♪ we're on "cnn newsroom." it is good to have you along. i'm victor blackwell. >> and i'm bianna golodryga. benign balloons that is the leading theory on what three mystery objects shot out of the skies could be according to the white house. but a senior official from the biden administration admits the u.s. and canada may never be able to recovery the debris from the objects which all flew at an altitude of 40,000 feet or meet.

joint chiefs chairman mark milley said remnants of each object fell in very hard-to-reach areas. >> they're in difficult terrain. the second one, off the coast of alaska, that's up in really, really difficult terrain, the arctic circle. with very low temperatures. minus 40s. the second one is in the canadian rockies in yukon, very difficult to get that one. >> the general said the debris from the third shot down in lake huron landed in 100 feet of water. officials say it's likely on the canadian side. today, senators received a classified briefing on the unidentified objects and senators from both parties ask that the president share more. senator marco rubio said similar objects were seen in the past. >> 90% of what was said in that room today could be made public without harming the public.

the other three instances as described both publicly and in there are not new. >> cnn white house correspondent jeremy diamond is here. so the white house briefing just started. what is the latest from the white house on these objects? >> reporter: well, victor, we know that the u.s. and canadian officials are still working to recover the debris from the three objects that were down between friday and sunday. questions about whether they will actually be able to recover any of those debris is still looming. but the white house is now offering what they say is the leading theory from intelligence officials. and that is, that these three balloons were most likely benign or for commercial purposes. here's the white house press secretary just moments ago. >> be potentially benign, but, of course, we want to make sure that we get the objects so we

can actually -- or the debris from the objects just to be more clear, so we can get a sense of what the objects were for certain. >> reporter: and that was a message that we heard earlier in the day from the national security spokesman john kirby who made clear that officials are hoping to recover the debris because they are hoping to learn a lot more about the objects if they are indeed able to recover them and inspect them, as was the case, with, of course, the chinese balloon that was flying at a much, much higher altitude which was downed over the coast of the atlantic ocean. now, we did see some of these senators come out of this classified briefing that they received earlier today. the overwhelming sense that we got from these senators is they were certainly reassured by the fact that these objects did not pose a threat to the american people. but there are still some of these senators, both republicans and democrats who say they would like to hear more from the administration. and they'd also like the administration be more

forthcoming with the public about what they know. and that includes hearing directly from president biden. so far, white house officials have indicated that president biden is not speaking about this yet in part, because there is still so much to still learn about these objects. and, of course, there are just kind of broader questions about what exactly the protocol is for downing these objects in the future. we know that one of the potential reasons why these objects were discovered is because u.s. military officials widened the aperture of some of their radar systems to be able to actually detect the slower moving and smaller objects. so, again, the reason why we could be seeing these could be because of radar changes but this administration very much still in the fact-gathering mode but questions and answers looked for from the public. victor, bianna. >> jeremy diamond, thank you. >> and with me now is republican congressman austin scott of georgia. he's a member of the house intelligence committee. congressman, great to see you.

>> thank you. >> as we just heard there, senators were briefed, and the majority of them seemed reassured that these objects do not pose a threat to the u.s. public. but there were some who differed. and we heard from senator rubio and also hawley, saying they needed to hear from the president and they were not reassured there were no threats from these objects to the american public. from your purview, where do you stand on the issue? >> i think the sooner we get the information on the balloons and the sooner we're classified, everything can be declassified on it the better off the american citizens and everybody will be. if they're benign, we need to make sure that the american citizens know that. and if they're not benign like the chinese spy balloon, then we need to make sure the american citizens understand what china is continuing to do, you know, to our country. >> well, it may be a while until we is find the republic pant thats of these objects as you heard there in the reporting

specifically because of just how further, and the difficulty getting to the location. the difficult terrain there and the weather. so, are you say that you go don't take the administration at their word that they're likely benign? because it may be a long time before we actually find them and get conclusive answers? >> oh, no, no, no, i'm not here to blame the current administration or previous administrations. i mean, it's a very serious issue that the united states is facing. the first to learn, the chinese balloon, the spy balloon, if you will, is a very serious issue and a threat to the united states of america. it is a continuing effort by china to defeat the united states in all aspects, whether it be militarily or economically. and so if the other balloons were benign, as soon as we know that for sure, we need to release to the american citizens. and we need to go back and focus on the one that was not benign. and remind the american citizens

whether it will be tiktok or fentanyl, with all of the strikes you can call them strikes, especially americans insure serving the country, so china's our enemy. i'll tell you, bianna, it's going to take all americans working together to defeat the threat of china and make sure we don't go to war with them. i was a little taken aback this week in less than two weeks china literallile flew a spy balloon over the united states of america. and ford motor company announces that ford is going to team with china to make batteries. that's what we can't have as americans. we have corporate america going to the other side to build their vehicles. >> so, how do you understand that, listen, it's consensus from both sides of the aisle on this issue, that it's very difficult to decouple

economically from china. and that a lot of americans, whether it's their jobs or just the overall economy depend on goods manufactured there. so how do you explain to your public about the jobs that you'd like to see at some point really curtailed from being sent there? >> well, look, the purpose of the legislation that was passed. i'm a republican, i didn't vote for the legislation. this is the problem of not taking legislation through the actual committee process where you get to talk about the actual potential changes that need to be made. i don't think my colleagues that serve on the house service committee intended for chinese technology to be eligible for u.s. tax credits. or for ford to partner with the chinese communist party to be eligible for tax credit. so, i think it would be wise for industry that is moving ahead with the chinese communist party to understand that, you know, legislation can be passed that actually changes the way that that tax code is written. and i'll tell you as someone who

is on the armed services committee the idea that we would allow chinese battery technology on our military installations, that's not in the best interest of the american citizens. >> and the united states has onboarded with chips along the lines. because you're on the house intel committee, the house chairman said he was pleased to see a trigger-happy biden administration, i guess, shoot at these objects that had been flying over u.s. territory and canada. is that a policy that you would sign off on, just shoot on whatever is flying over the united states? et cetera specially knowing that our radars and our technology have improved as such that we can actually see them better. >> yeah, i actually -- i agree with michael. i think most of the members of the intelligence committee are going to be on the same page and working with the administration. to make sure we are able to gather all of the intelligence we can off the balloons or whatever other device it may be.

and then make sure that we're protecting the american citizens while at the same time gathering all of the intelligence. then i do think that you'll see an effort from, i think, both parties to deal classify more information faster on these issues so that the american citizens have the facts. >> all right, congressman austin scott, thank you for your time. >> thank you. we're learning more about the suspected gunman who killed three students at michigan state university last night. his father described him as evil angry. what else he's revealing about his son, that's next. also ahead, incredible stories of survival, more than a week since the devastating earthquake hit turkey and syria. responders are still pulling people out of the rubble alive. ♪ what you gon' do? you ain't talkin' 'bout nothin'! ♪

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campus of michigan state university. brian fraser was a sophomore and alexandria varner was a junior. this photo was provided by her forthsuperintendent who knows varner's family. he told cnn, quote, she was everything you'd want your daughter to be. five additional students are hospitalized in critical condition. we know four of them needed emergency surgery. >> just after 8:00 p.m. 911 calls started coming in that a gunman started shooting in a classroom at berkey hall and a student unit. last night, we spoke to a member of the student union who was working across the street when the shooting started. >> most of those academic building like at berkey union, you don't need any i.d. to get in. as for the resident hall, you do need student i.d.s to get in. but the academic building it's

open to a certain time. >> police have named the gunman as 43-year-old anthony mcrae. he was killed by a self-inflicted gunshot wound. after they sent out this photo. police say he has no current or former affiliation with the university. and they have found no but they did find a note with him. we're joined now by cnn's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst john miller and cnn national security analyst julia kayyem. john, let's start with you, you got ahold of dispatch sound. tell us what we're hearing from this? >> so, after the shooting, the hunt going on for the suspect, the picture goes out and people start calling in. and units start to respond to these calls. a lot of them don't pan out, it's a jguy in a jeans jacket i dark pants but in this

description, they see a person who fits the description and they get out of the car to engage them. but is this a michigan state police unit that picked up that call that according to our colleague shimon prokupecz. he now has walked apparently 30 minutes from the campus when they encounter him on the street. let's listen. >> be advised, msp found the description. >> does it look like self-inflicted -- >> breathing? >> what's the status? >> clear, not moving. >> second firearm in the backpack. >> so they come it up there. they approached him. he's self-inflicted with the firearm. self-inflicted gunshot wound. firearm recovered, you hear him say, additional firearm in the backpack. then they go on to describe which you don't hear, a lot of

additional ammunition, which begs the questionful he didn't use it in the first shooting where was it he was walking? and was there another target. >> they also found a note on him. >> the note expresses two parts, dissociative personality, there are parts that seem to be fantasy and don't make sense. there are parts that show the anger. he says, they hurt me, i'm going to finish off lansing, the town. there's 20 of me and there are going to be other incidents. he talks about a target in new jersey. he references another active shooter incident in colorado. so, a lot of anger but not s specificity and no mention of the university. >> juliette, given the amount of ammunition found with him. the fact it was a tipster who provided the information after seeing the picture of the suspect possibly, most likely,

saved more lives? >> that's exactly right. we're about ten years from the boston marathon bombing which is sort of, in our space, sort of a pivotal moment where the realization that one ought to crowd source the ability of capturing, especially in these very short -- short-time frame incidents the perpetrator, because they might do more harm. people remember ten years ago, a momentous moment when the fbi comes out with pictures. it's now part of the standard operating procedure. you need the public's health. there's no reason to keep it from the public. they are the victims, it's their community. and that's exactly what happened in this case. it now happened -- the whole incident from the shooting and deaths of students to his self-inflicted wound, you know, was four hours. i mean, this is a remarkable time frame. so, when you say lives are saved, yeah. because he's not walking around for a day or two days or even

multiple hours where he can get a new place. that's -- i often say, that is how you measure success now in a world, and in a nation with guns and not being able to control these mass shootings is, you know, can you stop them faster? and i think that's what happened here. >> and, of course, after the shootings, we always look for red flags. i'm talk conversation, not legally. the father said ever since my wife died my son began to change, he was getting more angry, angry and bitter, evil angry. his teeth were falling out. he stopped cutting his hair. he looked like a wolfman. was there something that this father could have done that would have been of any consequence. i mean, we're not supposed to put this on everybody else to solve. this is of one man's doing.

he is the one that police say pulled the trigger. but you read that description, you hear that description, and what do you think? >> i mean, you have an individual who has two licensed, or legally purchased firearms who is clearly becoming unhinged. but his father said the guns have to go. he assured his father the guns weren't there anymore. and his father said, you know, i wasn't -- his room was locked up. i wasn't allowed in there. so, he is claiming he didn't know these weapons are there. which actually brings it for i'm concerned from my seaon's welfa up to the red flag level. so we'll have to take his story as told. >> yeah. >> and juliette, it's just another reminder that the president came out today pushing the assault weapons ban. given that congress, nothing much could be done even with a democratic congress and with him in office. i mean, aside from making

everything a fortress, what more can be done, let's be honest, we know what the culprit is. >> right, exactly. so, one is obviously responsible gun ownership for those responsible gun owners has to be part of how they focus their efforts. in other words, it cannot be, a vast majority of americans believe in responsible gun ownership and are also against the assault weapons ban. and part of it is law enforcement and responsible gun owners getting out there and talking about what are legitimate and obviously illegitimate ownership laws. there is also, i don't want people to feel like there's nothing to do. there's actually a lot coming out of the fbi, nypd and in terms of these red flag laws, trigger laws and others that are helping us understand where intervention might work.

we don't see that. but to minimize these harms. and then, of course, yes, we are at a stage where if we can get our response capabilities better, as we saw at msu, let's say, compared to uvalde, you definitely saved lives. they were in there in moments, with the surge capacity, the readiness to protect these kids. great communications to the students, to the family. but you're not going to be a fortress, because, ultimately, the american public is choosing not to be a fortress which i actually think is good. you don't want to lock down these colleges and universities. you want to learn from this. but, you know, at some stage, if we're a locked down nation, we're -- you know, i'm not ready to give up yet, let's just put it that way. >> well, optimistic words there, but reality sets in there have been more mass shootings so far this year than days on the calendar. john miller and juliette kayyem, thank you.

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the number of those killed across turkey and syria from last week's massive earthquake is now above 41,000. >> and even though it's been more than a week now, search

teams are still hearing survivors call out from underneath the rubble. imagine that. several people were pulled to safety today, including a woman who was trapped for more than 200 hours. two brothers were rescued from a collapsed eight-story building as well. and this survivor was able to wave to rescuers. he was trapped for 208 hours. cnn's jomana karadsheh is in turkey with more on these miraculous discovers. jomana, i'm just heading that president erdogan says 14,000 are hospitalized right now. so, clearly, there are survivors. what are you seeing on the ground? >> reporter: well, bianna, we're in the hardest hit provinces, and driving into the city today, it's very hard to find even a single building that hasn't been impacted. you've got entire neighborhoods here that have been flattened. the level of destruction is just stunning here. i mean, you know, we're

seeing -- we're starting to see this shift in focus of the mission, from search and rescue, to potentially preparing for this to be a search and recovery, more than a week now, but, yes, you do have these miraculous rescues, as you mentioned. just a few hours ago we met with u.s. volunteers. we're in antakya, they told us yesterday they helped save a 17-year-old boy who has been under the rubble for more than a week. and at the same time, you know, they say that it's something, like they have never seen before. they've certainly not seen anything on this scale. it's just so widespread. they have so many buildings here that you don't even have enough rescuers to really carry out these search and rescue missions in these buildings. these american volunteers telling us that they really felt helpless here. they did try to do their part. they have saved at least three

lives. but at the same time, they say there's so much to be done here. even with about 100,000 rescuers across this massive earthquake zone, they say that is enough. and they just feel absolutely helpless, as do many people, here when it comes to trying to save the lives of those who still may be miraculously under the rubble, or retrieve the bodies of those who lost their lives. though that their families are able to bury them, bianna. >> i'll take it. jomana karadsheh for us there in turkey. thanks so much. and for more on the thousands of people who are needing medical assistance, who need some health care, let's bring in the executive director of doctors without borders, united states. thank you for being with us. first, as you just reported with 14,000 in hospitals reported by president erdogan, explain the disparity between what they need, and what's available now

and how you're trying to fill that. >> well, a lot of aid and effort is under way in turkey. our focus is actually primarily in northwest syria, where we are now entering, as we just heard, the second phase of this from a medical standpoint. so that means you're going to have people with the effects of the injuries from the earthquake. but you'll also probably start to see more and more of the knock-on effects of people separated from their medications for chronic diseases. you still have all of the other pressures on the health care system. you have the risk of cholera in northwest syria. we just had a recent outbreak of cholera in the weeks leading up to this particular disaster. so the effort now is to retrieve bodies, and maybe the lucky few who survived, the ongoing medical needs will be long term. >> and saying in syria, the medical community was already strained prior to the earthquake

because of the years of war. how many equipped doctors, nurses, are there to help people? >> well, there are a lot of staff, medical staff who have continued, what we do know, at the facilities that they were working have either been destroyed or damaged, according to the world health organization, some 48 health facilities in northwest syria are unusable at the moment. and will need to be repaired right away. so the focus is to shift everyone who is able to work, including many of our staff. we had and continue to have, roughly 500 staff working in northwest syria, to ship them from the places we had to evacuate, or that are too damaged to be able to work in. to the facilities that are still functioning so that includes the maternity wards that are delivers babies. that includes the trauma hospital where is you've got the operating room theaters that are doing the surgeries. and all of the other services that are needed at a time like

this. >> you know, we put up a warning often when we show this video, a graphic video, because of the physical injuries that people are undergoing. but talk to me about the psychological first aid that your organization is offering. because, with something like this, that is so widespread, i mean, the scope of the damage is jaw-dropping. there's going to be a lot of injuries that we can't see. >> you're absolutely right. so, you can imagine that the days that some people were under the rubble in that terrifying moment being -- finally being saved, it's not over for them. they have experienced something catastrophic. and that's not even to mention all of those who have lost family members, have lost their homes. we know that this area of northwest syria was already suffering extreme shortages of all kinds of medical services but also of mental health services. so the psychological first aid that we utilize in a situation like this, where you may only see somebody one time, but you're trying to get them through the day, just to be able

to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives, it's a kind of cognitive behavorial therapy that's adapted to the cultural context, where you're trying to get them to focus on the future, on the rebuilding, on the hope that might still be there, even if it's still a small glimmer to reunite with family members and move on with their lives. so it's a short-term intervention. but we know for our staff, the aid workers, for the first responders in this disaster. not to mention the communities themselves, the wider population, that there will be major needs for mental health services. >> such an important point, it's miraculous when we see survivors whether adults or children. but the subsequent headline is they've lost family members in this as well. obviously, they'll need a lot of help. and whatever help you provide is just so welcome. avril benoit, thank you so much for everything that you and your organization are doing.

>> thanks for having me. sources tell cnn that attorneys for alex murdaugh are considering putting him on the stand to defend himself over the charges that he murdered his wife and one of his sosons. we're live outside the courthouse, next. using the finest materials, like indulgent memory foam, and ultra-conforming innersprings, for a beautiful mattress, and indescribable comfort. save up to $800 on select stearns & foster® justable mattresses sets. we all have a purpose in life - a “why.” no matter your purpose, at pnc private bank we will work with you every step of the way to help you achieve it. so let us focus on the how. just tell us - what's your why? hey, man. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance. so you only pay for what you need!

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♪ this is how we work now ♪ well, as we approach the one-year mark of russia's war on ukraine, defense seconds light austin and the joints chief chair general mark milley are in brussels for a meeting of the

nato allies looking into the next phase of the war. >> cnn's nic robertson joins us now from warsaw. explain what they see agency the next phase of this war in ukraine. >> reporter: one of the things is that the ukrainians want an offensive soon in spring. so an important part of that is getting the ukrainians the equivalent that they need to do that. another thing that is concern, while the russians have lost a huge number of men and tanks and such on the battlefield, their air force is still strong. but for the nato allies that the joint chiefs of staff and the defense secretary was speaking with today it's about getting all of the nations' contributing until a meaningful way. 11 nations contributing armored fighting materiel. nine nations contributing air defense system. you need integrated air defense. you need integrated training. and train is one of the things that we've been seeing ukrainian troops get here in poland.

important training on tanks. after just a week of training, ukrainian tank crews show off their new skills on a polish gun range. the first time the leopard ii training has been put on display. the crews pull direct from ukraine's eastern battle front. too soon to say what's best about the leopard 2, ukraine's tank trainer says, but the machine is good quality. and what is most important, my soldiers like it a lot. they're training fast-tracked. 12 hours a day, six days a week. compared to the polish standard, eight hours a day, five days a week. polish instructors say the ukrainians will be ready in a month. most of them have some tank skills already, the polish brigadier in charge says. they're so keen to learn. we have to hold them back.

in peace time it's rare if ever the tank crews are raced through their training like this. it's a sign of how much they're needed at the front lines. that they're being accelerated through their leopard 2 apprenticeship. poland's president who has been at the vanguard of pushing nate to nato allies to give battle tanks came to see the ukraine ian cre. a big publicity to poland's commitment to ukraine and a flavor of what u.s. president joe biden will hear when he visits next week. a pitch for join tank brigade. >> among the groups -- >> translator: i hope that soon the brigades will be ready for ukraine. it also includes american abrams tanks so the ukraine can counter

the russian offensive. >> reporter: the tanks and the training only part of readying this new force for war. >> translator: the biggest challenge now is spare parts for these tanks. we are setting this task to the german defense industry. >> reporter: for the ukrainian tank crew, patiently parked up and waiting through most of the polish president's visit, priority is get back to the war, even if that means the training is sped up. i think that the training time will be enough for us to get to grips with the technology, he says. we are lacking a lot of heavy armor like this. if we get it, it will be much better. on this training ground, perhaps more profound than tank skills honed, history in the making. the foundations of a fully

modernized nato-compatible ukrainian army being laid. so, what we were watching there were 21 different tank crews getting trained. now, we know the germans have started training tank crews as well. the commander there said it's going to take about a month to get the crews ready. but president zelenskyy wants about 300 or 400 tanks. so the stinger in the tail of all of this the training is done and it's going to be a year or certainly the end of the year before he gets enough tank crews ready to use the tanks. that gets to the issue that general miley and lloyd austin are concerned about integrating and getting ready for the ukrainians in a timely manner. >> interesting. thank you. a terrifying moment on a united flight after it plunged towards the ocean getting as low as just 775 feet from the water. all of those frightening details

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more testimony today in the double-murder trial of alex murdaugh accused of killing his wife and son in 2021. >> randi kaye has this new reporting. when could the defense make a decision about whether murdaugh will testify? >> reporter: well, right now, they are considering it. they want to see, from what i understand from the source familiar with this, see what the prosecution does in the next day or so. they're supposed to wrap up their case tomorrow, so right now the defense wants to see what they're going to do, and they believe it will be a last-minute decision is what i'm

told as to whether or not they put alex murdaugh on the stand. this afternoon we have been listening to emotional testimony from maddie murdaugh's sister, marian buckner. she was asked to go to the property where the murders took place by alex murdaugh on the day of the murders. she had a conversation with her that day around 4:00 and said maggie had been told by alex they were going to see his father, who was dying. she also shared what she thought was a pretty odd conversation she had with alex in the days after the murder. she asked him if paul and maggie had suffered, and he said no, but then he said this. listen. >> i asked him, i said, alex, do you have any idea who did this? we have to find out who could do this. and he said that he did not know who it was but he felt like whoever did it had thought about

it for a really long time. >> reporter: another key moment in her testimony was when she was asked about the kennel where is the murders took place. she told the jury alex murdaugh told her he was not at the s kennels earlier in the night, only later in the night when he found his wife and son dead. that is interesting because he also told that to investigators, but there's that recording from paul murdaugh's phone which the state and many witnesses have said they recognize alex murdaugh's voice on that recording. >> randi kaye, thank you so much. so, this was terrifying, this on board a united flight. >> the plane plunged thousands of feet toward the ocean seconds after taking off from hawaii. gabe cohen has more. >> reporter: another alarming incident in u.s. aviation. a united 777 diving toward the ocean just after takeoff. >> it really felt like a roller

coaster. >> reporter: rod williams was traveling home from vacation with his family. >> you start counting your blessings, start asking yourself is this the last time you'll see your family. >> reporter: the flight takings off from maui december 18th, climbs 2,200 feet, then suddenly plunges 1,400 feet toward the ocean, falling for 21 seconds, just 775 feet above sea level before abruptly leveling out and rapidly ascending once again. the plane, which can carry more than 300 passengers, was mostly full according to williams. what did the pilot tell the passengers? >> got on the intercom and said probably felt a couple gs on that one, and everything is going to be fine, it will be okay. >> reporter: the crew itself reported the incident after landing safely in san francisco according to the faa. after its investigation, the pilots, who have a combined 25,000 hours of flight time, received additional training,

but neither the faa nor unite willed say why the pilots ended up in a dive, telling cnn those safety investigations are confidential. >> they're being corrected to prevent this behavior from happening again, which indicates to me that something occurred that could have been prevented by the crew. >> reporter: les is a retired 777 captain from a major airline. what might have happened here? >> there's numerous that could happen in the cockpit that would cause a distraction. and they may have unintentionally lost control of the airplane to the extent that the altitude decayed. >> reporter: it's unclear if weather played a role with a severe storm pounding parts of that day. >> it was torrential. >> reporter: hours earlier, 36 people were injured during extreme turbulence on board a hawaiian air flight approaching honolulu after a cloud shot up in front of the airplane in a matter of seconds and there

wasn't enough time according to the ntsb. from cancellations to system meltdowns, two near collisions in new york and another place and this mysterious incident with little explanation. and we have just learned that the ntsb is now investigating this incident. so far, both the airline and the faa have kept the cause confidential because the crew self-reported, part of a program to encourage more crews to do the same. though we expect there could be some more transparency with the investigation. >> gabe cohen, thanks so much. >> thanks, gabe. thank you for watching. "the lead" witith jake tapper starts after this break. ♪ cargurus. shop. buy. sell. online. this week is your chance to try any - subway footlong for free. like the subway series menu.

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