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it's over! it is over, and the kansas city chiefs have won it! >> fly, eagles, fly. ♪ on the road to victory ♪ >> and there you go, good morning! for the first time ever, two black quarterbacks will face off in the super bowl. the numbers behind an unprecedented matchup. in memphis this morning, there are new questions about the group of the so-called scorpion unit involved in the beating death of tyre nichols. including the police chief's history with these specialized units. >> a manhunt this morning for a kidnapping suspect who may be using dating apps to avoid capture and find new victims. >> a chilling warning from an american general. the u.s. could be at war with china in the next two years. his reason and what the pentagon is saying.

and concertgoers met with facial recognition cameras as they walked out of madison square garden. hear why and whether it's a slippery slope legally. "cnn this morning" starts right now. obviously, there's a lot to cover, but we'll start with the memphis special police unit now facing scrutiny. all five of the former officer were members of the recently created scorpion unit which was tasked with tackling rising crime in the city. the memphis police department announcing that they'll permanently deactivate the unit. the police chief says it was created due to an outcry because of three years of violence in the city. >> this is one of three teams whose primary responsibility is to reduce gun violence, to be visible in communities.

we had record numbers in 2021. 346 homicides. so this unit was put together, and they had great success. >> so joining us now to talk about it, cnn's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, mr. john miller. john, good morning to you. thank you. wow, there's a lot to discuss here. the intent was good. the end result was a failure. that was the attorney for nichols' family said. what do you know about this unit and what's going on now? >> well, the scorpion unit is a specialized unit like a lot you see, especially in cities facing crime. and when you look at the memphis crime picture, and the chief framed it a little bit, but this is a city that's poured millions into downtown, convention centers, restaurants, venues. they lost a hyatt hotel construction deal, because crime was just going up. downtown, they had 4,000 crimes in 2022. a thousand more than they had the year before. 30 cars broken into on one block. so, sending these anti-crime

teams, that are your experienced officers, highly trained, to go after predator criminals, makes sense in a place where you're having record murders, shootings, carjackings. the problem is, how long are they on the job? what was their level of experience. what was their level of supervision? is there a sergeant with every team? the answer is, not long enough, not enough training, not enough supervision. they got three or four days. needed more than that. the basics were there. they had de-escalation training. they had some tactical training. but at the end of the day, they had to disband that unit, because the name is poison now. no pun intended about the scorpion unit, but, you couldn't send teams out and have them show up in a community where they would say, who are you guys? and they would say, we're scorpion, but get anything but a really negative reaction. >> which is notable, because this is something that city leaders have been touting since it was formed.

saying it was helping to reduce crime. it is true that homicide numbers were up in memphis, just like they were in a lot of places in the country. so what does this mean for the future of these highly specialized units. aren't all of them going to be now associated with this beating of tyre nichols? >> you know, kaitlan, we went through this in new york city. granted, it's a much larger police department. we took our anti-crime units that were in plain clothes, we put them in hybrid uniform, so it was much more able that they were police, they were trained in able active bizpystander andw enforcement. that means it's your job to get your partner under control as the rest of the team, and that has worked. they're still getting more guns than other units are. this unit was -- they had tactical peace down about getting the guns. they were making a lot of felony arrests and getting a lot of guns. but it only takes one incident like this or one team that has

become poisoned to take the whole thing down. and we're watching that in realtime now. >> i think "the new york times" this morning did an excellent job of explaining just what he was up against, tyre nichols was up against. 71 commands in 13 minutes. that's a headline. and it ticks through the contradictory orders that were given by these officers of things that tyre could not do. like, yelling at him to show his hands, as they're holding his hands down. commanding him to get on the ground, when he's already on the ground. over and over and over again. how does that happen? not by one officer, not by two, but by five? >> i would first say, nobody at "new york times" has never tried to huandcuff somebody who didn' want to be handcuffed, and i would look at that tape myself a few times, when they're giving these commands, his position is changing back and forth all the time, but the fundamental problem is, they're not functioning as a team that looks like they've worked together before in a similar situation. they're not functioning as a

team that has practiced an arrest and control. this was a full-on failure. >> yeah. >> john, i was there in memphis, just listening to you tick through what was happening, the video, the skycam, whatever, it was very -- it was good that we had you here. it was very important that we have you here, because i think you helped a lot of us get through this and understand what's going on. and also, these similar units around the country. because not all of them have issues. >> no. >> it's -- >> by all face the same risks. >> but it's the people who are in those units and not necessarily the units and the names and all of that. >> and the chief go it. supervision was her problem. she knew that. she said, a span of control problem, which just in english means, i don't have enough sergeants. you need that one person who can slow that down and that person clearly wasn't there. >> more to discuss. and you'll be here on cnn throughout the day and coming weeks and months to talk about this. thank you, john miller. appreciate it. straight ahead, we need to tell you that van jones is going

to be live with us on his new cnn opinion piece and the debate over the role of race in the tyre nichols murder. or death, i should say. also this morning, an extremely dangerous kidnapping suspect who tortured a woman in oregon is still on the loose this morning. he may be using dating apps to lure new victims and manipulate people into helping him. that is the warning that we are hearing from police, as the manhunt for the person, benjamin foster, is continuing. investigators have been looking at him since last tuesday, when they found a woman who was tied up, severely beaten, and unconscious. lucy kafanov is following this case for us. lucy, he's been on the run for about a week now. police say they need the public's help. are they any closer to finding him? >> they're not, kaitlan, they were able to identify him pretty quickly as benjamin own diya foster. they released several images of him and warning the public that

benjamin foster may attempt to change his appearance by shaving his beard or hair or by changing his hair color. they are asking the public to pay attention to his facial features and his eyes >> this woman was found last tuesday beaten into unconsciousness. the district attorney said that he tried to kill her while torturing her and confining her in a place she was not likely to be found. she is now hospitalized in critical condition. now, he fled that scene before officers arrived. this was last tuesday. they then searched another area about 20 miles north with a s.w.a.t. team. they found several pieces of evidence, including his car. and a woman who they believe was hiding him out. they arrested her, but he escaped again. again, kaitlan, he is on the run. he is being charged with attempted murder, kidnapping, and assault. >> yeah. that's so discomforting for that

community. lucy lucy kafanov, thank you for staying on this. you cannot watch this video and not be horrified by it. we'll dig into it and discuss it a lot more, when 82-year-old paul pelosi was attacked inside his home, conspiracy theorists called it a gay tryst, a lover's quarrel, a prostitute visit gone wrong. and then, of course, the video came out, approving it to be all bs. elected republicans, right-wing media hosts, high-profile business leaders all pushed the baseless conspiracies, all pushed the bs. elon musk tweeted a bogus link to his 100 million followers that it could have been a fight with a male prostitute. three months later, he tweeted a very short apology. donald trump jr. shared this picture at the time, a crude joke, about paul pelosi halloween costume, representative claudia tinny and cl clay higgins shared posts in the same vein. then there was the unfounded theory that the two men were

friends. congressman marjorie taylor greene peddled that idea, but it's not true. we hear paul pelosi say as much in the newly released 911 call. listen. >> this gentlemen just came into the house and wants to wait here for my wife to come home. and so -- >> do you know who the person is? >> no, i don't know who he is. >> another theory that it wasn't really a break-in. the former president donald trump and others pushed the theory that there was glass inside and outside the house. he says, it seemed like a breakout. but you can see with your own eyes, there's david depape, breaking in with a hammer. senator ted cruz lamented in a retweet at the time that we might never know for sure what happened inside the pelosi home, but the video the 911 call, they paint a pretty clear picture for everyone. and if that's not enough, the

attacker called a san francisco reporter from jail on friday. lis listen. >> civil liberty is dying. it's being killed. systemically and deliberately. the people killing it have names and addresses. so i got their names and addresses so i could pay them a little visit. i want to apologize to everyone. i messed up. what i did was really bad. i'm so sorry -- i didn't get more of them. it's my own fault, no one else to blame. i should have come better prepared. >> so now, what, you've put these conspiracy theories out there and disparaged an 82-year-old man. let's discuss that now and talk about it with editor in chief of s simafor. ben smith. this is really outrageous to me, because i think, i feel like it sort of, what happened in memphis overshadowed this video coming out and i thought that this was a really important story, considering what i had just talked about. this was awful. elected republicans, members of

conservative media, making up these conspiracy theories, and now it's just like, eh, it never really happened. >> yeah, god, that call is so chilling, where his only regret is he didn't get more people. but, yeah, i think there's this whole strain of populous politics that kind of relies on, well, you know, we're just asking questions. maybe nothing is true. you can't trust the police. you can't trust any authorities, you can basically just trust whatever you feel to be true. which is, we hate these people, it's probably their fault, they're probably lying. and so there was just this very broad embrace of totally crazy conspiracy theories. you know, often, there's an element in this particular case of sort of leering at some sexual motive. and it was pretty incredible. and then just the sort of grudging half apologies are just kind of the worst part. >> just one more follow for you. listen, the discussion is, do you talk about these things? because then you give -- you're giving oxygen to the conspiracy

theorists. to the fox newses of the world, right, with all of -- and then i don't know if they go back and retract them, most of them don't. it just became content for them. the question -- the question is, this should be called out more by members of the media. it should not be ignored. what they did was absolutely repugnant and they'll move on and pretend that it was okay. the don juniors of the world, evaluating and promoting them, putting people like that on the air to interview them. and just adding to these conspiracy theories. so what gives? what do we do? what's our responsibility as members of the media? >> i mean, i think it's a tricky question. and the old rule is, you know, you don't repeat this stuff. that, you know, that if you on your show don't talk about this, no one will ever hear about it. and that's sort of the old pre-internet approach to this kind of thing. but this story is the obvious counterexample, where this guy was -- i mean, it's sort of a full circle, because this guy himself, the attacker, was sort

of swimming in these waters. that's what motivated him to go and attack pelosi -- >> "the election was stolen" waters, that's what -- >> right, you can't -- it's a very tricky question for journalists. there's not some silver bullet, where if only you say the right magic words people will know this is false and trued declinet in media institutions that opens the door for people to believe whatever they feel like believing. >> you just said the internet, so it made me think how much worse social media as made all of this. you were the media reporter for "the new york times." newspapers give context. cnn gives context. social media often does not. and i've been thinking a lot about chatgpt and what that's going to mean for our future and replacing some parts of journalism, and all of that. and just where you think this goes from here, given all of

that. >> aspect of i think what elon musk considers citizen journalism, but just allowing this total disconnect from reality, in this case. i think our being replaced by chatgpt is a, you know, is its own difficult moment, but i don't know, i think that a lot of -- there's a lot of people out there who don't particularly enjoy this kind of thing. and who are looking for, the pendulum swings. and i think the pendulum is actually swinging back. and that's why you see, among other things, a lot of these social media platforms, facebook, twitter, really struggling right now. >> ben, thank you. i hope you're right. i hope that pendulum is on the way back. thank you very much. >> thank you, ben. well, the virginia school, elementary school, where that 6-year-old shot his teacher, that school reopens today. what students will see, how it will be different when they come back. plus, eagles fans flooded the streets of philadelphia

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only pay for what you need. ♪liberty liberty liberty♪ ♪liberty♪ how about this beautiful trophy. huh? >> i've got some wise words for that cincinnati mayor. know your role and shut your mouth! you got to fight for your right to party! >> it was a good night last night. the kansas city chiefs and the philadelphia eagles are set to meet at super bowl lvii, this after the chiefs snuck by in a

23-20 victory over the cincinnati bengals. the eagles blew out the san francisco 49ers earlier in the day, 31-7. joining us now with this morning's number is cnn's -- i mean, we could just replay that and jalen hurts singing, which was like the greatest moment i've seen on tv lately. but the morning number. we want to talk about what's going to be favored here. you look at the eagles roster, it's kind of hard to find a weakness in it. >> this morning's number is, it's 2. so that's how much the philadelphia eagles are favored to win the super bowl in two weeks, favored to win by two points over the kansas city chiefs. and this is a great super bowl, you know, as you sort of pointed out, because what we have is the afc's number one seed in the chiefs versus the nfc's number one seed in the nfc, the philadelphia eagles. this has been happening one frequently where the one seed is playing the one seed. we've been getting better and better super bowls. >> it's kind of amazing to those 1994 is when it happened. the two quarterbacks here are

the ones that are getting everyone's attention. i love jalen hurts, he went to alabama, but patrick mahomes is amazing as well, and he was playing with one good ankle yesterday. >> he's been playing with one good ankle. he's the youngest quarterback ever to reach three super bowls at just the age of 27. he beats out tom brady, who was also 27. you can see roethlisberger and bob griese, both at 28. mahomes beat brady by just 40 days. but you were pointing out how good the eagles are. the average playoff win margin after the conference championship games since 1970, '71, i think that's why the eagles are slightly favored in this matchup. the line has been going through different things, but the eagles very, very strong. look at these other teams on the list, two of them easily won the super bowl, but of course, my buffalo bills lost by -- >> yeah, we all know. >> what about the two quarterbacks also stands out? there's a bit of history happening here? >> this is the first super bowl to have two black starting quarterbacks. all i can say is it's about

darned time. that's what i have to say. it's an historic matchup and i'm really looking forward to seeing it, kaitlan. >> they're both so good, so good. it's going to be great. >> where will you be watching? >> maybe we can watch together. >> don, back to you. >> thanks, harry. an alarming prediction from a u.s. air force general. why he says the country could be going to war with china in as little at two years. that's straight ahead. this valentine's day, give the gift of shine. ♪ bl

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welcome back this morning. students are returning to virginia elementary school, ri ridgeneck elementary. this is nearly a month after a 6-year-old student in that school brought a gun in and shot a teacher in that class. the school has installed metal detectors. students will be given clear bookbags and the principal has been reassigned. you can imagine being one of those parents, having that talk, sending your kids back to school. what are you hearing? >> that's right, poppy. very anxious day as students and

teachers file back in here. classes resume in about an hour. we've been talking to a couple of teachers off-camera, as they made their way in this morning. one of them just told me she's excited to be back here. a very significantly enhanced security footprint in place here at ridgeneck elementary for this first day back. they're making the students carry around clear, transparent backpacks, not allowing them to bring their regular backpacks to school. two state of the art metal detectors are now in place. we've seen several newport news police officers, including the police chief, steve drew, here at the entrance, greeting people as they've come in. now, police officers, school resource officers will not be deployed here, but they will have security officers, other security officers here from now on, as well. they did have that imprint there before the shooting, but it was one school officer splitting duties between the school, that will now be enhanced. we talked to one parent of a

child whose son was in the same class as the shooter, thomas britton, in whether he has confidence in sending his child back to the school. here's what he had to say. >> i think with new administration, this administration that listens to teacher, listens to concerns, and acts on those concerns, you know, treat threats as credible until they're not. not the other way of, you have to do it before the threat is credible. this is probably going to be the safest school in the area for a good long while, kind of an ironic twist. so, i have no misgivings about sending them back. >> and we've also learned that the principal who was here at richneck on the day of the shooting, her name, brianna foster newton has been reassigned to another job in the school system. school officials not telling us exactly what that job is. but she is no longer here. the vice principal had already previously resigned after the shooting. >> and that's what parents told us over the last few weeks, brian. they felt like they went unheard over and over again by that school administration.

thank you for being here. thanks for your reporting. kaitlan? a u.s. air force general is predicting that the united states and china will go to war in 2025, just two years from now. "the washington post" reporting that general michael minh hahn sent a memo to troops under his command that said, quote win hope i'm wrong. my gut tells me we will fight in 2025 and she's reasons are all aligned for 2025. asked about this memo, a pentagon spokesman told cnn that these comments are not representative of the department's view on china. meanwhile, the republican chairman of the house foreign affairs committee, michael mccull, said that he thinks that he's right, actually. >> i hope he's wrong, as well. i think he's right, though. we have to be prepared for this. and it could happen, i think, as long as biden is in office,

projecting weakness, as he did with afghanistan that led to putin invading ukraine, that the odds are very high we could see a conflict, with china and taiwan and the endopacific. >> joining us now to talk about this is cnn military analyst and retired u.s. army general, david petard. thank you so much for being here. first of all, the obvious question is, what did you make of that memo when you saw it? >> good morning, kaitlan. what i though of that memo from general mayham and his candor throughout the military is well known, is that it was really designed for his subordinate commanders and the men and women in his command, as any good commander, he's got to prepare for work. he's got to make sure that his command is prepared. i think the last thing he wanted was for a memo like that to get out and go viral. but i think it was really about preparation. >> preparation, sure, but putting this blunt warning in a memo that, of course, as you noted, is now out there.

it was something certainly that could be -- he was also, pretty blunt, telling them to get their personal affairs no order, making these comments about this. we've seen some democrats disagree with this, adam smith, who was on the armed services committee, said not only is war with china not inevitable, he said he doesn't think that it's >> well, again, his comments were somewhat bombastic to motivate probably his command. but america's military strategy is centered around the asia pacific region now. and all potential adversaries are certainly on the table, especially china. so we must be prepared. is war imminent for 2025? well, i think the senior leadership of the department of defense would probably disagree. if war was imminent, there would be things that we would be doing to specifically prepare for that if it was 2025. so i think in some ways, he's gotten ahead of his skis a

little bit on that, but he's trying to motivate and preparing his supporting command. again, he is not a combatant commander. what his command does, air mobility command, is fly in troops, equipment, ammunition, and, things like that. he's a supporting commander. >> and so much of that is talking about if taiwan has the defenses that it needs. all of this is a broader conversation that's coming amid russia's invasion of ukraine. you saw recently how the united states said they would be sending tanks to ukraine. bir ghter jets, but the german chancellor says this morning they're not going to get them, at least, not fromny do you think that's something the u.s. should take into consideration? >> i do, kaitlan. i think that we should have sent jets a long time ago, at least mig 29s, mig 27s that the

ukrainians at least knew how to fly. but if they're going to take back their territory, they're going to need modern equipment, which includes aircraft, fighter jets, and bombers. >> all right. retired general dana pittard, thank you so much for joining us this morning on these really important subjects. >> thank you, kaitlan. controversy at the garden. how the owner at madison square garden is using facial recognition to ban the owners' enemies. plus, you know the music. he's the man behind some of your favorite motown songs. ahead, we remember the life and the legacy of barrett strong.

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one of motown's original mainstays and its first hitmaker, barrett strong, has died at the age of 81. you may remember this classic. ♪ the best things in life are free ♪ ♪ but you can give them to the birds and bees ♪

♪ i need money ♪ ♪ that's what i want ♪ >> that is a classic. and this one, also known for writing marvin gaye's "i heard it through the grapevine" and some other massive hits for some of motown's biggest stars. listen. ♪ ♪ one, two, good god, y'all, what is it good for ♪ ♪ absolutely nothing ♪ ♪ say it again ♪ >> motown founder berry gordy said this in a statement. i am saddened to hear of the passing of barrett strong, one of my earliest artists and the man who sang my first big hit, "money, that's what i want" in 1959. barrett was not only a great singer and peiano player, but h along with his writing partner norman whitfield created an incredible body of work, primarily with the tempemptatio. my heartfelt condolences go out to his family and friends.

>> absolutely. also this morning, the company that owns madison square garden, radio city music hall and other famous new york venues says that all lawyers who work at firms representing a client suing them are banned. msg entertainment is denying entry to anyone on its exclusion list, from attending concerts or sporting events. here's what's a key part of this. they are using facial recognition technology to do it. cnn's omar jiminez is covering this story. this is remarkable. "a," because of the facial recognition aspect, but "b," it's not just the attorneys who are involved in the suing. it's any attorneys that work at firms that are representing those who are suing these venues. >> and i think that was the surprise for a lot of people. it's like, i'm not even involved in the litigation of this, and all of a sudden, i am banned, at least temporarily as well. and it's part of what new york attorney general letitia james is concerned about here. not just potentially dissuading those from holding madison square garden entertainment potentially accountable, but also the technology involved with it.

msg maintains that they are fully within their rights. >> come up on matching somebody on a facial recognition list. >> he was recognized on facial recognition cameras, then confronted. >> are you benjamin norry? >> yes. >> this is how lawyer benjamin norman was greeted. >> the ticket has been revoked and you are not permitted in the building. >> it's because norren works for a law firm representing ticket brokers in a lawsuit against madison square garden entertainment. all of the roughly 60 lawyers at his firm are also banned until the litigation is resolved. >> we received a letter from msg stating that because of this litigation, all attorneys in our firm, even those attorneys who have nothing to do whatsoever with the litigation, will be barred for the duration of the litigation. >> reporter: the firm's co-founding partner has been a season ticket holder for 47

years. he believes here, he's being retaliated against. >> the focus of their ban is to dissuade people from suing madison square garden. if you have to think about, do i have a choice of being banned and representing somebody, somebody is going to say, i don't need that aggravation. i'm not going to take that. >> reporter: their firm is among dozens temporarily banned from msg properties, including radio city music hall, while they represent clients suing the garden. new york attorney general letitia james believes they may be violating state and city laws, writing to them in part, forbidding entry to lawyers representing clients who have engaged in litigation against a company may dissuade such lawyers from taking on legitimate cases. days later, madison square garden emphasized it's a private business and incomp compliance all laws, writing in part, the attorneys prohibited from

attending includes money grabbers who capitalize on the misfortune of others. this includes attorneys representing ticket scalpers, personal injury claims, and class action litigations, but does not include claims related to sexual harassment or employment discrimination. >> you get to say who you serve. and if it's somebody who is suing you and trying to put you out of business or take your money from you, right, et cetera, you have a right to be, yes, a little unhappy about it. >> you know, it doesn't seem like they're letting up. if anything, they've been doubling down. >> no, no, tripling down, even. >> some experts believe it's a slippery slope and not just the discretionary power of who else could be flagged in the future, but one method being used to enforce it. even if it is legal. >> i have read their privacy policy. they explicitly say that the biometrics that they capture from you can be used for any purpose that would benefit their economic interest. there's all sorts of things they could be doing with face recognition, and there's so much

minimal transparency around it, because they're a private company. >> some don't believe it should be used at all. >> it's so primed to be misused. it's so prone to discrimination. and i am terrified of the day where we allow companies to use so many forms of tracking and surveillance that, you know, we end up in the middle of one of the largest cities on the planet without any place we can actually go, while keeping our privacy. >> now, madison square garden says they've been using facial recognition to help create a safe environment since 2018. but there are a lot of factors here that people are concerned about. they've gone until february 13th to respond to attorney general james' inquiries. obviously, though, still an ongoing battle here. >> yeah, and not just for this, specifically, but facial recognition technology writ large. omar, that was a great report. thank you so much. >> totally fascinated by it. thank you very much. well, there is a growing debate over the role of race in the police beating and death of tyre nichols.

while all five ex-officers are black, could their actions be racially motivated? van jones has a fascinating new piece on this. he's here to explain. piece of c. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion t trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on. find your beat your moment of calm find your potential then own it support your immune system with a potent blend of nutrien and emerge your best every day with ergen-c every day, millis of things need to get to where they're going. and at chevron, we're working to help reduce the carbon intensity of the fuels that keep things moving.

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people don't know what those five police officers did to our family. and they really don't know what they did to their own families. they have put their own families in harm's way. they have brought shame to their own families. they have brought shame to the black community. >> there's a lot to talk about. that was rowvaughn wells talking about the former memphis police officers who were involved in the violent death of they are son, tyre nichols. the five officers that have been charged with nichols' death are all black, but wells points out the race of the officer isn't as important as the race of the victim. it's a point our next.

that is none other than mr. van jones. cnn political commentator. van, hello to you. thank you for joining. look, a very nuanced conversation, i'm so glad you're doing this. let me just give our viewers a glimpse of what you're saying and we'll go into the discussion. you write in this piece, it's always been too simplistic to look at police abuse or misconduct as white cop kills unarmed black man and you add, when it comes to police violence, race does not matter, but possibly not the way you think. at the end of the day, it is the race of the victim who is brutalized, not the race of the violent cop. that is more relevant in determining whether racial bias is a factor in police violence. and violence. so explain what you're talking about here to our viewers. >> well, i do think that this is an opportunity for us to have a deeper conversation. you might ask if you have a black police chief, as you do, a majority black police force, as

you do, and five black officers, as you do, certainly racism has nothing to do with this case, and i think that that is not right. what you have to begin to look at is if the overwhelming number of victims of police abuse are black in memphis, as they are, as disproportionate, as they are, then racial bias is a factor. how could that possibly be? it's because the culture of policing. there are certain neighborhoods where they are a warrior mentality. this is a war zone. you have to do what you've got to do, you have to jump out. in other neighborhoods the same police department treats with a servant mentality, with a protector mentality. if those two mind-sets line up with this is a poor black community, we are a war zone, we will be warriors, we will do whatever we have to do and the affluent white communities we're going to protect people, then you wind up with racial profiling, racial violence, even when the cops are black.

>> reading your piece, van, i thought about what james foreman, professor at yale lawsuit who wrote that book "locking up our own" says and he was quoted this weekend and he said blackness shouldn't shield you from all of the forces that make police violence possible. it's interesting because it seems like the first time at least recently that our country is having to face having a much more knew appsed conversation about race and policing and that's your point. >> first of all, i love james foreman. >> me, too. >> we were in law school together. his mother is my godmother so we did talk about this, we are looking at this the same way. listen, this is only a discussion at a high level. at the community level people know. cops a lot of times they are not black, they're blue. they are often trying to show and prove to other white officers that they can be just as stuff and just as brutal or even more brutal than the white cops. ice cube talked about that in a famous hip hop song which i can't quote the name of it but

he said don't let it be a white and a black cop because they will slam you down to the street top, black police showing out for the white cop. james baldwin talked about this phenomenon of black police officers being more brutal than the white cops. the idea that some people had if you integrate the police force, if you have a bunch of black police evan sh everybody will be safe. black faces in high places don't make you safe if there are not checks and balances and systems of accountability. any system without checks and balances will tend toward corruption and abuse, that's why you have meat inspectors not because we hate butchers, that's why you have building inspectors not because you hate construction workers, but because if you don't have adequate oversight and everybody in the department knows in that neighborhood you can do whatever you want, people will begin to act terribly and all too often even with majority black departments it's the black communities where unlawful police violence takes place, there is no accountability, there is no punishment and it

gets worse and worse and worse. thankfully in memphis this police chief has stepped up, but don't act like just because you have black police officers they could not be targeting black communities for misconduct because clearly here they are. >> van, you are well-connected in washington, you know this, and i have a question because this has renewed the focus on police reform and what that could potentially look like coming from capitol hill, every lawmaker is being asked about this, but jim jordan yesterday said, this is a quote, the democrats always think it is a new law that is going to fix something that terrible. we kind of think that no law is going to fix that. what do you think of that? what could they do actually here? >> well, first of all, if you had that attitude toward law breakers then why have any laws because you will always have law breakers that doesn't mean you don't have laws and don't try to enforce them. there are some things we are not even talking about that we should be. federal money goes to local law enforcement every day and yet there is no standard for local

law enforcement to screen for sociopaths, for psychopaths at all. people don't know that. you literally have thousands of police departments, they are hiring every day, there is no federal standard to make sure we don't have sociopaths and psychopaths. start with that. if you don't want to deal with the racial aspect or other aspects start with that. why can't we have a federal standard that says if you are a sociopath or psychopath you can't be on the police force. there is so much room for improvement in terms of how the federal government both empowers and holds accountable local law enforcement that we haven't even begun to talk about. >> we had the mayor on this morning. i interviewed the police chief and she said it takes race off the table. eric adams said i don't necessarily understand with that, he understands what she was trying to say and you don't agree with that as well. there are critics online and just in general and i know you are going to go on twitter and respond to critics. here is your opportunity. what do you say to that because you have the mayor agreeing with you and others as well.

go on. >> well, i think there's some people that they don't understand the way that racism functions and if it's not a cartoon example of a white cop and an unarmed black person then they say race cannot happen. we know, don, self-hatred is real. people -- these messages that black people are violent, black people are unworthy, black people are suspect, they hit everybody. it's not just, you know, a few white guys listening to this, it's pervasive. all too often -- all too often even a black store owner might see a black kid come in and be suspicious, see a white kid come in and be solicitous and not even realize that he or she is playing out these same racial stereotypes they otherwise would oppose. it's not as simple. it's the race of the victim you have to track. if you have an overwhelming number of black victims you have a problem with racism even if there are black cops doing it. in most countries the human rights abusers look just like the people they are abusing and

that's what happens all around the world. >> van, you hit the nail on the head with this topic. this is exactly what was being discussed around dinner tables and people gathering this weekend, that's all i talked about, but all the cops were black, it can't be racist, would they have treated a white suspect -- it went -- good on you for doing this piece. >> thank you, van. >> thanks for having me. it's a great piece, everyone should read it. everyone should read it on cnn.com. we will see you tomorrow. thanks for being with us, "cnn newsroom" is now. s me access to the nasdaq-100 innovations,, like real time cgi. okay... yeah... oh. don't worry i got it! become an agent of innovation with invesco qqq

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