i'm jessica snyder at the supreme court, and this is cnn. top of the hour this monday

morning. i'm jim sciutto. >> i'm erica hill, and urgent calls for police reform following the police beating of ti tyre nichols. and also a push for police reform, and can any change get through this congress. here is attorney benjamin crump. >> we said that it is going to remind people of the rodney king video in 1992, and that was a watershed moment for america. and i believe that this video is a watershed moment for america, and what are our national leaders going to do? >> over the weekend the memphis police department took one step and terminated the so-called s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. unit that the police officered is belonged to,

and joining me is a house minority leader and also a candidate for mayor of memphis, and thank you for taking the time. >> thank you, jim, for having me. i appreciate it. >> and you saw the decision to disband the s.c.o.r.p.i.o.n. unit, and in your view, is this a problem with the particular police unit, or do you fear that there is a larger cultural problem given the horrible violent steps that the cops took in that video? >> thank you, again, for having me on the show to talk about this very important issue. i believe that just like many in the community that has been with me holding some group meeting with the people in the community, that it is a deeper problem within the one team within the unit, and we have to look more comprehensively at the

entire system, and this is from the community to the cops to the courts. because, you know, that we have, ben crump, himself, he said that we were a blueprint for what could be in terms of how swiftly we acted, but we also need to be a blueprint of what is going to be changing the culture of the entire criminal justice system. >> you mentioned police chiefs very quick, very critical comments about what you saw in the video, and of course, the district attorney working very quickly to charge these officers here. do you see some progress in the speed of those responses? >> i do feel that there is progress even with the fact that the mayor disbanded the units shortly thereaf afterwards, but when things are cultural or deeply institutional, it is going to be taking more time to

make the shift. i think about it in terms of my military career where we would say how long it takes to shift a battleship. it takes time for the boats to move, and so to move quickly with this one incident, but it is a bigger ship to move. >> i wonder if we can move the metaphor along, and looking at national legislation, and as opposed to the city level to have the freedom the make the changes, but to have events like this less likely nationally, that congress really has to move and come to an agreement where it was not able to after george floyd? >> i agree with you. we have been having conversations with the white house on this very issue, and this is to be with mccarthy and the opportunities before us, but

we have to look at the impact that immunity has had in this situation overall. so, i do believe that there is opportunity, but we have to have the courage to do it. i have a meeting, myself, today with the governor, and in his inaugural speech, and throughout the entire inaugural weekend the team was tennessee, the lead of the nation. so this is an opportunity for tennessee to lead the nation, and that is why this comprehensive review at least at our state level is something that we need to begin to do, and we are going to be pushing forward to do, and i do agree with you, that if we will deal with it at the national level, kit have a huge impact on communities across the country. >> steering the ship, and karen camper, we appreciate your joining us this morning. >> thank you so much. >> erica. >> one of the five police officers charged in the beating

of tyre nichols released a statement said that some of the questions remained is going to be required on what the police officer saw when he arrived at the scene, and quote, he was pepper sprayed, and whether desmond's actions crossed line. and so joining us is todd axle, the former chief of police there at st. paul, and so, thank you for joining us. and so you are saying that this should be about individual action, and all five officers who have been fired have been charged with second-degree murder and other charges, and do you think that it could be changed based on what you are hearing from him, and what you saw in the video? >> absolutely not. i may have been, and he is saying looking at the individual actions, but it is making up the collective. america needs to pay attention to the audio.

that is just as important as the vicious beating that we saw. you listen to them concoct the story afterwards, and he reached for my gun, he threw a punchment that is to unjustified force. pay attention to the audio, and that is why this is continuing to happen. >> chief, you in the wake of george floyd's arrest and george floyd's death, you asked all of the officers to watch that video, and you challenged them to try to put them in george floyd's shoes, and to think about that as they go about their jobs. did anything change after that? >> you know, we have a in the st. paul police department, and i'm not the chief anymore, but we have to get into the conversation about the culture of the agencies and policy really mean nothing without a

good solid culture. i remember in the wake of george floyd having conversations with the officers and having tears in their eyes and conversations in their eyes almost three years later with tears in their eyes and the same conversations, and we are disgusted with what we have observed on the video and heard on the audio. it is absolutely going to have to change. but there are things that can be done. i guarantee you that this is not, it was not a surprise by other members, and good members of the memphis police department who saw this happen, because officers don't come to work on any given day and decide to act in this egregious way. they have done this before, and what is monitored is managed. >> and just to follow up on that point. how do you weed that out, right? is that part of the training? how do you look out for, you know, the chief in memphis was very clear and calling this inhumane, right, among other

adjectives to describe this behavior, and how do you weed that out based on what you saw if you believe that behavior, that instinct was already there? >> yeah, you have to hire the heart first and foremost. someone who has humanity, and understands the job of the police department is to build trust with the community. you have to operate under the philosophy of the bank of trust and making deposits each day, and interactions with the diverse communities across the country, because we know it takes one incident, one incident to wipe out the entire bank deposit out that is what has happened. and the 1 million police officers in the country are suffering again as the result of a few people who went out there, and decided to kill another human being under the color of law, and it is absolutely disgusting. it can change, and it does not have to be this way, and there are things that we can do to

make sure that this does not happen. >> so talking about what could be done, and what didn't happen in washington, and could this be a moment for more action, and the question of whether legislation is the issue here or more hiring for the heart as we heard, and more about the training and how the two work together, and what do you see is the path forward, chris? >> i don't know. because i sat there with ben in washington, d.c. and a lot of the politicians private offices trying to get the george floyd bill passed, and the moment passed. and also, people cannot look for their own motives and you cannot listen to just the union, and so you have to know at the local level also. and the departments know who the problems are, and they don't hold them accountable until someone is killed. >> so as we were talking to

karen camper, and she said on a national level, that there are things that can be done that would have a massive level on the national level that would trickle down, but if we can do more things on the local level it would trickle-up, and looking at this, chief at the way that things are playing out, and so is there a plu blueprint that y can see that would be actions on a legislative level that would keep this conversation going? sorry, chief, for you. oh, i think that we may have lost that audio, but chris, as we are looking at that, and you have been in the meetings as you point out, and always the back and forth of where things need to happen, and don't need to happen, and i noted it earlier over the weekend of the lawmakers and you have congressman jordan saying, yeah, things need to be done, but there is nothing in the george floyd act that would pertain here, and i am throwing up my

hand, because this one bit of legislation does not solve all of the problems, and do you see a way of breaking through the barrier? >> yes. it is so simple. local level also. internal affairs. supervisors who get these reports. i have had so many cases where the officers did what they did in this video, and they made up a story, and they were not r repr reprimanded, and not reprimanded. it is clear. it is right there. and you need to do your job and we need independent boards and some sort of independent boards to prosecute. we have to be watching. >> chris stewart and todd axle, i appreciate your joining us today, and the work that you are doing. thank you. >> thank you. new this morning, cnn has learned that the parents of tyre nichols is going to attend the

president biden's state of the union address and guests of the black caucus. >> and also, brandon shea who disarmed the half moon bay gunman invited by congresswoman chu of california. and also, what we are learning about at the debt ceiling compromise. and a man who is accused of kidnapping and torturing a woman in oregon, and why he is using apps to find his next victim. >> that is frightening. and florida has banned high schools from teaching a.p. african-american studies, but one pastor however, he is offering his church as a classroom for the course. >> we have to know our history,

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the debt ceiling battle is entering a critical new phase with effects for the economy. this week, house speaker kevin mccarthy will meet with the president with an eye on the cuts, but the president says it is a nonstarter. >> there have not anyone in america who does not agree that there is wasteful spending in washington. so i want to sit down and work

out an agreement to move forward to put us on the path to balance and at the same time not put any of the debt in jeopardy at the same time. >> the cnn chief congressional correspondent manu raja is on capitol hill. meeting is a good first step, but is this really about negotiating? >> that is the question, because they cannot agree on what they are meeting on, and speaker kevin mccarthy says this is the opening salvo of negotiations bsh and the white house says this is a typical meeting that the president has with new members of congress, and he says that has spoken with the democrats and now he is meeting with the house speaker, and he says that cuts are nonnegotiable. he says it is a nonstarter for republicans who want this to be

tied to some cuts, and speaker mccarthy did not say exactly which, but the cuts to the social security and the medicare which democrats have hammered him over says that is not part of the talks, and just discretionary cuts, and in some defense programs, and what programs speckly the republicans want to demand or propose, and what is being caulked about, they don't want to anything whatsoever, and so we will have to see where the wednesday meeting leads, but ahead, both sides are posturing, and a risky standoff that could lead to first default that led to the first one in 2011 and it did not lead to a default, but a downgrade because of the

brinksmanship, and the posturing is in full force right now. guys? >> manu raja on the capitol hill. and david chalian, there are budget negotiation, and you follow the elections and count the votes on each side, and negotiate the bottom line, but the budget has been passed, and the issues have been passed through congress, and in effect, you have a threat here from the republicans to default on the debt if they don't get new cuts to the deal. is that the essential framework of what is happening here? >> yeah, i love that manu referred to the posturing phase, because it lasts longer than anything else here in washington, the posturing phase. what you are saying, jim, it is important here, and understand the nuance. the white house's position is that we cannot negotiate on the actual raising of the debt

piece, because the white house has to deal with paying the money already spent. and the white house says they are more than happy to have a conversation with kevin mccarthy and the republicans about the overall government spending going forward an reducing spending, and what have you, but at least, you can see that it is going to be semantics, and the white house will engage on discussions of reducing government spending, and discretionary programs like the speaker would like them to, but it is not tied to the business of raising debt ceiling. >> and this is because it is two different thing, because the money has been spent in terms of the debt ceiling, and so it is going forward. and a lot of discussion last week about the intelligence committee, and speaker mccarthy as he can do, unilaterally removing adam schiff and eric

swalwell, and imam omar, and that would require a full vote from the white house, and congresswoman jayapal says that would require a majority, and does speaker mccarthy have the votes? >> i don't think that jayapal should be the vote counter for how many votes kevin mccarthy has. >> you bipartisan here. it is a beautiful thing. >> never the less, there is reason to be skeptical that he has the votes locked up right now, because we have seen a couple of the members of the house of the republican house saying that they are not at all interested in pursuing this, and not at all interested in removing omar from the committee. and now he has four votes to play with, and two of them are

declared opponents to this, and others who will deflect? that is something that he does not understand, and i doubt he will bring it to the floor without knowing that the votes are there, and we won't see a repeat of the speaker election, if you will, on this one, and if he is bringing it to the floor, he will know that he has the votes to bring it to conclusion. >> donald trump was back on the campaign trail to new hampshire, and north carolina, and the dynamics of the race is that he has real challengers, and some public, and others not so public inside of his own party that he is aware of, and he took aim at some of them, so take a listen. >> nikki haley called to talk to me, and i said, go by your heart to run. and she has publicly said that i would not run against my president, and he was a great president. and remember, that florida was close for a while, and closed the beaches, and they are trying to rewrite history. >> him is talking about desantis

getting credit for keeping florida open. is he worried about the rivals within his own party? >> well, sure. he understands that he's in a different political position than he has been in the past. he understands that he is twice impeached former president, one that just had a case laid out to american people about his role inciting an insurrection, and the 2022 mid-term campaign performance has caused a lot of questions within the party, and whether or not stick with the trump is to insure rick tri. but looking at that video, you can see how he treats the potential rivals as potentially does not think that nikki haley is as key as desantis, and so he

said he told her to run if she wants to run, and he told desantis that debate over the beach, and that is to be a topic of debate there if they should end up on a debate stage together. and now, police are asking this man to take a look at this man's face, because he is accused of extremely violent assaults on women, and police warn he may be using dating apps to look for his next victims. ts with its forms and submit the applilication. go to getrefunds.com to learn more. (swords clashing) -had enough? -no... arthritis. here. aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? redus inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme.

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there is a manhunt for a suspect in a brutal kidnapping who police say may be searching online right now for his next victim. the man is accused of torturing a woman in oregon, and she is in critical condition. >> the local authorities are warning that he is extremely dangerous, and may be using dating apps to evade capture, and also to find future victims. it is quite a warning for police to say that he is still maybe out there looking for future victims. lucy kafanov with the latest. >> yes, jim. the district attorney says that he tried to killed the victim in

grand pass, oregon, while torturing her, and secretly confining her in a place that she is not likely to be found. she was found beaten unconscious, and foster fled the scene where police found her, and then police raided a property where they found a bunch of evidence, including his car, and they believe he was helped by a 68-year-old woman who was arrested for hindering prosecution, but he managed to escape leaving this small community on edge. listen to police chief. >> i am always concerned about our community, and this individual's behavior clearly shows that he is capable of doing anything to anyone within our community. everybody is hurt by this. we typically think that this could not happen in our small community of 40,000 people. but this can happen anywhere in the united states. >> now, the police released

several photos of him, and they are saying that they are warning that foster may try to change his appearance by shaving his beard or hair color, and they are saying to pay extra attention to the eyes and the facial structures because it is difficult to changes and it is not the first run-in with the law. there were two separate charges against him in nevada in 2019. he was charged with battery and his ex-girlfriend said that he tried to strangle her in a rage in 2019 after another man texted herment m her. while that case was in court, he was also arrested for attacking another woman in 2019, and she told police that he tied her up for two weeks and strangled her and burned her with lye, and he ultimately plead to plea deals, and served 30 months in maximum prison, and then gived credit

for 30 days in the first case, and he was extremely troubled that this man was not behind bars in nevada. >> yeah, who wouldn't be. >> lucy s appreciate it. thank you. in south carolina, the trial is back in session for alex murdaugh, the former attorney accused of shooting his wife and son. and now, being cross-examined is a person who was in the vehicle when murdaugh was first questioned on the scene. >> the prosecutors played never before seen video, and you can see murdaugh crying there as they found the bodies of the wife and son, and they say he also touched them. >> i tried to turn him over, and i figure it out. his cell phone popped out of the pocket, and then i started do something with it thinking that

maybe, but then i put it back down really quickly. then i went to my wife, and i -- i mean i could see -- >> did you touch maggie at all? >> i did. i touched them both, i tried to take, and i tried to do it as limited as possible, but i tried to take pulse on both of them. and, you know, i called 911. pretty much right away. >> well, the account there speaking of touching them is raising questions, because the investigators say that murdaugh was clean as they described ate at the scene, and he did not appear to have any blood on him, and we will give you further updates from the testimony. and also, this morning, the ukrainian president is online as

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hospital. >> russia's relentless and deliberate attacks in ukraine continue. a single attack killed one person and injured three more, and we are seeing many more like et everyday. sam kiley is in the capital of kyiv. i wonder what the ukrainian's president and words were for the current description of play. >> well, he is making increasingly loud pleas for strategic weapons, jim. you will recall that last week there was this big constravistry when the americans and the germans would break the seal on the weapons, but those are not strategic weapons, but battlefield weapons and although

more strategic and potent for what the ukrainians want, but what they really want is long-range missiles, and they are not getting them, because the united states and other countries are fearing that the longer range missiles will be used to attack inside targets inside of russia, itself. that is a slightly peculiar argument given the enormously long border between ukraine and russia means that if the ukrainians wanted to attack targets within the russian borders, it could do so. and jim, the president here, he has right back to 11 months ago pleaing with the international community to allow the fighting of jet bomber jets, and potentially get hold of m-16s and some in the warehouses of

eastern europe, but it is resisted. >> the f-16 would be seen by some as an escalation with russia, and that is something that we will have to watch closely. sam kiley in ukraine, thank you. and now, a man facing years in prison for social media posts that criticized russia's invasion of ukraine. the man is under house arrest with a ankle bracelet described because of threats against the russian army and terrorism. >> she is placed on a list of terrorists and extremists for the instagram story over the explosion of a ukrainian bridge. her lawyer tells cnn that she could get three years for that post alone, and up to seven years for charges that she justified terrorism. we will continue to monitor that. up next here, we will speak

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nonprofit that runs the advanced placement program is going to release the updated framework for the african-american studies. up to now it is a pilot version, and then 60 schools became the target of governors like florida's ron desantis who want

to limit the discussion of history and race. so now, a pastor is stepping in to make sure that students get that course. pastor andy allen is joining us. this is an interesting update to is the story since we have been following it out of florida. what made you decide to open up your doors here and to hold the class there at your church? >> well, when i heard my governor say that this class was of little educational value, and that it was sending the message to, you know, black and brown students that they are of little educational value, and i wanted to make sure that i sent the message that they are of immeasurable value, and that when the history is written, that they will be filling the pages and the governor is of little value. >> and you thought that you could offer the curriculum once it is released but the students could not then take the a.p.

course for credit, but that has changed. >> yes, the professors have been stepping up at the high school and college level who have stepped up to offer it for credit, and also for the general population, because if there is anything that wants the people to make people want to take it more is banning it. so, i would like to thank the governor. >> and there is something about the real history of the united states, and what we have all learned over time is what is taught now, and what is available, and it is important to set the facts straight when we are learning what has happened here, and the pilot course, and the revisions were always set to be released wednesday based on the experts and educators dealing with the class, and it is interesting that the college board sent a letter to the members in the light of the brouhaha that the

framework will be not be sent or the framework. and governor desantis is leading to victory that by questioning course that he had not seen that he had somehow led to changes in the course in which he had zero input. when you are looking at this, do you believe that the concerns of the governor are genuine, and looking at the curriculum is he concerned about education? >> we have a governor of florida more concerned of running for president on the back of the black and brown youth and trans kids than he has interest in the well-being of children. so, you know, actually, if he is listening, i invite him to enroll in the class, because it would help him to be a better governor and person, and we all need to have the history to do better so we don't repeat the history of the past. >> any pushback from the community or the congregation?

>> well, not the congregation, and we will get some pushback after this interview, but the people who we have created with partners, and we will partner with the woodson museum, and the african-american museum here in petersburg, and others who want to step in to partner because they always believe it is the right time to do a right thing no matter the consequences that the governor may threaten. >> is it changing at all the way you approach your own work? >> well, i follow a guy jesus who was executed by the state. so i am kind of in the line of work of standing up to the state when it has gone too far no matter the consequences, and so this is the most important thing that we can be doing at this moment in the state of florida as a church. >> why is it that you believe it is the most important? is it about setting the record straight, is it is about opening up a conversation -- what is it to you that speaks to you as the

most important work in florida? >> again, it is sending the message to young black students that they are of immeasurable value. the history of their ancestors is so important not only for them to know, but for all of us to know so we can do better, and when they are able to hear their stories being told and when we are able to learn the correct version of the mistakes that we made in the past, only then can we go forward and do better. >> pastor andy oliver, keep us posted and we would love to hear some updates on the class. >> thank you, erica. our apologies to our friends in san francisco and cincinnati, the super bowl is set. and it is going to feature a couple of history-making firsts.

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super bowl lvii is set with the kansas city chiefs and the philadelphia eagles taking place in two weeks, well, actually, in two weeks we will know who won. >> it is the first time two black quarterbacks will start, and first time two brothers will face each other, and that is one happy mom there in the stadium, and tough decision who will rout for. coy wire is joining us with what to expect. >> yes, the eagles, and the chiefs with the top two teams and top two quarterback, and

this is the first time two black starting quarterbacks in the super jalen hurts and patrick mahomes. and now, last year, cincinnati beat the chiefs in overtime, and bad blood was boiling over in this one with mahomes limping all of the game, and 15 seconds to go, and the game is tied 20-20 and mahomes is hit late out of bounds by joseph ossai, and he was crying afterwards when he saw butker kick the field goal to allow the chiefs to win. and in the game with the eagles and the niners, brock purdy, the third string quarterback was hit on the elbow by hassan reddick, and they put in fourth string quarterback, but he, too, was

knocked out of the game, and so the eagles cruised to a victory. this super bowl is going to be fraught with headlines. the kelse brothers are going to be facing each other, two kids from cleveland and both drafted to the nfl, and they are bothing to be headed to the hall of fame, and no brothers have done that, and each has won a super bowl, and mother and dad and brother, what are they going to do? that is the question. >> i wonder how many games that mom and dad have gone through with youth football and the list has to be gone. >> and they were the taxi carrying those guys to every game and practice. >> coy wire, thank you so much. >> you got it. >> thank you for all of us being with us today. i'm erica