tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN January 30, 2023 10:00pm-11:00pm PST
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and the police department also revealed that a toll of several officers that after the incident. five as you know have been fired and charged with second degree murder. mr. nichols funeral is on wednesday. talking in a moment about how this latest incident has become a national conversation and not just a local story. first of, cnn's nick valencia brings us up to date. what more are we learning about the three members of the fire department who were fired? >> they were a part of the first responders there on the scene. and they include the emts we learned about last week that were put on administrative leave. a third was a driver of the fire engine that showed up on the scene but reportedly did not get out of the engine. and according to the fire department investigation, these individuals were initially told that they were responding to an individual who had been pepper sprayed. we knew after watching the video that it was much worse than that. but according to their investigation, they found that these individuals did not give adequate patient assessment of tyre nichols and that their actions do not meet the expectations of the memphis fire department. so that they were terminated as a result. >> two other members of the
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police department have been relieved of duty according to the authorities. is it clear what relieved of duty actually means? is it expected they will also be charged? i talk to the district attorney who obviously would not say because it's not part of the investigation. >> in this case, it means administrative leave. in these cases, there's paid administrative leave but the memphis police department has not confirmed that to us. we did reach out to them and they did not identify one of the officers, so we don't know their exact involvement or lack thereof. the second officer though was identified as officer preston. who has been with the memphis police department since 2018 and we confirmed, one of the videos we saw last week released by the city of memphis was his body camera. now, in the video we are about to show, you which we should warn you is graphic, you can hear officers deployed his taser. and say remember, tyre nichols ran away from the first incident with the officers. listen to what he had to say about what he hopes happens when officers eventually catch up with nichols. >> they found him.
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hi. barn and all, them where they're chasing. to stop his ass. >> it. i hope they stop him. calling for the, cars martin chasing. now, was not at the second scene according to his attorney. and the police department. we did reach out to the police department when we found out about him being relieved of duty. asking them why did it take so long if he was released weeks ago along with the other officers? they did not directly respond to that anderson. releasing a statement saying that they are committed to transparency and we should expect more personnel decisions and actions in the coming days. and you mentioned the district attorney, we reached out to see if they are expecting to charge them fill. they did not respond to that but are looking at everyone who was on the scene. that day, anderson? >> nicholas, you appreciate, joining us former illinois had congressman. service by his director of
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communications in the previous administration. former new york democratic congressman and cnn law enforcement and intelligence analyst john miller. that lets true. >> god bless you. obviously we've watched this video. it's sickening. what do you make of what has been done up till now? >> clearly not enough. because this is just the latest iteration of police brutality that we are seeing. whether it is in memphis tennessee or somewhere in california. or multiple places in minnesota or elsewhere. it just brings to mind the summer of 2020 for me. the summer following the brutal murder of another black man, george floyd. it is described as the largest protest movement in this country since the original civil rights movement. there was so much momentum around real, tangible police reforms that eventually took the form
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of the george floyd justice in policing act. which we did end up getting through the house, which stalled in the senate. you wonder, how you can give people the faith that things will get better, given what they've seen in the previous years. >> john, the police, what do you think about how fast the district attorney has acted in terms of bringing charges? >> the district attorney acted in lightning speed. i think it was led by the chief. two important things here, which is won, the chief conducted the internal investigation through her own office very quickly. and then fired the officers, the district attorney followed with a criminal piece, and then charge the officers. but, with the chief didn't do, what we see so often which is the prosecutor say, will please hold off on any administrative action until we do the criminal piece. and you have officers on the payroll for years. we went through that with eric garner in the nypd at the request of the attorney general of the united states,, so this was, this was swift, this was
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efficient and so far effective. >> i want to play something that tim scott set on the floor just this evening tonight urging colleagues to act. >> i take the issue of policing in america seriously. i warn our body to see it not as an issue of republicans versus democrats. but as good people, standing in the gap, elected to do a job that we all ran to do. let's do our jobs. we can make a difference in this nation. have a duty to intervene, within the law of the land on the federal level. it could've made a difference. -- >> so, there wasn't effort and their two police reform bills that never got anywhere, didn't get through the house, didn't get through the senate. is anything gonna change? now
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>> i don't think so. i think it's plausible. what time says their, is the absolute right thing. he's the best for republicans personally this. i think he's exactly the right. percent >> but he was leading it on the george floyd act, and it didn't go anywhere? >> this is the problem, right now there's a vested interest, everyone's quiet right now. and i can tell you what's going on in the house of representative. it's like what stay a little quiet, let's see what this is, let's say the things we need to say on this. but ultimately, it will be politicized. personally, i think lifting up unity isn't necessarily the right thing to do. i'm willing to talk about, double what ends up happening it turns out being, the fact that we -- caucus if you. well our viewpoint. and there's a let's just -- police over here, which is related to what you had with defund the police. although -- >> lifting, the people condensed two officers in civil court for civil penalties.
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which they currently. can't >> qualified immunity is nonsense. people have labeled qualified immunity as the police are immune from lawsuits, what it means as they have qualified immunity if they were doing their jobs, and doing it the way that a reasonable person who's well-trained would've carried it out. they can certainly be sued, if they're negligent like anyone else. does someone reasonable standard. it's just you can't ask people to go into those kinds of risks every day. and then say, by the way if anything goes wrong. your personally on the hook for. at that's will qualified immunity is, but it's been rewritten into this bulletproof -- >> people don't understand that, but i just want to make one other point which is this whole police reform argument as adams said, it's not one way or the
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other, if you want a more professional, more capable policing world, among the 850,000 cops in the united states. you don't do that by defunding. in germany, the cops get two years of training. in finland, they get three years of training. these guys may get this many weeks, that many months. but that's it. they're paid here, not there, if you want to approve policing. you improve the quality of the candidates. the training they get, the supervision they have. and not just ripping away their authority, and their money. >> really quickly, i had the privilege of speaking with rolando less, tyre nichols mom, another network today. and full stop, every american's heart breaks over the. as it's a moment to set aside red, blue, white, and come up with a solution. the george floyd policing bell, the reality is there's many things i agree with, and there's a lot of things that will never get enough votes to pass in the senate. the justice, aqua was championed by tim scott. and cory booker became so -- in 2020. there's a lot of this stuff. it probably does not do enough. but i think with something this brutal, this
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heartbreaking, this wrong in our society. and incremental changes in place to go. i would encourage people -- on both sides of the aisle to at least see what the small change we can make. >> i wanna be clear. a lot of folks are characterizing not necessarily here, but in broader society the george floyd justice in policing act asked some radical departure from the status quo. the fact,, is the international chief of police organizations supporting it. the fraternal order of police organizations. >> at this point -- policemen conduct to stop officers from getting jobs all through. air and banned racial and religious profiling federally. opening qualified immunity -- banning chokehold. no-knock warrants. they went through the house twice but not through the senate. >> absolutely, this isn't radical stuff, it's not -- to my, knowledge one democrat in the entire united states house of representatives has explicitly come out in support of. this is about making sure that there's finally accountability. and through
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that accountability, hopefully change the culture of policing, we've had body cameras obviously and these officers still didn't think that that would be enough to create some kind of accountability. thankfully, there were other cameras present that showed us different angles of that brutality that we saw. >> we'll take a quick break. john miller, -- former president difficulty making the 2024 campaign about 2024. despite his promise to look forward and not back. cnn's harry enten's gonna join us, with new numbers -- and his prospects. and later, a real look ahead between house speaker mccarthy, the debt ceiling, the white house negotiating overpaying the countries bills and mccarthy saying it would be irresponsible and childish. at adp, we use data-driven insights to design hr solutions to provide flexible pay options and greater workforce visibility today, so you can have more success tomorrow. ♪ one thing leads to another, yeah, yeah ♪ so, you're 45. that's the perfect age to see some old friends,
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he struck this 12 after many conversations of the last couple months with multiple advisers who urged him to put his -- behind. i'm heap insisted a source telling kaitlan collins at least 30 people were offered positions -- have turned them down at least for now. suggesting that they may join sometime later. join the panel is harry enten. melissa, is this gonna be regurgitate should have pressed grievances? >> i'm sure he's on when turbines. it's the one thing i might agree with. he did not mention the birds. listen, it's been grievance paddling. one thing i was struck by over this weekend. is he gave an interview or someone questioned the low energy campaign he rolled out. he said, i'm angry with -- if truck me first as funny, but that's the worst thing you want from an elected official. you can be righteously angry if you're at war. or you're addressing
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poverty. but he's talking about anger grievance directed at him. because of the 2020 election that he wants to re-litigate. he's the weakest he has been, but don't sleep on him. there's, african speak to this better than, me and our polls that see him taking up, and he's outperforming desantis by double digits. i still put this desantis is the future, i have a hard time believing. >> congressman king is a member, desantis has proven on an international level -- >> he's unproven, what he's shown is that he can be, if somebody wants to go against trump, but still be cool with desantis is the guy to go. do we gotta move past trump, but i want to own the libs, on the left. and that's desantis is. mid when donald trump gets full in this. he's wearing to do, he misses the campaign jail. i certainly don't think it's a done deal like al-assad. that it's gonna be rhonda sanchez. plus, if you look at history, very rarely if ever at this point in an election as the front runner in a primary hinted at being the person that gets a. -- fred thompson from 2008. >> everyone's like our friend thompson was supposed -- to
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>> everyone's like our friend thompson was supposed -- to >> same thing. >> all of this talk about how rhonda scent is is going to potentially defeat. donald trump in a primary and have a better shot at winning a general election how do you do that, reasonably, by going to his right on every issue. and then expecting voters in a general election to accept the fact that you're trying to ban ap african american studies in the state of florida. it's weird stuff that people would. reject including white suburban voters, certainly in the district i represent. >> that's the challenge by the way. there's a lot of folks like about ron desantis. we both knew when he was a congressman. -- he's highly educated. he's done well in the economy of florida. but he decides to lean into these cultural wedge issues that are -- general election. >> what are the numbers? joe >> here's the situation. to get to a general election you need to win a primary. and if you look right now what rhonda scent this is doing it's working for him we have a tram line going back since the beginning of last year what you could see's round of is climbing higher and higher and donald trump dropping. you see january to june of 2020. to desantis was 15%. then he jumped up to 23% in the middle of last year now is up 32% look at trump he's drop from 52% to 42% so margin that was 37 points is now down to just ten
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points. we've been talking a lot about donald trump, he seems low energy, right? not that interesting. like you, like me. i'm very low energy, anderson. that's -- harry low energy undone. if you, look americans are less interested in donald trump than they've been since the time declared that he was going to run for president back in 2015. we can see that angle searches. what we essentially sees look here, the fewest google searches since 2015 with this month for donald trump. that may be why he's coming out in the campaign trail. now trying to say, i'm high energy, but at this point voters aren't that interested. >> who else is there in the republican party, if there is a big field that helps him, even if it's a small field. desantis is bad enough. >> for a non trump winner, there's could be three candidates. let's take desantis, let's take trump, and there needs to be one person and that never trump lane but that other lane. there's a lot of people in that lane now that say they're gonna run for president. that's exactly what happened by the way in 2015. none of us took donald trump seriously. he was up 50% old-time. but there were 1000
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candidates. and that's what's gonna happen. by the, way those numbers say more to me about the need for this country to do things like rank choice voting, and reforms and how we do primary systems that the only way to make it to a general election nowadays is to be more and more extreme -- >> we just reelected ronna macdonnell -- after consistently losing elections. you don't beat trump by trying to out trump trump. marco rubio learned that in 2016 toward the twilight. it does not work in that to me is desantis is great weakness. as much as we want to make him the air apparent. i'd be looking to governor spoken didn't serve and his -- something like krista knew, who a purple state governor who served on glenn youngkin. there is a lane but it's. narrow and it's not really a fortress -- >> i heard mitt romney the other day being asked in an interview. he said he thought in the end, former president couldn't when reelection in a head to head matchup. do you think that's? true >> i think that's. sure donald trump cannot win in the head to head against joe biden. on the blind it as -- >> what gives you that confidence? >> with the ticket, i think it's right. are you talking
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about kamala vp? it's right. people look to the top of the ticket ultimately. and i think he's got a strong record to run. on frankly, there's enough people that don't want donald trump that i think that go with joe biden the same way they went last. time a very accomplished president in his first term, but when you talk about the reasons why people voted for joe biden. it wasn't out of excitement, it was because of the alternative. >> i would just add this, that's moral talking about, okay, it's not donald trump, and it's not round desantis. who could the republican nominee be? i'm not sure who that blanket could. be there totaling well into the 70s the two of them combined republican field that's the first time ever since the modern primary back in 1972 are yet to candidates combining for over 70% of the vote on the republican. side in the first time ever in which there were two candidates polling above 30%. that's gonna swallowed a lot of energy. this is not 2015, where you had basically a field of 10%, 5%, 6%. it's a field of two giants. and it's a field of everybody. >> nullified, us nikki haley or mike pompeo excite anybody? >> keep an eye to some degree and nikki. haley i think the only rain from nikki haley, who i respect. for if she runs away
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from trump. which is proven a capability to do. but at times gone back. to him, again next time on the debate stage can be sitting there and slack -- ministration. you need to say how you will be different, what your measures are. >> that's the big problem all these candidates have right now. you either need to be all and with donald trump, you need to be a complete sick -- to win the base over. or even if you explore running as we've seen. you're disloyal., so all these wannabe candidates are sitting around having a really tough time making decisions. i've lived that life of what lane you want to pick. trust me, you can pick the madeleine. >> we gotta take a quick break. harry's gonna go grab some. numbers -- key meeting on the calendar between house speaker mccarthy president mine in the debt limit. as fears grow than agreement might not be reached to avoid the nation's first ever default. the latest from capitol hill, next. >> some developments in the debt ceiling showdown. a meeting scheduled -- president biden the first face to face since mccarthy got the speakers. gavin cnn asked the president what's message would be to the republican leader ahead of their conversation. >> show you my budget, and i'll show you mine. >> okay, the white house said it's not gonna negotiate with house republicans on future spending clouds. in exchange
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for raising the country's debt ceiling, and paying for things that congress has already spent. mccarthy said today he doesn't think biden would want to be quote, irresponsible and childish. not sit and negotiate. he still hasn't specified exactly what he wants but he's now -- congressional correspondent jessica dean on capitol hill. what more do we know about this meeting, how is it gonna? go >> it's going great, anderson, you just laid it all out there. i think what's important to remember, is to zoom out and remember. this is the first meeting of what's going to be a really long, and drawn out process. what we're learning for democrats, and especially from the white house. is exactly what you heard from president biden. which is what they keep saying, same with senate democrats, is they want to see house republicans -- they want to force them to bring something, some hostile to the table. in the meantime, let's go to the gop in speakers kevin mccarthy. they're now trying to grapple with what exactly are they going to ask for and here's the state of play from mccarthy he needs to appease the house gop, and the hard-liners that got him into the speakership position that he made a lot of promises to. but he's also got to make it palatable that democrats are gonna go for a. that the white house is going to agree to it
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without being seen as caving in on all this. you add into that, this one wrinkle that when he was getting the speakership. he negotiated that one member can call for his ouster, if they're not pleased with house he's doing. things young lady who was, you know, mid 30s, couple of kids, recently went through a divorce. she had a lot of questions when she came in. i watched my mother go through being a single mom. at the end of the day, my mom raised three children, including myself. and so once the client knew that she was heard. we were able to help her move forward. your client won't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
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>> what could go? wrong >> welcome. wrong it's a recipe for quick success. that's kind of where the state of play is tomorrow, and tomorrow is just the opening. the opening act of all the. >> this is a very long dance, between them and a lot of other folks. the white house is refusing to negotiate speaker mccarthy's prepared -- is he prepared to make demands at this point? or is this kind of a forced me?
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>> it's a great question. at this point, no, they don't have specific demand. they're trying to figure out what this. says what we're understanding about one running from talking this or citizen listening to what their telegraphing right now is that they're looking into cuts in domestic spending. even cuts into military spending. they don't want to touch medicare and social security. the speaker made that very clear over the weekend on the sun -- that's an and title minutes can be political suicide. they're very cognizant of that they're trying to figure out exactly where they might be able to cotton again the tricky thing is it's a needs to patch 60 votes in the senate it's got a pass the highland course the president needs to agree to it as well. >> appreciate it. thanks, let's talk to our panel adam kinzinger, alyssa farah griffin, mondaire jones. congressman kinzinger, are you concerned about. this
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>> i'm really concerned in 2011 i came in with the majority making team and we dealt with the debt limit we barely made it through that. we were a lot less crazy in 2011 and we had a lot bigger majority we still do stock market tanked and it was -- first time america ever had a credit downgrade. which by the way, makes borrowing way they are expensive which is the most fiscally irresponsible thing to do. i'm worried, for me say this to the democrats. no come to the table with some budget proposal that actually does cut spending. we have 31 trillion in data don't think there's anyone with a straight face that can say that that sustainable. if the democrats actually can come forward with some reforms, cuts, whatever you want to call. it i think they could put reese publicans in a position where they're gonna be pressure to take that. more on democrats terms. but you never should be playing this game if you're republican
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with the debt limit. >> the owners should be on republicans. air to present a proposal for what they want to cut. the should not even be a point of negotiation to begin. whether you honoraria commitments, payer dads. >> saying they need to make -- >> i mean of course, a negotiation and that's to say that democrats can respond with something. if it's republicans who are saying, we want to cuts binding, even though they just said about that would've added haven't and 14 billion dollars by getting the i -- do the same thing in the house. they just did under kevin mccarthy but if they want to cut spending as they say they do they're also saying they don't want to cut social security and medicare even in the same breath saying they want to strengthen the program which is obviously privatization than they should come to the table with some proposal for -- >> lesson i was on the hill the difficult conservatives that we -- did cut cap in ballots, there's away kevin mccarthy should do isn't as a way that he will likely do it. which will be chaotic. what he should do is create a working group appropriators in budget committee members some of the moderates who can work with moderate democrats to say, what's palatable, what are your hard lives, these are some of ours, doing the work behind the scenes. -- because you have a june deadline, which is basically when extraordinary measures, the treasury has to keep the debt limit from being raised. i think he's gonna push
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it to the 11th, our and make concessions to his flank. they'll never vote for raising the debt ceiling. very clearly, kevin mccarthy, those are the folks that need to be negotiating. i'm findings markets, but they're not offering that trio. >> republicans aren't talking about cuts and deficit when it was the former president in office? >> there are no -- no party's simplest in this. everybody is created this deficit. what i'm saying, at the moment that we're at right. now it truly is unsustainable we added what 5 to 10 trillion dollars of debt during the pandemic it was the right thing to do to keep the economy going we're in a whole uncharted territory and now we need to get serious. and this shouldn't be based on the debt limit. that's a dangerous place to play it. but on the broader spectrum. we do need to have this discussion. and while yes, the onus is on the republicans to bring those cuts forward on the debt limit. the democrats still have most levels of government. they have the presidency, they have the senate, and frankly, they'll be responsible for how this era is judge when it comes to debt deficit. >> where the so-called moderates in the house republican side, five of them, to join with the 200, what will be 213 democrats once the race in virginia is resolved. and, say we're gonna do a discharge position. or not to agree that we should hold the economy
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hostage. for this. purpose >> which is by the way a possible scenario. i hope that's not what the. says >> -- do you think there's enough republicans that would do that? >> in the saint laurent. there would be. >> the point i'm trying to make, there aren't will moderate republicans anymore. now that my friend adam kissinger is no longer the house. >> the difficulty, i was helped to lead the less successful discharge possession. prior to, that have been 1980. this was about -- excellent. bank it wasn't a short process. >> can you explain quickly what
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i just charges? >> i discharges it is a prostituting people sign this petition. literally, at the front. how -- that forces the ball in the. florida nobody can stop. at a problem, as once you get to 18 because a time it needs to ripen, and needs to go through legislative days. so once you hit that threshold. it's still could be months before it comes to the floor. that's the dangerous, people one sign that intel or in the 11th hour. and by that, it's hard to move. >> keep your eyes on the dawn begins, brian fitzpatrick, the pro governance house republicans that understand the dangers of defaulting on our. that i think will be looking at ways that we can find some things that are palpable for a dozen, couple dozen house republicans to be able to pass the senate traditional. way i don't think a discharge petition just timing-wise is feasible. >> what are non starters for the white house? montero? >> i think the position that the white house has taken is that we're not gonna know she would terrorists. we the, white house would probably wait until kevin mccarthy were to offer a proposal as to where he wants to seek cuts made. >> if it has to go, get negotiated why not -- the smartest negotiating. why not just have the white house crowd and say, okay, here is some stuff. and get it going, jump into? at >> i disagree with adam. i don't think that the white house --
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>> i know nothing about negotiating. >>, look for all, in some ways it's unprecedented. we're gonna be the closest will ever have gotten to a default. in the history of this country. and that's unfortunate, it's a direct function of how extreme the republican party is at this very. our >> adam kissinger, thank you alyssa farah griffin, mondaire jones -- arrested, beaten, shot and now is a wanted man in hiding. speaking slowly to cnn how this protest managed to escape it's an incredible story. and he wants the world
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to know the ongoing fight for freedom in iran. >> as protesters keep on with the fight for freedom in iran. the hard-line government continues its crackdown. cnn spoke to one of hundreds of demonstrators, i man who barely escaped death, barely managed to escape the country with bullet fragments still lodged inside. adam he's vowing to return and fight on. cnn's jomana karadsheh has the exclusive, we want to warn you
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some of the images you'll see are graphic. >> it was one of the most terrifying visits to a merv iran. a protester side with arm russian forces trying to fend them off with a knife. shots are fired, before he falls to his knees. -- apparent intensive care, barely conscious with his parents by his side.
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>> translator: i had a severed artery. like i had 200 shotgun pellets of my body. i had serious wounds. even after i surrender, they arrested me. they beat me around 100 times in the had. and the rest of my body with natanz. when they were transporting me to the hospital, they shot me from a very close range with a shotgun. the thought that i would be dad. >> he survived, and with him a tale of unimaginable or. >> translator: i was a man who died, was brought back to life. as i'm speaking with you i still have 20 shotgun pellets still lodged in my body. >> he escaped around, a wanted man in hiding, speaking exclusively to cnn for his safety. he won't say where he is. >> i got out of the country through mountains, deserts will heavily believing. and very, very bad condition. i have died so many times before i got out of the country. >> as he lay in hospital, hanging on to life by a. threat he was charged with -- waging war against god. a crime punishable by death in the islamic republic. regime agents raided this hospital and dragged him to jail. >> when someone's taken from the icu, straight-up resin, this is the debt. students in president, i went through unbearable agony. because all
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my wounds were open. i use all to try and disinfect my wounds just a little bit. they badly tormented. me and they sent me to an army hospital that was not equipped to treat me. i was there and that condition, with both my hands, feet chain to the bad. people of this kurdish town protested for his release, his family played all they had to bail him out for medical treatment. and with the help of frenzy made it out of iran. >> i was a professional boxer, a fighter, i was so eager and my future, i had a plan to pursue the sport is a career. but because my like, and the rest of my body hasn't been severely injured, i cannot do that anymore. being away from my family, all the pressure they have entered because of me. is mentally tormenting me. i'm not feeling okay physically, or mentally. >> what do you want the world to know about what is happening inside iran right now? >> there are so many like me who sadly, gave their life. but their voice didn't reach outside. there are so many great girls and boys inside iran. only crime, we demand freedom, democracy and what all women to be equal to our man. we shouted, women, life, freedom and their response to assess bullets, torturing, raping prisoners. i saw many young people, 16, 17 year olds
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get called, they killed so many, they blinded so many. i swear to god, i cannot sleep at night thinking about all this. >> he remains undeterred, once he recovers he says, he's ready to go back and continue the fight for free iran. >> i have no regrets, i'm proud of what i did. i will give my life for my people, from iran. not one time, but 100,000 times. >> and jomana kardashian joins us live from unstable. it's remarkable he was able to get out. can you give us a broader sense of what's happening there on the ground with other protesters now? >> absolutely, anderson, we need to first mention we did reach out to the iranian government for comment on a report. and in his case, they did not respond to cnn's request for comment. the protests have subsided for the most part, we are still seeing some sporadic demonstrations taking place. mostly in parts of the country that are home to the country sunni minority. even, tonight we're getting reports of protests inside the kurdistan region. but in other parts of the, country the protest >> -- bid pushed underground. and people will tell you it's
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because of several factors. the weather being won, it's snowing, it's freezing, you've also got air pollution that shut down several cities. but, also the regimes ruthless response to these demonstrations that brutal crackdown has had a chilling effect. in fact thousands have been arrested, hundreds have been killed, including many, children at least four protesters have been executed many others facing the death penalty after right rights groups say are -- sean dry. all that had a chilling effect. but protest reasons we've spoken to, said this isn't over. they say it's far from over that this is a pause. the grievances are still there they say. the anchor has increased. it's a matter of time before the country wide protests resume. some are describing the situation, anderson, as a raging fire under the ashes right now. >> jomana karadsheh, we appreciated. donald trump's role in the 2016 hush money payment to stormy daniels before a grand jury. the former
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federal prosecutor with inside information on what happened when the department of justice looks into the same case, previously, that's next. >> earlier we told you the news that the da's office had begun presenting evidence to a grounding about donald trump's -- to porn star stormy daniels. that's candles one of many is that elie honig writes about in-depth in a fascinating new book out tomorrow. it's called untouchable, how powerful people get away with that. it includes revelations about sleazy figures like jeffrey epstein, harvey weinstein, and how others like them have successfully eluded justice for decades. how is that possible. elie honig, cnn analyst joins us. now a former assistant u.s. attorney with the southern district of new york. i don't know if you time this book, release without stormy daniels -- the stories office has tried to present evidence to a grand jury on. it you in the book, you have a behind the scenes look at how the justice
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department chose not to charge the former president? >> it's coincidental. happy coincidence. we're learning today that the manhattan da which the state level prosecutors presented evidence to gradually about that hash money's game. it turns, out i have the reporting on, that is that two years ago or learning for the first-time, that the feds, right across the street, my former office in the southern district of new york, considered whether to charge the same conduct federally and. what's interesting about on the scene, like a perspective from all the different players here,
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is that they decided not to charge donald trump on the hush money scheme. it's important to understand, why they chose not to. it wasn't because of the evidence, prosecutors actually felt they had sufficient evidence, to charge donald trump. opinions very debate, some felt it was close to the, line but others felt it was a strong case. but, ultimately the reason they held office partially political considerations, which i detail in the book. and because the southern district, this is in 2021 when donald trump's
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getting ready to leave. office they believed someone's going to charge him for something bigger, whether it's january six, what had just happened are the ukraine scandal, are the mueller obstruction, so as a result we really had this i believe unjust result. the only person who's been charged with this is michael cohen, who essentially was a pastor for these checks. we'll see if that changes. now changes. now >> you are an organized crime it's nice people focus more on me. ask your doctor about #1 prescribed, once-daily ingrezza. learn how you could pay as little as zero dollars at ingrezza.com ♪ ingrezza ♪
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book about the tactics that some very well-known wealthy people have used. and the politicians, and others have used to have a justice that are very similar to organized crime tactics. >> my mom's are this book now, she said to be the day, i knew we are prosecutor but even realize you're doing these crazy, dangerous, staff chasing after mob. figures as i sort of looked at the cases now, against various powerful figures. i kept saying parallels to what i learned from being an actual mob prosecutor. so many similarities in the tax. excuse for example, smart bosses,, bober otherize limit who they talk. do they know how to say just enough to make their message clear go without saying explicitly. >> it's very much the former presidents. mo >> 100 percent. >> there's plenty of examples of that another powerful bosses doing the same thing. you hide behind others, have others do the dirty work for. you pay for their lawyers. that's a good way to people from flipping. i used to see that all the. time it's become trendy to say donald trump reminds me of a moss. but i confirmed that in this book. >> they had a lot of lawyers
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who were, roy cohen, or flashy lawyers that seem to know how to scam the? system >> of people who are powerful and wealthy can hire more powerful lawyers. i don't think more expensive lawyers mean better lawyers. but sometimes that can intimidate -- a great example. the first, one or alexander acosta was ahead federal prosecutor gave epstein are ridiculously soft plea, years later came out that he was a drug that -- get some, research and i made the case the region acosta did that was not because he was paid off, but because he was intimidated, the legal team was al undershorts, can star, and all these former federal prosecutor and is a compelling case that acosta, straight-up limped out, because he didn't want to take on these powerhouse. lawyers >> there's the promise of equal justice under the law. the reality though is that, it's clear the more money have more influence you haven't power. we probably, the more untouchable you are. >> that's, right it's a function of a few things, one our system itself has
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vulnerabilities, too smart bosses knew how to explain. those but critical of prosecutors in this. buckley prosecutors lavar clichés. and one of our favorite is that we pursue everyone without fear or favor. i think that's not quite true. i say this firsthand. there are special provisions that apply to powerful people. for example the justice manual, the guy that applies to all federal prosecutors in the country. he says that if you have a powerful politician, or someone that's likely to get media coverage. the case needs to go up for higher, and higher levels of review. i gave some examples in this, but where if it wasn't ordinary person, across heroic i was kind of what signed off. but because they have -- higher and higher up the chain. get more, and more rigorous reviews. the fact of the matter as it favors more powerful. people >> it's fascinating book, untouchable how powerful get away with. it at leonid,
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it's clear the more money have more influence you haven't power. we probably, the more untouchable you are. >> that's, right it's a function of a few things, one our system itself has vulnerabilities, too smart bosses knew how to explain. those but critical of prosecutors in this. buckley prosecutors lavar clichés. and one of our favorite is that we pursue everyone without fear or favor. i think that's not quite
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true. i say this firsthand. there are special provisions that apply to powerful people. for example the justice manual, the guy that applies to all federal prosecutors in the country. he says that if you have a powerful politician, or someone that's likely to get media coverage. the case needs to go up for higher, and higher levels of review. i gave some examples in this, but where if it wasn't ordinary person, across heroic i was kind of what signed off. but because they have -- higher and higher up the chain. get more, and more rigorous reviews. the fact of the matter as it favors more powerful. people >> it's fascinating book, untouchable how powerful get away with. it at leonid, congratulations. >> thank you, anderson. >> the news continues -- after a quick break. a quick break. ♪ ♪ at adp, we use data-driven insights to design hr solutions to help you engage and retain top performers today, so you can have more success tomorrow. ♪ one thing leads to another, yeah, yeah ♪
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