a shooting that left 11 people dead. >> president biden. >> i wanted to call to see how you're doing, and thank you for taking such incredible action in the face of danger. i don't think you understand just how much you've done for so many people who are never going to know you. but i want them to know more about you. >> i'm still practicing, you know, what i did and what i experienced. for you to call, that's just so comforting for me. >> well, you have my respect. you are america, pal. you are who we are. >> tsay's actions likely led authorities to the gunman, and a law enforcement official tells cnn they were able to trace the weapon to the suspect, giving his name and description. thank you so much for joining us. "ac 360" begins right now. five men who once took a solemn oath to uphold the law are now five alleged murders.

john berman here in for anderson. take a look. there they are. both back when they wore memphis police department uniforms, and now in their booking photos. justin smith, emmett martin iii, desmond mills jr., demetrius haley all five now ex-cops charged today with killing tyre nichols, who died three days after a traffic stop and violent arrest on the 7th of this month. all five facing identical counts, official oppression, unauthorized exercise of official power, aggravated kidnapping while possessing a weapon, aggravated kidnapping causing bodily injury, aggravated assault, and second-degree murder. today in addition to the charges, we learn more about what kind of officers they were, along with details from the timeline of tyre nichols' deadly encounter with them, which tennessee's top state law enforcement official says are appalling to him. sadly, there will be more

tomorrow when video described in excruciating terms by those who have seen it is made public. cnn's sara sidner is in memphis tonight with all the latest on that, but also, a closer look at who tyre nichols was and the life he lived. sara, first, what's the reaction in the city now that charges have been filed against the officers? >> i can sum that up in two words. prayerful and peaceful. we're at a skate park tonight. this is a place skate park anywhere that tyre nichols loved. it's where he felt the most free. but we have now heard that one of the officers is free, free on bond, paying a $250,000 bond. there are five total officers, all charged with seven major crimes. in memphis, candles burn for a life snuffed out, the life of 29-year-old tyre nichols being

remembered where friends say he felt the most free, a skate park. 12 years ago, nichols, seen here doing what he loved. 12 years later, he ended up dead, officials say beaten by five men sworn to protect and serve. >> the grand jury returned indictments against all five with the same charges. while each of the five individuals played a different role in the incident in question, the actions of all of them resulted in the death of tyre nichols, and they are all responsible. >> reporter: justin smith. >> tad darius bean, desmond mills and emmitt martin iii were all fired from the memphis police department and now stand charged with seven crimes -- second-degree murder, two counts of aggravated assault, two counts of aggravated kidnapping, official misconduct, and official oppression. and there is police body cam and sky camera video showing it all, something police will soon release to the public.

>> i'm grieved. frankly, i'm shocked. i'm sickened by what i saw. what happened here does not at all reflect proper policing. this was wrong. this was criminal. >> reporter: attorneys for two of the former officers responded to the tbi's damning statement. >> when you heard that, what did you think? and have your clients heard all of the charges against them? >> i felt i wish i had seen the video so i could evaluate what he said. >> to say things like that when you have a tinderbox that we're all concerned about, i have questions about whether those are the right words to use, whether this was the right timing, and whether the government should be saying those things about people who are innocent until proven guilty when you know that's going to be broadcast to potential jurors. >> reporter: but nichols' family wants people to know about more about tyre nichols than how he died.

>> nobody's perfect, okay. nobody. but he was damn near. my son was a beautiful soul, and he touched everyone. >> reporter: nichols had his mama's name tattooed on his arm. he wasn't just her beautiful boy, he was also a father who loved having fun. his friend, who knew him in sacramento, told a local newspaper "he had such a free spirit, and skating gave him his wings." he worked at fed ex, but has other dreams, photography. in his own words, he posted people have a story to tell. why not capture it. instead of doing the norm and writing it down and speaking it. it turns out what led to his death was captured on camera. >> sara sidner is back with us. sara, you're at a skate park because we've all learn that's something tyre nichols loved to do. what more have you been able to learn about him? >> you know, one of his friends told us that he was simply a

free spirit. someone who did not conform to the stereotypes that black men have been put under in this country. someone who was just someone who enjoyed having fun. and one of the places he really loved to hang out was a skate park, wherever he could find one. we also know that he had a vice that many of us have. he liked to go to starbucks. that was his calm place. he made friends there as well. and they all said this guy was just a really great gentleman. >> with a tattoo of his mother. sara sidner, thank you so much for being with us. keep us posted. now antonio ramminucci. he is one of the attorneys representing tyre nichols's family. thank you so much for being with us. i'm sorry it is under these circumstances. how is mr. nichols' family doing now that the officers have been indicted? >> well, clearly, they wanted the utmost absolute charges.

and i think with what we see today, they're going get that. john, i don't know the last time, if ever, i've seen a uniformed police officer under the color of law being charged with kidnapping. we have to take that in and really soak that for a moment and understand the gravity of what happened here to tyre. >> why does that have particular gravity to you, the kidnapping charge? >> well, you know, look, i've been thinking of all different ways to describe what happened on that video since it hasn't been released yet. and here is another way for me to describe it, which may give you some context. it was an mma fight, except there was only one side that was mma. you know, tyre was helpless. he was defenseless. he was restrained. and that's why you're seeing the types of charges that you're seeing here from second-degree murder to obstruction to aggravated assault to kidnapping, because he was literally, his freedom was taken

away from him because he didn't do anything wrong. the proportionality of what happened here was so askew that it only warranted the highest level of charges. >> you just said it was like a one-sided mma fight. you also describe it as mr. nichols being treated like a human pinata. those were your words. do you think memphis, the community there, is prepared to see this video, which you have seen? >> they're going to have to be prepared, john. i think one way to prepare them is for us to be able to describe it so hopefully when they do see it, especially along with the charges, that there is peace. that is the goal. should their voices be heard? absolutely. there is no doubt about that. but there should be anything but peace in the streets? correct. that's what we're looking for. >> what do you know about the traffic stop that took place that led up to this? do you even know why he was stopped? >> no, we really don't.

and that's not anything that i'm saying that's been withheld from us. but we don't know yet. we know that the police have said that this was a traffic stop. but we don't know more than that. and quite frankly, i have to tell you, right now, i don't know that it's a justification that they're saying it was traffic stop. because we know that the saturation and suppression units do use a pretext to stop in order to carry out this wolf gang-like mentality, this wolfpack mentality of policing. >> you have no specific knowledge that that's what happened here. you're suggesting, though, it's a s a possibility? >> it's only a possibility, that's correct. >> i understand the preliminary results of an autopsy commissioned by you and attorney ben crump and the family, those results are in. what do you know at this point about those results? >> so here's what i can tell you about those results. the results indicate that what we saw in the video are consistent with the a severe

beating. and our independent medical examiner has authorized us to quote that. the injuries are consistent with a severe beating. meaning that the hemorrhage that was found was so deep that it could only be caused by blunt force trauma, which again is consistent with a severe beating. >> i know you've got a lot on your plate, as does the family. but lastly, does the family at this point intend to sue the city of memphis? >> well, i think a lawsuit is clearly on the horizon. i'm not going to tell you when that's going happen. we have to complete our investigation. and i'm hoping that the productive meeting that we had with the fbi, the doj, and the shelby county state's attorney, that we've all committed to ourselves that we're going to cooperate with each other that that continues. because we all have a job to do here, and that is to get justice for tyre. >> antonio romanucci, we do

appreciate you taking time to speak with us this evening. thank you. >> thank you. cnn's senior law enforcement analyst charles ramsey, and former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe, our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, john miller, and cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson, thank you all for being here. john miller, first to you. what stands out to you about the charges announced today? you heard tyre nichols's family, the attorney there pointing to that kidnapping charge. >> well, the kidnapping charge is certainly unusual because officers have enormous power, and that comes with responsibility. but among the powers are to use force, to take people into custody, to handcuff them. when you're charged with kidnapping when you're an onduty police officer, it means someone in the process in the prosecution determined you're not acting under the color of law anymore. that you have taken someone into custody and you are holding them

and/or beating them at the same time not acting as a police officer, which is extraordinarily unusual. and if you looked at this against similar cases. >> chief ramsey, to you. what's your take on the totality of the charges here? based on what we know about the video, none of us have seen it at this point, but based on what you've been told, do you feel these are the right charges? >> well, i mean, i haven't seen the video. so it's really hard to say. what i've been going by more than anything, chief davis, statements she has made, and dave rausch, both of whom i know very well. they aren't people who would overreact to something. now they have seen the video. and that's been their response to it. and so i'm sure that tomorrow when we finally do get a chance to look at the video, and i must say when you look at the video, and i've done hundreds of these things in terms of use of force, when you have multiple officers,

you have to take the time and try to isolate each officer individually and see what they are doing. when you look at the bail set, two are set higher than the others. i don't know if that has any meaning, but it could very well be two of the individuals are more active in this than the others. so we have to really look at this. probably over and over again before you get a real feel for it. but i have no doubt that they acted in a manner that is totally outside of any training, any policy, or anything elsewhere they would not have been charged with such serious offenses. >> the prosecutor also pointed out it is important what some of them were not doing, which is stopping what was happening. in that case they're all charged identically there. andrew mccabe, you know there is also a civil rights investigation ongoing. how might that play out given what we learned today? >> well, john, we can expect that the u.s. attorney and the fbi folks who are conducting that investigation are likely coordinating very closely with their colleagues on the

stateside. so there is sharing of information between those two parallel investigations. it's oftentimes helpful to have the federal investigation and potential federal prosecution kind of as a backup in case things don't go well with the state level prosecution. i have no reason to believe that will be the case here. but it's always helpful to have another option to move against a particular offender. and from all the reactions, as chief ramsey said, the reactions that we've seen to the video are so strong, i think there is probably good likelihood that you will see a follow-on federal prosecution for violations of tyre nichols' civil rights. >> and again, we do expect to see this video tomorrow night. tomorrow night at this time we will all have seen it. presumably. joey jackson, to you, i'm putting you on the spot, because you have not seen it yet. i'm also putting you on the spot because a defense attorney. we heard from the attorneys for the former officers today, but

not much about what a defense might be. what do you think they could use as a defense? >> i think it's going to be, again, not prejudging. we haven't seen the tape. but from all indications, it's heinous and certainly inhumane. that's what it's been described as. it's not only the tape, john, it's the autopsy. and the autopsy, the revelations of that are certainly significant with respect to the bodily injuries, et cetera. why do i say that? to your question, the defense has to be predicated upon actions that are reasonable. in the event officers defend on the grounds they were in immediate fear of death or serious injury, what specifically was he doing, mr. nichols doing that would have you in that imminent fear. the next question becomes were your actions as an officer proportionate to whatever threat was perceived. and did you act reasonably and responsibly? any type of offense is going to have to be predicated around those things. and if the actions were unreasonable, it's going to be

problematic. last point, you can look at this, and as lawyers, we're big precedent people. we base things on precedent, stare decisis. it has been decided. you look at a case like rodney king. how did they get out of that? they being the officers and defense, they were able to justify every blow with respect to the conduct of mr. king at the time. in an instance like this, particularly where there were indications, john, that he was handcuffed and didn't represent a threat, how will they overcome that? these are all things that i'm going to be looking for and analyzing when i look at the tape tomorrow. >> yeah, it sounds obvious. but their defense may very well depend on exactly what's in that video down to the minute detail. >> that's right. >> guys, stick around if you all will. we need to take a short break. next, more on what happens tomorrow night when that video of what was done to tyre nichols is made public. and later, new questions surrounding the lying congressman. what george santos told federal election officials about who is now in charge of some of his campaign money, a man who says through his lawyer hey wait a minute, i'm not.

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nicorette knows quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like... try hypnosis... or, quit cold turkey. are you kidding me? instead, start small with nicorette, which will lead to something big. we are talking tonight about the murder charges brought today against five fired memphis police officers in the death of tyre nichols in the video footage to be made public tomorrow. >> i've been policing for more than 30 years. i've devoted my live to this profession. and i'm grieved. frankly, i'm shocked. i'm sickened by what i saw.

and what we've learned through our extensive and thorough investigation. >> that's more right there from david rausch, the director of the tennessee bureau of investigation, whom you heard from at the top of the program. back now with our panel. andrew mccabe, first to you. just based on the severity of the charges alone, the tone from david rausch, which chief ramsey was speaking about earlier, what do you expect to see on the video tomorrow night, given how they're talking about it in a way what must be on that video? >> well, john, i think the first thing that jumps out to me is the consistency of the charges against all five defendants are exactly the same. so that alone tells me that you're going see a high degree of participation, of kind of guilty action by all five people involved. that's not the typical thing that we see in these videos. there is usually one primary

actor, one or two. and there are some who participate partially, and others who stand back and watch. here you have everybody charged the same way, suggests that they're all engaged in some very violent behavior. and secondly, it's just the profound reaction that we're hearing from some very experienced career law enforcement people. the police chief, the tbi chief. they're clearly affected profoundly by what they saw in that video. that just signals to me that i think it's going to be horrifying. >> so chief programsy, you were on cnn earlier this day and said that the race of the officers should not make a difference in any of this, that people should not die in police custody period. now no one could ever dispute that. but do you think the fact that all five of these officers in question are black will have an impact on how the country will process this? >> i think the community in general will be very upset once

they see this video. the race of the officers will not play a role in that. i think if anything, the swiftness in which public officials acted in this case, police chief firing them within a relatively short period of time, the shelby county state's attorney taking action today, i mean, these things are just -- i don't know if you would have seen that a year ago, at least not having officials move this quickly. i think that went a long way, or will go a long way in kind of keeping things a little calm. i am concerned about them releasing the video on a friday night at 6:00. i would have advised against that. that, in my opinion, it should have been released immediately after the state's attorney, you know, had his press conference. get it out there. but on friday night, it just to me seems like it's just not tactically very sound decision when you have to prepare for the protests that will follow. >> you know, john miller, what

than? we have been talking about the process. i want to remind people there is also tyre nichols. none of this will bring tyre nichols back. the process how it's been handled since won't do anything exactly for that family. but in terms of the timing of the police release and the charges and the video tomorrow night, how would you assess that? >> i think they've gone back and forth. i know they've gone back and forth on the dates and the consequencing between the announcement of the charges and the video. and i want was really the day before yesterday when they decided, you know, to celebrate them by 24 hours. i believe the rationale is let's get the charges to show people justice is being done. and then let's use the next 24 hours to try and do the community outbreak to get everybody on board with let the process go forward, and if you're going to protest, do so peacefully so, they can go into the weekend with some level of confidence they have a handle on it. that's interesting memphis seems

to be very calm. other city, new york, l.a., chicago, los angeles also atlanta in particular also expect protests, and they're concerned about the friday going into saturday factor that the chief mentions. >> we'll see what happens. we'll see if they're proven correct on this. joey jackson, back to the defense, because we were talking in the break about this, and i do think it's interesting. there are five officers with identical charges, former officers, facing them now. that doesn't mean all five defenses will be identical, does it? >> it doesn't mean that. but it's telling, john, that all of them were charged with the same thing. why? we have as defense lawyers a defense, and it's legally a proper defense that mere presence is not enough. what does that indicate to you? it indicates to you that when that videotape is released, it's going show conduct on behalf of every single participating officer that they were engaged in the activities that would deem to be unlawful. that those activities were acting in concert, that they

were all participants in the beating. that in and of itself is very significant. now obviously, depending on where each officer was positioned, based on the level threat if any that they felt, the conduct they engage in or the lack thereof, they'll justify what their defense. but the fact that all of them were charged with the same thing means to me that upon examination of that videotape, authorities felt that each of them was culpable, responsible, and accountable for what we're going to see, learn, and hear when we see that videotape upon release. >> joey jackson, john miller, charles ramsey, andrew mccabe, thank you all so much you've really helped understand this much, much better. just ahead, another george santos mystery. another attempt to quite literally chase down an answer. we have his latest dodge, this time about his campaign finances. plus, an in-depth look at what we do know and don't about his life. that's next.

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still more questions tonight about congressman george santos and his finances. an attorney for a wisconsin

political consultant says his client was wrongly listed as the santos campaign treasurer in new fec filings by the campaign this week. he was asked to do it, the attorney says, but his client turned down the job. and yet somehow he was listed as the committee treasurer on official papers. our man knewmanu raja tried to answers today. >> why did you list the wrong name of your treasurer on your campaign finance forms? >> i'll have a conversation with you when you become a better, honest reporter. >> i'm asking you directly. >> an honest reporter. >> why did you lie -- >> when you stop lying i'll start tucking to you. >> you were on a team in college? is that true? is that true? >> there is a lot going on there. so how did it happen? unknown. and that's not all we don't know about the congressman.

cnn's omar jimenez has more. >> what is the source of the 500 k that was initially listed as a personal loan? >> excuse me, please, you're in my way. >> reporter: on capitol hill, this is george santos's reality. >> when is it not busy? you guys keep me busy always. >> reporter: busy because it seems almost every day there are new questions about the freshman congressman's past. some stretching back more than a decade. immigration records support he was born here in queens, which is something he's said. but his path from here is what gets a little confusing at best, including where he says he went to school, or where he didn't go to school. santos claims he went to an elite prep school, horace mann in new york city. that school said, quote, there is no evidence he did. he claimed to have gotten a ged. and after claiming degrees from baruch college and nyu, santos now admits he never received a college education. as a young adult, he spent a few

years in brazil, where local prosecutors now want him to return to face charges related to a stolen checkbook in 2008. santos has denied any wrongdoing. he's also said to have spent time among rio's lgbtq community, as seen in these photos, reportedly of him in drag. >> i was not a drag queen in brazil, guys. i was young and i had fun at a festival. sue me for having a life. >> reporter: in the early 2010s, he was back in new york. over years, he lived in multiple locations in queens, at times with family, records indicate. but he was also subjected to multiple eviction proceedings, involving failure to pay rent. in 2014, a landlord accused santos and his family of not paying more than $5,000 in rent. they were eventually evicted. on one 2016 document, santos wrote "i have been mugged" as a reason he failed to get a payment in on time connected to

eviction proceedings. former roommates describe santos has someone with delusions of grandeur. and his ex-boyfriend saw it firsthand. >> what he looked for was fame and power. that's all he cared about. and he got it. he got the fame of the lie, and he got the power that he's in congress now. >> reporter: he also claimed he had worked at financial firms like citigroup and goldman sachs, later admitting he never did. in 2012, the congressman, who now identifies as gay, obtained a license to marry a woman in new york city. by 2019, public court records indicate they had divorced, just before he announced his first run for congress. >> i'm running for congress. >> reporter: he lost that race in 2020, but two years later, campaigning on what he's admitted were exaggerations about his education and work history, he was elected as a republican to represent new york's newly redrawn third district. some local republicans regret supporting hip. >> i thought he had the qualifications, and he seemed so

ambitious and successful that i was fooled by him. >> you guys need to give me space to walk. thank you. >> reporter: now that he is in congress, there are questions about how he funded his campaign. santos claims he lent his campaign more than $700,000, but his campaign has since amended his filings, raising questions about whether most of that money actually came from his personal funds. >> that raise as question that has one of two answers. either this is incredibly sloppy bookkeeping or he's saying this wasn't really his money. >> reporter: santos didn't offer any explanation for the changes. >> let's make it very clear. i don't amend anything. i don't touch any of my fec stuff, right? so don't be disingenuous and report that i did. >> cnn's omar jimenez with me. omar, look, even with all of this, and really everything in that piece is just a fraction of everything we've heard, republican leadership is still standing by him. but has their reasoning changed? >> it really hasn't.

the delineation they're making is he may have lied, but did he commit a crime? and we've heard that from house speaker kevin mccarthy, who's even punted a little bit to the constituents who actually elected him saying look, this is a duly elected congressman. my hands are tied. he did say if this rises to a legal level, that is a separate story. we will see. because there are a lot of investigations swirling right now. we've got a complaint filed against him by the campaign legal center with the federal election commission. federal prosecutors are looking into his finances. we've also got, not to mention reporters chasing him down every which way, and these are things that are happening in the u.s. brazilian authorities also want him back in the country to answer questions. so it's safe to say there are suspicions about the discrepancies we've seen at this point and discrepancies that go back years. >> all right. omar jimenez, thanks very much. i know you're going stay on this for us now. perspective from benjamin ginsburg, well-known for representing republicans on election law issues.

ben, great to see you. i've asked you a lot of questions over the last several decades. really nothing like the questions there are right now about george santos. what red flags do you see in these fec filings? >> well, from an election lawyer's perspective, what you see is the taking in of the money and what the sources were. and then how he reported it. and federal prosecutors do not have much of a sense of humor over people who take illegal campaign contributions and then file false government documents reporting their money in politics. you've also got to question about personal use. it's illegal to use campaign dollars to come to you for your own personal life. and i think the way the filings have been raises those questions as well. >> i mean, how much trouble could he be in, if he provided false information in these filings?

would it just be a slap on the wrist or worse? >> well, you know, he personally faces gravest legal jeopardy i think from his personal financial disclosure forms. because those are signed by him. they're verified by him. it's about how much money he really made, what was his and wasn't. some elected public officials have gone to jail for false filings in those complaints. in terms of his ethics, he reports he's also got some jeopardy, although the treasurer of his campaign is the person legally liable for it. but if santos caused filings, false filings to be made, then he could find himself in legal jeopardy as well. and john, i think the other sort of problems that he's got is whether he set up a straw donor system for himself, where the

money didn't really come from who he says it came, which is his own personal money. that's giving him the name of another straw donations. people have also suffered real penalties for that. >> look, and we don't know if that's what happened here, but these are the questions that are raised by the discrepancies here is the obvious question raised. ben, i alluded to the fact, i think the first campaign i covered with you was 2000. you worked on campaigns before that. in terms of the sheer volume of lies we've learned in just the last few weeks, have you ever seen anything like this? >> no, not a thing. the breadth of the contradictions that have come up in just the most basic statements he's made, the way he filed the reports, didn't really get the consent of his treasurer, all just is sort of in a league of its own. maybe congress hasn't seen

anything quite like it since james traficant in the early 2000s, if you recall that suite of corruption charges. >> beam me up, scotty. benjamin ginsburg, great to see you. that was for congress in the '80s and '90s there. thank you so much. >> thanks. coming up, the latest on the alex murdaugh trial. prosecutors lay out their case in the double murder trial of a member of one of south carolina's most powerful families, accused of killing his wife and youngest son. introducing the new sleep number climate360 smart bed. the only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms and effortlessly responds to both of you. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful eep per night. proven quality sleep. only from eep number.

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young lady who was, you know, mid 30s, couple of kids, recently went through a divorce. she had a lot of questions when she came in. i watched my mother go through being a single mom. at the end of the day, my mom raised three children, including myself. and so once the client knew that she was heard. we were able to help her move forward. your client won't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

the double murder trial of alex murdaugh continued today with police showing body cam video from the scene of the crime. murdaugh is accused of killing his wife and youngest son in an alleged effort to deflect attention away from financial crimes. with us now cnn's randi kaye who has followed this trial from the very beginning, and was in the courtroom again today. so randy, what did happen in court today? >> well, john, today was the first time we heard alex murdaugh talking to investigators at the crime scene the night of the murders.

the first three investigators who were on the scene that night testified in court their body cam was showed. it was so disturbing. they actually put up some coverings over the screens in the courts so not everybody would be able see the it, not just the jury. that's why we can't show it to you. the jury was clearly engaged with all of this. i saw one woman put a hand over her mouth it was so troubling. others were grimacing. alex murdaugh was was at the defense team crying. it was a dramatic start, and this is just the first day of witness testimony. >> he was laying facedown on the ground, a large pool of blood around him. maggie's body also laying face down on the ground, a large pool of blood around her head. >> reporter: detective daniel green was first on the scene after alex murdaugh called 911 the night of june 7th, 2021. >> this is your wife and son? okay. >> reporter: green was the state's first witness. his body cam video was played in court, but mostly shielded from

voodoo to its graphic nature. when he first saw alex murdaugh that night, he appeared to be crying. did you observe any visible blood on him? >> there was no blood that i could see. >> when is the last time you heard from him or talked to them or anything like that? >> um, it was earlier tonight. i don't know the exact time. but i left. i was probably gone an hour and a half from my mom's, and i saw them about 45 minutes before that. >> yes, sir, they've already checked them. >> they did check them? >> yes, sir. >> they're dead? >> yes, sir, that's what it looks like. >> reporter: as the detective described paul murdaugh's injuries, his father alex was in tears at the defense table. during cross-examination of greene, the defense quickly moved to make investigators look incompetent and show they may have contaminated the crime scene. >> did you have any way have your men or women put protective

gear on their feet? i saw you put gloves on. but did they put anything to insulate themselves from contaminating the scene? >> on their feet, no. >> reporter: the defense also cried to cast doubt that alex murdaugh was the only who had accessed the property that night, given the multiple sets of tire tracks. what did you do to preserve those? >> the tire tracks? nothing. >> and you certainly are not an expert in tire tracks? >> i am not. >> on the issue of blood on the defendant, prosecutors were able to get three law enforcement witnesses to say they never saw any blood on alex murdaugh. that's significant because he had told the 911 operate he touched the bodies to see if they had a pulse. >> and if you had to manipulate the body, and if you were going to try to check his pulse, be it wrists or neck, with what you saw that night, would your hands be bloody? >> if i had attempted it would have been, yes. >> reporter: the defense

countered. >> if he did get blood on his fingers or hands, were you aware that there was blood found on his shorts? >> i was not, sir. >> and randi kaye is back with us. like we said, you covered this case from the beginning. you were in court today. did anything that you heard there today surprise you? >> yeah, john, we actually heard some new information about paul murdaugh's truck. it wasn't at the home. it wasn't at the crime scene. and it turns out that the investigator testified that they sent out a bolo, a be on the lookout report looking for that truck. and it was found in hampton county on the side of the road, no explanation who put it there or why it was there. also, one really bizarre moment on that body cam, john. you hear alex murdaugh, when one of the investigators arrives on the scene in the middle of this horrific scene, he turns him very calmly and says "hey, what's up?" which was very bizarre. other than that, investigators all testified he was distraught all night. and one last thing, john. it was very interesting how

investigators treated alex murdaugh. they did not treat him like a potential suspect. he wasn't handcuffed. he was free to walk around the property. he was making phone calls. they had somebody come to the house and see him. it was a very interesting way, because we know 13 months later he was charged with the double murder, john. >> that is notable. randi kaye, thank you so much. just ahead, we're going to discuss the witness testimony we just heard in the alex murdaugh case and what impact it might have on jurors with two defense attorneys. ♪birds flyin' high, you know how i feel.♪

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let's talk more now about the testimony and body cam video evidence for the double murder trial of south carolina attorney alex murdaugh. perspective from mark romero and shan wu, who is also a former federal prosecutor. we just heard in randi kaye's

piece, the defense clearly tried to undercut the credibility of police who responded to the murder scene, asking them if they put on protective boots. they said they didn't. if you were defending alex murdaugh, would you do this? >> yes. it's a valid strategy. don't forget, we defense attorneys do not need to prove innocence. we need to prove reasonable doubt. and the way we do that, we do whatever we can to show the investigation was flawed, searches weren't warranted, booties weren't worn, all of this to tell the jury that they rushed to judgment that day calling nobody else but murdaugh and they were sloppy because lack in evidence is what leads to reasonable doubt. this is fairly standard. we're going to see this throughout the trial. >> one of the issues will be alex murdaugh's credibility, shan. you say the new evidence we heard from the body camera footage could be critical in

undermining that credibility. why? >> well, there is a question there as to what his demeanor is at the time. i believe also it came to light today that although his timeline for placing himself not there to recently might have been undermined by some audio evidence of a phone call. that's going to be really critical to the defense's decision of whether to put him on or not. i mean, usually you don't want to put your client on. and i think if the prosecution lays out a very, very strong case, then the defense may face the difficult choice of trying to put on their client. and that type of undermining his credibility could be a problem. i mean, the prosecution here has to do a double edged sword for themselves. they're stressing clearly right from the get-go the brutality of the killings, hoping in some ways that that's going to carry momentum with the jury. it can count against them too though because the defense will certainly say this is a father and a husband. this kind of brutality you wouldn't associate with that

role. >> what about that, mark? do you think that does help the defense, that a father could never do this? >> and the defense is trying the do exactly that. it is so heinous. it is so interesting, the state showing it's heinous to say, my god, he's a first degree murderer. the defense is saying, no, no, no, nobody could do that who knows this group who has a relationship with a son and a wife. no evidence of a problem with relationship. so, it's very interesting because this jury's got to decide which way of a very, very wide fence they fall on. i'll tell you, as was just said, that audio tape, if they believe that that is murdaugh's voice, therefore countervailing his alibi argument, the argument is over. if they don't, the defense may have won the day. >> that may have been one of the solid data points. other things might end up being subjective. shan, there was the issue -- this might cut both ways also. on the 911 call, he told the

operator that he ec cheed his son and wife for pulses, yet e he didn't have blood on him. do you find that to be compelling evidence? >> that's not as compelling to me. i think as they already pointed out in cross, he might have wiped it on his shorts or something. i also think that the blood evidence here is not going to carry one way or another because it's not like he wasn't there or there could have been blood being wiped off or he got blood on his shorts. i think forensically, john, it's really going to come down to not only the tape we're discussing but also to the shell casings. i think that will be very critical. >> where the shell casings were on the property, that they were there, again physical evidence here. the prosecution, though, mark, is leaning into motivation, a possible reason why he would have done this, to cover up financial crimes, they say, allegedly. how compelling do you find that? what do i need there to prove their argument?

>> well, i think even though the motif is never -- you don't see that in a statute as far as a burden of proof, every juror on that panel and most of us who are watching it want to know about the motive. you don't is are to prove motive, but you have to give this jury a reason why murdaugh did what he did, why he would slaughter two family members. and even though it's not a proof requirement, they have to come up with something compelling. and all they have really have is this shell game. take it away from my view. now my family has been slouterred. and then the idea later on they might be able to get into is this feigned suicide attempt by him. any of that, the jury is going to give a much clearer view of who murdaugh is as this potential first degree murderer. >> complicated case with more twists and turns than more

people were presexpecting. mark romero, sham wu, thanks to both of you. murder charges for the death of tyre nichols. officers charged with killing him. five former police officers indicted. video of that violent arrest to be released in less than 24 hours. we're going to speak to a former top police captain and top civil rights official on where this investigation goes next. because it penetrates dedeep into the tooth to help actively repair acid-weakened enamel. i recommend pronamel r repair to my patients.

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