hello. thank you for being with us. >> we begin in michigan where we just learned the identities of

two of the three victims from last night's shooting on the campus of michigan state university. brian frazier was a sophomore and alexandria verner was a junior. five additional students are hospitalized in critical condition and four needed immediate surgery. shortly after 8:00 p.m., 911 calls began to come in and report a gunman opened fire in a classroom at berkeley hall. then the student union as well. >> police named the suspect, 43-year-old anthony mcrae, killed by a self-inflicted gunshot wound but identified by a tipster shortly after police sent out this surveillance photo. >> we have absolutely no idea what the motive was at this point. we can confirm the 43-year-old suspect had no affiliation to the university. he was not a student, faculty, staff, current or previous. so that is an unknown right now.

>> the suspect was living nearby with his father in lansing. the father spoke to cnn by phone and said this. ever since my wife died my son began to change. he was getting more and more bitter and angry. bitter. so angry, evil angry he began to let himself go. his teeth were falling out and he stopped cutting his hair. he looked like a wolf man. john miller is following the story and learning details. what are your thoughts about what we've learned so far about this suspect? >> we are learning in small bits today but one key thing is the letter found in the backpack at the time he shot himself. this is a two-page document, rambling. it doesn't make complete sense on first reading. he talks about being angry, wanting to finish off lansing. he makes no mention of michigan state university or the target. he refers to other active

shooter cases, one in colorado, talks about shooting schools in new jersey, says there is 20 of me out there. it is a letter that blends some dysfunction, some anger, and some of his own hothoughts and disconnections from reality. it tells us if you combine it with what we learned from the father it tells us this is someone who was getting more and more unhinged. the backpack on the other hand tells us multiple magazines. lots of ammunition. a second weapon. that he went out prepared to shoot many more or much more than he did or he was on his way to a second location and that we will never know. >> so no direct connection that wean of to michigan state university but a note was found in his pocket and he indicated a threat to two ewing public

schools in ewing township, new jersey. what are your sources telling you about any threat or known threats to those schools? >> so there are none. this is probably in his dark fantasy about there being 20 of him. it is also probably reaching back as far as we can trace him, he seems to be from the trenton area. he is probably reaching back into his past and picking targets. but again, from a threat standpoint while they're acting in an abundance of caution notifying those schools and new jersey authorities, their assessment is there is no threat there. >> i mean, here we are again though. another mass shooting. we know this person had a history of mental illness at least according to his father and, again, access to so much weaponry and ammunition. >> it is interesting on the purchase he was able to purchase these guns himself in 2021 despite a limited criminal background. >> john miller, thank you. my next guest is a student at michigan state university.

thank you so much for joining us today. i am so sorry for what you and your community went through and are currently experiencing. where were you last night in terms of relations to campus? >> so i was at work at land shark bar, which is directly across the street from the union building right north of grand river. so i was directly outside when the shooting occurred. >> when did you first hear about the shooting or have a sense that something was wrong? >> so we were hearing rumors almost from other people that there was something going on. we quickly then received an e-mail from michigan state university, saying there was an active shooter on campus. at that time we then investigated, locked the doors up front. >> you had security there at the bar and i know they were filling you in real time onway they were

hearing. so did you, yourself, receive that message that read, run, hide, fight? >> yes, i did. from michigan state university. >> what went through your mind when you got that message? >> i was shook. honestly, it's something you don't know how to handle. you really don't. you can do this and do that but it doesn't change the fact of what is happening. >> what were you hearing from the students coming into the bar? >> everyone was scared and nervous. we had a few people come in that were present at the union and they were just really concerned and worried obviously for everyone's safety. >> have you ever felt unsafe on the university campus? >> not really, no. the police do a good job. we did have a scare last year over halloween break, but that got resolved. the police were very good about that. i feel safe on campus normally.

>> what year are you? >> i am a sophomore, second year. >> i know that some of these students had been in class in the evening. i'm just curious as to whether these buildings that house these classes require any sort of badge i.d. to come in or can anyone just walk into the buildings? >> most of those academic buildings as at berkeley or the union you do not need any badge or anything to get in. the residential halls you do need student i.d.s to get in. those academic buildings where the shootings occurred are open to the public until a certain time when it closes. >> do you think in light of these shootings that needs to change in order to make students like yourself feel safer? >> a hundred percent. we see this across the country happening, so yes, i do think something needs to change. >> logan, i appreciate your time. again, i am so sorry for what you and your peers had to

experience. i'm sure your parents were relieved to hear you were okay. thank you for joining us. the students are reeling from this most recent school shooting five years to the day of another shooting. 17 students were killed at marjory stoneman douglas high school in parkland, florida. president biden spoke about the tragedy just a few minutes ago. >> today marks five years to the day that 14 students and three educators lost their lives in parkland, florida. i met every one of those families and spent time with them all. a lot of you here have to confront violence in your communities every single day. we took a big step toward passing the most significant bipartisan gun legislation in 30 years, ghost guns and other things, background checks, but there is a lot more work to do. >> the co-founder of brady campaign's team enough program

and survivor of that shooting is with me. thank you for being with me. there have been more mass shootings in 2023 than days so, sadly, it was more likely than not there would have been a mass shooting yesterday. i wonder what went through your mind when you heard coming up on the five-year remembrance of the shooting in parkland that there was another school mass shooting, what did you think first? >> honestly i'm just going through a lot of emotions. i feel a sense of numbness, anger, frustration, confusion as to how and why we are still dealing with this issue of gn violence in this country. five years ago i almost lost my life in school and yesterday more young people lost their lives to this issue of gun violence in college. so right now i'm just -- i can't even focus on the emotions i am feeling from my own personal experience because i am so saddened that so many other communities are dealing with

this issue every single day. >> we have watched so many of these school shootings in the five years between parkland and east lansing, now michigan state university last night. i wonder with all the work that you're doing at change the ref and march for our lives, all of these organizations, if students are any safer in schools than they were five years ago? >> honestly, no. students are not safer. if anything, students are even more at risk for the issue of gun violence. for example, in states like florida we have people like ron desantis who are focusing on making permitless carry a thing while taking away books from students in schools. we see legislators focus on things that are not as important when the leading cause of death in this country for young people right now is gun violence. so, you know, the work we're

doing is not going unnoticed. but we have noticed that young people are still disproportionately impacted by the issue of gun violence. >> you are in d.c. for the never again tour to mark the five years since the marjory stoneman douglas shooting with other survivors, victims' families. this obviously was planned before the shooting that happened last night. i wonder what you think is possible legislatively now that you are bringing this mission to washington with what we've seen in the change in leadership and control in the house. >> absolutely. right now we know that assault weapons ban is number one on the top of the list. most americans agree that no individual needs a weapon of war or high capacity magazines for that matter. we need things like red flag laws across the country. we need resources in communities that lack mental health access or resources in schools for students. there is a lot people in

positions of power can do but they choose to turn their heads and close their eyes to the issue of gun violence. >> in this environment with the new leadership in the house, an assault weapons ban is highly unlikely. are there elements that you think are more likely to get through congress and get to this president's desk? i know a lot of work is happening on the state level but federally do you think there are maybe one or two that can happen? >> absolutely. for me personally i will continue to push for resources in our impoverished communities across the country. it is important to really listen to individuals from specific communities like brooklyn, chicago, birmingham, even broward county, florida. but, really and truly, we need to invest more money into our communities. we need to invest more money into our young people. making sure they have resources to talk about the issues that they might be dealing with evidently, probably is gun violence. so we need to make sure we have resources in their schools to talk about their mental health. we need to make sure they have

access to proper education and all these things that will make a life better. >> you're five years out now from surviving a massacre at your high school. the students at michigan state university are on day one. what coming for them in the next few weeks or months as they try to heal from what happened last night? >> absolutely. the journey of healing is different for everyone especially in the lens of something as traumatic and unexpected as this. honestly, in the first weeks of me surviving the shooting at my high school, i was super reserved to myself and didn't want to speak out. but i found power in advocacy and healing in advocacy. so, really, i just want to send my love and support to all of the young people that, you know, just experienced this horrific tragedy. but just to stay strong in these upcoming days and stay with your community.

being with your community and healing together is really how you get through something like this. >> alayah eastmond co-founder of the "enough" program. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you for having me. >> think about what we just heard. students advising students on how to cope with mass shootings at schools. we are doing something wrong. >> it goes from one generation now to the next. remember columbine was in 1999. so they now have high school students or schools, students in middle schools who go through these drills. this is a generational challenge that this country goes through that no other country goes through. >> uniquely american tragedy and we're failing our children. there is no other way to describe it. well, there are new challenges in the recovery of the three unidentified objects shot down over the weekend. all while senators get a classified briefing. we'll speak with one of those lawmakers next. plus the latest inflation numbers are out. while prices were still hot in january, there are some signs

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the three mysterious objects the u.s. shot down from the skies over the weekend. the white house says the leading theory is that they were benign balloons. >> today senators received a classified briefing on the national security issue. >> i'm confident this wasn't an attack on the country. i think it probably served the country well to have the president explain what is going on >> i am not in any way afraid that we are under a threat of attack or physical harm to our homeland but the american people need to know more facts. >> over that matter there wasn't anything one couldn't learn from reading your newspapers and watching news channels. >> our cnn pentagon correspondent has the latest and joins us now. why can't whatever is left of the objects be recovered? is it because of the difficulty getting to it and the terrain?

>> that is exactly right. the first two of the last three objects that we're talking about, the one shot down on friday off the coast of northern alaska and the one in the yukon territory in canada are in incredibly remote areas. very difficult to get to. and given the time of year very difficult weather to deal with. the third object, the one shot down on sunday a few hours before the super bowl, may well be at the bottom of lake huron. that has its own challenges in recovery. there is a bigger issue here and that is that the administration pretty much said until now the definitive answers about what this was or these were and where they came from could only come when the objects were recovered and studied in depth. now they say that might not happen. in the absence of that they put out what they consider their leading theory saying these were benign objects essentially balloons and there was no harm there. that briefing or that theory seems to be put forward by members of the senate who got a

briefing a short time ago on what was going on here even if there was some frustration with transparency. earlier today the top u.s. generals saying we may never see these objects that were downed over the course of the last few days. >> they are in very difficult terrain. the second one off the coast of alaska is up in some really, really terrain in the arctic circle with very, very low temperatures, in the minus 40s. the second one is in the canadian rockies in yukon, very difficult to get that one. the third one is in lake huron. probably a couple hundred feet depth. we'll get them eventually but it will take some time to recover those. >> many senators who came out of the briefing say it was good to get more information from the administration even if some were frustrated by lack of transparency and said quite a lot of what they heard inside a classified briefing could simply be told to the public. that is where we stand at this point.

recovery efforts are ongoing. in the case of the chinese surveillance balloon a significant portion has been recovered as the fbi begins its analysis there on what the u.s. has said is a chinese surveillance balloon looking at what it was capable of doing. >> there at the pentagon, thank you. joining us now democratic senator from michigan. thank you for being with me. let's start with the characterization from the white house that the leading theory is these were benign balloons. based on what you heard today are you as certain these presented no threat and were benign? >> well, it certainly is the leading theory right now. one thing is very clear is that they did not believe these objects had any weapons or were any kind of threat to anybody in the united states. there was no kinetic, no kind of explosions or bombs on it.

so that is what at least the pilots were assessing who were checking out the objects. the main reason for the concern was the altitude. they were at an altitude that could present a real hazard to commercial aircraft that are operating in that space and no question if a jet would hit that object and have serious consequences in the navigation, that was the decision for why to bring them down. clearly we won't know exactly. it was clear we won't know exactly what they were until or if we are able to recover any of the debris and that is looking very difficult. in my state in michigan and lake huron, lake huron is basically an inland sea, incredibly deep. if it has gone down to the bottom it won't be an easy task to get down there and look at what made up this object that was neutralized. >> we just heard the description

of the conditions there of how cold the water is where some of this debris is. but to the question of whether these were benign if they have not been collected and potentially will never be connected how can there be a leading theory on what these were if you don't know what the pay load on the first and second objects, these balloons were? >> yeah. and that is why you really have to recover the debris to know if there was a pay load. you know, also some question as to whether there was a pay load on the object shot down over lake huron. that is going to be some visual evidence. i was certainly frustrated not to get more information as to what did the pilots see, what was their description, videos taken. why don't we have an opportunity to see some of those to judge for ourselves and a better sense of what exactly we are dealing with here. that information i think is very important and people certainly have the right to know. >> senator cotton said he didn't learn much more than he is seeing on television or reading

in newspapers or online. did you get more, much more than we know that is in public reporting right now? >> well, there was some information basically how systems work and that is very classified. people should not know how surveillance systems work and sensors. that information was certainly provided and i found it very helpful to understand what tools are being used to evaluate objects. that is clearly classified and needs to be protected and certainly that was provided. >> is there any information you learned more than what is public right now about ownership, origin, connection between one of these objects and the others? >> no. there was no information and certainly it didn't appear there were markings of any kind at least that were shared with us in the briefing as to where that may have come from, if it was commercial, where there were, were there any markings related to that. none of that was very clear. that is why it's important for

us to have a chance to take a look at any images taken of these objects. that was not provided today. >> is it time for the president to speak to the american people about this? >> there has certainly been an awful lot of talk about it. people are concerned about it. >> what do you think? >> well, i think after we get more information if there is more information to glean, if the president should certainly let people know why we shot down three objects. it is certainly a concern for folks and transparency is always a good thing. >> let me ask you finally, you are not only the senator from michigan. you are a michigan state alumnus. we've been talking about this mass shooting that happened. three students killed, three students injured. the gunman took his own life. just your thoughts on what happened there at that campus as we confront gun violence especial late schools. >> oh, my god, yeah, it is horrific. as i got news yesterday and

talking to officials, just the horrifying situation students found themselves with a gunman that opened up going across campus. it is absolutely horrifying. as students were locked down and parents were scrambling to try to reach their student to find out whether or not they are safe, it is clearly a nightmare none of us ever want to confront and, unfortunately, many folks had to confront that last night. i just have like most people certainly our hearts go out to those families that have been impacted. there is always just anger and we can't let this continue to happen. we can't let our schools be the subject of these horrible acts of violence. about 15 months ago we had an oxford high school had a shooting, traumatized students there. many of the students are actually attending michigan state university now. and once again they went through another mass shooting at a place where they should feel safe, at

their school. that is not happening. we need to take action. we need to move forward. i am hoping certainly the state legislature will take action on a number of gun safety pieces of legislation that should move forward. i support things like red flag laws, i support making sure we have, we close the loop holes when it comes to background checks. we're still trying to find out more about the perpetrator or this person engaged in the shooting to find out exactly what possible motive he could have. i don't know what that could be or what his weapons were but regardless we know that gun violence is endemic in our society. we have to step up and take action. >> sadly, these students now, some of them living through their second mass shooting at school as you said. it's pitiful and pretty embarrassing that our students have to go through this. senator gary peters of michigan, thank you. >> thank you. mike pence is expected to fight a subpoena from the

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former vice president mike pence is expected to fight a subpoena from the special counsel investigating trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. sources tell cnn the move is tied to legislative privilege not executive. they say pence argues his former role as president of the senate shield him from testifying. the argument raises the constitution's speech or debate clause which protects legislators from certain law enforcement actions if the conduct in question is related

to their legislative duties. with us now to discuss is cnn legal analyst and former white house ethics czar norm eisen who served as a house judiciary special counsel in president trump's first impeachment trial. what do you make of this rather novel strategy from the former vice president and his lawyers? >> the executive privilege argument to resist testifying has failed so they are pulling another arrow from the quiver of constitutional defenses but it is not going to work because there is no absolute speech or debate or immunity for a vice president or anyone else from showing up in answering the kinds of questions we have here. >> well, he is going to argue i would imagine that this was not during his time as vice president but specifically as a president of the senate.

>> first, if you look at the speech or debate clause it says, senators and representatives not presidents of the senate or other constitutional officers. so it is limited by its own terms to senators and representatives. he was not a senator. he was not a representative. so he loses on that ground. and then the clause is also limited to speech or debate in either house. so if he were saying, well, i don't want to be questioned about what i was thinking when i was sitting in the chair presiding over the chamber that's one thing but it is dubious whether that blocks all questions about everything that happened in the runnup. now the courts have held that some things are considered legislative acts. i just litigated this issue in the lindsey graham case where he similarly tried, and he is a senator, and he similarly tried to say i don't have to show up for questions at all. he lost.

and so will mike pence. >> so if you were to advise mike pence, which you are not, you say the better solution would have been to follow the lindsey graham path and that is just to show up and answer each question by question and take it from there. >> well, if i were advising mike pence i would have to give him not only legal advice but political advice. this is the advice lindsey graham got, too. he fought furiously and lost in multiple courts and states and at the federal level and at the supreme court before he finally gave up. so pence is in a political pickle not just a legal one. because he doesn't want to look like he is cooperating with this investigation. he did the same thing with the january 6th investigation. he has to put up a show of resistance. i think that might be the right thing for him with the republican primary electorate. it is not the right thing for america, however, and so i do

think from a legal perspective he should say i'll show up. i'll answer questions. if some of them are constitutionally prohibited i'll object. that would be the legally and the proper thing to do and the patriotic thing. >> he has been willing to speak out and give interviews and write a book. how do you think that prosecutors, doj, will respond to this? >> i think they'll fight him as they have fought and won all the executive privilege arguments in the post trump presidency. that is why pence is not leading with executive privilege because those arguments failed like this one is going to do. i think they'll push back just like the prosecutors in the lindsey graham case where graham was wanted for the state prosecution that is possible in the georgia investigation. and prosecutors will fight it. they have to fight it because that there is no blanket immunity of this kind for a vice president under the speech or

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>> today's report on inflation shows the good news is that inflation in america is continuing to come down. it has fallen seven straight months with more to go. food prices at the grocery store are coming down. gas prices are down $1.60 since their peak. >> joining us is the chief economist with moodies analytics. is the president right to highlight, listen, on the one hand inflation is still stubbornly high. on the other hand and perhaps more importantly it continues to decline? >> yeah, that's right. inflation is still painfully high. the typical american household spends about $400 more a month to buy the same goods and services they did last year because of high inflation. that is painful for the typical household. it is coming down. go back to last summer when inflation peaked the same household would shell out well over $500 more a month to buy the same goods and services. we are moving in the right

direction. obviously for many americans painfully slow. >> so on the back side of a quarter point fed interest rate increase since then we've gotten the jobs report. more than 500,000 jobs created in january. huge number there. how does the fed interpret what they've seen since the last meeting? >> well, i think they're taking this in stride. you know, jay powell the chair that said inflation is coming in but it is not going to be a straight line to use the words bumpy. this is a bump. inflation is improving. it is not a straight line. it is going to take some time. i think all in all you can take a step back and look at the inflation data, we are moving in the right direction and with another one or two rate hikes

each time pretty much what the fed said they'd do, i think that will be sufficient to slow the economy down enough to quell the inflationary pressures by this time next year. so it is not exactly what you would write on a piece of paper but it is close enough. >> are you still optimistic we can perhaps avoid a soft landing and avoid recession all together? >> yeah, i am. actually more optimistic. this feels like we're moving in the right direction. the economy is amazingly resilient. yeah, the job market is strong but, you know, that shows resilience of the labor market and businesses. they are very reluctant to layoff and with good reason because they know on the other side of this their biggest problem will be finding workers and retaining workers. if you don't have lots of lay-offs i don't see how you have recession. i don't want to be polianish.

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this just into cnn, longtime democratic senator dianne feinstein says she will not run for reelection in 2024. >> she's 84 years old, first elected in 1992. she plans to serve out the two remaining years of her term. two house democrats, adam schiff, katie porter, they've already announced they are running. we'll continue to follow that breaking story but here's another story we're following, nikki haley is officially in the 2024 presidential race. the former south carolina governor is the first to rival donald trump while serving him in the white house. >> she'll kick off the campaign in charleston and visit two early voting states, iowa and new hampshire earlier this week. >> you should know this about

me, i don't put up with bullies. and when you kick back, it hurts them more if you're wearing heels. i'm nikki haley. and i'm running for president. >> alist is fair griffin is a former adviser, former trump communications director. welcome. she's made the announcement earlier than expected. first thoughts? >> i am excited for the first time since 2016. there are other credible republicans challenging donald trump, so, i'll start there. listen, it's a tough uphill battle. you've got ron desantis and donald trump pulling exceptionally high for this section of the race in the 30s. but she does have the qualifications to do it. i don't know nikki haley well. i've spent time with her in the u.n., i've seen her take on dictator it's and dispots face-to-face. i'm going to see how the next few months pan out. she hit the right tones with this announcement so she threw

some red meat in the conservative base. she wasn't leaning into cultural wars not that much. at least not making that front and center. i'm curious to see what the future holds. >> talk about the timing, i understand it is early and with trump going in early, there may have been political reasons as to why. with her, she's a well-known one. is this because of fundraising. >> desantis gets in, and he as a sitting governor has the benefit of the sideline, he can raise media attention and his i.d. while still not being declared. so there may be some strategic junction there. the trump factor is the wildcard. she's going to go low. and that's always a challenge but desantis has done extremely well so far while not having major opponents against him. this is another two-term

governor, a u.n. ambassador and someone to show something different than what he's offering. i'm curious how she navigates that. she's a got a two-fold job, defeat donald trump that's different than what's held. >> there is the trump and those not trump. she's going to have to explain where she is on trump and where she's been. she was in the primary in 2016, then went to work for him. then came back into the fold when she saw his political life wasn't over in 2021. and now she's running against him then. how do you reconcile that? >> that's going to be her biggest challenge if she had stayed where he was after the 2016 meeting, with it's time to move on, i think she'd be pulling higher than she is. she's going to need a full answer on that someone who has walked away from trump that's where you lose a lot of people like me. i'm curious how she runs on

that. at that point, you're not defining a lane, you're not going to get a big enough plurality of votes. now, desantis, possibly, right, the legislature just began. this is going to start in the spring. probably a few more months before they hear any is decision from him. others in the widths that expressed willingness, governor hogan, sununu. >> what does that mean for her? >> sununu, i would keep an eye on. one of the most popular governors in the country actually i think they're going to watch and see what lane she stakes out because if she truly is going to be, there's going to have to be someone to take trump straight on. if that's the lane she's running in perhaps they throw support behind her. if not, we expect some of those names to get in again, this is so early in the primary. i keep telling people don't declare it trump's party or desantis' party. we saw it with bobby jindal.

and walker. >> yeah. >> there's an appetite for leadership. >> senator tim scott was on television today sounding like he's going to jump in. he's going to early primary states soon. what do you think about his potential? >> he is beloved. i think donors love him. republicans love him. he's got a great story that i think appeals to the empathy to the compassionate conservatism that we didn't see under donald trump. there's so much being a governor, it's just baked into that experience and the donor base you could have. but he could be formidable. i'd love to see him get in. again, we don't need a giant lane where you've got a lot running because that only benefits donald trump. there's got to be a coalescing. >> thank you. thank you. with three objects hovering over north america in just three

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