formative him. >> hair sienna chiefland for a summit and intelligence analyst, john miller, wheels up political commentator, ashley allison, and conservative lawyer, george -- actually, but the juxtaposition to just see them speaking. here senator mitt romney, who's widely considered, or arguably, one of the most decent and dignified politicians in congress. i get stewart santos who is widely considered to be a prolific serial liar, and the fact that they even had that exchange, what were you thinking as you're watching this? >> we're going to know what they were saying. first when i heard the readout it shows you how agree just santos's behavior is. for, i'm not a huge fan a bit romney, but i do understand that he tries to hold a level of decorum definitely during the chamber for the state of the union. but george santos, i, mean he was elected. but we don't even know who he truly is. so it is telling that mitch

romney with a time to say, what are you doing dude? santos needs to go. >> what did you think? von >> santos, for him to play the victim here. but it is just so absurd. but it is mid romney's privileged background. all around that. it's about the fact that you are a pathological liar. but romney, yes, he did work in investment form. you're on a ponzi scheme. >> does he have millions or is he -- did he really equal all those 199 dollar or 99 cent dinners that the restaurant? that was on the expense account. the pay first campaign. really, just absurd. >> here's something interesting, john, i think it's in your wheelhouse. -- one of our great correspondents did an interview with a specialist and pathological

liars. and so, here is what that psychologist has to say. >> we see people telling egregious lies like that. and there appears to be a lifelong pattern association with. it hits the type of person who's engaged and pathological lie. v there's this moment at the state of the union address where senator romney approached him and he didn't seem apologetic at all. >> we see this pattern a lot with people psychopathic tendencies. people with anti social personality disorders. those cases, what we find is that those people are extremely comfortable manipulating, using, and exploiting people. the dissolute very little guilt, or shame. and ten not to have remorse. >> fascinating. with their background and criminology. >> well he rings the model. i've done a lot of training on both the investigators, and my analyst, and how to detect signs of deception and non

custodial in interrogation situation. there's a lot of tells. the problem here is you've got to reverse the model. which is really is finding a line for when is he telling the truth. because line is difficult. you have to keep track of it. you have to categorize them. you have to make sure that you maintain them these complex stories. whether you know, you're cheating a lover or doing a ponzi scheme. like madoff. but, when you just assume vibe tell it without something simple. a life stacks up. they don't make sense. here is some so kind of couple things which is, shame on us. the fact that he got elected. and then we found out all of this shows a failure the political process. a failure of the media, the press. and, in a situation where he was the governor of california. you can do that in congress. constitutionally banned. >> i think when the reason that we report so much on george santos is because there is something fascinating about

someone who looks you right in the eye and sets, a bold place lie, over, and over. we don't need these characters that often. usually there is some level of shame when someone gets busted dying. and they kind of have to look flummoxed. he isn't like that. it's in his character the you just don't stumble across, that often. as you say, you have to keep track of lies. no, he doesn't. he gets caught them all the time. then just pivots something else. >> to georgia's point, they played the victim. there's a clip a couple weeks ago reporters are following up on the capitol. and i think a camera woman bumped into georgia. he said >> these guys, that's assault. >> what? >> this is nonsense. >> it's a specific personality type. we are seeing more of it in politics today. i mean,, the psychologist doing interview there. they talk about psychotherapy. talk about antisocial personality disorder.

the dissent, the diagnostics artist nicola manual for mental disorders. talks about sociopathic. you have to show some it is a serial lie or. somebody uses a leases for example. they have no remorse, they have trouble obeying the law. where we've seen that before? we saw it for four years. and the problem is we haven't been able to call it out for what it is. and now, it is perpetuating. >> except that we are calling george santos out. all of his constituents are calling it out. >> it doesn't, but we're not calling it out for, he's a sociopath, he's a psychopath, trump was a psychopath in a sociopath to. he did exactly the same things. donald trump famously pretended to be a pr agent named john barron. also, he was named john miller. ebbed >> and he would call a purpose and tell them great stories about how he was a, you

know -- exactly. it just was completely insane. >> with donald trump assume the john miller personality? the report and say, helped bill pr firm. he said, well, donald trust me with more important stuff. >> oh my dad, even his alter ego has an ego. >> that's amazing. he went on for five minutes but what donald likes them. >> again, that's a narcissistic aspect of these narcissistic sociopath. they played the victim. and they try to tell everybody how great they are. even if it is not true. how they won in election. got millions of votes that they did not win. >> i think to your point if you look a little bit deeper about what this state says about the state of politics. let's look at last night. you had one side to house screaming liar. and the other house saying no, you are not being truthful

about what you would do with certain policies. i think, you, know george santos, is a system. or a symptom of a political system, right now. that is really unstable, and americans are frustrated with it. so, we are the moments where truth, and honesty, need to be the leading factor regardless of what party you're on. >> can we bring it back? >> i don't know how you get more republican here on this. i mean, this is actually not both sides in this way. i don't mean your both sides-ing it. but i mean, this is becoming a very specific republican problem because, donald trump, created a mission structure for anybody to say anything about anyone. donald trump used to accuse an msnbc anchor of murder. it is like completely baseless. he got away with that.

>> i mean there was no shamelessness obvious lead but he worked on before. but he said he's the one that created a permission structure where people said, hey, i can do that to. and it went unchecked by his party. and it is also deterring good people from running for office. i mean, we don't have many but romney slept. precisely because who wants to play in this dirty playground. >> i did like santos's interview. where he said, i'm really sorry about all the lies. and he said he's never going to lie again. and then he continues with, most of what i said before was true. >> which was a lie. right? he can't do it, he just can't. >> again, to your point about the shamelessness, which placements what we saw last night. at one time, it's 1000, ayn as we know when -- .

he was censured, and was a shocking moments. and then last nights, it was like marjorie taylor greene was like at a bachelorette party. she was yelling freely whenever she wanted. >> she was out of order, but she's been out of order from the beginning. but her behavior -- >> but i mean this was her state of the union. >> there she is. the one single thing that we carry forward, with more dignity than the brits. and then lost it. >> in a battle of breeding. after that we should do some bad operating. but it's not even necessarily as good as what they released. and when mitt romney actually said to george santos. here's a bad look breeding of the night. >> you ought to be embarrassed. >> sure, i have to be embarrassed. you ought to be embarrassed on. >> it was basically exactly what they said.

that bad the braiding. art imitating life. >> meanwhile, joe rogan is in hot water tonight for and tweeting antisemitic tropes. well defended congresswoman, ilhan omar. what are we to do with joe rogan? he's most popular podcast in the country. does it matter what he says? why isn't he doing more research before he talks? all that, next. into the no-too-distant future of lincoln. ♪ ♪ it's what sanctuary could look like... feel like... sound like... even smell like. more on that soon. ♪ ♪ the best part? the prequel is pretty sweet too. ♪ ♪

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benjamin -- today that jewish people are not into money is ridiculous. that's like saying that the talents about the pizza. >> rogan use a trip to defending ilhan omar's tweet from 2019. he applied republicans from israel issued by many. omar apologized for the tweet direction has not. spotify, his pot cast for that nothing. -- john miller and emma goldberg here. so, you know who's really into money? joe rogan. joe rogan gets really into money. i don't know what to do anymore about joe rogan because he's not allowed to representative, is not a journalist, he's not a pillar of society. he's a guy who's paid to -- a lot, a lot. billions and -- to entertain people with sort of scandalous, whatever popped into his mind. could be scandalous it could be whatever. that's what he's paid to do.

>> it's a big thoughts on that. you cannot make antisemitic comments, racist comments, sexist comments, and they depend by saying. but it is true. a, that is not a defense to me. let's start with that. however, joe broken has built his own empire. he's an entertainer. he is a product of our capital society. and have our first amendment. i don't begrudge him as much as i reserve the right to be offended as a jewish person. and it's any kind of person. but he can say what he wants to say and we often say that the best solution for bad speeches more speech or good speech. i expect to take one of the points of view. he prides himself on being open minded, i'll see that here. but all joe rogan to different standards than ilhan omar. joe rogan's podcasts member, ilana moore is a representative of congress. so i stayed much condemnation representative omar. >> it doesn't joe rocky all

says is landry's like i've been the research that you don't have to. so look at the research for a second. the history behind this whole trope is that in the middle ages jews had to be money handlers because they weren't allowed into any other profession. so, it is echoing these centuries old hatred. on top of that, this isn't rogan's first rodeo. he's been called out for racist remarks. for spreading covid misinformation. and this is a man with a heavy load responsible tender shoulder. because 11 middle people are listening to him. he is a primary source of news. so if anyone should be doing the research it should be him is that what he's saying is accurate and isn't filtered with hatred and bigotry. >> i did know that he claims to do research. that is claim was that he just bladders. he said i'm not a journalist, i can say whatever i want. the fact that he claims to do research does, i, think actually make this more offensive. he said he's doing a conversation with his pals hair. but the fact you get a

listening in. but he claims to do research? these pedals so much misinformation that it is amusingly mark. >> his episodes go so long so the time your product our to half and you kind of lost the plot please bring in these crack bought experts to. >> first of all. joe rogan is a great experiment in the first amendment. i mean, i democracy can go round protecting popular speech. the great democracies are the ones that protect on popular speech. so i paired the foreign orients of the company that refuses to take them off talk about why, when you say the things about what he was saying there are demonstrably untrue then. totally untrue now. they left them on because they felt it was important for this kind of free speech to go. on >> the light today so successful.

but i go back to elliott's point. which is, joe rogan is saying things to get a reaction, being outrageous for a purpose, probably. he's not elected member of congress. and for congresswoman omar to say something like she said and then tweet it. it brings up a number of questions which, is a, that's what she's saying in public. what is she saying in private about those things? if she knew new to delete the tweet right away. why did she say it in the first place? but moreover, when you get to that particular wing of the party. and the discussion. everything is an offense. everything isn't aggression. some things are microaggressions. something is highly sensitive. the kind of arrogance to think that none of that applies to you. -- >> sorry, you're talking about congresswoman omar. saying it's all about the benjamins. >> right, but you're saying

that they're too sensitive about things being said. and i mean the fact that her defender is probably the last person on earth. that she would want to be associated with just takes this in a circle. it shows how ridiculous the political conversations gotten. >> i'm gonna focus on omar here because she's one vote in congress but matters of state. i think it's offensive discuss emit on the head which he said it's a trope. starch about st. joseph money. that's ridiculous. he says a talents of pizza. this is silly stuff. but this notion that juice, a small cabal of jews control finance, media, entertainments, the banks, goes back as oldest jewish people themselves. it's been used not to propaganda as an excuse for why we need to round people up. i'm not saying where there, but i'm saying goes beyond just the surface of the words that are used. and this is why have such a problem, it particular, what

representative omar's. and also i should say this but representative omar. this is not a onetime slip the tongue. she has a history of doing this. going back a decade or. so several times over. and it sort of follows the same dance or she sort of apologizes, sort of walks of, back tries to cancer self as the victim, invariably. so, she's the one i'm looking at here. joe rogan, again, we don't like, and we cannot let, complicity, cumulus into him. it'll be nice if he was open to alternative viewpoints. remember his doctor kept on, it's subject on. joe that was interesting. >> i think he is open at the viewpoint. i just question his research. everything that you both have just said tonight. who is more of the main thing he has set on top of it. this is what -- i said about this. yesterday. he said that at a time of rising anti jewish violence, when growing numbers of americans believe in antisemitic conspiracy theories. joe rogan, what uses amends platform to spew antisemitic tropes about jews, and money.

for centuries. people of using long-standing chips to spread vicious lies by the jewish people. comedian are not, rugged comments are no joke. >> that is to your point. he does have a responsibility because he is so popular. with millions of listeners who just have -- you should have a higher morals wants built. >> why is this dangerous? we are talking about this just the other night. which is it's a kind of conversation, more widely popular podcaster. when elected member of congress, some of our other politicians have bled into this discussion going on in the darkest corners of the internet, about antisemitism, antitrust violence, not see theories, kind of mainstream thinking. and ways that we have been seen in this country in years. and it is increasingly attached to physical acts of violence, and attacks. and mass murders, active shooters. words matter.

>> i hope jerome is watching tonight. and i'm sure he is. thank you. yes >> okay, now our prediction today. about the marvelous future in the nfl. just weeks after he suffered cardiac arrest on the field. could we see him play again? doctor sanjay gupta, here next. couldn't use cpap. now i have this. inspire is a sleep apnea treatment that works inside my body with the click of this remote. no mask, nhose, just sleep. learn more and view important safety information at inspesleep.com.

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made about what caused his heart to stop. but the medical director of the nfl players association will be back on the field. >> i guarantee, veronica, that the more hamlet will play professional football again. hannah was almond today with a 2023 players association award for dedication to the community. his charity, toy drive raising more than $9 million. cnn chief medical correspondent, doctor sanjay ghouta is with me now. sanjay, hearing, that of course is wonderful. good news. it's a miracle to her doctor meyer say that he will play football again. after what he went through. but medically speaking, is it wise for him to play football again? >> while, when you hear something like this with the doctor. he was not equivocal about this at all. he said definitely playful but again. i think it means a lot of things. and i think he would say that lightly. and even though there is official diagnosis yet.

what he's saying is that the more hamlin has made a full recovery. and more importantly, he's gone through a series of tests. you can see the type of testing that would've been performed on his heart to forgot to things. a, what exactly happened to him? again, there's no official diagnosis yet by think that they probably are zeroing in on it. but also, what kind of shape is as hard now? those are the type of test. they see there on the screen. electrocardiogram. aiko cardiogram. a heart and mayer, or cities can, stress test. basically, after doing all these tested in funded there was a persistent problem. one of the things i wasn't there probably try to figure out is was there some sort of underlying issue that may have caused this. he did dig in this a lot of and the american press commotio cordis is, they do have to statement about place with commercial cards. the read is to specifically. it's as if no underlying

cardiac abnormality is identified then individuals can safely resume training and competition after resuscitation from partial cortez. so this is rare. so there's not a lot of data, i listen, in the past when you now talked about medical issues. announcer talk about data based on thousands, tens of thousands of people. two dozen or so people may have this every year. based on what they know, they sounded typically is good to go. >> if there is some information mcmullin cortes that i want to bring up. because those interested to see who it happens to. 95% of cases as you all know, sanjay, or adolescent boys. men's the mean age is 14 years old. the most risk factors and back from a hard spherical object. so why does mostly happened adolescent boys? >> they're not sure. i mean there's also speculation about this. and again i'll keep reiterating

that this is rare. the reason i keep saying that is because it's very hard to draw from these broad conclusions with something happening so infrequently. but i think, typically, it has to do with this blow to the chest and someone who is younger. obviously damar when someone is younger they have thinner chest wall. and that inner cheswold may actually be something that makes the more vulnerable. to having a blow to the chest that actually sons the heart, essentially. what is the heart is the kherson to be less respects beat. distant but slow to the chest. and that the chest may cause, that are very significant blow. even hear about this in football. are they ever hear about it in sports that have an obvious has been hurdle to the air and how to speed. baseball, across, hockey, things like that. so that's probably why you're seeing it with that particular age group. >> when this first happened to him. and if one is so shocked and concerned when he collapsed on

the field. i believe you are on the air. and you said i don't know. but it looks like commotio cordis to you. from what you just watch. so why have haven't they've been able to come up with a cause after all this time? >> one of the things that this diagnosis allison is on they called the diagnosis exclusion. there's not a specific batista scan that says, a, this is definitely commotio cordis. but a diagnosis made is that you rule out all the other things. and he had some kind of cardiomyopathy? some kind of underlying problem the heart? they have electrical problem of the heart? or some electrical problems that can predispose people to cardiac arrest. again, it sounds like, especially given to optimize comments which were just hearing today. that they ruled all that out. so, my guess is, they probably do have their diagnosis. they just haven't officially said yet. but i think that's the process to this diagnosis solution process. >> really helpful. doctor sanjay gupta, great to see. thanks so much. >> you got it, anytime, thank

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for the first time we heard one of the five memphis police officers charged with murder in the beating of, tyre nichols. former officer, justin smith, explaining in a newly obtained sworn affidavit that he called for medical help. before arriving on the scene that night. cnn has not been able to independently verify that he made that call. smith, who has an emt certification also suggested he

attempted to help nichols by propping him up against the police car so he could breathe better. back with me we have -- let me start with the. i am wearing from him. but he called for help. we don't know if that's true. he's an emt certification, propping up tyrannical symbols you could do? about cpr? about anything else? . >> propping amal was the right thing to do. because you want, even someone in handcuffs sitting upright so they don't aspirate and all that. but then where was the rest? which is, is a certified emt he should have been checking for vital signs, and other things while they're waiting for the fire department emts to get there. but we know from the story that the fire department, the mps got there, and they didn't check anything for a long time. so, from every standpoint, this was a massive show of failure to render aid. which is a sworn obligation.

>> but if you did make that phone call. that would help him a trial? >> to an extent. first of, all if he claims was when affidavit that he made that call. he better have made that call. right? and presumably knows enough to know that any call he would make from the scene in, this official duties, would be reported somehow or other. we don't know how he made the call. but those police radio, sometimes copies their own phones, text, who knows. there better be a record of that. if he did that, that would help him on some of the lower charges on the indictment. the official mission, official misconduct, and it's render aid, but does not do anything for them on the top. charged on the murder in the second recharge. on the aggravated assault charge. that thing that is what a highlight olympia really import decision in this case is. how are these five depend is going to be split up for trial. i guarantee that the prosecution of them together. prosecutors say to the jury that all five of these men worked together. they're all complicit, but all a part of it. but each where there is little

water on separate trial. they're all judging it's a crucial decision. there's also this other development is that one of the officers not charge name demetrius haley. took a picture of tyre nichols after he was beaten. and apparently texted it around. i don't even know, i don't know to make of that. that shows a different level of voyeurism, or cruelty. >> he had sacked makeup photo and text or friend, but not call for help before you stop beating a man. it is disgusting to me. and i think it speaks to the culture of that department. the culture of that squad. and i know after many police incidents, particularly this one, there are calls for additional training. but i would beg to say that the training is not going to tell you to beat someone to a bloody pulp. and then take a photo. training doesn't stop an instant like this from happening. this is why you need to get to the culture of the police

department and really talk about how violence, and going out with this warrior mentality that so many officers do, sometimes show up in. it can be problematic and lead to these deadly situations like the nichols case. >> then we want our police off of a roar mentality? they are going out to fight, obviously dangerous criminals. you know a lot about culture. what can they do in this police department if it's clearly rotten? >> first of all, i would hesitate to paint with a white brush and say every cop in memphis is bad. where every cop anywhere is bad. we have five bad cops here. that could only exist in a culture that allowed that kind of moral corruption to exist. so, there is a problem there. i'm sure they're many good police officers and memphis. these specialized units in a city that is beset with crime, like memphis, has put many cities are. can be highly effective, and properly run. promptly run means careful selection process.

that it clearly did not happen here. close supervision. one sergeant for every four or five operates out. they're clearly not the case. one lieutenant shows up six minutes after this is all over. it has very little effect. those are the basics of running a plainclothed unit that's going to be engaging people impossible violent crimes. and the scenario. and the chief admitted herself. she said i don't have enough supervisors to put out there. >> is, she had, all responsible for this culture? i know that she's a new, relatively new police chief. but how much responsibility does she have? >> she is caught in the terrible perfect storm. she's a very well regarded chief. she has very good reviews from where she came from. but when she gets, there she has a police department that is hemorrhaging people. losing staff. and a city that is overrun with crime. what's the most dangerous metropolitan areas in the

country. and they may or, oppress, and the city council, we're demanding to act on those violent crimes. so, anyway it was going to come out. it was going to be a challenge. >> she has to have some accountability because those officers were part of her department. i think you hit are really important points. the decision of how to bring crime down in the community, all of, it was put on the backs to police officers. we know that crime, and crime intervention can happen in many different ways. so, rather than the mayor, rather than the city council thinking about alternative methods. then just having an aggressive scorpion union. with the war mentality. studies have shown that when our social but that warrior mentality increase incidences of violence and civilians is likely. so, i think it should be a

broader holistic approach. that's what people are talking about when they talk about police reform. it's not just give more funding to the police department. it is actually providing funding to social services, and communities, to do earlier interventions on violence. and the police officers can't be the backstop to prevent crime a community. >> when that thing about the pursuit syndrome. when you pull people over for whatever -- that's a taillight that's not just a pretense. if they run, why are you chasing? there are so many police officers chasing them? they're not armed. one >> of the key problems of this story is that nobody can really tell you the predicate for pulling him over. with the charge was going to be. i >> it is all about culture. a lot of police officers have brought about these policies. this way, it wasn't working.

culture heats policy from lunch. it's all about the culture with the department. >> thank you all for this conversation. meanwhile. but would be like to sit in pitch black darkness for four days and four nights. well, when nfl player is about to do exactly that, we'll tell you, and why. next. that's when you know, it's half-washed. downy has 7 benefits that condndition and smooth fibers so clothes look newer, longer. feel the difference withth downy.

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and what i was going to do it. >> it is four nights of complete darkness. and if you can't even just walk out the door. but the darkness retreat. >> i wonder what that would be like. sitting in the darkness. a darkest retreat like that. just getting. i said just getting. let's bring in executive editor of men's health. i was interviewed aaron rodgers about his unique health journey. you cannot stop with us, john miller, ashley allison, and elie honig. ben, do you have any idea why aaron rodgers wants to do this? >> i think he's the kind of person wants to understand himself really well. but in the past, he's kind of made that journey to his self taking psychedelic from that kind of thing. think this is a way to do that

kind of in their quest without drugs. and starts with assessment of time to get to your kind of core beliefs. so i think is a very curious deliberate person. this is a big decision. so he's kind of taking it seriously for sure. >> it is fascinating. that sounds a lot better than some other things he's tried. first of all, i mean, the eye wants could trips sound like the best option for my money. that was in 2020, and 2022. he took iosco trips. then in 2022 he did a 12-day clarified butter and laxative cleanse. that one sounds like the least appealing. and now he wants to do this for our day doctors to treat the let me just read to you what the darkness or treat owner describes it as. the dark retreat is nothing else then a room that is her medically locked, therefore, there is no light source able

to come inside. therefore the eyes, open or close, when the verge asked. and that is something we are never experienced. except when we're in the boom of our mothers. so it is just returning, or coming home to that place of nourishment, that plays a deep healing and deep love. so do you think that he is going there to decide his future? >> i don't think he's going to come out with the decision. but in our interview he talked a lot about surrendering. he felt he had to surrender, in some ways. one of those ios could journeys to kind of get to some inner core understanding himself. so i think he's helping that he will, this experience, will somehow help them make a better decision. and it's interesting. i heard him talk about this kind of thing to. it's almost like a cocoon to kind of think of darkness is kind of negative. but in some ways, obviously, he's hoping is going to illuminate something for sure.

>> poetic. any how many of you wanted to afford a doctor's retreat? >> i'm intensely jealous. it sounds great. >> i probably bill after four hours. but the idea of the peacefulness that what's happened. i've some questions, how do you eat, how does about them work? nemours -- but you had a huge winter in the dark. >> your body kind of adjust. i would a say, calming the hippie on the panel. but a lot of these practices are indigenous practices that our ancestors used. minds going sweat lodges that are completely black and they are called testimonials and you go one, and it forces you to really let go vote -- >> for hours and darkness and sweating? and sweating. and it was a lot.

>> but it was a beautiful experience. and people sit in these experiences for very long time. and our ancestors didn't get clarity of minds, and so does darkness or treat people go inside a quieter chase or they don't talk for 12 days. it is not because they aren't around people. it is about discipline and really clearing your mind. so i'm not on aaron rodgers bandwagon. but i do understand some of the benefits of these. >> i like that perspective a lot. again, i just checked the oscar situation. john, how does this feel to you? >> it has a certain appeal. i mean, when you lived, the way we lived. the minutes of minutes, on the phone, text message, the news, cannes a problem for here, is norwegian over there. in the middle the night. you're trying to think thoughts. the idea of completely clearing your mind. completely clearing your thoughts. having visions and epiphanies? and sensory deprivation which becomes a sensory awakening? actually, it has some appeal.

my question is, i mean he's got a decision to make that if he comes out of four days of darkness. throws open the door, sees a shadow. and then goes back inside. do we have six more weeks of winter? which is going to affect more people than the packers? those are all excellent questions. you open my mind to it. by don't know if i need four days of it. i think i might need four hours. i'm out of the silencer treat. this kind of makes me looks and respect aaron rodgers. i know he's become a little bit of a heel in the nfl. for lack of a better term, it's cold in there. that is going to try these unusual things. especially the nfl, which sensory very conformists, at the town himself, and push himself. so god bless. betancourt, thank you very much for all the information for sharing your reporting with us. thank you very much, great to be with you tonight. we do have some. news that just insider john fetterman. who's admitted to a d.c. hospital today after feeling light headed. this is according to a

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