charges against paul, i was so -- i kept everything very close in the civil case. it was danny and his office that was doing it. i had that document prepared, handwritten in the neatest handwriting i could make because a secretary other than mine or a parallel other than mine was going to put that information into the final document. that's the document mark ball talked about he found on my desk. that's what was going to be, if necessary, used thursday. >> jury's heard about testimony of you stealing client funds. did you do that? >> i did.

>> did you steal divert the fee away from the law firm? >> i did. >> how did you get in such a financial predicament that led you to steal money that wasn't yours? >> you know, i'm not quite sure how i let myself get where i got, but it came from -- you know, i battled addiction for so many years. i was spending so much money on pills. i got in a spot i couldn't -- >> what type of addiction are you referring to? >> my addiction is to opiate pain killers, specifically

oxycodone, oxycontin. >> when did you first become dependent or addicted opiods? >> oxycodone or opiods in general? >> opiods in general. >> i'm not sure of the exact date. i can give you a timeframe. i hurt my knee really bad playing football in college. i had a knee surgery. the medical science at the time was such that the surgery didn't work, bottom line. it just didn't last. within a couple years of that i started having a lot of knee troubles. ultimately i had to have a couple of surgeries, but the last surgery i had was around 2002 or 2004. i think it was around '04.

so i would have started taking hydrocodone a few years before that. i got addicted to that very quickly. i continued taking that for a long time. i would force myself off it, wean myself off it. i would go back to it. i battled that for a long time. after a while i was taking so much of that i moved on to oxycodone. i'm guessing that was around -- the transition was around 2008, 2009, something like that. of course, you know, it just -- it just escalates. it escalates. it escalate. >> did you receive treatment or go to detox on indication?

>> i did. >> how many times? >> that i went to detox or i detoxed? >> let's start with going to a detox facility. >> i've been to a detox facility three times. >> when was the first time? >> december of 2017. >> before december of 2017, had you tried to detox at home? >> i tried to detox everywhere i could. maggie would help me. go ahead. >> when you -- when you went in was it an in-patient facility? >> the detoxes, the formal detoxes? >> in december of 2017? >> yes, it was in-patient.

all three formal detoxes have been at the same facility called sunrise detox in atlanta, georgia. very good facility. >> the jury's heard an audio tape of a telephone conference with agents. is that where you were during that meeting? >> that's correct. >> the first time you went to the detox in atlanta, how long of a stay is that, did you stay? >> seven days is the opiate detox program. >> is there a difference between detox and rehab? >> yes. >> what's the difference? >> detox is the -- it's the act of getting the drugs out of your system, getting to the point where, okay, there is no longer a physical dependency. that's a big difference than the

rest of the dependency. the physical dependency is supposed to be gone after seven days. in other words, the -- i mean there are so many things. opiate withdraw is -- i mean, it's -- it's hard. supposedly at the end of seven days you don't have the physical symptoms like -- i don't want to be too graphic. you're sick. you throw up. you have terrible diarrhea. you sweat like you're running a marathon. you can't hold your legs still. you can't lay down. what i'm talking about the legs moving, that goes away after about 24 hours. after about 24 hours, you can lay down again and maybe sleep

some. you sweat. you throw up. i mean, there's so many issues, but after seven days those are supposed to be over. that's what detox is, the detoxification of your body. >> what's rehab? >> rehab is the period that you go to learn how to stay off. you know, you're supposedly off after detox. rehab is where you get help staying off. >> before september 2021 had you gone through the second stage of rehab? >> no. >> in june -- in december of 2017 how long did it take you to relapse once you got home from detox? >> not long at all. i mean, you're still going through -- the physical dependency is gone, but you're still so sick. i mean, you just -- >> is that something you've been battling for quite sometime?

>> as long as i can remember. >> how long have you been drug free, opoid free? >> 535 days. i'm very proud of that. >> i want to ask you questions about labor day weekend 2021. >> okay. >> do you remember being confronted by your law firm? >> sure, i do. >> what were you confronted about? >> stealing money. >> and did you admit your misconduct to your law partners? >> well, to one of my law partners and my brother, danny and randy. yeah, i mean -- >> did you -- >> -- i admitted it. >> they learned about a faked

forge account. you admitted to the faked forge account? >> yes, i did. >> did you tell them about your opoid struggles, opoid addiction? >> i told them about my addiction, yes, sir. >> to your knowledge, were any of your law partners aware of your addiction? >> not just to my knowledge. i'm certain they were not aware of my addiction. >> how would you characterize your opoid use or addiction -- severe, moderate? >> then or now? >> in 2020, 2021. >> i don't know how i would characterize it then. after going to rehab and learning more things that i've learned, really talking to addicts about experiences, i mean, i will tell you my addiction was extremely,

extremely bad. >> how were you able to function or were you able to function? >> yes, i was able to function. >> you were able to practice law? >> yes. >> were you successful practicing law while you were addicted to opiods? >> on some level, yes, sir, i was successful. i mean, i -- >> after you were confronted on labor day weekend 2021, did you resign or were you forced to resign from the law firm? >> absolutely. >> and then on saturday, september 4th do you remember what happened that day? >> saturday, september 4th, yes, sir, i remember. >> what happened?

>> start when i woke up? >> start after you met with chris wilson. did you meet with chris wilson? >> i met with chris wilson at my mom and dad's house in almeda. >> did you lay it out for chris wilson your opoid addiction and your misconduct? >> i definitely laid out my addiction. i definitely gave him some details about moneys that i had taken. i didn't give him -- we didn't go into all the details about all of it, but i certainly was very candid with him about the things that involved him. >> had you already contacted the detox facility before you met with chris wilson on the 4th? >> i believe that we had

already -- at that point i believe that we had already -- already spoken to the guy that i knew from sunrise and made arrangements for me to go there on monday. >> okay. and -- >> i know we had arrangements for me to go there on monday. i'm sure we had to have had it by then because i went to the hospital shortly after that. so yes. >> did you reach out to blanca to get your insurance information? >> i did. >> for what purpose? >> i was going to use my insurance at did he etox and re help pay for it. >> okay. and what would -- what was your immediate plans after -- for the day after you met with chris

wilson? did you have plans to do anything, have any other meetings on that saturday? >> i wanted to go and meet with corey flemming who was another lawyer who was affected by the things i did. >> okay. did you? >> and a good friend. >> did you go meet with corey flemming? >> no. >> what did you do instead? >> i had given my -- when i gave my pill toss my brother randy and danny -- i think i gave them to randy. i had taken -- i took a lot of pills because i knew i wasn't going to be taking anymore. so randy had my pills. i had to get some from him the night before, but i only got a small amount. i could tell -- you know, i wasn't taking anything near like

what i had been taking. i knew it was coming. i called someone to bring me more pills and -- i believe before i met with chris wilson. >> did you meet this -- did the person you called bring you more pills? >> you know, i don't know if he brought me more pills or not because by the time i met with him after meeting with chris and after, you know, the starting of the withdrawals, i changed my plan. >> and what -- what was the change in plans? >> not to get pills from him anymore and instead i asked him to shoot me. >> did you ask him to shoot you

as a sympathy ploy or did you -- >> as a sympathy ploy? >> yes. why did you ask him to shoot you? what was your end goal that you wanted to accomplish? >> i meant for him to shoot me so i would be gone. >> who is this? who did you ask to do this? >> andy smith. >> did he, in fact, shoot you? >> he did. >> where was that located, not your gunshot, but where were you shot in hampton or where were you? >> it's hampton county. it's right on the road that runs along the sawkahachee river. >> why did you want to be gone?

>> i mean, i knew all this was coming to a head. i knew how humiliating it was going to be for my son. i mean, i had been through so much. at the time in the bad place that i was it seemed like the better thing to do. i don't think that way now thankfully, but i did at the time. >> did you have life insurance on you? >> oh, yeah, i had a lot of life insurance. >> who was the beneficiary? >> maggie was the beneficiary. >> how much life insurance did you have? >> i had $12 million. i had a $4 million policy and an $8 million policy for a total of 12.

>> did you ever have any life insurance on maggie? >> no, never. >> did you ever have any life insurance on paul? >> no. >> alex, tell this jury about maggie and your relationship with her . >> you all saw a picture. she was just as beautiful inside

as she was outside and, i mean, she was so adventurous. i mean, she -- you couldn't tell her something was good or bad. she wanted to find out for herself. she wanted to do it, see it, experience it on her own, inform her own opinion. she was devoted to those two boys, buster, paul, me. i mean, she made sure we didn't want for anything ever.

fun, playful. i mean, she had a laugh that -- you know, you didn't even have to know what was funny if you heard her laugh. you would laugh. she had this playful look where she would smile at you and bite her lip. i can't do it. she would just do it and it would just melt you. you know, she was such a lady, such a feminine person, a girl, but then she had two boys. i mean, she didn't grow up in

the swamp and in the country riding four-wheelers and hunting and fishing. i mean, she -- she changed everything. she -- she -- i mean, she became a boys' mom. her life became ball and riding four-wheelers and -- i mean, doing those things. now, don't get me wrong. she was still 100% girl and you she loved to do those things with her nieces, but, i mean, she threw herself into her boys' life. i mean, you know, she never took not working for granted. i mean, she -- she might not have worked, but i promise you she worked and she worked to make sure me and paul and buster

had everything. you know, she wanted a big family. pregnancy just didn't suit her. her pregnancies were so hard. i would leave her in the mornings and she would be sick. i would come home and check on her and she would be sick. i would come back at the end of the day and she would be sick. she was so sick all the time with both those boys. when we had paw paw, maggie got in trouble and paw paw got in trouble. just pregnancy didn't suit her. so we decided that, you know, we would just have the two boys. you know, i just think how hard

it was on her. it just made her love those boys so much more, and she did. she was the kind of person -- maggie, you know, she could put on the most elegant ball gown and go to the governor's mansion and hang out with, you know, the most affluent people, whatever, or she could come down to -- you know, she could go to a food bank in hampton or walterboro and fit in with everybody at both places. everybody would say, when she left, that maggie, she's a good one.

she's just a special person, very special person. >> would you ever do anything to harm maggie? >> i would never hurt maggie, ever. >> will you tell the jury about paul, please, and your relationship with him. >> paw paw, i mean, paw paw was just the brightest. he was the most inquisitive young man. he wanted to be a part of everything. if you were working -- i can remember as a little boy, you would be working on something, didn't matter what it was, his little head was going to come in there. his nose was in there to see what you were doing.

he was a man's man. so he was 100% country boy. he was tough. i mean, he could hunt anything. he could catch any fish. he could run any piece of equipment. he could use any tool. i mean, he could do anything. at 22 years old he could do so many things. i mean, he took care of so many -- he was so tough, but on the other hand he had a side to him that was just so sweet. i mean, he wouldn't come home, he wouldn't go -- he would go out of his way to check on his

grandparents. to be such a tough person, he would get all his buddies and get on a boat and watch a sunset. i mean, how many 22-year-old people you know do stuff like that? i mean, he was such a special boy. he cared about people. he was fiercely, fiercely loyal. he was so misrepresented in the media. i mean, you never, never seen an accurate story told about what he was. i will challenge you right now -- i would challenge everybody in this room to go find somebody, somebody that knew paw paw, really knew him, that did not have an ulterior motive, that would say something negative about him.

i challenge everybody who can hear me now to do that. paul was that kind of person, if you knew him. he would help you. he would be glad to help you. you know, i thought mark ball made a good point when he said, you know, paw paw might not have quite found his place yet -- paul was add, adhd and he would jump around from thing to thing a lots. there's absolutely no question in my mind whatsoever that paw paw would have found whatever that thing was that he was going to do. whatever that ended up being, he was going to be one of the best at it, that you've ever known. i tell you one more thing. i didn't even know this when paul was alive.

excuse me. excuse me. when -- when -- when they were doing his eulogy, i gave the names of some of his friends and he had a real cute friend, they were just friends, cute little girl maggie adored. i didn't know her very well, but maggie did. maggie adored her. they talked to her and paw paw -- we learned this from her, julie ann. at 22 years old, we learned that paw paw would tell his friends

be present. appreciate where you are, the things you have and the people around you. i think a lot of that came f from -- it hurt paul so bad when mallory died. how many 22 year olds do you know feel that way? be present. appreciate things around you. at 22 years old. he was the most special boy. >> did you love paul? >> did i love him? like no other. he and buster. >> you moved maggie? >> more than anything. loved maggie from the first time we went out. >> did you kill maggie? >> no, i did not kill maggie. i did not kill paul. i would never hurt maggie and i would never hurt paul, ever, under any circumstances.

>> thank you. please answer any questions the state may have. >> yes, sir. >> ladies and gentlemen, we'll take a -- >> excuse me, judge. >> we'll take a ten-minute recess. please do not discuss the case. >> more bombshell testimony, about 45 minutes of testimony from alex murdaugh testifying in a walterboro, south carolina, courtroom. let's bring in jean casarez. jean, bombshell in the fact that he's admitted to stealing money from his firm. >> reporter: this was huge. he's charged with many financial crimes and it could lend him to decades in prison.

he's not entered a plea in a criminal court for this. when he was asked did you commit financial crimes, stealing from your firm, the answer was, yes, i did. it was plain. it was simple, but it was yes, i did. did you notice his demeanor during the testimony regarding the financial crimes, the stealing of funds meant for victims? he was a civil attorney in a firm that was his father's firm, grandfather's firm. got huge civil verdicts for people who had been wronged, and he took some of those, many of those, amounts of money which were huge amounts and funneled them into his own accounts and the firm had no idea he was doing that. he was doing that because he needed money. he needed money because of the testimony we heard all the drugs he was taking, all the opiods he was taking. it was pivotal testimony. the demeanor was not emotional when he talked about the

financial crimes. very important for the defense. the motive of the prosecution is you were so concerned about your finances and about this hearing that was coming up in regard to the boating accident where your son paul was on the boat, a young girl died when they were having a party one night because of -- according to the testimony, excess alcohol on board. you were so worried your finances were going to come up that you shot and killed your wife and son. they wanted to take away that motive. wasn't that concerned about it. there was equity on the homes. he could get loans on the homes. >> diane gallagher joins us from outside the courthouse in walterboro. another crucial moment was the questioning about the confrontation about stealing from the law firm and from those victims. his asking a supplier of the pills to which he was addicted to shoot him, to kill him.

just walk us through that portion of the testimony. >> reporter: so, victor, to a lot of people this is the suicide for hire insurance fraud scheme that happened in september of 2021 where alex murdaugh admittedly asked a friend, former client and he claims drug dealer of his, to shoot him in the head. he says to kill him so his son buster could get a $12 million life insurance policy. obviously it did not work and alex murdaugh -- we heard him on a recording from a rehabilitation center in georgia telling law enforcement about this plot earlier in the trial. this is the first time we've heard alex himself in the flesh talk about doing this. this was something the defense

had initially worked to keep out of this trial, arguing that it would prejudice the jury against him. the state has said that shows irrational behavior from alex murdaugh. they used that when they're talking about what they say he does when he's, in their words, backed against the wall or there is accountability coming for him. the way murdaugh described it it was a man who didn't want to live anymore. he felt there was going to be more information coming out about his financial crimes that jean was discussing there and he thought it would be humiliating for his only surviving son buster. we anticipate to hear more about this and the financial crimes during the cross-examining of the prosecution. i was speaking to one of the attorneys who represents one of alex's victims in those

financial crimes. i asked him about him testifying. he said he believe alex murdaugh opening himself up to the jury and talking about the crimes he's not been convicted of yet could be seen as him putting himself all on the line to prove he didn't do this and he's willing to put at risk he could spend the rest of his life in jail for financial crimes. again, it's been demonstrated he's lied several times. whether or not the jury will buy he's telling the truth is yet to be seen. >> dan, you were skeptical about the idea or decision about having alex testify. i'm curious your thoughts on the defense questioning him. they got him to admit he lied to police and authorities and he stole from clients and his law firm. is that to sort of diffuse what they expect to be an aggressive cross from prosecutors?

>> yes. you want to get the bad stuff out upfront. you want to get it out before the prosecutors get it out. look, his whole defense now is that the opiods made me do it. the opiods made me lie and lie about everything, about being at the kennels and now i'm changing my story. i'm telling you the truth. i've lied every day, but now i'm telling you the truth. doesn't make sense to me. shows he's a narcissist, a con man. he said he came down to the kennels in a golf cart. well, doesn't that explain why someone between the height of 5'2" and 5'4" allegedly shot the victims? murdaugh is over 6 feet. not if he's sitting in a golf cart. the defense brought up things the prosecution could have a field day with and they will. >> everybody, stand by. we're going to take a quick break. we're a few minutes into a

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mucinex dm. it's comeback season. we're expecting alex murdaugh to be back on the stand in minutes for the beginning of the cross examination from prosecutors after hours of questioning by his defense team there. let's bring back in our reporters and analysts, diane gallagher, jean casarez and dave aaronberg. dave, i want to pick up on a point you left off on about what he's admitting to. he's admitted to lying and cheating and stealing. he's also an attorney who knows how to perform before a jury. this is similar to the questions we had, in very different context, amber heard and johnny depp. these were performers.

they knew how to perform. how do you prepare as a defense attorney -- how do you make that person more likable to a jury when they have all this information about the defendant? >> victor, i think he's on the stand because he believes he can calm the jury. he thinks he's the smartest guy in every room. i believe he did this over the objections of his own lawyers. that's why he's up there crying about paw paw and bubba and the fruit tree. he thinks he's going to be a human being in front of this jury. in the evennd it's about the evidence and his lying. he's explained the fact he lied about being at the kennels, the murder scene, by saying the opiods made him paranoid. that's why he lied up until today. are you saying the opiods that made you so paranoid that you would lie about your son and wife's murder did not make you so paranoid that you would actually commit the murders? there's a lot of leaps that have

to be done here. i cannot wait for the cross examination. it will be must-see tv. >> jean, two or three questions asked by his defense attorneys about whether he stole money from his cleients or his firm - hold that thought. we're going back to the walterboro courtroom where the cross examination of alex murdaugh will begin. >> you may bring the jury. >> jean, it struck me they got it out of the way. he admitted to stealing and lying. the rest of the questions, the crux of the q&a had to do with his addiction. >> reporter: right. i think the prosecutor will go check by check, victim by

victim. these were victims that got hundreds of thousands of dollars and you stole it. you stole it. he's going to really focus in on that so show character right there. >> the addiction itself, the questions, the sympathy that he was trying to evoke from y jurors -- >> reporter: some jurors may relate to that because they have family and that addiction leads to lies and they say i know what he's talking about. i've seen it in my family and friends. they could have realization that maybe that did motivate him to do all the things, not the killing. >> diane, your expectation of what we'll see from the state as they start the cross examination? >> i would assume the state is going to come out right away talking about that video, talking about the fact that he

lied and focusing in, as they have done during the past month of testimony, on just how tight of a timeline the prosecution has created using cell phone data, using on star gps locating information, things like that and asking alex to go through second by second, minute by minute. >> all right, diane, we're going back to the courtroom. >> mr. murdaugh, let's start with a few things we can agree on. >> all right, sir. >> you agree that the most important part of your testimony here today is explaining your lie for a year and a half that you weren't down at those kennels at 8:44? would you agree with that? >> i think all my testimony is important. >> would you agree that's an important part of your testimony? >> sure. >> all right. would you also agree that the

first time that law enforcement officers that you talked to and the prosecution and here in open court ever heard you say that you lied about being in the kennels was today in this court? >> yes, i'm aware of that. >> you would agree with that? >> yes, sir. >> all right. all this time later this is the first time you've ever said that? >> yes, sir. >> you would agree with me that for years you were stealing money from clients? >> yes, sir, i agree with that. >> you were stealing from your law firm? >> yes, sir, i agree with that. >> that had been going on since at least 2010? >> i'm not sure the exact date, but it's been going on a long time. >> what's your best guess of the date? >> i'm not sure. i can't take dispute with 2010. i just don't know that for sure.

>> you're sure about a lot of things, but you don't know that, is that correct? >> i'm fine with that date, mr. waters. i don't have any reason to dispute it. i'm just not certain of it. >> all right. let's just keep on things that we may be able to agree about. let's talk first about your family's legacy here in the legal profession. okay? >> talk about anything you want to. >> good. tell me about your great grandfather. was he the solicitor for the very circuit we're in? >> yes, sir. >> what was his name? >> randolph murdaugh sr. >> what did he go by? do you know? >> randolph. >> randolph. did you ever get to know him or did he pass before -- >> no, sir. he got killed in 1940. >> how long was he solicitor? >> 20 years. >> 20 years? >> yes, sir.

>> then your grandfather, who was that? >> randolph murdaugh jr. >> what did he go by? >> buster. that's who buster is named after. >> was he solicitor? >> yes, sir, he was the solicitor for 46 years. from 1940 he took over when my great grand daddy got killed and he served until 1986. he was the longest serving prosecutor in the country. >> you knew him well, he was your grandfather, correct? >> i knew him extremely well and loved him dearly. >> idolized him, did you not? >> yes. >> he was the prosecutor for all that time as well, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> then your father, mr. randolph, he became solicitor not long after that, is that correct? >> when my grandfather retired because you weren't allowed to

be solicitor after age 72, my dad took over, filled his unexpired term and then he ran. >> he became the chief prosecutor for this area right here as well? >> yes, sir. >> how long was he solicitor? >> from 1986 until 2006. >> 2006? >> yes, sir. >> actually worked a case with him about a guy who killed a trooper. >> he was a fine, fine, fine man. >> yes, he was. >> and excellent lawyer. >> he was an excellent lawyer, right? >> yes, sir. >> that's a big part of your family legacy and your heritage that's so engrained around here, is that history of being the chief prosecutor and being part of the -- central part of the legal community, is that correct? would you agree with that? >> that my family's been a central part of the legal community, yes, sir, i agree.

>> not only just a central part of the legal community, but the chief prosecutor for this area since 1910 up until 2006? >> 1920 until 2006. 1910 is when my great grandfather started the law firm. >> the law firm? >> yes, sir. >> 1920 to 2006, correct? >> that is correct. >> an unbroken chain of being the chief prosecutor here, correct? >> that's correct. >> you went to law school, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> when did you graduate law school? >> 1994. >> did you ever become a full-time solicitor? >> no, sir. >> you went into private practice, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> then you went to the former law firm that no longer exists because of your activities, correct? >> i started in -- >> answer my question.

>> what was your question? >> you started first with lawson kuhn, correct? >> that's correct. >> then you went to the law firm that doesn't exist anymore because of your activities, is that correct? >> that is correct. >> as part of your practice you were a trial lawyer, correct? >> that is correct. >> successful trial lawyer? >> i don't know about your adjective. i was -- i guess so, yes, sir. >> did you make millions of dollars in legal fees? >> yes, sir. >> you won't tell this jury that's successful? >> if that's the criteria, yes, sir, i was successful. >> you won cases? >> i did. >> settled cases? >> sure, i settled cases. >> your former law partner said you were a successful lawyer?

>> i heard some of them say that, yes. >> i think you became president of the trial lawyers association, is that right? >> that's correct. >> when was that? >> i'm not sure the exact year, but it would have been in the 2015 range, 2014, 2015, 2016, somewhere in there. >> in that role you were kind of president of the association of people who do trial plaintiff's work, right? >> yes, sir. >> jury trials, correct? >> well, i mean -- >> that's part of it, right? >> yes, sir, that's part of it. >> sitting down, looking jurors in the eye and giving closing arguments, that iis that right? >> yes. >> what kind of cases did you normally do, generally what subject matter? >> i did all kinds of cases. i did cases that -- i mean, i handled some very big cases.

you know, i had a lot of cases where, you know, somebody -- their cable company was billing them $20 more than they should have been. i handled everything from that to the big cases and everything in between. >> the big cases, tell me about those. those were typically plaintiffs work, all plaintiffs work, correct, your big cases? >> yes. >> plaintiffs work is where -- they would be, for example, automobile or truck accidents, correct? was that some of it? >> every big case i ever had was an automobile -- no, sir, not all of them were automobile wrecks. >> were many of them? >> sure. >> if they -- let's say your plaintiff collided with a ups truck or tractor-trailer or something, you've had cases like that, correct? >> i have. >> they led to big recoveries,

correct? >> the ups case i handled? >> yes. >> yes, sir. >> as part of that, developing those types of cases, you were involved in investigating the facts of the case, correct? >> yes. >> all right. you were involved in gathering data from automobiles, correct? >> data like you presented in this courtroom this week? >> yeah. you never did that? >> i never had a case specifically where the type data that y'all presented in this case that i've used. i've had data from automobiles. >> from their computers? >> on star data, data from a black box, but -- >> on star and black box? >> more so the black box event

recorder. many times the event recorder will tell you things leading up to the wreck. i've been in numerous cases where those were involved. >> you had cases where cell phone evidence was relevant to your case? >> sure. >> people's call logs were relevant to your case? >> i have had those. >> cell tower location was relevant to your case? >> yes. >> computer evidence was relevant to your case? >> i'm sure i have, yes. >> when did you start with the law firm? >> august -- september of 1998. >> all right. you've been doing essentially that kind of work, more or less, up until september of 2021, correct? >> that's correct.

>> to the point where you rose to be the president of the trial lawyers association? >> i was the president of the trial lawyers association around 2015, as we discussed. >> can we agree on successful? >> by those criteria i was successful certainly. i mean, we talked about a lot of my flaws here today too. do i feel like i was successful? no, sir, not sitting here today i don't. if you want to use those terms, i don't have any problem with you saying at that time it looked like i was successful. >> do you think people viewed you as a successful lawyer? >> i'm sure there were a lot of people that did. >> do you think people viewed your family as very prominent? >> i believe there were a lot of people that did, yes, sir. >> did you think that a lot of people viewed you and your family as very prominent in the legal community here? >> i never thought of myself as prominent. >> i asked you if people viewed you that way. let me ask it again.

>> at the time did i think people viewed me that way? >> yeah, prior to everything happening. >> i don't think i thought people viewed me as prominent, no, sir. a big shot, no, sir, i don't think that. >> what about your family? >> my family thought we were big shots, no, sir. >> did people view your family as prominent in this community? >> prominent as in -- >> it's not a hard question. >> i'm just not sure -- you know, i think my family was very well thought of. i think my family was respected. i think my family helped a lot of people. >> i'm not challenging you on any of that. i'm getting you to agree with what seems to be a basic fact. would you agree with that? >> that my family helped a lot of people -- >> that was very prominent. >> if that's what you mean by that, yes, sir. >> and your family had a long association with law

enforcement? >> yes, sir. >> you had a long association with law enforcement? >> yes. by association i assume you're talking friendships? >> not only just friendships, but professional as well, correct? >> as a prosecutor? >> professional associations with law enforcement? >> as a prosecutor or with civil -- >> let's talk civil. did you have associations with civil practice? >> sure. there were a lot of highway patrolmen involved, local law enforcement involved, yeah, we dealt with a lot of law enforcement in the civil practice. >> then you also mentioned you were a prosecutor as well, correct? >> i was a volunteer assistant solicitor. >> did your -- did you or your family or law firm have events or parties or social affairs in

which the law enforcement community in this area was invited? >> i mean, sure. the law firm itself didn't really sponsor things like that, but there would be occasions where one of us in the law firm and certainly we all had a lot of friends in law enforcement and they were always invited. >> okay. it's a simple point. you had a lot of friends in law enforcement. your family and you had a long association with the law enforcement community in this circuit, is that correct? >> association being friendships and working relationships, absolutely. >> all right. let's talk about being a prosecutor. when did you become an assistant solicitor? >> i believe i became an assistant solicitor when i moved from buford to hampton. sometime around september 1998.

might have been a little after that, but sometime. >> did you get a badge when you became an assistant solicitor? >> at some point i did, yes, sir. >> who gave you that badge? >> my father. >> mr. randolph? >> yes, sir. >> over the years did you prosecute criminal cases much as what's going on here today? >> yes, sir, at times i did. >> all right. and -- >> i believe i prosecuted from 1998 until 2001. >> 2001? keep going. sorry. >> i mean 2021. from 1998 to 2021 i believe i was involved in five jury -- i believe there were five trials. >> five trials? >> that's the best i can remember. all with my dad. that was really the purpose of me being an assistant solicitor was getting to spend time with him, do things with him.

>> sure. five jury trials over all that time. you had a badge that entire time, is that correct? >> i had a badge for that time, yes, sir. >> you had two badges, right? >> i had one badge. when my dad became the solicitor, he had an assistant solicitor's badge. when he passed away, i had his badge and that was one -- at some point in time you were asking somebody about two badges. that was the other badge. >> i got you. you said you did five criminal jury trials as a prosecutor, correct? >> assisted in those or was doing them, yes, sir. i believe i was the lead lawyer in one of them. i helped my dad in the other four. >> still a part of preparing the case? >> yes, sir. >> still a part of gathering the evidence and putting it together at t