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of a vigil outside city hall in monterey park, california. people have been stopping by throughout the evening there in remembrance of 11 murdered over the weekend by a gunman at a dance studio as they were celebrating the lunar new year. one of three mass shootings since saturday leaving 19 dead and california's governor with harsh words for washington and republican lawmakers. >> federal government needs to do its job. let's call it out. we have one party that are obstructionists. i'm damn sick and tired of this stuff. i'm sick of this. i don't want to ever see this again. i don't want to see you again in this condition. i'm serious. i'm not making this up about all these damn notes. how many governors have you seen doing the same damn dance we are doing here today? >> joining us senator chris murphy, democratic, connecticut, in the wake of the mass murder at sandy hook elementary school ten years ago. appreciate you joining us. you hear the anger from gavin

newsome. california some of the strongest gun laws in the country. what more in your opinion can be, should be done? >> well, the problem is, you know, guns don't pay much attention to state boundaries. california can have strong laws. connecticut can have strong laws. but weapons cross state lines. and so these assault-style weapons that are used in mass shootings, you can't buy them in california and connecticut but you can buy them in texas and georgia and transport them into our states. same thing with the crime guns used in hartford and los angeles. the illegal gun trade, those guns move from states with very loose background checks where criminals and gun traffickers can easily buy guns in states with more rigorous background checks. until we have a federal law banning mass murder assault weapons and requiring everybody to go through a background check

before they buy a gun, the state laws are, you know, of limited efficacy. i think that's the frustration, the deserved frustration you are hearing from gavin tonight. >> there have been 40 mass shootings in 2023 so far. president biden is urging congress to pass an assault webs ban. now with the republican house majority. is it clear whether the president has a plan b? >> well, listen, there is certain executive actions that the president can continue to take. he is implementing the law we passed last year. but i also don't accept that we can't get this done. i understand that right now it's hard to figure out how an assault weapons ban passes the senate and house, but only a month before eovaldi people would have never guessed we would have been able to close the boyfriend loophole, put more rigorous background checks on

younger fire. the people of the country said they were going to be voted out of office if they didn't do something. i still have hope that the voters of this country are going to command republicans to do the right thing. i'd love to ban assault weapons. i know the ten years we didn't allow them to be sold commercially in the country, we had a dramatic decrease in mass shootings. as soon as that ban expired, the mass shootings went upward again. let's look at raising the age to 21 before you can buy a weapon. require background checks at the very least for these military-style rifles. there are things we can do short of a ban that i hope congress will look at if we can't get the ban done. >> san mateo county sheriff spoke to cnn today and shooting at half moon bay said it's not just the guns and urged a multipronged approach to deal with mental health. what would that look like to you? does that make sense to you?

>> well, i mean, listen, people snap all over the world, right? america isn't the only place with people whose brains are breaking. we are not the country with more mental illness than other countries. in this country we have a fetisi z ation of pep weaponry and easy of access to the tools of mass murder that people have moments of mental crisis and have easy access to weapons. other countries just don't allow that. so i'm all for spending more on mental health, in fact, the gun bill we passed last year put 50 billion additional dollars into mental health. i never thought we would solve our gun violence problem without tightening up our gun laws because america just doesn't have a bigger mental illness problem. we are just the only country with all these gun murders. >> when you look at a few of the shootings in the past few days, dance studio in monterey park, a school in iowa, workplace in

half moon bay, i mean, the victims were going about their daily lives, collectively, what do you think that does to us? i mean, what does that do to a nation's psyche? do people realize the toll this takes on a country? >> no. listen, you know, i think about my kids, right? we all think about our kids. i have a middle-schooler and elementary school student and they go through active shooter drills. our kids don't feel safe anywhere in the country. many workers will not feel safe. i think we have to be smart about this. the way to approach this problem is to get these guns out of the hands of dangerous people. i don't want our country to turn into an armed encampment. the solution is not having armed police officers outside of every single church, workplace, every single school. that's not the environment conducive to making us healthier

individuals. so to me, yeah, we got to invest in some level of new security in public spaces. but we have to get these illegal guns off the street. we have to get these dangerous weapons out of the hansds of dangerous people. that's the solution to make the country safer. >> i want to ask about a cnn reporting that a former mike pence lawyer found classified documents. it's a problem that affects both parties. it does there need to be an overhaul how classified documents are handled? >> i guess so. i mean, this is news to a lot of us in congress. i didn't know that you could take classified documents out of the united states capitol. perhaps there were different rules at the white house. so, obviously, we've got to have a better system to make sure that classified documents at the white house are handled maybe in the same way they are handled in congress where you can't leave the building with them in your

hand. but it looks like vice president pence approached this the same way president biden did, which was once he found out he had taken these documents, they were in his house, he immediately alerted the authorities. very different than patresident trump who was being pulled over for speeding and led the cops on a high-speed chase for a couple of weeks. i'm glad vice president pence is cooperating. we have to look why all these classified documents are getting out of safe spaces. >> senator chris murphy, appreciate it. thank you. andrew mccabe is joining us. fbi profiler mary ellen o'toole. when you heard more about the details of the shooting that happened in half moon bay , california, did it strike you there were similarities to the shooting? certainly the age, race of the gunman? >> i thought it was very striking. i tell you why. because the age of both gunmen,

67, 67, and 72, those are tremendous outliars because the average age of the shooters, of shooters we see nowadays is the early 30s. so look at it this way. so for 67, 68 years, 72 years in the monterey park case. these men were able to navigate through life, handle stressors, maybe not particularly well, handle being upset, maybe angry at the workplace, but they did have coping behaviors and then now all of a sudden those coping behaviors are not what they should be, they are not relying on them. i found it very interesting when both were back to back and it also made me wonder about the copycater, the contagion effect in the shootings that we see in younger shooters. >> andrew, from a law enforcement perspective and looking at the data, do mass shootings often come in sort of waves of tragedy like that,

whether it is a copycat effect or not? >> well, what we know, anderson, is several mass shooters have drawn inspiration from mass shooters before them. we know that with the columbine shooters, of course, reached like mythical status in that community. we know that the shooters at the el paso shooting, walmart shooter, several others took inspiration from the christchurch mosque shooter in new zealand. so this kind of reputational predecessor is a significant factor in that community. whether or not that was an element in these shootings remains to be seen. you know, we understand that the half moon bay shooter has been cooperating with the police. at least he was initially. he may have made statements to that effect. if that's not the case, investigators will look closely

at anything he has written in his electronic devices, texts, emails, conversations with friends to see if he has any the sorts of references. but it's a good question. it's not one that we're quite ready to answer with respect to these two shooters. >> you worked on this groundbreaking report in the wake of the columbine shooting that focused on the ripple effect of violence. what were some of the key findings? >> there was a copycat effect, which meant after one shooting occurred, then the level of violence increased. there were more threats of violence and more additional shootings. as the shootings got more sensational, then prior shooters became like andy said, inspirational, they become folk heroes. new shooters aspire to be like dylan and eric. so there is that influence of people that are involved in this

kind of behavior. we first -- we really first studied copycat effect following the suicide of marilyn monroe. but that wasn't the first time that lots of human behavior influenced other humans to do the same thing. and so it's not unusual that this copycat behavior is part of what we see with mass shootings and it still continues. it's just when you have older men, 67, 68, 72, peer influence is not nearly as important if you are 20 or 21 where what other people think of you is really important. that's another reason these are outliers to me. >> appreciate it. thank you very much. coming up next, is it political pay ac. kevin mccarthy announcing he is keeping two democrats off the house intelligence committee, including the former chairman, adam schiff. congressman schiff joins us. and what could be a pivotal

moment for the former president. take a look at where the district attorney is leading the investigation, saying that charging decisions are imminent. . mailchimp takes the guesswork out of email marketing by analyzing data from billions of emailils to offer suggestionsns for how to improve engagemement and revenue. guess less and sell more with intuit mamailchimp. the pepperoni on panera's new toasted baguette. is sliced a little thicker. to hold more flavor. so when fresh mozzarella melts over it... that detai.. will be big. try the new toasted baguettes from panera. one dollar delivery fee on our app. will be big.

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the house intel committee to genuine honesty and credibility that gains the trust of the american people. joining us is adam schiff. i wonder what your response is to speaker mccarthy's decision to block you from serving on the committee? >> well, you know, sadly, it's going to do damage to the committee to have him use it as this political play thing. this is kevin mccarthy responding to the demands of the most extreme elements of his conference, the marjorie taylor greenes, paul fwoe sars and wishes of his boss this mar-a-lago. his upset is over the fact that we investigated and impeached donald trump over his withholding of hundreds of millions of dollars from ukraine in its war with russia in order to extort that country into helping his campaign. and sadly, i think this is an effort to try to stop oversight, to stop those who would stand up to him. but i could tell you, anderson, it's not going to work. i am more determined than ever

to hold him accountable and to what i can to protect our democracy. >> speaker mccarthy addressed this tonight. i want to play a little bit of what he said. >> this is not anything political. this is not similar to what the democrats did, but integrity matters. and they have failed in that place from adam schiff using a position of the intel chair, lying to the american public again and again. >> he says you lied and that, you know, the republicans are going to argue republicans won the house and this is their prerogative, they can do this. >> they can do any number of destructive things, and it appears this they are very much ready to do that. this is the latest smear from kevin mccarthy. he is kind of a shifting series of rationalizations for removing me or eric swalwell from the committee.

at the end of the day was his real motivation. he sent out an email blast encouraging people to click a button to remove me from the committee. it was a fundraising gimmick on the one hand. more seriously, this is kevin mccarthy's way of getting and keeping the votes he needs to be speaker. this is what marjorie taylor greene demanded and he is ready to do it. you know, my primary concern, anderson, is in essentially playing with the membership of our committee and destroying some of the independence of the intelligence committee in establishing a new select committee on the weaponization of the federal government, this orwellian creation, is going to breed distrust in the intelligence committee. they are not going to want to share information with congress that we need to make decisions because they will not trust mccarthy or the people he puts on the committee. >> don bacon said it's, quote, corrosive, unquote, to be kicking people off committees and hopes it can end. moments ago victoria sparks

weighed in against the move. give given, would you support a deal wen mccarthy and jeffries that would put an end to parties blocking people from certain committees? >> the precedent was set in the last congress. if members of congress incite violence against other members of congress, they shouldn't be serving on committees. i think that's the right precedent. if we would stick into, then i don't think we would have this issue except when people are encouraging violence. but i appreciate these republican members speaking out against what mccarthy is doing. sadly, with the intelligence committee he doesn't need to bring it to a house vote, which he might lose. i think it shows that the republicans who understand this is very ill considered, it's going to damage the institution. it's not justified. the votes last year were bipartisan. these efforts are not at all bipartisan. indeed, the opposition is bipartisan. >> you are in the minority in the house. nourt going to be on the

intelligence committee. does this give you more incentive to run for senate in california in 2024? you are considered a likely candidate, as you know. >> i am speaking with leader jeffries about what is the best way i can be helpful in the house to continue to defend our institutions. to continue to do the work that people in california sent me to do. in terms of other potential responsibilities, i don't want to make any announcement tonight. i will have more it say in the near future. but i will say this, anderson. if kevin mccarthy thinks this is going to stop me from doing my job, proitecting our democracy, he will soon learn he will make me fight harder. >> thank you. in georgia decisions are imminent whether donald trump will be charged. that's what the d.a. told the judge in fulton county today at a hearing over whether to release the grand jury's final

report. their seven-month probe began after that call by president trump pressing the secretary of state to find the votes necessary for him to win the state. he lost in georgia to biden by 12,000 votes. sara murray joins us from atlanta with the latest. what more is the district attorney signaling about decisions on possible charges and when those could be announced? >> reporter: well, anderson, we may not get a decision overnight. it seems like we will get one sooner rather than later. district attorney willis told the judge the decisions are imminent whether she is going to bring indictments against donald trump or any of his associates in this investigation into election interference. she seemed to be signaling that the special grand jury had recommended some people for criminal charges. we don't know that for certain because, of course, we haven't seen their final report. but as she was talking in court about wanting it keep this report under wraps, she kept referring to how important it is to protect the rights of future

defendants. she specifically said it was important to preserve the rights of future defendants and make sure they were able to get a fair trial. she previously named more than a dozen people as potential targets in this investigation, people like rudy giuliani, donald trump's former attorney, as well as more than a dozen republicans who served as fake electors for donald trump here. >> did the judge give any hints in the hearing on whether he is inclined to release the grand jury's report? >> reporter: you know, he didn't really tip his hand on where he is going to rule on this. he said he didn't want to make any rash decision on the matter. but he really pressed the prosecutors on whether there was any, you know, legal reason whether there was any law saying he could not release the special grand jury's reform. he pointed out that the grand jurors voted, they wanted to make this report public, her eager to make this report public. he pointed to the january 6th committee saying this is an investigative body that has done so much work out in the public that does not seem to have

hindered ongoing criminal investigations. again, no final ruling. he said that he may put forward an order. but he is not going to drop the report all of a sudden overnight on the american people. >> did he give an indication if it would be the full report or a redacted version? >> reporter: he didn't. i think that the issue is we don't know what the shape of this special grand jury report is, if they wrote this lengthy narrative, maybe you could redact people's names, redact the recommendations about people facing criminal charges. if they wrote something narrower saying we have been investigating for seven months,er here are the people that should face charges and the conduct underlying the recommendations, it would be hard to redact. since we know so little about how this report is structured, it's hard to kind of guess how he is going to move forward on this. >> sara murray, thanks. next, we are live in texas where a tornado hit houston today.

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hours ago. a tornado hit the houston area leaving behind a trail of damage. the officials are still trying to assess it. as of 9:00 p.m. eastern time tonight 14 tornado reports in southeastern texas and southwestern louisiana. rosa flores is in pasadena, texas, with the latest. what is it like on the ground there? >> reporter: well, you know, anderson, there is a lot of destruction but people are counting their blessings because there are no fatalities. there are no life-threatening injuries. but this tornado, this stream of storms left a very destructive path. you can see these are some of the projectiles that were flying. i want to show you what's behind me because this is what we've been seeing around here. this was a gym, a crossfit gym. if you look closely, you will even see some of the workout equipment under the mangled roof. the owner of this gym spoke to our affiliate khou and he really described the intense moments when this storm, this potential

tornado here, it's unclear, there is still assessments being made, he described the chaos and the loud noises. he says that four people were inside this crossfit gym at the time of this tornado and he says that they all ran to the bathroom of this gym and that's how they survived. they credit that bathroom for their survival. now, it's dark, so it's a little difficult for us to show you more around, but in the distance there is also police activity. again, the assessments are going on. to my right you can't see because it's dark, but there is ponding on the street. here on my left, you can see that these are giant power lines that fell over this gym. again, speaking to the intense moments of when this happened. and the power lines here look like they split like toothpicks.

now, at the height of the storm, centerpoint energy which services the houston metropolitan area did report more than 100,000 customers without power, but since then they have been working through, there is power outages, anderson. so at last check in the last 15 minutes there were more than 50,000 customers without power. but again there is this path of destruction. people here describe just those intense chaotic moments where they were really hoping to survive. of course, now we know from authorities that there are no fatalities at this time. >> earlier you were in deer park, six miles northeast. i know there were cars overturned by a school, is that right? >> reporter: i talked to a woman there who described those intense moments at the time that the tornado hit. she says that she was inside of the administration building, but she showed me her car. i know we have images of this, because the car overturned, but

here is the thing. that car was yards away. so again it speaks to the intensity of this tornado. she also showed me her sister's car was parked next to thuhers tha car was further away. the tornado skirted a school. thank goodness all those children mwere okay. of course the parents saw the overturned cars. >> rosa flores, thank you. ahead, the debate over ballistics testimony in the trial of alex murdaugh on trial for the kills of his wife and youngest son. that trial expected to be in tomorrow. randi kaye has been following the case from the start. joins us next. ♪

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the double murder trial of alex murdaugh is expected to begin tomorrow. murdaugh is a member of one of south carolina's most storied families. he was in court today as they continued jury selection. he is on the trial of murders of

his wife and youngest son. joined by randi kaye who has been following this case from the beginning. the two side argued other ballistics evidence. what was it about? >> reporter: well this ballistics expert is someone that the state would like to have testify. so they had a hearing about him and his testimony in court today. this expert has said that shotgun shell casings at the murder scene and along the murdaugh's hunting estate on the property there seemed to have come from the same gun and that would be alex murdaugh's shotgun. the defense says that's impossible to know because shotgun shell casings are not u feek niek like fingerprints. they say there is no study to back up this expert's findings. in the end, the judge did say that this expert can testify at trial. but, anderson, this is just the beginning. as you know, once alex murdaugh faces this murder trial and is done with it, he is also having to answer to a slew of alleged financial crimes and mysterious

deaths in his orbit. >> remember, five people died in his orbit. i don't know anybody in my 60 years of life that had five people die in their orbit. >> he is talking about alex murdaugh, lawyer eric bland represents the family of his former housekeeper gloria satterfield. she died in 2018 after allegedly falling down the steps at his son. his wife and son were both still alive at the time and called 911. >> my housekeeper has fallen and her head is bleeding. >> reporter: the south carolina law enforcement division plans to ex combe her body and take another look at how she died. >> is it in the road or side of the road? >> he laying in the road. >> reporter: investigators are also taking another look at the mysterious death of 19-year-old stephen smith found dead on a rural south carolina road in 2015. investigators reopened the case after all these years because of

information gathered during the investigation of the murders of alex murdaugh's wife and son. what do you believe happened to your son? >> i believe he was beaten to death. >> reporter: the murdaughs haven't said anything publicly, but it's not just steven's family who has kouts about what happened happened. audio in the case file from the lead vest getary the time shows he didn't believe this was just a hit-and-run. south carolina state trooper todd procter. >> typically, you don't see the highway patrol working a murder. that's what this is. there is no doubt. we are not classifying this as anything other than a murder. >> better in a crash on -- >> reporter: when 19-year-old mallory beach was killed in a boat crash in 2019 paul murdaugh, alex's youngest son, was allegedly driving the boat while drunk. paul was awaiting trial when he was shot and killed. beach's family said murdaugh in a civil suit. in all, murdaugh is accused of

defrauding friends, colleagues and clients of nearly $9 million. remember his former housekeeper gloria satterfield? murdaugh admitted he still millions in settlement money from her sons in an elaborate scheme. murdaugh apologized in court and agreed to pay her sons $4.3 million. after that more of his alleged financial schemes were exposed. >> i got a flat tire. >> mm-hmm. >> and i stopped and somebody stopped to help me. when i turned my back, they tried to shoot me. >> reporter: less than three months after the double homicide of his wife and son, alex murdaugh was shot in the head on a roadside by a man he arranged to kill him. in september 2021, murdaugh admitted to authorities he arranged for the man to shoot him as part of a fraud scheme so his only surviving son, buster, could collect an insurance payout, according to a court affidavit. as a result of that, murdaugh was charged with insurance

fraud, conspiracy to commit insurance fraud and filing a false police report. >> what do we except for tomorrow? >> reporter: tomorrow we do expect them to seat an actual jury. they will have 12 jurors and six alternates. and then they are going to start with opening arguments from both sides. so this is going to be a long trial. it's supposed to last about three weeks. and it will be interesting, anderson, to see alex murdaugh's demeanor as this goes on because, as you know, he was a long-time lawyer. he has been disbarred by the state of south carolina now. he is sitting at defense table with his defense lawyers. he is conferencing with them, sharing notes with them, chewing on his glasses, paying very close attention. it will be interesting to see how he handles what is expected to be quite a long trial. >> thank you. perspective now from mark o'mara and criminal trial lawyer sara ozara.

so, mark, you heard the report laying out the accusations against murdaugh. it's extraordinary what he is being aaccuse ds of over a lengthy period of time. would that be relevant or admissible in this trial? obviously, evidence pertaining directly to the murder of his wife and son would be. a lot of the financial stuff goes way back and wouldn't -- would that be able to get into this trial? >> well, the prosecution may try to get into that because they are going to suggest that's part of his motive, which was he is going to try to defer blame to somebody else or sympathy. i think the state needs to be extraordinarily careful bringing in that much bad act evidence which is going to, i think, sort of overwhelm the jury if you start talking about all of that. that's grounds for appeal. i think the state needs to be much more careful, a tight case, get him on the circumstancetial evidence and just get them as

cleanly as they can. >> sir, don't they have to be able to bring the prosecution have to be able to bring in some of the financial allegations of financial crimes because that is the motive, they are saying, for him to kill his wife? >> anderson, motive is elective, right? it's not an element of murder or any crime, for that matter. however, will they be able to prove motive? every jury wants to know why. that's the first thing when they go into deliberation. but this is far nor prejudicial than probative. that's the test here. so i see this judge allowing some, very limited number of things, you know, maybe those things that were close in time to the murders. but not all of this. >> what about the blood splatter? the prosecution is saying that -- or court documents sigh there was blood splatter found on the shirt that alex murdaugh was wearing when he found his son or when the police came and he was with his son. >> that's interesting because

the state made a huge mistake. they hired an outside, i don't know, he was doing a science fair experiment, not a real expert, working out of his home. he destroyed the t-shirt. so it precluded the defense from being able to conduct an independent examination of the tirt and that led to this trombetta youngblood motion that the defense filed to exclude any blood splatter evidence because the defense has been deprived of the ability to do their own investigation. >> mark, we mentioned jury selection continues, is going to continue. if you were the defense attorney in this case, what would you want in the jury? i know yesterday the judge asked everybody to stand up who had, you know, knew about the case, and all the potential jurors stood up because everybody in this area knows about this case. people know about this case all around the country. >> yeah, they are going to sit a jury, even though it's difficult. those of us who do this a lot you will get a jury sat. you have to have people who are fair and impartial. what do you want? this is a circumstantial evidence case, right.

there is no direct evidence. you want engineers, people who are going to hold the state to task, analytical people, people not caught up in the emotions of what he alleged to have done, killed his very own son and wife. so you want people more analytical, maybe more educated because they will be the ones who hold the state to task and not get caught up in the emotions of the moment. >> it is, sir, when you -- i mean, when you hear some of the other evidence about financial crimes, cheating of clients of his, four people in his community over the course of many years. it would be very easy to have a jury hearing all that evidence and feel like this guy is just a jerk and an awful person. >> completely nefarious. that's why mark brought up bad acts. these are bad acts that are irrelevant to murders. these are not assaults. not violent acts, right? but it's far more prejudicial

than probative. that's the danger of allowing o all of those to come in before a jury. so, look, everybody knows the murdaughs. everybody knows what he has done. it will be hard to get a jury that doesn't know what's going on, what this guy has done. the question is being able to get one leader who leans on your side and try to pick as many other followers as you can. >> on the jury? >> on the jury. >> interesting. appreciate it. thanks so much. up next, a tale of two detectors from russia's main security service, talking on camera to cnn about the peril they faced after daring to break with vladimir putin. what they say they are doing to try to stop him. and retirement savings. withth voya, considering all your financial l choices together... can help you be better prprepared for unexpected events. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected.

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the plane in moscow. >> a cold war style defection, booking a flight to france before anyone suspected she might go. >> [interpreter] i am now in the french territory. >> complete with photographs, as well as work contracts, patient records, and references, to approve her identity to french authorities. she also brought documents she thought the west might be interested in >> [speaking non-english] [interpreter] i brought photos, audio, and video recordings, which confirms that the majority of the russian army is against the policy of the current leaders. and my own peril and risk, i was able to smuggle my -- into the fsb building twice, and was able to make some records. >> she also brought recordings of conversations with senior officials she said, to head to french intelligence. currency as she sought political asylum dmitrieva as

one of a flood of senior russians from soldiers to wagner mercenaries to fsb employees now arriving in europe. so many, that putin promised in december to promptly identify traders, spies, and saboteurs even as europe has been expelling senior russians 600 and 2022, including 400 spies, according to the head of the british intelligence agency mi5. >> [speaking non-english] >> but in an exclusive interview with cnn, former c -- fsb lieutenant -- says there are plenty of active agents left. he comes from a family of security service agents, many of its relatives now under arrest in his native dagestan. before defecting he worked for the fsb in poland. now, he's seeking asylum there. >> [interpreter] the role of the as a b -- fsb since the beginning of the war, they wanted to end the war

quickly. now in the fsb, it's every man for himself. everyone wants to escape from russia. every second fsb officer wants to run away. now, already, they understand that russia will never win this war. of course i'm afraid. i know how they work. history says that in any case, i will be killed. >> volodymyr -- says he's helped at least 20 senior russian insiders escape since the war in ukraine began. the exiled russian human rights activist is on moscow's list of wanted criminals, and insist on meeting and in a public place. in september french police opened an investigation into a possible assassination attempt at his home. >> i saw my wife and children, who spent more than 30 minutes on the floor, and the children was very scared. and my wife, like, come like mother to protect them because of the risk of being shot. in this moment, it was very

difficult. >> here is one part. >> oh such can said he's help those fleeing and the documents they bring that make him a target. like the images he shows us on his computer of what he says are russian surveillance radar positions aimed at europe, dating back to 2017. given to him, osechkin says, by a three star general now in exile. >> putin, why he want to kill me he very scared there is a lot of people who now work in the putin system but they want to find the way together with west with with europe, with united states and to stop putin when osechkin leaves us, it's what some of the policeman in september that ensures security day and night maria, like many of the russians arriving as no such protection and little money left but she agreed to

speak to us hoping for a better future in the west >> and melissa bell joins us now this is just extraordinary what they're doing how to western security services make sure some of these defectors are not intelligent agents sent by the kremlin with either false information or to try and get in with other defectors, or you know anti russian groups >>,, -- there's been so many examples across europe, but also countries neighboring russia of people who fled, claiming to be seeking genuine asylum, who turned out to be still working for the fsb. in fact, vladimir osechkin that you saw there in that report was tricked by one nearly a few months ago a man claiming to needs help who turned out to be said by moscow just to simply be close to him. and because of that you're seeing more and more of those neighboring countries in europe, european countries, simply deciding that they will not be giving visas to those trying to flee. now, that leaves many russians trying to get out and a very difficult position you might

say, why have any sympathy for the people who have been working inside the regime of vladimir putin but that suspicion also affects so many other russians russians who come from much lower down the ladder. journalist, for instance, who try to get out since the war began simply because their lives are going to get so much harder as a result of it. and what they find themselves is in positions where if they managed to get to europe they have no more access to their families, who have been left behind and might well be in danger. no access to their bank accounts. facing that deep-seated suspicion about who they are and what they're doing and why they may be in europe with very little prospect of getting asylum. and of course the fear that they simply will be sent back to a country where they will not be treated tenderly anderson. melissa bell thank you, fascinating report. the news continue cnn tonight with laura coates continues, right after a short break .

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