heinous, reckless, and inhumane. i'm microal smerconish of philadelphia. those are the comments made. now that the rest of us have seen it, nobody can dispute that characterization. tyre nichols died from those injuries three days later, but was it second-degree murder as state law defines it? let's go to the video. i, of course, warn you the clips are difficult, they're disturbing to watch, there's a lot of foul language. first we saw an officer arriving at the scene and the situation rapidly escalating. >> damin', i didn't anything.

>> turn your ass around. >> all right, all right, all right. you don't do that, okay? >> get on the funking ground. get on the ground. i'm going to tase your ass. >> all right. i'm on the ground. i'm on the ground. on the ground. >> i'm going to tase you. get on the ground. >> now. >> i'll tase you. >> all right, okay, all right. >> i'll break your -- turn the fuck around. put your hands behind your back. >> you guys are really doing a lot right now. >> nichols runs away. he's soon caught nearby. in the next body cam clip he cries out for his mother while he's being beaten. again, it's very disturbing. >> mom! mom! >> watch out, watch out.

>> mom! mom! >> it was a surveillance camera on the light poem that gave the clearest and most chilling picture of the encounter. the video shows nichols being hit, kicked, punched, hit with a baton multiple times in less than four minutes. no one appears to render any aid. the ambulance would not arrive for more than 20 minutes. almost as reprehensible as the baton blows and kicks to the head was the delay in getting medical attention that he needed. roughly 23 minutes passed between when he was sub duerred from the beating to the time the stretcher aarrived on the screen. all of these charges led to second-degree murder charges and more to the five memphis police officers. last night i tweeted my instant analysis as an attorney.

i correctly predicted how it would be received. said the following. gut reaction. many won't want to hear having watched and before hearing anyone else's opinion. it was hard to watch. tragic. sad. unnecessary. excessive, yes, exclamation points. but deserving on second-degree murder, the knowing killing of another based only on what i have just seen? no. if my thumbs failed me, i didn't make a clear legal decision. what i was saying is this. i wasn't saying they killed tyre nichols with their actions. they did. once again twitter proves to be a place lacking in any knew a witness. here are just a handful of the responses i received. christ, you're a monster, eff all the way off. you're blind, get some new glasses. longtime listener, this seems like a plea for clicks real

estate than objective analysis. sad. no, this is what objective analysis looks like. would you say the same thing if this was your son and daughter. borough, you shout of have stopped after your fifth glass of wine. this won't age well. please don't say this on your show tomorrow, please. and idiot. some if not all understood the moral point. quote, they probably didn't set out to kill him, but there's no way they didn't know he might die from such a beating. okay, now at least we're having a conversation. and there was this. when they hunted him down, they took turns beating him. they committed manslaughter. yes, but that's not the same as second-degree, which is the charge he's facing or they're facing. according to tennessee state law, second-degree degree murder is the knowing killing of another and it goes on to enumerate in violation of this section if the defendant

know knowingly engages in multiple incidents of dough mess tuck abuse, assault, or the inflection of bodily injury against a single victim, the trier of fact may infer that the defendant was aware that the cumulative effect of the conduct was reasonably certain to result in the death of the victim, regardless of whether any single incident would have resulted in the death. second-degree degree murder is intentional, but more serious than voluntary manslaughter. that's murder committed in the heat of passion. here's the ooh legal situation. did the officers show despicable, willful disregard for the life of a man being? i think they did. did he die from his injuries? i think he did. was it in passion, ie, manslaughter? that remains for the courts to decide. i want to know what you think.

smerconish.com. vote on this poll's issue. did the video show the knowing kill of another. joining me now is senior cnn analyst elie honig. he was a former prosecutor and worked on violent crimes. i think you get what i'm trying to say. was it heinous, reckless, and inhumane, hell, yes, but do you see in those tapes five individuals knowingly engaged a killing? >> so, michael, i do not believe the prosecutors have overcharged this case. i think this charge falls within the fairly broad range of discretion we give to prosecutors. i do think it's an aggressive charge only second-degree murder. here's why. you have to prove a knowing killing of another person, and what the prosecutors ultimately will have to prove to a jury is that it was reasonably certain to each of these officers that

their actions would result in the dealt of mr. nichols. now, this is a really important point, michael. i want to make sure people understand this. the jury in this case will not return a verdict. they will return 35 verdicts because we have five defendants here charged with seven accounts each. the second-degree murder being the top count. they're going to have to the defendant by defendant, asays their acts, and were these acts knowingly aimed at and done withable certainty they would result in the death of a person. we could have different results and different verdicts. >> i can imagine these defense lawyers wanting to parse out each of these cases and perhaps the finger in a different direction. in broad strokes thinking about this as a composite t prosecution is going to say what? the prosecution is going to say they did knowingly engage in such conduct. the baton blows are going to

become key. the video from the light pole will be most important and also the kicks to the head. the defense it seems to me is going to be stressing. give us your hands, just give us your hand, give us your hands all through four videos and say he resisted. you any in the fourth tape there was a claim maybe he was high and we also heard some information about him potentially reaching for someone's gun. what else stood out for you in terms of the basic points? >> well, so i think the prosecutors are going to say simply this was a sashage beating, they had to have known. when you have a person restrained essentially whether by handcuffs or being held up as you see in the video and you strike him in the face four to five times in rapid success, something like nine times total, of course, it is reasonably certain you will kill that guy. that will be the crux of the prosecution's amount here. the defense will make some combination of argument dallas was some justification, some

need for force. i'm not sure that's exactly born out by the video. but i also think the defense is going to say, you have to look at's of these individuals separately and part out what each of them did, and the defense is going to say perhaps this is an aggravated assault. perhaps this might have been manslaughter. but to get to that point of murder by doing what they did was reasonably certain they were going to cause the death of this individual. and let's keep in mind, michael, the prosecution always has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. it's a mistake to presume any case is going to be easy, especially a case like this. i think we're going to have a highly contested trial. >> we'll use your wofrmtd no one at home should misunderstand what i'm saying. something else that's really important and equally appalling.

the delay. holy crap. at the end, it's like there's a locker room and they're talking about a game they just played and no one is doing anything for the now decedent. what are the legal consequences of the delay? >> so the theory here is failure to render aid or failure to render medical aid. now, this is a really important point legally because this is the sort of new development that we're seeing in some of these police cases. we saw in the derek chauvin trial in the killing of george floyd. the theory around all of those officers is in addition to causing george floyd's death, they failed to render aid. that was a fairly novel legal theory at the time, but the jury accepted it, and now we're starting to see that type of theory brought to bear more afte often. it's some of the lesser charges but still significant. lesser charge. the official misconduct charge and official omission charge if

you look further down the charges here. the theory is by standing around doing nothing, first i would think that tells you something about their mind-set, their intent. they didn't care what happens to him. that's a crime in and of itself. they're seeing that kind of theory used much more aggressively with some police officers and with some success. >> bottom line, do you expect there to be more charges? >> i don't expect there to be more charges. i don't think there's a first-degree charge to be had here. that involves premeditation and intentional. i think they've charged this as aggressively as they can charge it. i'm all in favor of charging aggressively. that's what i used to do as a prosecutor, michael, but the risk is if the jury thinks you overcharged, that could backfire and affect your credibility. the pros kiertss took an aggressive approach. i think it's warranted. but i do not think it's a safe

assumption everyone will get convictioned a cross the board and that's that. >> elie honig, thank you for being here. i appreciate it. joining me now is laura coe. she specializes in police work. laura, what do advice do you have for police departments around the country? should they be saying anything around the case trying to distinguish themselves so they don't lose credibility in their own communities? >> i just want to start off by acknowledging and giving cob dolenzs to mr. nichols' family and to all who love and care about him. yes, they absolutely need to be acknowledging what just happened. i have talked with dozens of police chiefs and sheriff's across the country who all say they're outraged and apowed by what they say on that video. one sheriff said, these are not police officers.

they're savages, and they have no business being in our profession. i talked with a city of a major police chief. he said, here we are again. we did it to ourselves. this is an embarrassment. it's very important they're getting on the phone with their local leaders, the pastors of their community, the local chapters of the ncaa p, and saying, hey, what are you hearing, what are you feeling? our lines of communication are open. we're here to listen torsion talk. we want people to know this does not represent all of us. these are the select few that should not be in the profession, and thankfully they have been fired. >> the nichols family lawyer said yesterday they want to hear in particular from the fraternal order of police. if the fop either as a national organization or chapters were to call you, give me the short version. what does the statement say that they should be releasing? >> that they're outraged, they're appalled, they're

disgusted just like everybody else because we are. and if you aren't, you should be. and they're going to do whatever they can to continue to push reforms that will stop this from happening within the police culture. >> have you seen evidence of any police department saying that yet? i reek nice this has happened quickly. the tape was only released last night. >> yes, we're starting to see statements from police chiefs and sheriff's departments across the country, this is horrific, this should have never happened, we're going to communicate with you and build trust within the communities whatever has taken place. they're just as upset as the rest of the community at this point. they realize it makes them look horable. >> laura, thank you so much. appreciate your expertise. what are your thoughts? tweet me. hit me up on social media. you know i try to incorporate some during the curse of the

program. what do we have, katherine? the murder charges needed to keep place, a plea bargain to manslaughter will put them in jail a long time and their lives and hopefully the police department will make them look at their staff. bill schneider, i think there's merit in what you're saying. thank god last night was a mostly peaceful night in terms of the protests and in particular in memphis. if there had not been, would there be charges with the "m" word, the murder. would charges have been brought? maybe it was. perhaps it was successful. whether that's where the case ends up, i'm not sure. remember, i want to know what you think go. to the website. it's smerconish.com. yeah, it's a legal question. it's a legal question. it was a horrible inhumane event that transpired. i'm asked you this.

did the video show -- and i'm quoting from tennessee law -- the knowing killing of another. go to voting. the results will come later. up ahead, the killing of george floyd at the hands of police seemed at the time to be a watershed moment about excessive use of force, so why are we still seeing needless escalations like tyre nichols traffic stop which ended with yet another tragic death, and the murder trial started this week in the case of the disbarred south carolina lawyer alex murdaugh for shooting and killing his wife and son in 2021. we're going to get the latest from someone who has been untang bling the case from the beginning. a little easier. (moo) mabel says for you, it's more like 5:15. man: mom, really? ♪ my relationship with my credit cards wasn't good. i got into debt in college and, no matter how much i paid, it followed me everywhere. between the high interest, the fees. i felt trapped.

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deep wrinkles in 4. so you can kiss wrinkles goodbye! neutrogena® the tragic death of tyre nichols after the beating death by five officers raises questions. the policing action would have created a national standard for police use of force and overhauled communitymeasures, but it never made it out of the

senate. given the recent focus on such cases how sit that none of the officers in the tyre nichols matter had the presence of mind to de-escalate? joining me now is timothy williams jr. who served for 30 years on the force and he's provided expert testimony regarding police procedures and use of force in more than 200 cases, mostly for the plaintiffs against police departments. he's also the author of the book "the deep dive." mr. williams, thank you so much for being here. quote, you run, you pay. is that what went on here? is that an unspoken or spoken edict among cops? >> that's the unspoken and spoken edict among law enforcement nationwide, and thank you for having me on. the culture in law enforcement is that, you know, if we have to chase you, then you're going to

pay for that. normally the payment is a beating. what you saw there in memphis, memphis, tennessee, is an indication of what goes on in the communities of color if you have to chase someone, and that's the result of that. >> give us your hands, give us your hands, given us your hands. why did they have such difficulty especially because there were so many of them in restraining this individual? >> i'm not in academia. i'm a practitioner. i was out in the field. >> right. >> you have five plus officer out there, and these were burly men. if these guys couldn't turn him over, get him handcuffed, they're in the wrong profession. it was easy to get him turn over, get him handcuffed, sit

him up, and be done with it. they the tasing him was excessive. chasing him down, beating him, kicking him, punching him, hitting him with the metal asp, the baton, was excessive. that's not how you're trained in the academy. and i've handled cases nationwide, and these are the issues that come. from time to time in the cases that i've handled as relates to excessive force. >> when you saw toward the end of the tapes, that fourth tape when now the situation was -- resolved is the wrong word because the man paid his life for it -- but when the person they were chasing was subdued, it was almost like locker room conversation where you have athletes talking about the game after it ended, talk to me about

why no one took any action to render aid torsion make sure that paramedics were on the scene. i mean, isn't that part of the police protocol? you might be physical with somebody, but for god's sake, you then try and save their life? >> yeah. that's the protocol nationwide. if a person has been physically restrained or you've had an altercation with him or her, the policy states you have to render aid immediately, even if it's a shooting yochl view to render aid immediately. that's normally done by the officers at the scene and until the fire department gets there, the medics get there, and they take over. here you have to look at the policy and procedures, but in this particular situation, it was -- i believe it was a 20-minute delay. getting the medics to the scene. you have to listen to communications taos why that

was. did they immediately ask for the paramedics to come? was there a delay due to the calls for service as the why the paramedics didn't get there? all those things come into play. but the immediate first aid is important and it's written in the policies and procedures, but if everything was supposed to be and they waited a length of time to call the paramedics, then they violated the policy and procedure in that aspect as well. >> mr. williams, thank you for your expertise, i'm sure that part of the case is going to get a lot more attention, as it should. thank you, sir. >> thank you for having me. more social media reaction. katherine, what do we have? a lot of things being submitted today. smerconish, i see so many escalations when police try to get somebody out of the vehicle without cause. evolution. can i say something about this? i watched this one of my sons

last night. his comment -- young adult, not young person, was, dad, why should they chase him? should we rethink the whole idea? the car was stopped in traffic, and now tyre nichols had fled on foot. bad things seem to happen every time there's a pursuit like that. you've got the car. you're going to figure out -- i'm just spitballing here. obviously i lack police expertise, but i thought it was a worthy conversation. what would have been the harm, we've got the car, we're going to figure out who this is, and instead of escalating the situation, we're going to calm. the whole pursuit, you can see the testosterone building. so sad. make sure you're voting at smerconish.com. die redied of injuries by the inflictions upon him.

i'm asking something about tennessee law. does it fit the description of second-degree? for this you need the showing that there was a knowing killing of another. that's whey i'm getting at today. i hope that's not lost on folks. >> up ahead, alex murdaugh on trial for the murder of his wife and son. a fourth generation power family, he tried to gain public sympathy because inquiries into his finances were about to show extensive crimes. does that explain it? s possibil. frfrom paying your people from anywhere to supporting your talent everywhere, we use datata driven insights to design hr solutions and services to help businesses of all size work smarter today. so, they can have more success tomorrow. ♪ one thing leads to another ♪ subway's upping their sub game with the subway series menu.

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did alex murdaugh kill his wife and son? that's the question facing the jury in the trial that began this week in south carolina. murdaugh a prominent and now disbarred lawyer accused of shooting and killing his wife and son with a rifle in a dog

kennel. the trial is taking place 30 miles east of the family's hunting property where this occurred. murdaugh, fourth general of a powerful south carolina family who have long been lawyers in areas. his grandfather's portrait hangs in the courtroom where he's being tried. it's been removed during these proceedings. the case presented is circumstantial but would still prove murdaugh's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. the trial's expected to last seshlg weeks with more than 250 people on the list of potential witnesses. joining me now is valerie boreline, national reporter for the ball street journal. she's been long covering this case and has been in courtroom each and every day. thanks for being here. what is the prosecution's theory as to motive?

? the prosecution says the walls were really closing in on alex murdaugh that night. that day he had been confronted by the administrator in his lawmaker over a $792,000 fee. he got a phone call that his father was dying and his death was imminent. what alex knew that others didn't is he had been stealing from his personal injury clients for more than a decade to the tune of $8.9 million. he knew his father had been his protector for a long time. so these things were closing in on him that day of june 27th. >> what i don't get is how killing his wife and son would necessarily give him cover from the walls closing in.

how about the defense theory in this case? if you want to say something else about the prosecution's theory, say it. but the defense in this case is what? >> you just said it. they say, the defense says, how does that help him? how does killing his wife and son help ameliorate this issue of the looming financial fraud, and they also say, you know, there's just no evidence that he did that. he was very -- he had a loving relationship, they say, with his wife and son. there's a video of them kind of laughing and talking taken minutes before. they say it doesn't make sense. a doesn't lead to b in this case. >> i want to talk about the surviving son. i'm going to put an image only the screen right now of buster murdaugh. you tell me what it feels like to be in ta that courtroom. he's on the sigh, sitting on the

side of his father's defense table. should i read something into that? is this like a wedding where you sit on the side of bride or groom or not? you're there. i know you're behind the prosecution because that's where the media is. but talk to me about buster. >> you know, it is a very erie feeling to see buster and walk by him in the hallway. he's a 26-year-old young man who's had so much loss in a year and a half and is really in the public eye in a devastating way, but it is an incredible show of support from the murdaugh family. we had not seen them at hearings to speak of, and on the opening day in walks buster and alex's brother and sister, an extended family. he's on alex's side of the courtroom and ere's no one sitting with the family that i'm aware of sit behind the

prosecution that's representing maggie and paul. >> you're reading into this that buster is with his father, charged with killing his mother and brother, but he's standing with dad. that's your interpretation? >> i think that's is symbolism we're seeing here. i've done quite a bit of reporting on this, and that's what i'm told to be the case, that it's a show of support. his dad is also accused separately of a total of 99 felonies, drug trafficking, money laundering, white collar crimes. setting that aside, he's still here to support his father in that particular case. >> valerie, number one, your reporting is excellent on this. i know you're going to write a book about the case. thumber two, the lawyering, i think, from a distance is excellent and totally different styles. give me 15 seconds on the lawyering. >> well, the lawyering, the

prosecution yesterday in particular was just old-fashioned, big talking southern kind of, you know, "to kill a mockingbird" presence, and the defense was poking holes. their theory is to poke small holes in every witness and they'll render the fabric -- tear it apart. >> he's a skilled trial lawyer. i'm not taking anything away from waters. he's great too. thank you, valerie. i'll keep tweeting. checking on your youtube, facebook, and twitter comments, what do we have? regardless of his response at the creem scene, perhaps he's just like that. i don't know how to read alex murdaugh. sitting in court, i realize a lot of you haven't had the opportunity to watch. the most graphic of testimony is presented and he's sort of

bobbing his head and you're saying, yeah, i guess how someone's wife or son who's murdered would act, you say, wait a minute, is that season montreal cast? i don't know. still ahead, the public is allowed to hear the 911 call and the video the night someone attacked paul pelosi. you've got to be impressed with how pelosi kept his cool. i want to explain in just a moment. and vote at smerconish.com. it's a legal question i'm. asking. tyre nichols was killed by the cops, i think by watching the video. did the video show the knowing killing of another because that's the tennessee state law defining second-degree murder. go vote. it's smerconish.com.m. for a limited time. the six dollar rootyty tooty fresh 'n fruity combo. 2 eggs, 2 bacon strips, and 2 fruit toppeded pancakes. only from ihopop.

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. the more we hear about paul pelosi being attacked by a home invader, the more the first is the perfect response. they released the 911 call and body cam footage, both of which had been played for the judge at the preliminary hearing. i'm hoping it finally puts the conspiracy theories to rest. first there's the 911 call made by pelosi on october 28th in the presence of his intruder. the totality lasts about three minutes. here's a snippet. >> san francisco police. do you need help? >> oh, well, there's a gentleman here waiting for my wife to come back, nancy pelosi. he's just waiting for her to come back. she's not coming back for days, so i guess we're going to have to wait. >> okay, do you need police, fire, or medical for anything. >> i don't think so, i don't think so.

there's the -- is the capitol police around? they're usually here at the house protecting my wife. >> right. stop the tape. the intera shows pelosi with a pretty amazing presence of mind. the guy's an octogenarian and he's been awakened in the middle of the night after a man smashs the black glass door with a hammer and he's wanting to know where his wife is. pelosi speaks calmly and in code to "the dispatch"er. if you listen carefully, they contain a number of clever tells compensating for the fact say that, hey, i'm the husband of the speak over the house and i have a strange guy in my home with hammer and i need help. instead here's what happened. >> do you know who the person

is? >> no, i don't know who he is. he's telling me not to -- he's telling me not to do anything. >> what is your address, sir? [ bleep ]. >> what is your name? >> my name is paul pelosi. anyway, this gentleman says that he -- he's telling me to put the phone down and just do what he says, okay? >> okay. what's the gentleman's name? >> my name's david. >> the name's david. >> okay. and who is david? >> i don't know. what's that? >> i'm a friend of theirs. >> he says he's a friend, but as i said -- >> you don't know who he is? >> no, ma'am. >> right.

another key point. the intruder's the one, not pelosi, who uses the word "friend." >> okay. you sure? i can stay on the phone to make sure everything is okay. >> no, he wants me to get the hell off the phone. >> the call terminates. the police are now dispatched to the house. the chronology gets muddied a bit by an aud yes snippet between dispatcher and police that did get in the public domain. >> stated there's a male in the home and that he's going to wait for his wife but he doesn't know who the male is but he advises he is david and he is a friend. >> right. see? that makes it sound like pelosi called the intruder his friend. he didn't. you heard the 911 tape. you can imagine how the con spear cysts delighted in that. a french newspaper used it to float a theory that the encounter was a sort of preplanned gay rendezvous. elon musk tweeted a link.

this was proven because pelosi was in his underwear. it would be unusual if he wasn't in his underwear given the fact it was 2:00 a.m. brook jenkins felt it necessary to hold a news meeting. we have nothing to suggest that the two men knew each other prior to the incident, said jenkins. also released on friday was the police body cam footage beginning when officers knocked on the pelosi front door. i've got to warn you. this is really disturbing to watch. >> what's going on, man? >> everything's good. >> drop the hammer? nope. >> hey, hey, hey. >> what's going on? >> whoa.

>> back upcode 3. >> following the attack, paul pelosi underwepts surgery for a fractured skull and wounds to his right hand and arm. he spent six days in the hospital. he's still recovering. after the audio and video was released, adam kinzinger tweeted hold him accountable. take a look at this 267891 politicians who made fun of the incident. a lot of familiar incidents. i get that this is painful for the pelosis to have to relive these moments. nancy pelosi says she has no intention of ever listening to the tape or watching the video of the assault on her husband's life. her daughter, alexandra told "the new york times" maureen dowd that the incident, quo, really broke her and that over thanksgiving she had priests

coming trying to have an exorcism of the house and having prayer services. who could blame her. they've got a right to provency, but from my perspective it's made useful and necessary. it makes this clear. paul pelosi seems pretty remarkable, pretty brave, pretty resourceful. how many of us even at a much younger age would have had the deftness to manage an obvious intruder and alert the police? and hopefully it will put an end to the conspiracy and misinformation about this incident. still to come, more of the best and worst tweets and the results of this week's nuanced question. it's >> bad cops did bad things killed a young man who didn't deserve to die. does it meet the definition of second-degree murder?

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it was murder plain and simple says michael. manslaughter is conventionally what you would see charged in a case like this. of course, at the end the baton blows, the kicks to the head, god awful. i like my colleague elie honig's work. it was an aggressive charge. we will see whether they can prove it or there is some other outcome in the case. what else came in? limited on time today, so i have to hustle. what child after watching these police brutality videos would want to zbroe up to be a good cop? >> i worry about that. i am worried about recruitment especially among african american males in the ranks of law enforcement. one of the data points i saw pertaining to memphis is they are understaffed. they haven't met where they need to be and i got to believe they will have a hard time. the vast majority of good cops. men and women, that's what i would tell young people. see you next week. with bank of. see cousinin jimmy over there? his girlfriend just caught the bouquet so...

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