told me that on the way in they'll have absences today so it will still extend out for some time. they still have work to do despite the pickup, still concern, still some opponents and not enough for 218 but he's getting closer, anderson. >> manu, we'll check back in with you. david, you talked about yesterday the grinding -- you can hear the wheels turning. >> it's, you know, like the old p pestle. you're grinding it down. no one would go home. we'd stay here and keep voting and voting and i believe the isolation of matt gaetz and good and these other folks who are the outliers, you know, there are going to be a few and that exact number as we talked about earlier still is not exactly known, right? if it's four, five, six, seven, makes a bick difference. four or five -- >> when you talk about the isolation of them, what, it's like high school, nobody talks to them. >> that's what it is. west point they used to call it the silence. no one would talk to you back in the day, you couldn't -- you

were, you know, put in exile. that's what they'll have to get to. you'll have the folks. >> mary miller just -- >> miller. let's wait and see, chip roy and if you have scott perry voting yes, you'll have the serious people will now come over to kevin and then you'll have the kind of the clown show for lack of a better phrase, right? the people who are just -- they're just here for theater, right? if those are the folks still outstanding mccarthy will win. >> that's i think the key point. >> that was mary miller. >> mary miller who had previously been part of the bloc of 20 just flipped her vote. you see this building momentum in terms of flitting the bloc of the 20 who are obstinate against mccarthy. the thing to look at if you don't read the tea leaves of politics every day, the difference if that 20 between the intransigent ones there not in good faith to simply make a

stand and show and frankly burn the house down, and the ones who have principled policy differences where they're really using this moment to negotiate some policy that they care about, some principle they care about and are genuinely acting -- you may laugh at good faith because this is the 12th round of voting but frankly these negotiations could have happened a month ago. >> fund-raising emails sent out -- i'm sure chip roy wasn't sending out fund-raising mames. matt gaetz was. >> a great litmus test. >> there is a par rabble about a rich man who goes to hell and begs for a drop of water on the tongue to assuage his inflammation and, you know, he never got it but kevin mccarthy did today so this shows -- >> this is biblical. >> he's been in hell for the last three days and finally a drop of water. it's not a full cup of water yet, but he's getting closer. this is finally a sign of good faith from the people that have been talking endlessly. it's obviously momentum for mccarthy.

there's still six people who aren't voting for him and clowns or not, their votes count the same on the floor. that really -- the calling out of this group is has been the question and now does the pressure or anything else move matt gaetz and his contention? i don't know the answer yet but at least we -- >> we'll know the names. these are the hold-outs who aren't going, right? before it was a morpheus group. >> who was that? [ applause ] >> let's bring in manu raju again. manu, who was it that just flipped? manu? you're on the air. who was it -- was it norman? >> reporter: yeah. >> norman is a huge get. >> reporter: that was ralph norman. i think you tossed to me. yeah, this is a major surprise, in fact, just before this vote, i talked to ralph norman, i said

are you going to vote for kevin mccarthy in the next ballot. he said he was going to vote for byron donalds and here we are an hour later he is on the floor voting for kevin mccarthy. that is a surprise and another sign that things are shifting in mccarthy's direction. norman was one who had initially been seen as a hard no and became a softer no. he said that even a couple of days ago, i asked him, is there any chance you could vote for kevin mccarthy? he said, he said, no, but miracles happen. that was his words. miracles happen. just a couple of days ago and just an hour ago he said he was voting for byron donalds so it's unclear what happened from an hour ago but he did tell me that he was still reviewing the deal that had been proposed to make a number of changes here and perhaps that he got briefed on it further in the last hour and came to yes, but clearly a positive sign for mccarthy that he got ralph norman's support. >> i think the question is how are miracles made?

we don't know what deals have been cut. most of the members on that floor probably don't know all of the assurances that have been made. we know there will be a rules package and that rules package will leave the speaker much less powerful than the speaker has been. [ applause ] >> that's a big deal. >> there was this talk that ten might go, the ten may go and the question is, you know, you talk about the isolating the others on an island, they may just be island dwellers, man. they may not want to leave. the real question for the country, what exactly was committed and what are the implication skwoos. >> manu, the fact that scott perry switched. what does that tell you. >> reporter: another significant moment here. scott perry is the leader of the house freedom caucus, that far right group, many part of this bloc of 20 members. he has been engaged in these intense negotiations over the last day or so. he's been signaling that, you know, he was not signaling

things were going particularly well yesterday. he was very angry about some of the leaks that came out about we reported about some of the concessions after we reported that news, he was very angry. he said leaks shouldn't happen and suggested that talks were not having in good faith but nevertheless he continued to negotiate. he continued to push for a lot of these changes and these members have been asking for. more leverage, more say in the legislative process to try to get some commitments on how to cut domestic discretionary spending. among those issues were part of this deal that was cut, not officially a final deal but a tentative deal but appears to be enough to get perry. a significant moment for mccarthy. >> just to continue on this point, scott perry, we're now in the anniversary of january 6th, he was one of the members who was most deeply imply indicated in january 6th, in fact, i think and -- i think, you know, his cell phone was confiscated by the fbi. one of the things that

apparently was agreed to is this very robust committee to investigate the fbi, to investigate the cia and so on, so, you know, when you say the serious people have come across -- >> let's listen in. >> rosendale. >> kevin. hern. >> hern. >> so one thing about rosendale, he is from montana, one of the -- there are -- we'll have a senate race in montana. rosendale wants to run and so does ryan zinke. >> chip roy is coming up. we'll listen as well. >> roy. >> kevin mccarthy. [ cheers and applause ] >> yeah, there you go. by the way, chip roy has delivered. there has been talk he had a bloc. this guy has delivered.

>> some of the votes that we just have seen today. >> delivered his people. >> chip roy articulated his -- he was serious about this the entire time. he said these are the things i'd like to see happen. if we get those done i will vote for kevin. >> scott, your point about rosendale is that he's looking for some leverage in that primary and he thinks he can rally the right wing base by being on the island. >> yes, he thinks there's room to run in that flank of the party that is just tear down all leadership and zinke is betting on being someone -- >> a challenge for the republican party. >> well, at some point when you have 200 plus of your colleagues, right, 200 and not 18, 214, 216, a short number and you're holding out here, it's going to get awful lonely. >> discussing scott perry. he just tweeted to explain his vote. we're at a turning point. i have negotiated in good faith with one purpose to restore the

people's house back to its rightful owners. in a good faith effort i voted to restore the people's house by voting for mccarthy. that's a strong statement and articulating where i think some of these 20 are. >> 10 so far votes have flipped to mccarthy. >> so far mccarthy has been good to his word. he is moving in the right direction. at the same tie i want to go back to something david said. the devil is in the details. we don't know at what cost these ten have come over. what does that mean for our country? what does it mean for -- you all talk about people negotiating in good faith. what does it really mean in terms of the power and how they will use that power in a new congress? and, again, i think as we continue to go micro to macro, remember how we started today on the steps of the capitol remembering, honoring those who lost their lives on january 6th, and, you know, the republican party cannot escape the reality -- >> that was self who just

flipped. so that's 11 votes. >> they cannot escape the reality of extremists trying to overthrow our government and here we are on the same day and there is a group of extremists trying to hold hostage the functioning of our government. that is on the republican party. >> david, to your point earlier, it's now 11 votes flipped so we're getting closer to seeing who the hold-outs are. >> and then you kind of retreat, go back and, you know, you kind of take a recess again if they could. that would be ideal, right. get out and plan again for the next wave. >> the flip side of this is in order to get those however many remaining hold-outs, if more deals need to be done do you risk losing other more moderates or at this point is no one going to defect who's already supporting mccarthy because they want to get it done?

>> i think if you've now voted for kevin mccarthy i don't see scott perry going backwards or chip roy going backward. >> no, no. the moderates -- >> i think you're in for a penny, in for a pound. i don't think you'll see them walk away. they want to get on to governing. i think they're reasonable about this. >> is that spartz. >> spartz voted for mccarthy. >> from indiana. >> have we answered the question as to whether or not -- we still have an open question as of this morning, how many of the republican caucus have seen all the details of the deal so in those moderate, have they seen the deal? >> probably a handful. >> i think that's a question for the next round of balloting, right? what are the deals that mccarthy is going to have to make in order to try to whittle away some of the remaining nine. >> what's very clear to me is the deals he's already made, i said yesterday i still believe this today, this group of 20 has already won. they have already won because they have exacted commitments

from mccarthy that will leave him standing there with his gavel and not that much more. >> david, i would say perhaps not, i mean offering amends on t -- amendments are not bad things on the floor of the house. >> having the sort of damocles hanging over the speaker's head threatening to vacate the chair and only one person needs to trigger that, that is what drove john boehner out of the congress. >> this is the dynamics question. today there is an alliance between kevin mccarthy and the most conservative people in his conference. how long does that good will or good faith last? they'll get through the vote but in two weeks? >> we're joined now by congressman kelly armstrong of north dakota who has been a supporter of kevin mccarthy on all 12 ballots. so you were mccarthy before mccarthy was cool, congressman.

how was he able to pick up these 12 votes so far of people not voting for him who just now voted for him. >> i think it's been the same way he's shown his leadership style over the last four years i've been in congress, late last night when there were different groups organizing and meeting and trying to come to terms, speaker-elect mccarthy wasn't even there. he trusted people on both sides of the aisle to sit around a table, do it as long as it takes and come to a conclusion and it shows that there are a lot of people, even people who some of my constituents disagree with on both sides negotiating in good faith for what they think will make this place run better. >> are you at all concerned about what might have been given away in these negotiations? we've heard, look, we don't know for sure right now but there's talk of a $75 billion cut to the defense budget, which some of your more hawkish colleagues and individuals on the house armed services committee have expressed concerns about, is it

possible too many concessions were made here? >> you know, just before i came on we were talking about the motion to vacate and the reality is, i think that is always been what it is -- in some ways it becomes -- it's somebody everybody can rally around but the reality is we have a five-vote majority right now and any five members can go down to the floor and stop a rule. they can stop an approps bill. we don't operate the same way the democrats do. it's not just a hard-line issue. there's not many people that will stand for a 1200-page bill coming off a copy machine at midnight and us voting on it at noon the next day. this is by no means the end, this is just the beginning and i'm sure we will have plenty of opportunities to talk about the slog that is the legislative process in the next two years. >> look, obviously i think and we've been covering it this way the whole time, some of the items that the rebels were pushing for, the 72-hour delay

between introducing legislation and actually voting on the legislation, liberalizing the amendment process, liberalizing the process by which individuals are able to introduce legislation, a lot of that sounds really good, but i'm asking specifically about some items that maybe you wouldn't be on board with. $75 billion cut of the defense budget or -- >> you can ink that without a vote on the floor of the house. there will be processes about how we deal with making sure we never get jammed with an omnibus spending bill again and all of that but you can't really do that. >> what about this -- there was talk and, again, we don't know what was negotiated. but what about this talk of a church committee-style investigation of the fbi and the justice department to be helmed by one of these freedom caucus individuals, whether it is scott perry or someone else? >> i don't know what the terms of that is. i've always been clear and i

think that's part of what i've been engaged in. i'm very, very committed to having that be under the civil liberties, you can do it as a select committee, you can do that but i believe that needs to be under the umbrella of the judiciary committee as someone who served on that committee for two year, knows their staff, knows jim jordan, knows the members there, i think they have the skill set to do that in a meaningful way that shows progress for the american people. so i have been working on that. i am very supportive of that in those circumstances. >> oversight is important, absolutely. it's just a responsible oversight i think you would agree. another question i have, so far it looks as though he will pick up 12 rebels, which is a big achievement for this ballot from the 11th to the 12th. that's a huge achievement and certainly it's momentum. it is not going to be enough votes to make kevin mccarthy speaker of the house on this 12th ballot as far as we can tell, of course, it is still possible depending on the total number of individuals that are voting today. but assuming he does not get to

the magic number of whatever the majority of the current numbers of individuals on the house is right now, is it possible to get these hold-outs? >> is it possible to get rosendale and gaetz and gosar? are they even gettable? >> i think some of them probably aren't. i sent a text saying this is cause for celebration, this is cause for excitement but we haven't won anything yet. nobody spiked the football. keep working with people. keep building those relationships because we have to continue to move forward. >> all right. congressman kelly armstrong. don't be a stranger. we love talking to you. >> thanks for having me. >> what just happened? i saw more applause for anybody. does anybody have a beat? >> we're trying -- >> it wasn't a flip. it's just a mccarthy vote, i'm told. in any case, it is -- we still have a couple outstanding votes. we haven't heard from gosar, we

haven't heard from ogles. we're seeing -- >> they're going back to. >> gosar, here he goes. >> mccarthy. >> mccarthy. [ cheers and applause ] >> gosar went to mccarthy. you saw surprised looks on the faces of individuals. >> you could really see that conversation between gaetz and gosar, gosar almost seemed to be apologizing saying something to the effect, sorry, man, i got to go with kevin. >> i got to get on this train before i'm completely left behind on the platform. >> i want to go back as we look at the numbers as something, john, you were alluding to before which is the absentee. i got a text from a longtime republican house staffer saying that that -- right now is the question, the time when we put that into question when it comes to the threshold he needs. before we were saying it's -- he couldn't afford to lose any more than four. it could be fewer than that now

if the number of total members are fewer. >> right. >> he needs a lower threshold. >> ogles. >> ogles too. >> that's 14 -- >> now there are six. >> so the 20 has switched to 7. >> theoretically. kevin mccarthy for the first time since this process began might actually get more votes than the democratic leader, hakeem jeffries, who has been at 212 but don't know what democrats are not here right now. >> that could be a critical number also. i keep -- i've been asking sources throughout this process and still can't get a hard answer in terms of how many democrats are missing from what's going on right now, but it is -- i think it's worth noting, patrick mchenry told our manu raju that they expect more votes today, so it looks like they'll really try to pressure and squeeze those who are left and just say, hey, this train is

leaving the station, you got to get on board now or never and that is kind of a different conversation than the one we were having here around this table late last night where they were talking about potentially kicking this past the weekend because they just couldn't see an outcome if looks like 431, right? >> yeah. >> i'm told there is one democratic absence, congressman david trone is not here. >> 433. >> that brings the standard down. >> ken buck is gone so 432 although he may be coming back today. >> ralph norman said he was going to plan to vote for diastasis donalds. and john making the point about these negotiations is why they're voting for it now and could flip later since he's losing this vote. >> if the numbers are right and still trying to figure out how many are here as are the clerks, it could be 216 or 217 and i'm

not sure which it will be. >> if we know ken buck is missing and know there's one democrat missing -- >> 431 you add it all together. >> that's 2 -- missing two members from 434? >> that's three people missing. >> three people are missing. >> right, that would mean that the number -- that would mean -- >> congressman trone, a democrat was missing and called his name twice and know congressman buck is missing and -- >> one person not currently voting. >> whether they're there or whether they're out of town or just not available. that we don't know. this could be the first -- >> we don't know if they're republican or democrat. >> this could be the first time kevin mccarthy comes out on top. not enough to win. >> in addition although i don't -- i don't know this is going to be the case and probably kevin mccarthy doesn't either, in addition there could be momentum to go to a 13th ballot and pressure the four who voted for jordan or for those who voted for congressman hern or this could be, okay, let's

vote to adjourn and continue negotiations and come back monday and seal this deal. >> yeah, although that's dangerous. >> the never kevin is in cement. >> this is going to be a call that mccarthy and his team have to make. do we keep plugging along and feel the momentum? you saw paul gosar, some of these individuals, you said, one of the individuals, i forget which one it was, bishop or -- >> bishop andingles. >> who was going to vote for byron donalds. >> ralph norman. >> he told manu an hour ago -- >> for donalds. there is something going on on the floor and this momentum is important when it comes to a -- >> the math right there. they're doing math. >> they're trying to figure out. >> the same math we are. >> i think the other number apart from the denominator we need to look at is the number 7. those -- that's how many never kevins, opponents we have. i just heard from a republican strategist who has worked on the hill for a long time who is not

a fan of kevin mccarthy's and this person is sort of looking at these seven names, thinks that kevin can get three of them at least, maybe a fourth to turn and bring it down. >> that may be all he needs. we're going to squeeze in this quick break. giant surprise today on the house floor, conservative republican rebels changing their votes, we have had a number of -- we have 14 flips from either present or for another never kevin candidate to mccarthy. he has momentum. is he going to continue right now? is he going to take a break? we're going to take a break and be right back. 0,000. so aaron's folks could help hook him up with a new ride. we'll drive you happy at carvana. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uhhhh... here, i'll take that.

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welcome back to cnn live coverage. it took 12 balances but now a break in the republican resistance, mccarthy promised progress. we are seeing it. 14 rebel hold-outs moving from never to eventually kevin for the first time mccarthy netting more votes than hakeem jeffries. we should note mccarthy still on track to fall short of that magic number needed to clinch the speakership. we shall see. it's likely they'll move quickly to another vote. to manu raju on capitol hill. what are you seeing and hearing. >> reporter: there's going to be a real effort to win over those remaining hold-outs. patrick mchenry one of the top deputies of kevin mccarthy told me moments ago they see clear momentum moving in their direction. now they'll focus on those remaining hold-outs and may have support from some of those that flipped. scott perry the lead of the hard right height freedom caucus opposing kevin mccarthy all along but engaged in negotiations over the last day or so to give them more say over the legislative process saying

the deal was inked and said he was comfortable with it and decided to move forward. he just told a group of us just now they plan to lobby and discuss and try to convince some of the members who may be hesitant to support this right now. now, also one very important thing he said that was part of the deal is dealing with raising the national debt limit. he just told a group of us they addressed this issue. this is going to be a major, major flash point in the new congress. they have to avoid a debt default. that will happen sometime this year, maybe the middle part of this year. one thing he said they would not agreed to a clean debt ceiling increase. they need conditions tied to avoid a national debt default which has never happened in american history so that is going to be a huge fight going forward. but from what scott perry told a group of us that was part of this deal that has not yet been publicly released but apparently was reached between a handful of hold-outs and kevin mccarthy. so this deal not just process,

giving them more leverage over the speaker, being able to oust a sitting speaker with one individual doing that, having more members of those hard-right freedom caucus but policy implications dealing with the debt ceiling. big significant issue going forward but for mccarthy right now on the floor they're counting the votes right now. the clerks are making sure that the tally is correct. he's going to likely fall short here but they feel clear momentum. they think they can get there maybe not today but very close, maybe in the next coming days they believe that mccarthy will soon become speaker of the house. >> manu, do you expect them to push for another vote immediately? >> reporter: that was the expectation. when i asked patrick mchenry about that do you expect another vote after this one, he said, i do. that was the expectation going in. now they, of course, need to have all 218 members, 218 votes to adjourn the house. unclear if they would have that and take a break to negotiate further offline. if they don't have 218 to

adjourn they're required to go to another speaker vote and c could see that after this. these negotiations probably are going to happen as these votes wrap up behind the scene in the cloakroom and in office just off the house floor. mccarthy has been occupying it as they try to nail down the final votes and finally claim the speakership, anderson. >> thanks. we'll check back in with you. back in new york, scott perry obviously a big -- as the leader of the freedom caucus, that is a big switch. >> i think scott perry is big, chip roy, some of -- byron donalds, gosar, all of these are big get, norman and i think the difference is now other than you're not going to have kevin mccarthy and his lieutenants going around twisting arms. you'll have these 14 people who just switched twisting the arms of the outliers of the those are the people who will say we did this. we need you to come along and make the argument. scott perry is going to make the

argument. >> you know, the question -- i mean, they didn't come along because they had some sort of enlightenment. they came along because they cut deals. the question is, what additional deals did they have to cut with the remaining and are they subject to cutting deals or are they just more -- but, you know, this thing that manu talked about, the debt ceiling, this has been something that a lot of people have worried about. i was around in 2011 when there was the -- there was a similar effort to try and, you know, tie the debt ceiling to all kinds of concessions, and, you know, it took us to the pest 'tis of what would have been a catastrophe and so, you know, this is why i understand the sort of sport of all of this, but the aftermath is going to be very, very important. >> one of the things that these seven hold-outs have claimed they want is deep investigations

of the biden administration. they are the most interested in getting the investigatory process rolling. what i expect to happen on the floor next is for the clerk to read the tally, them roll into another vote and i think the next nominating speech for mccarthy is going to be given by congressman jamie comer of kentucky's first district. he will be one of the most famous members because he will be the chairman of the house oversight committee and be the tip of the spear an all these investigations. here's what's true. as long as this is going on, that committee doesn't exist and the oversight doesn't exist and the subpoenas don't exist, but because comer is getting up to make a speech here i just think it bears pointing out. if you voted for a republican for the house and are a conservative there's probably 100% chance you want biden to be investigated and the matt gaetz seven are stopping you and i hope jamie comer makes that point in the speech. >> who has been making the point, someone likely to be a

new member if reports are correct, marjorie taylor greene who is on no committees because of her behavior and she wrote today, dems are openly plotting to elect a moderate democrat approved speaker if we don't elect mccarthy. that's what i've been warning about. if that happens you can kiss investigations good-bye. crime family, weaponization and subpoena power good-bye. welcome to the new era. >> did you retweet that? [ laughter ] >> in terms of grinding these people down, i'm just telling you, all these grassroots donor, all these people who knock on doors, the fact that they should now know right now the only thing standing between investigating biden and subpoenaing mayorkass and looking into the border, whatever. >> you're right. do you think last november -- >> 2243241 -- >> we know what happened in november. we all saw what happened. do you think this is what the

broader electorate is hungering for, i can't wait to get the investigations going on? >> no, that's -- >> no, but -- >> i'm making a different point which is there's this narrow thing as to whether kevin mccarthy can piece the votes together to be speaker and then there's this larger thing, what does that mean for the rest of the two years of his tenure? i suspect it will only be two years if it is two years and this is what we can look forward to. >> your point about the debt ceiling, those negotiations are never easy. point to 2011. always a tension between, you know, we continue to spend crazily, right, money we don't have, raise tax, how do we do this? a lot think there are budget deficits running out of control and take it seriously. that's a concern always not just in this congress so i don't know. >> i'm sorry. >> i was going to say i think we have to ask ourselves after what we've seen, the debt ceiling, again, it would be a

catastrophe. you have seven people, we had 20, maybe 10, now 7 who are willing to take us to the brink for three days, there is a very real question that david is putting on the table in terms of what is actually in this deal and we know that there are at least seven people who are perfectly willing to take us to -- david, let me finish, who are perfectly willing to let us go to the very brink of destruction, again, as you said, only for their own gain. >> a lot of people think we are on the brink of destruction and catastrophe with the debt limit spending, runaway spending and continue to raise the debt ceiling. >> they didn't think that during four years of the trump administration. he added more than anybody. >> i'm not arguing. there is a contingent here in america that finds that equally repugnant as raising the debt ceiling. >> how likely is it in the next round assuming that they continue to vote, is there enough time to move some of these seven who remain?

>> there might be. there might be. look, there's seven and it looks like he's going to need to flip at least three. if he can flip three of the seven then he can get it today. looking at who those people are, lauren boebert doesn't seem flipable. matt gaetz not flipable. andy biggs, rosendale, harrison crane maybe. so this is going to be a real test of kevin mccarthy and frankly his ability to enroll his allies in an effort to change some of these hold-outs. >> scott. >> if i were mccarthy's camp right now, i would be making the point on rosendale that all that is standing between us investigating joe biden and all that is stops us from doing that is rosendale. he has a senate race he wants to run in. you don't want to be the one to stop that. >> any moment we expect them to

move to ballot 13. kevin mccarthy can finally claim momentum after flipping 14 republican hold-outs. more cnn special coverage after this.

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opposition. 14 republican rebels folding after four days of pressure and negotiations on ballot number 12. mccarthy still coming up short. not getting the necessary number of votes to become speaker but for the first time in these rounds and rounds and rounds of ballots, it looks as though he will get even more votes than the democratic leader, congressman jeffries so now we try to figure out what exactly is going to happen next and dana bash, i should know, if you look at hakeem jeffries' vote score there, 211, that is one less than he has been getting for all previous votes. this is the 13th -- what is this, the 12th -- that was the 12th. >> yeah. >> okay. so, sorry, i'm losing track. >> that's where we are. >> anyway, the reason that jeffries is at 211 and not 212 is because congressman david trone had to miss it for a

personal matter, but i am now told from a democratic source that he is on his way back. why would he be on his way back? because in the complicated math of having to win a majority of those voting on the floor other than those voting present who do not count, right now kevin mccarthy only needs to pick up three republicans to get the magic number 216 to become speaker, but this democrat tells me and i'm no math expert, but this is what they say, they have people who do this professionally, if david trone comes back, that will mean that kevin mccarthy will not need 216 votes to become speaker, he will need 217. >> the democrats want to keep the threshold higher. >> yes, they want to make it tougher. >> they want to move the bar, exactly, move the bar higher to make it tougher for mccarthy. >> although -- >> the question is, what's happening on the floor right

now? what is happening with -- i think it was david urban who said this and this is just my experience in covering the hill, this is dead on, i mean, look at the conversation you're seeing right now. i don't know how hard they're trying -- >> there's rosendale on the left from montana. >> it is very likely that it is the flippers, today, the 14 flippers who are the ones on the front lines working those who are still hold-outs like rosendale who we're seeing right there in the red tie. i mean, you're seeing -- you're seeing arm twisting in action right there. that moment, that's exactly what we're seeing. that's why the vote is still open, not necessarily because they're waiting for somebody to come home but because the mccarthy camp that includes these 14 newly flipped votes are trying to get him more votes. >> i don't know we're seeing -- respectfully, i don't think we're seeing arm twisting, i

think we're seeing deal-making. >> one in the same. >> legalized bribery part of our american political process. >> at this point i have questions about what else could be put on the table for these individual, but i do think dana has a point. some of the people who flipped today for kevin mccarthy went out there over the last couple of days and gave nominating speeches for someone else and those -- so those people are not just like mccarthy no votes but kind of on the front lines of this effort to dethrone him and so it's incredibly significant that people like paul gosar and chip roy are now in the mccarthy camp and i think it -- their flipping raises the stakes for them. >> exactly. >> they do not want to be on the losing side of this. this has to end with mccarthy as speaker otherwise it all would have been for naught. >> the conversation when we went home last night and even through

the morning was, okay, how are we going to figure out a way to get to next week when this will be done, perhaps these negotiations will extend out. all of a sudden people are saying, how do we make kevin mccarthy the speaker of the house today, friday afternoon? and i don't think that there were -- certainly i was not hearing from a lot of people who thought this was a realistic possibility when we sat down here a couple of hours ago, so if you're the mccarthy team, i mean the political imperative here is to capitalize on this momentum, hang on to it like a dog with a bone and not let go of it until you get to where you need to go. >> i have spoken to republican sources on the hill who are not kevin mccarthy fans, they say the dam has broken. they think -- there are seven hold-outs. they think that he can get three of these and likely will get them by the end of today. >> but then they get four. that's my question because if congressman david trone, democrat of maryland, has come back to the house of

representatives, which i'm told a democratic congressman just told me he had a medical appointment. now he's back and that lifts -- >> they don't need to get four. they only -- there's seven hold-outs, minus three is four. >> no, what i'm -- >> because the denominator is changed. >> if trone comes back and i'm told he's back that means mccarthy needs 217 vote, not 216 and that means he needs to pick up four of these seven rebels. four. >> so one of my sources predicts that there will only be three hold-outs in the end and that will be matt gaetz, boebert and good. >> and the image we were just seeing was of patrick mchenry, one of the top mccarthy lieutenants -- there you see it, the back of his head. he's talking to boebert. there you go. he's talking to matt gaetz. i mean, if he can flip those two, god only knows what he can

offer them. >> those two -- >> i agree. the fact that he's even having that conversation as the vote is open, i mean, look at him. look at -- that is mchenry, right. >> it's not just pat africa -- pat mchenry, crane, rosendale, going after eli crane who maybe could be gettable. >> mccarthy helped get him elected. >> the congressional leadership put a lot of money into ads for him but the conversation is they don't trust him and believe that they are the ones who are standing in the way of this and that that is ultimately their end goal. >> is anybody know how to read lips? >> how have we not hired one already? >> it doesn't have to end with these people necessarily all voting for mccarthy as well. it would be helpful to mccarthy if some of them decided to vote present. >> well, that's why the fact that democrat david trone is coming back after having his --

there was a statement put out saying he had a surgery this morning, i heard from a source who said he had the surgery and came back. we got to confirm that, but, you know, the question then will become there's two republicans currently not here, ken buck and wesley hunt. hunt said in a twitter thread this morning that he returned home because of there were complications to his newly born child in the nicu and his wife was readmitted to the hospital. that said there are a lot of flights back and forth from texas and if the speakership is on the line, i'm sure somebody somewhere has a jet that could bring him and potentially ken buck from colorado back but that, of course, could drag the day way out. >> how many times have we seen votes open for hours? was it -- okay, . >> i'm going to date myself but go there, i think it was medicare, the medicare expansion. >> oh. >> tom delay. >> yeah. >> they kept it open for hours

and hours and hours. >> when time stops on the floor of the us. >> time has officially stopped. >> we're going to squeeze in another quick break and be back with more of this exciting day of coverage. will kevin mccarthy be able to ultimately become speaker of the house, perhaps even by the end of the day? stay with us. ♪ i gotta good feeling about this, yeah ♪ ♪ i'm with it ♪ ♪ i gotta good feeling about this ♪ ♪ yeah, ♪ ♪ so let's get it ♪ ♪ i'm feeling good vibes ♪ you love spending time scrolling through your feed. whoa, check out this blast from the past. oh, what's this? the sofia vergara collection at america's best? wow, amazing styles and unbelievable prices? now that's quite the duo. get two pairs of sofia vergara frames

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welcome back. i'm anderson cooper in new york. you're watching cnn special live coverage, 14 down, 4 to go, momentum, progress, kevin mccarthy finally has some of it. can he wear down the hell no holdouts blocking his bid to become the next speaker of the united states house of representatives. let's listen in. [ applause ]. >> the honorable hakeem jeffries of the state of new york has received 211. [ applause ]

the honorable jim jordan of the state of ohio has received 4. the honorable kevin hern of the state of oklahoma has received 3. no member elect having received a majority of the votes cast, a speaker has not been elected. for what purpose does the gentleman from kentucky rise? >> i rise on behalf of the republican party to nominate kevin mccarthy for speaker of the 118th congress. >> the gentleman is recognizesed. >> for the past two years, one party democrat rule has resulted in multiple crises that are harming americans, without any oversight or accountability from

this body. americans are facing historic inflation, skyrocketing energy costs, the worst water crisis in american history, and surging fentanyl overdoses. one of the reasons is no congressional oversight. there's no sense of urgency or the white house or the bureaucrats that populate this town to move. i want to talk about that. oversight of our tax dollars, that's our responsibility. we've all heard reports of hundreds of millions of dollars of potential waste and fraud in the unemployment insurance programs in all 50 states. we've all heard reports of misuse of hundreds of millions of dollars of the stimulus money, of ppp loan funds, yuts

b but yet there has not been a single hearing in the house oversight committee about this. the border crisis, we've made several trips on this side of the aisle to the border. we've listened to the border patrol agents. their message is loud and clear. under president biden, the border patrol has become the welcoming committee. they're begging for help to do their job. law enforcement officers in all 50 states are begging congress to force this information to secure the border to do something about the fentanyl crisis that plagues every community in every state in our great nation. americans watched in disarray at the debacle in afghanistan and americans were left with many

questions. how much equipment was left behind for the taliban? how many americans were left behind? the origination of covid-19. we all know someone personally who lost their life during covid-19. they deserve answers to what really happened in that lab in wuhan, china. those of us who had kids in the public school system can testify that our kids have lost a year of their education because of the forced virtual learning that so many of our schools put our children through during the covid pandemic. congress ran the debt up, at least $3 trillion,