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garlique healthy blood pressure formula helps maintain healthy blood pressure with a custom blend of ingredients. i'm taking charge, with garlique. good evening everyone. i'm alisyn camerota, welcome to cnn tonight. new revelations from that 1.6 billion dollar dominion lawsuit against fox. we'll tell you what rupert murdoch said under of about multiple fox hosts and the lies they were peddling about the 2020 election. cnn's still digging through the court documents tonight. hundreds of pages worth, so we'll have more in a moment. plus, the racist rant from the creator of the dilbert cartoon. >> so if nearly half of all blocks are not okay with white people according to this pool, not according to me, according to this poll, that's a hate

group. the best advice i would give to white people is to get the away from black people. >> well, now newspapers across the country are dropping the dilbert cartoon. the creator plans to be canceled, but maybe that's just a free market or work. we'll discuss. also, does a bear do cocaine in the woods? well, this one does. why movie audiences are hooked on cocaine bare. okay, but we start with the new revelations about fox and rupert murdoch. here with me in the studio l.a. times columnist ellzey grandson, seen in the alanis and elie honig, cnn media reporter oliver darcy and mark mckinnon, executive producer of the circus. gentlemen, great to have you all here. let's dive into what rupert murdoch said under oath because it's fascinating. all over, shall we do a dramatic reading between the attorney and rupert murdoch. >> as long as your. murdaugh >> all the murdaugh.

but can anyone else to an australian accent here? >> you've got the gear. >> all right it may have to call you in as an understudy. okay phil. this is what it says. the newly-released excerpt from all of these court documents from the 1.6 billion dollar dominion voting systems lawsuit. >> right so i emit diminutive lawyer. you are aware now that fox did more than host these guests and give them a platform? correct >> i think he showed me some material in support of that. >> fact, you are now aware that fox endorsed this notion of a stolen election? >> well, not fox not fox, maybe lou dobbs, maybe maria as commentators stop timeout. they are fox. they are fox hollow's. when he says not fox, that's a lie, they are fox hosts. >> they make up fox. and he controls, he has the ability as a miss later on to

control the programming of fox. so if he doesn't like what maria or lou or sean hannity are saying, he has the ability to say don't do the same network. >> keep going, i'm supposed to ditch my accent, because of a general accent for anything, that's just what i is. >> the meryl streep is sickening boots right now keep go. >> we went through fox host, maria, fox host jim -- i >> think. so >> fox business host, lou dobbs. >> a lot. >> fox host sean hannity. >> a bit. all were in the document correct? >> yes they. we're >> about fox in reading the narrative of a stolen direction correct? >> know some of our commentators were endorsing it. >> but they're endorsed manifesto and election? >> yes, they endorsed. >> okay that's the point he's drawing a distinction, you guys are commentators, i'm a wall, you're also a reporter. i am a host, there is a difference in responsibility. as commentators, you can offer

your opinions but you can't make things up or we are supposed to call you want to. as hosts, we cannot make up lies out of full cloth. that's not what you do at a real network. that's what his hosts were all doing. >> i think it's important to point this out. at a news network, what we do seen and what other news organizations do, they try to find out what the truth is and then try to relay that to their audiences. and of course is not always perfect. sometimes there are mistakes, but that's what they do. in this case, we are seeing that fox knew the truth, knew that the election wasn't stolen, it wasn't rigged against trump. they knew this behind the scenes. the highest people ranking people, rupert murdoch, as well as foxy-y and hosts like shawn hannity, laura ingraham, tucker carlson on articles. but they had that truth from their viewers, and worse they fed them the nonsense that they were trashing behind the scenes. that's not what a news network does. >> mark? >> last elie he was the expert

on first amendment law, this certainly helps does meet that threshold doesn't it, when you are knowingly lying >> it does. >> which he admits here in the deposition. >> it is the legal standard that we need to be looking at. it's called actual malice. it needs to say something false, but to do it either knowing that it is false or with reckless indifference to the truth or falsity of it. here i think the text established the knowing falls of it. and the 70th just read. indoors. here's the defense that fox is gonna make. we are gonna say we were just presenting newsworthy coverage. we were showing what donald trump is saying, what people around him were saying. that undoubtedly is newsworthy. we were transmitting, that we were broadcasting that. but here you have rupert murdoch saying, we endorse that, which is exactly what dominion is gonna say the plaintiffs. he was gonna say, law wasn't them, it was my four key anchors it wasn't us. that's not gonna fly for the reasons you just said. the notion of endorsing is crucial. >> so how much trouble are they?

and >> i think they are in big trouble, potentially looting a verdict here. i think these texts pretty clearly establish actual molus malice. i don't melville establish 1.6 billion dollars. the country a company that is being valued at a fraction of 1.6 billion dollars, but i like their odds of winning a verdict here. >> besides, right now that is their value, but there is no way for them to say within a shadow of a doubt that their value there is damage today or in 2020 could've impacted the revenue what would be in 2032. so i could see yet today, this is your value, that because of these flies you've been deval going forward, and how do you quantify that? >> i think that's exactly right. the argument will be exactly killed our businesses. so we've relied on local and state officials to hire us to do our business. now you take the current value -- >> he stretched it right? so look at the red states. the red states may might not

necessarily want to have dominion be part of their election cycle going forward. are those that maybe trump leaning. so whatever those number states or elections are, they may have lost that simply because of the lies about the 2020 election. >> and doing business with venezuela. [laughter] >> i want to read one more excerpt because i think this one is particularly disturbing. during the trump campaign, rupert provided trump's son-in-law and senior advisor jared kushner with confidential information about biden's ads along with the bait strategy. but on election night, rupert would not help with the or arizona call as rupert said my friend jared kushner called me saying this is terrible. i could hear donald trump's voice in the background shouting. and he said the numbers in the numbers. he said you seriously deny, any claim election fraud? he doubted it from the

beginning? yes. we thought everything was on the up and up, i think that was shown when we showed arizona that is the point. however, he shared debate strategy with the trump campaign and confidential information about biden's ads? >> i think there's two ways to look at what we're looking at. what is a legal case, so whether dominion has any legal action against fox and whether they went. but outside of that, this exposes fox news for what it is. in this case we're seeing now that murdaugh was seemingly willing to help jared kushner and the trump campaign have an edge over biden. we saw in the previous filing, where he said do whatever you can to help in the georgia special election. i'm assuming that doesn't mean helped emma crowds. so it really has exposed fox for this gop propaganda arm that it has been for some time but we've never seen the evidence like this. we've never seen it from the horses mouth. >> not fair and not balance clearly now an interesting lee in 2000, and that presidential

campaign, someone sent our debate information to the bush campaign they went to prison. >> i remember that story, that feels like justice. that feels right. the fact that he was sharing debate strategy, joe biden would've done. >> this was another system, not rupert murdoch. >> here -- >> it's horrible journalistically, and trying to figure out what the crime is. there's gotta be more of that story. it's not necessarily a crime. it's horrible journalistic practice. it goes to the intent, perhaps there was a lie to an fbi investigator that would give it a criminal hook. how this becomes relevant and a defamation lawsuit is, here's their motive labor, they're not trying to play down the middle, this is the argument the dominion is gonna make. >> i hate to be the person to bring this up, but it's not as if there hasn't been other examples of exactly we are

talking about with other networks but also, with donna brazil, and the questions that she gave to hillary clinton. >> but then you do lose your job. >> you do lose your job, what happens to the viewers? they start thinking, you are just like them. so when i think about this story in particular and i think about these quotes and i go okay, or brian williams lied about the bodies floating down the street in new york lines, and he still got a show. we've seen other stories of credible journalist and caught an ally. so i think we're at a part in our industry where we have to come to somebody, whoever your spiritual guidance, but we need to get back to the fighting what opinion is and making sure those lines are blurred anymore. >> i hear what you're saying ellzey, and i understand that the trust to medias law law. but those lies didn't lead to an insurrection. the level of these lies and how pervasive they were a much they jindal up the audience was worth than what brian williams

did. >> i agree 100%. i'm just saying in terms of viewership, how do you tell that to a viewer that his lies were worse than the others. >> all right i get that. thank you very much. next the creator of the workplace conduct gilbert has been let go from several newspapers after a racist rant that he posted on youtube. he knew what he was doing. so why is he the victim? then add the whoa! of listerine to your routine. new science shows it gets in between teeth to destroy 5x more plaque above the gumline thanan floss. for a cleaner, healthier mouth. listerine. feel the whoa! to finally lose 80 pounds anand keep it off with golo is amazing. i've been maintaining. the weight is gone anit's never coming back. with golo, i've not only kept off the weigh but i'm happier, i'm healthie and i have new lease on life. golos the only thing that will let you lose weight and keep it off. who loses 138 pounds in nine months? i did!

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of course you know the long

time cartoon dilbert. in a row for more than 30 years. well now newspapers around the country are dropping dilbert after his creator scott adams won races rent in which he said, device i would get to white people is to get the away from black people and quote. for the male elsie turned -- former professional tennis player patrick mcenroe and others. shall i play more what he said? shall i play more? all right here we go. here's another clip from his wrath. >> the best advice i would give to white people is to get the away from black people. just get the f away. wherever you have to go, just get away, there is no fixing

this. this can't be fixed. this can't be fixed. you just have to escape. >> well, jessica i barely know where to begin. there is a lot to say there. i just can't believe he would go on a public platform and say something like this, especially when you have so much to lose. you know you've had this popular comic for 30 years. he must know saying what you were saying is incredibly racist, there's no other way to spin it. i just can't believe you have this career that you care about and you go about and say this. it must be what you really feel. we will get to the fall or in a moment, but before we get to the fallout, i want to talk about what he was responding to. which are these cockamamie poll questions, i don't know what unearth, what reputable pull on earth would ask these questions. they are. first question. do you agree or disagree with the statement, is it okay to be why?

what does that even mean? basically the respondents just over half agreed and 21% say they don't know, because they don't know, how do you answer that question? it's so ripe for misinterpretation. >> there's two ways to interpret the. is it okay for white people to be white? but if you're a black person, is it okay for a culture and the white. it's ridiculous and in the history of the saying it's from a white supremacist catfish. >> this is a raspy simple. we don't use raspy sin at cnn, because the methodology doesn't meet pole standard polling standards. the question itself is cockamamie. >> now you know why cnn doesn't -ism. >> -- we've always known. and they're baiting. people >> completely. that's another layer to this whole issue. the first layer is, i actually have to admit, i followed scott adams on twitter, and i would watch him do these coffee

chats. i remember literally watching him a couple of days ago and saying, did he just say that? what exactly could he possibly be thinking? >> i'd you ever heard him say objectional things like that? >> i knew that he had a conservative flattened if things you talk about. i try to follow different people of all backgrounds and see what's out there. but when i heard that it was just bizarre. and in the aftermath of it, he said well now i'm being canceled. that's my punishment. i said, dude, because of the first amendment. a set, well you've got the right to say whatever you want, but sort of magazines and newspapers and us have the right to then react what you said. >> and if they don't think that he represents what they want their audience to buy, and they don't need to run it. you can still get the delbert cartoon a tolbert dot com, so he's not being canceled. >> i don't believe canceling

exists to begin with. i believe in accountability, and i believe people using the phrase cancel culture to hide accountability. but i actually can't think of anyone who's been counseled particular, being canceled bike black people. because i think if we were canceling things, gilbert would be on the list. [laughter] so it's just sort of you're giving us a lot of credit of the power we don't possess. i think a lot of things in congress would be different, i think reparations would've happened if we had that much power. instead, it's gilbert that we're all? after i don't think. so >> his here is his response, scott adams the creative gilbert. and obvious question for people who cancel me is today disagree with my point? so far i have not seen it. i've only seen disagreement with my use of hyperbole. that's how far he is into his own echo chamber he is. it doesn't see people disagreeing with his own point. here it is. here it is scott.

all that to say the companies making a decision about who they want a platform and include racist language before they decide, there's only a few amount of people were gonna put in the washington post, we're gonna put in the l.a. times, and we want those people to represent our values to a certain extent. that's not canceling anybody, that's deciding we have a limited amount of space and where do you use it in a way that's appropriate and respectful, there's nothing wrong with. that >> u.s. today ceo was quite clear about it. here's what he said. he said the decision was easy. >> it was frankly and easy decision. we found the remarks hateful, and hurtful, and just crossed the line. we believe in free speech, we believe in creating a place for different points of view, but there is a line that gets crossed where things become

racism. and that's not an area that we choose to traffic or participate in. >> does that gentlemen look like or sound like he's -- >> racism is free speech. if you say something racist, that still falls under the first amendment, you're still covered under free speech. i just think that a lot of people who have this mindset if you will are used to the fact that having some one respond to the racism is also free speech and that the repercussions of your remarks fall in a free. speech >> just amazing that he can live in this place. it's been obviously successful guy, talk about happening what's happening in the corporate world and corporate office. he's been hugely successful and then being so braiden to think that no one disagrees with what he is saying or he hasn't heard

him. i guess he's not watching cnn. [laughter] >> i don't even understand what his interaction with the real world is if he thinks the people don't disagree with him. >> i don't know what his interaction is but i will say this about the recent history of this country. what he has said has played out. that's the white fight the white flight of this country. they got away from the inner cities. so what he is saying from an error this country that has documented our history. it's a simple fact that he is saying as if he is still living in that history as opposed to where we are today. >> friends, thank you very much. now to this. florida governor ron desantis getting ready to launch his new book. what he really wants readers to know about the real him. we'll discuss next.

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what maybe a soft launch in a bid for the white house. governor ron desantis is putting out a new book entitled the courage to be free, florida's blueprint for america's new bible. and it focuses on his culture war battles against what he calls wokeness and woke corporations. some of the big parties biggest donors are cutting him seven figure checks ahead of a potential 2024 run. we're back with ellzey grounds, patrick and mark mckinnon. let's do another reading. and just give news my. this is about the woke battles that he prides himself on. this is from governor desantis's new book. the battles that would be fought in florida, from defeating the biomedical security medical state, i think he means covid. the stifling woke corporations to fighting indoctrination's in schools strike at the heart of what it means to be a floridian

and an american. mark, this is his calling card, this is what is staking is brand on. >> under-percent, and it's all about grievance that a lot of his covid related, that is really launched him. he's gone to the right of donald trump on covid and he's attacking donald trump on covid for being too permissive about the vaccines and the shutting down of everything. that's created an opening for ron desantis. listen, it says a lot that this guy's turned a swing state reliably red now. he won miami by 20 points. hillary clinton won it by 20 points. that so much of a swing it is. there's a reason why donald trump and ron desantis and then distant -- >> so if he can do it in florida, can he do it in the u.s.? is florida a test case for across the u.s., they would respond to the same thing? or is a florida unique in some way? >> i think the republican base is responding well beyond florida and i think he's got a blueprint is gonna roll out. i think he's got potentially a

lot of tunupa tension in the republican primaries. the question is, has he tapped too far down that will quell to run a new general election and be successful? >> i just don't understand how you sell trump-ism without trump? this is a less charismatic guy who's not as funny and not as entertaining, and he's gonna somehow convince the trumpian base that they should love him instead of a guy who created trumpism? >> they like the fighter aspect. but also what some people used to say when trump was president, i object to him, i object to his style, i don't like all the coarseness, but i like all the policies. so if you feel that way -- >> i think that's exactly where he is coming from. i think alison you are spot on. i've had so many people come up to me as love trump's policies love some of the things he was trying to do an immigration, cutting taxes, but if we could just get rid of the personality

of trump. now you've got a guy in desantis who in my view is even smarter. he certainly more calculating. trump is throwing a lot of stuff out there that gets him into trouble, gets him a lot of people who like him because of that. because to me, he feels authentic. desantis feels to me very calculating and extremely smart which i feel also extremely scary. but he's jeb bush without the charisma. >> i'm so glad you brought up jeb bush because i was very interested to hear today that jeb bush, while it wasn't today might've air today on fox special. jab seems to be a fan. so curious? >> is this rhonda sentences opportunity to run for higher? office >> i think it is. he's been a really effective governor. he's young, i think we're on the verge of a generational change in our politics. i kind of hope so. think it's more time for a forward leaning, future oriented conversation in our politics as well. >> lots of headlines, calling

out an endorsement. i don't know if that's an endorsement plea seems to be a fan. >> i don't care if it's an in the door's man, because the -- tummy looks more like a person tried to latch on to some of because he's been jettisoned from his 40. his son's been jettison from the party, the families basically out of the republican party, so it looks like a play, don't forget about us and try to bring us in. as far as desantis is, we all have a charisma. it's who you are charismatic to that matters. i believe that desantis is charismatic enough to trump voters that it will work. you don't have to fully beat trump, we just have to be enough to attract trump voters. i think he does that. >> my question is, i don't know, trump will not go quietly, so we don't have trump going, all vote first desantis sees got my endorsement, i can't possibly win. trump will go after desantis.

>> it was trump that got jeb bush kicked out of the republican party, so he's gonna do try to do the same thing with desantis. >> what do you think of jeb bush being a fan of desantis. i think he knows sees the writing on the wall, he knows that trump can't win, and you think that desantis can't. trump is the human hindenburg floating over the republican party. and they all know, people have half a brain in the republican party know that trump is a loser. not only lost in the presidential elect, but he lost in the house and the senate for the first time in 100 years. >> let's talk about another candidate, that's joe biden. there's an interesting piece in the atlantic, and the headline is a case for the primary challenge for joe biden. we must be some free thinking democratic was to get in the race. and he? thoughts >> i love that i,

think it's exactly right, i think would be good for the party, if they could be good for biden have somebody at their challenging him. you want some spring training at the very least. >> mary and williamson isn't already. >> sure. [laughter] >> i don't want to necessarily say the president biden shouldn't run for reelection, but i do think that it is important and remember some of the lessons is particularly from the democratic party, of individuals recording positions of power for an extended period of time and what that could mean going forward. >> but you're allowed to have to? terms >> you are allowed to have two terms, and i'm not suggesting you should take advantage of that. he does have the record to do it. my question is, how do you considering to call yourself the part of the future, when you continue to represent the past? >> that's was goodwin as he pelosi handed over the baton to new generation of leader. biden said during the campaign he intended to be a transitional leader. >> it'll be nice to see a bunch

up but laetitia's do that hand over the baton. i don't see a lot of people don't. >> but the voters chose biden. they like him. right? a lot of people in the planet class didn't like him. a lot of pieces were written about him. and then in the midterms, biden really ran the table on the way that none of us thought he would. >> here's what people have to say. about that his party overperformed in the midterms. he seems to be running on fine, feisty state of the union there, muscular trip to ukrainian -- he seems quite eager for more. the difference in biden's case of course caused directly to the second reason for his particular predicament. it begins with an eight. >> his age. >> right. >> that's a real conversation to be having. i honestly believe that joe biden has done plenty to substantiate's desire to run for reelection, but it's not

about whether you should, it's about what does the party need and what does the country. i think personally if he were not to run for reelection, he would go out with chairs. why? look at what he is accomplished. >> the problem is who would take his place? >> it's not a problem. >> who can win? >> a lot of people can beat rhonda santas that biden can't. >> i think also that biden versus trump, they have a four year age difference. i think if that's the way it plays again, >> that's a big bet on it being trump. >> i don't person versus person, i wandered ideas versus ideas. i think that's what the midterms actually said, the people want to talk about ideas, legislation. how are you gonna help me. >> listen mark's point is that not that he shouldn't run, is that other people should run. >> tell us about the circus while we have you.

is it focusing on desantis? >> it is, and on the republican party desantis and cpac which is the annual convention more trump got his initial attention back in 2010, 11, 12. it became sort of launching pad for donald trump and others specifically. but the interesting is the thing is that desantis and pence are not going. so does cepac mean what it used to mean? and what kind of reception will donald trump get now at cepac. it's the disneyland for republicans, and it will be very powerful. lot of people go on but it's a great place to go. but with desantis's book coming out and cepac, this is sort of the start for the young republican party. >> all right, thank you all for those perspectives. okay, what's your first reaction these days when somebody calls you on the phone?

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it's a rude call someone on the phone? that is the question that we tackle in the washington post, so what does our panel think? it had not even occurred to me that this was possible but i have noticed that for the past, maybe five years, i am annoyed when somebody calls me on the phone. so i thought it was just me and i don't know why i was no way. but just turns out that something had shifted in our culture and now we are annoyed when the phone rings. >> this happened to me, it was

like 15 years ago when i was covering wimbledon for espn, which we do every year. i was communicating with some british people in london and, do not call me. i mean they were so far ahead of us, everything was taxed. i was like wow, this is weird, and now call my wife's are, there's no second chance he's gonna answer the phones. the best thing to do when you talk to somebody is when are you free -- >> by text. >> what time are you, available when the time, i'm free between two and 2:45, let's talk then. >> chances are they will still won't answer. i totally agree. >> that's a good advocate. >> do you like people calling on the? phone >> no. but there's a very specific reason, i get so few phone calls there are only two people who ever call me, my son and -- my son calls me everyone's 3 to 4 days, so stand calls me a lot. so i'm already irritated because it is a spam called began with.

>> the government is doing something right because now it comes up as a spam call. they've got that down. >> do people call? you >> i mean, i think it is sort of old-fashioned that people are texting each other to ask them if they can call, it is like something out of the 17th century like we're asking a, we're writing notes to ask if we can call. >> the i'm glad to get phone call i'm always delighted to hear from them. >> i have three. but they're teenagers, so almost legit. >> i'm excited when my kids, call their into different categories. when my teenagers column delighted. also, anybody who i knew before texting was a thing is grandfathered in. so any of my high school friends can call, me that is fine. we have a history of calling each other. but after texting was a, thing i am like how dare you. >> i text and ask if i can send a letter. that is real old school.

>> or a telegraph. it's great. are you annoyed when people call you? >> kind of. i just find it so more efficient to text and i cannot remember the last time i called. >> what do number by the way? >> definitely with teenagers, i have three teenage daughters. texting is a way to go. you want them to get them to pay attention? they'll see its dad -- >> this way at least i know, somebody want to call want to talk. >> we're all in agreement. meanwhile, it is all the rage at the box office. cocaine bear pulling in $23 million over the weekend. but wait till you see how the story all started. >

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e bear, needs a more? it made 23 million is opening weekend, that is right. americans spent $23 million to watch a movie about a bear on cocaine. and won a 175-pound black bear does a whole lot of cocaine, we'll things go exactly the way that you would think. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> apex predator. high on cocaine. out of its mind. [laughter] >> it turns out that this whole crazy story is loosely based on a true story. this happened in the 80s, of

course when a black bear died of an overdose of cocaine. so we went digging in the news archives and found this real 1985 report from our affiliate wxia. >> the 200 bound bear fell victim to one of three duffel bags full of cocaine dropped in north georgia and knoxville tennessee three months ago when parachutist and reputed drug smuggler and lutheran plunge to his death. his parachute failed open. he had 77 pounds of cocaine strapped on it. agents found a second bag a short time later. they ran across the dead bear last week while looking for the third bag, what they believed to be the last of the thornton batch. >> they are probably got an initial rush and perhaps became disoriented and somewhat confused because of the sensation. cocaine acts fairly rapidly in the central nervous system and

in large quantities depresses the heart and it is quite likely then that the bear had difficulty breathing and difficulty maintaining his heart rate and essentially died slowly. >> the medical examiner said the bear had been dead for at least six weeks, gbi agents recovered none of the cocaine. they said it could've been blown away by the wind or simply dissolved. one thing is for sure, the bear did not eat 75 pounds of the stuff. patricia hunt, 11 line news. >> that is an old school local news, right there. that was awesome. >> he looks just like john oakes. >> there is a history of the white dust voting in the air, -- >> i think it's called snow. >> it was something else. there are so many things in this country that are happening that i look at and it upsets you a little bit as someone who's loves this country. and then i see this, they come

up with this idea. >> god bless america. unbelievable. >> what is the magic of cocaine there? why is everybody running out to the theaters to see it? >> it's stupid. i saw them egg in theaters, twice. giant sharks and prehistoric, chasing around people, boats, the whole nine yards. it was dame. >> i think that's part of the power is that it is so ridiculous. it is like a really good bad be movie, cocaine and a bear let's go. >> molly, you are an intellectual heavyweight. you can't wait to see this? >> i'm taking my kids this weekend. there is a place for stupid in american culture. >> it happens to be a very wide lane and i think cocaine bear is right in there. >> think of all this equals. >> i would be interested, if i thought it were just a dark comedy, but it is actually a slasher film which makes it

less appealing to me. their moments where you are screaming and -- >> the bear is the slasher. >> whether they're on a cocaine or not. >> it is a nature film. >> it's getting very good reviews and elizabeth banks, is terrific. . she is the director and she says that what sold the project to her was the name alone. thank you all very much,. the debate over the origins of coronavirus is back in the spotlight after -- that yes it could have leaked from the chinese lab. the intelligence community is still split about what actually happened, so we are going to break down all of the latest for you.

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a new assessment from the u.s. energy department is reviving the debate over the origins of the covid-19 pandemic. the department of energy says the virus likely came from a lab leak in wuhan china. that is where the first cases of the virus appeared. but sources tell cnn that it is a low confidence assessment and the benign already view within the intelligence community. four other u.s. intel agencies, they believe the outbreak started after the virus jumped from animal to humans. >> i want to bring in cnn chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta. sanjay, great to see, this let's talk about where we are tonight. there are two leading theories, basically the theory that the

origins of the coronavirus either spread from animals to humans in the wild or it leaked from a lab in wuhan. what type of evidence would prove it one way or the other? >> will you know, i should point out that the labs that we are talking about here, alison, they have studied coronaviruses for a long time. that that is not new information. reporters have been covering this know that, and one of the lead researchers in the lab there in wuhan is she zhengli, known as the bat lady. she is known is that because she has been studying bats really since the days of sars, for some 20 years. so that is not new information. i think we need to know is where the coronavirus is being studied in the lab similar, identical, or related to the virus that caused covid. you want to look at the actual viruses and do genetic sequencing of those viruses. another thing that you could do, alison, there were blood samples that were taken from