should be really simple. this is why i'm running for the united states senate. we need a new generation of leaders that thinks differently, works harder, and never forgets that we are public servants. >> here is a clear sign president biden gearing up for re-election, the first lady in an exclusive interview with cnn. >> and we support whatever he wants to do. if he's in we're there. if he wants to do something else, we're there, too. >> is there any chance at this point that he is not going to run? >> not in my book. >> you're all for it. >> i'm all for it, of course. >> we'll see you tomorrow. abby philip picks up our coverage right now. hello i'm abby philip in washington. thank you for joining us. we begin this hour with another

stare down between the u.s. and china and the outcome could have huge ramifications for russia's war in ukraine. u.s. officials are saying beijing is considering arming vladimir putin's forces with drones and ammunition and it's a move the biden administration thinks would prolong the war and up the death toll significantly. the cia says there is no evidence that china has yet sent any of this lethal equipment, but the white house promises major consequences if it does. >> beijing will have to make its own decisions about how it proceeds, whether it provides military assistance, but if it goes down that road it will come at real cost to china and i think china's leaders are weighing that as they make their decisions. >> now, this warning is coming just weeks after a suspected chinese spy balloon traversed the united states, leaving the relationship between these two super powers in tatters. cnn's phil mattingly is at the white house for us.

does the white house see this as their last best chance to get beijing to change course? do they believe all of this is imminent? >> they don't believe it is imminent but it is very clear the public posture the white house has taken over the last several days is very intentional and underscores a palpable concern about both what they're seeing in the intelligence they've gotten over the last several weeks and about what this may mean going forward. i think part of the issues that you've heard from u.s. officials is the belief that the final decision has not been made yet. as they have laid out some of this intelligence to allies, as they've made public some of their concerns, at this point it underscores the scale of the concern at stake here. they've also made very clear to the chinese the stakes that are at play. take a listen to how jake sullivan frames things. >> we're not just making direct. how things wouldd closed

doors. >> you know, the sub text here is that there is intent behind what is happening right now. the hope while they've certainly picked up intelligence that shows discussions and negotiations about potential price, what the potential weapons may be in terms of ammunition, in terms of drones, definitely some sense the decision may be coming in the near term that making this public, trying to almost brush back chinese government leadership will have an effect, at least a desired effect to hold them off at least for the moment. but there is no question. when you talk to u.s. officials their real concern is how much this could prolong a conflict very much at a stalemate right now but one in which they see russia is having severe issues when it comes to the amount, the stockpiles they have for ammunition, a gap china could most certainly fill if they decided to go that route. >> it hasekos of how the administration dealt with the russian invasion of ukraine in the first place, trying to very publicly warn china or even to the point of releasing some intelligence about all of this.

phil mattingly, thank you very much. there are even more complications for the washington/beijing relationship. a new classified report concludes covid-19 likely first leaked from a lab in china. that's the assessment of the department of energy, but, and this is critical, it is far from the final word on this question of how covid-19 originated. sources say it is designated. this assessment is designated as low confidence which adds to a divide that is continuing within the intelligence community about the pandemic's origins. this report says that the lab leak is the likely originator of this virus, but it is a low confidence conclusion. there have been other conclusions by other agencies within the government. can you walk us through where we are on all of this? >> reporter: yeah, abby. it is a bit confusing but what

we're learning that the fbi as well as the department of energy both assess the most likely theory or explanation for how this virus originated is that it leaked from a laboratory in china. that is low confidence on the part of the department energy. that means essentially they do not have enough intelligence or solid enough sourcing or all of the pieces of the puzzle necessary to make a more confident judgment that that is in fact how the virus originated. right now essentially what they are saying is based on their information they believe that it is simply the most likely scenario in their estimation. however, we should note that the department of energy of course did share their intelligence with the rest of the intel community. they've all reviewed it and the information that the department of energy has gleaned clearly did not change the minds of some of the bigger agencies like the cia for example, which remains undecided on how this virus originated, whether it started, for example, in a wet market in wuhan and came from an animal or

whether it did come from a lab. all of the intel agencies and the entire intel community has kind of coalesced around the theory, the two theories really it either started in the lab or emerged naturally. they are not necessarily discounting one way or another. ultimately this is still going, you know, some way into the division that exists within the ic about how this actually started and importantly the intel community is not necessarily going to be able to ever conclusively discover what happened here because they say china has not been fully cooperative in this situation and in order to get to the bottom of this truly the international community is going to need access to those sites, access to the data, and that is not something beijing has proven willing to provide at this moment. >> that still remains very much the central issue here. they don't have access to any information to give them more

clarity on the process. thank you for breaking all of that down. here to discuss the broader issue of the rising tensions with china is retired major general dana petard and "the washington post" columnist max boot. i want to start with you on this question of china potentially providing lethal aid to russia in this ukraine war. why would china do this? >> that's a great question. i mean, if china does this, it is essentially throwing in its lot with russia to a much greater extent than has been the case up until now. i am somewhat skeptical they're actually going to do this but, clearly, there is a debate occurring in beijing. what you're seeing now is that u.s. officials are using their classified intelligence for public messaging purposes much as they did early in the war to try to dissuade putin from invading. now they are declassifying some of their information to try to dissuade beijing from helping russia, which would be as they

note a real game changer that would allow russia to make up for a lot of its equipment losses and also be a very costly move for china. remember, china is the world's number one exporter. they are the largest trading nation in the world. their economy is very vulnerable to pressure from the u.s. and europe, which is why you see xi jinping trying to improve relations with the u.s. and europe in recent months and this would be a major blow to those hopes. i think there are good reasons for china to avoid doing more to enable the russian war effort. >> i want to talk more about that in a moment but general petard, to you, this is a crucial moment in this conflict where russia, both russia and ukraine are trying to make gains on a battle field that has been almost stagnant in a lot of ways. what would drones and ammunition from china do on the battle field? >> good afternoon, abby. it is a crucial moment right now

in this war that has lasted since 2014. we're marking the one-year anniversary of russia's attack on ukraine, specifically, but this war has been going on since 2014, so it is a war of attrition. the difference that lethal aid from china would make with russia, it would help russia as russia right now has depleted its ammunition in many ways. it needs drones. it needs more help logistically. russia could be losing this war. they perceive themselves as losing this war. that's why they need more assistance. but something that max just said, there is a reason behind china doing this. it's in china's best interests to prolong the war between russia and ukraine, which is supported by nato and the u.s. russia collapsing would not be in china's best interest.

but a weakened russia is in china's interest. a weakened russia that is dependent upon china. a war that is a war of attrition will deplete in some ways and we're already seeing that ammunition stocks in the west and u.s. and nato and china has no problems with that. but if russia collapses and loses this war it'll have an effect on china's ambitions and aggression against taiwan in the future. >> right. the prospect of chinese aggression vis-a-vis taiwan is really what a lot of people are looking at here. max, i want to come back to this question of what the u.s. is calling the real cost that could face china if they were to take this step. it strikes me, you were saying china doesn't really want to be for example sanctioned, but it also strikes me that the west, sanctioning china could have profound effects on the u.s.

economy, the european economy. what do you think those costs actually look like in practice? does the u.s. and europe really have the kind of back bone it would take to levy those against china at this moment? >> well, i think china has to be taken a little bit aback by the extent of the western sanctions on russia, which are still very much in place after a year, in which i've inflicted real damage on the russian economy. they haven't stopped putin from his invasion and they haven't led to an economic meltdown but they are inflicting real costs on russia. and i think china understands that they are much more engaged in the global economy than russia is. they are much more reliant on export markets than russia is. so i don't think they necessarily want to test this and find out what happens because, clearly, you know, this would lead to a worsening of the tensions which already exist and would come with economic cuts for both sides. remember, china right now is trying to recover from the covid

lockdown. they are -- their economy is in a very delicate state right now. there has been unrest, demonstrations against xi jinping's zero covid policy. i'm not sure this is the moment when xi is going to put all his chips on russia and risk the economic backlash that could come from that. >> general, before we go here, there is the china/russia relationship but also the russia/iran relationship, which is growing according to the cia director burns. how worried should the united states be about that? i mean, iran is already providing russia with drones. could this relationship go even further? >> yeah. i think they should be concerned, because iran is certainly providing drones, some level of intelligence. iranian support can occur with other kinds of equipment, even ammunition, that can be used by russian forces. so there should be a lot of

concern with iran helping russia along with china. >> all right. both of you, thank you very much for joining us. still to come here severe weather is hitting the middle of the country leaving a trail of destruction behind it. oklahoma saw some of its worst weather. we'll go there live. plus we are waiting for a ruling from a federal judge in a lawsuit that seeks to restrict access to a key abortion medication. the case has huge implications and we'll talk about it next. later this hour, new details about the death of a hong kong social influencer. hat dogs eat . as soon as we brought the farmer's dog in, her skin was better, she was more active. if i can invest inin her health and be proactive, i think it's worth it. visit betterforthem.com think he's postiting about all that ancient roman coinage? no. he's making real-time money moves with merrill. so no matter what the market's doing, he's ready. and that's... how you collect coins. your mon never stops working for you with merrill,

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destructive storms are wreaking havoc across the central plains overnight. at least seven tornadoes hitting oklahoma alone. this is drone footage that really tells the story. these homes are torn up, cars toppled. in parts of texas strong winds even whipped up a dust storm and

this tornado was caught on camera in southern illinois. nearly 200,000 homes and businesses are still without power across several states right now. another system is right behind it. nine western states are under a winter weather alert so we have full coverage with cnn's ed lavandera in norman, oklahoma for us and our meteorologist in the cnn weather center. let's start with you, ed. i am seeing those homes behind you, roofs all torn up. what are you seeing on the ground there? >> i think this really speaks volumes for what many residents here in norman are dealing with. the fortunate part about this storm system, as you mentioned seven confirmed tornadoes. many spun out in rural farm land not causing any real damage. this one in particular in the middle, in the middle of the darkness hit this residential neighborhood shredding roof

tops. that is what many people are dealing with. this was yesterday a long line of the fence line of all the back yard of all of these homes here. those fences destroyed and you see crews working very quickly today on many homes trying to patch up whatever holes they can before the next storm system rolls through here, whatever point that may be. that is kind of what people are trying to do is get their homes covered up as quickly as they can so they can get back inside. the number of people without power has been dropping dramatically throughout the day. several thousand people still left without power but that has been improving quite quickly throughout the day. the other really stunning thing is that there were no phi talts in this massive storm system that was causing hurricane strength level winds. in the texas panhandle there were wind gusts reported in the town of memphis, texas of 114 miles per hour, stuff we

experience when we report and cover hurricanes not just part of a storm system like this. throughout most of the night we were watching the forecasters here in the oklahoma area and many of the storms moving through had winds 70 to 80 miles per hour. it was quite a storm system that blew through the state over several hours last night. >> in all of that destruction, good news there were no fatalities. thank you. we are not out of the woods yet. it has been a rough couple days for the entire country. what is happening with the forecast? >> certainly the storms that move through norman and central oklahoma moved through at a cool 95 miles per hour. that is incredible. so much energy associated it spawned off nine tornadoes and the same storm system moving across the midwest and ohio river valley. this is the threat as it stands

right now. we have a level 2 of 5 from the storm prediction center. look at the big cities. indianapolis, columbus, cincinnati, even louisville on the outskirts of the stronger threat level today. you can see the low pressure kind of wrapping in on itself and there is a threat of tornadoes today but we can't forget the fact that these storms have produced 74-mile-per-hour wind gusts in excess in places like central oklahoma and texas. here is a look at the latest tornado watch in effect. this is just new coming to cnn weather center, a severe thunderstorm warning for the greater indianapolis metropolitan so that area needs to prepare for severe weather as we speak. there is a severe warning just to the north. you can see the threat level. a 5% chance of any one singular point here within a 20 mile radius of that point seeing a tornado through the course of the day today. flipping gears because the storm system is going to encounter a lot of cold air.

you haven't had much snow in new york city, only 0.5 so far, that is going to change today and into tuesday as 3 to 5 inches of snow is anticipated. heavier amounts across the catskills as well as the i-95 corridor, providence, rhode island could pick up 10 inches of snow from the same system and another storm starting to impact the western u.s., look at the blizzard warnings across the sierra nevada range starting to build up a very, very healthy snow pack as we enter into the end of the meteorlogical winter. >> some late winter weather for some parts of the country but not here where i am in washington. thank you very much. it is expected to be the biggest abortion ruling since the supreme court struck down roe vs. wade last year. how a federal judge in texas could block women all over the country from accessing a widely used abortion drug.

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- [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. so we could see another key abortion ruling as early as today as a federal judge could decide on a lawsuit that seeks to block access to a drug that is one of just two abortion pills utilized in the united states. those pills are in more than half of abortions and they are often prescribed to help women recover from miscarriages as well. cnn's jessica schneider is following all of this. this is pretty extraordinary not

only because it could be nationwide but because this is a drug that has been approved for more than 20 years. >> it's been a long time and it suddenly could get halted for its use. that is the expectation as we wait for this ruling at any point. both sides of this abortion debate, they're really prepping for what could be this big decision from one federal judge in texas with nationwide implications. this judge is asked to block access to medication abortion nationwide. and given that he is a trump appointed judge with a long history of antiabortion activism before he became a judge all sides do anticipate he will block the use of this drug. this abortion pill in question has been approved by the fda for more than 20 years and right now medication abortion does make up the majority of abortions nationwide. if the challengers to the drug win as expected it would mean that women in states where abortion has been virtually halted already wouldn't have this drug as another option. even in states where abortion is

still legal it would mean that women would not have this medication abortion option and that could create major delays in backlogs at abortion clinics that are still in existence. this really is the biggest court decision since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade in june. abortion rights advocates have been criticizing actually the group that brought this lawsuit because they are saying they specifically chose this particular federal court in amarillo, texas because it does just have this one federal judge. he was very vocal against abortion before he became a judge and now of course could issue this ruling with nationwide impact at any moment. of course, though, this forum shopping does happen where they pick a particular court or judge. it happens on both sides here but now with this ruling upcoming it is really even more, has gotten more criticism and traction than ever before. >> and these nationwide

injunctions as well also very significant here. we'll keep close tabs on that case. thank you. millions of americans with student debt could see a big chunk of it wiped out on a case that goes before the supreme court tomorrow. it could mean up to $20,000 off of a student loan bill for some borrowers and some 26 million people have already applied for that program before it was initially struck down. let's bring in cnn's supreme court analyst to dive into this a little bit. this is a really significant case for a lot of reasons but one of the big reasons and perhaps the first one the court has to deal with is whether the states even have the right to sue in the first place. tell us about that. >> it is very consequential for borrowers but also for how the supreme court handles challenges to executive branch actions. and the first thing is if you're going to sue and get into court and have your case heard on the merits you have to show a direct injury from the action that you're challenging and in this

case six states and two individuals who didn't qualify for the full forgiveness have sued and the states say they're -- they have a couple different claims on the standing issue for why they should be able to bring the case that some of their general taxes to the states for loan discharges and consolidations would be effective and the most specific allegation is that a missouri higher education loan authority which actually services loans and receives fees from borrowers that that would be affected. so that is how states are claiming they have standing. the biden administration counters that in terms of the general taxing issues they are too speculative and indirect and for the missouri education loan authority what biden lawyers will argue tomorrow in court is that that is not an arm of the state. that mez -- that missouri entity

could not be considered one of the states. any losses it suffers cannot be attributable to the states. >> but the second big issue here especially for these borrowers seeking this relief, the biden administration did this in the first place because congress would not. they are trying to go around a legislative process here but a ruling that goes against the biden administration could have really sweeping effects and it is not just about student loans but a lot of other things. why is that? >> that is because it tests when an executive branch agency here, the secretary of education, can actually act based on a statute that isn't precisely saying that this action can be taken but that is enabling in some ways. in this case it is a 2003 statute that said that in emergencies the secretary of education can take action to

waive or modify loans. and here the challengers are saying the government has gone too far affecting a half trillion of money due to the education department but the biden administration says that that heroes act as it was called from 2003 precisely allows this kind of action in an emergency as covid-19 was and how covid-19's economic fallout continues. and what the biden administration says is, look. in the past the court has certainly brought down the hammer on executive branch regulations, major regulations. but here it is saying those precedents shouldn't really apply because this isn't a regulation, just pure forgiveness of these loans and that it was authorized by the heroes act that envisions all sorts of emergencies that could affect borrowers of every age and in this case more than 40

million affected. >> so many millions of people. and this is such an extraordinary time. i feel like we're always talking about these really significant cases coming before the court. and they're always significant, but in this case these are things that affect people's pocketbooks today. thank you very much. we'll be following that one closely as well. straight ahead for us the biden administration's response to the toxic train disaster in eastern ohio. why republicans say they are going to investigate it. we're live on capitol hill, next. it's an invigorating rush... ...zappingng millions of germs in seconds. for that one-of-a-kind whoa... ...which leaves you feeling..... ahhhhhhh listerine. feel the whwhoa! with thehe freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. mana your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try itor free at freestylelibre.us [music plays] if your instinct is to help.

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launch investigations and possibly public hearings into how the biden administration handled that toxic train disaster in ohio. joining me now is cnn's jessica dean over on capitol hill and jessica i'll start with you. this comes as majority leader chuck schumer says he wants to bring the ceo of norfolk southern over to the hill to testify. what can you tell us about the prospect of that? >> right. a source telling cnn that earlier today, abby. it remains unclear if alan shaw would testify. we will to see how that plays out. it is worth noting though with the current situation in the senate and how it split up between democrats and republicans that democrats do hold subpoena power. it is not clear it would even come to that but it is worth noting and it is important context in situations like these. it is also worth noting over on the house side that is where several committees are looking to investigate this train derailment and the fall out from all of this. house republicans very eager to

probe the biden administration's what they think is a very flawed response to this train derailment and the fallout that came afterward. we know there are several committees looking in to really holding hearings and questioning authorities on this as well. the transportation infrastructure committee, the energy and commerce committee, and the oversight commite. it is expected they'll be looking to people like the secretary of transportation pete buttigieg, epa administrator, wanting to hear testimony from them as well. we know the chairs of those committees have already put out several letters to the administration asking for information to try to start to put together all of this. but, abby, one thing is for sure. we can expect to hear much more out of capitol hill. >> i think that is definitely a sure bet. over to you, this is also a critical moment in which the waste from this toxic train derailment is being taken out of east palestine. what's happening with that today? >> well, it is now going to two different facilities in ohio, itself. this is after norfolk southern

tried to ship it to facilities in texas and michigan, both the states, the political set in those two states objected to this. they didn't have any knowledge it was coming into their states so epa saw this plan of norfolk southern's on friday, stopped those shipments to both texas and michigan and now have identified two approved sites in ohio to deal with both the liquid waste and the solid waste from this de railment. there is hundreds of thousands of gallons of liquid waste that need to be dealt with and tons of solid waste that needs to be dealt with as well. this is going to be a long term effort though. they're digging wells around the most contaminated part, testing the air, the water. both the municipal and private wells. so far no signs of contamination outside the immediate area but the wells they are digging around the contaminated site will tell officials probably over the next months if not years to come whether that ground water is seeping and

moving into other parts of the ecosystem. >> all right. thank you both very much for your reporting. up next for us, a murder mystery in hong kong. what authorities are saying about the death of this high profile social media influencer when we return. helping them achieve financial freedom.m. we're proud t to serve people everywhere, in investing for the retirement they envision. from thehe plains to the coast, we h help americans invest for their future. and help communities thrive. here is cvs health. where they're working to eliminate the pink tax to ensure we don't pay more than men for the same thing because women'razors are just razors. here, althier happens together. now adt professionally installs

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a horrifying story out of

hong kong now. four members of the same family are charged with the gruesome murder and dismemberment of a model and social media influencer. i want to warn you, you might find some of the descriptions in this next story disturbing. >> reporter: a fashion model and mother brutally murdered in hong kong in a case that is sending shock waves through the usually safe city. 28-year-old abby choi was a well known social media influencer with more than 100,000 followers on instagram who just weeks ago appeared on the digital cover of a luxury magazine. she was reported missing on wednesday. on friday police say pieces of her body were found in a refrigerator in the northern district of hong kong. they also found a meat slicer and electric saw and later police discovered a head, ribs, and hair in a soup pot. >> it was a skull with hair.

okay? as i said, unfortunately, there is a hole on the right side rear on the skull, so the pathologist believes that should be the fatal attack on the victim. >> reporter: police arrested abby choi's ex-husband on suspicion of murder on saturday. police said they caught him at a pier in the city's lanntow island. alex kwong appeared here at the court on monday along with his father and brother all accused of murder. kwong's mother also appeared in court accused of obstructing the case. all four were denied bail. over the weekend, authorities launched a massive search operation to track down the rest of the model's remains. they deployed more than 100 police officers including divers to search a cemetery and nearby

catch water. they're still looking for several body parts. a gruesome murder of this young woman in the spotlight who leaves behind four children including two from the ex-husband who is now in custody. cnn, hong kong. >> our thanks for that. right now in south carolina a major development in the alex murdaugh double murder trial. the judge will let the jury visit the property there where murdaugh's wife and son were murdered. joining me now is cnn's randi kaye outside of that courthouse in walterboro, south carolina and also criminal trial lawyer sarah izari. the prosecution actually opposed this, which was fascinating. why is that? >> reporter: well, the state was against it, abby, because they argued to the judge the property has changed. these murders occurred back in june of 2021 and they feel the

property changed and it wouldn't be a fair resemblance of the crime scene for the jury, a fair picture of what really happened there, particularly the trees between the kennels where the murders took place and the main house the state arth have grown taller and thicker. this is key because the defense put on a witness who said he tested the sound of the gunfire at the home and that alex murdaugh if he was indeed napping in the main house as he said, he would not have been able to hear the gunfire from the shotgun or the rifle that killed maggie and paul while he was in >> and so the defense argued he didn't do his test until january of 2023, this year. so that is not a fair representation of the crime scene at the time. that same argument about why the jury should not go and see the crime scene now. >> that's interesting. sara, from the defense perspective, what are they trying to prove here? how would this help them to send the jury to go see this crime

scene? >> yeah, abbie. so it is always great for a jury to take this field trip to the crime scene because they can actually see, they can measure distance n. this case, it is not just about the acoustics. they can really see how this two shooter theory may have worked out, how long it makes to go from the golf cart from the house to the kennels and back. the phone service, i mean, that is key, right? the time of death that this prosecution has been proceeding on for seven weeks is based on phone data and a lack of activity on a phone. part of the argument being that in certain parts of the property, you don't get cell service. they could turn their phones on and see if that's really true. it is really important and it is a dire know, but i think they will be given a chance to see and look for themselves. one of the things i want to add about today's testimony of the pathologist, the time of death,

i mean, you and i could technically be dead right now because we're not using our phone. it is the most preposterous thing i have ever heard. today is the first day we're hearing science after eight weeks of trial. the defense is bringing the science, and they're, in fact, introducing into evidence the autopsy report that the state pathologist did that obviously was not good for them. it's major today. >> that's a really interesting point. randy, can you weigh in on that. after the dramatic testimony from alex murdaugh himself last week, the defense didn't rest. they called more witnesses. wh response to the testimony from the forensic pathologist? >> well, the pathologist certainly countered the prosecutor's pathologist. she said that both were shot within three feet and the pathologist today came on and said, well, paul murdaugh, it

was a contact wound. the gun was up against his head. it was that force that literally blew his brain out of his skull. so that was very different than what the state pathologist said. then there was a forensic scientist that came on. this was really impactful because the defense floated this theory a while ago about maybe two shooters because there were two weapons used, a rifle and a shotgun. and this forensic scientist came on and said he believes there were two shooters. he doesn't think that one person, man or woman, could have done this. here is what he said in court. >> the individual who shot first with the shotgun minimally was stunned, probably blood and material in his eyes and may have been injured and would have taken some degree of time to recover. and lastly, i think, why would one shooter bring two long rifles, two long weapons to the event? you can't handle and shoot two

of them. you either have to put one down, use one and then swap out and grab the other one or i suppose you off one on a sling. but that's quite awkward and it's slipping around and banging around in an environment we know is very, very tight. >> the defense also scored some points with that forensic scientist because he said the shooter would have been covered in blood, whoever shot paul murdaugh. we know state's witnesses have told the court that he did not have any bloods on his hands or physical blood on him. >> yeah. sara, on that point, i mean, the lack of evidence specifically tieing him to these murders, you know, physical evidence, anything on him remains one of the biggest problems with the state's case. what do you make of the developments from the testimony today? >> well, i think, look, it is obvious that this was not something that alex murdaugh

could have cleaned up in 15 minutes, okay? because this type of needs a cleanup of the cleanup. there was gore. there was brain matter. there was biological matter that inevitably would have been somewhere on him and then on the route back to the house, somewhere in the house. there is nothing. even setting aside the destruction of the t-shirt and the confirm toiation tests they failed to disclose to the jury saying no human blood, they have no science. instead, they focused on the lying narrative. you know, the big kennel lie, the fraud, the theft. for seven weeks, it is interesting, we're starting to see this come together. it is the defense bringing in the science that the state is missing. >> that's a really interesting and important point as this case, it seems, quickly approaches the end here. randy kay and sara, thank you very much. and thank you for joining us

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