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alec baldwin is facing two counts of involuntary manslaughter tonight, the 2021 rust movie set shooting. cinematographer halyna hutchins was killed when she was struck by a live round of ammunition that was fired from a prop gun. held by eligible when. the movie's armorer, hannah gutierrez, will also be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter. baldwin's attorney says the actor feels blindsided. and is gearing up for a fight. i want to start with cnn security correspondent, josh campbell, entertainment reporter, chloe melas, they've both been covering this story since the beginning. let me begin with you here, josh, you actually spoke thud to the dea intent on bringing these charges. what are you learning about these charges? >> you know, laura, i spoke

with the district attorney and the special counsel here in the first tv tv interview since those charges were announced. and what the dea said specifically, this basically comes down to, in her view, negligence. negligence on the set of that movie, rust. that resulting in these two charges of involuntary manslaughter, towards alec baldwin as well as the armorer on the set, this was a person who is responsible for the safety of the firearms that were there on set. the big question, how did a live round of ammunition get inside a movie weapon? that, obviously, resulted in the death on the set. now, i want to take you to listen to some sound from that interview with the dea, i asked her specifically, was there one particular piece of evidence that sealed it for you? that you knew that you had to prosecute that? she said was actually much more broader than that, take a listen. >> it was the totality of the circumstances, this was a really fast and loose set. and that nobody was doing their job. there were three people, that

if they had done their job that day, this tragedy would not have happened. that's david holmes, hannah gutierrez reed, and out baldwin. if they have just done their basic duties, we would not be standing here. >> and as far as what comes next, the dea says that she expected those charges will be filed by the end of this month, and then a summons will be sent to the defendants. she said they won't be arresting anyone, they'll be summoning them either to come in person or to show up by video conference, and i will see how this prosecution goes and what additional evidence comes about. we know that all the defendants continued to profess their innocence and will put up an aggressive defense. >> it's curious, she would've announced that the charges are still not happening right now, they haven't actually been filed yet. i guess the end of the month. i want to bring in you here, chloe, i'm wondering how alec baldwin, who was one of the people who's been charged, a third person obviously that was named by the dea, in the interview with josh, has already pleaded to i believe a misdemeanor in this event. based on a negligence similar claim. how is alec baldwin responding

to all of this tonight? >> you know, laura, i spoke to alec baldwin's attorneys, i've been in close contact with baldwin in his attorney over the last year plus. since this tragic accident happened. and that is exactly what alec baldwin and his legal team have always maintained. that this was an accident. and i sat down with alec baldwin in august, we spoke about what was happening on the set, and he talked about how the safety was of the utmost importance. and i want you to hear a little bit about, a little bit of what he told me in august. take a listen. >> the business is a business which is cautious and careful and protect the members of the crew all the time. all the time. as a rule. and this is a one and a billion event. and in that one in a billion event, there are two people who didn't do what they're supposed to do.

i'm not gonna say i'm gonna say i want them to go to, president-elect to be -- i want that those are the two people who are responsible for what happened. >> alec baldwin is always said that there was a breakdown in the chain of command of safety on the set. and then it began with the armorer, hannah gutierrez reed, then it moves to dave halls the assistant director, and in a statement today, from alec bald man's attorney, because we haven't heard from alec himself, this is what alex attorney, luke nika's, is telling cnn. quote, this decision distorts halyna hutchins tragic death. and represents a terrible miscarriage of justice. mr. baldwin had no reason to believe there was a live bullet in the gun, or anywhere on the movie set. he relied on the professionals of whom he worked, who assured him the gun did not have live rounds. we will fight these charges and we will win. >> you're also seeing here that there is no plea deal for alec baldwin, he tells me, via his attorney, that he is going to fight this. he will see this through to a

jury trial. and that could be a year plus from now. this is a very difficult time for halyna hutchins family, but they have released a statement in support of these charges. and i want to read you a little bit about what halyna hutchins's family is saying, so, halyna hutchins widower is putting out a statement saying, they're independent investigation also supports charges are warranted. and then it's a comfort to the family that a new mexico, no one is above the law. so, what's interesting to me, though, is that there was this private settlement between alex baldwin, rust productions and halyna hutchins family. and they were actually set to go back and finish filming this movie this year. just about a month or two. so, again, it's interesting as to what alec baldwin has a maintained in what he's saying, but the dea today telling josh campbell, they believe he pulled the trigger, they believe he's responsible. alec baldwin maintaining to cnn,

he never pulled the trigger. so, you know, that is the biggest question. and how did live bullet on the set? >> josh, i want to talk about that latter part as well, and we'll circle back to that, i think it's inching about what the family is saying today. versus what they said following that private settlement. we'll get to that in just a moment. on that point about the trigger, and whether it was actually pulled by alec baldwin. you asked the dea about this very notion, what did she have to say? >> i did, this is so interesting. one thing that we learned in that interview, there's been this debate about what liability does an actor have? if someone on the set hand them a gun and says, this is what's called a cold gun, there's no ammunition in it. is it still incumbent upon that person to check the weapon? and we've heard from alec baldwin, saying, that wasn't really an issue for other actors for that matter, say the same. when they're handed a gun. and they're told that it's empty, they typically believe that. interestingly, the dea told me that is part of their investigation, they actually

consulted with a number of actors, including as she mentioned, a list actors, who said no, it's quite the opposite. these actors themselves check the weapon or have it checked in their presence. the reason why this is so important, it gets to exactly what you are saying about what whether alec baldwin actually pull the trigger. if he didn't check to see if it was empty, that move to the next layer of negligence, and that is something caused that gone to go off. alec baldwin has told chloe, he's told others that he never pulled the trigger. but i asked the dea about that, because we know that part of this investigation, including the fbi actually looking at that weapon, they determined that it was no way, with a gun cocked, that it would've gone off. without the trigger being pulled. i asked the dea, take a listen to her answer. >> obviously, we know that the fbi report says that gun could not have gone off cocked without pulling the trigger. are you confident actually pull the trigger? >> yes, absolutely. the fbi lab is one of the best in the world, and we absolutely believe that the trigger had to

have been pulled in order for that gun to go off. the trigger was pulled. >> and interestingly as well, you'll appreciate this, laura, as a former federal prosecutor, i asked the dea, does this go beyond just this one case with rust? are you also trying to perhaps send a signal out there to other movie production companies, that this type of laps practices allegedly on the side of this movie, are unacceptable. and that they will be prosecuted. she said, absolutely. because you have to remember, at the end of the day, this comes down to the death of someone, a tragedy, the loss of life of cinematographer, halyna hutchins. the district attorney here saying that part of our effort is to ensure that other production staff members out there can go to their place of work, which movie sets are, and do so in a place that is not filled with all kinds of safety violations. so, so many layers to this investigation. and such a fascinating interview today. >> we will see how this all unfolds, we don't have the official charges been filed, thank you to both of you. i want to bring in our lawyers and talk about this as well,

cnn legal analyst, areva martin, and former u.s. attorney, harry lippman. i'm glad to see you both here today. look, there's a lot going on. i'm gonna try and unpack, try to define negligence. who did what when, who had a duty of care to do what? and there is the civil settlement that took place in october. i was alluding to it with our prior guest, i just want to read for the audience saying, this distinction between what they are saying today, the family, and before. today, they are talking about supporting the charges. i will fully cooperate with the prosecution, and we want to hold people accountable. back in october, when the family did settle, this was a civil settlement, as part of the settlement the case was dismissed and they said, i have no interest in engaging in recriminations or retribution of blame to the producers or mr. baldwin. all of us believe her death was a terrible accident. now, i want to go to you first,

areva, on this because the assessment of fault, and the impact of even a civil settlement in a case. is and can be impactful. i wonder do you think these charges are appropriate? >> i do, laura. i know a lot of people believe that alec baldwin was just doing what all actors do. relying on the work of the armorer and the assistant director. but he had the gun. he had an opportunity, like we know george clooney talks about, when he's involved in shooting movies, when there's a gun involved, he had a last opportunity to look at that gun, to make sure that there was a live ammunition in it. and it would be unimaginable for the prosecutor to charge the armorer and this other director without charging the person that actually pulled the trigger. and based on the dea, she's a hunter percent certain, given that fbi report, that the trigger was pulled. we have to keep in mind, laura, alec baldwin wasn't just an

actor on the set, he was also a producer. so, all of the evidence that the prosecutor talked about in terms of totality of the evidence, there's a lot of evidence out there about these safety lapses. the armorer sending text messages saying, she was stretched too thin. we know the armor herself didn't have a great deal of experience. crews walking off the set because of safety violations. and other allegations about safety problems on that set. i think the prosecutors, not just looking at alec baldwin the actor, but looking at his responsibilities as a producer, to make sure that that set was still safe and according to this prosecutor, it was far from safe. >> harry, to that point, out to bring you in here, the following the logic that areva eloquently laid out there, one would think, hold on then, this wouldn't be limited to just three particular people being charged. it wasn't a single producer who would have a duty of care in addition to those who would've been in that custodial chain of handling the gun and ultimately

ensuring that it was not live ammunition inside. so, do you have a sense of why the charges are confined to these three in particular? if there might be a number of people who would have owed a duty of care in a workplace to this young woman? >> i do, but let me start with his duty of care idea. she told as josh just reported, it was about negligence, actually, she told the new york times, he had an absolute duty to be sure the gunman safe. that's just wrong. and way wrong, as a matter of criminal law. it's stated as criminal negligence, and the people could confuse that with a sort of negligence of a car accident. it is not. it has to be a gross deviation from the standard of care that an actor would employ in that situation. she's making a clear, she's charging him as an actor. even as a producer, however, he is, first of all, it's not the producers job, it's the other two, the assistant director is now pleaded, and the armorer to

be sure that this is safe. but he is the kind of producer that a lot of big shot actors are, you put your name on, you make more money. i think this is really, it is a miscarriage of justice. i'm sorry to say. and it is really a grotesque overcharge, as to baldwin. there's just, anyone who knows who's been on the set knows, this is no gross deviation for what actors do. actors here from the armor, and they rely on that. and that's not the standing, that's probably true that they can show beyond a reasonable doubt that he pulled the trigger. but charging him, based on the context of criminal negligence, as you know, as a former criminal prosecutor, it just ain't there, and it's different from what she said to the papers. >> let me play devils advocate before i bring you in here, areva, on this very point though, the idea of negligence, we think about the duty of care that's owed to somebody, you're in a position of either authority or to act prudently into avoid injury. by taking the steps necessary

to avoid the unimaginable from happening. and it can be involved in what's called lawful conduct, the idea of not just having the commission of a crime or otherwise, but engaging in paper that you are entitled to be engaged in, it's not criminal. but because there's either a series of lapses of judgment, or your prudence is not there, you can be held to account in that scenario. are you suggesting that, by virtue of the fact that other people were also responsible to ensure gun safety, it would absolve another? >> if you're talking to me, absolutely not. and again, you're using the language in the concept of negligence of do care, that is not what we're talking about. it's quite clear under either theory, under new mexico law, i've spent some time with a new mexico blow this afternoon. you must show criminal negligence. and that is a much different and higher concept. so, you can say, there was an absolute duty, as she saying in the paper, you're totally right, any place that gun went through,

they would've violated that duty. but that is not what the criminal law is about. and i really think it is a miscarriage of justice. >> areva, what is your take on that? the idea of the criminal negligence, obviously, for your share of trials, how would you go about trying to defend this case, or even to try to understand how to prosecute it? >> well, first of all, i disagree with harry on this point, that this is a grotesque miscarriage of justice. i think when you look at the totality of the facts, this prosecutor had no choice but to charge alec baldwin and the two others that were charged. that are going to be charged. and there is some dispute about what the standard of care is on these movie sets. there was a safety expert today talking about what's done in new york. and how police officers are on sets in new york whenever a gun is fired, and how that police officers are there to make sure before a gun is fired, the ammunition that in that gun is

looked at and there's a final safety check before anyone can handle a gun that's going to be in the scene. there is no hard and fast way, the way this is done, and that's gonna be an issue for the jurors are gonna have to grapple with, and you can see a lot of facts laura coming into this case, it's gonna be a battle of the experts, the prosecution putting on experts to try to establish what should have been done, with the standard in the industry is, the protocols are. and obviously, alec baldwin, whose position is that he is not responsible because he relied on the armor and the assistant director, so, experts coming in and saying, that was reasonable for him to do so. i don't think it's a shutting close case at all, i think that appropriate charge. and remains to be seen, we do know it's difficult to get a conviction against, when you have a celebrity involved. we know that people tend to like their celebrities, and sometimes, they're hesitant to convict celebrities. we know the standard of care is going to be quite high. beyond a reasonable doubt. that's not just a walk in the park, but that --

it's hard to win. it should not be prosecuted. >> we have a lot more to learn before it all goes to trial, again, these charges have not yet been been filed they are going to be. but between us lawyers, obviously here, we've all had to handle a gun in a courtroom, as part of the evidence. and we have a marshall who will hand it back to us and show you that it's clear and there's the expectation that that marshall says to you, before you handle it, it's clear, it's been zip tied in some way or whatever, i do wonder, just how many of us have gone back and checked that and looked to see if there's anything in the chambers. i know that this is going to have repercussions in a lot more industries than just in hollywood, and when it comes to gun safety, for good reason. thank you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> we have a lot more to cover income on this hour, on the charges against alek bowman. as well as the armorer on the set of rust, next, why the screen actors guild calls the charges wrong and uninformed.

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tonight, the screen actors guild is slamming the decision to charge alec baldwin with involuntary manslaughter in the death of rust cinematographer, halyna hutchins. calling it wrong and uninformed. in a statement, they add, quote, the death of halyna hutchins is a tragedy. all the more so because of its preventable nature. it is not a failure of duty or criminal act on the part of any performer. joining me now, the national executive director of sag-aftra, duncan crabtree ireland. thank you for joining me. why are you calling these charges wrong and uninformed? >> thank you having me, laura. it is wrong in an informed because the charges clearly implicate a lack of understanding about the standards and expectations of how a film set operates. and the fact is, actors are not

firearms experts, actors cannot be expected and are not expected to do final safety checks or anything of that nature. some of them may choose to gain that expertise, but that's not a normal part of being an actor. and even in the joint industry wide safety bulletin that makes it very clear, the responsibility for this final checks and making sure the firearms are safe is, not with the actor. >> so, who do you believe, given that the dea seem to allude that had spoken to a list celebrities with the phrase -- actors they quote, always check their guns. or if someone check it in front of them. that seems to be what she was intimating was the standard. is that wrong? >> well, that's deadly not the standard that's in our a stab list industry wide safety bulletin, which is agreed to by the major production companies in the unions involved. in production. of course, it is true that some actors, some actors go up above and beyond, some actors choose to do their own stunts, some actors choose to educate

themselves on how to fly airplanes on how to also details on how to use firearms. but that's not a basic part of the job. and there are other professionals onset who do have that onset safety responsibility. and that's, you know, that's not the actor. so, i'm not commenting on the facts specifics to this case. we don't know the details of the charges yet. we've only heard about them through press reporting on things of that nature. but the fact is, actors are not firearm safety experts, and is not the person who's responsible for doing those checks and making sure that firearms are used on the set are safe. >> important to hear your perspective, duncan crabtree ireland, thank you so much. >> thank you having me. >> so, the big question is, how did a star like alex bald when, decade long career in movies and television, and up facing criminal charges? along with the armorer? on that set? we're gonna talk about it more, next.

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>> the big question on everyone's mind tonight is, how did a star of movies like tv and -- movies and tv like alec baldwin -- who has been in the spotlight for decades -- how did he end up where we are tonight, facing criminal charges in the deadly shooting on the set of the movie rust that claimed the life of cinematographer halyna hutchins joining me now is jim morey, chief correspondent for inside edition, and wall street journal reporter catherine sayer. this is a day that according to

the attorneys, alec baldwin, catherine, is feeling blindsided by today's charges. why do you think they did not expect these criminal charges? >> well, i think if you go back to when the shooting happened, i was covering it forum from day one -- and you think back to that time, when film production is just ramping back up after the pandemic, there is this huge demand for content -- and this was really a pet project of alec's but alone budget film -- $7 million. and a lot of questions began to be raised whether there was cutting of corners at the expense of safety. but this was alek's pet project that he was focused on getting done in just a few weeks. >> we just spoke to duncan crabtree ireland, jim jim, who is the national director of sag actra and one of the reasons, i'm sure, that they are coming

forward, it seems, in support, of a fellow actor, is the idea that this is going to have a ripple effect and have repercussions, certainly, on, perhaps, the way that safety protocols are put in place or how they are implemented and held to account -- and he is, obviously, facing some pretty serious, tough headlines. he has had that before. but he told cnn in august that he lost five jobs since the rost shooting. what is the impact on his career, on the bigger issues of what this would look like in hollywood as well? and how it might change peoples approach? >> as far as his career, i think you really have to wait until the other shoe dropped. you have to wait to see what happens as this case unfolds. your guess from sag actra, and even from harry lippman, made compelling cases that there's a standard of care in this industry. and they argue that alec baldwin follow that standard, that the actor is not the one responsible in this case. however, this is more

complicated. then, i think, a typical case -- you talk about a very low budget film. you talk about a situation where there were allegations of safety lapses or violations of safety protocols. alec baldwin is a producer in this case. this was a rehearsal. you could argue, there should not have been anything -- a cold gun in that case would imply, nothing is in the gun, not a blank. and also, the armorer was not even in the room at the time. that's another alleged safety laps so, i don't think it's so cut and dry. and i think that alec baldwin has every expectation he can win this case if he puts on the solid gate. he believes he's innocent. he also believes he is not responsible at all. he says, he did not pull the trigger. the other guests confirmed that the fbi did an analysis of the gun that found it -- to be operational, the only way the gun would go off is if the trigger is both. there are a lot of questions in this case law. >> there are. and we are focusing, obviously,

on alec baldwin, but there's another person -- third person who has already entered a guilty plea for a lesser charge. and we should note that the penalty for these, and the proposed sentences, can be up to a 5000 dollar fine, up to 18 months in prison. these are serious charges. and again, it did claim the life of the cinematographer. but there is a lot of reference on this, point catherine, to the idea of the budget on the set and the dea talked about some events and other instances where crew members had walked off, intimating this was related to safety. and we know at one point there was a walkout over payment and housing disputes, and at least two accidental prop gun discharges on the set in the days before the shootings. so, there were some issues, as reported by other outlets as well. what impact do you see this having? >> well, to jim's point, there are still a lot of questions.

you brought up hannah gutierrez reed, the armorer. she was, essentially, a rookie. she had studied under her father, who was an armorer in the industry. she had just come off her first project as lead armorer. and as she said, she was not only armorer on -- but she had a second job, assisting on props. and so, some of the questions around her was, did the production hire the most experienced person? or was there some, essentially, cost cutting around that? >> it's important, jim, to think about, where all this leads. and as we learn more, the charges have not yet been filed -- understand -- but they are eminent at this point. and so, we will have serious repercussions, probably, across a number of injuries. jim, catherine, thank you so much. >> a pleasure. >> up next, we have a former prop master for saddening live, who says he saw some red flags,

we'll, everywhere after the rust fatal shooting. we will also hear from an armorer who works on the set to give us some for the clarity on what might happen here.

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>> a lawyer for alec baldwin says the actor and his legal team feel blindsided that he's being charged with involuntary manslaughter in the fatal shooting of cinematographer halyna hutchins on the set of rust. baldwin insists he did not know the gun was loaded with a live round. the film's armorer, hannah gutierrez-reed, he's also

charged. let's discuss now with -- merrick the founder of -- gun safety -- and rob ackerman, the former prop master for saturday night live. good to have you on, in an area where everyone is wondering, what is supposed to happen on the sets? what actually does happen? and this idea of what the standard is in the industry, let alone a duty of care. i'm going to begin with you here on this, rob. because you are actually a prop master at saturday night live live for 20 years. you actually worked at one point on the show with alec baldwin. and you said, when the shooting actually happened, you noticed some red flags almost immediately. what were they? there are so many. basically, there is a system, a series of checks and balances on how to be safe onset. on snl, because it was frantic and hectic, we had a very -- directive assistant director or

ad who would work with an armorer -- closely -- also a supervising producer -- and i really relieved the actor's job is always to be an artist, a performer, to think about the work of telling a story, in kind of a make believe, artistic endeavor. endeavor. the armorer's job is to be a safety check on everything on that actors behalf. that is how it always -- at snl. and the armorer, when i worked at snl, took that off my plate, my very full plate. and i was always grateful to the armorer's for his or her expertise, when it came to handling firearms. >> well -- you are an armorer and i ask, in the sense of, what seems to have transpired here, according to what the dea is saying about the charges, she laid out a case that, essentially, not only the armorer was at fault,

because she has also been charged, but also alec baldwin and the responsibility for him and having handled the weapon, to perform a similar safety check that would have been expected at with that armorer -- how do you see it? >> obviously, we teach a class. we do a workshop based on -- rust sort of brought this whole thing to bear. and a big part of the class is to break down the many failings on the rust set. and we have identified about 35 really particular contributing factors. so, when we have a workshop, in a -- room filled with gun professionals -- all these things happen, you tell me, who is responsible for this death, and we have a discussion. and i don't let them finish until we get to at least ten different names. there is that many hands and it's that had some part and had some contribution to why halyna hutchins is not with us today. and obviously, not the least of it where the buck stops in the

actor's hands, with a loaded gun that he never expected to be loaded. but you can work your way all the way back up the food chain, from the person that handed it to him, the first ad, who should never be handling a gun, ever -- that is not his job. i ad is like a conductor. they don't play any of the instruments, they just tell them all went to come in on cue. and then you take that back to the armorer, the promise, or the ammo supplier, the producers for the hiring practices -- they are so many hands in this. it's a great example for us to learn by and realize how we need to change some of the practices in low budget, nonuse in non-union films as well. -- >> sadly, the lesson that has been derived from it has cost someone on their life. and i wonder at that point, dutch merrick we, deaths have been -- live ammunition on a set. obviously, you are the prop master at saturday night live. i'm sure there has been a fair share of skits that have involve some level of

resembling or maybe even being a gun. has there ever been, in your experience and expectation, that there would be live ammunition that could possibly be in the area? >> absolutely not. it would be unconscionable to have a bullet, an active bullet. if there are -- the blanks -- and flash rounds are one thing. they have wanting wadding -- . . and the armor was talking about, she thought they rattled. it's very clear, they rattle. but if a bullets were able to appear on my set of -- i would be horrified. it would not. because no really seasoned armor would ever bring live ammunition, bullets, to fit into a working firearm, into a

set. it's just not even in the realm of something i can imagine at snl. and if it happened, i would stop everything. >> on that point, rob ackerman, there's been a lot made -- and i've heard this phrase tonight -- and i've heard throughout the day about a low budget, non-union film. why that's irrelevant in terms of a teaching lesson in order to -- why the budget so important in this conversation? >> it seems to me -- and dutch can add to this -- he has a lot of experience too. but it seems to me that they were having, this young woman -- multitask -- she was working as a prop assistant, and also as an armorer, which, anytime there's a firearm onset, that is just not okay. you are one and only task -- and every armorer i have exist -- with this is true -- the only task is the -- care and moment to moment -- safety with that prop gun, a

firearm. that is all you should be thinking about. any ancillary work, i don't think, is a fair expectation. but i think that was most likely happening because of a low budget. because there was not another line, another line item, to spare. >> dutch merrick, rob ackerman, think he's a. much >> -- for having me. >> and up next, hollywood's history, unfortunately, of tragic accidents on set. with two max-strenength pain relievers. ♪ so you can rise from pain like a pro. icy hot pro.

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>> out baldwin facing charges in the onset shooting death of

cinematographer halyna hutchins -- with this horrible incident is just the latest tragedy on a hollywood set. remember back in 1993? the crows star brandon lee was killed by a prop gun that was later found to be improperly loaded. in 1984, actor jon-erik hexum died after accidentally shooting himself in at the head with a prop gun. and the incidents, they go on. joining me now, editor-in-chief of the wrap, sharon waxman, and lawyer donna romano. let me begin here with you, sharon. -- just listing some of the incidents we have seen, the question is, for so many, is, does hollywood take safety seriously or not? >> it's interesting. the last horrific incident that you are citing is literally 30 years ago. and in that period of time, there have been not hundreds but probably thousands of productions that have gone on

with relative safety. and i have never heard of anything close -- like a close call of a gun going off like this. >> wow. >> so, i don't know that it's there. i'm not here to defend hollywood, if that's not fair. but it doesn't feel to me like this is an issue. from talking to all the experts at the time of the rust shooting that there is a culture of lack city laxity -- this particular production had a ton of problems. right now, whether this could never happen again, it's a terrible thing to contemplate. because, right now, the implications of this -- this tragedy, for this woman and her family in all the other people who now have to live with the fact that this happened and that they were part of this tragedy. >> dominic, i see you champing at the bit. what is your reaction? yeah, i see a very --

across the border, 1914. between 1980 and 1990, 37 deaths in the united states alone. 2014 24 of them by -- not too many people dying on sets and helicopters. but since 1990, over 50 people in the united states have died on film and television sets. 50. and 150 life-altering injuries. check the associated press article from 2016 there have been a number of deaths since. deadpool 2 -- someone killed in vancouver, canada. -- dozens of people internationally. this is a real problem. we are talking about slaps on the rest. you talked earlier about a 5000 dollar fine for these people if the charges go through. in the film the crow, the fine was reduced to $55,000. that film roast over $50

million. there's not enough deterrence and there is lax safety on -- not on all movie sets and television sets -- but on several. history -- >> -- bring up different issues is that -- as movies have to amp up the excitement and the stunts, then, you see fast and furious. you just saw the mission: impossible trailer with tom cruise doing, literally, death defying stunts. then, the risk level, naturally goes higher. because the audience expectation of yet more thrilling things to see on screen goes higher. so, that's not what happened on this set. this was a western in the most traditional sense. that did not have any money and did not seem to have followed very well-established protocols. so, whether there is a problem on sets that have to do with

very intense -- how you referred to helicopters -- that is not what was going on the set. >> true, true, but -- >> hold on, one second. i've got to tell you. this is not going to end today, this conversation. but unfortunately, it has to in tonight. and we are going to carry on -- talk about this very important issue. i thank you both. everyone, thank you for watching. our coverage does continue. (kathryn) now, after this year's event, subaru and our retailers are prproud to have donated over two hundred and fifty million dollars to c charity. (brent) just tremendously satisfying to know that we're doing something that's helping other people. every car company wants to sell you a car, but none of them give back like subaru. (jennifer) the reason why golo customers have such long term success is because the golo plan takes a holistic approach

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>> good evening, but i said when -- dave crosby has died. he's a member of