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edition of ac360. they harry interview, my conversation with prince harry that i did for cbs's 60 minutes. tonight, the interview. and we'll discuss with our correspondents and guests the potential fallout from it. and what harry revealed in his new book, which comes out on tuesday. prince harry may have stepped back from his royal duties in 2020, but he and his wife meghan, the duchess of sussex, certainly haven't stepped away from the spotlight. just last month, they appeared in a six part netflix documentary about their relationship, and their decision to leave the royal life behind. but now, the 30-year-old prince harry is telling his own story in his new memoir, spare, a nod to his backup role in the line of succession. the book is a stunning break with royal protocol. it's deeply personal, and it's an account of prince harry's long struggle with grief after the death of his mother, princess diana, and a revealing look at his fractured relationships with his father, king charles, his stepmother, the queen consort camila, and his brother prince william's, the heir to his father.

>> you're right about a contentious meeting you had with him in 2021. you said, i looked at him, maybe for the first time since we were boys. i took it all in. his family or scalp, which has always been his default in dealings with me, more advanced than my own. hispanics resembling's to mommy, which was fading with time, with age. it's pretty cutting. >> i did say it was getting at all. you know, my brother and i love each other. i love him deeply. and there has been a lot of pain between the two of us especially in the last 60 -- two years. none of anything that i've written, or anything i've included is ever intended to hurt my family. but it does give a full picture of the situation, as we were growing up. and also, it squashes this idea that somehow my wife was the one that destroyed the relationship between the two brothers. >> i think so many people --

[inaudible] inseparable. and yet, and reading the book, you have lived separate lives from the time your mom died, even when you are in the same school, high school -- >> sibling rivalry. >> your brother told you, pretend we don't know each other. >> yes, at the time, it hurt. i couldn't make sense of it. we are in the same school. i haven't seen you for ages, and now, we get to hang out together. >> he is like, no, no, no, in school, we don't know each other. you are absolutely right, it hit the nail on the head. we had a very similar traumatic experience, and then, we dealt with it in two very different ways. >> william tried to talk to you occasionally about your mom, but as a child, you could not, you couldn't respond. >> for me, it was never a case of i don't want to talk about it with you. i just don't know how to. i never ever thought that maybe talking about it with my brother or anybody else at that

point would be therapeutic. >> in august, 1997, harry and william were vacationing in scotland with their father. harry was 12. william, 15. they were asleep in balmoral castle on august 31st, when harry was awakened by his father, and told him his mother had been in a car crash in paris. >> in the book, you write, you says, darling boy, i'm afraid you didn't make it. these phrases remain in my mind like darts on board, that's what you say. did you cry? >> never showed a single tier at that point. i was in shock. you know, a 12 year old, sort of 7:00, 7:30 in the morning, early before your father comes, in boots on the bed, puts his hands on your knee, and tells your mom was in an accident. i couldn't believe. >> and you write in the book that that did not hug me. he wasn't great at showing emotions, but his hand did fall

once more on my knee, and he said it was going to be okay. but after that, nothing was okay for a long time. >> yes, nothing was okay. >> harry says his memories over the next few days are fragmented, but he does remember this, grieving mourners outside kensington palace and london the day before his mother's funeral. >> when you see those videos now, what do you think? >> i think it's bizarre because i see william and me smiling. i remember the guilt. i remember the guilt that i felt -- >> guilt about -- >> the fact that we were meeting, showing more emotion than we were showing, maybe more emotion than we even felt. >> they were crying, but you weren't. >> there were a lot of tears. i talk about how white people's hands were, i couldn't understand them. >> their hands were wet from wiping tears away. i do remember one of the strangest parts to it was taking the flowers from people, and then placing those flowers with the rest of them, as if i

was some sort of middle person for their grief. and that really stood out for me. [bell ringing] >> the funeral, on a cool september morning was watched by as many as two and a half billion people around the world. perhaps, the most indelible image prince harry and his brother, walking behind their mothers gasquet on a twain to westminster abbey. >> what do you remember about that walk? >> how quiet it was. i remember the occasional whaling, screaming from someone. i remember the road, the broyles of the horses, and the gun carriage, the wheels, the occasional gravel stone underneath your shoe. but, mainly, the siren. >> after the service, princess diana's body was brought for burial to her family's ancestral estate. >> once my mother's coffin actually went to the ground, that was the first time that i actually cried. yes, there was never another type. >> all three of you were

teenagers. you can cry before -- you didn't believe she was dead? >> for a long time, i just refused to accept that she was gone. like, she would never do this to us, but also, part of it is, maybe this is all part of a plan. >> he really believed that maybe she had just decided to disappear for a time. >> for a time, and then she would call us, and we can join her. >> how long did you believe that? >> years, many, many years. i even talked about it as well. he had similar thoughts. >> you write in the book, you say, i'd often say to myself first thing in the morning. maybe, this is the day, maybe this is the day that she is gonna reappear. >> yes, hope. i had huge amounts of hope. >> he held on to that hope into adulthood, when harry was 20, he asked to see the police report about the crash that killed his mother, her boyfriend, and the driver on wreak paul, while they were being pursued by paparazzi in a

tunnel in paris. >> why did you want to see photographs of the crash scene? >> maybe proof that she was in the car, proof that she was injured, and prove that the very paparazzi that chased her to the tongue are the ones that were taking photographs, and -- >> you're right i haven't been aware before this moment, talking about looking at the pictures at the crash scene. and the last thing mommies on this earth was a flash bomb. >> yes. >> that's what you saw the pictures? >> well, the pictures showed that reflection of a group of photographers, sending photographs through the window, and the reflection of the window was them. >> he only saw some of the crash photos. his private secretary and advisor, dissuaded him from looking at the rest. >> all i saw was the back of my mom's head slumped on the back seat. there were other more gruesome photographs, but i will be eternally grateful to him for

denying me the ability to inflict pain on myself by saying, no, because that's the kind of stuff that sticks in your mind forever. >> harry says he believed his mother might still be alive until he was 23 and visited paris for the first time. >> you told your driver, i want to go to the tunnel where my mom died. >> i wanted to see whether it was possible driving at this speed that henry paul was driving, that you could lose control of a car and plow into a river killing almost everybody in that car. i need to take this journey. i need to ride the same route -- >> the same tunnel, the same speed. >> all of that. >> your mother was going -- >> william and i have been told the event was like a bicycle chain. if you move one of those chains, the end result would not have happened. and paparazzi was part of that. but, yes, everybody got away with that. >> harry writes, he and his

brother were not satisfied with the results of the 2006 investigation by london's metropolitan police, concluding diana's driver, henry paul, had been drinking, and the crash was, quote, a tragic accident. >> i considered reopening the inquest, because there was so many doubts and so many holes in it. it just did not add up and did not make sense. >> we just like to do that? >> i don't even know if it is an option now. but, no, i think -- what i like to do that now, it's a hard question, anderson. >> do you feel you have the answers that you need to have about what happened to your mom? >> truth to be known, no. i don't think i do. i don't think my brother does either, and neither the world does. do i need any more than i already know? no, i don't think it will change much. >> harry now says it wasn't until he served in combat with a british army in afghanistan that he finally found purpose and a sense of normalcy.

>> my military career saved me, in many regards. >> how so? >> it got me out of the spotlight from the uk press. and i was able to focus on my purpose, a purpose larger than myself, to be wearing the same uniform as everybody else, to feel normal for the first time in my life. i've accomplished some of the biggest challenges i ever had. you only get a -- >> year he doesn't give a crap about who you are? >> there is no -- it just sticks the away. >> i was a really good candidate for the military. >> i was a young man in my twenties, and suffering from shock, and i was now in the front seat of apache shooting at flying, simultaneously, and being there to save and help anybody that was on the ground with the radios, screaming, we need support, we need their support. and that was my colleague. i felt healing from that.

>> in that multitasking, the brain work of that, that felt good to you? >> it felt like i was turning pain into a purpose. i didn't have the awareness at the time that i was living my life in adrenaline. and that was the case from page 12, from the moment that i was told my mom had died. >> you say, the war did not begin in afghanistan, it began in august 1997. >> the war for me, unknowingly, was when my mom died. >> who you flighted? >> myself. i had a huge amount of frustration and blame towards the british press for their part in it. >> even at age 12, at that young, you are feeling that way the british press? >> yes, to us, as kids, the british press is parked in our mother's misery, and we have a lot of anger inside that's luckily, i never expressed it. but i resorted to drinking

heavily because i want to numb the feelings, and i want to describe distract myself from whatever i was thinking. and i was also drawn to drugs, as well. >> harry admits he smoked pot and used cocaine, and writes, in his late twenties, he felt hopeless and lost. >> there was this weight on my chest that i felt for so many years. and i was never able to cry. so, i was ultimately trying to find a way to cry, but even sitting on my sofa, and going over as many memories as i could muster up about my mom, sometimes, i would watch videos online -- >> of your mom? >> of my mom -- >> hoping to cry? >> yeah. >> and you couldn't? >> i couldn't. >> he sought out help from a therapist for the first time seven years ago, and reveals he's also tried more experimental treatments. >> you write in the book about psychedelic's, mushrooms, and other stuff -- >> i would never recommend people do this, recreationally,

but doing it with the right people, if you are suffering from a huge amount of loss, grief, for trauma, and then these things have a way of working as a medicine. >> they showed you something. what did they show you? >> for me, they cleared the windscreen, the windshield, and the misery of loss. they cleared away this idea that i had in my head that my mother, but i needed to quite to prove to my mother that i missed her, we are in fact, all she wanted was for me to be happy. >> we'll continue part two of my interview shortly. but first, joining us right, now cnn royal correspondent max foster, cnn royal historian kate williams, and author and playwright and former deputy chair of the british museum. max, let's start with you. you know, this is a two part interview that we did for 60 minutes. and one of the reasons that we wanted to start with this, with a focus on princess diana and the experience of her death for for harry is reading the book,

and it's 460 pages. i, mean it is, yes, people are going to be seeing the most attention to all the revelations, and you, know the inside information that he's giving out, that break of protocol on the royal family, all the information he's telling about the royal family, which we will show shortly. but, for me, i mean, this is such a memoir about loss, and about grief, and about the devastating impact of childhood trauma, the death of his mom, which played out obviously on a global scale. and it's extraordinary for me how the life that he lived is so different then -- or his perception of himself, or perception of his life is so different than the perception of what his life and his inner life must of been like growing up. i find that sort of dichotomy interesting. >> yes, it's where we all connect with harry, isn't it? that image of him walking behind the coffin. that utter sympathy of that young boy, and how he was so

deeply affected. and as you explore it with him so effectively, this is a historic part of the interview. this was a global event, defining for the uk monarchy. and you see him behind the coffin, and you try to get a sense of what that was like, and you give him that, you show and brought that out. so, it's incredibly powerful. these images are sealed in the world's consciousness. and, then you, you know, you sprawl this part of, you know, he didn't -- he wanted her to be alive. he didn't really believe that she was dead until he saw the photos. and then, he sees the paparazzi around the body. and this is utterly defining, as you explored in the interview, how from that moment on words, he's at war, really, with the media. and it's not just the photographers. it is the news desks, the commission, and also the photographers. >> kate, i am wondering what you thought of this side of harry, how much was new to you?

does it inform at all the way, kind of what is happening now? >> yes, anderson, it was heartbreaking to hear him talk about his mother's death. i was so moved. he said he felt guilty because he could not cry. i remember being out there with the crowds, and everyone was weeping. the tears were falling. you, out there, as a reporter, the grief was cataclysmic, and yet, harry, the one with really almost the greatest, harry and william have the greatest -- he just couldn't cry. he felt so guilty. i was so moved about him talking about his feelings, and how he is speaking out, in harry's book, it really has been three things for me. a very dysfunctional family, their relationships with the press, in this dysfunctional family but most of all, a portrait of a young boy losing his mother and a young age, with very little support from within the family. and also, expecting expected to play this role on the world

stage. and when he said, my war began in 1997, that was, i think, a stunning revelation. and he really went to the heart of why he is still suffering now the loss of his mother, and how much the press had a role in that. >> body, i mean, again, for me, the idea of how little we actually know about the people we think we know and public life, you know, how they see their lives, they're in our life is so completely opposite from what people imagine. >> well, anderson, this family is a little bit more than, you know, celebrities. i mean, they are a constitutional element of this country. the head of the family is the constitutional head of state. his oldest is also the constitution. and the oldest after that is also in the constitution. so, they become much more than a prominent family. and they're actually the fabric of the country. and, you know, i can remember,

i remember when charles and diana brought harry out but on a wing in and hospital the day he was born. and watching the jolly, that red haired boy, always with a smile on his face, until that day, when he was made to walk behind that coffin, which was barbaric. but also, keeping in the tradition of this family, which is more than a family, they are the state. so, that is the issue. i think the british people are going to have to come to grips with that. and i think it's what harry, and what she showed him in that interview, harry's challenging this. and this is really the conflict and the clashes are going to come in the british body of politics. >> it's also interesting, the whole notion of the air and despair, which has been in tabloid headlines, and, fact ryan is obviously a tabloid catnip. prince charles, and i asked this, we did not include it in

the interview, what charles is famously rumor to said to diana after harry's birth, well you know, i've done my job giving you and heir. i've given you and heir and a spare, and my job is done. i asked him if he thought that was a true story, and he said based on the very sources, that he had talked to, or we told him about it, he thought it probably was true. but it also probably meant it as a joke. but that spirit dynamic, it pops up throughout the book and throughout the relationship between prince william and prince harry. we all have this idea that, or at least, if you see a lot of the coverage in the british capital, tabloids since the whole rift, the argument is that meghan was the cause of that. and i don't know what to read that, if tour not. but what harry is saying in his book, and he documents this, from the time diana died, they lived two very separate lives, and dealt with that grief in very separate ways. it's like they were on separate

paths. and part of that is the heir and spare dynamic. >> i mean, what charles said there is the brutal reality, isn't it? this is a monarchy. it's built on hierarchy. and harry surely knows. that by any definition, you know, there are more senior people in the hierarchy. you don't like the hierarchy. you don't like monarchy. and then, harry, of course, as he does believe in the monarchy, i think that's the reality. i mean, williams side would say is that they did everything they could to make harry not feel like a spare. they elevated him, so he grew as a foundation, where they grew together, initially harry and william. and they follow through on many things. william felt that he was elevating what would be a traditional role for a spare. the spare would in the past just be invisible and brought in if needed. so, i think, harry really struggled with that. and then, it was the treatment, of course, from william that he felt he received, as well, always being made to feel like

a spare, and ultimately, when he found meghan, and she wasn't happy with the situation either, they came together and realized they couldn't do this any longer. >> and kate, one of the things that harry talks about is that his, he is being dumped dubbed the spare, and his role as the spare, he felt he was more vulnerable to the british press than others in the royal family. he was essentially expendable, and that particularly comes into play when he is making the argument that other members of the royal families, we'll see in this next part of the interview in particular, the queen consort camilla, he says was essentially throwing him under the bus. he was one of the bodies left in the street, as she had a relationship with the british media. >> yes, i think that is exactly what harry is saying. harry feels he was a scapegoat that many other royals used him to deflect from their own problems, their own and securities. and the bad stories about them, and particularly, just as you say, he talks about kamala.

he said she was seen as a villain, to rehabilitate her image, and the way she did this particularly with by pushing forward negative stories about harry. as a spare, he is expendable. and i thought you brought this out so acutely in the interview, the grief he suffered, the isolation he suffered, but also, as this spare, the title of the book, that very structure, i think even though he says he supports the monarchy, he doesn't blame it for so much of what went wrong. and we have a situation in which one child gets everything and or all the attention, and the other child not only gets nothing, but also, he is sold out to the press, and that is why he was so unhappy, and that is why he felt he had to leave. and i think it really raises questions about the structure of monarchy spare and heir, the european rules don't do it like that. the younger boys have their jobs. they don't expect to be a backup royal. maybe, that's the way we have to go. it's not humane the way that it is at present. >> we have to take a short break, bonnie, kate, max, stay

with us. we're gonna play a part of a tree that did not see last night. we're gonna ask harry about the headline making calm and his wife gave to oprah winfrey, alleging or family member had expressed concerns about what skin color their first baby might be. also ahead, part of the 60 minutes interview. harry doesn't know why he called his stepmother kamila, quote, dangerous. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> you wrote, i even wanted camilla to be happy, maybe should be less dangerous, if she was happy. how we see dangerous? >> because of the need for her to rehabilitate her image. >> that made her dangerous? >> that made her dangerous because of the connections that she was forging within the british press.

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edition of ac360. harry's memoir, spare, is anything but spare, and it's unflattering portraying the royal family, especially his stepmother, and now the queen consort. she married prince charles in 2005, though the two had been romantically involved on and off for decades. when princess diana famously referred to kamala as the third person in her marriage, the british tabloids ran with it, and prince harry has never forgot. >> she was the villain. she was the third person in the marriage. she needed to rehabilitate her image. >> you and your brother both directly asked your dad not to marry camilla. >> yes. >> why? >> we didn't think it was necessary. we thought that it was gonna cause more harm than good. and that if he was now with his, this person, that surely that's

enough. why go that far, when you don't necessarily need to? we wanted him to be happy, and we saw how happy he was with her. so, at the time, it was, okay -- >> you wrote that she started campaigning in the british press to pave the way for a marriage. and you wrote, i even wanted camilla to be happy, maybe she would be less dangerous if she was happy. how is she dangerous? >> because of the need for her to rehabilitate her image. >> that made her dangerous? >> that made her dangerous because of the connections she was forging within the british press, and there was open willingness on both sides to trade information. and with a family built on a hierarchy, and with her on the way to being queen consort, there was gonna be people, bodies left in the street because of that. >> harry says, over the years, he was one of those bodies. he accuses camilla, and even his father, at times, using him or william to get better tabloid coverage for themselves.

prince harry writes, camilla, quote, sacrificed me on her personal pr alter. >> if you are led to believe as a member of the family that being on the front page, having positive headlines, positive stories within about two is going to improve your reputation, or increase the chances of you being accepted as monarch by the british public, then that's what you are going to do. >> in his book, harry writes that when he introduced meghan markle to his family in 2016, it's fondly father initially took a liking to her. but william was skeptical, disdainfully referring to meghan as an american actress. though harry does not specify who, he says other members of the royal family were uneasy as well. >> right from the beginning, before the marriage, i could feel it. and they jumped on that, and here we are. >> that was, what was that based on, that mistrust? >> the fact that she was an american, an actress, divorced, black, biracial, with a black mother, for typical stereotypes that he becomes a feeding

frenzy for the british press. >> put all those things, and within the family, there were sources of mistrust? >> yes, my family reads the tabloids. it's laid out at breakfast when everyone is together. so, whether you walk around saying you believe it or not, it is still leaving an imprint in your mind. so, if you have that judgment based on a stereotype, right at the beginning, it's very, very hard to get over that. and a large part of it for the family, but also the british press, and numerous other people were like, he's changed. she must be a witch. he's changed. and as opposed to, yeah, i did change. i'm really glad i changed because rather than getting drunk, falling out of clubs taking drugs, i now found the love of my life. and i now have the opportunity to start a family with her. >> soon after, their relationship became public, and harry insisted on putting out a statement, condemning some of the tabloid coverage of meghan,

and what he called, quote, the racial undertones of those tabloid pieces. >> you write that your dad and your brother, william, were furious with you for doing that. why? >> they felt as though it made them look bad. they felt as though they did not have a chance, or were not able to do that for their ponds. what meghan had to go through was similar in some part to what kate and what kamala went through. very different circumstances. but then, you add in the race element, which was what the press, british press jumped on straightaway. i was incredibly naive. i had no idea that the british press were so negative. , i was probably bigoted. >> the relationship with meghan -- >> you think you were bigoted before their relationship with meghan? >> i don't know. put it this way, i did not see what i now see. >> [applause] ♪ ♪ ♪ >> they were married in may 2018 in a ceremony that seemed to promise a more modern and inclusive royal family. and given the titles duke and

duchess of sussex. but behind the scenes, according to harry, williams mistrust of meghan only worsened. >> did you ever try to meet with william and kate to try to defuse the tension? >> yep. >> how did that meeting go? >> not particularly well. >> in early 2019, harry writes the wrecker between william and him exploded, and in harry's college, cottage on ground in kensington palace. >> you argue with, your argument with your brother became physical? >> it was a buildup of frustration on his part, i think. it was at a time where he was being told southern, certain things by people within his office. and at the same, time he was consuming a lot of the tabloid press, a lot of the stories. and he had a few issues which were based, not on reality, and i was afraid for my wife. he was coming for her, she wasn't there at the time.

but through the things that he was saying, i was defending myself and moving from one room into the kitchen, and his frustrations were growing and growing and growing. he was shouting at me. i was shouting back at him. there, it wasn't nice. it wasn't pleasant at all. and he snapped. he pushed me to the floor. >> he talked to over? >> he knocked me over. i landed on the floor -- >> you cut your back? >> i got my back, i did not know about it at the time. he apologized later, it was a pretty nasty experience. >> he asked you not to tell anybody, not to tell meghan? >> yes, and i wouldn't have done. i didn't until she saw my back. and she was like, what's that? i was -- she didn't know what she was talking about, and i was like -- [bleep] because i've never seen it. >> megan has said constant quick-witted system and pressure led her in the winter of 2019 to contemplate suicide. >> that thing is terrifying, the issue -- >> you really feared that your

wife meghan -- >> yes, i feared a lot that the end result, the fact that i lost my mom when i was 12 years old, could easily happen against my wife. >> in january 2020, prince harry and meghan announced they intended to, in their words, step back as senior members of the royal family. they moved to california three months later. then, there was the headline grabbing interview with oprah winfrey, and in a deal with netflix, worth a reported $100 million. critics say the duke and duchess are cashing in on their royal titles, while they still can't. >> why not renounce your titles as duke and duchess? >> what difference with that make? >> one of the criticisms that you've received is that, okay, fine, you want to move to california, you want to step back from the institutional role, why be so public? why reveal conversations you've had with your father or with your brother? you say that you try to do this privately. >> and every single time i tried to do it privately, there

would be pretty things, leakings, planted stories against me and my wife. you know, the family motto is, never complain, never explain. it is just a motto. and it doesn't really -- >> there's a lot of complaining and a lot of explaining -- >> yes. >> and all can be done through leaks? >> through leaks. >> prince harry continues to claim he would never lead against his family. >> so, now, trying to speak a language that perhaps they understand, i will sit here, and speak truth to you with the words that come out of my mouth, rather than using someone else, and unnamed source, to feed in lines or a narrative, to a tabloid media that literally radicalizes its readers, to then potentially cause harm to my family, my wife, my kids. >> last month, the british tabloid, the son, published a vicious column about meghan written by tv host. >> they said, i hater, at night,

i'm not able to sleep, i like they're grinding my teeth, dreaming of the day where she was made to walk naked in the streets of every town in britain, while the crowds crowd shame, and throw lumps at her. did that surprise you? >> no, it's shocking. but, i mean, thank you for approving our point. >> has there been any response from the palace? >> no, and that comes the point, silence is betrayal. >> a lot to talk about. i'm joined now by max foster, kate williams, bonnie greer. there's a lot of issues there to talk about, the issue of kamila, which is probably one of the big allegations made in this book. but, bonnie, i just want to bring up something that was not included in the 60 minutes interview, though it was played on cbs mornings this morning. i asked harry about a comment that meghan, the duchess of sussex, had me to oprah winfrey in that headline making interview when they first came

to the united states before the netflix show. and she had said that a member of the family had, of harry's family, have expressed concerns, they've been conversations about the potential skin color of their first child. i want to play they -- didn't go any further in that interview, or they were pressed to go further. it became a huge story. i want to play, and i asked terry about. >> in your interview with oprah winfrey, one of the most explosive claims came from megan which was a member of the royal family wondered how dark your child skin would be. that was not brought up in netflix or in the book. why? >> the way the british press reacted to that was fairly typical to. there was like a hunt for the racism, and neither of us believed that that comment, or that experience, or that

intervene, opinion, was based on racism and conscious bias. yes, i think that you speak to the majority, maybe not all, the majority of mixed race couples around the world, that the white side of the family would wonder whether talking openly about it or amongst themselves, what it would look like. the key word here is concern, as opposed to curiosity. but the way that the british press, what they turned it into it, it was not what it was. >> you stand by that happen, and he just didn't feel the need to -- >> remember what else did i say at the end of the interview -- >> that you would not discuss it further. >> exactly. >> body, what do you make of how he framed that? because obviously, we've got huge publicity at the, time and there's no mention of netflix, no mention of it in his book. >> you know, i thought. and you remember oprah's

reaction was, something like, what! and the whole world stopped. and meghan looked as she was about to cry. so, we have to take that as very serious. and maybe even deliver it. and then, harry implies that maybe it wasn't. so, you know, how do you take this? >> the other thing i wanted to say that i think, i didn't have a chance to say about spare. anderson, there is no way that a person who is royal on one side, and high mobility on the other, would be surprised about being called a spare. the second son is a norm in royal circles. henry the eighth was a second son. his great grandfather was a second son. they were spares. so harry would have known about spears. it would have gone to school with a bunch of spares. the issue, i think, there is no space for this man to be who he is in this particular family. i, mean that's the problem.

and we can see that when he is walking behind his mother's coffin on that day. that is a crisis. and it's a crisis, not just for harry, it's a crisis for the british people. they have to make some decisions about this family. frankly, i've lived here a long time, half my life. and every decade, there is something about the royal family that's going on, every decade. and i think the british people are going to have to make a decision about this because the head of the family is the constitutional head of state. his eldest is the constitutional, his eldest is constitutional. everybody else is the spare. so, you know, we need to actually -- this has to be in the hands of the british people to actually understand what's going on here, and deal with it, because this can keep going on. >> max, you, don't hear prince harry talk about his relationship with the queen consort. i mean, that's really some of

his toughest perspective is about her. >> yes, and i think, for me, that was seismic. you know, he actually -- it's interesting to hear that story, and you are part of the interview, how he lets off charles there. the reality is that at the last 20 years or so, charles has driven this effort to rehabilitate camilla's image. and harry, in that interview, in the book, has literally been blowtorch-ing that, saying that she's dangerous, and she was leaking stories, and that was undermining other members of the royal family. but charles was part of that as well, has been part of that. there's no way she could have gone through that process of working with the media. and -- >> i should point out, harry does hint at that. he does talk about that. he talks about his respective audit in the book. there's more details of it in the book. he talks about one particular incident when harry was actually in high school, and there were all these stories about alleged drug use.

harry was, i believe, smoking pot, he says. the details were, he says, were not true. they were being reported. he believes a decision was made by the spin doctors that were employed by his father and by kamala, essentially to, if not greenlight those stories, not try to squash them or counter, or in some way try to minimize them because they were convinced or told by the doctor that those stories would not, would make prince charles look better. he would suddenly go from being a villain in the story who had been terrible to his former wife to being a loving dad with a drug adults on. >> yeah, i mean, reality is, the more senior members of the family, not necessarily the campaign of the genius of the family. but, i mean, the crying incident. this is according to folklore,

you know, who made who cry? meghan or kate, over the bridesmaid dress just before the wedding. and it's quite defining. i mean, none of us know who made who cry. the story that ran on the papers was that meghan made kate cry, and meghan and harry had really emphasized, saying, it wasn't that way around. it was the other way around. the palace would not address that because it would be a more negative story for kate to make meghan cry, and that's the sort of thing that really frustrates harry and meghan. but, you know, my experience was, whenever i worked with williams inside of the palace, they were to talk, and often they were working with the sussexes as well, they would me talking about racism and sexism in the british tabloid media. and they weren't trying to stick up for them. i was weak in part in those conversations. and clearly, harry had the inside track, and he felt it was always working against him. >> everyone, stick around. more with my interview with prince harry when we come back.

including what happened when he learned his grandmother, queen elizabeth, was near death. >> i lost my brother, i said, what are your plans? how are you and keep getting up there? and then, a couple of hours later, all of the family members in the windsor area we're jumping on a plane together, a plane with 12, 14, maybe 16 seats. >> you are not invited on that plane? >> not invited. ill you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you make something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us.

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with prince harry that first aired last night on cbs's 60 minutes. we picked up the conversation with the death of the queen, and once queen -- behind his grandmother's casket. >> harry has been back in the united kingdom. he was in london last september for a charity event, when the palace announced his grandmother, the queen, was under medical supervision at about morrell castle inn's call. >> i asked my brother, how are you indicate doing up there. and then a couple of hours later, you know, all of them family members in windsor were jumping on a plane together. a plane with 12, 14, maybe 16 seats. >> you were not invited on that plane? >> not invited. >> by the time harry got to balmoral on his own, the queen was dead. >> i walked into the hall, and my aunt was there to greet me. she asked me if i wanted to see her. i thought about it for about

five seconds, think it was a good idea or not, you know what, you can do this. you need to say goodbye. so i went upstairs took my jacket off, and walked in, and just spent some time with her alone. >> where was she? >> she was in her bedroom. i was really happy for that, because she finished life, she completed life. and her husband was waiting for her, and the two of them were very together. >> as they had 25 years earlier, harry and william found themselves walking together, but apart, this time, behind their grandmother's casket. >> do you speak to william now? do you text? >> currently, no. but i look forward to -- i look forward to us being able to find peace. >> how long has it been since he spoke? >> well -- >> do you speak to your dad? >> you haven't spoken for quite awhile. >> no, not recently. >> can you see a day when you

would return as a full-time member of the royal family? >> no. i cannot see that happening. >> in the book, you call this a full scale rupture. can it be healed? >> yes, the ball is very much in their court. but meghan and i have continued to say that we will, openly apologize for anything that we did wrong, that every time we asked that question, no one is telling us the specifics or anything. there needs to be a constructive conversation, one that can happen in private, and that doesn't get leaked. >> i assume they would say, well, how can we trust you, how do we know that you're not gonna reveal whatever conversations we have in interviews somewhere? >> this all started with them briefing daily against my wife, with lies, to the point of where my wife and i had to run away from my country. >> it's hard, i think, for anybody to imagine a family

dynamic that is so game of thrones without dragons. >> i watched game of thrones, there's definitely dragons. and that is again, the third party, which is the british press. ultimately, without at the british press, it's part of this. we would probably be in a dysfunctional family like -- but at the heart of it, at the heart of it, there is a family, without question. and i really look forward to having that family element back, and i look forward to having a relationship with my brother, i look forward to having a relationship with my father, and other members with my family. >> you want that? >> it's all i ever ask for. >> the 60 minutes reaching out to buckingham palace for comment about this interview, representatives demand that before even considering responding, 60 minutes provide them with a report prior to airing it last night, which is something the broadcast never does. back now with max, kate, and bonnie. so, kate, i mean, obviously the real family would like to avoid all public-for-tat for prince harry. they had not responded and i assume they probably won't this,

is probably the most in terms of the attention, the amount of coverage and revelations to come. what happens now? >> anderson, they've said they're not going to respond. they are going to stay stone. and it's interesting, isn't it? because harry was saying never explain, never complain was just a motto. and as you are saying, this is a lot of complaining, explaining behind the scenes. so they're not gonna say anything officially, but you already have sources pre briefing the newspapers that they're devastated, that william is angry, that there won't be hairy in the carnation. so there are sources who are saying, from buckingham palace south, the sources are -- at the moment, it looks very much as if there can be a reconciliation. there was a big distance between harry saying we haven't spoken for a while. he said they were dragons in the family. he said, the press wanted them to stay apart. they would be terrified by a peace between. them so, there's this huge

investment to keeping them apart. and harry sees that about to continue. so, i don't see a happy family reconciliation anytime soon. but i certainly think that harry feels that he's been damaged so much already that this is not burning bridges, it's honesty. and he's telling his truth. >> bonnie, what do you think happens now? >> well, you know, this is a story of a human being caught in a machine. the royal family, as kate and max have implied, it's a machine. and it's grinding along, and harry has said, halt! so, it has halted, but it's gonna still tried to struggle. if there is a coronation in maine, that's going to be fascinating. but harry is telling a story that has to be told. his mother started it. he's gonna finish it. so, in that sense, spare, and your interview with him, is very, very important, because we're getting a look at the vicious, nasty tabloid switch,

which americans, we don't have any equivalent of that in the u.s.. there is no equivalent. so, he's right about how meghan was labeled, which was appalling. so, this guy is stopping the machine. i hope he does, and i hope the british people in this great country, also begin to look at this machine, because it's not doing, i don't think it's doing the country any good. even though my taxi drivers say is it, he wanted the royal family to stay because it's continuity. >> max, i mean, it's interesting, you know, the palace is not responding publicly. and yet, they're briefing, as kate said, i assume, privately, and offering up people who will say things that they want to be said? >> i haven't had that, it's been a bit of it in the papers. i'm not sure where it's coming from. a very clear decision not to say anything here, to allow harry to have his say, to get it all out, or perhaps to rise above it.

i don't really know. i'm a bit more hopeful than the other two, only because things are so bad they can't get any worse. i mean, he's broken the cardinal rule. you know, he's -- the really private moments he's exposed, the moments at philips funeral, the queen's funeral, he would not talk about this as part of family. he feels he has to do that. it's so bad, i think it can only get better, in the future, they might look at this and say, well, it's all out there now, we might as well try to fix things. and only, it's not gonna happen anytime soon. but we're quite hopeful, you know, it can get better, frankly. >> yes, and he said that the ball is in their court. there need to be conversations. but that, he says that the original offer is still on the table, a partial role for him. he doesn't see a full-time role, but you would like to see a partial roll. obviously, there needs to be a lot of conversations before that. >> charles needs to be kagan, actually take his son's offer up. if he wants to change his institution, that's what he needs to do.

bonnie greer, max foster, kate williams. appreciate all of you for being with us. thank you so much. turn back to u.s. politics and our breaking news tonight. president biden now with his own classified documents controversy, and the justice department investigating. details, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ dry skin is sensitive skin, too. and it's natural. treat it that way with aveeno® daily moisture. formulated with nourishing, prebiotic oat. it's clinically proven to moisturize dry skin for 24 hours. aveeno® let's get started. bill, where's your mask? i really tried sleeping with it, everybody. but i'm done struggling. now i sleep with inspire. inspire? inspire is a sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body with just the click of this button. a button? no mask? no hose? just sleep. yeah but you need the hose,

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