scott, who is a friend of mine. he and i came to congress together and he's someone i have great respect for. scott can't speak for the other 20 members. he can't speak for all of them, and as you indicated, some of them do have different positions and different goals. some of them are very principled by the way. there are some others and i haven't hesitated to challenge them on this, if you go into leader mccarthy's office and say, hey, i'll vote for you if you put me on this exclusive committee or put my friends on these committees, or anything self-interested, that's not about our country or party, and almost all of, and i think all of it at that point say, look. i'm no longer interested in your view on this if you are doing this for your own personal gain. many of them are not, and many of them are having genuine conversations about what's it going to take, how long is it going to take, and how can we resolve this? those conversations are taking place, and they are having some

slow, obviously, frustratingly slow, but positive outcomes. >> mat gaetz said this ends one of two ways. either mccarthy withdraws from the race, or we construct a straitjacket he's unable to evade. do you support some that support mccarthy that say he is an conceding too much? to arsonists in some c concessions. >> that's the question. that's very frustrating. i remind your viewers, and i know most of them, and you know this. we had an election. in november, all the republicans and all the democrats got together in their individual caucus or conference and they elected their leadership, and w anyone could run. you could stand up and campaign and lobby, and kevin was elected our speaker. it wasn't even close. 190 to 30, so there is that

frustration. is kevin giving too much? i don't think he has to this point, but he's very, very close, and i think he knows that he's very close. in fact, some of these individuals said there's really nothing more he can give or us to ask for, and i do believe we're at the point now where we would so weaken the leadership if we were to concede any more that it would be in the very difficult leadership position anyway, it would make it nearly impossible to lead. i think that's why people on both sides recognize we're probably at that point, and there's very little negotiation that'll take place over those issues which is why i think we're going to near an impasse where we can break through and have some positive movement. >> and so what is your bottom line? you say that you're at a point where he cannot give anymore, and does that mean this ends with speaker mccarthy still in your view? >> i'm sorry, the question? >> does this mean we end with a speaker mccarthy?

>> no, i really do, and i'm not just saying that for the public. i'm saying that because i genuinely believe that. nothing in the last few days has made me not doubt -- or made me doubt that kevin will be our speaker. i'm confident he will be. >> congressman stewart, thank you for your time. thank you for joining us in this ongoing voting. >> scott, what do you hear there? i think it was interesting there at the end of that conversation he said i don't think he has given up too much to this point, but he's very close. >> he's very close, and of this 201 that has stuck with mccarthy, there's a core group in there, or some group inside that, that they didn't come to give away the store to people who have a fundamentally different world view, or they aren't there to solve problems or fix health care or the border, whatever. they didn't come to be held hostage by these people, and so there is a balance. now if the alternative is to get

it a little closer to that line and get mccarthy the speakership, i guess most of them will fall in line, but this is what we have been discussing. at what point is it too much, and mccarthy starts to bleed support on the other side of algebra? it starts to get close. >> that's the point we have been making. what is it worth to have the speakership if you basically ceded so much power and authority to this smaller group of people withinu your caucus wo have a fundamentally different approach to governing and to policy that, you know, you're being held hostage to it? i, you know, i don't know. he says he hasn't -- he's come -- he's close to the line, but he hasn't crossed the line. we don't really know because we know what's been reported. we don't know what's been offered, but i don't know how much more you have to say. if you say, any one member can

call for a vote to vacate the speaker's job if they don't like what you have done, i don't know exactly where the line is. >> well, that does make you wonder. so as these conversations are happening, that you all are hearing about, again, that 201, how many of them are watching this, and looking at exactly that question? at what cost, kevin mccarthy, are you going to be the speaker, and at some point, for those who say, i came here to legislate, i actually do have shame. i do feel accountable to the people who elected me back home, again, those tensions as this continues to play out over the course of days, hopefully not 180-plus, that gets a lot harder. to get that coalition together. >> again, there's no plan b. if you said, where's the alternative? there is no alternative. an alternative maybe, and jake alluded to this earlier, a rule change, right? at what point -- that's a

question that i think we will start talking about a little bit more if we go vote after vote after vote. i think it'll require democrats to vote for it as well. would democrats support a rule change to lower simple majority to elect the spaeaker, right? you might get democrats to vote for something like that, not for mccarthy directly, but a rule change, and they can move the ball forward and again, being careful because you're still going to have more votes than hakeem jeffries. >> the other thing is go to a runoff. runoffs haven't been great for republicans lately, but if you had the top two advance -- >> rank order. >> i'm saying because you put those 20 on the spot. incident sound like they're close. a friend of mine from indiana passes along that an email he just got. you want to know what this is all about for some of these guys? just received a fund-raising email from andy biggs, fellow

american. we blocked kevin mccarthy from becoming speaker of the house. can i count on your support? >> wait, wait, wait. >> they don't want to govern at all. >> right, and look. this is something that's fundamentally wrong with our political system right now. the incentives are misaligned. you want to raise money, be outrageous. marjorie taylor greene is one of the great fundraisers in the republican party. she's on mccarthy's side here because he made certain commitments to her, but she got there by being outrageous. >> outrage sells. craziness sells on both sides. >> i'm not saying otherwise, but the point is there are incentives beyond governing that these people are responding to. i just want to make bone point. there's been a lot of discussion about how democrats are chortling and democrats, you know, they're enjoying this, and all of that, but i would caution

democrats that at some point, there's going to be a general sense discussed about this whole thing, and if the perception is, and i think, you know, there's nothing democrats particularly can do right now about the situation, but if the perception is that they're sort of enjoying the spectacle, you know, popcorn and all of that stuff, i think there will be people out there who say, this is exactly what we don't like about washington, you know, each side trying to get -- find the advantage over the other. now most of the democrats i talked to are, you know, they're sort of appalled by what's going on, and they want to get on with the work of governing, but i would just caution democrats not to enjoy this too much because the whole system of governing that they -- that they care about is being jeopardized here. >> as a larger political matter, we have been talking about the republicans looking towards 2024. do you know who this benefits in

a weird way? ron desantis. part of the appeal of him, not part of washington, and the chaos and drama, confidence. if you are him and you're sitting out there and you're plotting your presidential campaign and washington just looks broken, trump gets involved. he looks impotent, and this whole thing, republicans will look at this and say, we have got to find somebody who's outside. >> he was at the inaugural address. >> i was there on tuesday. i watched it. it was very -- it looked presidential, clean, look at me. i can run things. >> he's got things under control. these guys don't. >> a very jackie o. appearance. one thing i want to ask about, what chris stewart had to say there. obviously he wants to be optimistic, and he wants to put a narrative out there, but he said a couple of specific things. he said there's movement from some people and we'll have a speaker in fairly short order, implying it won't be today. not today. what sort of timing are we looking at for something? i mean, if it's mccarthy, it'll

be in the next few days or not at snall? >> not next new days. lock the doors. at some point, you know, this breaks. the fever breaks, and whether it takes a day, two days, 100 votes, they're going to keep going. kevin mcchararthy is not going away. maybe matt gaetz isn't going away, but that gap continues to narrow until you have four or five or three. >> that could go much longer. >> few get it down prevailing - theory is you could possibly pressure the five holdouts and get one or two to peel off. there's some perverse incentive, and every single one of the five is the one just like in this fund-raising. i'm the one person standing between you and the establishment, and so i agree that block the door and try to pressure them. the perverse part of this is they may actually be emboldened by being able to say, i'm the

only one stopping this. >> at what point do people say in the 200 and whatever, you know what? we love you, kevin, but we got to get going? >> but ax, my point is there's no other option. >> there's no other option because they're pledged to him now. if he were not to run -- >> that's right. >> -- there would be another option. >> this may necessitate another option. >> and we will see because our special coverage is continuing and i don't know for how long, but certainly it is going to continue over the next break, and jake and i will be back right after that. how do i do it all? with a little help. and to support my family's immune health, i choose airborne. unlike some others, airborne gives you vitamin c and so much more. it's an 8 in 1 immune support formula. airborne. do more. people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's a little number you'll never forget. ♪customize and save♪

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that's how many times the house republican caucus has rejected kevin mccarthy, tasting the sourness of the house floor again for the third day in a row. holdouts steadfast in their conviction to choose apparently anyone except for kevin mccarthy. let's listen in as they announce the final votes on this eighth ballot. >> the honorable kevin hearn of the state of oklahoma has received two. the honorable donald j. trump of the state of florida has received one. with one recorded as present. no member-elect having received a majority of the votes cast, a speaker has not been elected. the reading clerk will again -- from what purpose does the

gentleman from texas rise? >> madam clerk, i rise to nominate kevin mccarthy as speaker of the house. >> sounds like we're going through -- it sounds like we're going for a ninth ballot now, a ninth ball wilot. let's listen into the the nominating speeches for mccarthy, jeffries and others. >> kevin mccarthy has been our leader for the past four years and has overwhelming support within this conference. my intent today is to address the american people who have been watching these proceedings. my intent today is to address the american people, who have been watching these proceedings and are concerned about what they've seen in this chamber over the past two days. i am a member of the house freedom caucus, and i am proud to say so. i believe the 20 members that

have nominated an alternate candidate have expressed their concerns with leadership, and many of those concerns have been addressed and accepted by leader mccarthy and this conference. i believe this battle we are raging must end. kevin mccarthy fully understands that being speaker of the house will not be easy. kevin is aware that any legislation he would like to pass out of this house will require support and endorsements from the freedom caucus. this is where i believe we can hold the speaker accountable. kevin has mid changes to the house rules at the request of all members. one of those rules changes was the motion to vacate the chair which nancy pelosi removed four years ago to avoid the scrutiny

and the accountability. the motion to vacate the chair that has not been offered for a floor vote in over 100 years calls for the removal of the speaker of the house. kevin has reinstated the motion to vacate the chair which i believe was the right thing to do. this motion allows us, the republicans in the house to hold the speaker to account. the american people gave us, my friends, us. the republicans the majority, and their vote of confidence to change the direction of our country. the american people are begging for leadership because the biden administration certainly has not placed the american people first. kevin mccarthy understands. he understands he must protect

that speaker's gavel and abide the will of the american people. the decisions we make in the 118th congress are critical to our country. the legislation we pass must have the support of the american people. we have a crisis on every corner in america, and the american people are expecting republicans to bring this much needed change. we must come together today and implement that change. to those of you outside of washington that are watching, kevin mccarthy and this republican majority understand your pain. we understand your pain. we feel it. we understand we must secure our southern border. we must unleash our energy

sector and become energy independent. we must curb inflation by reducire rereduce spending, and we must support our law enforcement officers, folks. we've got to get crime under control. we must place america and its people first. [ applause ] and all this -- and all this, my friends on the republican side, all this, we can do this all while holding the biden administration accountable, and the washington bureaucrats who have infringed -- who have infringed and abused the rights of the american people and their families long enough. under speaker mccarthy, they will be held accountable. they will be held accountable.

so today, let's do what's in the best interest of the american people. let's get to work. let's elect kevin mccarthy as speaker of the house, and at the direction of the republican conference, i advance the name of kevin mccarthy as the next speaker of the house for the 118th congress. [ applause ] >> for what purpose does the gentleman from california rise? >> madam clerk, i rise today to nominate hakeem jeffries for speaker of the house. >> the gentleman is recognized. [ applause ] >> vote after vote, democrats stand united and ready to get to work on behalf of the american

people under the leadership of hakeem jeffries. vote after vote, nomination after nomination, democrats are united just like we were united when we passed the american rescue plan to get our economy back on track. united when we passed the infrastructure law to rebuild america, united when we capped insulin at $35, passed safety gun legislation, and passed the act to help our nation's veterans. united when democrats passed the chips and science act to bring manufacturing back to america, united when democrats passed the inflation reduction act to reduce our deficit and protect our environment. democrats are unified to tackle the climate crisis, while republicans are mired in their own leadership crisis. madam clerk, house democrats are

ready, willing, and able to get to work for the american people. we will do so under leadership of hakeem jeffries who has a plan for the american people. therefore, as vice chair of the democratic caucus, i'm directing the vote of our caucus to present to the election for speaker of the house of representatives for the 118th congress, represent-elect from the state of new york, hakeem jeffries. [ applause ] >> for what purpose does the gentleman from montana rise? >> thank you very much, madam clerk. i would like to nominate the name of byron donalds to speaker of the house of representatives. >> the gentleman is recognized. >> let me begin by stating that it is an absolute privilege to

be here standing and serving with each and every one of you. i know we have differences of opinions, and i know we have differences of agendas that we would like to pursue, but i will tell you that we all are representing the united states of america in the best fashion that i know that we truly believe in. so thank you, and it is a privilege. when i walk out every evening from the office building, i will tell you that as i look back on the capitol with the lights gleaming upon it that i recognize the honor, the privilege, and the responsibility that each one of us has taken on to be in this place that we are right now, and the b toobligations that we hav the districts that we represent back home. it is an incredible privilege, but it is also an incredible

responsibility, and i do not take it lightly and i know that no one in this room does. we are participating in a system that has endured 247 years through drought and through flood, through world wars and through a civil war, and some way we return to this place year after year to serve the people of the united states of america. but unfortunately, over the past 15 years, the process that we use has been dramatically broken. the voices that were sent here to equally -- to equally represent each of the 435 districts across this nation

have become diminished. this through the con solidation of power into the hands of the speaker and a fortunate few who happen to serve on the rules committee which control every aspect of legislation that travels through this body, the debate and the discussion has been all but eliminated, and the balance of us are left to vote yes or no. those are our options, and that is what has led to the disintegration of the relationships that we see across this floor. that is not equal

representation, which is ga guaranteed by our constitution and expected by our constituents. we have had more discussions and debate over the last three days than i have participated in on this floor for the last two years. [ applause ] and it's healthy. it absolutely promotes the collegiality that everyone is striving to obtain. we're having discussions not just within our own party, but amongst each other as we walk around and start planning for the legislation that we will need to address over the next two years in the 118th congress that sooner or later, yes. sooner or later, we will begin to function as. those are the good days, and

guess what? our constituents think as they watch us on cspan today, that this is how every day functions. they think that this is how every bill gets addressed in this body, and they will be shocked to learn the ones that you have not disclosed the little nasty secret to, that unfortunately that's not how it works around this place, that under the current rules and under the current leadership construction, that on days, typically monday at the beginning of the week, the leadership on both sides of the aisle negotiate a number of bills, 15 to 20 pieces of legislation that one democrat and one republican stand on this

floor. they discuss momentarily, and then they say the magic words. without objection, we will pass this by unanimous consent, and there are two people standing on the floor passing pieces of legislation that oftentimes are the naming of buildings that don't really bother anybody or affect one's life, but in many circumstances, spend millions and tens of millions of dollars that the taxpayers are obligated to cover, and their representative was not even here to vote upon it, and that, my friends, is wrong. it is wrong. so yes.

we need to have change. we need to fix this broken system. several of us have taken it upon ourselves to fly in and object to those very bills, not because we are objecting to the bill, but just to force them to be brought out into the daylight so that everyone can hear about those bills, to force people to come out and vote up or down for those bills as their constituents believe that they are doing right now. that's just one of the little secrets, and it demonstrates again, how broken this system is. last summer, we began to negotiate a group of us in good faith, a list of changes,

amendments to the rules of this body. not to empower ourselves, not to bring personal benefit to ourselves, but to empower you, and you, and you, maxine, and you, and you, and everyone sitting in this chamber equally. there's no rules. i did not use anyone's name. everyone should be -- excuse me. maxine. >> member, direct your remarks to the chair, please. >> i will, madam chair. thank you. thank you. that is so that everyone will have equal representation. equal representation for the districts that elected them. these are not radical deviations

from the norm. these are a restoration of the rules so that this place can function properly. things like single subject legislation that most statehouses utilize right now so, that we don't have 4,000-page documents that we're given a matter of hours to review that are filled with many, many subject matters that are trillions of dollars in cost. rules like germainness so that you can actually bring an amendment forward on the floor as long as it pertains to the bill that was originally being addressed. an open rule process, again, so that each individual here can participate in the thing that we were sent here to do, to help

collaborate and create legislation and work together. that is what we were sent here to do. these are common sense amen amendments that will restore the process and give each of us an equal voice. this is ohio we're going to secure the border, that earverye now, i do believe has recognized that there is a problem with. this is how we are going to regain energy dominance again, which is not just an economic issue. it is a national security issue. this is how we are going to reduce the inflation rate, by working together, but we cannot call it working together if you see acede all of that power to the hands of a few.

hoping for this change will not create this change, and change, we understand that, but it is not unachievable, and we must make change in this broken system. we must. [ applause ] the current leadership that is in place will continue, and support the use of earmarks in this body, and that is gthe golden trail to corruption. the golden trail to corruption. sit a way to buy votes and spread money around this body from places outside of this city that leads to bad legislation and bad decisions.

the current leadership i was told, i should not be so concerned with these suspension bills that get passed every week because now they have made an amendment. we keep hearing about these amendments and the concessions that were made. the concession was that they will not ask for anything to be suspended that costs more than $100 million. now, i don't know about the neighborhoods that you live in, but the neighborhood that i live in, $100 million is a lot of money, and my constituents expect me to vote upon $100 million bills and $80 million bills and $10 million bills so that they know what in the world is in them and what is going on, and they do not expect them to be passed by unanimous consent with no one on the floor.

i made a living developing properties, and as many of you probably know, it takes awhile to take a piece of ground from bare earth to a community, and my mother, god rest her soul, came out to one of my projects and i had just opened it up, and it had been two years since the time i bought the property, and by the time we went out, i had a nice entrance built, and the streets were built, and the street lights were there, and they were just starting to build homes, and she said, my go goodness, matthew, you must really, really be pleased to finally see your project coming up out of the ground. i said, no, mom. actually, i'm pleased that

everyone else can see it. because i sold it two years ago when i first walked out of there. while i have a vision for this place that we can restore regular order so that each of us may have the ability to represent our districts and our constituents equally as we move through this process. then again at that time, we will be able to call it truly the people's house again. i have been here just two years, and i have watched byron donalds during that time and previously as he proudly served in the florida legislature, and i can tell you this. he's a man of intellect. he is a man of integrity, and he is a man that i am proud to

nominate as the next speaker of the house of representatives. [ applause ] >> the reading clerk will call the roll. for what purpose does the gentlewoman from colorado rise? >> madam clerk, i rise to nominate hearn as speaker of the house. >> the gentlewoman is recognized. >> thank you, madam clerk. we have been accused of not having a plan. we've presented many, many plans and are even presenting two plans sigh multaneously right n for speaker of the people's house. i sat in my chair anticipating to vote for byron donalds whom i respect, whom i see as a leader, and there was a gut check that

said, we need someone that is going to convince my colleagues on this side of the aisle that it's time to get going. it's time to build momentum. many of you have said it. you see that kevin mccarthy does not have the votes. you are understanding that he is not going to get there. we have the votes for him. i can not produce those anymore. the colleagues i brought with me to offer those 218 votes on the first ballot aren't there anymore. it is not happening, and as it's been said, with e need to get t point where we start evaluating what life after kevin mccarthy looks like. america doesn't want more talk, and i'm going to keep my speech a little short. they want action. i'll take that. i want to get to work too.

america is tired of rhetoric, and they want results. this isn't chaos. this is a constitutional republic at work. i'm a mom of four boys. i know what chaos and dysfunction looks like. this is actually a really beautiful thing, to be here with all of my colleagues debating just as the gentleman from montana said. we have not experienced this in the two years that we have served here in washington, d.c. this is the most debate that has taken place, and i love it. i love the conversations that are going on on the floor, in the cloak room, in the halls. there's nothing extreme. there's nothing unreasonable. we're trying to get this right. as my conservative colleagues and i have stated time and time again, congress is broken, and fundamentally needs change. i'm here to get this right.

we need a leader that is not of the broken system. someone who is in the beholden to the lobbyists, but the people who sent us here, someone who can unite our parties, and most importantly, someone who can deliver on the promises that we have all made to the american people. i believe that there are many people on the floor today that can do just that. i have voted for my friend jim jordan. i have voted for my friend, byron donalds. i'm voting for kevin hearn, the gentleman from oklahoma. mr. hearn went from rags to riches, and like myself and many other members, is a small business owner. he has lived the american dream. he's a father, a family man, and as kevin likes to say, he's a conservative, but he's not mad

about it. we could have a happy warrior leading us. i understand that threats have been made about committee assignments that you won't receive committee assignments if you do not vote for kevin mccarthy. that is true. it happened in conference, and that is exactly what we were told. we don't govern in fear. we govern for the people on principle. don't be afraid to do the right thing. i believe that kevin hern is a unifier. he just received the chairman of the republican committee. this is the large et st caucus our conference. look how many people have put their trust in kevin hern to lead them. i could ask my constituents, where does this go? who can unify the party?

who can deliver results? represent kevin hern can do just that, and i am proud to enter his name into the nomination, and i hope that some of you join me. thank you, and i yield back. [ applause ] >> the reading clerk will call the roll. >> all right. we are about to watch history being made. kevin mccarthy running for speaker a ninth time. this is the ninth ballot. if he wins on this vote, which i do not think he will, he will tie the multiple ballot vote of 100 years ago in 1923, but we do not anticipate that he's going to win in this ballot on this ninth ballot, and, in fact,

instead of the opposition to mccarthy consolidating around one alternative, they are getting more and more fractured. we actually have four names being thrown out there. the democrat hakeem jeffries who will be in all likelihood the vote leader once again. there are now two official not kevin mccarthys whose names have been thrown out, and byron donalds and kevin hern, he's the head of the republican study group, a group of conservative lawmakers, and dana bash, i don't anticipate that this is going to be any different than the eighth vote or the seventh vote or the sixth vote, except of course, kevin mccarthy will break the record set 100 years ago after nine consecutive votes before a speaker was elected. >> i texted a republican lawmaker voting who is somebody who was for kevin mccarthy. i said, at what point does this get to the definition of

insanity, doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result? the answer was, we're there. this is officially insanity, but, you know, we understandably have been focused on these 20, and seeing if they're going to move. i just also got a text from somebody who's part of the new prop of republicans, one of whom is -- a lot of these republicans in more moderate areas are in biden-won districts. they're trying to dig in and make the point that they don't want to vote for anybody except kevin mccarthy, and they will not do that, and so you have these entrenched camps, even though these guys, the 20 are getting the most play, there are others who are just as entrenched right now in the republican caucus. >> it's so dug in. i will say i've started to get notes from sources about this

extending for not just days, but maybe weeks, you know, people who previously thought, oh, the pressure will boil over, come to a head, and the next day or two, and it just seems like everyone is just kind of settling in for instead of a consensus for maybe like a staeve scalise, this wil continue indefinitely. >> one of the reasons that i think this is happening other than kevin mccarthy's determination is the rebels have shown no inclination that they would be willing to vote for steve scalise or elise stefanik or any other more mainstream, quote, unquote, republican. >> i don't know. it was said there's a whole range of other people we could get to yes on. it doesn't appear they can get to a yes on kevin. >> he's speaking for the 201 pro-mccarthy people. i'm talking about the 20 rebel. >> he knows the rebels well. he's in the house freedom caucus. he said the other day, these are

my friends who are voting no against mccarthy. he tried to get them to vote yes, and so i think that's the question. it's the 20 versus the 200, ands who going to hold out longer, and the 20 seem like they have a lot of momentum behind them right now. they feel like they have a lot of momentum right now. if you talk to them, and the bottom line is they don't trust kevin mccarthy, and when does that become a consensus view? they start looking for someone else openly. >> to jake's point, we know why steve scalise doesn't want his name put forward. that would look disloyal. you know, it's not that he's not ambitious or wouldn't want it, but kevin has to step aside firs first. that said, i think it's interesting that the 20 have not actually gone in that direction yet. they could nominate scalise. they could just throw it out there as a possibility. i will say a republican member told me this morning that kevin

thinks if his numbers improve, and we haven't seen that, right? we have not seen that today, but if they improved even a little, that he can break the block, but that hasn't happened, and the last time the person texted i said, you know, we're starting a pool. when does this end? the source said, monday at the earliest. >> monday at the earliest? >> monday at the earliest. >> earlier we were talking during the break about how long can this last, and how can kevin mccarthy learn the lessons from the debt ceiling fight, and how long can you hold out? we looked it up, and how long was the longest fight? >> 35 days, government shutdown under donald trump. >> if you will shut down the whole government, i don't understand why you wouldn't shut down kevin mccarthy. the stakes are lower. >> these people have voted to shut down the government before. erin burnett? erin?

>> can you hear me? >> sorry. there was an audio problem. >> all right. got it. there was a commotion, and got it. i hear her. so scott jennings, when you hear, you know, jake talk about this possible split, and you have kevin hern nominated as well as byron donalds. you have a theory on what this means. lay it out. >> it's the first time we've seen today, the out group go in two different directions. huh donalds -- the 20, donalds and hern, and i'm wondering at the end of this ballot -- i'm watching to see who votes for hern here, and are they following boebert? i consider boebert one of the people who will never vote for mccarthy. i'm just -- i'm waiting to see how many people follow her down the hern rabbit hole here as a possible marker for, you know, even if they do cut a deal with chip roy's group, are the people who vote for hern on this one -- >> is this the the number you're never going to get even if you get a

it may be a way for them to say no deal. it's not going to be kevin mccarthy until we have plain b. this is what we're going to continue to do. >> there is a way to get to kevin mccarthy that doesn't go through the group of five or six or whatever it might be. there is a way. i'm not saying it's going to happen. if there is a way, that will require some sort of democratic support some way. >> well, there are several ways. i he mean, one is the idea of reducing the number of votes he needs. >> and just to interrupt, we just hit five nos. so round nine appearing to fail again. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> go ahead. >> but they could try what was described yesterday as a nuclear option which is to go with a plurality or, you know, you could try to put together a coalition of some democrat ic

support to be moderate republican and some understanding of power sharing. that seems unlikely. apparently kevin mccarthy has dismissed that possibility. but, you know, i don't really know. i'm stuck following my buddy scott's crazy theories about trying to read the tea leaves about what's going on here. anyone knows -- i mean there is not like -- there is a plan here that people are -- >> why do you consider that a nuclear option to lower the threshold versus staying here for two months and voting? >> well, i mean, it does -- it is a -- because -- >> ultimately, someone is going to win that vote. and it does put pressure on those who are not voting for kevin mccarthy as to how they want to go. >> but you think if that was announced that the kevin mccarthy team said this is what you plan on doing. we're going to try to whip it.

they may say, they're serious. they're not going away. they might. and you know, they can take out the bug hammer. >> yes. right. i just, you know, you basically -- this is like diffusing a bomb. you have to cut the right wire. >> yeah. you cut the wrong wire, it's all over. so they have to be -- i think that's why they've been reluctant to go down that road. but at some point, i don't think -- >> i'm never walking away. >> not a tenable thing. >> i don't want to use the word strategy here. of i know there isn't one for some. but what are we seeing here? when you see another name being nominated? >> for lack of a better word, strategy? >> great question. i think both sides today went into today hoping to grow their size by one vote. you know, get one more than they've been getting. and so another theory on the overplay here is throwing out another name in an attempt to peel off somebody.

remember, people like hearn but i doubt they'll switch from kevin mccarthy to him. i think the strategy is to get larger. that's not happened yet. the other side has not gotten any larger either. i get the feeling they're in that -- >> so is it a sign of weakness that there is a deal being made that you're seeing a second nomination? >> i would just say that donald is in negotiating the deal. right? i'm not so sure, to scott's point, is hearn now the new -- like the new never kevin vote? byron is trying to negotiate a settlement to this whole thing. why you would vote for byron? >> i think the numbers we're looking at, i think we can all sort of conclude at least at this juncture are meaningless. what is meaningful is what is being said behind closed doors and whether it has the capacity to change these numbers and what's very clear is they haven't reached that point yet. >> but to scott's point, i think it's interesting. it may be interesting to watch the hearn number.

we know byron is negotiating. right? and presumably in good faith. so we'll see if byron is going to say at some point i'm taking five votes and going with me, i -- or 20 votes. >> right. >> my feeling is the more this thing rolls on, the harder it's going to be for everybody because i just, you know, i don't know who is paying attention. but this is beginning to become a dreary, dreary march here. >> it's very hard. on a human level. after you get to a certain point to move. right? it becomes not about strategy and what's right. human psychology. so does kevin mccarthy have more than nine lives? ninth ballot for the speaker happening right now for a ninth time headed to an impasse. there is already enough votes against him to have it appear that he is going to fail. we'll see. our special coverage continues right after this. i think i changed my mind about these glasses.

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