>> well, good evening everyone. i'm laura coates and this is cnn tonight. in what could be the next big thing that could changes everything, like your smartphone did 15 years ago. well, there might be an answer. it's the rise of artificial intelligence. you may have heard of chatgpt.

you may have thought it was a typo when you actually saw it on your screen but it's not it's called chatgpt. but the question is, what exactly is it? well, i wasn't sure how to explain it myself so you know what, i went right to the source. chatgpt, briefly describe yourself for a tv audience here's what they came up with, quote, chatgpt it's a sophisticated computer program that uses artificial intelligence to understand and generate human-like language. it can answer questions, write stories, and even engage in conversation. it's been trained on a massive amount of text data, so it's able to understand and respond to a wide range of topics and questions. it's like having a very knowledgeable and well-spoken personal assistant available 24 7 to help with anything you need. did you get all of that? that's according to chatgpt. tonight, we're going to talk all about artificial intelligence, the good, the bad,

the pretty cool, and what it could actually mean in your future. plus, is there anybody out there who doesn't have any classified documents lying around? i mean, i joke about the number of glass houses that are popping up in washington, d. c.. but you've really got to wonder what's going on when the president of the united states and the former president of the united states and his former vice president of the united states have all been found to have classified documents in places where they should not. the question, really, is what happens now? there is an awful lot going on tonight. but i want to get right to artificial intelligence and what it could mean for our future. joining me now, axios tech reporter ashley gold. also, former democratic presidential candidate andrew yang, founder of the forward party. i'm glad that you're both here tonight, just thinking about this. and to be honest, i actually, when i first saw it, thought, oh, i might be typing this in

wrong, what's happening, what's going on here? chatgpt, it says it can do a whole lot. it described itself just now. but the possibilities really are expansive here. talk to me about those possibilities, and what it could really do. >> so, there's opportunities here in academia, for school, for workers, for writers, for people doing research, for people trying to gather data, for companies to become more efficient. it really is endless what this prompting do. >> you know, and again, it's chatgpt, the diction is important here. i was thinking it once chat gbt, let me go to you on this, andrew. because it's really important. what are people -- hinking about how this all works. and the idea of what this could mean for so many people. i do wonder for you, what would you tell people that they need to know about ai? >> well, you're talking about a

bot that can produce high school, even college level essays in the blink of an eye. it will transform the way a lot of our schools function and operate. colleges already are dealing with students who are turning in ai generated essays. but there are 2 million americans right now that work in call centers, make about $17 an hour. this technology will be able to replace them in very, very short order. someone described chatgpt as the model t of ai, where it's the first generally useful application. but you're going to go from a model t to a lamborghini in a matter of months or weeks, instead of years. so i think people should really be digging into what this is going to mean for schools, the workforce, and even our democracy. >> you know what, i had to do a little research and ask what chatgpt might think andrew yang

might say in reaction to that very question. so, i'm going to tell the audience what chatgpt said you would answer that question, how they said it. >> wow. >> i mean, it's technology after all. as andrew yang, i would stress the importance of understanding the potential impact of artificial intelligence on the job market. uh huh? and they need to prepare for this displacement of certain jobs by automation. and i would also highlight the importance of investing in training and education programs to help people acquire the skills necessary to thrive in this economy. in addition, i would emphasize the importance of having a thoughtful and proactive approach to the ethical and societal implications of ai. what do you think of them getting inside your head? >> you know, i think it's pretty good. i'd say it's a high school or college level andrew yang answer. >> [laughter] >> the fact is though, government-funded retraining programs tend to have very low

reported success rates. it's more of a talking point than a real policy. this stuff is speeding up. its operating much more quickly than most people can really even conceive of. and i badly wished that our leaders were reckoning with what this is going to mean. i hope that chatgpt wakes up the american people to the fact that ai is no longer science fiction, it's here and now. >> and you know who here's, ashley as well. i want to ask you about it. how is this working? how is this particular ai getting the information? is it synthesizing from the internet exclusively? is it in present day time, constantly reflective, is it able to hypothesize? how does actually work? >> no, it's not quite that sophisticated. it can't hypothesize, it can't gather data from the internet in realtime. and we just reported yesterday in axios that the data set it pulls from actually ended in 2021. so, this is not realtime web page data it's pulling from. so, it is quite limited in that way.

it's trained on a certain number of websites. and it sort of ends there. that doesn't mean it can't get more sophisticated in the future. but that's what we're dealing with right now. >> should there be, and are their concerns right now, about the idea that this could replace, i mean, even a skilled worker, an unskilled worker, as they say, is there concern about this having an impact negatively? >> absolutely, there's the concern. what we've been talking about in my news room is that there is a real fear this could replace creative jobs like creating graphics, creating illustrations for a website or company, or even generating articles. we just saw last week, cnet announced it was not going to have ai-generated articles anymore because many of them had errors. this is the problem of the generative text. it puts forth very readable, casual, clear stories and text. but that doesn't mean it's all true. it's not fact checking the stuff in realtime.

>> essentially because, andrew, we asked the technology would be able to write under the notion that was creative, to write a short scene from a screenplay about scientists discovering a new airborne pathogen that could cause a global pandemic. that was essentially the instruction. look what it turned out and had. it really provided and then a screenplay on that particular short scene. the fade in, the research lab, et cetera. what you're actually looking at. it's pretty cool thing that we're seeing a team of scientists in their lab coats and what they're doing, really setting the scene. so -- picture it, science lab modern-day, whatever that might be. although not in sicily. and you've got all the dialogue happening right there. so, you have sort of a wonder, that's really cool that this can work this way. but are there is some harmful aspects to this, especially on the point that ashley raised, that say it's not in the creative space of a screenplay, say it's instead an expectation that is providing truthful factual information in

realtime. if it's not fact-checking, or maybe appreciating even the human nuance of certain, i don't know, sarcasm or satire or misinformation, can it be trusted? >> well, to ashley's point, ai can generate artistic creations like paintings, like pieces of music. and 44% of american jobs are considered either repetitive cognitive or repetitive manual. so, this technology is going to replace a lot of white collar jobs. people think about automation as a blue collar phenomena. we blasted away 4 million manufacturing jobs in this country, which by the way, in my view, lead to trump-ism and the depletion of opportunities in the midwest in the south. and now, it's coming for white collar jobs. i mean, we need to wake up. i'm so glad you're covering the story in a way that you are, laura, because when i was running for president on this a, lot of people looked up and said, hey, it's x years away. i mean, it's 2023. and it's here with us.

you can go to chatgpt and use it for yourself. >> it is true. and thank you for that, and thinking about the way in which, you know, what we think is really on the horizon suddenly becomes right in front of us. and on that point, i want to turn to how this might be used in sort of the knowledge space, so to speak. and a sign of just how advanced artificial intelligence actually becomes. chatgpt actually passed the mba exam given by a wharton professor. and guess what, that professor joins us now. he's christian terwiesch from the wharton school at the university of pennsylvania. professor, i'm very glad you're here right now. because we're thinking about the ways this could be used, and how it might be able to be thought of not just an automation of blue-collar workers, but a category sort of known as the knowledge workers or the knowledge based employment. talk to me about what happened when the chatgpt took a mba exam at wharton, no less. >> first of all, thank you for

having me on the show, laura. over the holidays, i ran this experiment. my kids were super interested in ai, one was playing around with -- image generation technology, the other was playing with chatgpt. so, the question came up, can this thing pass the exam at wharton? so what we did it, was feed it five of my exam questions. and it did super well. it did amazingly well on three of the five questions. for two of the five questions, it needed a human hint. but one of them was struggling -- but i was in awe in terms of the quality of the answer, the writing, there was some humor in it, it wa transparent. and again, absolutely cool stuff. >> what do you mean, it needed a human hint? did not appreciate the nuance of a statement, or needed more data of some kind, what did that feel like? >> so, really interesting. on the tougher questions, it struggled. but then i gave it a hint.

i said, remember this and use this tool. and it actually picked up the hint, just like if a student struggling in class would. and it improved the answer. and in one case, got the answer right after two hints. you have to know laura, it's really bad with math. there's a real irony to that, in the sense it's a computer. but it's bad at math -- great with humor, great with words. but for whatever reason, it struggles with math. . >> that is fascinating to think about. that it has an achilles heel, just like, perhaps, human intellect as well. but you know, i'm sure a lot of people in academia are looking at this, not just from the idea of the fascination, but they're the honor code violation prospects that could happen all across the country. and -- we entered in and asked, write the first paragraph of a college essay application for a student applying to princeton. it actually wrote it.

and it began talking about talking about being on the cusp of adulthood and contemplate the future, can't help but reflect the opportunities and experience that shaped me into the person i am today. and truth be told, professor, this looks a lot like my own essay for princeton university, and i didn't have chatgpt, so it was legit back then. however, this is a real risk for many people, to think, well, this is a sophisticated version of cliffs notes. this is the open book exam. you've got technology, you can ask people, is that a concern that this will be used in a nefarious way, to cheat the system? >> absolutely, and i think any institution from k-12 to the business school professionals, medical schools, law schools, are concerned about this at the moment. so, i think one thing we have to ban it in certain cases. when you're becoming a -- , you don't want your doctor to have passed the test with the

help of a ai bot. but on the other hand, i think there's some amazing opportunities for us to have our students actually get learning experience. it transforms the classrooms, to engage our students more. and so, i think the cheating question is the real one. it absolutely needs to be banned under certain circumstances. but i really want us to think bigger than that. at the end of the day, what we did, was end up in a place where we were last year. we have not taken advantage of a huge opportunity. >> you know, just thinking about the idea of what could happen, if only we confined ourselves with the risk of progress, we probably would not take any steps in any direction. thank you, professor. thank you so much. and before we go, i want to break, bring andrew back into the conversation. andrew, i would be remiss if i didn't point out that earlier tonight i was watching my colleague and friend erin burnett. and your wife was actually on the program. and she was speaking. and her reaction to the conviction of her ob/gyn, who victimized her and many others with sexual assault and beyond. and i just wanted to say, that i really commend her bravery.

i commend when she spoke up in the first instance, and the impact that she has had even now. i hope that you know we're all thinking of your family. >> well, thank you, laura. i am so proud of lynn. and so glad for the hundreds of women who saw justice served today, with a conviction of a serial predator in the form of dr. hadden and i also want to extend our gratitude to dana bash and erin burnett and the team at cnn who helped bring the story to light. in a really sensitive way that helped my family get through a very difficult time. so, thank you all. >> your family, and so many others. i appreciate you coming on. thank you. and our best to evelyn. >> i'll let her know. >> thank you. we'll be right back. your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need! whoo! we gotta go again. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty liberty liberty♪

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officeholders are digging through their files right now as we speak. i mean, looking for any classified documents where they are not supposed to be the latest discovery, about a dozen documents marked as classified at former vice president mike pence's indiana home. that, after more than 100 classified documents were found at former president trump's mar-a-lago beach club. and the drip, drip, drip of documents found at president biden's one-time washington office and at his home in wilmington. here to talk about all of, this cnn senior political commentator and former congressman adam kinzinger. i'm glad you're here, congressman. you know, there are a lot of people living in class houses tonight in washington, d. c., and out of the beltway, who are wondering, is my previous statement going to age well? in fact, if you listen to this, you had the former vice president on abc and also cbs talking about classified documents. listen to what he had to say. >> let me ask you as we sit here in your home office in indiana did you take any classified documents with you

from the white house i did not. >> our staff reviewed all of the materials in our office and in our residence to ensure that there were no classified materials that left the white house, or remained in our possession. and i remain confident that that was done in a thorough and careful way. clearly in the waning days of the trump pence administration, that process was not properly executed by staff around the president of the united states. >> what's your reaction to the turn of events now. >> well, first up he gets credit for, i guess, deciding to do a surge, coming forward the classified documents. so, it's become obvious that there is a problem with vice

presidents and presidents somehow being able to take the stuff with them. i want to say a quick aside, in the senate and the house, i don't know how to actually be possible at all for a senator or house member to do this. because everything is very tightly controlled. if you look at classified documents, for instance, they come in a folder. you have people watching to make sure if you take notes, they are acceptable notes. usually, you can't take those with you. and that you return those documents. but evidently for a president and vice president, it's a little more loose. and that's somewhat understandable, because i'm sure the entire white house, or the residence of the white house, is a skiff, a protected area where you can look at these documents. but we have a problem here, and we certainly need to get our hands around this. >> i mean, it's true. thinking about it, talking about the modern presidency and thinking about where and how these documents are tracked and

where they ought to be. let's just say, i mean, we see this problem now happening more often than anyone would like to admit perhaps. our national security implications obviously top of mind. we're talking about classified documents. but we don't yet know what these documents are. we don't know what they are really. we talk about the documents found in mar-a-lago, let alone wilmington, the biden penn center, or what's happening in indiana. are we at a disadvantage to really assess what's happened here, unless we know what's in those documents? which by the way, we may never know, because they're classified and they have designations like that. >> yeah, so, look, i think generally anything that's marked secret or top secret you can assume, if that gets out, it creates damage. i think we do have a problem with over classification to an extent. but i think specific documents, so, i don't know, what was gotten in all these gentlemen's residences, but if something that you look at may not be

harmful, just in what you read. i read some top secret stuff that, quite honestly, it's stuff you can find in the news. but the thing that is classified and the reason it's classified is because it can imply sources and methods to get that information, which our adversaries, if they put this together, they can maybe figure out who the mole is or anything else. so, yeah, if you look at what's going on, i don't think we'll ever necessarily--may know the subjects. but we're not going to know what's in those documents. but it would create real harm if that got out. and again, i think with somebody like a mike pence, you can look and say he gets credit for proactively searching. but we've got a real problem here. >> i mean, he's getting a lot more than credit these days. a lot of comparisons and parallels being drawn and contrasts being drawn, even when they aren't obvious contrasts to draw. for example, cnn obtained the letter sent on behalf of pence to the archives, saying pence was unaware of the documents. and it really kind of followed a great deal of what we saw already from the biden team, where lawyers were looking at

documents at a home, looking through boxes, saw a classification designation, closed it, alerted the archives, the doj was talked to, and then everything proceeds from then. and yet, you have the house oversight chairman, james comer, who's drawing a distinction. here's what he had to say. he said former vice president mike pence reached out today about classified documents found at his home in indiana. he has agreed to fully cooperate with congressional oversight. and any questions we have about the matter. former vice president pence's transparency stands in stark contrast to biden white house staff, who continue to withhold information from congress and the american people. is there truly a distinction between how the two have conducted themselves, save the press briefings, but truly the reaction to the presence of documents? >> yes, so this is what bothers

me about politics, honestly, is that people will take a position not based on what's right, not based on merit, but based on whose team. every member of congress, left or right, republican or, democrat, needs to be on the same standard when it comes to joe biden and mike pence. more than likely, everything we're hearing is that was basically the same way of going about it. it doesn't mean it was right. the difference is, with donald trump, he was alerted to this and continued to resist turning these over. that is very different than being alerted to this and proactively getting these turned over. so, there may be some differences here. but again, i would encourage the media, i would encourage citizens, constituents, to look at your member of congress and say are you being consistent? we need to elect consistency. that's what we're missing in this country, is the commitment to a standard of truth and consistency. >> a really important point. and just for those out there wondering, clinton, bush, obama,

all turned over the classified documents, they're reading the writing on the wall, they don't want to live in a glass house either. we'll see what else comes of this. thank you for being here tonight. >> thank you. >> well, in another matter, decisions on charges, well, appear to be imminent. that's the word that was chosen and spoken to a court of law today. and multiple people could be facing those imminent charges. we will tell you what fulton county d. a. is saying about her investigation into trump and others attempts to overturn the election, next.

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>> fulton county georgia state attorney fani willis says her decision is, quote, imminent. imminent on possible charges against former president trump and others for efforts to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. the final report is now complete from the special grand jury that was empaneled in this very matter. and the da is suggesting the recommended multiple indictments. but she argued in court today that that report should not be made public, at least for now.

>> what the state does not want to see happen, and don't think there's any way the court would be able to guarantee, is if that report was released, there somehow could be arguments made that it impacts the right for later individuals, multiple, to get a fair trial, to have a fair hearing, to be able to be tried in this jurisdiction. the list can go on and on. >> i know cnn is actually part of the group of media organizations asking for that report to be made public. joining me now, cnn legal analysis elliott williams, cnn political commentator karen finney, who by the way, did work on the 2020 election in georgia, and national review senior editor ramesh ponnuru, he's joining us as well. i want to dig in. and we begin with you, elliott, as a resident lawyer on this conversation. is the da in fulton county right to say, look, this report ought not to be made public as of yet.

keep in mind, the special grand jury is not a traditional jury that can return indictments quite yet, right. >> the question is what do you mean by right, is she right as a member of the public, where we have some entitlement as a member of the public to know what law enforcement and others are doing? or as a prosecutor, who doesn't want her case screwed up. and as a prosecutor, you absolutely would never want facts of your investigation getting out for a couple reasons. one, you don't want to taint the jury pool. you don't want people reading about and start to mull over evidence if they might be picked for jury at some point. >> i've had that argument made against them. >> right, against them, all the above. and the big thing is you don't want to out innocent people who might be named but not charged with crimes. even former presidents of the united states who may not be popular in a jurisdiction are entitled to the presumption of innocence. you don't want to report out there if you're a prosecutor dragging them through the mud. so for lots of reasons as a prosecutor, the safe move, not even redacted, you don't want that out in the public. >> karen, let's look at the

list of people. more than 75 people were interviewed by this grand jury in georgia. look at the list of people who we know of. i mean, this is quite a list. people who have had some overlap, by the way, with the january 6th committee. cassidy hutchinson, for example, others are former trump attorneys like jenna ellis, you've got the secretary of state in georgia, brad raffensperger, a senator, lindsey graham, governor brian kemp, giuliani, just to name a few people. what is your reaction to the fact that we're not going to yet know the basis of this report, what's in it, knowing that these are some of the key figures who even did testify? >> we do not need to know right now. i think it's more important protect the case for many reasons, not the least of which is the unprecedented nature of what this case is about. we're talking about a sitting president of the united states of america trying to thwart the result of a legal, fair election. so, it is incumbent that every single step of the way, and the

attorney knows, she has to come correct and have it right and cannot have any pieces hanging out there. particularly, the last thing i would say, look at what trump did in regard to the mar-a-lago documents. he's the one who leaked to the public that that was happening. normally, we would not have known about that, because the doj would protect that investigation. so, the likelihood, it's a tactic we know he's used before, it's a tactic others have used. so, we wouldn't want anyone to, all of the things elliott just said, use the information. we don't need to have weeks of speculation about what could be the charges, what is this that or the other mean, let's let the process play itself out. let's see the documents after the charges been rendered. >> and she did same plural, maybe others who could be charged. one group that might want to have that, you know, prudence that karen is speaking about, to let the process unfold, is the person who at the end of

the process might actually be implicated and indicted. how do you think this is playing politically, given of course, this was the case, this is the county, this is the instance where many believed trump and his allies might be the most vulnerable, if there is any legal exposure, which obviously translates politically? >> yeah, i think that it doesn't have a political impact until you actually have the indictments and they are public. and then, you know, obviously, it depends on what facts were talking about, what kinds of charges we are actually talking about. i think that that highlights the difficulty that the judge has here. because there are multiple public interests involved here. and their intention with one another. there is a public interest in knowing as much as possible. there's a public interest in justice being done and the integrity of the criminal justice system being protected and that -- it makes sense that the press, including cnn, is asking for immediate disclosure of everything now. that's what the pressure -- that's what we do in the press.

but it's not the only consideration in front of a judge. >> i think we are just called nosy. [laughter] i'll deal with it, it's okay. i agree, but i'll think about it. but also georgia, karen. georgia is unique in a number of facets. especially because it is the site were conversations -- the so-called big lie were on full display with brad raffensperger and the pressure campaign. we heard this infamous telephone call of finding a certain number of votes. but it's also the state that seemed to have been as resistant to the big lie being successful, not in legislation, they certainly legislate things with a solution turn to the problem, but is georgia politically unique in the way that this is being thought of? >> no, what i would say is that raffensperger and kemp did a good job of not letting the big lie or their association with trump be used against them the way we saw in other states and other parts of the country. they got, i think, a little more credit than they should

have, frankly, around that it's great that they actually did their jobs in 2020 and didn't -- i think we have to remember that, they did what they were supposed to do by saying, no, we're not just going to go find you 11,000 votes. >> you mean the bar has been set too low? >> my mother used to say you don't get credit for doing what you're supposed to. >> but in a world, sadly though i'm not gonna disparage your mother, she's right, i'm on her side. but the idea that in a world where we have become accustomed to people not doing the right thing are not doing what they're being pressured, you know, you do have heroes among the most basic moments. but we're gonna talk more on this point and more. everyone stay with us. ron desantis, the governor of florida, seeming to propose what would frankly be a major change in death penalty trials. whatever side you may be on on the issue of the death penalty, you're going to want to hear this conversation. and it's next. all across the country, people are working hard to build a better future.

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>> the florida governor ron desantis was at a sheriff's events just yesterday, using the life sentence of the parkland shooter to suggest that florida should change the requirement that juries have to be unanimous when trying to seek the death penalty. >> it's one thing to say, yeah, obviously a majority of the jury has to, maybe a supermajority. but one person to be able to veto that. and the thing about it is there is certain crimes where any punishment other than that just doesn't fit the crime. fine to have a supermajority, but you can't just say one person, so, maybe eight out of 12 have to agree or something. but we can't be in a situation where one person can just derail this. >> back with me now, elliott williams, karen finney, and ramesh ponnuru.

the idea of one person being able to derail it. for most americans, they are accustomed to the notion that you must have a unanimous jury to convict. or you have the famous norman rockwell painting of the holdout, the woman at the end with her arms crossed. and everyone is pleading with her to change her mind. and some would look at the idea of having that jury system as what is expected in our system of justice, that one person very well could have that opinion. what do you make of the governor's statement, using for example, parkland, obviously very, very difficult and tragic scenario. and led to the death of too many, far too many, even one would have been too many. high school students and teachers at the school at marjory stoneman douglas high. what do you make of this statement of him? >> right, reportedly there were three jurors in that case who did not want to impose the death penalty.

i think there's a pretty widespread sentiment, particularly in florida, in favor of the death penalty in that case. and so, i wouldn't be surprised if governor desantis found that he had a lot of support on this. it's also worth noting for context that this would be a step back towards the pre-2016 status quo in florida, where simple majorities could impose the death penalty. now i myself, i'm against the death penalty. i think it should legislatively be abolished throughout the united states. but you know, i'm distinctly in the minority of american opinion on that subject. and i think people might underestimate the political appeal of this. and frankly, it's not crazy to think that a supermajority ought to be sufficient in these cases. >> let's say you really are the minority. i also happened to oppose the death penalty, and as a prosecutor, intentionally did not prosecute in any jurisdiction that had that as a available penalty. but the gallup poll, most recently in november 2022, 55% of people support the death penalty for convicted murderers. then there was a poll as to the

deterrent aspect of it. and the pew research center survey from april 2021 said that the -- they asked if the death penalty deters criminals. 63% said no, it does not. and i think actually is there a risk that innocent people might be executed, here's what the pew research center found. they said there is some risk, 78%, some risk that an innocent person could be executed. and by the way, not for nothing, the attorney general of the united states, merrick garland, in his confirmation hearing, remember, this is somebody who was the prosecutor in the oklahoma city bombings, that i believe led to the death penalty as well being an available sentence, he said this at his own hearing. >> -- the death penalty at that time for mr. mcveigh, in that individual case. i don't have any regret. but i have developed concerns about the death penalty in the 20 some years since then. and i --

the sources of my concern are issues of exonerations, of people who have been convicted of sort of arbitraryness randomness of its application, because of how seldom it's applied. and because of its disparate impact on black americans and members of other communities of color. >> and obviously, that led in part to his conversation about there being a moratorium on the death penalty in the federal executions. what is your take on this idea of the governor talking about -- and again, the parkland shooter obviously, this is the kind of case where people were very vehemently invested in ensuring he was brought to justice. and then a fork in the road became what that would mean at sentencing. >> sure, and i've a lot of thoughts on this, because like the attorney general, i too have prosecuted a capital prosecution. and like the attorney general, look, we've got to have a moratorium at the federal level. states ought to just legislate

it out because of the profound risk of an error. and i can walk through all of these steps in the process where this is an incredibly problematic way of administering justice. with respect to parkland, and respect to the general argument that, while the victims deserve this form of justice. and look, i've dealt with crime victims before, i know you have as well, tried to protect their rights to the greatest extent possible. if you were to ask people, would you be okay with a innocent person dying to secure justice in this case, i think most people would say, look, i want justice. but you want to kill ramesh, because of the fact that, would that provide justice? >> i don't like this hypothetical. >> i know, you're the first person i thought of. >> but i think what's important here is florida, as of 2021, has the most number of exonerated individuals from death row. and that's been 30 individuals, a majority, three quarters

black and brown. so, this also connects to criminal justice reform and the application of justice. that is not something that i think ron desantis is thinking about. this felt more like a comment from a man who's running for president in a state where he said woke goes to die. and is more thinking about, sort of, toughness, law and order, and not this more nuanced conversation. and i'll just say it, in case the -- so i don't get killed on twitter, which is, obviously parkland was horrendous. obviously, they got the right person. obviously it is, you know, your feelings about that. you still have to balance what does justice mean in this country? and we know it's not applied evenly. >> and it's a really good point. think about the countries around the world. all of our peers have abolished their death penalty, when we think who our allies and peers that we regard as intellectual allies in this. china, saudi arabia, singapore, if that's the company we want to be in for eternity, then we

have it. make that choice. but there's a shrinking number of american allies that -- >> a lot of these countries did it judicially. and our federal judiciary started down that road and pulled back. >> to be clear everyone, governor desantis was talk about the number of jurors actually necessary to have this as a sentence, not the more broad question about whether the death penalty in itself should be available. tens of thousands of people across texas are without power tonight. we will show you the damage a tornado outbreak has caused so far. stay with us. you definitely know. when he wants your attention, he makes it clear. when he wants to be left alone, he makes it obvious. but if your cat has oa pain, also known as osteoarthritis pain,

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this just in to cnn at this very hour. new and disturbing details on the death of tyre nichols, three