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>> and i'm jim sciutto. this morning, just incredible new details from the memphis police chief describing what the nation will see today when her department releases videos of the violent january 7th arrest of 29-year-old tyre nichols. he died just days later from injuries he sustained during the police stop. some of the emmages including from police body cameras described, including by the police chief as appalling, horrific and inhumane. >> five memphis police officers have been fired and charged with a number of felonies, including second-degree murder. and in an exclusive interview this morning, with cnn's don lemon, the police chief walked through what led up to that traffic stop, the beating of tyre nichols and about the ongoing investigations into the officers responsible. >> the charges, these five officers have now been charged with second-degree murder in the

death of tyre nichols, what is your reaction to these vieh serious charges? >> well i expected serious charges. i really did. actually, the charges that were placed or at least the administrative charges were probably most severe that i've seen in my career. but they were absolutely appropriate and i knew that the next step would be in the hands of the d.a. office, so i'm not surprised. >> these are pretty extraordinary measures, i must say in all of the times that i've been covering these type of incidents to fire the officers and does that speak to what we're going to see often though videotape when it is released after 7:00 p.m. eastern. >> absolutely. i think that it also speaks to the fact that, you know, over the last several years we have all talked about police legitimacy and police reform. and i think it is really important that in instances like this, when they are serious, when they are -- they do arise to that level, where a person's

constitutional rights have been violated, their civil rights have been violated, that we act and we act swiftly. >> when did you first learn about this incident, chief? >> it was probably about 4:00 in the morning, that -- the previous day, 8:00 at night, 9:00, the incident occurred. about 4:00 in the morning i learned of incident. and it was just a strange summary of what occurred on the traffic stop. and i decided to go into the office and meet with the individuals that had information that i could take a look at it, even though at that time tyre was in the hospital. but still because he had injuries that just -- i just didn't understand. it was incomprehensible to me. we came in the office and decided to take a look at that sunday morning. and it was alarming. >> that is when -- sunday morning is when you saw the video. >> that is right. >> and when you saw it, what was

your reaction? >> um, i was outraged. i was -- it was incomprehensible to me. it was unconscionable. and i felt that i needed to do something and do something quickly. i don't think i witnessed anything of that nature in my entire career. >> really? >> really. >> that bad? >> it was that bad. >> what are we going to see then? >> you're going to see acts that defy humanity. you're going to see a disregard for life. duty of care that we're all sworn to. and a level of physical interaction that is above and beyond what is required in law

enforcement. and i'm sure that, you know as i said before, that individuals watching will feel what the family felt. and if you don't, then you're not a human being. and we all are human beings. and i think that will there be a measure of sadness as well. >> how long do these incidents go on. we heard from the district attorney yesterday and from the head of the tbi that there were two separate incidents, right. >> yes. >> how long do they go on and when -- what was the worst part of it? because it is been said that the officers became charged. >> yes, during the second incident. that they got more riled up. >> well, from the very beginning, to me they were riled up. i don't think they were as amped up as they were on the second scene. but just the stop, nature of the stop, very aggressive, loud, you

know, communication and it was -- it just rose from there. it escalated from there. mr. nichols was able to get away from these officers and they found him again at another location and at that point there was an amount of aggression that was unexplainable. in any instance, when you're apprehending someone and even when there is resistance, officers stille and regard for any individual that is in custody or they're attempting to apprehend and they're trained to do that. >> and to de-escalate. >> and to de-escalate. and that is a piece that i think is in question. but i think the escalation was there from the officers before training even needed to come in

as it relates to de-escalation. the escalation was already at a high level. >> so you're saying they do everything wrong. you think this was outside of their training, everything. >> oh, absolutely. >> you said the nature of the stop. could we talk about the nature of the stop. >> yes. >> why -- why, what was the nature, why was he stopped. >> i'm going to be honest with you about the stop itself. what was said was that there was a witnessing of what was considered reckless driving. we've looked at cameras, we've looked at body cworn cameras an even if something occurred prior to the stop, we've been unable to substantiate that at this time. >> you haven't been able to substantiate the reckless driving at all. >> no. we have not been able to substantiate the reckless driving. >> and that is why he was

supposedly stopped. >> and that is why he was supposedly stopped in the very beginning. so that was a concern. of course in an investigation, we began to look at what was the probable cause for the stop, where were the cameras, was there some evidence on the body camera, on other cameras along those thoroughfares and we've taken a pretty extensive look to determine, you know, what that probable cause was. and we have not been able to substantiate that. it doesn't mean that something didn't happen, but there is no proof. >> the cameras didn't pick up. >> the cameras didn't pick up. >> so before the incident you're looking at other surveillance cameras around the city. >> around the city. other thoroughfares. even business cameras. any video footage that we could potentially pick up to see what occurred prior to this stop. the information that we have right now of based on what we could observe, is the stop itself and the first officer

exiting his vehicle and you'll see that an owe the body worn camera and at that time the officers were already, you know, aggressive in amped up. >> so you haven't found anything that substantiates the probable cause for reckless driving. >> not at this time. >> and this was just within a couple of feet of his home. >> that is right. a few blocks away. >> he was apprehended by the scorpion unit which was launched under your leadership in 2021. >> yes. >> were they part of a street crimes unit. were they looking for some other crime other than reckless driving from tyre nichols? >> absolutely. well the scorpion unit, the acronyms, street crimes, operations to restore peace in our neighborhoods. the whole concept was based on the fact that we had an outcry because of three years of violence in the city. you know, um, numbers of violent

crimes, robberies, homicides, aggravated assaults and this is one of three teams whose primary responsibility is to reduce gun violence, to be visible in communities, and to also impact the rise in the crime. basically out of an outcry from the community, we had record numbers in 2021, 346 homicides. so this unit was pot putt together and they had great success, believe it or not, last year. it was the first year in a long time that we have reduction. >> is this an indication of the failure in that unit. >> this is an indication that there is a gap somewhere in that unit. my observation is that, you know, we have several contributing factors. we train and we retrain these officers just like specialized units around the country. these officers in working in

specialized units, you always need to make sure that the supervision is there and present. >> do you fear that they have done something like this in the past? do you have any evidence of that? >> well, we don't have evidence at this particular time. and looking at their disciplinary packages. however we're taking a deeper dive into previous arrests, previous video camera footage. we're also reached out to the iacp, who has -- who will work with the department of justice. we've asked the iacp and the department of justice to come in and take a look at our specialized units. we don't want any gaps. in any of our units. >> i've heard about you from every single person that said the buck stops with you. >> yeah. >> do you -- do you feel that you have any responsibility in this failure in this unit? >> well i can't remove myself from responsibility. and, of course, we can't always be with our officers. but it is incumbent upon us to act and have checks and balances

in place. but we have to rely on those individuals that are also in supervisory positions and commander positions, but the accountability is throughout the police department. all the way up to the chief. >> do you have any interaction with any of the people in the unit, any of the officers in this unit? >> i've met them one-on-one and had an opportunity to see them out, you know. some of them and some of the other units have received recognitions and awards because of the reductions in crime. but this particular unit, even though you meet the officers, you don't know them as personally. >> your impressions of them. >> my impressions of them, you really -- they acted just like any other normal officer. you know, respectful when they see you. but what i saw in this video was more of a group think sort of mentality. you know, a group think and no

one took a step to intercept or intervene. and that is why the charges are severe as they are. >> does this speak to officer better training for the officers? because you said it is a group think. that means that there is something with the training, there is something within the department or police department where the group think can cause something like this to happen. >> and they have good training in that regard. i think one of the gaps that, you know, have a observed since being here, is that we need more supervisors in our police department. we have what we call a span of control issue and as we have eliminated a higher rank in the police department, to create more supervisors. >> police chief there taking responsibility. after the break, you're going to hear the rest of the conversation. including the chief's judgment that what she saw on this video, videos was as bad if not worse than the 1991 beating of rodney king. more to come. to pet food.

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as we awaiting the release of video showing the violent encounter between tyre nichols and memphis police officers, we're hearing more of an exclusive interview this morning with don lemon and the memphis police chief cj davis. >> chief davis said what we will see in that video is frankly unlike anything she's seen in her career. >> it has been said that it is reminiscent perhaps worse than the rodney king video. is that your assessment. >> that is any assessment. i was in law enforcement during the rodney king incident and it's -- you know, very much aligned with that same type of behavior. >> but it is worse. >> sort of group think. i would say it is about the same if not worse. >> if not worse. >> if not worse. >> so take us through the video tonight. when it is released.

it has been said there is over an hour. there is the pole cam, they said the skycam and there is body worn camera video. what are we -- and how is it going to be distributed? will you put it on social media or sending it to the media? how is this going to be distributed. >> actually, we plan to post it on a youtube link so that it could be accessible to just about anybody who wants to access that video. and we'll be pushing that out later on this evening. the video is broken into four different sort of fragmented pieces. but they're all very relative to this -- to this incident. the initial stop, the stop here tyre's home and also body corn camera of individuals that were at that scene. >> is it -- was it released later on a friday after 6:30 central time, 7:00 eastern time,

was that we're told and i don't know if it is true, you could confirm it, so that the officers could leave the building safely, in case there were protests? >> no. no, not at all. >> then why? >> well, we think about the entire public. to tell you the truth. we thought about schools. we thought about business. and we felt like friday afternoon, if there were individuals deciding they wanted to peacefully protest, at least other individuals would have, you know, gone home, schools would be out, and it wouldn't be as disruptive as it would have been if we released on a wednesday afternoon. >> in this video, it is said that tyre nichols cries for his mother. did you hear that? >> i did. i heard him call out for his mother. for his mom. i did. >> and? >> that is why this incident, not just that, but just the disregard for humanity as i

mentioned before. i think that is what really just pulls at your heartstrings. and makes you wonder why was a sense of care and concern for this individual just absent from this situation. all who went to the scene. >> speaking of the people who went to the sacene, have you spoken to any of the officers? >> i have not. >> you have talked to the family of tyre nichols? >> i have. i have. i think i was just as emotional as they were. and you can't help but feel their pain. you can't help but even take ownership of what they are going through. and i've extended and availed myself to the family in the days to come, not just as a police chief, but saas a mother, as someone who felt the pain of miss wells and her loss.

and the sense of responsibility to do whatever i could, especially in the first steps of justice, you know, to terminate these officers and, you know, and hopefully the rest of this process towards justice will be as swift. >> and in just moments i'm going to speak to her and the step father. what do you say to them? >> i continue to let them know that we pray for them and that i am still available. i extend heartfelt condolences and i think they know that. and, you know, we're going to be with them, you know, for the long haul. >> why not speak to the officers after? >> you know, there is not much you can say. >> okay. >> there is not much you could say. >> the policy for the memphis police department requires officers to intervene and stop excessive force and report these incidents immediately. did anyone on that video, will we see that, did anyone do that or will we see that on that

video at all. >> you will not see that on that video. >> there are two members of the fire department who are involved. what do you know about them and who are they? >> i don't know them specifically. i know there are two officers or two firefighters that were paramedics and i believe that the fire chief quickly started an administrative investigation into their actions or inactions at that scene as well. >> what is their involvement? do they fail to render proper care? >> based on the video, they failed to render proper care. >> they just stand by. >> that is my assessment. yes. yes. they just stood by. >> and didn't render care. >> they began to render care and concern but it was long after several minutes. and which was, you know, concerning for all of us that we see a number of failures where

individuals did not exercise the amount of care that we are responsible for, no matter what -- no matter what the cause is. we're responsible for exercising care. >> i want to go back quickly and ask you, do we know what sparked the confrontation at the initial stop? >> i think that is the piece that is just unknown. >> no one knows. >> no one knows. and it is obvious when you see this video that it begins at a high level. typically with we have traffic stops, something sparks or aleast you're able to see what sparks this amount of aggression and physical, you know, activity with the driver. we cannot tell based on video what that was about. >> when did the beating start? was it initially or was it when he tried to run away? >> there is -- there is physical interaction between mr. nichols and the driver at the very beginning as the officers are

trying to get him out of the car. but it is still unknown what the original reason was for the stop in the first place. >> i have to ask you, five black officers. they're black police chief in a pl black community. what do you make of the race of the officers and what that says to the community and to the country about the policing, the care? >> well, i think it does -- it takes off the table that issues and problems in law enforcement is about race. and it is not. it is about human dignity and integrity, accountability, and the duty to protect our community. and as this video will show you, it doesn't matter who is wearing the uniform, that we all have that same responsibility. so it takes race off the table. but it does indicate to me that bias might be a factor also in the manner in which we engage

the community. >> you've given -- i am -- i appreciate -- i shouldn't say happy, but i appreciate you take the time to be candid and give us more time. is there anything that i missed, anything that you would like to say to the community, to the family, to the country, really about what you're dealing with here? >> so, as someone who has been involved in the whole police reform conversation, you know going before the senate, it is just important for me as a leader to not just talk about police reform, but to take swift action and also to represent other law enforcement leaders who have also reached out, who also believe that the way we handled these types of things, and unfortunately a man has to die for us to get to a point where we could actually exercise what justice looks like. but it is important for us to prove to the community that no matter what, we're going to do the right thing.

and that we're going to work on our agencies, we're going to take a deeper dive and not just assume that officers are doing what they're supposed to do. >> before i let you go, do you need help from washington. there is a george floyd policing act that is just sitting there? >> absolutely, absolutely. >> what do you say to the leaders. >> the george floyd policing act, some of the recommendations i was able to be part of it and that is part of my testimony. duty to intervene. and ensuring choke holds are banned and ensuring there are national registries for officers when they do bad. they can't move to other agencies. we want those laws passed. those laws were put on the table and pushed to the side under the previous administration. some of those laws need to be passed so that agencies around the country will have consistency in the manner in which we deal are our community. >> such an important and wide-ranging and candid

interview with the chief. and interesting ending on the note about the george floyd policing act and which passed the house and languished in the senate. president biden in terms of an executive order, there is a question about parts of this act. could this lead to a renewed push, perhaps, to pass some of that. >> and certainly one act does not solve all of the problems. other thing that stood out to me, i'm sure and a lot of folks listening. i heard him call out for his mother, the chief said in his video. for his mom. i did. we could only imagine seeing that for ourselves. >> heartbreaking. and we're going to hear from the family of tyre nichols just ahead. their devastating aaccount of the night that they first learned of what happened to their son and how that ultimately led to his death. so you only pay for what you need. contestants reready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. libertyty.

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to watch any of that tape. >> and i know i didn't see it. but from what i hear, it's horrific. and the humanity of it all. where was the humanity? they beat my son like a pinata. my son weighed a buck 50. he was 6'3" and he weighed a buck 50. and those men, if you combine their weights, they all -- it was over a thousand pounds, beating and beating 150-pound person to death. because that is what they did. they beat my son to death. >> he cried out for his mom? >> yes. yes, he cried out for me. because i'm his mother.

and that is what he was trying to get tomorrow to safety. >> a mother's grief there. well tyre's father did watch that video. he described to don what he saw. >> i saw officers hitting on him, i saw officers kicking him. one officer kicked him like he was kicking a football a couple of times. and but the most -- the most telling thing about the video to me was the fact that it was make ten officers on the scene and nobody tried to stop it or even after they beat him, and they propped him up against a car, no one rendered aid to him whatsoever. they walked around, smoking cigarettes like it was all calm and like bragging about what happened.

>> an hour of video? >> yes. >> and you saw him just sitting there? >> he was sitting there and then he slumped over. and officer walked to him and said, sit back up. mf, you know. and while he's handcuffed. so he had -- they pop him back up and he's slumped over again. and they pop him back up again. but no one was rendering aid. i saw some fire department people come out there. and they just walked around and nobody showed him any aid and they're supposed to be trained in first aid. >> with us now, memphis merrill candidate and school board member michelle mckessic and justin hansford executive director of the thurgood marshall civil rights center. good to have you have both on. there is so many things to digest. first among them is a family's pain here. i want to get to some of the legal issues if we can. and justin, a consistent feature

we have seen in deadly police encounters is the traffic stop. you go back to daunte write, stopped for having an air freshner on his rearview mirror. here the police chief openly questioning the idea that he had been recklessly driving prior. is that a broader problem? the police traffic stop itself? >> yes, well first thanks for having me. the d.c. police reform commission here in the nation's capital where i live, last year recommended that we take place out of traffic stops in this city, for that very reason. we have other ways to be able to enforce traffic violations without having people with guns and with the ability or the training of using violence and deadly force to subdue people who are simply out trying to get from one place to another. so those are some serious proposals that we need to weigh

the pros and cons of. i know that the phrase abolish the police has been so controversial, but we have to get past our emotional responses to particular phrases and really find solutions that are going to be based on the merits of our proposals, pros and cons. >> it is important to actually sit down and look at the facts and look at what would and would not work based on experience. it is such an important point. michelle, as we look at this, you are a member of the community and have been for sometime there. both as a journalist and now in the school board. you recently through your hat in the ring -- in the race for mayor. your sons were also part of the skate community and i understand it. and you have a son who is close in age to tyre nichols. when you look at how this is being handled by the police chief, by the d.a. who we know has met with members of community, how is that being received in the broader community in memphis? is it what people need? is it enough? >> well, first of all, thank you

for having me and the police chief, from what i've heard in the community and what i've seen personally, we want to applaud chief davis for his swift action. and answering and actually making it more calm in the city because she didn't wait until the video to come out. and as far as our district attorney, steve mull roy, he's being very forthright as well. that is what people want. when you give them information instead of having them wonder in their heads and rule dmors, it them know they're being listened to. >> justin, it was interesting to see the police chief repeatedly bring up duty of care. that the officers involved, she was saying, did not exercise, did not abide by that duty of care. i believe legally, is it true that the duty of care supercedes even a duty to arrest, right? is that right? in other words, that is the primary responsibility in many

of these interactions? >> yes, well ultimately this is not just a civil rights issue, it is a human rights issue and everybody has the human right to be treated with dignity as the police chief said and the duty of care, the idea that the government has you in their custody at that moment, and there is a duty to handle the citizen with the type of human respect any of us would expect is something that was actually in the memphis police department's new procedures from what i understand, that they've changed their procedures to include a more robust duty of care. now of course that doesn't mean you're able to change the culture. you may have been able to change the procedures but not culture and that culture change is what has to be explored, especially as you're talking about the justice and policing act and some of the reform efforts that are really geared toward changing the way people behave in the police department. so this doesn't happen in the

first place. >> michelle, justin, we're beginning to scratch the surface. please stay with us. we'll continue this conversation after a quick break. sore throat. show your sore throat who's boss. mucinex instasasoothe. works in s seconds, lasts for hours. what's the #1 retinol brand used most by dermatologists? it's neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® smooths the look of fine lines in 1-week, deep wrinkles in 4. so you can kiss wrkles goodbye! neutrogena® my name is joshua florence, and one thing i learned being a firefighter is plan ahead. you don't know what you're getting into, but at the end of the day, you know you have a team behind you that can help you. not having to worry about the future makes it possible to make the present as best as it can be for everybody.

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as we wait for the release of videos that show the violent and ultimately deadly encounter between memphis police and tyre nichols. so many questions, erica. >> and we're joined by if you weren't with us before the break, michelle mish kissic and justin hansford. it is good to have you both back with us. we were talking during the break. your three sons who are grown men now but as we know our kids are always our kids, they were -- would frequent the same

skate park and you were there for a vigil last night and you spoke with rowvaughn wells, tyre nichols's mother and that was a powerful moment for you in terms of the message she had. what did you two discuss? >> that is right. it was very emotional. after the vigil, i wanted to share with her, mrs. wells i'm a mom of four kids aand i have three sons two of whom skated at this very same park and i wanted to let her know i was praying for her and that the community would support her and as mayor i wanted to have some laws put in place in tyre's name. and then at that moment, she grabbed my hand, and she said, michelle, she's like, i feel like i'm living in a movie. i just don't want his death to be in vain. and we connected on that because i could only imagine what it was like for her. i can't even begin to imagine, my oldest son is almost 25, just a few years younger than tyre. and just being -- to lose your

life over a traffic stop. so we connected at that moment. and she wanted to stay in touch with me and i said i would do everything that i could to make this safe for every person in her community. so it was a moment and i'll never forget it. >> justin, our don lemon asked the police chief a question in effect does the race of the officers here matter. in this case, i want to play your her answer and get your thoughts on it. >> it takes off the table that issues and problems in law enforcement is about race. and it is not. it is about human dignity, integrity, accountability, and the duty to protect our community. and as this video will show you, it doesn't matter who is wearing the uniform, that we all have that same responsibility. so it takes race off the table. but it does indicate to me that bias might be a factor also in,

you know, in the manner in which we engage the community. >> i wonder, justin, if you agree with her view there? >> yes, well, i think that the end of that statement there is telling, we are already knew that oftentimes police officers, when they come into a police department, they're asked to choose to either be black or blue and once they become blue, the bias could still be present. i think many of us are skeptical as to whether if it was not a young black man, if it was a white civilian or other race, would they be treated the same. but i wanted to say very briefly, on the question of the mental health of children and others who have to see this footage, cori bush has interest dued the helping families heal act in congress and it talks about how there are over 50 million additional poor mental health days that black americans

experience every year as a result of police violence. both from dealing with that in their communities and seeing this footage over and over again. i know over the next few days, this footage will be shown, if not on live air. but on social media and replayed over and over again. and that is going to have a dramatic impact on youth around this country. and we do need to start to think about mental health of our communities in these situations as well. >> it is an excellent point to take into consideration. how and when that video was shown and how and when people choose to see it as well. but it is an important part of it. from a legal perspective, what i find interesting is how candid the police chief was in her interview with don this morning. our colleague sara sidner also spoke with the district attorney who i'm not sure we have time -- we don't have time to run the full sound. but one of the things that the d.a. told sarah was, yes, they beat him, they beat him to death. and also noted when he was asked

about the police report, he said there is not a overlap between the police report and the offense. what they have seen and what they believe happened, does that in any way compromise the case or give anything to the defense moving forward, justin? >> you know, i think that we've seen -- if you think back to the derek chauvin case, when you have a gap between what is reported as what happened and the police report and what is shown on footage, often times itself is a telling piece of evidence. so i'm not concerned about her ability to clear and transparent in this moment in terms of the case itself. but ultimately it does come back to this question of this how often we take those police reports on face value and we report those incidents in the media and talk about what happened in our daily lives. >> sometimes you mentioned the

george floyd case, they were found to be at a minimum misleading, perhaps outright false. thank you so much to both of you and we'll be right back. into the no-too-distant future of lincoln. ♪ ♪ it's what sanctuary could look like... feel like... sound like... even smell like. more on that soon. ♪ ♪ the best part? the prequel is pretty sweet too. ♪ ♪

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today is international holocaust remembrance day. which also makes the day that auschwitz camp was liberated and we're honoring those killed by the nazis. second gentleman doug emhoff is visiting auschwitz.

>> and president biden said in part, quote, as we join nations around the world in bearing witness to this dark chapter in our shared history, we also honor survivors and their stories. pledging to always remember and to keep faith with that sacred vow never again. >> and so important too in light of what we have seen in terms of a rise in hate crimes and anti-semitic violence that we remember that. and may the memories of those who perished be a blessing. thank you for joining us today. i'm erica hill. >> and i'm jim sciutto. "at this hour" with kate bolduan starts right after a quick break.

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