're watching right now. the hard-line opposition of about 20 rebels backing congressman byron donalds of florida this go-around. this vote is playing out as we're seeing quite an interesting split screen moment on the left side of your screen. you see senator -- senator minority leader mitch mcconnell at an event in kentucky with president biden there talking about the bipartisan infrastructure bill that was only passed because of democrats and republicans working together and now you see on the screen a place where bipartisanship is not happening, in fact, barely partisanship when it comes to republicans. cnn is tracking everything as it

happens vote by vote. let's start with lauren fox. kevin mccarthy's allies are frustrated. are they suggesting they know of any path out of this? any way to pick off these rebels? >> reporter: there's a lot of concern about how they are going to get out of this box in the speaker's race with the fear that kevin mccarthy even if he emerges, even if miraculously he can get the votes at this point that he will be severely weakened. what one ally told me, he probably has another 24 hours to get an agreement. if he can't negotiate to get an agreement on speaker, it means he won't be able to negotiate and get to 218 on anything controversial. maybe nobody else can either. but he certainly can't. this person said he hopes that mccarthy can get there but just to remind people back home, there is so much left to do for republicans if they're going to have this majority. if they're actually going to be

able to govern. they have to pass a debt ceiling at some point. they have to pass other controversial bills when it comes to any disaster aid, a spending bill, a farm bill. all have bedeviled republicans in the past and just shows even if mccarthy can emerge he may not have much support left. >> yeah, i mean, passing the speaker of the house is not supposed to be the toughest votes and if they do presumably they will arrive at a speaker at some point. they've got a lot more tougher votes ahead. let's go to melanie zanona now. melanie, there is a very real impact to this dysfunction between c-span's ratings going up. house remains essentially frozen in time. members of congress-elect are not members of congress yet. there's a lot that is not going to be able to be done for the american people. >> reporter: that's right, jake. this is so much more than just a story line about republican in-fighting. the house is completely paralyzed right now because they cannot conduct any other business until they elect a speaker so what that means is

committees can't hire new staff. let alone start launching investigates or writing bills or passing bills. we don't even know who some of the chairs are going to be of the committees and meanwhile i'm told some of these new member offices, the staffers can't even login to their computers yet, of course, you have the new members who haven't been sworn in yet, no members have been sworn in yet and these poor families have been dragged to washington. kids pulled out of school and they're just sort of stuck in this wait and see moment and then perhaps most problematic if by january 13th this is not resolved, the committees can't continue to pay their staff or pay out student loan payments so there are real practical implications here and as brian fitzpatrick, a moderate republican told cnn a little bit ago, he said we have one of our three branchs of government offline right now. that is a very dangerous thing for our country so just a reminder about the practical implications of a protracted fight, jake. >> thank you so much. let's keep this split screen for one second. i just want to make this point

again. on the left side of your screen in covington, kentucky, the bridge behind president biden leads from kentucky to se cinc cincinnati, ohio, in which bipartisanship is being celebrated. it is democratic president joe biden, republican senate minority leader mitch mcconnell in his home state across the river, of course, in ohio, that is a largely republican state with a governor who is republican and outgoing or former senator who helped negotiate this bipartisan infrastructure bill. this isn't a celebration of what can happen if parties work together is on the left side. on the right side of your screen is washington dysfunction, specifically house republican dysfunction. they cannot arrive at a speaker. this is the first time since 1923 that there have been so many ballots in a caucus that cannot arrive on a speaker candidate. let's bring in an ally of kevin mccarthy right now, former republican congressman rodney davis of illinois.

congressman davis, it doesn't seem as though anything has moved in the last 24 hours, we're waiting for the final vote to come in but it's basically going to be the same as the third ballot yesterday, 202 votes for mccarthy, 212 for the democrat hakeem jeffries and 20 anti-mccarthy votes, in this case they're all voting for a fairly relatively long shot obscure candidate, congressman byron donalds. is it even possible at this point, congressman, for mccarthy to change the minds of 15 of these 20 no votes? >> well, i think it's actually pretty telling, jake, he didn't lose more support. my sources inside the conference who are friends and allies of kevin mccarthy just like i am, they anticipated losing some votes this this round. maybe it'll happen next round. but in the end, i think mike gallagher, he gave a very impassioned speech and got to give mike credit. he's speaking as one voice for

the frustrated 202 other republicans who want kevin mccarthy to be speaker. the 20 republicans who don't don't represent more than a tenth of the conference that we have right now. mike gallagher gave an impassioned speech that 200 are very energized to stick this out right now. more so than i've ever seen before. >> let me ask you, congressman, on the left side of the screen our viewers are seeing a democratic president in the home commonwealth, kentucky, a republican senate leader mitch mcconnell. we saw a split screen where mcconnell was sitting next to democratic senator from ohio, sherrod brown. all talking about a bipartisan accomplishment, the infrastructure bill, that's on the left side of the screen. on the right side of the screen house republican dysfunction. what are your thoughts on that? >> it's embarrassing, look, i'm a big fan of mitch mcconnell. i think he'll go down as one of the greatest legislators in the history of our country and been

able to get supreme court nominees confirmed and put on the court in a conservative sense that he promised and that former president trump promised. i think it's also telling right now you look at the dysfunction in the house and there are a lot of folks, even those 20 that probably would call president trump for advice on a wide range of issues. as one of your panelists said earlier, this is really showing the weakness of a president trump endorsement right now and i think that's one thing that we'll come out of this conference where those 202 republicans who are angry who want to move on, who want to govern, they're the ones that will be frustrated. they'll be frustrated with these 20 and those that will tell them what to do and how to run that house for many months to come. >> what's your advice for your friend, leader kevin mccarthy? should he keep fighting and for how long? 100 years ago this literally went on for nine votes, nine

ballots and then the republican speaker was, in fact, re-elected after that. after that gang of republican rebels finally blinked. how long should kevin mccarthy fight? >> as long as he has the support of the overwhelming majority of his conference. i mean you can't argue 202 of 222 want you to be speaker. at some point there's got to be a break in the process and as this moves forward as was mentioned by melanie there will be pain felt all throughout congress if we don't have committee chairs and we don't have the ability to have new members utilize their office budget. people aren't going to get paid. that's going to impact democrats and that's when i think you start to see more movement on the other side. the democrats are having a ball right now. i would be too if it was happening on the other side. i'd be tweeting out emojis of popcorn also. but in the end, their humor right now is going to turn to

anger and maybe they'll want to play ball. >> all right. congressman davis, thanks so much. dana bash, i keep hearing this expression of hope from republicans that democrats are somehow going to be part of the extrication, the resolution here. what do you think? >> i think if the shoe were on the other foot, good luck. so maybe ultimately after we get, you know, days and weeks maybe even a month into this, maybe, but i just don't see it. i just want to return to what you were asking the former congressman about this split screen, because it is just such an indicator and illustration of how this really is personal and about kevin mccarthy, the man and the reason i say that is because kevin mccarthy would never ever appear with president biden in something like this at an event like this because he would understand that that would

be sort of political suicide among republicans, and yet -- meaning he has played his cards as well as he can, given the conference that he is trying to lead and yet it is still not enough. >> you're saying he's so maga but still they don't trust him. >> exactly. i mean, mitch mcconnell, he gave up. he didn't -- he hasn't been outwardly critical of donald trump, but donald trump really does not like him and the reason is because mcconnell has said, now, he has a very different job in the senate, i understand very well the difference, but mcconnell has said i'm just going to do what i need to do on any given piece of legislation and when it comes to infrastructure he decided, i'm going to work across the aisle and get it done and it has made him so unpopular with the republican base. >> the word i think you're looking for is governing, right?

mitch mcconnell saw what happened in the election and has conducted himself throughout the course of his career as a governing republican, but he also saw that as the mandate that came down from the american people in the fact that republicans didn't take the senate, they didn't have the big wave in the house, instead it was this more status quo, hey, guys, fix it, get it together and that's really -- i mean, jake you kept using the word bipartisan. you're right it's bipartisanship on display. the more important thing is they're showing that bridge between kentucky and ohio needed to be fixed. like the federal government needed to do something about it and so they're all standing there and saying, okay, look, we governed. >> let's listen in. that was the end of the votes. zinke is the last one to vote, congressman zinke from montana who was a mccarthy vote. let's listen to the clerk. >> the reading clerk will now call the names of the members haifa elect who did not answer the first call of the roll.

>> you see kevin mccarthy speaking with his newfound ally marjorie taylor greene who despite being ultra maga has been one of his biggest supporters this this leadership fight. kind of inexplicably. >> spartz. >> present. >> present. >> hold on. someone just voted present and you want to explain the importance of that? >> so this is the first time we've heard this. it brings down the overall number that kevin mccarthy would need to win. on the other hand let's look at those numbers. while kevin mccarthy says he has the most votes, hakeem jeffries actually -- >> the present vote came from kevin mccarthy's title -- total, not from congressman donalds. i don't know if that helps.

>> it was victoria spartz. >> i understand the math is such that the overall total of people voting yea or nay goes down, but he also lost a vote. >> interesting picture. >> between pat thick mchenry and kevin mccarthy. >> byron donalds. >> byron donalds. >> this is obviously the man who was nominated by the rebels talking to patrick mchenry who is one of kevin mccarthy's key allies, also one of the go teens here. and has been, you know, mentioned as a potential speaker of the house, i mean, for many years but in the context of this. >> mchenry, i believe, gave a silver bowl to kevin mccarthy, an homage to his favorite show "the wire" in which the mayoral character in that gets a bowl full of ex-vcrement and that is

the job of being speaker. you have to eat bowl after bowl of this was the reference to that and kevin mccarthy's getting the contents of the bowl, if not the bowl itself yet. >> but, jake, to your point this is an erosion of support for kevin mccarthy. even though it didn't go to donalds and the rebels, it went away from kevin mccarthy and we have all heard, let's be honest, that patrick mchenry has been considered a dark horse to be a potential draftee for speaker. >> now you see tom emmer who ran the house campaign committee and a lot of republicans are furious with him because they thought they would win more seats in the last election. two key deputies talking to byron donalds trying to convince him, okay, you just got 20 votes, you have some credibility among these hold-outs, can you

do something about it? what do you want? how do we fix this? we are embarrassed. we are making a mockery of our new majority. let's fix this. the question is, are they interested in fixing it because so far their strategy has been, kevin mccarthy step as side. then maybe we can talk. and how long could they hold that out? to the split screen moment, look, senators have to run statewide to dane that's point. most of these house members especially these 20 holeouts go home to safe republican districts. they don't care because they're not politically worried and believe they can go home and sell what they're doing and get re-elected in two years. mitch mcconnell is still furious, it's the daytime, but i could use stronger language. he blames donald trump for meddling in republican primaries but looking at the next election and thinking, what did the american people just vote for? they elected a lot of center right republicans, they rejected a lot of trump crazy republican. >> they rejected this. this is what they rejected. >> so mitch mcconnell is saying,

okay, they want bridges built. they want if it's a ream deal republicans to talk to democrats and cut a deal and mitch mcconnell is being a governing conservative. congressman davis, you just talked to like mitch mcconnell is a governing conservative. we want to get things done. what's the best deal we can get? these 20 hold-outs are not governing anything. they are rabble rousers. >> we already had one -- the house of representatives has 435 members. there is one vacancy because of a death. that's a democratic congressman from virginia. congresswoman victoria spartz, she's a republican, from indiana who had been supporting mccarthy. she now brings the threshold down from 218 -- >> takes two. >> takes two votes because congressman mceachin is already missing so he's missing because he passed away. >> that means there are 433. >> so with the vacancy and the present vote for every two not voting for a candidate by name, you take it down one. >> right. so now it's a 217 --

>> 217. >> that's my point. so her present vote -- it's negligible. >> she made it harder for mccarthy. >> if all the democrats keep voting for hakeem jeffries the republicans cannot lower the threshold. if they lower it too much they will elect hakeem jeffries speaker. >> if they lower 212, hakeem jeffries will have the votes. >> trump did not move the needle at all on that vote. >> exactly. >> fascinating because the 20 -- >> good point. >> 20 rebels are all ultra maga super ultra maga. >> rump is not saying, hey, you, part of the 19 or the 20 group, you need to vote for kevin mccarthy. he just said all republicans should vote for kevin mccarthy. it was kind -- >> that is an option he knows is available to him that he has not used. >> he hasn't publicly gone after any of them. he hasn't called them out by name in public. i mean he could call in to cable news tonight and call them out.

he hasn't done that. he has a lot of options on the table but hasn't utilized but i will say on some level, this whole fiasco, the speaker's vote is a first test of a speaker's ability to actually run the place and -- >> how do you think it's going? >> kevin mccarthy is failing. and i think that if you're -- if you're in the 20, he's not doing himself any favors every single time this goes on failing to get the first set of votes that he needs to get in order to be able to do anything at all. it just -- it erodes i think even perhaps some of the people in the 201. it's eroding confidence he can even do any basic things if he can't get -- >> big picture, he has now lost four ballots. >> yep. he was -- big picture he's lost four ballots but also his vote total is going no the wrong direction. remember, because donalds voted for him on the first two

ballots. and then switched to jim jordan and now switched to himself. manu raju, kevin mccarthy is losing votes. >> reporter: yeah, this is certainly not a good sign for him. the concern had been that this essentially would happen. that he would go in the opposite direction here. one of his supporters now voting present. that is not the direction that they needed to go. in fact, last night when mccarthy was talking to a group of reporters including me he suggested he probably only needed 11 more votes and we interpreted that as perhaps some of those opponents would vote present. that would be helpful in the opponents voted present or somebody actually voted for him. that did not happen here and he indicated to me going in he doesn't really -- it doesn't really bother him because he has more votes than any other republican. it's still uncertain what the next step is for the republicans here. i just talked to tom emmer. he is a member of the republican leadership team, part of all these suggests with kevin mccarthy.

i asked him whether or not we would be going into a fifth ballot on the house floor. he said i think we're going to talk about that. i asked has that been decided? he said, quote, i don't think so so the republican leadership has not decided yet. whether they will seek to adjourn the house for a brief period, maybe into tomorrow or whether they will try to push ahead and see potentially very likely a similar outcome here but, again, it goes back to the question, democrat also have to decide whether to assist some of those republican dissidents whether to assist and vote to adjourn the house because they will need 218 to do that and did not have those vote adjourn it at the beginning of the session even though mccarthy's team wanted to do that fearing that they would once again lose this vote which they appear to have done just now. so just a lot of uncertainty right now and just moments ago here we see emmer on our screen who i just spoke with sitting next to byron donalds. he, of course, donalds put up by those opponents got 20 vote, emmer, a member of the -- big

supporter of kevin mccarthy sitting next to each other chitchatting talking earlier. what did they decide to do? what is the horse trading going on but the republican leadership uncertain whether they want to push ahead to that fifth vote knowing that the -- mccarthy's vote total probably isn't going to change then either. >> we saw an animated conversation on the floor of the house and you can see -- they keep changing the camera angle. it was in the bottom of the screen. there. if you see congressman matt gallagher who was the one who nominated kevin mccarthy, his head is -- there he is on the top of your screen, looking angry. he's listening to congressman matt gaetz on the right who is very animatedly talking about -- he's one of the leaders of the group of 20 rebels, he was a never kevin mccarthy when it was just him and four others and you see next to congressman gallagher i believe that's scott perry from pennsylvania and there are other member, it seems to be a mix of pro-mccarthy and

anti-mccarthy votes, oh, to have a microphone in there. but once again, the reason that we're seeing some of these incredible shots, i believe, is because there are no rules because there is not a speaker of the house so the c-span cameraman and women are able to shoot all the exciting things they see on a normal day but are prevented from showing the american people because the speaker of the house whether democrat or republican never allows this kind of freedom when it comes to cameras on the floor of the house. >> wild west at c-span. >> it's very exciting. >> i love it. >> they must be having so much fun. >> i'm watching the camera anging as well. melanie? >> reporter: a gop lawmaker told me before the vote that spartz was actually weighing a no vote so we were watching her closely, other lawmakers were watching her closely heading into this vote. she ended up not voting at all initially when the roll call went through her name and saw in the end she ended up voting present after some of mccarthy's top allies had been talking to

her seemingly trying to work her on the floor. now, this present vote doesn't really do much to change things for mccarthy. doesn't alter the threshold as of right now but it is not a good sign for mccarthy. it's moving away from him. she went from a previous vote of supporting mccarthy, now into the present camp which suggests she is still very much on the fence and something to know about victoria spartz. she is weighing a senate bid in indiana. in she does launch a bid there she will likely have to fight through a tough republican primary in a red state. could be up against jim banks also weighing a bid. he's got the backing of donald trump so that could be part of her calculation here and also something else notable. she was at one of these forums in november about rules changes that andy biggs, one of the mccarthy critics was holding when he was trying to get a number of these concessions and laying out what the freedom caucus wants so even though she's not a member of the freedom caucus, there are signs she had been thinking about the mccarthy vote very, very hard, jake. >> victoria spartz, congresswoman, republican, from

indiana who also is the only ukrainian born member of the u.s. congress, kevin mccarthy put her out there front and center back when he was supporting or more supportive, more strongly supportive of the american efforts to help the ukrainian government. let's bring back congressman rodney davis. former republican congressman from the great state of illinois, congressman, what are you hearing from your friends on the floor? >> look, i'm watching this conversation happening in the center aisle right now. it's very intriguing to see who is all there. and that tells me this heated conversation is getting to the point that i've made and others have made over the last two days, there comes a time where you have to have that conversation. you got dusty johnson there, brian fitzpatrick, these are two leaders of the more governing republican sides of the caucus. talking with matt gaetz, talking with chip roy, these are the times where kevin mccarthy's not engaged in these conversations, these are members who are talking how to get out of this.

this is a big deal that this conversation is happening in the open right now and i'm going to be on the phones. i talked to matt gaetz earlier. matt as we expected, he is never going to vote for kevin mccarthy. i don't think anybody doubted that. but they were successful in working with the dems to make sure that there was to the a motion to adjourn once again. that put this vote front and center. and when victoria did what she did, it took any momentum away from the mccarthy side who would have said, oh, we just lost the same amount. we just lost the same 20 but now here we are, you see members talking to members. that is a sign that there is intense frustration or it's a sign that there's going to be some movement that we don't expect. >> and, congressman, also we should point out that one of the things these rebels are pushing for is a more open process, more open debate, more open amendments, less control by the speaker. less control by the rules committee. less control by the committee

chairs. we're almost seeing the fact that the c-span cameras are having such a free for all today because there is -- there are no house rules preventing them from showing everything going on is almost a metaphor for the kind of freedom that these rebels are pushing for, some of the rebels, i should say. but it's the kind of thing that speakers don't like to show the american people. they don't want the american people to see democrats and republicans talking in a friendly way, democrats and republicans making deals, shaking hands. >> well, i don't necessarily agree. i think the american people -- i think they watch congress and put too much into what they see when there's a lot of conversations on there that have absolutely nothing to do with the legislation -- legislating that's hamming in the chamber but when you look at what kevin mccarthy's already agreed to, jake, he has already agreed to make this conference the most open and transparent rule making process that i've witnessed in my ten years as being a member

of congress and 16 years before that as being a staffer. if you want to know a closed process all you had to do was work under the rules of speaker pelosi over the last -- over the last couple of years. we saw a very top down approach. kevin already agreed to open it up more than what many these su insurgents know. some haven't been sworn in for the first time. >> all right. thank you so much, congressman. let me bring in dave joyce, a current congressman, congressman joyce, always a pleasure to have you on. your friend kevin mccarthy whom you support for speaker and voted now for him four times in a row. his vote count is heading in the wrong direction from 203 to 202, now 201. what's next? >> well, they're up to 20 1/2, i guess, with a present vote. it's amazing what primaries do for folks and their voting

records here but the shame is, nothing's changed. the positions that were just being laid out by congressman davis is absolutely correct. this will be the most open congress ever. these rules were agreed to and ultimatums delivered yesterday at the last minute, those are things that the speaker doesn't even have the ability to deliver. that's a steering committee assignments that have to take place and so there's been discussions but no real movement and so, you know, having been involved in this for the month and a half before we got back here on january 2nd, i could tell you this is a group that does not want to get to kevin. that's the bottom line but god bless, kevin will keep purring forward because the tail doesn't wag the dog. >> so, what is your advice to kevin mccarthy? how long will this go? is it not possible that this is really just the end of the road for him? >> you know, kevin will have to make that call. he's earned the opportunity to be there and to make that call on his own. he doesn't deserve to be forced

out by this random gang and what you're seeing here, i've told the incoming freshmen today that, look, this is a prelude of what's going to come and the coming attraction when we get up to any big budget matter or the debt ceiling or anything else, there will be a crowd and they're going to continue to push and shove what they think is the agenda and they're 10% of our whole conference. >> if ultimately it becomes clear that there just are not going to be enough votes for kevin mccarthy, who would and i understand this is not your first choice, you don't want this to happen, but is there a candidate that can step into the breach? it doesn't appear to be congressman donalds or jordan or biggs. is there someone you think might also be able to be an effective speaker? >> well, there's plenty of people in here who could be an effective speaker but kevin deserves the opportunity because he's been a hell of a leader throughout the process and put together with all of us and laid out the guidelines for the

commitment to america. he's the that one that helped raise the money to help a lot of candidates voting against him stay alive in their races and he put this majority together. he deserves the opportunity to lead it. you know, there are other people who can step up, sure. you know what, they keep playing games, it could be hakeem. let them keep playing that game but they're delaying all the things we told americans we were going to do, all the reasons that if we took over the majority we would make happen and all we do is sit here and twiddle our thumbs while they continue to play games, beat their chest and fund raise off the fact they're blocking the natural progression of our leadership. >> so we see on the floor right now, we see mccarthy allies including jim jordan, including congressman mike gallagher, jason smith, barry loudermilk, other, trying to negotiate with the rebels and trying to talk to scott perry, trying to talk to matt gaetz. we see byron donalds who just got 20 votes talking to congressman tom emmer, another mccarthy ally and aide.

are there deals being cut or are people just saying along the lines of what we just heard from you, you're just standing in the way of progress here, you're just standing in the way of a conservative agenda, cut it out. >> well, you know, yesterday they said they had a group of eight candidates that -- potential candidates. they probably sprayed it out there in the first round. then they solidified on jim jordan who actively said he didn't want to be speaker and so had to go through a couple rounds of that then today they were on byron. tomorrow, who knows. maybe they'll put up gaetz but they'll continue to go down a list but anybody in their right mind would have to look at this situation and say, do i want to be the speaker? i mean, i would hope that sometime knowing my dear friend pete aguilar and hakeem jeffries, they would do that. i'm a cleveland browns fan and hope springs eternal but it

would start to get it moving and go back to the days of tip o'neill and ronald reagan. you can talk to each other and you can have debate on issues and still come to the center of agreement where you're not getting everything but in the majority maybe get 80%, good, let's move forward. our country needs that and our voters demanded that and that's what we were supposed to be doing with our majority. >> right now, there is a bipartisan event going on on the kentucky side of the bridge between covington, kentucky, across from cincinnati, ohio, it is a bipartisan event with president biden and mitch mcconnell and sherrod brown and a whole bunch of democrats and republicans who worked together to pass that bipartisan infrastructure bill. when we do the split screen of it, we're doing it right now, you see democrats, republicans on the left side of the screen in covington then complete dysfunction in capitol hill

among house republicans on the right side of the screen, what kind of message do you think that sends. >> i like the message on my left better of what's taking place, progress being made in kentucky. obviously that brent spence bridge needed to be repaired for decades. think of the amount of traffic that goes over there flowing up and down from detroit to florida. it's important and needs to be done. that's the kind of thing that needs to be fixed around us. our bridges, our ports, they just continue to get in a state of disrepair because we can't do simple things like elect a leader and move on. we got to get back to having true leadership and making committees and things happen and, again, you know, byron donalds this morning, i watched him as i was working out go across all the different camera screens in the gym. you know, if you're going to fund raise off this tell people you want to be a fund-raiser and get out of the business. this business is serious negotiation among real legislators and that's what happens when you put democrats

and republicans in a room. >> congressman dave joyce, republican of ohio, always good to have you on. we'll take a quick break and be right back. my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger.

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welcome back to cnn live coverage. no speaker after four ballots so far. right now a lot of mccarthy allies trying to corral the hard-liners, lobby them to change their mind. lauren, what are you hearing? >> reporter: we are watching on the floor that after mccarthy tried to soft sell and then a hard sell, with no success, he is really fanning out those deputies on the floor of the house trying to get them to make their pitch to those rebel 20

still not voting for mccarthy. jim jordan who used to sometimes be a foe of leadership fighting for mccarthy on the floor in a heated and passionate discussion with matt gaetz. "some of it"ing from annie greer sending some of this great reporting back to us. you know, one other thing to remember, anderson, is jim jordan is also talking to mccarthy filling him in on what he's hearing from those rebels on the floor. >> we're seeing them literally talking right now. >> yeah, i mean it shows something so different than what we saw yesterday, anderson, when everyone was really entrenched on their sides, is there going to be a breakthrough? is this some kind of -- we just don't know. >> let's listen in.

>> will the house be in order? the tellers agree in their t tallies -- the tellers agree in their tallies that the total number of votes cast is 433. of which the honorable hakeem jeffries of the state of new york has received 212. [ cheers and applause ] >> the honorable kevin mccarthy of the state of california has received 201. [ applause ]

the honorable byron donalds of the state of florida has received 20. [ applause ] with one member-elect recorded as present. no member-elect having received a majority of the whole number of votes cast, a speaker has not been elected. for what purpose does the gentleman from ohio seek recognition? >> madam speaker, i rise to nominate kevin mccarthy as speaker of the house. >> the gentleman is recognized. [ applause ]

>> now, why would i -- why would i as a conservative as an army ranger, business guy, the first guy that the house freedom caucus backed in a congressional race, why would i nominate kevin mccarthy to become the next speaker of the house? why would jim jordan? why would other conservatives like thomas massie, jim banks, kevin hern and others support kevin mccarthy as speaker of the house? you know, something in our nature as humans causes us to dehumanize others when we engage in conflict dehumanizing others

makes it easier to ascribe bad motives and to engage in the fight. but also makes it harder to understand one another. as actions push further disagreement arguments tend to escalate rather than resolve. we're on the precipice of such a destructive argument today. i plead with all, all of my republican colleagues, let cooler, more rational heads prevail. let us unite as republicans to elect the next speaker of the house. unlike democrats, nearly every republican at least campaigns on some form of smaller, more accountable government. once we get here, the bipartisan consensus keeps growing a bigger, less accountable government. the american people know that the status quo is broken, that we become less free, less safe and more burdened by debt, the

american people are sick and tired of it. and they keep sending us reinforcements, reinforcements that today help make up our small majority. but a majority is only a majority if we actually work together. now, lots of people back home don't just anyone in this town. perhaps we would be wise to listen to them and some wisdom from ronald reagan. trust, but verify. trust is a fragile condition and easily broken. as i've listened to my friends, 20 of whom have opposed kevin mccarthy as speaker of the house and others, the root issue is this, they do not trust kevin mccarthy. what can heal that divide? [ applause ] right now there are a lot of colleagues that don't trust 20

or more of my fellow republicans. [ applause ] right now though we remain divided a majority, an actual majority of the house freedom caucus members do support kevin mccarthy. this summer a unified house freedom caucus started the negotiations with a proposal for new rules. a different way to govern that empowers committees and regular members, we proposed a set of tools could be structured to make trust more verifiable and allow recourse if that trust is ever broken. following the election kevin mccarthy engaged in that negotiation, he led the conference to adopt substantive reforms that will make our majority more effective. let me list some of them. andrew clyde's proposal to restore public access to the capitol. lauren boebert's proposal to reduce the linkage been nccc and steering committee process.

gary palmer's proposal to cap spending on suspension bills. chip roy's proposal to provide a five-day notice for suspension votes. dan bishop's proposal in privileged resolutions, scott perry's people for additional conference meetings ahead of key votes, bob good's proposal on stand-alone appropriations bills, andy biggs' proposal limiting suspension waivers from committees, chip roy's proposal to mako sponsored amendments in order, a firm 72-hour publication of bills before calling for a recorded vote and end to proxy voting, afternoon end to remote participation and committee work by members of congress. the h. lman role and unblocked suspension votes and major reform worked out with morgan griffin, what we hope to call the griffin bill on single bills

on orders of amendment. diverse viewpoints on every committee. lastly a church style commission was added to the judiciary committee focused on the abuses our own big government has unjustly collaborated with big business and big tech to silence, persecute or even prosecute our fellow citizens. as thomas massie pointed out, elon musk bought a crime scene. now that we know in the public knows the question is what in the hell are we going to do about it? this answers that with oversight by our most effective member my friend and colleague, congressman jim jordan. we are a big and diverse conference. it goes back to strategy. can we accept incremental

progress, can we work for a victory, one first down at a time? or can we only accept a high-risk trick play? can we set about the hard work about winning debates with our colleagues, as we have done through this process. can we take a win every now and then and give hope to the forgotten men and women of america who no longer believe this place, this people's house cares about them. or having achieved nearly every concession we asked for including a motion to vacate the chair with one privilege resolution, does it really boil down to in that 20 or more of my colleagues will never trust kevin mccarthy as speaker? i feel at this time we risk a worse outcome if we cannot unite behind the man that has helped us achieve these substantive reforms. reforms that offer all of us this whole body hope for change

in this broken status quo, reforms that our voters have demanded. reforms that we've worked hard together to achieve and finally reforms that we risk forfeiting if we do not work together as republicans to elect the next speaker of the house. now is the time for deeds, not words and i nominate kevin mccarthy for speaker of the house. i humbly ask for your support. [applause] >> [applause] for what purposes does the gentleman from california rise? >> madam clerk, i rise to nam

nature hakeem jeffries. >> [applause] >> madam clerk, the lead vote getter in the last four tallies, democrats are united behind a speaker who'll work to codify the right to seek abortion into law. like all of us, like all of us, hakeem has spoken about consistently, the disasterous dobbs decision. he's spoken time and time again that it is well past time to codify roe v. wade. and he knows that young women should not grow up in a world with fewer rights than their parents and grand parents. he will ensure that reproductive freedom is enshrined into law. that's why, madam clerk as chair of the democratic caucus, i

nominate hakeem jeffries, represent from new york, as our next speaker. >> [applause] >> [cheers] >> for what purpose does the gentlewoman rise? >> madam clerk, i rise to nominate congressman byran donald. i rise to nominate byron donald, my friend, an amazing leader, someone who almost took leadership in our republican party. he's a man who understands what tough times look like, and he comes out more stronger, liberated and as a leader. now, we just heard from

my respected colleague from ohio and he stated amazing rules that we've been able to get an agreement on, i think. we were threatened heavily in conference saying if we don't do as we ought, then, some of those rules may just go away. but, even naming the germaneness rule which is fantastic, after morgan griffith, that is fantastic. why didn't the opposing leader of the republican party present these rules? why were we fought so hard on these rules? the barrier that still stands in the way of these rules is the structure that prevents us from rolling over. as my friend chip royce stated, we need the tools and the leadership to do our job

correctly and i beef that byran donald is the man to lead us. to negotiate in good faith, to help unify our party on border security, energy security, debt reduction, term limits, ear marks among other many common sense policies. but, too often, our efforts have fallen on deaf ears. our border is wide open, inflation is out of control, the senate just passed $1.7 trillion without our input. so, let me be clear, our job is not to cornate the biggest fundraiser, or keep on going on to get along. it's to use our vote toss elect a speaker who'll

enable us to get our country back on track. getting the job done is what we were elected to do. and that starts with having a leader who supports republican principles, builds consensus, and has a proven track record of success. byran donalds, is that leader. republicans including many moderates have been impressed by byran donalds, they're impressed by hisability to work together, they respect his leadership. we see him as someone who can communicate what we're all wanting to do in this house to americans and he represents so much more than just his district in florida. many, millions of americans all over this nation praise the work and the leadership of byran donalds. so, let's work

together. let's stop with the campaign smears and tactics to get people to turn against us, even having my favorite president call us and tell us we need to knock this off. i think it actually needs to be reversed. the president needs to tell kevin mccarthy that, sir, you do not have the votes and it's time to withdraw. with that, i yield. thank you. yield back? >> yes, ma'am. the reading clerk will again call th e roll. >> adams? jeffries, adderhaul

it, mccarthy, allen, mccarthy,alred, jeffries, amade, mccarthy, armstrong, armstrong? arrington, mccarthy. jeffries.

mccarthy. bacon? >> mccarthy. >> baird? >> mccarthy. >> balldeson? >> mccarthy. >> ballot? >> jeffries? >> banks? >> mccarthy. >> barr? >> mccarthy. >> jeffries. >> florida? >> kevin mccarthy. >> mccarthy. >> bette? >> jeffries. >> mccarthy.

>> jeffries. burkeman. >> mccarthy. >> mccarthy. >> bier? >> jeffries. >> byce? >> bigs? >> donalds? >> mccarthy. bishop of georgia? >> jeffries. >> bishop of north carolina? >> donalds. >> bloomenhaur? >> jeffries. >> rochester? >> jeffries. >> bobert?

>> donalds. >> bonamicci? >> jeffries. >> boste? >> mccarthy. >> boman? >> jeffries. >> boil of pennsylvania? >> jeffries. >> donalds. >> brown? >> jeffries. brownly? >> jeffries. >> buchanan? >> mccarthy. >>