tv CNN Newsroom CNN February 22, 2023 6:00am-7:00am PST
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ii, ain't nothing like that has happened. things have changed radically. we have to make sure we change them back. so thank you all very much for allowing me to be with you and i look forward to our private discussions. >> thank you very much, mr. president. >> president biden, the last speaker there in warsaw, poland, as he is speaking with the bucharest 9. not going so far as to say they'll invoke article 5 of nato which is an attack on one is an attack on all, but he's saying they will do everything they can to defend buicharest 9 and the borders. >> a huge moment for this president on the world stage and a very significant week as we get close to one year since the russian invasion of ukraine. jim sciutto and kristin fisher pick it up. >> have a great day, everyone. >> see you. plan
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. good morning. i'm kristin fisher. >> and i'm jim sciutto. just moments ago president biden speaking in warsaw, poland as he met with the nato countries closest to russia's borders. the u.s. and its allies are facing the daunting challenge of how to keep the momentum on ukraine's side one year after russia's invasion. >> and this morning vladimir putin meeting with a top chinese diplomat in the kremlin as china denies reports that it may be sending weapons to russia. still, putin says they are reaching new milestones and there may be a meeting in the works between the russian and chinese presidents pretty soon. let's begin with president biden meeting with members of what's known as the bucharest 9. cnn's chief white house correspondent phil mattingly live in warsaw. phil, we just listened to the president's fairly brief
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remarks. what was your takeaway from his comments? >> reporter: i think what's most interesting about what the president is doing today, his final event before heading back to the united states, is what's happening behind closed doors. this is expected to be a lengthy meeting between the president and the nine members of the bucharest nine as well as the nato secretary general. for context here, i think everybody paid attention to the stunning secretive, surprise visit to kyiv. everybody was watching the speech yesterday in warsaw. i think these are all connected. but this meeting is critical. as the president laid out, this is the front line of nato. this is the kind of tip of the spear, if you will, of the defensive alliance. these are the countries i think when you talk to u.s. officials they acknowledge have the most to lose and certainly are the most uneasy about what they have watched over the course of the last year. it was an alliance essentially that was put together in the wake of russia's attempted annexation of crimea. and while they are not monolithic in what they request, what they ask for and what their positions are as it pertains to russia, they have made clear that they want more assistance,
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they want more action from the united states, and most importantly, i think this is why the president's meeting today is so critical, they want a very clear commitment. the president has made that commitment over and over again. verbally we heard it yesterday in warsaw talking about article 5 and the sacred oath that that represents when it comes to nato and nato members. reiterating that in person, underscoring the commitment of the united states and also listening to what these individual leaders and what their countries need, want, and would like to see in the months ahead is critical. it also gets to something that we've seen throughout the better part of the last 11 or 12 months which you heard the president talking about, and that is the idea of keeping a western coalition today. there's a lot of trepidation about the ability to keep very divergent interests. certainly they may have a broad ideological similarity but not necessarily the same domestic equities, political equities, regional equities, keeping that all together. and this group of leaders, bucharest 9, eastern flank of
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nato members is the critical component, perhaps the most critical when it comes to the risks they face on a day-to-day basis. >> already defying expectations of unity since russia invaded a year ago. let's go to the pentagon and oren liebermann. you have new reporting this morning about what russia was trying to do as the russian president was announcing the official suspension of its compliance with the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. tell us what you're learning. >> russia carried out a test or attempted to carry out a test of its intercontinental ballistic missile. capable of carrying a warhead and a nuclear warhead. it's likely the test of the satan 2 missile likely failed. why is that? because it was carried out in the days before the state of the nation speech by russian president vladimir putin that we saw just yesterday. and had the test succeeded, it's likely the officials say that
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putin would have boasted about it in some way during his hour and 45 minute speech. instead there was no mention of any missile test. it's worth noting that this is a missile that putin has boasted about in the past. in the last successful test back in april, he said this missile would give thought to those who choose to threaten russia. so, again, the officials say it's likely that had this test been successful, putin would have brought it up in his state of the nation speech. when cnn asked the kremlin about it, the spokesman declined to comment saying it's sicmply a matter for the ministry of defense. it is worth noting that the u.s. did get notification from russia under new s.t.a.r.t. treaty obligations ahead of the launch. u.s. officials say it wasn't deemed a threat, but the timing here very interesting of the not only ahead of the state of the nation speech where putin was looking for a victory, one he couldn't get on the ground in ukraine so perhaps he was looking to a successful icbm
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test to claim victory in the speech. and then of course there's the president of president joe biden as he was on his way to ukraine, a trip that was carried out regardless of this missile test. >> thank you so much. i want to bring in retired u.s. navy commander, kirk lipold. good morning, commander. >> good morning, kristen. >> i'd like to start where oren left off and really get your take on this failed icbm test. the u.s. saying they did not view it as an anomaly or an escalation. but i'm curious how you view it. >> i think both the u.s. and russia routinely carry out tests of their icbms in order to make sure that that leg of their triads is operational and can respond to any type of threat or emergency where they may need to use it. the fact that russia tried it, especially on the eve of putin's speech, is significant because
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it does show that their system did not work as designed and that in fact it is a failure by his not being able to brag about it, so to speak, during that speech. >> and it shows that they were at least willing to try to test it right before president biden was there. >> let's talk about treaties themselves here. >> absolutely. >> because the russian president officially suspended russian cooperation, compliance with the s.t.a.r.t. treaty. the u.s. position has been they haven't been cooperating already. but you have that happening. you had the end of the intermeade i can't tell nuclear forces treaty a couple of years ago. there are no treaties with china in terms of their weapons totals as they rapidlyin cro in kcreas. are we entering an era of the end of such treaties and perhaps a new nuclear arms race? >> jim, i don't think we really are. when you look at it, you are seeing a destabilization in the eyes of many people that view
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the nuclear weapons world. with russia pulling out of these, they're using it more as a signal. i think back channel you're still seeing some of the communications going on. clearly russia notified us of the attempted test of the satan 2 missile even though it was unsuccessful. we are beginning to see, however, that china is beginning to engage with a number of icbms that they are building, the buildout of a submarine ballistic missile launch capability. they're going to continue to build. at some point we're going to have to re-enter into those negotiations. i think people realize when it comes to nuclear weapons, it is a weapon you do not use to bluff. it is a weapon of last resort and you have it more as a stabilizer and deterrent, not as an actual use weapon. but every nation that has them is prepared to use them, whether it is the u.s., the united kingdom, france, or even russia today. >> while president biden meets with the bucharest 9, you can see moments ago president putin
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meeting with some top chinese officials. what do you think it would mean to this conflict in ukraine if china does indeed start to supply weapons to russia? >> i think what that would do isis issin -- is in reality destabilize markets worldwide. china would bolster a nation that is engaged in an unlawful action, unlawful war in ukraine and sets the tone for what might happen in taiwan. while there's a whole host of issues associated with that, the fact that china would enter into this type of agreement where they would provide arms or intelligence, the last thing we want to do is have that kind of access begin to form again where you see russia, china, and even on the outskirts you're seeing iran with their drone program they're giving to russia, that is serving as a destabilizing force. i think china will get involved to a point but president xi is
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not going to do anything that interferes with his economy continuing to come out and grow as a result of the covid over the last few years. so that's going to be his red line is i'll play, but not if it affects the economy. >> we'll see. certainly concerns in ukraine that this would lengthen the war as we approach the one-year anniversary. commander kirk lippold, thanks so much. >> thank you. let's go to ukraine now. maria is a member of ukraine's parliament. good to have you on this morning. we hope you're safe there. >> good afternoon from kyiv and good morning to you in the studio. >> i want to ask you about the topic we were just discussing there and that is u.s. officials warning that china is now considering arming russia in its war against ukraine. there had been a lot of hope in ukraine this could be the time ukraine breaks through those russian lines in the east. if china enters, what would that do to this war? would you be concerned that it might take away ukraine's advantage here, make it more
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likely russia wins? >> definitely this is a very hot topic on the news, and after the u.n. security conference which recently happened in germany, we understand that the promotion of the peace plan of president zelenskyy including the nuclear threats was addressed to chinese government who said back then that they have no intention to be directly involved in the war of russia against ukraine. i totally agree that the markets will react immediately, markets in europe, in the u.s. no one would -- no one would expect there would be, you know, nothing coming out of that. moreover, we are approaching the so-called anniversary of the full-scale invasion, of the aggression of russia and 1.7
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billion people were affected. so this is a choice of china, of course, but i doubt in my humble opinion starting in chinese politics and speaking chinese, i read some news. i doubt that they will go full scale openly supporting russia efforts in terms of the military sense. let's be blunt here. we are receiving a load, a load of heavy weaponry support coming very soon to ukrainian territories to deoccupy those territories that are temporarily under russian occupation. >> marimaria, there have been s many moments over the last few days, president biden walking the streets of kyiv, his speech last night, president putin's speech. i'm curious out of all those moments, which one do you think left the biggest mark as we approach this one-year anniversary of the war? >> you know, i didn't have a chance unfortunately to watch
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president biden's live address. i was in the city of kharkiv, which again was under the shelling today of the russian rockets. when i saw a repeated video, when president biden, president zelenskyy, the leaders of the free world commemorated the so-called holy heaven who gave their lives back in 2014 for freedom, for our common values, for our european choice of development, for better future for every ukrainian, they were from different regions, different ages, men and women, business people, doctors, teachers, et cetera, for me it was so highly appreciated because i had friends who have given back then their lives, who have given their lives today for the freedom we are fighting for. i think it was the most powerful, most powerful moment of this almost 12 months of direct aggression. i can tell you ukrainians were
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not expecting president biden to arrive to ukraine. it was very powerful, very symbolic on the day of celeb celebration. i didn't even spend my time listening to what putin said addressing people i understand it was very badly received in the world when he said the west launched this attack, which is absolutely not true. >> well, it's fantastical, right? russia invaded the country a year ago. maria, good to have you on. please stay safe. >> thank you so much. up next, former president trump headed to east palestine, ohio, as criticism mounts over the response to that toxic train derailment. hear what the epa chief is telling cnn about the cleanup. plus problems on the road and in the air with seven states under a blizzard warning this morning. already more than a thousand flights cancelled, crashes like
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sofi. get your money right. just in, the palestinian ministry of health says at least ten palestinians have been killed and more than 100 others injured in a rare daytime operation by israeli military forces. among the dead two islamic jihad commanders. >> i wonder what we know about the target of this operation, whether there are any civilian casualties. we did have a recent operation a few weeks ago where a grandmother was killed as part of the action. what do we know at this point? >> reporter: what we know so far is this was a very rare midday raid. when the military carries out these operations they're often overnight or in the dawn hours. something in the middle of the day is very unusual. the israeli military just in the last hour released a statement saying they did so because they had intelligence that these people were planning to carry
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out an imminent attack. we are also just now hearing from the israeli military that one of those militants that they say they killed was somebody who they say was responsible for the killing of an israeli soldier a few months ago. so far what we know is from the palestinian ministry of health that at least ten palestinians were killed and more than 100 injured. most of them by live ammunition. the palestinian ministry of health saying this is a huge number for this type of operation, a huge number for the west bank. even though it's seen a lot of violence, a lot of death and injury in the past year or so, these numbers are quite massive. now, palestinian islamic jihad as well as the militant group are saying that some of their fighters, including some of their commanders, were killed and were part of the action, but we're still working through who were militants killed, who were potentially civilians caught in the crossfire. israeli military saying it was both in response to what they say was intelligence about an imminent attack but also an
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opportunity in their minds they say to go after these militants. this is one of the hot spots in the occupied west bank, a hot spot of the militant activity that we've seen in the past year. but the numbers today bringing the number of palestinians killed so far this year, keep in mind we're still in february, to something like 61. we also have had 11 israelis killed so far this year. it's only february. but now because of the action in the west bank, because of the target being islamic jihad, which keep in mind they have a foot hold in gaza alongside hamas, a lot of eyes are going south towards gaza. when things like this have happened in the past, oftentimes we get a response from gaza. that could be rockets fired from gaza overnight along with an israeli military response. we had that last august. keep an eye on the night sky tonight in gaza because we may see more of that tonight. de guys. >> more than 100 injured in the
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middle of the day, that's staggering. hadas gold, thank you so much. the epa is ordering norfolk southern rail to cover all cleanup costs for the train derailment that spilled those toxic chemicals in east palestine, ohio. here's what the chief of the epa told cnn this morning. >> they have to design a very specific work plan that's approved by epa. so we're going to make sure that every single step is included. no stone is left unturned. because the fact of the matter is, they caused this trauma to the community, and we're going to make sure that they pay for it. >> contaminated soil at the site of the derailment is the next hurdle in the cleanup. norfolk southern is already operating on the tracks again, but ohio's governor says that will need to stop so the tracks can be removed and the contaminated soil underneath can be taken out. cnn's miguel marquez joins us live from east palestine, ohio. miguel, give us an update on when we can expect this preliminary report on the wreck
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from the ntsb. is it coming any time soon? >> reporter: we expect it fairly soon. i think a lot of people are watching for that because that, especially for the governors of ohio and pennsylvania, may inform them as to whether or not any criminal charges will be brought in this disaster. there is absolute deep distrust and people want to see something happen to norfolk southern and to prevent this sort of disaster from happening again. i want to show you the -- here's the human cost of it. this is a creek that runs right through the town of east palestine. it's starting to rain so the level of the creek has gone up a bit. they just replaced -- you can see those white barriers in there. that is an absorbent barrier. they mix up the water, pump air into the water trying to keep it mixed up so any chemicals, any toxins can be absorbed by that barrier. they have just pulled out a couple of those barriers. this one right there in that plastic bag, you can see the
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discoloration in it. that's the sort of stuff they're trying to capture. two streams in the middle of town that they are treating right now. but this is a very widespread area. the concern that people have is not only was there the crash or the derailment and all of those cars sort of went off the tracks and some of them spilled but there was that controlled, quote, unquote, controlled burn of a toxic chemical that sent a massive plume up not only over the town but the farmland around it, all the way into pennsylvania. then they found out there were even more chemicals on that train than they realized to begin with. so lots of question. the epa now coming in to put their stamp on it and assure people that someone is in charge, someone is taking responsibility, and that this mess will be cleaned up over the they're saying now years to come. and all entities, the states of ohio and pennsylvania, the federal government and norfolk southern now stepping up to say
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they are fully committed to the cleanup. back to you. >> miguel marquez, good to have you there. just ahead, the forewoman in the georgia grand jury that investigated former president trump's and his allies' efforts to overturn the 2020 election making public comments about some of their recommendations. >> i'm not the judge, i'm not the lawyers, but i -- i will be frustrated if nothing happens. >> coming up, you'll hear what she had to say about criminal charges that they recommended. at ? create something new? our dell tecechnologies advisors can provide you with the tools and expertise you u need to bring out the innovator in you. ery piece of land has a story -
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heavy snow, ice, extreme cold, it's all part of this massive weather system stretching across 29 states. look at that. >> airlines have already cancelled more than 1,000 flights. take a look at this video from south dakota, near whiteout conditions, wow, as the storm blows through. minneapolis, as much as 20 inches of snow could fall today. that would be the most there in 30 years. adrienne is in burlington, minnesota. how does it look there? looks chilly. >> reporter: it's beautiful. it is cold, but hey, at least the sun is shining. and that ice that you're talking about could be a bigger problem compared to the snow. but let's focus on what's happening here in my favorite state of minnesota. they are expected to receive significant snowfall. as you mentioned, perhaps the greatest snowfall in the last 30 years, at least up to two feet. right now don't be deceived by what's happening. there's a love in this storm.
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we've already gone through round one and there is more snow on the way. and forecasters say the roads will worsen as well as the weather conditions. but here the department of transportation is prepared to handle it. there are more than 800 snow plow trucks throughout the state and 1,600 drivers. since 7:30 this morning local time there have been about a hundred crashes. so if you have to go out, please take it slow and play it safe. jim. >> adrienne broaddus, thank you so much. so the foreperson of the atlanta-based grand jury that investigated former president donald trump's attempts to overturn the election is speaking out on the panel's recommendations. listen to this. >> it's not a short list. i will say that when this list comes out, you wouldn't -- there are no major plot twists waiting for you. especially if you've been following the investigation. i can't see it being a shocker.
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>> that was an interview that was hard to stop watching. portions of the grand jury's final report made it clear that they believed perjury charges were warranted for some witnesses and the case now in the hands of the fulton county d.a., fani willis. >> paula reid is here with more. listen, a lot of people were surprised that the foreperson was speaking about this publicly. georgia law does allow her to do this. so i wonder what the law says here about public comments about that. >> jim, you're absolutely right. she is allowed to do this. the judge asked her not to discuss specific deliberations and she has declined to comment on the specific charging recommendations. but doing something like this could potentially impact the case. the trump defense attorneys, one of the arguments that they have made about fulton county is that they argue this is politicized. they say the district attorney is elected, she's trying to appease constituents which is why she is largely expected to indict the former president. now they're also going to point
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to the jury forewoman and say she went on national television and said she would be sad or frustrated if nothing happens here. now, one piece of news that i did glean from this was she talked a little bit about former chief of staff mark meadows. this is the first time it's been confirmed that he did go before them and talk. but she said that he invoked executive privilege and his fifth amendment right and they didn't get much out of him. take note special counsel jack smith who is also trying to get answers from him. but she said she also believes this was not a partisan pursuit. it was her impression that the district attorney was really trying to be fair. but when you go out and do something like this in the court of public opinion, it doesn't exactly instill trust in the process. >> yeah, and fascinating that she decided to do this and speak so publicly about it, even though she could. paula reid, thank you so much. so up next, alex murdaugh's double murder trial resumes after his lone surviving son, buster murdaugh, testified in his father's defense.
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right now testimony is about to resume in the double murder trial of alex murdaugh after his surviving son took the stand in his defense. you're looking at live pictures from inside the courtroom, as the defense prepares to resume its case. and then yesterday, of course, murdaugh's son, his surviving son, buster, testified that his dad was a loving father and husband who couldn't possibly have killed his wife and other son. listen to this. >> his demeanor was -- i mean he was destroyed. he was heartbroken. i walked in the door and saw
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him. i gave him a hug and just -- just broken down. >> could he speak? >> not really. >> was he crying? >> yes, sir. >> joining us now is cnn legal analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson. joey, we just heard buster murdaugh saying that his father was devastated, heartbroken. how effective of a witness do you think he was for the defense? >> yeah, so kristen, good morning to you. i think very effective. obviously having said that, that's his son, so what would you expect him to say. so it's important to contextualize this for the following reasons. the prosecution is the one with the burden of proof. the defense does not have to put on a case at all, right? however, having said that, they are about the defense, reasonable doubt. what might provide that doubt? motivation is very significant. why? motivation you don't have to prove. if you're the prosecutor, it's not an element of the offense
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charged but inquiring minds want to know why. why would you do this? what the defense is doing here putting on buster, one of the significant things they're doing is to counter that motive. this is a father who loved his wife, who loved his son, who loved his family. as a result of that, what would be the motivation by which he would undertake such a heinous act. that's one thing. what else? there was something very significant, kristen, and that was the alleged confession. prosecutors were saying that alex murdaugh said i did him so dirty. the son, buster, came on to say no, my dad didn't say that. he said they did him so dirty. not only did he say it then but he repeated to me again. the final thing is you want buster to add some context to his father. there was a notion that his father showered after the murders because he was showering to get rid of anything on his body. his son noted that my father showers very regularly. and finally, with respect to visiting his mom, the prosecution had suggested that that was done as an alibi. no, said buster, my dad visited
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his mom quite often and it wasn't on any set schedule. so i think to that extent buster really laid it out and provided the element of reasonable doubt, which is what a defense attorney always looks for. >> joey, one other big moment in court yesterday that i want to get your take on. alex murdaugh's defense attorney getting up, pointing a gun at the prosecution and kind of laughing and saying, tempting. it was a wild moment inside the courtroom. let's watch it and then i want to get your take on the other side. >> so i am not 5'2" or 5'4". i think you said 5'2" to 5'4". but position me -- tempting. i don't know how i can do this i'm not pointing at somebody. >> so you can hear people in the courtroom kind of laughing. but you know, joey, i'm from texas. i was taught you don't ever
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point a gun at anybody ever. what did you make of that moment? call me old-fashioned, but i couldn't believe it. >> so, kristen, two things, right? the optimist of me really believes and thinks that isn't some times in very stressful events in a courtroom, and there are many, there are moments of levity. so perhaps just humorous in those moments of levity really creep in. on the other end of it, certainly you never want to point a gun at anyone and certainly during a trial in which tensions flare and people are on opposition, there certainly are moments where you may not like the other side. however, i will not prescribe to that view. the final thing, kristen, and that's this. it's important to make note of what that witness was speaking to, and that witness was the expert for the defense and they were asserting that the trajectory of the weapon would be suggestive of alex murdaugh having not shot that gun. why? because the trajectory would suggest that he would have had to have it down by his kneecaps.
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since he's 6'4" it would not have been him, says the defense, who fired that weapon. so not to get lost in the mix of all that that occurred in terms of whether you want to call it bad humor or whether you want to call it levity, that was the essence of that expert witness's testimony, which the defense believes is very helpful to the notion of reasonable doubt. >> all very good points, joey. since you and i have been speaking, they have been talking in the courtroom about the possibility of alex murdaugh testifying. what do you think is the likelihood of that happening? >> so it's important to note a couple of things. the first thing is, is whenever your client testifies, it doesn't become about what you did as a defense attorney in terms of establishing reasonable doubt in the prosecution's case, it becomes about whether your client is lying or not. it becomes the believability and credibility game. boy, would he have a lot to answer to, that is mr. murdaugh, in the event that he took the
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stand with respect to his inconsistencies in talking to the police about where he was. with respect to the cell phone data that contradicts where he was. with regard to the car data. so he would have a lot to say. the second point, kristen, and that's this. i'd argue that he did testify. there have been a lot of tapes played with respect to interviews done of him. so in that regard he has gotten before that jury, but it's always a risky proposition. it's not to suggest the defense won't take that step, but boy, i would think two, three, four and five times before i left it in alex murdaugh's hands. if he's cross examined and crumbles, there goes your case, there goes the verdict, and that would be guilty. so i think they will think twice and pause before they take such a step. >> well, we should note pretty soon whether or not they decide to take that step or not. joey jackson, thanks so much. coming up next, i'll speak live with the canadian foreign minister, melanie joly. she just returned from a trip to ukraine.
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this is president biden and the nato allies are trying to give ukrainian president zelenskyy what he needs to win the war against russia. ure. so we're hard at work, helping them achieve financial freedom. we're providing g greater acces to investing, with low-cost options to help maximize savings. from the plains to the coasts, we help amerericans invest for their future. and help communities thrive.
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election update. virginia state senator jennifer mcclellan has won the special election for virginia's fourth congressional district. she will become the first black woman to represent the commonwealth in congress. cnn has projected that win tuesday. you see the margin there. mcclellan will defeat republican leon benjamin, a pastor and navy veteran, to succeed donald mcgeechin who died of cancer in november. her election to the u.s. house of representatives a milestone for virginia, a state that was once home to the capital of confederacy and former slave trading center. >> there are moments when i realize that i'm fighting the same fights as my parents, my grandparents and my great grandparents. but you know what keeps me going? i fight those fights so that they don't have to. so that my children and your children don't have to.
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>> mcclellan's victory will add to what is already a record number of women of color in congress and also set a new record for the number of black women, according to data from the center for american women in politics at rutgers university. so certainly a big day for the state of virginia. mcclellan, jennifer mcclellan making history in that special election seat. >> and we are seeing moments like that more and more. each one of them deserves a marking in time. jennifer mcclellan there, the new representative from virginia. president biden is now wrappingleaders of nato allies in effect on the front line of the growing conflict with russia, the eastern flank of the alliance there. he made the surprise trip, of course, to ukraine on monday just days ahead of the one-year
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mark of russia's invasion. that war continues with many thousands of dead on that eastern front in recent weeks. the death toll rising for russian forces, also for ukrainian forces as they intensify. of course, the question now, as always, is how quickly new western weapons will get to the ukrainian side. joining me now to discuss is canadian foreign minister malani jolie. she just returned from a trip to ukraine. foreign minister, thank you for taking the time this morning. >> it's a pleasure, jim. >> we were showing moments of your visit among those a meeting with the mayor of kyiv. there's talk of a russian offensive in the east. u.s. officials are skeptical they have the weapons and manpower to do it and a ukrainian counter offensive. after your visit there are you confident that ukraine has the forces necessary to push back and take back some of this russian-held territory. >> first and foremost, let's be
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clear, russians have started their counter offensive and ukrainians have been clear in their assessment about this. that's the first point. second point. ukrainians' morale is very strong which is extremely important as they're bearing the impacts of this war on their country and at the same time, of course, more and more the heavy weaponry that we, the west, have been sending is getting to ukraine. so of course, we have to increase the speed, jim. we need to make sure that we continue to arm ukraine and that's why on our part in canada our tanks are read ney poland and we are already training ukrainian officials -- officers on this. >> they got the leopard tanks to ukraine. china will take a step it has not taken so far since the start of this war and that is to provide lethal assistance to
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russia in its war against ukraine. if china were to take that step, what do you believe? what does canada believe nato's response should be? >> well, jim, i'm not here to do any form of hypothetical scenarios. we take note of what tony blinken mentioned over the weekend regarding china's position. we call on china to be clear when it comes to respecting the territorial integrity and the sovereignty of ukraine. that is why i'm at the u.n. today and tomorrow to talk about this very issue. there will be a very important general assembly and a vote regarding this issue and we need to make sure that as many countries support the stance that we've been taking regarding the fact that we need to make sure that we send a strong message to the world when it comes to the very principles of integrity and territorial integrity and sovereignty first because it is actually something
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that we all member states have in common, but also we send a strong message to all countries including china on this issue. >> speaking of territorial violation, and the sending of surveillance balloon over u.s. and canadian territory. president biden has said that the three most recent ones were later determined not to be a threat. have the u.s. and canada proved their ability to distinguish between, right? the ones that are actual chinese spy, surveillance balloons and ones that are not. are you better prepared than to respond to them? >> i think it is important to be prepared, but first and foremost for us the safety of canadians
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is important and protecting our territorial integrity and that is why the prime minister, prime minister trudeau decided to shoot down the first balloon over canada, and that is also why i summoned the chinese ambassador in ottawa to make sure to send a clear message. when it comes to different types of objects within our airspace, i think, we are also analyzing what is going on right now, and the different objects that we shot down, but at the same time i think that as technologies are e vochling we need to take stock of these changes and we need to make sure that we address them. so that's why we're doing that through norad and working with our american colleagues on this issue. >> wonder if you believe now that the message to china is true, there's a story in the canadian papers that the
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canadians found chinese buoys in the arctic believed to be a warning system for the u.s. submarines in the arctic. china has many of these surveillance balloons in its arsenal, if they were. what happens if china sends another one over u.s. and canadian territory? >> well, we'll work with norad. we will make sure we will also take a strong stance as we just did two weeks ago. our approach when it comes to china is clear. what we did last november is i have an indo-pacific strategy and we said there when it comes to china we think that it is more and more global disruptive power, and also when it comes to china we will challenge china and we will cooperate with china when we need to. obviously, when it comes to issues over our arctic and with our maritime borders or any form
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of foreign interference, we will be clear and that's how we will address this issue in the future as well. >> does clear mean another surveillance balloon comes and you shoot it down? >> we will take decisions baseded on facts, jim, but we will always make sure that we protect the security of our people. that's obvious, but also that we take strong stances including in the arctic regarding our own sovereignty. >> minister of foreign affairs melanie joly, thank you for joining the broadcast this morning. >> it's a pleasure. >> we'll be back live in warsaw, poland c coming up.
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