i'm kristin fisher. >> i'm jim sciutto, and top of the hour, alex murdaugh right there on trial for murdering his wife and youngest son is expected to take the stand and testify in his own defense. we will take you to the courtroom when it happens. plus any moment, the ntsb is egs expected to release a preliminary report on what led to that toxic train derailment today. and this morning pete buttigieg was there and this after citizens were demanding answers at a town hall overnight. >> i'm 65 and a diabetic, and now, did you shorten my life now? i want to retire and enjoy it. how do we enjoy it? you burned me. we were going to sell our house, and our value went, vroom.

>> jim, i am terribly sorry. what i will do is to get this right. we will get the cleanup right, and we will reimburse the citizens and we will invest in the long term health of this community. >> a chance there for the folks to confront the ceo of norfolk southern. >> and when we get a look at that report from the ntsb, we will get it to you. and now, the secretary of transportation pete buttigieg is going to be there to look at the scene, and is he is going to be meeting with the residents today? >> reporter: that is a big question, because we know that he has toured the crash site here, and in the tour earlier this morning he was shown where are the trench was dig out and where the hazardous materials

seeped into that was burned off and also shown how the water then it has been pumped out. at one point though we could hear him asked about the smell at the site, the acrid smell that is still here. it is remaining to be seen if he is going to be speaking to the residents. we know he is speaking to the reporters here, and as you know, jim and kristin, he is under fire for not coming to east palestine earlier, and so we will see if he does speak to the residents later on, but we heard from the residents last night in no uncertain terms in the cnn town hall, and many of them angry and frustrated over the town hall, and they finally got the opportunity to sit face-to-face with the ceo of the railway company and they did not hold back. >> the oil -- >> ma'am. >> the oil is going to cause us the long-term effects and everybody is talking about the chemicals and while i do think it is important, it is the oil

that is seeping into our ground that you chose not to dig up. >> we have dug up 4600 of cubic yards of soil and collected 1.7 million gallons of water. we will continue with an environmental remediation. and in early march, we will start by tearing and digging up the soil underneath the tracks. >> what they are talking about, 1yi78 and kristin, they decided to bury the soil and then put the tracks on top of it and then get the trains running again, and they want to know what is the decision made to dig up that containment and then test it and cart it out of here.

these are some of the many questions that the residents have here that they still want answers to. jim? >> and jason, the smell that the secretary was asking about, does it smell funny where you are? >> yes. in fact, we were out here earlier and when we were given a brief tour of what we were looking at, and the smell was still here. it comes and goes, and sometimes if you are downwind and depending how close you are to the site, and that acrid smell from last week that i remember is still here the closer you are to the site. so, you can imagine how it is for the residents when the wind is kick up and where they are in east palestine they can still smell it which increases their worry. >> thank you, jason carroll. and the epa has laid out a four-part accountability plan for norfolk southern. it is a detailed cleanup plan for water, soil and train

debris. they will have to reimburse the cleaning up of ohomes and businesses. so they will have to show up at the epa's request to speak to residents, and if they don't comply, the agency can charge them three times the amount that the cleanup would cost. the epa administrator spoke about the plan at the town hall. >> i don't have any questions for the ceo of norfolk southern, but i have some orders for the company. and the orders are that the company is going to compel them to take full responsibility on the trauma they have inflicted on this community and the damage they have caused. >> are you going to follow that order, sir? >> jake, yes. the administrator regan and i are aligned on this.

>> norfolk southern has pledged $6.5 million to the people impacted by the train derailment, but we are digging into the numbers and they are going to pale into comparison to what the shareholders of the company receive, right, harry? >> yes, we mentioned the $6.5 million in compensation, but keep in mind that is not just one person, because there are over 2,000 housing units in east palestine, and so we are talking about a small amount for each of the families that are in east palestine and affected by this disaster. when you are comparing that to how much money the stockholders are getting, and look at this 4.6 billion in stock buybacks and dividends in 2022, and look at the compensation for the employees which is 2.6 billion, and keep in mind there are 19,000 employees at norfolk southern, so we are talking about north of $100,000 for the average employee salary, and

talking about the profits of for folk s -- norfolk southern pulls in, it is at this point around $40 billion and so it is just paling in comparison to how much they are taking in with 4.45 billion in 2021 to 4.8 billion in 2022. >> and we just got this report in from the ntsb and what have we learned so far, pete? >> well, it is four pages long on this derailment on february 3rd, and what is interesting here is that the ntsb is digging into the temperature of the wheel bearings on board this very long train. about 150 car or more, and they said it was going 47 miles per

hour, but over the course of several miles, the temperature in one of these wheel bearings which has been the center of the investigation went up, up, up, and ultimately leading to the audible alarm inside of one of the locomotives that the ntsb says came to a stop, and that the wheel bearings were above a temperature of about 250 degrees above the ambiant temperature, and very, very hot temperatures here, and we know that fire of the train and the leak of vinyl chloride was so critical in this incident and that is what the transportation secretary is looking at today on the ground. the ntsb does say that they could issue some urgent safety recommendations here, but in the preliminary report here, and we not seeing it yet, but the issue is that the ntsb has no power to regulate, and that on the department of transportation, and listen to secretary of transportation pete buttigieg

who says that we don't need a ntsb report to say that other class i railroads are trying to slink out of regulations to make it easier for them to transport chemicals through communities. this is what the transportation secretary told me tuesday. >> we don't have to wait a year for a finalized ntsb report to know that there are things that would be stronger if the railroad industry would not have fought them. i know that the communities are frustrated and i am frustrated and it is time to work with congress and call on the industry to change course. >> talk about the time line here, because february 3rd is when it happen and today, february 23rd, the preliminary report and facts and straight and to the point, and now begins the ntsb analysis of looking at the facts and trying to figure out what went wrong here, but it could be months if not more than a year until we find out the probable cause here.

that is what the ntsb will find, and really assess some blame to figure out what the mechanical failure was and who is to blame for that. there are big questions here and were things properly inspected? was the train properly operated? we know that the weather was clear and nighttime, but the ntsb is not going to leave any stone unturned as they look at this. jim and kristin. >> thank you, pete. and we are joined by the former chairman of the ntsb, jim hall, and we know it is preliminary and jim, big question is if this is a railroad company failure here or a regulation failure? i am looking at the report, and it is saying that the train is traveling below the authorized speed which is 50 miles an hour, and it was going 47 miles per hour, and does there need to be a tightening of the restrictions here?

you have to understand that the railroads own the tracks that the trains run on. people are familiar with the federal, state and local governments responsibility for highways and roads and the faa is responsible for the airspace, but going back over 100 years ago, the railroads carved very favorable positions for themselves, and they own their own lines. there are thousands of lines that carry these hazardous materials across the country. the federal government essentially along with congress has failed the oversight of these companies and being sure that the regulations are being followed. you know, i have followed transportation industry for over three decades, and what we see with this horrible derailment is the same situation that we saw with the boeing max.

it appears that the company moves towns and moves headquarters and changes and sells stock for their benefit and the federal government does not pay attention until something like this happens. and now for norfolk southern to tell the people in east palestine that they will be taken care of, but what about the other cities that there are these trains with hazardous materials. >> jim, have you had a chance to look at the report that is released, because i am curious what jumps out at you? >> no. of course, while i was at the ntsb i oversaw these reports. this is what i call the jack webb version. it is the factual report. that is essentially what is

going to be, and what you have to look for is urgent recommendations that follow on this, and this is where the board will have found that the investigators will have found as a result of the initial investigation that there are matters that need to be tended to right away. >> fascinating point, because i was not aware that the railway companies own their own track and have oversight. one thing that pete muntean spotted in the report is that the bearings at one point in the peak 253 degrees fahrenheit above ambiant outside temperature here, and that is remarkable. in investigating crashes and accidents like this, have you seen a condition like that? that is quite a temperature when you are carrying hazardous materials. >> well, without giving any detail, because we have done a number of reports, but, you know, the responsibility of the railroad company is to keep the train on the tracks.

and the thing that does that is primarily the wheels and the brakes. i think that we are all familiar with the fact that the industry opposed the electronic brakes proposed for this type of train, and the board is going to look into this, and i have full confidence in their ability to investigate it, but what i don't have is the confidence of the federal government to regulate and congress to regulate the railroads. >> jim, one more question for you in addition to being a former ntsb chairman, you are a vietnam veteran and you are aware of agent orange, and you know about the burn pits, and from that perspective, what do you think of the residents of east palestine getting their hands on this report and what they are seeing, and what they are thinking, and are they right

to raise all of these concerns? >> i think they are totally right. i look at it this way, as a vietnam veteran, i saw the government not candid on the agent orange, and the same thing on the burn pits, and the one thing that the government should be is transparent with the people who pay their salaries. in this situation, i think that the citizens of east palestine should stand up and do exactly what they are doing. i am very proud of them. i think that there was some decisions made without their input that may affect their community for decades. >> yeah. >> all right. >> well, jim 4hall, thank you fr that perspective just as this report is released. >> fascinating to get the perspective of someone who has investigate sod many of these. up next, alex murdaugh is going to testify in his own defense and we will bring that to you when it begins.

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all it takes is eight minutes to get started. then work with professionals to assist your business with its forms and submit the application. go to getrefunds.com to learn more. this morning, the officials in ukraine putting extra security measures in place that they fear russia is going to amp up attacks to mark the one-year anniversary tomorrow. joining us to speak about the state of the war, retired u.s. air force general who is a nato supreme allied commander and also leader of the allied supreme institute. good to have you, sir. >> good to be back.

>> and now, looking at the formal invasion of the east, and there is hopes that vladimir putin would see the writing on the wall here, and maybe pursue peace, and some hope and a lot of hope, but clearly not with his comments recently, and the reinforcements there, and do you see any end in sight of the war? >> well, not right now, and clearly mr. putin has his back up against the wall. he can't come out of this war with less land than he entered. while the fight is not existential to russia, it may be existential to him. on the other side, president zelenskyy is enjoying strong, and incredibly strong and growing support among his people to take back all of ukrainian land. so right now, we are truly at a loggerhead. >> general, so much concern and fear that president putin is going to be using tomorrow, this

one-year anniversary, to launch some new offensive and do something big and symbolic in ukraine, and do you think that is going to happen? >> well, most will tell you, i believe now that this offensive has already begun and it is not going to way that mr. putin would want it to go, and so i think that the offensive is already on, but will he try something flashy? that is not beyond him. the russians are keen to sort of celebrate anniversaries. and so, i think that ukraine is standing ready if it happens. >> does russia have the capability to bleed ukraine to the war of attrition, and does ukraine have the capability to stand up to that? >> well, mr. putin intends to give us the message that he will stay, and i will use your words and not my words, bleed ukraine,

because he has the autocratic or as i say the kleptocratic power of the west to tire and weaken. so i think that is his every intention. ukraine if we give them what they need, they'd beat russia every time on the battlefield. two strategic defeats on the north and on an operational level in the south. sot ukraine stands ready as long as the west will give them what they need. >> well, general philip bree breedlove, thank you for joining us, and it is a conversation that we will keep up. >> thank you, general. cnn is also getting a firsthand look inside of that battered town inside of ukraine. we have this report that was filed for us.

>> reporter: this fight for a town right now is one of the most important and difficult in the country, and while the fight for bakhmut is strategic, this town is unique because it is sitting at the intersection of two active fronts, the southern and the eastern front. that is why russia wants to push through here to launch the offense into donbas and they are struggling right now, because they have lost a huge amount of men and trying to cross fields and minefields where the ukrainians have been able to inflict a huge amount of damage on the troops. at the same time, the russians are absolutely pummeling this town. you can see that all around me, these are soviet era apartment

blocks that are largely empty, and the residents have fled and in almost every single one destroyed in varying degrees. all of the windows have been blown out. craters here in the ground where children used to play. ukrainians have the benefit of the higher ground here, and these buildings to use in the fighting, but as with so many of the battles here in eastern ukraine, it is a fight of attrition. who can hold out the longest. the ukrainian side saying they need more ammunition to be able to keep the russians at bay and keep them from advancing. alex marquardt in vuhledar, ukraine. tune into cnn tonight where fareed zakaria is hosting a townhall, the invasion of ukraine, one year later at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. of course, all morning long we have been watching the alex

murdaugh murder trial, and the judge is calling a brief recess, and we expect alex murdaugh to take the stand, and we will take you there live in minutes when he takes the stand.

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the lead attorney confirms that they did not need to consult before his testimony. let's bring in cnn's randi kaye and attorney areva martin. randi, you are outside of the courthouse, and what are you hearing and how is this going to play out, and how long before he takes the stand? >> just a few more minutes before he takes the stand and he needed a quick break before he does, so and not sure how long he is going to be up there, but he has promised to tell the truth, and nothing but the truth, but the key moment that the jury is going to be listening for, and the rest of us is how does he explain that voice of his that at least now at least ten witnesses have said is his video taken around the time of the murders on the night of the murders at 8:44 p.m. alex murdaugh has told investigators and others that he was not at the kennel area where the murders took place that night, and that is the big question for the jury and how does he explain that he was not there when at least ten people

said he was. >> areva martin, the defense attorney said that he did not need to consult with his client prior to the testimony. is that unusual? >> it is unusual, but again, you have to keep in mind that this is a very experienced attorney, and alex, himself, he has been a criminal defense attorney, and we know that his family, many of his relatives are also attorneys, so i think that he is feeling, look, this is not my first rodeo, and i know how this is going to go, and he has had a long time to think about this. and another thing, jim, he has to explain is that his sister-in-law took the stand and they said that they were worried that whoever killed the sister and nephew might be coming back after family members, and alex was not wor ried at all, and so there is some concern about the affect of him following murder of his wife and son. >> and this is the second witness of the day, and we have

heard one witness before alex took the stand, and who was that witness? >> that is nolan tooten and he is a very good friend of paul murdaugh's, and he is the 10th witness to identify alex murdaugh's voice on that video at the kennel, and he laid the framework of what a good father he was and even paul and buster's friends called him big red. they had a relationship with their children's friends according to a lot of the witnesses. they were really like family, but just picking up a little bit more on what they can expect from their testimony today and not only will they have to a answer to e kennel video that we have been wondering about and the jury is likely to be wondering about and where are the clothes that he was wearing on the earlier that day that he was wearing on the day of the murders and that he showered and

where is that clothing, and how long was he at his mother's house, and he said that he was gone at the property and left for 9:06, and was there for about an hour, and she has alzheimer's, but the care giver said about 15 to 20 minutes. so there are a lot of questions that we expect he will be pressed on from the stand. >> areva martin, you been involved in a number of cases, so have you seen a defendant who is also a criminal defense attorney testify in his own murder trial in his own defense? >> this is unusual, jim. it is unusual for defendants to testify in any case regardless of their profession and definitely in a case of this magnitude, but alex murdaugh and his family is beloved in this community. and he is beloved because of his prestige and my thinking is that alex is counting on that, and he

is counting on the reputation of the family and counting on the stature that his family has in this community to carry the day, and have the jurors to relate to him, and speak to those jurors in a way that they find credible. so i think that he is betting on his personality and the oversized personality or reputation of his family to be helpful to him as he gives the testimony. >> cnn's jean ceasar has been following the trial closely, and what are you going to be following? did you think that this moment would be happening as you cover this? >> normally as you say, a defendant does not testify, but you can see his desire, and you can see it in court, and normally in a case like this, the forensics, and we are talking about the blood and the fingerprints and the dna and they are so important because they can leave beyond a reasonable crime that someone

commited a crime, but this case is weak, and what it is strong in is the iphone data and we are talking about the steps of when somebody is holding a phone and how the landscape can change, and it is strong, but the jury cannot take notes to all of this analytical data and now they are going to be hearing a story that he is going to have to bear his soul through this whole trial, it is determined that he lied, time and time again, and he is going to have to explain that, and the jury is going to have to accept that this liar is now telling truth once and for all, and he is bearing that soul. the direct examination will be a story. the cross-examination is going to be tense, and they will try to poke holes in all of the lies to show that he is untruthful to try to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. >> well, there he is, alex murdaugh sitting there flanked by his lawyers and this a live picture from inside of the

courtroom, and any moment now, he is going to take the stand. areva martin, i wonder, as jean was making the point, the defense presenting a story, and the prosecution presenting a story here, and the defense of course as we say, they have to just establish some sort of reasonable doubt, and they don't have to convince the jury of their own story, but how important for them and murdaugh in his own story to say, this is what really happened? >> i think it is very important, and the jurors want to know what happened and right now they don't know as jean said. they have been given a lot of analytical data, but it is not compelling testimony that the jurors remember. they go back to the deliberation room, and often times they have forgotten what the experts have testified to, and all of the technical evidence, but if he can tell a compelling story, anded what -- and they can remember that when you are under stress and your wife and son are

murder and you can say things that are not consistent, and if he can give a reason of what is inconsistent then they may like him. and that is important that likability and they are not looking to who is telling truth but who they like. and you cannot underestimate that subjective factor, because if they like alex and if he is expressing pain and suffering related to the wife and son, that can carry a great deal of weight in terms of how they evaluate the testimony. >> and the jury has now entered courtroom, as they await his testimony, and now joining us is misty marris, and clearly, the defense, and murdaugh's defense attorney beliefs it is a good move for them, but how are you feeling if you are the prosecution, and this opportunity to cross-examine him? >> the cross-examination, and there is a lot of fodder, because he has been caught in a

lot of lies especially with respect to the video, the snap chat video which is the best piece of the prosecution evidence, and how is he going to explain that, but notably in the pretrial arguments relating to the scope of cross-examination, dick harpoolian advised the client not to testify, because he said the financial crimes will be there to bring up, and so even the legal team may have had some hesitation, but i agree with areva, that the jury wants to hear a story, and that is what we will hear today. >> remarkable. randi kaye is outside of the

courtroom, and what will we hear? >> well, as areva said, does the jury like him or not like him, but the state has presented these alleged financial crimes as motives and that i had a number of witnesses about this, and so that is going to play into whether the jury likes him, because he is accused of ripping off fellow lawyers and the government of nearly $9 million. so this is a big deal as to whether or not the jury will take that into consideration as they decide if they like or don't like or if they believe or don't believe alex murdaugh. they know that he lied to his clients and ripped them off at least $4 million to one family that he has admitted to. and then there are other alleged crimes. and this is going to certainly play into how they think and decide his guilt or innocence. >> and areva, certainly, the defense team tried to limit the scope of the cross-examination to just the murder charges and none of the financial crimes that randi kaye was talking

about, but the judge denied that. he said that, basically, anything is fair game. so what are the biggest pitfalls for alex murdaugh as he is sitting there right now waiting to take the stand in his own murder trial? >> well, we know that the cross-examination, and they are going to be incredibly, i think aggressive in going after him with respect to the financial crimes, and he has to worry about incriminating himself, because even after this trial is over, and no matter what happens in the trial, he is going to be facing the prosecution and the trial as it relates to the financial issue, and so is he is going to be taking the fifth amendment with respect to the fifth amendment, because as the judge said, he will not give a blanket prohibition to the prosecution as it relates to asking the questions about those financial issue, and so that could become a dicey matter on the witness stand if he is asked questions that he and as a lawyer, he would know, and his

defense team will definitely know if he is putting himself in legal jeopardy as it relates to the other cases that are pending. i think that the jurors, and i know that for me, when i first heard the evidence in this case. it is a big leap from i have a lot of financial issues that i could be facing criminal prosecution to financial issues from there to blowing the brains out of my son. as a parent, i think that a lot of the jurors are thinking, yeah, even if you are in trouble, would you do something so extreme as to kill your wife and shoot her what appears to be execution style and then to literally shoot your son in a way that we have heard this graphic description of his brains being blown out of his head. i think that a lot of jurors are still probably wrestling with that even though these financial issues are significant. >> goodness, the circumstances are shocking, appalling to please stand by, areva martin,

misty marris, and we will take a quick break and as soon as alex murdaugh is called to the stand. we got the house! you did! pods handles the driving. pack at your pace. store your things until you're ready. then we deliver to your new home - across town or across the country. pods, your personal moving and storage team.

>> live to the courtroom in walt walterboro, south carolina, where alex murdaugh is taking the courtroom and you can see them there raising his hand swearing the oath to tell the truth, and now he is going to sit down to take questions from the prosecution and the defense. we will listen in. >> i'm alex murdaugh, m-u-r-d-a-u-g-h. good morning.

>> mr. murdaugh, on june 7th, 2021, did you take this gun or any gun like it and shoot your son paul in the chest in the feed room in your property off of moselle room? >> no, did not. >> did you take this gun or any gun like it and blow your son's brains out on june 7th or any time? >> no, i did not. >> mr. murdaugh, did you take 300 blackout such as this and fire it into your wife maggie's leg, torso, or any part of her body? >> no, i did not. >> did you shoot a 300 blackout into her head causing her death? >> sir, did not shoot my wife or

my son any time, ever. >> mr. murdaugh, is that you on the kennel video on june 7th, 2021? >> it is. >> were you in fact at the kennel the night that paul and maggie were murdered? >> i was. >> did you lie to agent roy rutland on the night of june 7th and told them that you stayed at the house after dinner. >> i did lie to them. >> did you lie to agent owen and agent kroft on june 10th, that the last time that you saw maggie and paul was at dinner? >> i did lie to them.

>> and the the interview of august 11th, did you tell agent owen and agent kroft, did you lie to them by telling them that you were not down at the kennels on that night? >> yes. >> alex, why did you lie to agent owen, agent kroft and deputy rutland about the last time that you saw maggie and paul? >> as my addiction evolved over time, i would get in these situations and circumstances where i would get paranoid thinking, and it could be anything that triggered it. maybe a look that somebody gave me or a reaction that something i did, and it might be a policeman following me in a car. that night, june 7th, after find finding mags and paul, don't

talk to anybody without danny with you. i had a sheriff taking gunshot tests from my hands. i am sitting in a police car with david owen asking me about my relationship with my wife and my son. and all of those things coupled together after finding them coupled with my distrust for sled caused me to have paranoid thoughts. normally when these paranoid thoughts would hit me, i could take a deep breath real quick and think about it, and reason my way through it, and just get past it quickly.

on june 7th, i wasn't thinking clearly. i don't think that i was capable of reason. and i lied about being down there. and i'm so sorry that i did. i'm sorry to my son buster. i'm sorry to grandma and papa t. i'm sorry to both of our families. most of all, i am sorry to mags

and paul paul. i would never intentionally do anything to intentionally hurt either one of them. ever. ever. >> did you continue lying after that night, did you not? >> once i lied, i continued to lie, yes, sir. >> why? >> you know, what a tangled web we weave, but once i told a lie, and i told my family, i had to keep lying. alex, tell the jur

happened on the evening of june 7th, starting when you met one paul. >> i had been at work that day. a fairly normal day. do you want me to start in the morning? >> sure. start in the morning. >> it was a regular morning and maggie was leaving to go out of town. she was going to a doctor's appointment, and she had some stuff to do at edista, and she was having some stuff done on the house there. and maggie was getting ready to

leave and she told me that she was going to do these things, and always, always asked maggie to come back home to stay with me. but, anyway, maggie had left and she did her thing. i went to work. did work. i learned from papa -- >> who is papa? >> paul, my son murdered. >> and your name for him was papa? >> yeah, i mean, we called him papa. >> okay. go ahead. i am sorry. >> i mean, buster and maggie and i called him papa or paul terry. but mags called him papa. buster called him papa. a lot of people called him papa. but anyway. i learned about the -- i had known that c.b., that guy that worked for us had sprayed the

s sunflowers, and i knew about that, but i had been out of town. i didn't know they were dead. but paul let me know that they had died and so we had to replant the dove field. and the dove field is a big social part of having property. and people would come and it is a big social part of it. and the dove field is a big deal. so when the sunflowers were dead, i knew that paul was coming home, and i learned that early monday morning. >> and we will catch back up, but at some point in time, did you meet up with paul? >> yeah, after work, i met papa at the property. >> and so we are going back to the field to talk more of the day, but i want to focus in on the evening right now. >> okay. >> when papa gets to the property, what do you do? >> the first thing that we do is

we go to the dove field and look at it. >> how did you get to the dove field? >> he had come in my brother's truck. we got in my son buster's black pickup truck, and we called it buster's truck or the black pickup truck, too, but i call it buster's truck. >> okay. so you are in buster's truck, and you go to the dove field, and tell the jury what? >> well, that is the first thing that we do is to go look at the dove field, 7band it is clearly and you could tell they had the been sprayed and they were dead. i mean, they might have still had a little bit of life, but they were dead, and we knew that. so we knew that we had to replant the whole field. so that didn't take but a second. but after that, papa, we just

rode the property, and we spent time together. we rode around, and we spent time together on the property. >> did you go to duck pond? >> oh, yeah. we went to several food plots. we went to single oakstand we called it which is across the road. we went to the bridge stand. we went to the duck pond where we stayed for a minute. and i can remember the duck pond specifically, because i had helped papa plant the dove field and the ghcorn in the dove fiel and sunflowers and the corn,

sunflowers and corn. i had planted the field and papa had planted the corn and he made a comment about how much better it was doing than the duck pond. so we stayed there for a little while and we went to the cabin and we rode around looking at the. >> the cabin is what? >> that's, and it is just a little small, and it is truly a cabin. it is a four-room structure. it has a little living area, and a little kitchen and two little bedrooms and bathroom, and that is what you have heard about some of the kids stayed in the summers. >> has the jury seen some overhead pictures of moselle road? >> yes. it is very close to moselle road and close to the driveway of the shop and the kennels.

>> did you spend any time at the shop? >> oh, yes. the shop was, and i mean, that was sort of the hub. that was the main place. if you weren't at the house, you might be out going to this field or this food plot or this duck pond or this part of the river, but the shop is where the kennels were located, and you know, that is where you were always there. something was always going on there, and you were always doing something there. that is where all of the tools were, and this is where all of the equipment was kept. that is the main hub. >> right. >> so we were there that day. i mean, it was a point in time that we unloaded a bulldozer that had been on a different part of the property, and it was on the trailer and we unloaded it and sprayed it down, and that is one of the many things that we did that day. >> one of the many things that the jury has seen that day is a

snap chat of you doing something with a tree. do you remember that? >> oh, yeah. >> what was happening there? >> that is just part of when we were riding that particular location where that was, that was at a food plot that we called sawtooth oaks, and it was named that because there are sawtooth oaks that you can't see there in the picture, but what that tree is, at the food plots, there is an area where it is not as big as the field, but it is like a field where you plant vegetation for wildlife. it might be cow peas or soybeans and you plant and then you have a feeder to attract deer. and then we planted fruit trees on the stands and what you are seeing me doing is fooling with a fruit tree that i had been tending to. it had fallen over, and i had straps on it and strings to hold it up, and one of the strings

popped and i undid the other tree and it was falling over and papa was laughing at me trying to get it back upright, and it was a fruit tree that i had been dealing with really for years, and it would not stand up straight. >> were you and paul having a good time at that point? >> you could not be around papa, you could not be around him and not have a good time. >> were you close to paul? >> you could not be any closer than papa and i and buster and i.