way that would help kevin mccarthy given what you're saying? >> no. i would certainly defer to hakeem jeffries in terms of any negotiation directly with kevin mccarthy. but he could have come to hakeem jeffries. just like john boehner came to nancy pelosi to save this country in the financial crisis. he could have come to hakeem. he has chosen instead to deal with the far right and make concession after concession. and that should be -- i get right now it's a republican mess. but, look, it's going to be a mess for the united states of america if we have a speaker of the house beholden to the farthest right. >> all right. congressman ro khanna, i appreciate your time. always appreciate speaking to you. >> thank you. >> good night, sir. and thanks so much to all of you. waiting for this vote. going to find out, adjourn or not. a crucial test for kevin mccarthy in our special coverage of that vote and the vote for speaker continues now with "ac 360." ♪

and good evening, along with jake tapper in washington, d.c. we are watching the house of representatives' longest running drama since the civil war era. republicans failing time and time again, 11 times so far to elect kevin mccarthy speaker. >> 11 times. the latest vote, not only on that, merely on whether to adjourn and end kevin mccarthy's rolling humiliation for this evening. >> manu raju has new reporting on the state of play tonight. he joins us from the capitol. m manu, if they adjourn for the evening, what happens then? >> then the negotiations will continue. actually, the motion to adjourn is a good sign for kevin mccarthy, who has had one bad result after another. 11 straight times being rejected, not being able to get a majority of the house to elect a speaker, paralyzing this institution, the start of the 118th congress. that is the first order of

business. if they can't elect a speaker, then they can adjourn. that's really the only two options. but the majority of the house to adjourn. they wanted to adjourn. kevin mccarthy today all day long has wanted to adjourn this house in order to allow for negotiations to happen. but democrats didn't want to allow him to do that. they wanted to see him fail time and time again. and some republicans, those holdouts would not give him the votes either. so as a result, mccarthy has had to go through this experience and seeing him lose time and time again. but behind the scenes, there have been curious negotiations happening to try to come sort of resolution between a handful of mccarthy detractors and mccarthy allies, try to give things that the members of the far right house freedom caucus in particular have demand, to give them more leverage over the speakership, to give them more sway over the legislative process. those negotiations have happened from last night but beyond and through the course of the day. and behind closed doors, kevin mccarthy with a number of key negotiators, key holdouts on

both sides. i spoke to several of them. they all are sounding very positive that they are coming to some sort of resolution. they say one of them, patrick mchenry, very close to kevin mccarthy, said they have moved closer than they have been over the last couple days. they have been talking a lot about how to implement what they say a conservative agenda, the process for doing that. that has been the nature of a lot of the discussions today. but they believe they can get there, which is why they are having this vote to adjourn right now. because those conservative holdouts appear likely to give them the votes to finally adjourn the house for the day, to get to tomorrow in order to negotiate through the night tonight into tomorrow to see if mccarthy can finally get the votes. but anderson, mccarthy almost certainly will not get the votes tomorrow because several of his members, at least four are leaving town for certain issues. so he is going to fall short under 218, which means this is very likely this gets pushed into next week. >> manu, just in terms of what we're look ing at on the screen

just a couple of minutes remaining. these are republicans, democrats, independents voting. it's a simple majority needed to adjourn, correct? >> that is correct. it's a simple majority of those who are present and voting. and there are five who are not voting. right now republicans have 216 votes, 212. there are five republicans who have not showed up, presuming that two of them do show up and give them the votes that should be enough to call it. but if the clerk here comes down with the gavel now, there is probably enough given the no votes here to get to adjourn. they would not be having this vote, the republican leadership, if they didn't think they were going to have the votes to adjourn. you can assure this is almost certainly going the pass here. but still, it does not mean, even if they get this deal, it does not mean that kevin mccarthy has 218 votes. >> yes. >> in fact, he will have more work to do. there are other holdouts who have not been party to this negotiation who have other issues kevin mccarthy will have to resolve. so that is why we're looking at several more days potentially of this to see if mccarthy can

finally get there, anderson. >> manu raju, appreciate it. let's go back to jake. >> joining us now indiana republican congresswoman victoria sparks who has been voting present for the last two days. she did so again tonight. congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us. you voted for kevin mccarthy in the first three votes, but then for the last eight you voted present. you told me that you were voting present yesterday because you wanted to see negotiations happen. and you were trying to take a step back and give the rebels and the mccarthy forces time to negotiate. it sounds like the mccarthy people have been making offer and offer and mccarthy has been acquiescing on issue after issue. why are you still voting present? >> well, i think it's important for us to have this conversation, because i think we do have a responsibility to

elect a speaker, but we have to tornado watch talk to each other. i believe we're making progress. it's very good to have progress. and honestly, you know, we need to come together. because we have to govern in republicans, and we have to make our differences known to each other. so if kevin is able to get us, it's great. if not, we can come back as a conference and have this discussion. i think it's important. and i truly believe we have some positive movement in having these talks, and we will come up with a speaker. >> are you open at all to voting for someone else, perhaps the number two house republican steve scalise for speaker if -- if mccarthy were to withdraw his name from consideration? >> so i'll be personal to tell you something. i am not worried about the constitutional processes. i think a lot of good things happen as a part of these talks. we do not want to be a

dictatorship. each of us represent an equal amount of people. and we need to have an equal input on issues. i think it's actually beneficial for democrats to reform this institution. i'm note worried about it as much. honestly, i don't mind. we can put all the names and let god decide and just pick a person. it's not about the person, it's about this institution and to start governing. and i think that is better right. >> let me interrupt for one second. i apologize, congresswoman, but the clerk just gavelled down and the vote is over. and the yeas have it. there will be -- the motion to adjourn will pass by 219 to 213. so the house will adjourn until tomorrow at noon. let's listen. in. >> 219. the nays are 213. the motion is adopted. accordingly, the house stands adjourned until noon tomorrow. >> all right. i apologize, congresswoman. i just wanted to bring that news

as it was happening. so you are going to adjourn until noon tomorrow. so it won't keep you too much later. but what concessions are there left for kevin mccarthy to give? already i have heard from several members of congress about the fact that it is going to be so difficult to legislate whoever the speaker is because mccarthy has given on so many items for must-pass bills such as funding the government or raising the debt ceiling. congress is likely going to be in a position where democrats, the 212 democrats go to sign a discharge petition and then six or seven, whatever responsible republicans will do so as well to force must-pass bills on to the floor of the house because the concessions kevin mccarthy has made is going to make it so must-pass bills are going to be blocked in committee, because so much power is being given to

these rebels. it already -- it doesn't seem like he has much to give beyond that. >> i don't want to comment on details because i haven't seen what was discussed. i think it would be good for us to hear what is discussed. before anyone will make final decisions, we'll hear this in conference. but legislative process should never be easy. votes should never be easy. we shouldn't be producing legislation without debate and looking into things. it shouldn't be force everyone to vote. this is not how legislative process work. open process is tough, but that's what we came here to do. and we have to be able to do it. i think it's important for us to get back to business so we have a executive branches and a lot of other important issues. but people shouldn't be afraid to take votes and then make people know where they stand on the issue. it's not a bad thing, but i don't want to comment on any specific rules because i haven't seen them and it wouldn't be informed commentaries that i could make. >> no, i hear you.

but i guess what i'm saying is what i'm hearing from house republicans and allies of kevin mccarthy is that they feel like all these rule changes are making it so that it's gone beyond democratizing and liberalizing the voting process and the legislative process and the amendment process. and it has gone into a place where there will be the tyranny of the minority, where these rebels will be able to force votes quickly on whether or not to get rid of a speaker or to prevent legislation that can pass the house of representatives from even coming up for a vote. that's how much. that's the fears that i'm hearing from your house republican colleagues that that is the territory we're entering. >> well, i think we should make a judgment before we see that. and honestly, before we deliberate and discuss as a conference any of the rule changes, no one is going to come to a decision. so all sides will be able to

deliberate and address issues and concerns before any changes are made. so i don't worry about that. and addressing legitimate concerns like that, we're going to have to hear how it's going to be addressed. but i don't worry about that right now. i just want to make sure that we're talking to each other and we are having the discussions. because it's important as part of resolutions. it's important for us to talk to each other. a lot of people have different opinions. but only the people in the room really know what's happening. and until they come to a consensus and everyone else see what's happening, it's going to be a transparent process. no one will force the rules on anyone. we have to address it as a group of people. >> one last question before you go, congresswoman, because you have a unique perspective as the only ukrainian born member of congress. i've heard some of your republican colleagues to me and to others talking about how this chaotic process is helping authoritarians make the argument that democracy so messy and

complicated, it's dysfunctional. that autocracy, that this is all proving autocracy is a better way to go. i know you disagree with that. i disagree with it. but as somebody who has grown up in eastern europe, do you think that that is true, that this messiness is making it easier for dictators to make the argument that democracy is not worth the effort? >> well, i can tell you one thing. democracy is never easy. this process is hard. they meant to be hard. but i would never accept changes for anything else. if you live under dictatorship, if you live under tyranny, you mow what it means to have freedoms. and that's why the ukrainian people are now dying for freedoms and don't want to go back to that. sometimes we have to really learn from some lessons and really remember how many people died for our freedoms. so we're going to be fighting for our republic. and i think part of deliberation, it is to have this discussion. so i think healthy better have

it now than later. and i think we will come up with a speaker and we'll start governing, i promise you. >> congresswoman spartz, it's always good to see you. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> with me here, minus only groundhog day's audie cornish and dana bash and kasie hunt and jamie gangel and david chalian. thank you one and all for being here. jamie? >> yeah? >> i don't know what you were hearing, but i am starting to hear from kevin mccarthy allies a note of resignation and defeat. not that mccarthy is there, but an acknowledgment in what they are saying along the lines of, well, this is going to be really i have to for whoever the next speaker is. >> we have heard this in bits and pieces along the way. they'll say we're for kevin mccarthy, and then the magic word, "but." everybody has been prepared that this simply may not work out. i'm hearing something else from

kevin mccarthy allies, and maybe some people who are not strong allies, but people who have been voting for them. and i call it concession regret, which is something the congresswoman just told you, jake, she doesn't know what's being promised away in that room. and there is real concern. we have seen historic dysfunction, at least in the modern era. and there is real concern that the promises that kevin is making to try to get in enough votes to get it down to 4 are going to lead to a disaster down the road. >> a frank question. because you're a former health correspondent, as am i, as are you. what do you think the odds are that i know more about the discharge petition situation about what this next congress is going to look like than more than a element of these republican and house members? >> i don't think a lot of these

house republican -- these new -- no. i mean, yes, you know more than a lot of them do. we all do. >> 212 democrats are going to have to go into a room, sign a discharge petition. six other republicans are going to have to join them to get what's called must-pass legislation on to the floor of the house because of all these concessions. >> yes. look, the bottom line is they are trying to make changes to the house republican process, or to the, excuse me, the functioning of the house process that ultimately could make the entire chamber and perhaps the country ungovernable, depending on the situation. i mean, that is what's going on here. if you listen, i think the way matt gaetz put it in a fox interview was to say well, i'm never voting for him, but in the meantime, we're constructing a straitjacket for kevin mccarthy, which is effectually what's going on. whoever ends up being the speaker here is not going to have any room to move, any room to do anything. and the reality is we don't function without this chamber functioning as a country. now maybe that's the point for

some of these people. but i think it's pretty dangerous. >> i mean, i'm seeing some tweets from people like jason crow talking about national security implications of this. nicole malliotakis, republican from new york talking about the fact that she has constituents who have problems with fraud, identity theft, and the irs is telling them we can't help you because of congress. the ripple effects into people's actual lives, never mind the disbelief that they've elected adults to this place called the house of representatives who can't get their act together even to elect a speaker is growing. and it will continue to audie, haven't heard from any of the potential 2024 republican candidates other than donald trump on this issue? matt gaetz is from florida. why is his governor not talking about this? why are the asa hutchinsons and

the nikki haleys and all the other possible 2024 candidates not saying anything? >> i mean, first of all, it's a lose-lose to touch this with a ten-foot pole. ron desantis, who actually originated out of the house freedom caucus way back when, he actually gave his second term sort of back to florida speech which sounded a lot like a campaign speech, which very much nodded at the dysfunction in washington. it's extremely important for politicians outside of washington to underscore that at any given moment all the time, because that's how you get to ride in and be the savior come election time. david, they like to say look at me, optimism the outsider. you don't want to go near this. there is no incentive to do that. even trump in a way i think is staying as far away from this as he can. >> yeah, i mean, the republican party is a mess right now on everyone's screens. i was advising a 2024 republican presidential candidate, i would say exactly what audie just said, don't touch this with a

ten-foot pole. there is nothing to gain here for you. just be apart from this. because otherwise you become a picture of the mess as we see with the one declared republican presidential candidate donald trump. >> you know, it's interesting too, because what they're setting up here is heading into like let's not forget, we're about to start the presidential election season in earnest. and so this is going to be a problem for the party that is going to extend way beyond just the floor of this house, because imagine, the debt ceiling is supposed to expire in august. let's say they can get someone with that speaker's gavel. that's a huge pressure point, absolutely critical. the statement, the last time something major financial was threatened, i remember seeing you at the capitol actually when t.a.r.p. failed initially, the financial bailout failed. the stock market tanked. you're going to see potential impacts like that just as republicans are potentially

trying to pick a no, mminee. >> they will have to talk about it. >> they will. >> the candidates will have to show an opportunity there for leadership, what you're describing, jake. but for this mess? >> my point is this just extends out for the party. >> yes, it does extend out. but if you think about the people who have real ambition to take donald trump out of what i'm about to say to be president, they're all governors. they can legitimately keep what is happening here in washington at arm's length and say i'm the ceo of my state. i know how to do this. so in some ways, if you talk about the republican electorate, this might provide a nice contrast. >> it's such a fascinating place to be. if you think about a year ago, it was like this idea that the red wave is coming, the red tsunami is coming, the economy is bad, we're going the ride in and fix it. even the dobbs decision, obviously for conservatives, that was a win. and now here we are all the way towards the end of the year. marjorie taylor greene, of all

people, is touting kevin mccarthy. i mean, this is someone who was threatening him going into january, right? and all of the sudden she's like you're irrational. >> trashing lauren boebert. >> yeah, trashing lauren boebert, get it together, and yet it feels like they don't. that's not the picture you want to show the electorate when you're claiming that you just won a mandate of some sort by winning back the house. >> we should note one thing, jake. since tuesday, we've seen kevin mccarthy make zero progress on the house floor in votes. >> the other direction. >> except for this adjournment vote. i know this sounds crazy. but last night there were four republicans who joined with democrats, we fusing to vote for adjournment. not trying to give kevin mccarthy the ability to -- >> make a deal. >> make a deal and get his troops together, what have you. tonight it was apparently just one republican. i don't know which one, i don't know if we've seen that yet, who voted with all the democrats to avoid adjournment. that is an absurd marker for

kevin mccarthy to sort of claim that as a victory. but other than reports of closed door progress, this is the only physical progress we've seen in a vote tally in something he wanted on the house floor since tuesday. >> can i just say a republican member of congress said to me about this, never underestimate when they get hungry. >> so true. >> or sleep or want to go home. >> it's friday. >> so there is a pool going on in the makeup room about how long this is going last. i don't have to ask you what you voted for, but, just looking at the history of this, which i have had time to do on the microfiche that dana has referred to, there are only a few ways in which this kind of thing gets resolved. one of them is changing the rules. that's how they ended the 133 vote, one that lasted two months, and 64 votes, which is

requiring a plurality, instead of a majority. one of them is finding consensus candidate. and one of them is just grinding it out. i'm kind of the belief that this is going to be a grindout. that it's going to go and go and go until somebody blinks. >> how many ballots. go ahead. give it up. what did you say in the pool, jake? snoum. >> >> you missed the pool. >> jake, how many ballots did you guess? >> i said 29. but that's because i kept going back and forth between 39 and 19. and finally i made a compromise. but because i think ultimately, i mean, 29 until they get a speaker. i mean, that's not to say kevin mccarthy is going to last until 29, or that he won't. maybe he will. but i just think they seem very, very dug in, and there seem to be at least five or six house republicans that will never vote for kevin mccarthy. and i can't understand how those five or six are going to change.

or even if it's only five. >> right. >> he can only lose four. i don't know if you voted. >> so i guessed 20. i was a little more optimistic. but everybody i speak to, all the republican members that i'm talking to, they are all saying they don't see the math to get him there. they don't know necessarily who number five or six or seven is of the never kevins, but they believe there are more than four, and they think it's personal, and they don't think anything will change their mind. >> it is possible if there were a candidate like steve scalise, and we'll talk about that next time we come back here, but if there were a candidate like steve scalise, maybe that would be enough. maybe the rebels think we've got our pelt. it's on the wall. let's move forward. but who knows. i don't know. people like lauren boebert have said, anderson, they don't want anybody in house leadership that includes steve scalise. >> the difference between the

new york makeup room and the d.c. makeup room, there is no pool. who knows. by tomorrow there may be. >> the new york has windows. >> that's true too. >> wait, you wear makeup? >> we'll check back in with you guys shortly. let's continue the conversation, david. to the question that jake raised, is there something -- how do those five or the holdouts get -- >> since noon this afternoon, i've been saying the same thing, right? >> it's a whole new audience. don't worry about it. no one will know. >> say it in french. >> those five or six are never going to come along. i think the best you're going to hope for is you get folks to vote president. you close the doors and the caucus, and the pressure of your fellow republicans, they say listen, you don't have to be for us. just don't be against us. you can claim you didn't vote for kevin, and he gets elected with a reduced margin. but with still enough. and he gets to be speaker.

i don't think you're going to get matt gaetz, and i don't think you're going to get lauren boebert, and i'm not sure. there is one were to others that are definitely hard-nosed. i agree with jake. you're going to grind it out. you're not going to get the rule change. and i don't think steve scalise. why would steve scalise want to wade into this mess right now? >> why would anyone? >> he'd say okay, great. congratulations. you're the captain of the "titanic" good luck. >> at some point in the not too distant future, he may have to take the wheel here, because the way the rules -- and we don't really know. nobody has actually seen them. we know it's been reported. be the way it's structures, this is going to be a highly unstable situation. and, you know, kevin mccarthy, if he wins this marathon fight to become speaker ultimately might be one of the shortest lived speakers that we've seen because of the authority that he has handed to his opponents to try and vacate the chair if they don't like what he is doing. >> august, that will be the next

big battle. >> but in the spring, they have to do a budget, right? which then allows them to do the appropriations bills, which they all said they want to do individually, not in a big package. so there are a lot of internal policy debates to come. technically and technically tonight of these 20 holdouts. what has never been clear, are there five never, ever, evers or six or seven or eight? i would submit there is a big difference between five and eight. we've heard a range. if there is five, he can afford to lose four. well, if there is five, every single one of them can lay claim to the title i am the one thing standing between, you know, kevin mccarthy and the speakership. and so it's just the math of it has never been quite clear. when i saw him in the room tonight meeting with all these people, i took that as a god sign. the motion to adjourn passing was a good sign. but i don't know. i guess i'll just take the other side of that argument, david. you put him in a room and ask him to vote present, that's still giving in. and they've been so strident, how do you come down off that

pedestal? >> here's the thing. today we have said mccarthy's argument is we can't let them win. >> yeah. >> but now you can see them saying, now that they've adjourned, we can't win with you, right? and so maybe it's a good sign. but the fundamentals for mccarthy have not shifted. the numbers have not really shifted for him. so it's also possible that's what's going on, if we're going to continue to hypothesize, some of those folks in the middle are starting to come around to the idea we can't win with kevin mccarthy. we've got to find another way forward if we're going to end this thing and not continue to do even more damage to the republican party and to the brand. >> that's not going to be swift an painless either. >> no. >> that's going to require a whole another conclave. it can't be anybody in leadership, right? because that's been the pronouncement of the 20. we're not going to elect anybody in leadership. who is next? and ro khanna put forth some

names. >> i'm sure they'll be looking to him for recommendations! >> but if you start looking at moderates, who knows where we're going to go after that, because it's going to be jump ball. >> i also want to bring in cnn's newest senior political commentator, former illinois republican congressman adam kinzinger. congressman kinzinger, it's good to have you with us. what do you make of this? >> it's a mess. my biggest worry for the country is not really the ballot after ballot. that's just democracy. it's a process. everybody is learning kind of house rules now. it is what is kevin willing to give up. because i think what we're seeing in some of these, we don't even know what a lot of these rule changes are, but for instance, one person to vacate the chair, it's going to create chaos, as we've been talking about. here is the thing. when you talk about the five or six that are never kevins, what's their motivation? so of the 21 that are voting against kevin, a significant

number of those, they really believe -- i would disagree with it, but they believe this is way to get to whatever their end goal is. there are a number of people, particularly these five or six that enjoy being in this position. they relish being the one standing up, being the ones kind of throwing a wrench in this. and that's what i think the concern. if they end up being only five, that's probably for them even a better situation, because they can get more attention. look at matt gaetz, nominating donald trump. and i think i know some of those folks. and i can tell you, they enjoyed being the five and the six people that are going to deny kevin a speakership. it doesn't even have to be because it's kevin. it's because they can be the ones to do it. >> and the idea you might get some of them to at least vote present so this can finally resolve itself. >> i think it's possible if you get to like ballot 50 or 70. but i think by then, i think enough. and that is kind of what we have

to now start watching, which is what you have been discussing is how many folks -- we'll say it's the middle generically, the average number of republican congress is going to be worried about what's being given up. they're going to realize that at this point you're really picking a person over the health of the party, and by extension, the health of the country, and you start floating alternative names. once alternative names start get floated by we call them the regular members of congress for lack of a better term, i think kevin is done at that point. it's the problem with some of these folks that have pledged only kevin. i understand the purpose. it's like hey, we're as committed as you guys are, but you have to have an out, because this could grind on forever. and i don't think kevin can win in the long run. >> david? >> i was going to say, congressman, that assumes the 20, they've been offered something. the toothpaste sought of the tube in this. how do you put it back in now and say congressman, your point is we're going to get somebody else. but the 20, if you're chip roy

and these folks, you're going to say well, wait. >> we cast our chips. >> we just negotiated this. the new person is going to say that was the old guy. not with me. so it becomes a -- >> i think you're completely right. i don't know how -- let's just use scalise as an example. let's say he moves forward and now i want to vacate the chair not to be one person. it's still not likely. i don't want the get people moving around on this. but there is still a possibility, especially as this drags on that you end up coming to this idea of a consensus candidate, an acceptable republican to democrats. the big question, can you get somebody like aoc to vote republican? that's not for me to answer. i think it would be tough for them. and enough republicans like we've seen in some of these state houses, let's have a kind of coalition government. i actually think in the long run that would be good for healing the institution of the house. >> but how likely is something like that? the republicans who would vote

with democrats could pay a big political price for it. >> adam, you would be someone to answer this question. i mean, my feeling is that in this political environment, that is a tough decision for republicans to make and the republican who takes the job to make. i'm with you. i think that would be good for the country. it would be good for the institution. it would be a way of breaking the fever that you've fought to break. but the question is does the politics allow for it, or do you open up the door to civil war in the primaries again. >> well, look. i think if you look historically, the politics doesn't allow for it. but we're in a completely unprecedented moment, at least in our memories, where now, as you have five people keeping kevin mccarthy ultimately from the speakership, you could have five that create a coalition government. put yourself in the mind-set of some of these members of congress. let's say they come from a biden district. let's say they've made a mental

decision that this is their last term. and now they have an opportunity to stand up. it's not going to be a democratic speaker. i think that has to be clear. but an acceptable republican that creates a level playing field, that kind of a speaker could actually create an institution that actually works. so if you put yourself in the mind, you only need five or six people to say it's a historic opportunity to do something to heal this institution. i may not be running again. and even if i am, i think maybe in two years this history will judge it well. >> congressman kinzinger, how many of those people are they? they sound like unicorns. do they exist? >> yeah, they exist. you've heard don bacon, for instance, kind of float this idea. don bacon is a great guy. don bacon represents his district well. he obviously is a military guy. there are people with his kind of, you know, resume sort of there in the house of representatives that i don't think we're there yet. i don't think it's going to

happen tomorrow. but as this thing drags on, particularly as they get concerned with these institutional things. and again, americans have to be thinking what are we giving up for our country so that one single man can become speaker of the house? and i think as that gets into those people's minds, it might trigger something. >> my sense when congressman bacon floated that, it was in part to put pressure on this recalcitrant group to understand that there was a time limit, and if they pushed down this road, that they might end up with a situation like that. but executing it, it just seems difficult to me. you're saying five republicans could join the democrats to elect a speaker? is that your -- >> i think there is any number of ways this could go down. let's say you take fred upton's name has been floated. he is a great guy. i don't know if he is actually interested in doing it. but fred upton, let's say his name is put up. his agreement with the democrats is i'm going to create a level

playing field. and then you get five republicans. it's possible that that's how it could get done. again, i think we have to go through a number of these iterations until people realize it's doing real damage. but i wouldn't rule it out. i think it's a small percentage chance. but i do think, you know, when we were talking about this possibility a month ago, it's certainly more possible now than a month ago. >> hey, adam, it's scott jennings. i have a question about your views on the tolerance of these members of congress. they've gone through a couple of days now. they've adjourned until tomorrow. who is to say anything product sieve going to happen tomorrow. then you go through the weekend, and then we're into next week. at what point do you think fatigue begins to alter the judgment of some of these folks? it's easy to be intransigent today, or it's easy to say i'm all in on some outcome today. but by tuesday or wednesday of next week, i was curious about your views of their stamina for this. >> well, i think for the average member of congress, they're already there. they're ready for this to be done. you know, you had family here.

it's the weekend. there is a lot of pressure there. none of them will tell you on the air. they're not going to come on and say we're just tired. we need to go home. because obviously, you have to put up this we're here to fight front. the question is who is going to give first. if you look at five or six, from what i know of them, i've worked with them, they enjoy being in this moment. they enjoy being in this position. and so fatigue is certainly hitting now. and it's going to get stronger. >> congressman kinzinger, everybody stand by. manu raju just caught up with congressman mccarthy. what he said on this historic night when our special coverage continues. introducing new dockside duos. get an individual-size starter and entrtree for just $15.99. welcome to fun dining.

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with the house adjourned for the evening and 11 formal embarrassing rejections in his attempt to be speaker now under his belt, kevin mccarthy has just weighed in. he spoke with our own manu raju who joins us tonight. >> yeah, we just spoke to kevin mccarthy, talking to him about this historic and unprecedented in modern times speaker vote going to -- failing on 11 straight times. he still is maintaining the position that he will be elected speaker. he says he has no time frame for that. he also defended the concessions that he has made to the far right of his conference. he can pin it. he will not be a weaker speaker because of them, and i asked him

why didn't you get this resolved by the january 3rd when this began. he said they tried to but weren't able to. i asked him whether this would be resolved by tomorrow? he didn't know. >> wrapped up by tomorrow? >> no, no i think we've got progress. we've got a little movement. so we'll see. >> have you had to walk back the threats you'll strip committee assignments. >> i didn't make that. >> mike rogers did. >> well, you're saying i made the threat. let's be very clear. i did not make the threat. and, no members are not going to lose their committee assignments. >> how long do you think this will drag out for at this point? >> i'd love to know. but we're makieieing progress. >> this is the longest since the 1850s. >> well, have i the longest speech on the floor. so apparently i like to make history. >> are you concerned?

you're giving one member the power to oust you if you're the speaker. >> that's the way it's always been except for the last year. i think i'm fine. >> has it cut -- undercut the power of all the other speakers? >> but it was used over john boehner. >> i'm not -- >> since 51850. doesn't that inherently mean you would be a weaker speaker? >> are you concerned that there might be four who will just never vote for you among the republicans? >> no, i think we'll get there. >> do you plan to good to conference -- >> are you worried about losing votes to moderates if you give too much away? >> everybody is involved in it. we've got to get there completely. >> -- >> mr. mccarthy -- >> can i finish his question? thanks. a five seat majority. it's not one side is going to get more than the other. it's the entire conference is going to have to learn how to work together. so it's better that we go through this process right now so we can achieve the things we

want to achieve for the american public. what our commitment was. so if this takes a little longer and it doesn't meet your deadline, that's okay, because it's not -- it's not how you start. it's how you finish. and if we finish well, we'll be very successful. >> do you plan to go conference? >> you've been doing this for two months, though. why weren't these sorted out before january 3rd? >> well, we tried to sort it out. >> do you plan to go to conference? >> thank you for stopping. >> that last part saying we tried to sort it out before january 3rd. so they have been trying this for the past two months, and we are in this position now, even as they've been engaged in furious negotiations, jake, all day long, all afternoon, all night. they still do not have a deal, even though they believe they are getting closer to getting some more republicans support for kevin mccarthy. still won't be enough to get them to 218. but, jake, all signs are pointing to this will not be resolved by tomorrow. it will almost certainly be pushed into next week.

and with kevin mccarthy's path to the speakership will remain as narrow as ever. but as you heard from him there, he still thinks he'll get there. >> one of the things that's interesting, manu, is that this isn't unprecedented entirely. it has gone to multiple ballots before. but the last time it happened was literally 100 years ago. and the last -- there have only been i think five times in history that it's gone beyond 11 ballots. and all five of those times were before the civil war. a number of them right leading up. when this country was more divided than it has ever been until possibly now, although you can make the argument certainly it was much worse back then. but i wonder if this is indicative of these tremendous divisions. back then there were -- this is before the major two-party system. there were democrats, democratic republicans, there were whigs, et cetera, et cetera. the divisions within the

republican party are so vicious right now. >> and they have been building and building for years. really ever since 2010, the start of the tea party movement. and that really saw the more typical middle of the road establishment-minded republicans, business friended republicans be pit up against more a movement conservatives, mr. of the far right conservatives who were ushered into power in the 2010 election. ultimately, leading to the ouster of john boehner as speaker of the house in 2015. that tea party faction, that hard right group that encompasses the house reemd caucus, they're the ones who are threatening to use the power to push for john boehner to be ousted from the speakership, led john boehner to step aside. ultimately leading to paul ryan to become speaker, kevin mccarthy. didn't have the votes to become speaker then. and now it's built up during the trump years to where we're seeing this serious divide between the far right and the more establishment-minded

members of his conference. but jake, that is the real concern for mccarthy going forward after this. because of that concession that he has made, giving one member the power to call for a vote to oust a sitting speaker, he is going to go back to the rules that john boehner had that led to boehner's ouster. you heard him there when i asked about the concern. he said i am not afraid of that. i'm not going to be a weaker speaker. so he has claims he is fine with this. but it could very well mean he could have a short-lived speakership if he even gets there, jake. >> that's exactly right. one of those precivil war multiple ballot speakership deadlocks, the guy that won, jontay lore, he lost the next year. it was a very weak speakership. anderson? >> jake, manu, thank you so much. joining us now is iowa republican marionette meeks.

congresswoman, i appreciate you joining us. are you happy? do you think progress can be made overnight into tomorrow? >> i think the fact that we got 219 votes to adjourn. i know that seems like a farcical thing, but that's a small victory. and yes, i think that we're going to continue this process. but people are seeing the process that typically occurs behind closed doors, and what people used to laughingly refer to and derisively referred to as smoke-filled back rooms, this is happening out in the public's eye. this is part of that process. it's part of the process of the house and they're seeing it happen in live now. and we're going to continue to work threw the process until we have a speaker. >> and yet there are deals being made with members, withholdouts. are you -- you feel like you know all the deals that are being made, what has been given away? and are you concerned about what more may need to be given away by speaker -- mr. mccarthy?

>> each and every time there has been agreed upons so, things that one party wants that this faction of individuals want, those have been conveyed to the rest of the house members, and we've discussed those. as you know we had two very long conferences back in november. then we've also had conference by phone. so this has been relayed to us this give and take. i think what most of us would prefer is that all of us have been done in writing and presented so we could have discussed it all, debated it all and gone through that orderly process that we did during the two conferences that we had at which time we discussed numerous amendments, went through each and every one of them. every member had a chance to get up and speak, to debate them, to relay their concerns, relay what constitutionally had been done before in the past, and whether something was in alignment with the constitution. so that deliberative process is taking place. it is ongoing. and members are being informed

on what's transpiring through that. so it has been a transparent process as we go forward. >> are you concerned at all about what has been negotiated thus far? even as somebody who supports kevin mccarthy to become speaker, are you worried about the power of others to challenge him down the road? >> i'm not concerned about the power to challenge others. we did take a vote on that in the entire conference membership that we thought that the motion to vacate should not be at one. should it be at a larger number. and actually, that we should have consistency across because you have different rules. so many members for a certain type of rule or to do a certain type of motion. and so there should be consistency among the rules in how many members it takes to change something. however, kevin mccarthy met with members. the number was dropped to five. we were -- that was conveyed to us. we as members agreed that this

would be okay. we don't see that it weakened the speakership or kevin mccarthy. and then the number was, as you know, last evening was dropped to one. that was also conveyed to us. so we're all parts of different caucuses that have met with the loader, either the leadership of our caucus or members of the caucus itself that have met with leader mccarthy and have discussed this. and to this point, there are budgetary things that have been put in place or will be put in place into the house conference rules that the majority of us agree with. and we're not concerned with those. i think most importantly is to remember that kevin mccarthy has considered the threats to our nation to be the debt, the border, china, and our educational system. every single person in our conference agrees with that. even the people who are not supporting kevin mccarthy. and most importantly, we were elected because the country felt we were on the wrong track. we feel we're on the wrong

track. those who are not voting for kevin mccarthy feel the country is on the wrong track. we were put in place to put the country on the right track. so, we need to address the border. we need to address the untold numbers of fentanyl coming across the border. i'm a physician, a former director of public health. as you know, last year the cdc said there was 107,000 drug overdoses that led to the death of young people 18 to 45. those young people weren't killed by covid. they were killed by drug overdoses. so, we know we need to address the border. >> but, excuse me for interrupting. but none of that will get done until there is a speaker, and there is no end in sight. at this point, what gives you confidence that at least five or possibly more hard no votes can be moved so that the math goes in favor of mr. mccarthy? >> well, certainly the numbers of nos for mccarthy haven't increased. if you notice, the trend line has stayed the same. we have all stayed very stalwart

in our positions for mccarthy and those not. last evening we had the challenge getting to the numbers to adjourn. tonight we got to 219 to adjourn. we know that there is progress being made. so, i think what's most important is that we are patient. you know, no good thing comes without failure. i can tell you in my life, being the fourth of eight kids, no one in my family ever having gone to college, if i would have given up at the first no, i would have never become a doctor. first one in my family to go to college, first one to get a degree, first one to go to medical school, the only doctor in my family. ooip a member of congress. we know throughout our history, we've had challenges, we've had obstacles. we rise to that occasion. we will get through this. we will have patience. we will have understanding. and we meet those of all the needs in those in the republican caucus to help americans with inflation, helping with the border, helping with the opioid

crisis. >> you've also had an incredible career in the u.s. military service. i appreciate your service. thanks so much for speaking with us. >> thanks so much anderson. so, let's chat about where we are, guys. let's chat about where we are. >> where are we? >> wehere are we? >> we're in washington, d.c. we're in studio d. beyond that, david, i just can't get past the fact that there are all these people working really hard right now. let's assume that most of them are operating in good faith. and they're trying to come to a deal. chip roy, one of the rebels, trying to get a rules package that will, in his view, democratize the process. still, he does not know, i don't think, how many of his fellow rebels will go along with it. and it seems very likely to me that there will, at the end of the day, be at least five who won't. this is the question we saw kevin mccarthy just was asked, as he was walking across the

capitol and the reporters were covering him. did you see? he paused for a moment. i don't know which reporter it was that said, do you -- do you know that there are fewer than five -- or five or more that are going to remain opposed to you? and he stopped, and he thought for a second, and he said, we're going to get there. that was his answer in that moment. but it's not just that chip roy doesn't know how many he can bring over if he signs on the rules package. more importantly, kevin mccarthy doesn't know how many they're going to bring over. i mean, the work today -- and i agree with you. a lot of these folks are working in ernst to try to get to resolution here. but all of that work that happened today, from the mccarthy emissaries to the chip roy bloc of opponents, it seems like it was enough support to get adjournment tonight so the work can continue, not let's get this work done so kevin mccarthy

can get 218 votes and become speaker. this was let's get to a point so we can continue the work without the circus of vote after vote after vote. >> right. and that's my vote because for what? as congressman kinzinger said earlier, is this -- is it really that important for this one guy to be speaker of the house? is there really no one else who could do it? >> i think this is a real question. i asked earlier who would tell kevin mccarthy when it's time to step aside? and nobody could answer that question. dan briggalman suggested it was donald trump. but donald trump only got one vote today. i don't think that's going to do it. >> famous acceptor of election results, donald trump. >> this group is really in a quandary because kevin mccarthy doesn't want to step aside. and he does believe that every day that goes by may be his chances are better, even if he

can't answer the question, can he get five. >> the one thing i think mccarthy said there that's actually very true but is a lesson that i don't know if any of these hardliners are going to learn is that they do, if they want to govern the house of representatives, if they want to assume the power that they've won, they're going to have to figure out how to work together. and he said, you know, we've got to do this now. otherwise we're not going to be able to do anything in the future. better to figure it out now. he also looked to me -- and dana, we were talking about this in the break. this is, i think, the most we've seen kevin mccarthy on camera since this all started. and he looked, to me, like a man pretty isolated, more isolated than normal. stuck in that scrum without staffers or allies or elbowing reporters out of the way. he's in there alone, definitely far from the smiling self we saw show up on tuesday. >> yeah, because the situation with the speaker nominations is

you sit there and let people talk about you. you don't talk about yourself, which is the way it goes. to answer your question about one man, is this really what it's about. i want to go back to what you said a few hours ago, i don't know, nine hours ago. who's counting? it's not about one man. it's about where the republican party is. and, yes, there are people who are in the pro kevin mccarthy camp who are sort of waffling on it. but there are a lot of them who are saying, we're going to stick with him, not necessarily because they love him but because they don't like the other guys. >> anderson? >> jake, thanks very much. our breaking coverage continues on this remarkable night. we also have other important stories for you all ahead. we'll l be right back.

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