update on demar hamlin who is the buffalo bill's safety who received a cardiac arrest that was shocking, but the doctors had good news about the substantial improvement that they were significantly concerned after he was brought in. the neurological condition and fitness are intact, they said, although obviously a lot more has to happen before they can come to any long-term conclusions. let's bring in the chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta, and can you give us the headlines that you heard from your medical point of view? >> yes, those are the headlines, jake. 2 1/2 days roughly since the injury and the cardiac arrest, and that is a substantial amount of improvement that they are describing not only in terms of the overall status, but also as you are pointing out the neurological status in

particular. jake, one of the things that you worry about when somebody has cardiac arrest is that there was simply not enough oxygenated blood getting to the brain, and you don't know until someone has woken up from sedation and is able to talk. he is not able to talk because of the intubation, but he is able to communicate with writing, and moving his hands and feet. but he is described as critically ill, jake, because it has only been 2 1/2 days, and so there may be periods of the roller coaster still in terms of the recovery which you will see with critically ill patients, and maybe not a linear track of improvement. so that is what i heard.

it was a quick response, and we kept hearing that, and we got details of what that means. on the field, he had cpr performed, and he had defibrillation performed. the defibrillation was performed to restore normal breathing restored, and he had a breathing tube in place, and paramedics came out, and the team doctors came out, and that sort of planning is taking place for all games, and that is something that i learned. you hope that you don't have to use it, and they hardly have to use it, but in this case when they do, it appears to have worked well. >> thank you, sanjay, for that important news from the university of cincinnati news, and there is history about to be made as they proceed in congress for the eighth ballot, and kevin mccarthy has managed to lose seven straight times. >> it is not an option todayk

the and we have reached an existential crisis in the country. i look across, and i see that the left has captured virtually every institution. it is time that we reassert ourselves and put america back on the road to recovery, and the person who i think that is most capable and will do the most credible job to lead us back that way is my friend from florida, the honorable byron donalds whom i am pleased and proud to nominate as the next speaker of the house of representatives. >> the reading clerk will call the roll.

>> ready. teresa? adams. >> jeffries. >> jeffries. aderholt. >> mccarthy. >> mccarthy. aguilar. jeffries. >> mccarthy. alford. allen. >> all right. so we are in the eighth ballot

now starting again and going through this. the republicans are -- mccarthy does not want this, but here we are going again. >> so we have a long way to get to 113, and, you know, we will be doing this for a while, and scott points out correctly, that chip roy is back there, and perry is back there and negotiating in good faith to get some movement there, and all that -- i don't want to steal your thunder there. >> well, it is seeming simple at this point, the roy faction is negotiating with mccarthy, and until they come out of the room and say that we have a deal or don't have a deal, the vote tallies are not going to change. >> and just to be clear, who are you putting in the faction? roy, perry -- >> well, he has ten people and so there is 20 anti-mccarthy votes that are going to leave ten that are not in the faction. so pretend that he gets a deal,

and now you are down to 10, but you are not there, and then closer, and the hope is that the pressure would build on them to change. however, i was texting with a member on the floor, and he said, look, it like i told kevin mccarthy that there is a group of people that will never vote for you, and that is the question of more or less than five, and right now there is more than five saying that, but could the pressure peel off one or two. >> you lock the door, and you get in a caucus, and you lock the door to presence, and lower the vote number, but to david's point, you don't want to lower it too much that it is hakeem jeffries. so it is a delicate balance. >> okay, to your point, you lock them in the room, and what do you to give them to go present, david? >> when i used to work in the senate, right, the republican caucus, and it used to be at one point in time, and it would

exert the presence to flip not a million, but one or two. >> everything is taking such importance here, david. andy ogles with a conversation with kevin mccarthy when it started on the floor, and what is that conversation about, because he has been among the 20 who have been voting against mccarthy, and every one of the conversation, and the fact that they are still occurring frankly at this point matters. >> yeah, it matters, but i don't know exactly what these conversations are all about, because so much has been given away already. you know, the question is just does one side or another decide that the cost of going on like this is too much. i have been of the mind that particularly of those 20 are not the kind of people who say it is too much, because basically, they not governing -- >> that is the brand. and when the brand is chaos, and

matt gaetz told cnn when it is starting, this ends one of two ways, kevin mccarthy withdraws the or we construct a straitjacket. so we will listen. lauren boebert. >> hearn. >> made a little speech, it sounds like. >> and david, you are asking what they are giving away. >> and some of what you are giving away in some of these meetings is more than negotiating details of the document, but it is building trust, because if you are negotiating something like this, and it is not something that you are going to do today, and if you were mccarthy, you have to follow through over the next couple of years, and so there has to be a trust level with the negotiators to follow through, and so some of it is the team-building, trust-building in addition to the technical details. >> the problem of course is that as the trust goes up with those 20, and the trust may dissipate among some others who are

unhappy about what he is giving away, and so it is a very, very difficult process, and i just don't know. i mean, this is you guy's world, and i'm just living in it. >> we heard another vote for kevin hearn, and lauren boebert voted for kevin hearn, and that is new. anything else about that? >> well, i don't know. >> i know, it is like -- but this i understand that this is the world we are in and gates switched to trump, and now you have lauren boebert, and another for this kevin hearn from oklahoma. we are just going to -- >> well, i mean, we have seen seven different people give the nominating speeches and candidates and it is like everybody gets a turn, but it is not clear what is serious, you know. >> these are the protest votes whether it is hearn or donald trump or whatever, it is a protest vote. >> but the math is the math, and

whether it is hearn or trump or vote for david axelrod. >> not more can be given, but what granularity the negotiations are taken. >> and what you are reduced to writing and the debt ceiling and the appropriations bills and how far in the weeds, and how many people are on the propes bills. >> and the fiscal issues are the paramount to him and the negotiations. >> and so that may be to take some time, and we are willing to -- and the cardinals have not been appointed and the app appropriations chairs have not been given out, and the subcommittees are tough to do, and so it is hard. >> and the matt gaetz' tweet, if chip roy comes out with some good faith, and you go from 211

to 212 and 213 and you are that close, boy, i tell you to have that attitude when you have got everybody but five people in your conference or six people who want to do something, that is a, that is quite a thing. i would think some pressure brought to bear. >> he is not changing. and the question that he had -- >> let me just ask, because manu had a chance to speak to mccarthy, and what did he say to you? >> defiant. i asked him why so hard to get fewer than 20 opponents to vote towards you, and he said, well, it is because we don't have a deal. when we have a deal, that is when the votes will change. i said, how long are you willing to keep this going, and he said until i win. so he is not going anywhere, and he is making it clear that is

the posture, and this is the posture from the beginning. he is under the impression that the talks ongoing behind the scenes right now are going to be eventually bearing fruit. they have not so far, but yesterday some positive way, but today, not going his direction, but the talks are ongoing. there is a meeting that is happening throughout the course of the votes on the first floor of the capitol and one of the top deputies tom emmer and byron donalds and chip roy and dan bishop, and people have been voting against mccarthy are continuing to have the meetings, and this is giving mccarthy some hope that he will eventually get there, and he said that the votes are not going to change, and he expects 20 votes to go against him here again on the eighth ballot, but he said, until we get a deal that is when the votes will change, but he is saying that he is not going to be dropping out. he says that he is going to be winning here, and that when the

things will change. erin. >> all right. >> and he says that he is not going anywhere, and we can agree on that, but we don't know what it means. >> and kevin hern, he is a republican from oklahoma, and tell us about him. >> he is the chairman of the conservative study committee, and other republicans are members there, and that is what my colleague and i have been hearing and the hardliners are batting this name around, and who they might nominate, and today, we are seeing it that they are nominating him. but what i want to point out is that he does not have 218 votes, and there are no signs that he is wanting this job either, and this is another sign that the hardliners don't have strategy or viable alternative at this moment, and you are starting to

see as the votes are dragging on, you see other names, and also, donald trump's name mentioned by matt gaetz, and these are not serious names, but additional ways to protest and show that kevin mccarthy does not have the number of votes. >> and we are hearing about kevin hern, and now five votes against kevin mccarthy, and just turned to six. so there it is for the eighth round which we can see where it is going. >> it is as described, we are locked in the sort of groundhog day scenario until something changes here. so, i think that part of what is going on here is going through the exercise of these votes is creating time for these guys to sit behind closed doors to hammer it out while people vote again and again and again, and we will see if it produces something. >> so with all of the time that you have spent on capitol hill,

and can you talk about that, and we are seeing the ugly sausage being made, and people are going on the floor to vote, and you have the top deputies and sometimes them on the behind closed doors and how can you have a serious negotiation as they are running in and out of the room to vote. >> well, it seems like principle-level conversations to hammer out the ideas. it sounds like the roy group has appointed him and perry and maybe oneer two others to speak on their behalf, or it feels that way. and so that is a good thing, and not a bunch of the go betweens and principle to principle, and so in theory, that could expedite it. >> and then, when principles are making the agreement, and it has to be reduced to writing, then, we both want the same thing, and it is reduced to writing, and that is mot not what i wanted, then you are back at it.

>> and so that is you can shake hands, and then write it down, and it is not the same thing next week. >> and they can negotiate as much power, seats on the rules committee or the senior appropriations positions, and so, as i said earlier, whatever happens here, it feels as if this group of 20 has played their cards pretty well, right? they are going to have a much more important role in the house. >> we are taking a brief pause, and we are on vote eight, and it appears that once again mccarthy has failed to secure the speakership, and he has amassed eight votes against. so we will take a break right now as there is a loss for mccarthy and no speaker of the house and our coverage continues.

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right now the house of representatives is voting, again, on the eighth ballot to choose a house speaker and for the eighth time, this will end with kevin mccarthy, the republican house leader losing. the never kevin hardliners have been holding line eight times straight, and the fear among the top mccarthy lieutenants is the ns neh-kevin voters who are better with him, but unenthusiastic kevin voters will defect, and not the meh kevin supporter, a former kevin supporter, and so what effect are these negotiations having on the 201 republicans who continue to vote for mccarthy and on the core group who is enthusiastically

for him? >> the core group of those who are enthusiastically for kevin is actually growing, and that is why there is no one who can get to 218 right now. you are seeing in the 20 right now, jake, they are scrambling, and talking about negotiating, and maybe ken buck is right, they do have a plan to stick together, but i would hope that a few of them are negotiating in good faith, because they are getting a lot of things that they are asking for, but in the end, the end, the pro-kevin forces that could keep it going for days and days if the 20 continue to not accept the deal, they are growing in numbers, and growing in strength, and as i talked to one of my good friends who's in the democrat leadership team today, and they said that the dems are enjoying it, so it is not going to end soon unless we see a break. >> how long can the democrats enjoy this spectacle, and i hate to point it out, but historically, there have been 15

of these that have gone multiple ballots, and the last one was 100 years ago, and one of them, we are on the eighth vote, but one of them went to 133 ballots, and it was quite some time ago in the mid-1800s, but how long are the democrats going to be putting out the popcorn emojies and laughing about it? >> well, i would have liked to have seen the twitter feeds 100 years ago, but it is real time, and the american people should put pressure on their member of the congress, and say, let's get together to govern, but to answer your question, jake, there is going to be some real concern on both sides as we get into the weekend there. are things that freshmen members of congress have had planned, and conferences that are being put on outside of washington, d.c., that are going to be impacted. their families are here, and so, when the democrats are feeling, this is enough. that is when you will look at what is happening on the floor of what is the 12th, and the 13th round of votes, and you

look at don bacon carrying a pocket pen and talking to the democrats and a dave joyce doing that or the moderate democrats coming over to talk to the republicans, and the conversations if this is dragging on through the weekend that your viewers have to look at and consider the bipartisan impact that this is having on both sides. >> all right. congressman, go celebrate your birthday, and let's chat about this. dana bash, let me ask you something, that the numbers are staying solid and basically 201 for kevin mccarthy, and congressman jeffries is about to have the eighth straight victory though it is meaningless except for the fact that it shows how the democrats are sticking together, and again, 20 people voting against kevin mccarthy, and some of the votes now, we have them shifting from congressman byron donalds of florida, and now two going for congressman kevin hern who is

the new chairman of the conservative study group which is a new group in congress, and now, matt gaetz just voted for donald trump again. at what point can any sense of shame as you heard rodney davis talk about be brought to bear? do any of the any feedback loop that this is stew 3id and making your party look bad, and enough. >> they don't care. they want this to be chaos and look ridiculous, and that word shame, i love that word, because a couple of years ago, shame left washington and i don't think it is ever coming back.

because the notion of shame is what kept so many people in line, what kept so much of the facade, the civility intact, and that is gone. donald trump took shame and threw it in the garbage can, and he made it okay to not feel bad. the irony is that at this very moment in time, he is one of those calling those 20 saying come on, go with kevin mccarthy, and you are saying that it is a tepid lobbying campaign, but at least he is doing it. >> is he still calling? >> he has not called anyone as of today, and the last time that i had heard he had spoked with people is after the first day of failed voting is that he had spoken with 19. >> but he got the back of the hand rhetorically from lauren boebert on the floor yesterday.

>> although she did vote for him on the seventh ballot. >> that is unintentional, because you heard zinke saying that two things that trump hates the most is to be ignored or called out, and the call to vote for mccarthy is ignored and lauren boebert said not only voting for kevin mccarthy, but that he should not tell people to vote for kevin mccarthy. trump is sitting back more than we think watching this, and he knows that the calls are going unheeded, and he is not calling 20 specifically and saying that you should vote for kevin mccarthy, and he understands what is happening, and he is sitting back more than mccarthy and them would like him to. >> and in retall ti, the person who is most afraid of donald trump or is most afraid of donald trump right now is kevin mccarthy. >> sure. >> because he does care a lot about making sure that trump does not do more to seem to break away from him, but they will take tepid right now over

potentially the alternative. the shame word is really interesting, because trump's administration, and trump's washington was a shameless place, and the reality is that these people may not be listening to trump, but they are acting like he acted. they are essentially saying that this is about me, and this is about my personal brand, and my notoriety and anyone who has covered or worked with matt gaetz would not hesitate to describe it that way, and they are doing it at the expense of the institution that they are in theory a member of, and whether that institution is the republican party or now the house of representatives themselves. >> and john, one of the things that you hear from the mccarthy supporters who again may not be super enthusiastic about it or may want to get down to work is that the rules changes that these rebels have already exacted from mccarthy or whomever ends up being speaker, because it is not like the next person is going to go back on

that are going to make legislating close to impossible. >> so whoever wins the speakership, will that person be speaker for a week, a month, by august when you have to do the debt ceiling, and that means that you have to be responsible, and responsible is the word here, and respecting the system, the organization, the government. dana put it as plainly as you can put it, they don't care. especially a small majority, you have to accept your responsibility as a member of the team. pick your business, pick your sport, and imagine if a baseball team goes on the field, and the right fielder decides to pitch. someone has to be in charge of any organization, and that does not mean that you agree with the manager or the coach, and imagine the two doctors that we just listened to, and all of the people who treated the buffalo bills' player if they said, no, i don't want to do that.

when you are the team, you have to work as a team. yes, you can go to the boss and say, i would like this, this, this, but they don't care that responsibility, and they don't respect that responsibility. so 58 days after the american people, and every historical marker, the republicans said they would win 20 or 30 seats, but they won 10. they lost a seat, and why? because the american people said we don't crazy, we will take center right, but not center crazy. what is happening in the house right now? crazy. >> we don't see any sign that it is changing. we thought that this morning that chip roy might be able to bring over some people, but it did not happen. kevin mccarthy is headed toward the eighth defeat, and this is a devastating loss, and anything else that he can offer towards them, and the shirt off of his back, but it is not making a

difference to the never kevins. i did speak to a senior republican, and i said, is there anything that changes the vote at this point, and the senior member said a member will go to the point where the concessions that kevin is making, he will not be able to live with them. >> and i don't know if it is about concessions, because if these promises get finalized on a piece of paper, but at a certain point, i don't know if he can win. >> if power is exerted through kind of a system of benefits and punishments, and kevin mccarthy doesn't have either to offer, and neither the carrot or the stick, then you are in the situation that he is in now. and this is a breaking of the model of speaker, the speakership in a profound way at least for this party. and you know what makes a pelosi effective and made a tip o'neill effective and rayburn effective is to bring the hammer down that

you need to, and make a deal that you need to, and it is not a personality thing, but it is how to speakership office was working as we have known it the last 100 years at least, and you have a group of people coming in since boehner, and they have said, we don't want this anymore. we don't want the top-down anymore, and we don't want you to dole out a committeeship to this person or that person, and this is part of the existential debate, how should this place be run, and not because we are sticklers for the rules, but because it has an effect of legislation for the rest of the country. >> but the key part of that, that you are missing in the kevin mccarthy questions about the vote for kevin mccarthy is that they are getting it. >> and he not getting anything back. >> and that is why i am saying they are breaking the model, and

by the time they are done, and whoever has this job, it is a diminished position. they do not want government, they want anarchy, and you can't have both, anarchy and government. >> i don't know if this is a question that is answerable, but say that mccarthy is out, and a scalise or somebody else, if those things are still on the table, will they accept it as long as it is another human in that speaker's role. >> that is a question that nobody has answered yet. >> and coming up next, what this real paralysis of this house means among the republicans, because your government cannot work. more cnn special coverage coming up after this break. tion? better. cough? fever? better. mucinex all in one relieves 9 symptoms in 1 dose. it's not cold and flu season. it's always comeback season.

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to extend the life of teeth. crest. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. under way right now, speaker ballot number eight. enough republican registers have cast ballots to sink mccarthy for an eighth time. mccarthy said he is defiant, and he is telling manu that he is going to win once he strikes a deal with the hardliners and it is a strong solid 20 against him. we go to lauren fox. and this is where we stand for the people who are watching this, and the votes going again and again, and the failed vote is still going on, and the speaker of the house being failed has consequences, and at this point, we are not close to getting a speaker.

>> yes, erin. that means that they are not legislating and not doing what they are sent here to do, and that is meaning a lot for the moderates who are making the argument time and time again on the floor. there is a mess and a circus happen, but they are not passing legislation, and they are not working on things that the republicans ran on -- securing the border, trying to rein in the budget, and those items can not come to the floor, because they are not sworn in yet, and i spoke to house speaker nancy pelosi yesterday, and she said what if january 6th occurred and the lawmakers were not sworn in, and they could not count the votes for the presidential election, because the speaker was not sworn n and she said thank god that the democrats were in charge, because she said that the republicans are not showing themselves to be good at governing yet. it is three days and more time ahead, and the political season

can be long, erin, but there is a lot that is not happening on the house floor right now. >> yeah, absolutely. thank you very much, lauren fox. david, just to be clear here so that people understand, you are seeing round after round, because without a speaker, there is nothing else they can do except for vote on a speaker. >> absolutely. this is the first vote a congress has to cast before they can organize themselves. and there is no other business before the house until they elect a speaker so that they can then organize themselves, and so that everything is held in abeyance to this fight. this is a curiosity to people, but as time goes on, there is outrage to this, and that is also going to put pressure, but the pressure is going to be falling on those who care about governing and not those who are very much in the kneelist group. >> and that is going to bring us

back to the question of how broken the democracy is, because we are now at the place of the impasse where we are talking about whether or not people can be shamed. it is not about shame. we know that shame is gone. but accountability. who is matt gaetz think that he is accountable to? the people who follow him on twitter or instagram. so again, when you are thinking of maybe that we are able to get move 10, but you will have another 10 that seem to be immovable, and david urban says to lock them in the room, and don't let them -- >> ever. >> ever. be thaw is seeming to where we are going. >> that is an easy threshold. >> that what matt gaetz is saying. >> and it is not whether you can shame them into getting something done, but it is about whether or not there is anything? that you can give them that they actually want, and the last point is, too, at the end of the day, don't lose sight of how weak of a speaker kevin mccarthy or whomever takes this deal, and

why would you want this job is going to be in an ungovernable caucus. >> scott, as we are watching and anyone is watching at the moment by moment is talking to whom is watching, and you were talking about thomas massie. >> yes, my congressman from the kentucky 4th district, woo, according to where tom cohen is going to where the anti-kevin mccarthy supporters were just seen according to the reporter from punch bowl, and massey is usually the one, and he is interesting history and won a primary despite donald trump's opposition to him, and he is outspoken on a number of issue, and he was once a libertarian, and it was floated that he might end up on the rules committee as part of the overall package that would satisfy the house

conservative, and the fact that he is in there, a, and the fact that he has stuck with mccarthy all of the time is telling me something interesting about the role that he is putting together the roy faction together. >> and so, let me add this, david, in emmer's office, and talking about congressman massey and perry also in these conversation, and as he is going back to emmer's office, he is saying, quote, we are not really even talking and it yet. >> okay. well, i will try to -- >> story to pour some wet fruit there on that, and sorry to mix the metaphors, but the wet blanket. >> back to the wet crab thing there with the metaphor. if you are a support over mccarthy, there

negotiations going on, and they are negotiating about kevin going on, and there is no side negotiations going on, and lauren boebert is on the floor, and other people, serious people, and i don't know who is part of the group, but scott perry in and out, an chip roy in and out, and massey, the people in and out, and the people who seemingly want to get to a deal getting in and out, and that going to make kevin mccarthy the speaker, and maybe not today or tomorrow, but i have heard nothing and seen anything, but nobody else is being talked about, and the 20, they are not meeting in another room, and this is the plan. >> well, jim jordan, when they nominated him, he was vehement that he would not take it. ken hern, a source close to kevin hern is telling lauren fox that he is not opposed to being

the speaker, and if he fails, he is not opposed. >> he is 200 votes short. >> that is the thing, there is a lot of people who would not be opposed to winning the lottery. but the reality is that there is a bloc of people who like kevin mccarthy and are not just willing to entertain the idea of some random person becoming the speaker and essentially handing this minority group the victory. >> pause there, and the hardliners are saying no to kevin mccarthy, and we are on ballot eight, and you will be seeing this in session, because they can't do anything else other than to nominate a speaker. so who are the people who are refusing to vote yes, and refusing to move this forward and more cnn live coverage coming up. >> westerman. mccarthy. >> weston.

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welcome back to cnn's live special coverage. eight, count them, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, public humiliations for republican leader kevin mccarthy, courtesy of the republican rebels in his own caucus. this is the unchanging face of the opposition, 20 members of congress who have repeatedly said no to making mccarthy the leader of the new republican majority in the house, putting him a few heartbeats away from the presidency. let's get over to john king who has agreed to take a stroll over to tell us who these 20 men and women are. >> reporter: we see them on the floor and let's map out and show where they come from. and why they might think this

might hurt them politically back home. there are 222 house republicans. that's a net gain of ten from the election that was just shy of 60 days ago. democrats' 213 here, and the number is 212 because one passed away after the election. democrats are down to 212. you mentioned twho are these holdouts? if you count spartz of indiana, she has voted present. these others have voted for other candidates, and as you can see geographically, it's a diverse mix. they're republicans from all across the country. if it's deep red, that means they won comfortably. if it's more of a pink, that means they were relatively close races. lauren boebert stands out among the holdouts in that when she won re-election this month, she just won re-election. 546 votes. she is taking the biggest

political risk here, you could argue. they just septembnt her back to congress. does she care? that's the a question for her. most of these republicans won big. let's come down to oklahoma. you have congressman-elect here josh frisch, and 72.4% of the vote. the country might not like what's happening, the chaos on the floor. he got 72% of the vote and he thinks he is safe. let's move around the country a little bit more. scott perry of the freedom caucus is one of those who is in a bit of a nippy district, a safe, but not blowout republican district. he got 54% of the vote in the election 60 days ago. is this a risk? he has decided it's worth taking. still a solid republican district, but not by a blowout margin. you come down to maryland and you see andy harris again. if you want to round out, this is a solid republican district. not a 60% or 70% district, but

andy harris thinks he can be anti-establishment, anti-leader, anti-institution. pick the term you like there, and that is what is interesting. if you look at the map and you pull it out, most of these are safe republicans. yes, they're defying their leadership, and they may be embarrassing their party. they may be embarrassing the institution. they might be ignoring the national will of the american people, jake, but when they look at the districts back home, and we'll go to illinois now. we had congressman davis on. former congressman davis. he was beaten by mary miller. she had donald trump's endorsement. she had 71% of the vote in that district. she thinks people back home will support here. he's the 21 of them here. if you look at the 21 of them, 16 of them received donald trump's endorsement back in their primary. so they got here, in part, thanks to donald trump. donald trump wants him to vote

kevin mccarthy, but they say, no. >> i have to say i am not yet convinced that donald trump is actually firmly fully throwing his weight behind kevin mccarthy. we saw a statement on truth social yesterday, and you reported that he made some phone calls monday. i mean, he has shown more passion going after the cast of "hamilton" than he does about these rebels. >> ruby freeman, the election worker in georgia, he has gone after her more than he has anyone else this week. >> putting himself in potential legal liability by the way which we'll cover when we get back to covering normal things. >> whenever this is -- >> he no longer has the protection of the presidency is all i'm saying because he's back slandering and libelling this woman. >> he is 100% not out there, you know, making these calls, trying to win votes. he has not been making these aggressive calls in recent days trying to get people to switch their votes.

i think one thing that acknowledges those, they are not scared of him anymore in the sense that they need to do what he says. >> or they don't believe it. they don't think he actually cares. >> trump has a very complicated relationship with kevin mccarthy. he has not always been thrilled with him. i was talking to people who were talking to trump on monday night and trump was saying, well, you know, kevin did back some of their primary opponents. kind of saying there's a reason for some of these people to be so frustrated with kevin mccarthy and not want to support him. i think that's part of this as well, is that trump has waffled on this. remember when someone said he endorsed kevin mccarthy and he said, i didn't. he did put out a statement saying he deserved a shot but that speaks to a layer. trump doesn't have a lot of influence, but he's not really in working on this. >> that's what i'm saying. >> i asked the question, why isn't he pushing hard enough? the answer was, i think deep down he understands he doesn't

have the juice that he once had. >> more on display. >> that trump doesn't have the juice? >> trump himself understands that he doesn't have the juice. that would be a moment of self-reflection and awareness that we haven't seen. >> that would be interesting. >> so far. >> he's not the president of the united states of america anymore. the dynamics that everybody learned in the house were when largely he was serving as president, and when he said stuff, they had to react to it or, you know, things were going to do down, and the reality has changed. >> i need to throw it to erin now. here's a little gruel for you. i mentioned the longest this process ever took in american history was in 1856. it took 133 ballots, and it lasted two months. how did they get out of it? they changed to plurality rule. you no longer had to win a majority. it was just whoever got the most votes which is something we've heard some republicans talking about. >> which would be amazing, but

can we just not have it take 133 rounds, jake? i'm doing the math of what that means. >> i agree. >> reporter: but it is, you know, obviously the -- where we are, it's simply an amazing moment, and not in a good way. let's go now to the republican representative chris stewart of utah. congressman, you hear jake talking about that, right? when you look at the history here, 133 rounds, and then they ended up changing the rules. so i can just ask you how you feel about where we are right now, on round eight? >> so i don't think we're going to go 133 rounds, and i don't think it's going to take, you know, two-plus months to do this. i think this will be settled in the next few days, and i think we need to make movement with people in private conversations that are taking place. i'm not predicting it's going to be, you know, we're not going to have a speaker by tend of today, but i don't think it's going to be much longer and certainly

it'll be the most votes for the speaker of the house. >> you have supported mccarthy through thick and thin. you have been clear about that. you said you have no second choice, but let me just follow up on something you said there, congressman. you said there has been some movement from some people. can you just elaborate a little bit more on that? obviously what we see when the votes come is this group of 20 who have different interests and certainly are not all the same, but we haven't seen a movement at all when it comes to the vote count. >> yeah, and i'm not surprised by that. in fact, i would have been surprised had on this last round, had you seen movement on that, and the reason being is that there are still conversations taking place. kevin indicated that earlier today. he said himself, i don't think you're going to see much change in the vote count through today, but that doesn't mean that those lines are solid. it doesn't mean that there aren't conversations taking place. nor does it mean that i don't think there's movement because i do believe that there is.

i think kevin mccarthy is going to be the speaker of the house. i think we'll get to that point in fairly short order. i hate to predict because oh my gosh. it's very difficult under the circumstances, but i certainly don't think it's going to be weeks. i think it's probably a matter of a few days, and we'll get to what we're anxious to do. >> anybody watching, i would hope no matter what political persuasion hopes you're right. when you talk about discussions behind closed doors, congressman perry just was headed back into office, and when asked if he could get to a deal today, and the question was about today, but his answer was, we're not even really talking about a deal. >> yeah. >> that doesn't seem to fit with what you are saying or am i missing something? >> well, i think that might have been his characterization of that moment, and it might have been his personal -- his personal position as well, but remember.

scott, who is a friend of mine. he and i came to congress together and he's someone i have great respect for. scott can't speak for the other 20 members. he can't speak for all of them, and as you indicated, some of them do have different positions and different goals. some of them are very principled by the way. there are some others and i haven't hesitated to challenge them on this, if you go into leader mccarthy's office and say, hey, i'll vote for you if you put me on this exclusive committee or put my friends on these committees, or anything self-interested, that's not about our country or party, and almost all of, and i think all of it at that point say, look. i'm no longer interested in your view on this if you are doing this for your own personal gain. many of them are not, and many of them are having genuine conversations about what's it going to take, how long is it going to take, and how can we resolve this? those conversations are taking ac