route that he wasn't where he usually was at. when you see him on film he tugged him and forced him out of the direction of where he wanted to throw the ball. at the end of the day you got to play football and the refs make their calls the best they can and it went our way on that call. a couple of other ways might have come. you come to the parade too. i know paul is trying to get out there. >> it's okay. i'll let paul represent me. it's okay. i appreciate it. enjoy disneyland. >> a reference to kansas city superfan and actor paul ruud. congratulations to patrick mahomes and the chiefs, the news concerns, "erin burnett outfront" starts now. outfront next. inside the white house on how the president is responding behind closed doors to the unidentified objects flying over the u.s. will he share the details with the american public? plus, governor ron desantis inching closer to a 2024

announcement. one major donor telling cnn tonight i like trump but desantis will be the nominee. the choice between the two, awkward. new detail on desantis' planning. she worked for russia state television and protested putin's war on live tv and tonight she's outfront. you'll see that interview this hour. let's go "outfront." good evening, i'm erin burnett. welcome to a special edition of "outfront." critical electronics from china's spy balloon in the hands of the fbi learning that now and we understand that this has been recovered along with a, quote, significant portion of the balloon off the coast of south carolina. now, this is according to the latest that we have from a u.s. defense official. and it comes as we're learning new details about the rush inside the west wing to better understand and, therefore, better respond to the growing number of unidentified objects that have now been shot down over north america. sort of a strange sentence that maybe a week ago you wouldn't

imagine me saying by u.s. fighter jets. this is where we are. now there's four in eight days, and one former u.s. senior official tells phil mattingly we can't shoot down everything. more in a moment. it comes in the context of john kirby saying that the u.s. knows very little about the other three objects including whether they were equipped with sensitive security equipment or not. this all leads to a lot of questions tonight. we're going to tackle them in just a moment but first i want to begin with phil mattingly outfront live. you've been talking to all your sources. what are you learning? >> reporter: when u.s. officials generally acknowledge there are so many unanswered questions about the three objects that were shot down over three days, however, if you want to window into the moment inside 9 west wing, you should watch how quickly the gears of government are being kicked into gear to try and address the longer-term issues here. it underscores just how unprepared u.s. officials were for this moment. you mentioned it. that sentence that you read is something that not just most

americans couldn't imagine a week ago, white house officials though they have been keenly aware of the idea of unid unidentified objects there have been briefings on tem in the classified session for the president specifically even a report that they would be having to grapple with it in this moment and i think that's why you saw today john kirby also announced there would be the implementation of a task force of sort, interagency team led by jake sullivan that would draw on the entirety of the government to try to figure out not just why this is happening now but what the blooder policy response should be. that former senior u.s. official says we can't shoot down everything all the time went on to say we knead a policy response here and we clearly don't have one yet because we simply haven't seen this before. now, what that policy response will be, officials say they want to move quickly on that as they've noted publicly, they've widened the aperture in terms of the radar and may be picking up these objects, three objects because of that which means more may be coming in the future and need a broader policy response

in terms of when to engage with u.s. fighters as they have over the course of the last several days. what new thresholds would be, as they wait, erin, for the information to come from the collection efforts for those three objects this blooder policy across the government, faa, department of homeland security, intelligence agencies underscores just how serious this moment is inside the administration and just how little they knew before this point. i think that more than anything else is a great window into this moment in time. you don't really ever see the government move this quickly on this broad an issue to try and get their hands around something and i think when you talk to white house officials they acknowledge with all these unanswered questions in the near terms the longer term is just as important and that's why you've seen the biden administration at the direction of the president really laser focused on that right now. >> phil mattingly thank you so much with new reporting from the white house and everyone is here with me. major lyons, the former senior u.s. official telling phil we

can't shoot down everything all the time. and i guess i'm sort of stating the obvious but sometimes it needs to be stated. two weeks ago there were things throating over the u.s. and we weren't shooting them down. either we didn't see them or didn't shoot them. what are you going to do? shoot everything? it feels unprepared. >> yeah, quiet on the northern front today. nothing shot down thaad. that's what they're doing increasing the aperture and concern is false positives, we would be scrambling f-22s and f-16s all the time for potentially bird formations. these are radar equipment with imperfections. it tells us we have to reinvest in the infrastructure and get better, both near term and long term with regard to this kind of situation. >> and, look, congressman, here's the issue, there is a reality here which is that it wouldn't have happened if the balloon, the chinese balloon would not have become public and everyone knew about it and forced us increasingly that this

position a senior official saying this is not something people need to panic about or would require the president to go out right now. the president is taking it seriously and receiving briefings from advisers. is that enough? >> if this were an episode of "the x-files," it would be intriguing. instead people are rightfully concerned to say the least. i think there does need to be a policy response who it comes to how to deal with these unidentified objects, flying across the continental united states, the american people deserve predictability and i think our adversaries or potential adversaries need to know how we would deal with it going forward. >> it is amazing we don't have that, john, at this point. it's not as if this were the first spy balloon to state the obviously. i'm not saying because it's obvious but they looked at

radar. >> right, no, but, look, clearly the threshold has changed. i think the key questions are, first of all, these last three incident, what are they getting the information out to the american people as soon as possible, it's not sustainable to simply called them unidentified flying objects. the second issue specifically with the first chinese balloon as massive as it was, what were they getting? what were they getting informationwise that is not available from satellite imagery? what did you technologies might have been tested. china is getting bolder and bolder about violating u.s. sovereignty on multiple front, this is just the latest example. >> alyssa, here's the thing, as far as we know started back in the trump administration, some of these things they have now identified were balloons flying then, secretary of defense then said they weren't aware. >> when i was at the pentagon, we were not aware of it.

secretary esper was not in on it. exploiting something we were not monitoring with regard to the first what we now know is a pcr, you know, attached -- >> the large one. >> what's interesting, there's a lot to explore here but the other three, even if let's say it's a weather balloon it's flying in commercial airspace or at least the height that an aircraft would and how do we not have the capability to monitor that better? i think the president needs to get more information but at some point needs to brief the public. the fear of the unknown is tremendous and john and i have talked about this, when the first balloon went over the u.s., it tore the country apart for about 24 hours, the right, shoot it down, the left don't touch it. if anything is exposed for our adversaries, the more facts we have the better. >> so let me just ask you here, major, the house intelligence committee held hearings on ufos a couple years ago, the senate had an intelligence report from 2020, 2 1/2 years ago, in june,

here we are, february, they said, this was in their report, the committee remains concerned there is no unified comprehensive process within the federal government for collecting and analyzing intelligence on unidentified aerial phenomena which i guess they thought was somehow better than ufos despite the fact and finds that the information-sharing and coordination across the community has been inconsistent and has lacked attention from senior leaders. well, clearly all these hearings, nobody seems to have done anything. >> yeah, doesn't look like the rose got pinned on anybody to do it. it's the military's mission. navy or somebody depending where the situation arises but there's got to be better information within interservices because nothing is unidentified. it might be unidentified on a radar which is a piece of equipment but until a pilot puts eyes on it or a drone puts a camera on it and see what is up there it really doesn't matter. >> by the way, mitt romney said there is no way -- sorry, marco rubio said no way an f-22 is not

going to film it. they'll take a picture. this is what i'm about to shoot down. do you think that we'll get images here of this stuff up close? >> eventually. but i don't think the professionals flying those planes will -- >> i was about to say, i kind of actually would be surprised if those guys would take out their iphone and do it but i would expect there to be footage of some sort. >> the footage we've seen, how much of this were foreign adversaries flying satellite planes? mitt romney and one thing he said is that he actually supported biden's decision, right, the people who were saying biden should have shot over montana, that was app apparently according to cnn reporting biden's initial instinct then the military said, no, wait for it to pass over so there's minimal damage to anyone on the ground and also biden was focused on let's retrieve the data and get the information. >> gave them time to observe it. >> which was a response i appreciated from mitt romney because the fact to alyssa's point it shouldn't be so easy to

divide the country. there should not have been political responses but should have been a response in support of a white house that was anging at the urging and recommendation of the u.s. intelligence community and the military. that is what this should always have been by way of response. >> can i say one thing? i spoke to chuck schumer earlier. he mentioned he would be in favor of a bipartisan investigation into just to look into the origins and i think that's an incredibly important starting point because, to some it may be weather phenomenon than and some may be technology we are not aware of. >> this is the real question, you sit here regular person, you know, which you aren't but we all are and you say, wait a minute, we have the greatest mccormick intelligence apparatus in the world so we think and so china says we have. and yet we didn't seem to know about this and it raised questions about how great that apparatus is. i think that's why people feel a

bit unsettled. >> that is a given. we obviously spotted it over montana and let it come across the country. >> i'm saying we didn't know -- they didn't know about the prior things that had been reported as uf osse that only in retrospect so -- >> probably that got call up in the military bureaucracy. this is a staff officer sitting on the coastline looking at a radar someplace and seeing an anomaly and reporting it up to somebody and by the time it gets to norad someone might have said that's really nothing. >> as someone who has had to vote on gargantuan military budgets on consecutive occasions it is appalling to me that we would not have learned until relatively recently, i think last year in the spring, that this happened at least three times under donald trump's administration. what are we doing with all of the money that congress is appropriating -- >> this is the question, right? yes, that is a fair question. >> it is and i think rather than looking at the democratic or republican administration, the

question is why was that information not being made for available floated up the chain of command, so to speak so the people had awareness perhaps the military was aware of spy balloons or, you know, flying over the united states and was treating it in a, let's wait and see and follow it point of view. >> real quick, when i was at the pentagon, we at one point were briefed on russian submarines that came into u.s. territorial waters. that's something we reacted responded to. this is something that never even made it to a place where it was briefed to a level that we were prepared to react, prepared to give the white house responses to. that is sort of scary something as significant as a massive surveillance balloon never made it to the president's desk. >> certainly is. whether it didn't get there or wasn't seen. these are the big questions we still don't know. >> that's on the military, i think. the military has to do a better job. >> all thanks, stay with me. next we have new reporting into "outfront." governor ron desantis. you'll see fresh reporting on where he is on a 2024 run and

one major donor predicting he will be the nominee. plus the russian journalist who stood up to putin and protested his war on live television joins me tonight. she's going to tell you how her and her young daughter escaped moscow. an incredible story and whether she regrets anything about her public stance against putin. and the hits keep coming for congressman george santos. big questions raised that found more than $365,000 in unexplained and undocumented expenses. at least one of his donors is now talking to the justice department. and effortlessssly responds to both of you. our smart sleepepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. proven quality sleep. only from sleep number.

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little guys because every dollar counts. ask your agent or get a quote at easyaspie.com new, tonight, ron desantis getting ready to take on donald trump. behind the scenes he is preparing a political operation for 2024 campaign and the top advisers to desantis are also in the early stages of launching what could be a super pac to help him do that. top donors telling cnn it can't happen soon enough. it's awkward for many of us who like president trump but believe governor desantis should be our nominee. trump can't beat biden. we've seen that already and comes as "the new york times" reports desantis is debating how and when to respond more directly to growing attacks and criticism from trump, some of which has been deeply personal and nasty. everyone is back with me and,

okay, so here we are. to set the stage, no president in american history has come from florida and now you might have two 2024 candidate, in fact, by polls, the only two that register right now. others are hypothetical but a third for trump, a third for desantis and then that's it. and here we are. it's a pretty incredible moment. >> it is and i think florida has seen a political transition of its own to see the governor and donald trump kind of rise above the class that we once thought would come out of florida but this is ron desantis making a fame out of himself on a lot of different levels. i want to shout out an article from nato cohen. he talked about how ron desantis is way further than someone like governor scott walker polling at something like 7%. when you look at the polling, he is up closer to the rudy giulianis rising, we know he did

not win. that is still a level of name recognition that puts him in a different type of category than the other. >> totally fair. now -- >> hear me out. >> let me finish my sentence. okay, desantis has so far not responded to trump's criticism, some of which recently has been very personal. you know, putting pictures him up with high school students when he was in his 20s but every time he does it, he does it without using his name. here's how he's done it. >> what do you think of trump's big announcement? [ laughter ] >> well, you know, one of the things i've learned in this job is when you're -- when you're leading and getting things done, yeah, you take incoming fire. i would just tell people to go check out the school board from last tuesday night. >> -- criticized you on a number

of -- >> well, look, what i would just say is this, i roll out of bed. i have people attacking me from all angles. what i would just say is that verdict has been rendered by the people of the state of florida. >> he can't put off taking on trump directly. i think this is a savvy approach now for desantis before he gets into focus on i'm not busy attacking former republicans like the former president is. that's the starkest contrast he can make running on a similar lane. his only argument different from trump i don't come with the baggage running on the anti-wokism. culture wars, very similar tone and tenor to donald trump. not trying to wrap his arm around independents and moderates and the attacks will only get ugly. workshop names trump is looking at and trump will come back in a bigger, more vocal way. still not on mainstream social media. he's going to be front and center again. desantis won't be able to ignore him and i think it will be a

fight to watch. >> can i add another contrast. kind of governance approach. the more calm version of trumpism. when you talk to republican voters they mention that. the rolling set of scandals was -- something they were willing to take with donald trump but not something they preferred was coming out of the white house. ron desantis is laying a subtle contrast that you can get the trump policy without the trump ruckus. >> so you mentioned the names. now, i know meatball ron. they're testing them. this is the thing. >> sandbox politics. >> shut down ron. that's not the perception. quite the opposite. of course, perhaps the best one is ron desanctimonious. >> that was his initial instinct. but, you know, when you look at the polls, okay, look at the polls, you've got desantis, 33%, 33% if you look at desantis/trump in a primary but

double-digit lead when it's a one-on-one race. hold on. we can show that lead. there you go. >> yeah. that's extraordinary. of course, that's what desantis wants. he has the best of both worlds. basically undeclared candidacy and wants it to be seen as a two-person race. soon enough we'll have other candidates get in but for the time being desantis can clear the field. focus on being governor and, look, you have a candidate that doesn't have the baggage with state governing experience who won a 20-point re-election stat. he keeps coming back to it. that's his best argument. >> he has name recognition and does but as the field gets bigger and people get to know him better that will be the question and, congressman, you have tim scott, now likely to get in. we understand, you know, going to hold a black history month event and nikki haley. can anybody break through? >> look, i think in a crowded

field, donald trump reveals easily and polling bears that out. it happened. in the last contested primary in 2016, we saw that in realtime and i just don't know what people are doing other than potentially vying for a vp slot but i will also say, you know, as someone who ran for office, polling is a snapshot in time. what looks to be -- >> if even that anymore. there's a lot of questions raised -- i'm not trying -- >> the veracity of polling. >> fair enough. i mean, you know, ron desantis is doing so well that i'd like to think it's not a glitch for now in terms of the way republican voters are thinking, side note as a democrat i like forward to seeing this food fight between donald trump and ron desantis who i think is easily as extreme as donald trump is but, yes, somehow more palatable to republican voters. >> nikki haley seems set to announce this week, the man she appointed the senate tim scott may follow soon after. they're the first folks who are

announcing in the poll versus donald trump. the question will be how do they approach it? do they basically run as the trial balloon to be someone's vp, the surest way to lose or do they really plant a flag and say i'll run as a candidate of generational change optimistic about the american dream and take it to donald trump where it counts. you can't back down or shimmy or hope he'll offer you ben diction as vp next go-around. >> keep in mind we are in a prepare here primary moment. that works very well to national media attention which leads to name recognition and donors but as more folks get in and starts to force people to challenge what is your vision and what are your policies? don't go broke and woke. with the exception of donald trump who blew every political rule out of the water. >> this is the real question for

nikki haley and tim scott. both of whom have struggled with this. in their own ways. how do you do that in the gop? right? you're going to stalk about being -- this is an anti-woke party at its base. that is desantis and trump. nikki haley and tim scott are, you know, they don't look that way. can they play differently? >> a lot of republicans have told themselves donald trump was dictating those views to the base but that is going to be borne out in this republican primary independent of donald trump they will have to answer those questions about wokeness, about the culture wars as we sometimes call them and ron desantis and republican voters will push them to the right. it's going to be up to them to really try to find that and this is where ron desantis has another benefit for waiting because he can kind of see how those litmus tests develop among the other candidate. >> yes, but i think they could be in uniquely strong positions to condemn the wokeness while representing a more diverse america and --

>> big tent gop. >> it can be powerful and appealing. >> thank you all very much. breaking news, just getting reports of a shooting at michigan state university. everyone on campus being told to shelter in place. we have the details next. plus, my new interview with the russian journalist who risked her life to speak out against the war on ukraine . get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a new tool in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track yo. and see how changes you make today...

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now, we're right now gathering more information and bring it to you as soon as we get it so we're monitoring this for you and we'll be coming back to it in just a moment as we get more. i want to update you on the new major russian offensive inside ukraine. that is the warning we're getting from the secretary-general of nato. russia accepted that the thousands of new soldiers will suffer an incredibly high casualty rate. the ukrainian military tonight says such large numbers of russian soldiers have been wounded and had to seize a maternity and children's hospital to treat the troops they are treating and david mckenzie is there to detail it. david. >> reporter: russian units pushing forward again and again. only to be obliterated by ukrainian artillery, mines and drones. cnn analysis of multiple videos taken over the past fortnight show the russians with 30 tanks

and armored carriers in this area alone and seems several hundred soldiers. these seen without leadership or tactics as russian soldiers scramble to take cover, they are me mercilily cut down, russian tanks and fighting vehicles careen straight into well-placed minefields and at one point the lifeless body of a russian soldier get entangled in tank tracks. they provided to cnn show the intense bombardment of the tree lines where russian armor tried and failed to take cover. and the landscape littered with destroyed machines. president putin's only comment on the fighting here -- the marine infantry are maintaining the operation just fine, he says. this very moment, they are fighting heroically. the uk says that russians are losing soldiers at their highest rate since the start of the war. even russian military bloggers are venting their anger at the tactics and commanders, only

morons attack head on the same heavily fortified place writes one. another demanding the general in charge be put on trial. if the see the tactics does it look like they know what they're doing in that particular part of the front? >> it really doesn't. it's absolutely absurd that they've committed and they've tried to vent in a mechanized column. that makes it very vulnerable. >> reporter: still it's part of an offensive that nato secretary-general thinks is getting under way in earnest. >> because we see what russia and president putin do now is send in thousands and thousands of more troops, accepting a very high rate of casualty, taking a big loss but putting pressure on the ukrainians. >> reporter: ukraine's defenses are standing firm there. even as russia resorts to using what appear to be thermobaric

weapons but there are concerns units are running short of munition. >> the current rate of their expenditure is many times higher than our current rate of production. this puts our defense industries under strain. >> reporter: now another problem for the ukrainians, elon musk's spacex restricting use of starlink satellite in their key drone program. musk saying on twitter, we will not enable escalation of conflict that may lead to world war iii. the ukrainians' use of drones has given them an important edge in this conflict, an edge that's badly needed as russians make up for what they lack in quality through raw overwhelming force. to the north, it does seem like russian elite troops and wagner mercenaries are having more

success pushing back ukrainian forces. this is something that the ukrainians are denying flatly, but it's not the kind of gains that at this point in the conflict that putin would have wanted. erin. >> thank you so much, david. reporting live from kyiv tonight. and also tonight, it's been 11 months since russian journalist marina ovsyannikova interrupted a live news broadcast by holding up a no war sign. you remember this moment. it was an act of courage that up ended her life. she was interrogated. fined 120,000 rubles, placed under house arrest and threatened with up to ten years in jail then in october russian authorities lost track of her. she made a harrowing late night escape to france with her 11-year-old daughter. "outfront" now and marina ovsyannikova, i appreciate your time. i know you were in dire straits because of your courage. you were at great risk and told if you didn't leave moscow immediately you would be, quote,

broken in prison. you managed to estcape with you 11-year-old. how did you make it to safety? [ speaking non-english ] >> translator: it was a truly dramatic escape because exactly like you said my lawyer kept on saying, marina, run. flee, you have to escape. otherwise, you'll be locked up and broken in the jail. however, i could not leave because my daughter was taken from me and i could not leave without her. otherwise, i would have and would i have left without her i would have never gotten her back. back then she was with her father and left her father and i was at that time under the house arrest and we had be preparing for this escape for three weeks. i was doing this with the help of the journalist from the reporters without borders, and it was quite a drama because we were crossing the territory of the russian federation by seven

different cars and eventually the last car which we were using broke down somewhere in the field in the mud and we had to cross the field by foot and in complete sheer darkness, like, there were just stars around us and there was no gps coverage basically the person who was accompanying us literally was trying to make the way following the stars and he would say, hey, marina, look, here is the tail of the big dipper and i would just be nervously laughing thinking what kind of tail of what is the big dip irand where are we? finally we managed to get the gps signal and then made a call to the people on the other side of the border and helped and they helped us to get through, otherwise, it was just unbearable. >> marina, i know it has been several months, but you now live with this fear. do you still fear for you and

your daughter's safety? [ speaking non-english ] >> translator: frankly, i do feel danger, however, i should say that i'm not going to stay silent and france is a rather safe place for me, at least this is how i feel and i would like also to say that i love life and i'm not going to keep silent. >> and it has been, marina, nearly a year since putin invaded ukraine. i know you know many friends and others who are still behind in russia. do you see any changes in support from the russian people for the war? [ speaking non-english ] >> translator: people are just afraid because putin, he's like -- he's spreading out his tentacles and there are enforcement forces everywhere and people are afraid to do anything because if they come out with a sign, no to war, then

first they'll get fined. if it's the second time they're caught they'll be criminal convictions against them. and basically they experiencing the same things what used to be doing in stalin times, political repressions and threats and all kinds of punishments to keep people's mouths shut. [ speaking non-english ] >> marina, we told viewers about the story of the russian jo journalist maria and they're look for a nine-year prison sentence because she accurately reported on that horrific russian strike on the mariupol theater where women and children were sheltering. other russian journalists have been detained as well in recent days. what is your understanding of what's happening now and why putin seems to be cracking down so hard at this time on

journalists? [ speaking non-english ] >> translator: again, it's also important to understand that over the last 20 years, all of the independent media outlets in russia were destroyed, closed and they were either closed or they were pushed out of the country beyond the border of the russian federation. first maria was imprisoned. after that she was put under house arrest but because of some personal circumstances she couldn't be under the house arrest and was sent back to prison which is just horrific because she has two underage children, and the recent statistics of which i've just checked prior to this interview shows that they're already 14 journalists in prison in russia for their untoward statements and they're not just such famous journalists like maria or myself. they're regional journalists and what's happening, what we are

witnessing now is that putin is just tramping on freedom. he just wants to push it down and destroy it completely and he's threatening with them really long prison terms and, for example, even if we look at one not in the russian federation but just recently he was issued a prison term of eight to nine years, something like this. the entire situation is absolutely horrific. very anti-human and only complete kapit race of this regime can save russia. >> marina, thank you so much for speaking to me again. >> thank you for having me. and the breaking news, we are following, right now we're getting more information about the shots fired at michigan state university where police

are responding to a second shooting with multiple reported injuries at the gymnasium. we understand right now there could be multiple reported injuries. a suspect believed to be on foot and avesking everyone to get information about what's going on there. adr adrienne broaddus joins me on the phone. >> reporter: good evening, erin. >> we have a student also, one moment, a student from michigan state joining me on the phone. i guess could you just tell me the latest on what you're learning? >> we are not learning very much so far. i'm in campbell hall on the north side of campus so there were shots fired in the union earlier so still locked down in campbell but we've just been hearing things about shots in -- i on the east side of campus in the brody neighborhood and the east side of the north bay.

>> i'm sorry. i should let everyone know your name is nithia charles sheltering in place. the story seems to be developing. are others with you, and what is your -- you understand from your friends everyone is sheltering? >> yes, we're in like a lounge area in our hall. there's probably about 30 people over here. everyone is obviously kind of stressed, but seems to be calm right now. >> absolutely. well, i'm glad you are all together. there's 30 of you. we can hear some of you in the background. not sure if that's an announcement there but nithia, did you hear any shots fired? did anyone? >> i did not hear shots fired, but some of my co-workers in the union building with me heard definitely suspicious noises and our facility staft who was in the building at the time did hear shots fired. >> all right, well, nithya, stay

safe there with dark okay. >> thank you. >> all right. thank you. adrienne broaddus is with me. you heard nithya is sheltering with 30 people and some she was with at the student union hearing suspicious soups including shots fired. what is the latest you're learning? >> reporter: the most recent information we have is from michigan state university police as well as public safety and they're saying that the ime is being secured. they believe there's only one suspect at this time. for those familiar with the campus of michigan state, i am east of what was known to me as the gymnasium. it's where we would go for parties, this first happened according to michigan state police is that there were shots fired around what they called -- i don't want to say this

incorrectly. but near berkeley hall and that was on east lansing's campus. berkeley hall is not a dorm for those who may not be familiar. it's a place where students go for classing. the alleged shooting we don't know but as that student just said she's in a room with about 30 people and they are taking the advice of police and sheltering in place. berkeley hall is on the north side. ever driven through east lansing, it's on the back end of what i would call grand river. the furthest direction from the west side of the university. >> all right. adrienne, stay with me as you get more information, i think nithya charles is still sheltering. you heard what adrienne is talking about. one suspect talking about berkeley hall and the gymnasium. does this fit with what you're learning and hearing? >> yes, yes, hearing a lot of

different things in different directions. i think a lot are nervous but hearing about berkeley hall. >> are you getting updates regularly? how are campus officials communicating with you? i know you're there with 30 people. have they told you how long you may have to shelter or they other information? >> we were in the building when this originally happened and escorted out by the police. however, we haven't heard anything since then. we have a few people listening through like police broadcast channels, but no official word from police to the people in our building yet. >> no official word from police but did i understand you correctly that there were some police to escort you at the beginning to where you are? >> yes, that's correct. >> which is certainly very good to hear. how are you feeling right now and everyone with you, nithyy? >> it's hard to feel good about a situation like this. i think everyone is stressed and emotional but doing our best to remain calm. >> and how long, nithya, have you been in that room, the

lounge? >> i would say we've probably been in some sort of lockdown for about an hour and 15 minutes now. >> wow, one hour and 15 minutes, a long time and just to be clear they haven't given an indication how much longer? >> that's correct. >> adrienne, i know you're there as well and we were very grateful to nithya being able to speak to us. that's important context as you're reporting in that they've been sheltering in place for about an hour and 15 minutes. >> reporter: yeah, and just for clarity, we are en route to the campus. i'm just familiar with michigan state because it's where i did my undergrad. i spent four years of life there and one thing i do remember about campus, i always felt safe, i always felt secure. you would constantly see msu police driving and circling campus. when we heard about the first

shots from berkeley hall it has since changed and somewhat merged. home to the college of social sciences and it's also where a lot of the students who are studying public policy and other social issues attend and have their classes. i spoke with a few friends of mine who were also graduates from msu and they were saying, yeah, they don't remember much activity in that area when we were on campus, however, they know they went there for multiple classes and like any other college or university, msu has classes throughout the day, some are in the early mornings, some are night classes, and they've gone away from virtual classes that we saw during covid. >> right, absolutely. and in a moment i'll be joined by the former philadelphia police commissioner former d.c. police chief charles ramsey. first, nithya, if you're still there, have you been able to speak to some of your friends in other areas of campus? are they also under lockdown as far as you understand it?

is it campuswide? >> i have not spoken to many people on campus. i know most people are just staying inside kind of locking their doors especially those living closer to campus but that's all i'm aware of. >> thank you very, very much, nithya, please stay in touch and i hope this will resolve safely for all of you. governor gretchen whitmer has just tweeted. spoken publicly saying she's been briefed on the shooting at michigan state university. i quote it, the michigan state police along with msu police, local law enforcement and first responders are on the ground. let's wrap our arms and the spartan community tonight and keep everyone updated as we learn more and chief ramsey is with me now. chief, obviously there's a lot we don't know of the you can see the governor, you know, raising the question here of what she knows. you hear from nithyy saying she was under lockdown for an hour and 15 minutes and sort of at the student union there were some who heard suspicious sounds

and other gunshots. right now, we understand two shooting scene, multiple reported injuries but a lot to be found out at this point, chief. >> yeah, because right now we don't even know the nature of the injuries. was it a result of people running from something? >> right. >> are these gunshot wounds, so all this is information that will be trickling in over time. right now, police are actively looking to try to find the individual responsible for the shots fired and as far as the lockdown, it will remain in effect until they either apprehend the individual or they know that that person is no longer on campus and no longer a threat to the campus community. but that can take some time before they know that. >> right, and we understand at least again, i just want to emphasize to everybody, we know what we know now, and as we get more or as information changes we'll share it but understand that the suspect is on foot. so, chief, what does that mean? just to -- people can see roads.

this is a big campus and a lot of space. someone on foot in the dark, that raised a lot of questions about where they could be or how they could be getting away or what they could be doing next. >> yeah, not easy to find if they're on foot. and it is nighttime. so that adds to the problem that the officers have trying to locate the individual. that's why it's important that students pay attention to the alerts and actually shelter in place. do not let anyone in that you do not know. just stay where you are. sit tight until they're able to resolve this one way or the other. but more information will be coming in but right now, they just don't have a lot to tell you other than there is an active manhunt under way on michigan state university's campus and we don't even know the extent of injuries that have taken place right now. so there's just too many questions. >> chief, one other detail that nithya charles shared,

sheltering in a lounge. was they have been -- escorted by police and been there for an hour and 15 minutes. what does that say to you and as far as we understate they still don't know the extent of any injuries yet? >> well, i mean, this is still a situation that's just evolving. an hour and 15 minutes, yeah, i mean, probably feels like it's an entire day when you're under that kind of stress but that could go on for much longer period of time because until they find this person, and they're confident it's only one person and that person is no longer a threat to the campus, that lockdown is going to remain in effect. and so people shouldn't focus on the time. just focus on staying safe and staying where you are and don't let anyone in that you do not know. >> all right, chief, please stay with me. i want to bring in shimon prokopecz now.

what are you hearing? >> reporter: it started an hour and a half ago. and police were responding initially to the cafeteria area. you are seeing some officers standing around there. but what's going on is that they're looking for this alleged shooter for this gunman. that is something that right now is top priority going through the school through each room, through other areas of the school making sure that there were no other victims. we don't know what the injuries are to some of them. several have been injured but as we've been reporting we don't know the nature of those injuries. i can tell you in what's going on, the police have been organized. you know, what you see in these active shooter situations having

teams go in through each floor, floor by floor, looking for other potential victims through the stairs and the basement of the school and these other areas and also what police are dealing with are another 911 calls of people saying they see a man who appears to match the gunman or some suspicious activity so there's a lot of running around right now certainly there by the police as they're trying to get to this gunman they believe has fled. that's as a justice situation and look for the shooter. >> so, we understand one suspect on foot we believe has fled. they are trying to understand what damage was done, shooting injuries and all those questions. they do feel confident that there was one shooter hopped in these times often they had

initial reports, they had and michelle shooters. but in, the end it wanted to be just one. and there wanted to be one shooter. there been reports of people armed, rifles and that could be police officers are responding. the response as you can imagine is massive in a situation like this. all the local law enforcement there from every jurisdiction that is close by its responding. but to answer a question, they do believe it's only one gunman. >> chief ramsey, what does that say. they imagine they're trying to get a quarter off the entire university. but it's a lot of space. they'd have an incredible amount of surveillance cameras. >> a lot of video cameras around right now. michigan state is no different.

they're getting a parameter simone mentioned they were searching buildings, there's a lot of police activity going on right now it's something that is to recognize or something. we just don't know we, don't to speculate too much. right, now we are just trying to find responsible for the shots fired. that is number one. that is the first thing they have to do. let's roll the focuses. >> clearly the most crucial thing to prevent any more injuries. sherman, we don't yet know the nature of the injuries reported. >> the, timing it's late there -- at this hour, i think that to

me is something that is striking the time. so, now they're just looking for this gunman. >> all right, thank you both so much. our breaking news coverage is going to continue after this is cnn tonight and alex camera. you can't always prevevent what's going on outside... that's why qulipta® helps what's going on insiside. qulilipta® gets right to work. in a 3-month study, qulipta® significantly reduced monthly migraine days and the majority of people reduced them by 50 to 100%. qulipta® blocks cgrp a protein believed to be a cause of migraines. qulipta® is a preventive treatment for episodic migraine. most common side effects are nausea, constipation, and tiredness. learn how abbvie could help you save on qulipta®. people remember ads with a catchy song. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance,

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